I was just wondering how they wrote Murray off the show, since TV Land only plays the early episodes and occasionally a later one here and there. Also, I'm wondering why he left the show in real life. I was watching the movie Cape Fear the other day and noticed he was playing a judge. I think he died a few years after that. I wish TV Land and N@N would just play EVERY EPISODE of all the shows they acquire. Its so frustrating!
:mad:

Originally posted by Smokin' Sods
. I wish TV Land and N@N would just play EVERY EPISODE of all the shows they acquire. Its so frustrating!
:mad:

Ditto-

Murray decided to remarry and then his mother died. He then put his remarriage plans on hold while he dealt with his feelings over his mother's death. In the meantime, his fiance took a new job in San Francisco. Murray then decided to remarry after all but in order for them to be together he had to move also. He remained half owner of the bar and Gary Rubinowitz (played by Barry Gordon) joined the show as an accountant hired to look after Murray's share of the bar. Martin Balsam returned for one guest appearance in the last season.

Interesting. Thanks, Jon. Would you happen to know why Martin Balsam left the show in real life? Did he leave on his own, or did the writers want a change?

Martin Balsam was tired of his limited role in the series and also Carroll wanted to bring some younger characters in so Martin left by mutual agreement. They tried to get Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers (Mike and Gloria) to return but Rob didn't want to. Sally returned for just one episode of ABP and then went to her own show Gloria. Thus Denise Miller and Barry Gordon joined the cast.

Originally posted by jon123
Martin Balsam was tired of his limited role in the series and also Carroll wanted to bring some younger characters in so Martin left by mutual agreement. They tried to get Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers (Mike and Gloria) to return but Rob didn't want to. Sally returned for just one episode of ABP and then went to her own show Gloria. Thus Denise Miller and Barry Gordon joined the cast.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering why Martin left too. So do you guys think they made a good decision when they brought Denise and Barry on board, or do you think they should've kept Martin?

I can't really make a concrete decision since I haven't seen every ep, but if that last episode was similar to everything after the Murray years- I'd say they were better off keeping Murray. jmo

My feelings are mixed on that. They needed to bring in younger characters since they already had Harry,Barney, Van Ranseleer and Veronica (who also left in the last season). The episodes that concentrated on Billie/Gary relationship were lousy. There were some better episodes in the last season such as when Archie found marijuana and threw Billie out only later to find out it belonged to Stephanie. Unfortuneately, thanks to TV Land, we may never get to see them.

I always felt what they should have done was bring Gloria back as a regular instead of her having her own show. She could move back in with Archie with the promise that Archie would not interfere with her personal life (which he wouldn't do, of course, setting up comical moments). The focus of the show could then have shifted back to the Bunker home and the bar would once again be a secondary location(which worked out better on AITF).
As it was, when CBS wanted a new production team on "Gloria", Carroll refused to make guest appearances. That meant no episodes on either ABP or Gloria that should Archie and Gloria together. I think that disappointed the audience and led to the cancellation of both shows that year.

Originally posted by jon123
My feelings are mixed on that. They needed to bring in younger characters since they already had Harry,Barney, Van Ranseleer and Veronica (who also left in the last season). The episodes that concentrated on Billie/Gary relationship were lousy. There were some better episodes in the last season such as when Archie found marijuana and threw Billie out only later to find out it belonged to Stephanie. Unfortuneately, thanks to TV Land, we may never get to see them.

I always felt what they should have done was bring Gloria back as a regular instead of her having her own show. She could move back in with Archie with the promise that Archie would not interfere with her personal life (which he wouldn't do, of course, setting up comical moments). The focus of the show could then have shifted back to the Bunker home and the bar would once again be a secondary location(which worked out better on AITF).
As it was, when CBS wanted a new production team on "Gloria", Carroll refused to make guest appearances. That meant no episodes on either ABP or Gloria that should Archie and Gloria together. I think that disappointed the audience and led to the cancellation of both shows that year.

Oh yeah, I wanted to see that marijuana episode.

You know, I've been sitting here thinking about Nick @ Nite. I'm sure a bunch of us are still a bit angry they are showing newer shows and are showing the ones that were rerun to death. You know, I wouldn't really mind them showing 80s shows if they picked up shows that are hardly shown. ABP, and the New Leave it to Beaver are two shows that I'd love to see all the way through. I'd like to see Gloria too. That would be neat if they did that instead of showing the shows they rerun to death now.

I agree. Actually, I never liked the Cosby Show to begin with, I thought it was boring and not very funny. I liked Cheers but felt it ran too long and was not as good after Coach died and Diane left. NAN is down to just Cosby, Cheers, and Coach in its prime time now. The least they could do is stop the double takes and add or bring back more shows.

