That's an awkward subject heading, isn't it? I was thinking about
the show, how much I liked it,
how consist DVD has been throughout
his career, and realized the show was too. It may be the only show I ever
liked and lasted that long that didn't fall into at least two
distinct periods that "might" have
changed how you felt about the show. I mean, like MTM's show had before and after Rhonda. Happy Days before and after being filmed in front of an audience really changed the show. The Odd Couple too. The Munsters changed
Marilyns and changed the show. Bob
Newhart changed apartments and signaled a good/bad change in the show. Gomer Pyle and the Beverly
Hillbillies went B&W to color and changed, one good, one bad. Cheers
after Shelly Long left was two different shows. Bewitched, two Darrins...I think it goes on forever (like this thought).TDVD was the most consistant show of all time...Oh yeah, Andy Griffith before and after Barney. And I now realize this is
sorta similar to the Jumping The
Shark idea of good and bad but I've
written too much to erase it now.
Besides, they were way off anyway.
Thoughts? ANY other sitcom that
didn't change?

You know what, at the risk of killing my own thread, I just thought of
one. And probably the most
underrated sitcom of all time,
3rd Rock From the Sun. Love it or hate it. It didn't change. Oh well...

That's basically true, Samme,
But then there's the minor fact that Laura was the "straight woman" initially, but learned comedy so quickly, that Carl decided to change her into a comical character too. For the first half of the first season, Laura was a sensible suburban housewife surrounded by jokers. She had funny lines and mishaps, but they mostly formed a platform for the comedic lines and antics of the other characters, not her own.
In episode #17, "The Curious Thing About Women," is where Laura was first shown to be comical on her own. When she couldn't contain her curiosity and decided to open a large package meant for Rob, it was all her. The antics of walking around it, kicking it, pouncing on it with her teeth, then trying desperately to hide a fully inflated raft; that side of her character had never been revealed before.
But it was, as I said, a minor change. You're right, for the most part. The show was basically the same for it's entire run.

Steve

One show that had many changes was M*A*S*H. It was my favorite show until Radar left. It changed first when Henry Blake was killed and Trapper John left. It survived well with B.J. Honeycutt and Col. Potter. Then Radar left and Klinger became company clerk. They started yelling their lines and became very politically correct. Klinger stopped trying to get a section 8. It ruined the show. I have the season 1 through 3 DVDs and will buy them until Radar left the show. That's when I will no longer buy them. Even now, when those late episodes come on TV, I turn them off.
You are absolutely right that the Dick Van Dyke show stayed true to it's origins. To me, it is like an old friend. I know them all by heart and they are still funny 40 years later. I can't wait for DVD on DVD! Lolac :wave:

Originally posted by SawgrassSteve
That's basically true, Samme,
But then there's the minor fact that Laura was the "straight woman" initially, but learned comedy so quickly, that Carl decided to change her into a comical character too. For the first half of the first season, Laura was a sensible suburban housewife surrounded by jokers. She had funny lines and mishaps, but they mostly formed a platform for the comedic lines and antics of the other characters, not her own.
In episode #17, "The Curious Thing About Women," is where Laura was first shown to be comical on her own. When she couldn't contain her curiosity and decided to open a large package meant for Rob, it was all her. The antics of walking around it, kicking it, pouncing on it with her teeth, then trying desperately to hide a fully inflated raft; that side of her character had never been revealed before.
But it was, as I said, a minor change. You're right, for the most part. The show was basically the same for it's entire run.

Steve
I disagree with the first episode that showed Laura doing comedy on her own. It was the episode in Season 1, "The Blonde-Haired Brunette", that showcased Mary Tyler Moore's ability to do comedy. It was episode #9 where Carl Reiner decided to make Mary Tyler Moore the lead actress over Rose Marie. It was the reason why there was friction between her and Rose Marie because originally Rose was supposed to be second banana but Laura Petrie grew into a very prominent part of the show.

mstewart,
I didn't forget about #9, "The Blonde-Haired Brunette." While true, that episode did show Laura in a funny situation, if you look carefully the next time you see it, notice where almost all of the jokes are coming from. You're laughing at Rob and Millie. Laura was still a platform for their comedy. All she did was run out of dye, the laughs surrounding her misfortune came from the others.

Steve

Originally posted by SawgrassSteve
mstewart,
I didn't forget about #9, "The Blonde-Haired Brunette." While true, that episode did show Laura in a funny situation, if you look carefully the next time you see it, notice where almost all of the jokes are coming from. You're laughing at Rob and Millie. Laura was still a platform for their comedy. All she did was run out of dye, the laughs surrounding her misfortune came from the others.

Steve

If you look at when she tried to dye it back to natural and she explained why she did it the laughs and applause were coming from and for Laura. MTM stated in interviews when they were doing the episode Carl Reiner showed her how she can make that scene her own and to get laughs for it. She always states that it was the episode that broke through for her and caused the Laura Petrie character to move and grow beyond just being the straight person or the TV wife who reacts to her husband coming in and talking about his day. That was the original intent of Laura Petrie. I'll tell you Laura Petrie was the idea wife and she took the role of a TV wife to new dimensions during that time. I love her scenes in those tight slacks.

Originally posted by mstewart


If you look at when she tried to dye it back to natural and she explained why she did it the laughs and applause were coming from and for Laura.

I'm with you, MStewart.

"...and you said (sniff), 'Don't do that!'...and the gray hair!"

