It looks like I'm in the minority on this one, but I actually like the Billie episodes more than Murray ones (nothing against Murray, but there were too many older people on the show). I think that Billie and Roger brought back some of the show's spark that had been missing, and put Archie in a new situation but as Harry said "has seen before" as in Mike and Gloria. I think Roger only appeared in one more episode and then left without explanation, to be replaced by Barry Gordon as Gary Rabinowitz.

Just a few continuity errors:

Billie is spoken of as if she is Fred's only daughter, but Fred has another daughter, Linda, who appeared early on AITF and dated Lionel. Linda was never mentioned again and it might have been interesting to bring her back for a guest appearance (and Lionel also, as we have stated before on these boards).

Archie mentions he hasn't spoken to Fred in two years (which was his last guest appearance on AITF). That means Fred didn't come to Edith's funeral(one year earlier). Archie would have been furious if Fred didn't come, or if he did come, then Archie should've said he hasn't seen Fred since the funeral. What I didn't like about the Billie episodes is that Edith is now hardly ever mentioned.

Murray wouldn't have left for San Fran leaving Archie in charge of the books! He would have made sure someone was in place before he left. As it was, the Archie and Roger scenes together were the funniest Archie had been since the meathead.

To clarify a "blooper" mentioned on tvtome, I think that Abe Rabinowitz is the brother of Sol (who appeared on AITF first season, played by a different actor), and "Sam" could be another one of the sons or nephews, so that is not really a blooper.

Also, it was fun to see a connection with my other favorite sitcom. The woman who sat next to Archie and Billie on the subway was played by Liz Sheridan, who played Jerry's mother on Seinfeld!

I'm glad they added Billie to the show too. The upcoming episodes (for the rest of the week) are pretty good.
-Kristi

I liked Billie too as a character, a lot more than Murray's character. She was cuter for one thing. And, like I said, she too was a strong character and was a good match for O'Connor's Archie. Good thing Denise Miller and not, say, Amy Linker (of Square Pegs) had been cast in the role of Billie. Linker was a pretty good (and pretty) actress but she emotionally wasn't quite as strong a presence as Ms. Miller.

Did anybody notice that when Harry was talking about Billie to Archie, he used her real name Denise? This was "The Date" episode. Hi to everybody




Leroy

Originally posted by exilemain
Did anybody notice that when Harry was talking about Billie to Archie, he used her real name Denise? This was "The Date" episode. Hi to everybody




Leroy

I didn't notice that. Welcome to the boards, btw. :)

Welcome to the boards, Leroy, but I played it back and Harry said to Archie "Your niece is doing a great job" not "Denise".

Remember Jason Wingreen had a bit part in "Airplane" playing the the administrator from the Mayo Clinic?

Also, I don't want to sound like a daily blooper column, but when Archie first bought the bar from Kelsey, Harry said he had worked for Kelsey for ten years. This episode was four years later and Harry has still worked there ten years. Also, when Murray bought out Harry, surely Alice would have asked Harry what he was going to do with the money then. Maybe Harry thought he was still in "Airplane" and said "Don't call me Shirley!"

I think Denise Miller is a very appealing actress -- too bad she had to join ABP at the tail end, when it was really out of gas.

I also thought Harry said "Denise" too, and I did a double-take. It makes sense that it was "your niece", but it sure didn't sound like it at the time (I didn't replay it though, so I trust Jon's judgement).

What happened with the episode where Archie wanted to make Harry his partner again? What did Harry do with the money? And didn't his wife know about Harry selling his share of the bar to Murray?

Also, didn't Harry's wife seem a bit too sophisticated to be married to Harry?

