*I typed this once already....* http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/mad.gif

Anyway, back to what I was getting at. I was pondering this the other day and thought I'd put it to you guys. Think about this:

We all know that Lucy and Desi were a very successful team both in front of the camera and behind it (in terms of Desilu anyway.) However, what would their careers have been like had Too Many Girls never existed and Lucy and Desi never met? Would they be anywhere near as successful on their own? Keep in mind that their biggest accomplishment, I Love Lucy would not exist (in that format anyway.)

So what do you think?

*and I'm typing my password in correctly this time* http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Hey Dawsongirl-
I haven't been on this site for a whileand just logged on to read your question. Good one and I think the answer is: Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz may never have met, hence no "I Love Lucy", which means they would not have been TV legends. She probably would have made a lot of 'B' movies and his acting career would have gone nowhere and he would have ended up a band leader throughout his career.

Anyway, that's my take.

I agree with Terry. Neither would've been very popular if Desi and Lucy hadn't met or did I Love Lucy. If that had happened, I bet Lucy would just be known as the B movie actress..

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Hottest Men alive:
Dale Midkiff
Anthony Starke
Tim McGraw
Jonathan Crombie

Lumpy: Did you go out for anything, Dud?

Dudley: Well, I went out for football, but I got my finger stepped on, so my mother made me quit.

Eddie: Well listen-- I went out for basketball and I got my hair pulled, and my mother made ME quit.

Dudley: It's not that I was afraid of getting hurt or anything; it's just that-- well, it's kind o' hard to play the flute with a busted finger.

[Eddie and Lumpy suppress laughter]

Dale Midkiff is my man! :)

Class of 2002! :)

Their lives wouldn't be the only ones affected, either, we wouldn't have such classics as Star Trek, The Andy Griffith Show, and other wonderful shows. (TAGS may have made it with a different production company, but ST had a HARD, HARD time getting anyone to stand behind it.)

Originally posted by PPatters:
Their lives wouldn't be the only ones affected, either, we wouldn't have such classics as Star Trek, The Andy Griffith Show, and other wonderful shows. (TAGS may have made it with a different production company, but ST had a HARD, HARD time getting anyone to stand behind it.)

"The Andy Griffith Show" was a spinoff of "The Danny Thomas Show" (AKA "Make Room for Daddy"). Desi was responsible for getting Thomas's series on the air, which was done for Desilu Productions. Without "I Love Lucy," there would have been no Desilu Productions, and therefore no "Danny Thomas Show" and, consequently, no "Andy Griffth Show," no "Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C." and no "Mayberry R.F.D."

I have to agree with the rest of you - I don't think either of them would have been nearly as successful in their careers had they never met.

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Lucy: "Ever since we said 'I do' there are so many things we don't."

Lucy : "That must be my dear friend Ethel. I'll open the door, Fred."
Fred : "Open it?! I was going to lock it!"

Lucy : "Gee, did you hear that, honey? It's going to be called "Bitter Grapes." I wonder what part they want me for."
Fred : "Oh, you're probably going to be one of the bunch."

Originally posted by NCVARick:
"The Andy Griffith Show" was a spinoff of "The Danny Thomas Show" (AKA "Make Room for Daddy"). Desi was responsible for getting Thomas's series on the air, which was done for Desilu Productions. Without "I Love Lucy," there would have been no Desilu Productions, and therefore no "Danny Thomas Show" and, consequently, no "Andy Griffth Show," no "Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C." and no "Mayberry R.F.D."

Don't forget that there would be no "The Lucy Show", and "Here's Lucy" either as well as the other Lucy shows and "The Dick Van Dyke Show". And if it wasn't for "The Dick Van Dyke Show" there would have probably been no "The Mary Tyler Moore Show", therefore no "Rhoda", no "Phyllis", and no "Lou Grant". And if it wasn't for "Rhoda" there would have probably been no "Hogan Family" (AKA Valerie/Valerie's Family). Wait there's more . . . if it wasn't for "Here's Lucy" there would probably been no "The Lucie Arnaz Show", no "Sons & Daughters" and no "Automan". WOW, what a chain reaction this is causing.


[This message has been edited by LucyFan (edited 11-04-2001).]

Gosh, I never thought about how that would have affected other shows, but that's an excellent point. Some shows never would have had a studio, some never would have had a prayer. It's amazing what these two have done with television.

I did consider that maybe Lucy would have made My Favorite Husband with Richard Denning for TV, but when they (CBS I think) actually brought that show to TV, it wasn't the most successful. So no Queen of Comedy title for Lucy.

