that without Murray, this show is BORING. Archie has no one left to bounce off of. That episode today, with Stephanie going to the dance, just...lacked something. And the last episode I saw on New Year's Day just stunk.

Yeah, I'm gonna def. miss Murray. It's funny but I wasn't really fond of the Murray character when TVL first started showing ABP. I like him now.

Oh yeah, I agree the New Years ep did suck. Isn't that sad? All in the Family and Archie Bunker's Place (combining years now) had such a long run and it got screwed out of a true final episode. It's just sad.

The show did have a wonderful final episode. It's called "The Stivics Go West", and is a real tear-jerker, with Mike and Gloria moving away, leaving a heartbroken Archie and Edith behind.

Seriously, if the show had stopped there (as Norman Lear had intended), it would have arguably had the best finale of all time. But Carroll O'Connor insisted on continuing the show, with some of the lesser lights of the creative team. What kind of finale could they have come up with for ABP? Edith was dead, the Stivics were divorced, and the show was running on fumes. Any planned finale for ABP would have only been a major letdown.

Originally posted by TV Guy
The show did have a wonderful final episode. It's called "The Stivics Go West", and is a real tear-jerker, with Mike and Gloria moving away, leaving a heartbroken Archie and Edith behind.



Seriously, if the show had stopped there (as Norman Lear had intended), it would have arguably had the best finale of all time. But Carroll O'Connor insisted on continuing the show, with some of the lesser lights of the creative team. What kind of finale could they have come up with for ABP? Edith was dead, the Stivics were divorced, and the show was running on fumes. Any planned finale for ABP would have only been a major letdown.

I know. It would've made an absolutely perfect ending w/ the Stivics Go West. They showed that episode last night and I always cry at the end of it.

Like I said, you really can't compare AITF and ABP. ABP will always come out second. I'm not even sure I should say this since I haven't even seen every episode of ABP, but just looking at how dull the final episode of ABP was I can tell that it ended up a shell. All the formula has been taken out and the end of ABP is just the empty shell.

I must admit the first few episodes I seen when TVL first started showing the show, I thought they were dull. I was comparing them to All in the Family and of course ABP seemed dull. I started watching the episodes again and they kind of grow on you. I still like ABP, but they should've ended it with the Stivics Go West.

I Think the episode where Archie kisses Sammy Davis at the end would have been a pretty cool ending for a show. Not sad like alot of finales, But funny and somewhat shocking.

The episode shown yesterday and the ones that will be shown today were taped in the 2nd season and held to the 3rd (there were fewer weeks in the 1980-81 season due to a writers strike), so they don't include either Murray or Billie. I actually enjoyed the Stephanie date episode, it was refreshing to see a show that was set at the Bunker home again and not at the bar. When Billie arrives she will give Archie someone to bounce off again. I think Mrs. Canby was underused and also could have been a better bounce off.

I agree the real final episode was "The Stivics Go West". Norman wanted to end there, but Carroll didn't. Carroll figured if he would never play a role as great as Archie again (and he didn't, I didn't care for him as a Southern sheriff) but Jean wanted to move on which led to ABP.

Although it would have been a gimmick, ABP could have ended by making Edith's death and Mike and Gloria's divorce all a dream. Anything that would bring Edith back to life I'm sure most of us would have forgiven a stupid gimmick. This was before "Dallas" or "Newhart" or even (gasp)"Roseanne" so I'm sure no one thought of this at the time.

Originally posted by jon123
it was refreshing to see a show that was set at the Bunker home again and not at the bar.

That's true. And I had to laugh at the whole Scott Baio thing.

Originally posted by jon123
. Carroll figured if he would never play a role as great as Archie again (and he didn't, I didn't care for him as a Southern sheriff

Wow, you don't like 'In the Heat of the Night' either? I like Carroll and I like Archie Bunker, but I could never sit through one ep of ITHOTN.

I agree with ending All in the Family with Mike and Gloria moving away, but there are certain things that are expressed more as the show continued. In fact if there was to be an All in the Family sequel, it should have started it's first episode where Stephanie moves in the house. One of the reasons being is because in syndication, you have to wait for those episodes to air before you get back into the Mike and Gloria (earlier) episodes.

As for Archie Bunker's Place, there was good stories and interesting plots. The show expressed more in certain ways. First of all, it reminded me of my Grampa Case, in the sense of the world changing around him. Continuing AITF in a sequel series enforced the struggle of Archie and his dealings with a changing world around him. In the CBS series 704 Hauser Street (1993), a black family was living in Archie Bunker's old house. It is strange because my Grampa dealt with a changing world around him and later in life, a black family moved into his house. Changes will always progress, but some people are just comfortable where they are and ABP expressed that about Archie.

In my humble opinion they really hurt the legacy of AITF by splitting up the Stivics and killing off Edith. It just didn't seem right.

In my humble opinion they really hurt the legacy of AITF by splitting up the Stivics and killing off Edith. It just didn't seem right.

I totally agree. I enjoy watching ABP, but it also hurts when you see early the AITF episodes knowing Edith will die at the end of the decade and the Stivics will split up.

one good thing i have to say about ABP...in this show, archie became much more "human"...he really did take on more of edith's spirit, i think.
when he won custody of stephanie from her grandmother, archie was never more endearing...and when he sent steph back into the courtroom to say goodbye to her grandmother, and turned to the gang from the bar, i still cry when i see his face at that moment...

one good thing i have to say about ABP...in this show, archie became much more "human"...he really did take on more of edith's spirit, i think.

And Archie was even more human when his love for Stephanie and his fear of her getting hurt like her friend led him to sign the waiver allowing her to take the sex education class. Admittedly, that episode would not have been as effective if Edith were still there because this gave Archie the chance to change himself. We got to see a new side of Archie. I can relate to this because my mother passed away before my father and as much as we missed our mother, we got to see a new side to our father as his personality blossomed even though he was going through the terrible grief (although my father being a lifelong Democrat, its weird to compare him to Archie!)

The show did suffer a big loss when Murray was gone.

Originally posted by jon123
And Archie was even more human when his love for Stephanie and his fear of her getting hurt like her friend led him to sign the waiver allowing her to take the sex education class. Admittedly, that episode would not have been as effective if Edith were still there because this gave Archie the chance to change himself. We got to see a new side of Archie.

That was a good episode.