It also appeared when Denise Miller/Billie came on, Barbara Meek's character was written out, right? I agree, a few two many older people, but that never bothered me. The episode where Archie goes out with Barney's date was a really good episode, to be honest. It was nice actually hearing a mention of Edith and Archie still acted as though he was married. Which was nice. Even though her actual name wasn't used... lol. If you just CAN'T accept she's gone in the series, just assume she's off your screen, like in the 1st season, lol. But, I still don't like how they never had a real onscreen funeral. I know it would probably be impossible, lol, but back then, it probably would've brought closure, but then they'd have to explain why Maude, The Jeffersons, etc. weren't there and that would be too much to handle, lol.

Sorry I got so off-topic. I don't see why people are complaining about ABP. The show isn't that bad. But most of the cast was heavily underused, imo.

Thanks Jon for the correction. I think Denise Miller is great on that show as Billie! She can sure handle Archie.





Leroy

TV Junkie, there is a wonderful fan fic somewhere on the board by Thomas E with the "never produced" episode of Edith's death and gathering after her funeral. Mike, Gloria, Maude, the Jeffersons, and even the Lorenzos are all there. It would have been wonderful if they had actually had this episode and rounded up everyone but I think the producers wanted to keep Edith's death low key and not exploit it (also it would have been expensive to get everyone). But it did leave me feeling like I had gone out of town for a month to return and discover a dear friend or relative had died and I missed the funeral.

Yeah, I agree. I just feel there wasn't proper closure. It just always seems like she is just off-screen, lol.

Originally posted by jon123
TV Junkie, there is a wonderful fan fic somewhere on the board by Thomas E with the "never produced" episode of Edith's death and gathering after her funeral. Mike, Gloria, Maude, the Jeffersons, and even the Lorenzos are all there. It would have been wonderful if they had actually had this episode and rounded up everyone but I think the producers wanted to keep Edith's death low key and not exploit it (also it would have been expensive to get everyone). But it did leave me feeling like I had gone out of town for a month to return and discover a dear friend or relative had died and I missed the funeral.

Yeah, I read Thomas E's fan fic. It was terrific. If you haven't read it, go read it.

When Stephanie offered to give up her room to Billie, you could see the influence of Aunt Edith rubbed off. Edith could never turn anybody in need away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnY4-55gt08

Thanks Jon for the correction. I think Denise Miller is great on that show as Billie! She can sure handle Archie.





Leroy

Agreed, good to have younger characters who are written well, as the writers on Archie Bunker's Place managed.

Didn't Billie sort of replace Archie's maid? I read that Barbara Meek left the show. But was she purposely written out? No doubt the first 2 seasons were the best. I think Billie was a great addition because she was like a mentor to Stephanie. Stephanie was grown up and a teenager. Their dynamic together worked.

Didn't Billie sort of replace Archie's maid? I read that Barbara Meek left the show. But was she purposely written out? No doubt the first 2 seasons were the best. I think Billie was a great addition because she was like a mentor to Stephanie. Stephanie was grown up and a teenager. Their dynamic together worked.

From what I recall Barbara Meek's departure was unexpected so not wanting a repeat, Yvonne Wilder was offered a contract role with a big storyline bump. But she only wanted to continue Katherine Logan on a recurring basis. So she was let go instead of risking having another character leave mid season.

To me, the addition of Billie was a welcome addition to a show that had many older actors. It was also possible that Archie Bunker's Place attracted an older audience and CBS wanted to bring in younger viewers to the show. Billie was like an older sister to Stephanie and her relationship with Gary Rabinowitz added depth to the show.

To me, the addition of Billie was a welcome addition to a show that had many older actors. It was also possible that Archie Bunker's Place attracted an older audience and CBS wanted to bring in younger viewers to the show. Billie was like an older sister to Stephanie and her relationship with Gary Rabinowitz added depth to the show.

Yes, CoC said all this in the 8/8/81 TV Guide. He said the network wanted the cast to get younger but he thought it was important for the show that the addition of Denise didn't come at the expense of Danielle. Yet Stephanie's growth was stunted as she wasn't on much after that. Then Joe Gannon chimed in that Steve Hendrickson was being added for a big Meathead kinda role. But he disappeared after TWO episodes.