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Get your kicks on Route 66!

Happy Birthday to Me!

BTW, welcome back Terry! I wondered if you disappeared.

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Get your kicks on Route 66!

Happy Birthday to Me!

I am so glad Lucy and Desi met then. I never would've thought about all those shows not being made if it hadn't been for Desilu. I can't even imagine a world without Andy Griffith and Gomer Pyle.

Actually, as I mentioned, "The Danny Thomas Show" was probably strong enough to be presented to another production company. But, a show like "Star Trek" that was STRUGGLING for ANYONE to stand behind it most definitely wouldn't have made it without a Desilu.

I agree with everyone. Lucy and Desi may have had some success in show biz with out the other. But definitely not the success they had with each other. I know Lucie and Desi Jr. and their children are happier than anyone that Lucy and Desi got together!

[This message has been edited by MsLulu (edited 11-04-2001).]

Originally posted by PPatters:
Actually, as I mentioned, "The Danny Thomas Show" was probably strong enough to be presented to another production company. But, a show like "Star Trek" that was STRUGGLING for ANYONE to stand behind it most definitely wouldn't have made it without a Desilu.

Actually, with Danny Thomas, I don't think it was a case of him going out looking for someone to produce his show; rather, Desi Arnaz was interested in Thomas and in having a show created for him, so he went after Thomas. Were it not for Desi, there would have been no "Make Room for Daddy" at all.

Originally posted by LucyFan:
Don't forget that there would be no "The Lucy Show", and "Here's Lucy" either as well as the other Lucy shows and "The Dick Van Dyke Show". And if it wasn't for "The Dick Van Dyke Show" there would have probably been no "The Mary Tyler Moore Show", therefore no "Rhoda", no "Phyllis", and no "Lou Grant".

Well, in that case, we have to look beyond those shows as well. Thanks to "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," where he really made his mark, James L. Brooks has gone on to write such films as "As Good as it Gets," and to create such sitcoms as "Taxi" and "The Simpsons" and to direct others such as "Will and Grace." Also, some of the MTM writing team, taking the acclaim and what they learned from writing that show, went on to create "Cheers," which led to "Frasier." Bob Carroll, Jr. and Madelyn Pugh Davis took their "I Love Lucy" writing credentials and went on to write and create "The Lucy Show" and "The Mothers-in-Law," , to write many episodes of "Here's Lucy," and then to produce "Alice" and "Private Benjamin" in the '70s and '80s. "I Love Lucy" writers Bob Schiller and Bob Weiskopf went on to write for "The Lucy Show," then later "All in the Family" and "Maude." Ultimately, they became the producers of "Maude," which established Bea Arthur as a television star and introduced Rue McClanahan. Those two, of course, teamed up with MTM alum Betty White to do "The Golden Girls," which led to a spinoff series, "Empty Nest." Desilu Productions, in 1967, became Paramount Television. The newly named company, which had been created by Lucy and Desi, has gone on to create numerous television series, such as "Happy Days" and its spinoff series, "Laverne & Shirley," "Mork and Mindy," and "Joanie Loves Chachi," all produced by former "Lucy Show" writer Garry Marshall. Several Desilu productions have gone on to spawn movie spinoffs in the '80s, '90s and beyond: "The Untouchables," the various "Star Trek" movies and TV series, the '80s "Mission: Impossible" TV series and more recent Tom Cruise "Mission: Impossible" movie. We could go on and on. When you get right down to it, you would have to look long and hard to find anything on television that hasn't in some way been directly impacted by Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz and "I Love Lucy."

Desilu did NOT become Paramount, it was bought by Paramount.

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you all said but...both Desi and Lucy were extremely driven hardworking people and never took their success for granted. Lucy was more than a B- movie actress before the show hit. They might have both found a lot of success in show business without having coupled together.

Originally posted by dawsongirl:
*I typed this once already....* http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/mad.gif
*and I'm typing my password in correctly this time* http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Dawsongirl,
If you mistype your password just hit your backbutton. What you typed will have remained and you will only have to correct your password.

Originally posted by PPatters:
Desilu did NOT become Paramount, it was bought by Paramount.

Desilu did become Paramount Television. Desilu was not bought by Paramount, but was bought by Gulf & Western Industries, which owned Paramount Pictures. G&W renamed Desilu Productions Paramount Television.

