I had forgotten that Custody was set during Christmastime. Too many holes in the plot. Why would the grandmother be so heartless as to begin the custody fight just before Christmas? Also, it would take weeks or months to get a hearing date-you wouldn't get one right away. Why couldn't Stephanie just tell her grandmother she wanted to stay with Archie (I think she does in part 2) and avoid the stupid court fight. I'm sure a compromise like Stephanie staying with her grandmother once a month or so could be worked out.

Also, if this is the first Christmas after Edith's death, then why isn't Archie spending it with Gloria and Joey (and the meathead, who has not yet run off to the commune). I know Rob and Sally didn't want to appear, but why couldn't Archie and Stephanie go to California (off screen) to spend Christmas together. Archie surely could have gotten a few days off from the bar and there was no restraining order to keep from taking Stephanie with him.

At least we got to see Mrs. Canby. Too bad we won't see more of her unless TVL airs all the episodes.

Yeah, the episode did have too many holes in the plot. I did like Mrs. Canby though. She wasn't Edith, but the Mrs. Canby character stood out on her own.

I'm getting a bit off topic now, but I wish they could've gotten Rob Reiner back to do ABP. If they had never divorced Gloria and Michael, I would've loved to see Mike and Gloria's face when they go to the Bunker house and actually see how Archie changed so much since the last time they were together. That would make a good fan fic if anybody wants to try it.

I agree that there were too many plot holes in this episode. Why wasn't the grandmother ever even mentioned during the previous two years? I would have liked to see Archie continue to push the issue of why she hadn't bothered with Stephanie in years.

As far as Mrs. Canby goes, I think that character represents a missed opportunity. She was really boring, and was dropped after two seasons. They should have brought someone in who would have more conflict with Archie. But let's face it, bringing in new characters was never a strength of ABP.

Originally posted by TV Guy
I agree that there were too many plot holes in this episode. Why wasn't the grandmother ever even mentioned during the previous two years? I would have liked to see Archie continue to push the issue of why she hadn't bothered with Stephanie in years.

As far as Mrs. Canby goes, I think that character represents a missed opportunity. She was really boring, and was dropped after two seasons. They should have brought someone in who would have more conflict with Archie. But let's face it, bringing in new characters was never a strength of ABP.

I say as far as the grandmother goes I will let that pass because to me it was not a big issue not mentioning her early on. I thought it was a good part 1 episode though it seemed like Archie and Stephanie and the Living Room mourned Edith for the last 3 seasons of the show. Did you hear the fake audience?

I'll agree that Canby's character was just average but she was a nice lady. I liked the fact that Archie hired her. There was really no room for her character to flourish. However she overall did her job because she was there to work for him. I wish that she'd stuck around the last season.

I thought Stephanie was more over-powered than Archie in this episode, she had her decisions to make whether she would stay with Archie or live with her Grandmother. Archie has been living with Stephanie for quite some time and her grandmother never took the time to take care for her, until Archie had custody over her. Her Grandmother may know little about her niece and might not know what's best for Stephanie or what's best for herself and even though she is a relative. It doesn't exactly mean she could disturb her life and snatch her out from Archie without consenting him.

I'm sure if Archie and Stephanie's Grandmother could agree upon taking Stephanie out once in awhile, they might be able to work something out, so they both will have the advatage to spend time with Stephanie seperately. Hopefully the will have Joint Custody over Stephanie in the 2nd episode of the two-parter.

It was interesting to see Mrs. Canby in this epsiode, she might not be involved in the show's plot but she does play a roll involving the family, and a close fill-in for Edith.

I think Rob was focusing on his directing career (maybe writing "This is Spinal Tap") by this time. Still, he made guest appearances the first two years after he left and I don't why he couldn't continue to do so as a favor to his good friend Carroll. I'm sure he was not happy that his character was sent off to a commune.

Mrs. Canby was featured more in some of the second season episodes, but there were just too many regulars on the show for her character to stand out. Also, the audience was probably uncomfortable seeing another woman besides Edith run the Bunker household. It was nice to see Archie hire a black housekeeper and it was too bad there weren't more plotlines with her. She disappeared without explanation before the last season.

As stupid as it was that it went as far as a court battle, it was nice to see Archie evolve from not wanting Stephanie at first to now fighting her grandmother for custody. Archie now loved Stephanie like a daughter.

Originally posted by jon123
I think Rob was focusing on his directing career (maybe writing "This is Spinal Tap") by this time. Still, he made guest appearances the first two years after he left and I don't why he couldn't continue to do so as a favor to his good friend Carroll. I'm sure he was not happy that his character was sent off to a commune.

Mrs. Canby was featured more in some of the second season episodes, but there were just too many regulars on the show for her character to stand out. Also, the audience was probably uncomfortable seeing another woman besides Edith run the Bunker household. It was nice to see Archie hire a black housekeeper and it was too bad there weren't more plotlines with her. She disappeared without explanation before the last season.