Those last 4 words get me every time. :lol:

Originally posted by TVgen62


I'm with you, MStewart.

"...and you said (sniff), 'Don't do that!'...and the gray hair!"

Those last 4 words get me every time. :lol:

I agree with both of you. "My Blonde-Haired Brunette" is one of my favorite episodes (Not to mention one of Mary's!). That final scene is entirely Mary's. That was her first time getting something important to do. She did a great job, especially considering that she had just about no comedy experience.

Kristen

Originally posted by mstewart

I disagree with the first episode that showed Laura doing comedy on her own. It was the episode in Season 1, "The Blonde-Haired Brunette", that showcased Mary Tyler Moore's ability to do comedy. It was episode #9 where Carl Reiner decided to make Mary Tyler Moore the lead actress over Rose Marie. It was the reason why there was friction between her and Rose Marie because originally Rose was supposed to be second banana but Laura Petrie grew into a very prominent part of the show.


Yes, I'm sure you've noticed that Mary always had last billing on the show even after all those seasons! I always wondered about that. :confused:

Originally posted by Penny Lane



Yes, I'm sure you've noticed that Mary always had last billing on the show even after all those seasons! I always wondered about that. :confused:

I sure did notice in the billing, "...and Mary Tyler Moore."

She may have been last in the billing but her prominent role in the show brought about an air of jealousy from Rose Marie. She was originally suppose to have the prominent role in the show. It should not matter how the billing was done it was a classic and each player on that show brought a lot to the table. That was one exceptional cast and stayed intact throughout the five seasons on the air and knew when to call it quits. Too bad there are not many shows with exceptional casts like TDVDS and know when to call it quits without beating the show into the ground.

Even though I love MTM, I think her credit coming after Rose Marie was appropriate. Rose Marie had and still has been in show business a lot longer than Mary.


....but that still doesn't explain why Mary comes after Larry Matthews! Come on!

Originally posted by MTM1Fan
Even though I love MTM, I think her credit coming after Rose Marie was appropriate. Rose Marie had and still has been in show business a lot longer than Mary.

....but that still doesn't explain why Mary comes after Larry Matthews! Come on!

You know, guys...if you think about it, being last is not a curse. Last-named in a cast is often a place of honor almost equal to first billing. In rote (i.e., list) memorization, the first and last items are most likely to be remembered. It's the poor slobs in the middle that are most often forgotten. (But of course, we all remember Rose Amsterdam and Morey Matthews and Larry Marie!) :lol:

Originally posted by TVgen62

(But of course, we all remember Rose Amsterdam and Morey Matthews and Larry Marie!) :lol:





Hehehe :crazy:

Originally posted by mstewart

If you look at when she tried to dye it back to natural and she explained why she did it the laughs and applause were coming from and for Laura... I love her scenes in those tight slacks.
You're right, mstewart,
That scene is funny, and it was all Mary's. I guess it was her breakthrough scene.
At least we immediately agree on the Capri pants!

Steve

Originally posted by SawgrassSteve

You're right, mstewart,
That scene is funny, and it was all Mary's. I guess it was her breakthrough scene.
At least we immediately agree on the Capri pants!

Steve

Hey Steve my favorite part of Laura's crying speech is: "...and you said (sniff), 'Don't do that!'...and the gray hair!" She nailed that scene as any natural comedianne would.

One thing about the character of Laura Petrie is she took the role of a TV wife/housewife to a whole new level where she was seen as a real person with real human needs with flaws and not centering her entire world around her husband. It was cool she wore pants, sexy tight pants that is, while doing housework. MTM had to fight CBS to wear the slacks. They were concern because the cut of the pants would show too much butt. MTM always have that earthy girl next door look about her.

Old thread, but I think this is right.

There's a little stretch right at the start where there's a little bit of a grim take on marriage and suburban life - The Sick Boy and the Sitter, Washington v. The Bunny, Jealousy! - but that's pretty clearly left behind by the middle of the first season and they're just exploiting whatever funny situations they can dream up.

No significant decline - probably 10 of the last dozen episodes in the series are excellent.
That's probably why I don't like many of the earliest episodes. Rob and Laura just didn't come across as likeable or funny and the show was pretty bland. Thankfully the actors and characters eventually developed into their true forms and made TDVDS one of the greatest series of all time. And I agree, once the show got into its proper "groove" there was never a dip in quality in any successive seasons.

The shaky beginnings were understandable though because I think this applies to all shows in the history of TV - they need a period of time at the beginning to find themselves and account for what is and isn't working. For this reason I don't think any show can say it never had "two lives".

The only exceptions to this might be one-season shows like "The Honeymooners", where there's really no time for significant change to occur. Or maybe "Hogan's Heroes", which somehow stuck with the same premise from day one, all the way through six seasons, with minimal (perhaps zero) plot and character development. The exception there would be when Ivan Dixon left, though this was near the end of its run, and the new character mysteriously assumed his old role without discussion or explanation.

Yes, I'm sure you've noticed that Mary always had last billing on the show even after all those seasons! I always wondered about that. :confused:

MTM was billed in front of Larry Mathews in the S1 credits, so she wasn't always last, and when she was mentioned last starting in S2, I agree with others who stated that being mentioned last can be very good, almost (but not quite) as good as being mentioned first.

MASH had three very good seasons,but went down hill after the first three, when frank left the show was never the same.