Originally posted by kittflynn:
Dawsongirl,
If you mistype your password just hit your backbutton. What you typed will have remained and you will only have to correct your password.

Actually, everytime I do that, what I wrote disappears. Maybe it's my browser.

Originally posted by dawsongirl:
Actually, everytime I do that, what I wrote disappears. Maybe it's my browser.

Just for assurance, why don't you try this: When you write a long message, before you hit the "submit reply" button, copy what you wrote as if you're going to cut and paste it. Then, when you hit "submit reply," if you find you typed the wrong password and go back and discover what you wrote has been erased, you'll still have it in your memory. So all you'll have to do is paste it to the now empty "your reply" box, and try to submit your message again. (This suggestion comes from personal experience similar to yours.)

Oh, great advice!!!! Thanks! Maybe now I won't have to yell at my computer so much. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/lol.gif

Originally posted by PPatters:
Desilu did NOT become Paramount, it was bought by Paramount.

Wrong! Desilu was bought by Gulf and Western, not by Paramount. The whole story is in the book Desilu.

I didn't think about other shows, either. That is an excellent point. Think of all of the actors who never would have had their starts in television if it hadn't been for Desilu. Andy Griffith could have ended up selling plastics or vacuum cleaners. Just kidding.

Keen insight.

Oh, and thanks, dawsongirl. I'm still here but I'm sorry to say that I was greatly affected by the September 11th attacks and just didn't have much enthusiasm. I'm still struggling {I had a friend who was killed}.

But I can't wait for tomorrow's ILL special. I've read mixed reviews so it remains to be seen how it turns out.

Originally posted by Terry Ross:
Oh, and thanks, dawsongirl. I'm still here but I'm sorry to say that I was greatly affected by the September 11th attacks and just didn't have much enthusiasm. I'm still struggling {I had a friend who was killed}.

But I can't wait for tomorrow's ILL special. I've read mixed reviews so it remains to be seen how it turns out.

Sorry to hear that. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/frown.gif

Hopefully one day we'll all be able to get close to normal again. But in the meantime, the board's here to distract us. And with weirdos like me hanging around, well... http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/lol.gif

Originally posted by Terry Ross:
Andy Griffith could have ended up selling plastics or vacuum cleaners. Just kidding.


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/lol.gif

Or how about Ritz Crackers? I keep seeing at the end of Family Feud AG selling crackers. "Mmm, good cracker," he says.

I am going to say one thing about the ILL special last week. I was somewhat disappointed that so much of it evolved around clips from the show. I would have preferred more of a history; the casting, more behind-the-scenes, etc. But the ratings were strong and I know personally that CBS senior management was extremely happy with the viewing performance of the show.

Rearding that other 'heated discussion' about taking "bad" episodes out of a show and then airing it. I've been in audience research for many years. That concept would never be considered because who can define a "bad" episode. If we asked everyone on this board to name their least favorite ILL epsiode {for example}, we'd all come up with something different. Therefore, removing "bad" episodes {purely subjective} would have virtually no viewing effect to any show. I just had to get that in because,well, you hit on my specific occupation. That's it.

I was going to ask you about the ratings for the special, but certain things have got me sidetracked recently. Good to hear they're good!

To expand upon a previous statement, it did very well. It was the tenth highest-rated show of the week, and is regarded as the show that helped CBS win in the ratings that week. It scored an 11.8/18 share, or 12,488,000 viewers.

Originally posted by PPatters:
Desilu did NOT become Paramount, it was bought by Paramount.

WRONG! Desilu was bought by Gulf & Western. It even says that in "The Lucy Book".

I wonder how long it would have taken for the rerun to be invented? After all, Desi's decision to film ILL, and use the 3-camera technique, allowed the rerun to be possible. Would the kinescope technique have continued into the 1960s, maybe even the '70s? Something to ponder. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif

Actually, CBS wins the week, often, on the strength of such shows as C.S.I., Survivor, Jag, and Judging. CBS has performed as well as the Lucy special on a Sunday night in the very recent past so the special did not clinch a ratings win for them. Trust me. This is my livlihood.

Actually, NBC has won the week several times. That week, however, is credited as being won by CBS because of the strenght of that Sunday Night I Love Lucy 50th Anniversary Special.

I'm not going to get into a long conversation about this but on the week that Lucy aired, there were a bunch of other CBS programs that performed better - - such as Everybody Loves Raymond, Country Music Awards, Survivor, CSI, etc. Lucy did not give CBS the weekly win. mathematically, CBS would have won the week without Lucy. I have the Nielsen report in my hand right now. Nuff said.