As stupid as it was that it went as far as a court battle, it was nice to see Archie evolve from not wanting Stephanie at first to now fighting her grandmother for custody. Archie now loved Stephanie like a daughter.

It's funny that you mention that jon123, because what Archie's character developed was an "arc". He did a 180 just like Dustin Hoffman in "Kramer vs. Kramer". The father did not want his son after the mother left and the father grew to love the child just like Archie grew to love Stephanie. I thought that it was great about Archie and Stephanie's relationship. I knew Barbara Meek was featured in the 1981-1982 credits but did not know she was featured in the 80-81 season.

Barbara Meek joined the show on the first "non TV land" episode(not counting "A Small Mafia Favor"). Mrs. Canby was the sister of Archie's neighbor Ed (married to Polly, lived in the old Jefferson and then Stivic house).

Thomas E, the laughter you heard in this episode was real. Archie Bunker's Place was recorded before a live audience on Soundstage 31 at CBS Television City for all 4 seasons. The fact is that after the death of Edith, the audience reaction in most of the episodes was not what the producers had hoped for, so they ended up using laugh sweeteners.

:) :D ;) :cool: :talk: :crazy: :lol: :happyface :wave:

Originally posted by AITF & ABP ROCK!!
Thomas E, the laughter you heard in this episode was real. Archie Bunker's Place was recorded before a live audience on Soundstage 31 at CBS Television City for all 4 seasons.

No, it wasn't. Starting with season 9 of "All in the Family" and continuing throughout ABP, the audience was dropped, and the show was shot in bits and pieces throughout the week. The finished show was then played back (on tape) before a studio audience, and the reactions were recorded for the sound track. This change in taping techniques is described in the book "Archie, Edith, Mike & Gloria" (which is excellent, BTW). It was made at Carroll O'Connor's request, and since Norman Lear, a big proponent of the studio audience, was no longer involved in day-to-day production, the request was granted.

At the end of the season 9 AITF episodes, O'Connor actually says over the closing credits, "'All in the Family' was played back to a studio audience for live responses". In previous years, Rob Reiner said, "'All in the Family' is videotaped before a studio audience."

You can really notice the difference when you listen to how loud the actors deliver their lines during seasons 1-8 (so the audience can hear), versus season 9 and beyond, when they speak in a more conversational tone.

I thought the last season of ABP had canned laughter instead of it being taped and then played back for responses. But I guess not, after reading here and that's good too, the show would've gone further downhill in ratings of there had been any canned laughter.
-Kristi

Oops, I could have sworn that ABP was taped in front of a live audience because I read that on the All In The Family Site message board. Anyway, I know the 9th season no longer used a live audience, but then why wouldn't Carroll O'Connor say so in the closing credits of ABP. I don't know I still think the show was taped in front of a live audience because I thought one of the requirements to tape a sitcom at CBS Television City was to use a live audience.

That could've been a requirement of CBS, I'm not sure. I hope it was.
-Kristi

Originally posted by AITF & ABP ROCK!!
I don't know I still think the show was taped in front of a live audience because I thought one of the requirements to tape a sitcom at CBS Television City was to use a live audience.

No, it states in the book that it was not taped before a live audience for the last season of AITF as well as the run of ABP. It allowed for a four-day work week as opposed to a five-day with a live audience, and this was one of O'Connor's requirements to continue with the show.

There are shows that tape at CBS Television City without a live audience -- soap operas, for instance. It has facilities to accomodate shows that shoot with an audience, and without.

I definitely recommending picking up "Archie, Edith, Mike, and Gloria" if you are a fan. It covers the entire run, from AITF to ABP, and has a lot of interesting behind-the-scenes trivia.

I have that book...it is worth picking up. I forgot about the part you mentioned. That does make sense though. It's still good that they had the "live responses" when an audience viewed the tape.
-Kristi

Thanks, Tv Guy. I already have "Archie & Edith, Mike & Gloria". It was an interesting book, because I learned a lot of facts
about AITF & ABP that I never knew before. Anyway I'm posting the information about ABP that I got off of the AITF site message board. These are supposedly little known facts of ABP that were posted on there the night ABP started on TV Land:

1) The show was shot at CBS Television City in Hollywood on Soundstage 31.

2) Soundstage 31 was the coldest set in Hollywood. There was never any heat over there.

3) Martin Balsam signed on for a 3 year contract but he stayed
on for only 2.

4) The outside of the Bunker house was taped on an outside soundstage on the back lot.

5) The show was rehearsed in 4 days not 5 days:

Monday: They got the script in first draft
Tuesday: Walk through and blocking
Wednesday: Rehearsal
Thursday: Tape in front of a live audience contrary to popular belief

6) The show was renewed for a 5th season but was canceled in the summer of 1983

Originally posted by TV Guy



I definitely recommending picking up "Archie, Edith, Mike, and Gloria" if you are a fan. It covers the entire run, from AITF to ABP, and has a lot of interesting behind-the-scenes trivia.