Uhhh.. The Country Music Awards didn't perform better (ranked 16 to the I Love Lucy anniversary's 10). Also, Survivor performed equally as well as the anniversary special did (same rating, though Survivor had 55,000 less viewers). That week, the top ten shows included NBC's ER (ranked 1), Friends (ranked 2), West Wing (ranked 5), Will & Grace (one episode ranking a tie for 5, the other ranking 7), and Law and Order (ranking 8). ABC's NFL Monday Night Football ranked 10. The shows in the top ten from CBS were CSI ranked third, Everybody Loves Raymond ranked fourth, and the I Love Lucy 50th Anniversary Special and Survivor: Africa tying for tenth. In the top ten ratings (though, there were a total of eleven shows), NBC had 6, ABC had 1, and CBS had 4.

While some of the shows you cited certainly did help CBS in the ratings, some even performed more poorly than the ILL Anniversary special, unlike what you said. The I Love Lucy 50th Anniversary Special certainly was an important part in ensuring CBS's ranking that week.

My source for all of this is Zap2it.com.

[This message has been edited by PPatters (edited 11-19-2001).]

I just read in Entertainment Weekly that the CMA Awards got 17.8 million viewers, ranking #11, and the ILL special got 17.6, tying for #12 with Monday Night Football.

Originally posted by Terry Ross:
Rearding that other 'heated discussion' about taking "bad" episodes out of a show and then airing it. I've been in audience research for many years. That concept would never be considered because who can define a "bad" episode. If we asked everyone on this board to name their least favorite ILL epsiode {for example}, we'd all come up with something different. Therefore, removing "bad" episodes {purely subjective} would have virtually no viewing effect to any show. I just had to get that in because,well, you hit on my specific occupation. That's it.

No offense, but this sounds like the very perspective that has gotten the big networks into a jam in the last couple decades. They seem so afraid to think outside the box and take bold steps. As a result, upstart broadcasters who have nothing to lose will take bigger chances than the big networks do, often with bigger payoffs. As with anything, the greater the risk, the bigger the possible payoff. Look at the success of broadcasting outlets like HBO, which has so many successful, highly innovative shows ("Sex in the City," "The Sopranos," to name a couple). These shows are unlike anything you see on CBS, NBC or ABC. The big networks continue to put out the same bland programming, like all these sitcoms that seem to have basically the same characters and same formulas, and are virtually indistinguishable from one another.

Anyway, my basic point: try something bold and new that's never been done before and see what happens. Actually, the concept isn't all that different from what networks already do: before they put almost any series on the air, they test the pilots with focus groups to see how they react. If the overall impression is good, it's a winner; if not, it's a reject. Further, the idea of casting out the bad and keeping the good isn't really all that new, even for Lucy.

Back in the '80s, Viacom put together a greatly edited version of "The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour." They took it upon themselves to pick what they thought were the best, strongest 9 episodes of the 13-episode series, and from those nine, edit out roughly one-third of mostly the weakest scenes, retaining about 40 minutes of each 60 minute episode. They aired it as a series of specials called "We Love Lucy."

That's not so different from what I suggested doing with "The Lucy Show." I don't know how familiar you are with that series, but the constant refrain I've heard over the years from people who watch this show is "I like 'The Lucy Show,' but I hate the California episodes." My proposal is simple: based on this common reaction, retain all the Danfield format episodes, but see if there are any California format episodes that are worth saving. Actually, since it seems the majority of those episodes are disliked, my suggestion is less about picking out the bad episodes than selecting the best. There are a variety of ways that could be done. For example, do a poll similar to what was done for the recent "I Love Lucy" 50th anniversary special. Find out what viewers' favorite episodes are from the California years. Select the top 20 or so vote-getters and go from there. See what happens. I think it's worth a try. It's certainly better than doing nothing and never knowing whether the show might have been saved.

Well, that's my suggestion. People are free to agree or disagree. But nobody can convince me it's an impossibility to do it, or to at least try.

Well, Access Hollywood (a reputable television show) had announced that the special ranked #10, the same ranking that Zap2It.com gave. I, personally, am going to go by the rating I saw on Access Hollywood and Zap2it.com, because I know both of them are very reputable sources for accurate information.

[This message has been edited by PPatters (edited 11-20-2001).]

dawsongirl, you are absolutely correct. Networks, advertisers, and the press judge the viewing success of a show on total viewers. Which is why the"CMAs" surpassed the Lucy special. I should have added that in my comment. Oh, and my source is Nielsen Media Research directly.

Regarding "removing the bad episodes" and the comment about the broadcast networks' mentality getting them into their current situation, well, I work for a broadcast network, and I can assure you that the current plight of the broadcast networks boils down to two things: program development and the profileration of cable on DBS and digital cable.

dawsongirl, you are absolutely correct. Networks, advertisers, and the press judge the viewing success of a show on total viewers. Which is why the "CMAs" surpassed the Lucy special. I should have added that in my comment. Oh, and my source is Nielsen Media Research directly {I receive daily rankings}.

Regarding "removing the bad episodes" and the comment about the broadcast networks' current situation, well, I work for a broadcast network, and I can assure you that the current plight of the broadcast networks boils down to two things: program development and the proliferation of cable on DBS and digital cable.

There sure does seem to be a lot of fighting going on here on this website! Does it REALLY matter where Lucy came in on the ratings? I mean, we all know that she's the best that ever was and ever will be!
And to answer the MAIN question on this topic: Yes, I do think that Lucille Ball would have been as successful as she was even if she hadn't married Desi. She had the comedic genius and timing to put her at the top! She didn't need Desi to do My Favorite Husband so when they decided to take it to television she wanted Desi but I do think she would have made it big with Richard Denning too. Maybe not AS big but yes.....she would have still been LUCY!

Originally posted by onlyonelucy:
There sure does seem to be a lot of fighting going on here on this website! Does it REALLY matter where Lucy came in on the ratings? I mean, we all know that she's the best that ever was and ever will be!
And to answer the MAIN question on this topic: Yes, I do think that Lucille Ball would have been as successful as she was even if she hadn't married Desi. She had the comedic genius and timing to put her at the top! She didn't need Desi to do My Favorite Husband so when they decided to take it to television she wanted Desi but I do think she would have made it big with Richard Denning too. Maybe not AS big but yes.....she would have still been LUCY!

I think what made "I Love Lucy" the classic it is is the collaborative effort of all those involved. I believe Lucy's career could have gone on for some time had Desi not been involved, but I do not believe it could have ever risen to the same level it did as a result of "I Love Lucy."

A lot of the Lucy characterization was developed through foresight of "I Love Lucy" producer Jess Oppenheimer, who had been Lucy's head writer on "My Favorite Husband." Actually, he was not involved in "My Favorite Husband" at first, but was brought on a couple months into production to help give it life as it was struggling. Oppenheimer, who had worked as a writer for Fanny Brice, redeveloped Lucy's Liz Cooper character, bringing in certain elements of Brice's Baby Snooks character. He also gave Lucille Ball certain guidance and inspiration which helped her become a more visual performer. If you have ever seen any of Lucille Ball's comedy movies made after she began her association with Jess Oppenheimer in 1948, such as "The Fuller Brush Girl" and "Miss Grant Takes Richmond," and compare them to those made prior to 1948, you will see a notable difference. Her comedic techniques really didn't develop prior to her association with Oppenheimer.

As for Desi Arnaz, he was able to give Lucille Ball the encouragement and belief in herself that no one else could. If she was ever hesitant about being able to perform a certain bit, Desi would coax her and help her overcome any anxiety she had. He was also, according to the "I Love Lucy" writers, a genius at being able to develop comedy material on the written page. He could pick up a script and immediately identify weak spots in it. They have said Desi Arnaz was vital in tightening up and perfecting "I Love Lucy" scripts. This is an ability Lucy did not have; she did not have the instant instincts Desi had for knowing whether something on the written page would be funny.

Desi also provided the perfect foil for Lucy. So much of what made Lucy so funny on "I Love Lucy" was the way Ricky reacted to her. Those eyes bugging out, the slapping of his hand against the side of his face, putting on those temper tantrums, his Spanish tirades -- all those reactions to Lucy's antics made her comedy that much funnier. He was the perfect straight man for her. Gale Gordon also did fine in the capacity of reactor to Lucy's antics, but it was never as great as what Desi brought to that role. And frankly, I think if Richard Denning had been brought on to play Lucy's husband, he would have been quite dull by comparison. He did not have the flair that Desi Arnaz had. Imagine for yourself Ward Cleaver (from "Leave It to Beaver") as Lucy's husband -- a nice guy, but nevertheless someone lacking the charisma, excitement, charm and musical abilities of Desi Arnaz. If you can imagine that, then you can pretty much imagine how Richard Denning would have been playing Lucy's husband. Boring.