I've never read that book. I'll have to pick it up the next time I go to the library.

Jenny, if you go to amazon.com, and do a search for archie, edith you will find the book. You can get it used for $6 from zshops. It is absolutely required reading for true blue fans like ourselves.

Originally posted by jon123
Jenny, if you go to amazon.com, and do a search for archie, edith you will find the book. You can get it used for $6 from zshops. It is absolutely required reading for true blue fans like ourselves.

Thanks for the info, Jon! :)

Originally posted by AITF & ABP ROCK!!
These are supposedly little known facts of ABP that were posted on there the night ABP started on TV Land:

1) The show was shot at CBS Television City in Hollywood on Soundstage 31.

2) Soundstage 31 was the coldest set in Hollywood. There was never any heat over there.

3) Martin Balsam signed on for a 3 year contract but he stayed
on for only 2.

4) The outside of the Bunker house was taped on an outside soundstage on the back lot.

5) The show was rehearsed in 4 days not 5 days:

Monday: They got the script in first draft
Tuesday: Walk through and blocking
Wednesday: Rehearsal
Thursday: Tape in front of a live audience contrary to popular belief

6) The show was renewed for a 5th season but was canceled in the summer of 1983

Interesting, but there are some factual errors here. The show was never renewed for a fifth season. In the spring of 1983, O'Connor and Lear did discuss ideas for a possible fifth season, but when CBS announced the fall schedule in May, ABP was not on it. This news even made the front page of the local paper where I grew up, accompanied by a picture of Archie with his ever-present cigar.

The outside (front porch) of the Bunker house was attached to the regular set inside the studio, and was not in some separate outside soundstage. You can see this in "Thanksgiving Reunion" in the scene where Archie greets Gloria on the porch.

There was no studio audience present during the taping, according to several other sources. You can even tell if you listen closely to the episodes -- the actors deliver their lines at a much lower volume than in the AITF episodes that had a studio audience.

Originally posted by TV Guy


Interesting, but there are some factual errors here. The show was never renewed for a fifth season. In the spring of 1983, O'Connor and Lear did discuss ideas for a possible fifth season, but when CBS announced the fall schedule in May, ABP was not on it. This news even made the front page of the local paper where I grew up, accompanied by a picture of Archie with his ever-present cigar.



Do you still have that paper, TV Guy?

All in the Family and Archie were such big things in entertainment and I get the feeling that paper would be worth so much money today- or maybe years from now. I don't sell the collectibles that I buy, but it's still kind of interesting to see how much somebody would pay for a paper telling about Elvis Presley's death or a paper telling about the end of All in the Family/Archie Bunker's Place.

Thanks for answering back TV Guy, I knew that part about the outside of the house being taped on a back lot had to be incorrect. Anyway the whole thing that brought this up was the fact if there was an audience during taping or if there was no audience during the taping. I don't think there is an answer to that question because some people say it was taped before an audience and some people say it wasn't.

Originally posted by Jenny

Do you still have that paper, TV Guy?

All in the Family and Archie were such big things in entertainment and I get the feeling that paper would be worth so much money today- or maybe years from now. I don't sell the collectibles that I buy, but it's still kind of interesting to see how much somebody would pay for a paper telling about Elvis Presley's death or a paper telling about the end of All in the Family/Archie Bunker's Place.

I didn't clip it, but now I wish I had. I did clip a few other TV items from the paper in the 80s, like an article detailing the planned "Facts of Life" spinoff for Blair (where she runs the school).

As far as the studio audience question goes -- maybe Danielle Brisebois or Anne Meara or someone will do a fan chat, and someone can ask them.

Does anybody on this board have proof that ABP was taped in front of a live studio audience? This question has to be solved once and for all!




:) ;) :p :cool: :rolleyes: :talk: :crazy: :lol: :happyface :wave:

I had forgotten that Custody was set during Christmastime. Too many holes in the plot. Why would the grandmother be so heartless as to begin the custody fight just before Christmas? Also, it would take weeks or months to get a hearing date-you wouldn't get one right away. Why couldn't Stephanie just tell her grandmother she wanted to stay with Archie (I think she does in part 2) and avoid the stupid court fight. I'm sure a compromise like Stephanie staying with her grandmother once a month or so could be worked out.

Also, if this is the first Christmas after Edith's death, then why isn't Archie spending it with Gloria and Joey (and the meathead, who has not yet run off to the commune). I know Rob and Sally didn't want to appear, but why couldn't Archie and Stephanie go to California (off screen) to spend Christmas together. Archie surely could have gotten a few days off from the bar and there was no restraining order to keep from taking Stephanie with him.

At least we got to see Mrs. Canby. Too bad we won't see more of her unless TVL airs all the episodes.

Yesterday I noticed a major flaw when Mrs. Canby said she was making ham and potato salad to celebrate a potential win by Archie in court. Ham is not kosher and Stephanie and Murray are both Jewish...