To understand the importance of all the contributions of all the major parties involved in "I Love Lucy," consider "The Lucy Show." There are definite markers in that series that can show you just how important each contributor was from the "I Love Lucy" days. Desi was involved with "The Lucy Show" during its first season as its executive producer. He was responsible for bringing on board to that series "I Love Lucy" writers Bob Carroll, Jr., Madelyn Pugh Davis, Bob Schiller and Bob Weiskopf; and co-star Vivian Vance. As with "I Love Lucy," he also gave his great input in script development.

During the time Desi was involved with the show, it was a superior production. The episodes were consistently hilarious. However, by the second season, when he was no longer around and scripts were no longer undergoing his insightful review and scrutiny, the show began to suffer a bit. It was still a very funny show, but not at the same stellar level it was a year before when it had Desi around to tighten and refine the scripts.

By the beginning of the third season, writers Madelyn Davis nd Bob Carroll, Jr. had departed from the show, and shortly thereafter, so did Bob Schiller and Bob Weiskopf. At this point, the Lucy character, under new writers who did not understand her, began to change from the shrewd, crafty character viewers had come to love into a ditzy Gracie Allen type character. And the scripts began to lose the element of logic and believability that had long been associated with them.

By the fourth season, the last big blow came with the departure of Vivian Vance from the series. Nobody that followed could duplicate the chemistry she had performing with Lucille Ball. Certainly Lucille Ball sometimes made along the way some very funny episodes, but none ever measured up to the greatness that had been associated with "I Love Lucy." I think it all goes to show that, while Lucy could do very *good* work on her own if given the right material, the cummulative contributions of people like Desi Arnaz, Vivian Vance, Jess Oppenheimer and the other "I Love Lucy" writers allowed Lucille Ball to do *great* work. She didn't need them to do good work, but she did need them to do great work. And by the same token, while all those other parties went on to do other projects with varying degrees of success, none ever accomplished on their own what they had during the "I Love Lucy" days. They all fed off one another, and together, each individually did their greatest work. It was definitely a team effort. And they all made Lucy great.

Originally posted by Terry Ross:
Regarding "removing the bad episodes" and the comment about the broadcast networks' current situation, well, I work for a broadcast network, and I can assure you that the current plight of the broadcast networks boils down to two things: program development and the proliferation of cable on DBS and digital cable.

Unlike "I Love Lucy," which is owned by CBS, "The Lucy Show" is owned by Paramount. Any idea what's on their plate?

NCVARick, that was very insightful. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm going to have to look at my 1 TLS episode from season 1 and compare it to others.

------------------
Get your kicks on Route 66!

Congratulations to the 2001 Winston Cup Champion- Jeff Gordon!

Originally posted by dawsongirl:
NCVARick, that was very insightful. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm going to have to look at my 1 TLS episode from season 1 and compare it to others.

Thanks, Dawsongirl. One thing to also keep in mind is that, even after Desi was no longer actively involved in Lucy's career, she still continued calling him for advice, right up until 1986 when she started "Life with Lucy" and he was dying of cancer. The woman *depended* on Desi and on his advice. When Desi died, her spirit pretty much died as well.

In spite of Lucille Ball would say publicly, she didn't have a whole lot of confidence in Gary Morton's business and showbiz instincts. In fact, she focused a lot of her anger at him (and herself) for the "Life with Lucy" debacle. She had had no interest in doing that show, according to Lee Tannen's book, but was basically cornered into doing it by Gary Morton.

As for Desi, it's been said by a number of people that, over the course of the many years after their divorce, they continued to speak on the phone at least once a week. At the Lucy Convention this year, Bob and Madelyn recounted how, in those later years, if they were in a room with Desi when Lucy called, they could always tell it was her on the phone just by the tone of his voice.

Back to "The Lucy Show," I want to mention one episode from second season: "Lucy Conducts the Symphony." That's one post-Desi piece where I think Lucille Ball was absolutely brilliant. Note how she performs the final full two-thirds of that episode without uttering a single word, and is hilarious every step of the way. It makes one wonder whether, had she been born a few decades earlier, she would have succeeded as a silent film comedian. She was funny on radio when she couldn't be seen. She was hilarious on television when she could be both seen and heard. And here, she was hilarious when she could be seen but not heard. In spite of how much others contributed towards her greatness -- and they most certainly did -- she was still an amazing performer in her own right. Simply brilliant.

Originally posted by NCVARick:
Thanks, Dawsongirl. One thing to also keep in mind is that, even after Desi was no longer actively involved in Lucy's career, she still continued calling him for advice, right up until 1986 when she started "Life with Lucy" and he was dying of cancer. The woman *depended* on Desi and on his advice. When Desi died, her spirit pretty much died as well.

In spite of Lucille Ball would say publicly, she didn't have a whole lot of confidence in Gary Morton's business and showbiz instincts. In fact, she focused a lot of her anger at him (and herself) for the "Life with Lucy" debacle. She had had no interest in doing that show, according to Lee Tannen's book, but was basically cornered into doing it by Gary Morton.

As for Desi, it's been said by a number of people that, over the course of the many years after their divorce, they continued to speak on the phone at least once a week. At the Lucy Convention this year, Bob and Madelyn recounted how, in those later years, if they were in a room with Desi when Lucy called, they could always tell it was her on the phone just by the tone of his voice.

Back to "The Lucy Show," I want to mention one episode from second season: "Lucy Conducts the Symphony." That's one post-Desi piece where I think Lucille Ball was absolutely brilliant. Note how she performs the final full two-thirds of that episode without uttering a single word, and is hilarious every step of the way. It makes one wonder whether, had she been born a few decades earlier, she would have succeeded as a silent film comedian. She was funny on radio when she couldn't be seen. She was hilarious on television when she could be both seen and heard. And here, she was hilarious when she could be seen but not heard. In spite of how much others contributed towards her greatness -- and they most certainly did -- she was still an amazing performer in her own right. Simply brilliant.

*sigh* Lucy and Desi really loved each other. Most divorced couples grow to hate each other, but not Lucy and Desi. That is so romantic they kept loving each other after the divorce. It is tragic they divorced, but it is still so heavenly that they still depended on each other. I wished I could gind a guy like Desi. Sorry guys, I'm in one of my Anne Shirley moods. lol http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif

Unlike "I Love Lucy," which is owned by CBS, "The Lucy Show" is owned by Paramount. Any idea what's on their plate?

And both are owned by Viacom.

Originally posted by Jenny:
I wished I could gind a guy like Desi.



http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/lol.gif I wish I could find a guy!

Originally posted by NCVARick:
Thanks, Dawsongirl. One thing to also keep in mind is that, even after Desi was no longer actively involved in Lucy's career, she still continued calling him for advice, right up until 1986 when she started "Life with Lucy" and he was dying of cancer. The woman *depended* on Desi and on his advice. When Desi died, her spirit pretty much died as well.

In spite of Lucille Ball would say publicly, she didn't have a whole lot of confidence in Gary Morton's business and showbiz instincts. In fact, she focused a lot of her anger at him (and herself) for the "Life with Lucy" debacle. She had had no interest in doing that show, according to Lee Tannen's book, but was basically cornered into doing it by Gary Morton.


I remember reading something like that. Even the people at Lucille Ball Productions (the ones that had worked with Desi anyway) thought he didn't know what he was doing and didn't trust him.

I hope I'm way off base, but sometimes I wonder if Gary married Lucy because he thought it might help his career. I mean, how many people knew who Gary Morton was prior? And I wonder if she was still a bit on the rebound. To have their marriage last as long as it did there must have been something there, but I just wonder how much.

Originally posted by dawsongirl:
I remember reading something like that. Even the people at Lucille Ball Productions (the ones that had worked with Desi anyway) thought he didn't know what he was doing and didn't trust him.

I hope I'm way off base, but sometimes I wonder if Gary married Lucy because he thought it might help his career. I mean, how many people knew who Gary Morton was prior? And I wonder if she was still a bit on the rebound. To have their marriage last as long as it did there must have been something there, but I just wonder how much.

Unfortunately, I don't think you're way off base. I think Lucy married Gary because she wanted stability. And Gary married Lucy because . . . . Well, who's to say for sure. But it's easy to speculate.

I spent some time a few years ago with someone (I won't mention the name) who was a close friend of Lucy's. This person told me that Gary paid little attention to Lucy at home and preferred to spend his days playing golf instead of being with her. Lee Tannen said basically the same thing in his book. He also made the point that Gary got Lucy involved in "Life with Lucy" basically because he was bored and wanted a project. Lucy had been saying for years she would not return to a "Lucy" series because she was "too old to be yelled at by Uncle Harry." When she did return, it was a shock to everyone. According to Tannen, Gary had gone behind her back and assembled all these people to do "Life with Lucy," promising them jobs, work. So by the time he presented the idea to Lucy, it was pretty much a done deal, and she felt she would be letting down all these people if she didn't do it. What a shame.

Originally posted by Jenny:
*sigh* Lucy and Desi really loved each other. Most divorced couples grow to hate each other, but not Lucy and Desi. That is so romantic they kept loving each other after the divorce. It is tragic they divorced, but it is still so heavenly that they still depended on each other. I wished I could gind a guy like Desi. Sorry guys, I'm in one of my Anne Shirley moods. lol http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif



Do you remember the story Lucie Arnaz has told about being with her father when he was on his death bed and Lucy called him for the last time? It was November 30, 1986. Lucie put the phone to her father's ear because he was too weak to hold it himself, and too weak to even talk. Lucie said she could hear her mother saying over and over "I love you, I love you" -- saying those words slightly differently each time, emphasizing a different word each time she said it. Those were Lucy's last words to Desi. Two days later, Desi was dead. Later, in reflecting back on that day, Lucie realized it had been her parents' 46th wedding anniversary.

Several days after Desi died, Lucy went to Washington, DC as an honoree at the Kennedy Center Honors. Among the various celebrities honoring Lucy that night were Robert Stack. He came to the stage and told the audience that Desi had wanted to be there that night, but he had brought along words Desi had written that he had wanted conveyed. In that statement from Desi, read by Stack, Desi praised Lucy's work, giving her credit "for 99 percent" of the success of "I Love Lucy," and at the end said that, for him "'I Love Lucy' was always more than just a title." Thus, Desi's last words to Lucy. Lucy was visibly fighting back tears when these words were being read.

So yes, there was always love between them. As Lucie Arnaz has said, their divorce didn't end their relationship, it just changed it. They were two people who couldn't live together, but couldn't live without one another, either. And neither were ever really happy again after their divorce. Lucy handled her pain by working constantly; Desi handled his by drinking. It was pretty sad.

Originally posted by NCVARick:
Do you remember the story Lucie Arnaz has told about being with her father when he was on his death bed and Lucy called him for the last time? It was November 30, 1986. Lucie put the phone to her father's ear because he was too weak to hold it himself, and too weak to even talk. Lucie said she could hear her mother saying over and over "I love you, I love you" -- saying those words slightly differently each time, emphasizing a different word each time she said it. Those were Lucy's last words to Desi. Two days later, Desi was dead. Later, in reflecting back on that day, Lucie realized it had been her parents' 46th wedding anniversary.

Several days after Desi died, Lucy went to Washington, DC as an honoree at the Kennedy Center Honors. Among the various celebrities honoring Lucy that night were Robert Stack. He came to the stage and told the audience that Desi had wanted to be there that night, but he had brought along words Desi had written that he had wanted conveyed. In that statement from Desi, read by Stack, Desi praised Lucy's work, giving her credit "for 99 percent" of the success of "I Love Lucy," and at the end said that, for him "'I Love Lucy' was always more than just a title." Thus, Desi's last words to Lucy. Lucy was visibly fighting back tears when these words were being read.

So yes, there was always love between them. As Lucie Arnaz has said, their divorce didn't end their relationship, it just changed it. They were two people who couldn't live together, but couldn't live without one another, either. And neither were ever really happy again after their divorce. Lucy handled her pain by working constantly; Desi handled his by drinking. It was pretty sad.

That is sad how they handled their pain. Each had their own faults, but still the love lived on. If I should ever meet a man like Desi, I know to hold on to him for dear life. Unfortunately, I think most of the Desi's are taken where I live. I almost cried when I read about when Desi was on his deathbed and Lucy called in and kept saying she loved him. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/crying.gif http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/crying.gif

Originally posted by Jenny:
That is sad how they handled their pain. Each had their own faults, but still the love lived on. If I should ever meet a man like Desi, I know to hold on to him for dear life. Unfortunately, I think most of the Desi's are taken where I live. I almost cried when I read about when Desi was on his deathbed and Lucy called in and kept saying she loved him. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/crying.gif http://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/crying.gif



You hit the nail on the head. Each of them had their faults. Much is made of Desi's philandering and his temper, but I have no doubt Lucy could be difficult to live with. She certainly had a temper, too. The fact that these two, despite their very strong and difficult personality characteristics, managed to stay together for 20 years says something about the true depth of their love for one another.

Goes to show that true love never dies. I only hope when I get married I have that true love with the man I marry.