Originally posted by jon123
I agree. Actually, I never liked the Cosby Show to begin with, I thought it was boring and not very funny. I liked Cheers but felt it ran too long and was not as good after Coach died and Diane left. NAN is down to just Cosby, Cheers, and Coach in its prime time now. The least they could do is stop the double takes and add or bring back more shows.

I'm not a big Cosby Show fan either. Most channels are screwing up pretty badly, imo. I was talking to a friend about this very subject the other day. Name all the stations that you are really and truly satisfied with. I can't think of one station that I really and truly like every show. If we were talking about N @ N and TVL a few years back, I'd say those were two stations that I'm satisfied with. Not anymore. I only watch All in the Family on N @ N. I watch Beaver (sometimes) and ABP on TVL. I used to be able to sit and watch those channels all day and night long. It's funny that it changed so quickly.

Another channel I'm really getting disgusted with is Scifi. I don't know what their problem is now. It might be just a holiday schedule, but this was happening even before the holiday schedule even started. I used to watch Star Trek: TOS at 6 p.m. Right after ST went off, they'd have like 3 or 4 hours of the X- Files. I'm talking 4 hours back to back to back to back. No breaks. They've yanked ST off the schedule now. TZ is hardly on anymore. I know they'll be having that big TZ marathon on New Years, maybe that's when TZ will be coming back regularly. Unfortunately, I think ST is gone. I don't even have that many eps taped.

I could really go on an on about these channels that I hate. I could mention MTV and VH1. Both have lost it's concept. Music TeleVision? Not anymore. I only see videos from like 3 to 7 in the morning. VH1 is starting to air MTV's old stuff. If VH1 started airing Beavis and Butthead, I'd pretty happy. I'd love to get B & B on tape.

To put it in simple terms, N @ N and TVL aren't the only ones that show favoritism toward one or two shows.

Jon, you really know your stuff! Thanks for all the information! Jenny, good input from you too! I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I could do without Cosby and Cheers myself. I'd like to see some lesser-known shows get some airtime on N@N & TV Land like "Its Your Move" and "Mr. Belvedere." And "The New Leave It To Beaver," which was already mentioned. "Valerie (The Hogan Family)" would be cool to see again too. Man, I could think of so many more. As I said before, the very least N@N, TV Land, and TNN could do is play EVERY EPISODE at least once of the shows they acquire. N@N won't even play the first or last SEASONS on Charles In Charge, for example. Not the greatest show, but I'd still like to see the original family again after all these years. Oh well, the networks may never get it right, but we'll always have the memories and discussions.
:)

Originally posted by Jenny

I know they'll be having that big TZ marathon on New Years, maybe that's when TZ will be coming back regularly. Unfortunately, I think ST is gone. I don't even have that many eps taped.


Nope, Star Trek isn't returning to Sci Fi according to their January schedule on their site. TZ returns back to regular timeslots though.

Erm to keep my post on topic: What was the explanation for Veronica leaving? Does anyone know why Ann Meara left?

I was looking through an old TV Guide from the early 80s, and there was a description for an ABP episode. It was the one about Veronica drinking. I wish TV Land would air that episode. *Sighs* At least they're airing the show.

While I only sporadically watch the show on TV LAND< your claim that Martin Balsam was tired of his limited role sounds strange. He was in nearly as many scenes as O'Connor was. I think really what happened was when it was decided to make Denise Miller a regular and make the plots even more about Stephanie (who BTW was always a cute kid and great part of the show) Balsam felt his role was ABOUT to be diminshed a lot and then he decided to jump ship while still one of two central characters. Jon, maybe you're quoting information accurately on the subject of Balsam's departure from ABP, but if you are your info was obviously wrong!

Originally posted by Nedrta
While I only sporadically watch the show on TV LAND< your claim that Martin Balsam was tired of his limited role sounds strange. He was in nearly as many scenes as O'Connor was. I think really what happened was when it was decided to make Denise Miller a regular and make the plots even more about Stephanie (who BTW was always a cute kid and great part of the show) Balsam felt his role was ABOUT to be diminshed a lot and then he decided to jump ship while still one of two central characters. Jon, maybe you're quoting information accurately on the subject of Balsam's departure from ABP, but if you are your info was obviously wrong!

TV Land only airs the first season and three season two episodes (it will be five starting in January), so his role could've diminished in the second season. The Martin Balsam information can be found on the All in the Family page on Sitcoms Online.

Actually my quote that Martin Balsam was tired of his limited role in the series was stolen directly from The Encyclopedia of Network TV shows. I only steal quotes from reliable sources! I do believe that in later episodes that we have not seen in TV land his role did become smaller, or there was just not much more that he could do with his character. I think Denise Miller joined the cast after Martin's departure, there would not have been room for both of them. As it was, there were just too many regulars on the show which also led to the departure of Veronica and Mrs. Canby for the last season.

That Denise Miller did a pretty good job on ABP.Like O'Connor's character hers was kinda strong too.

Yeah, I thought the strongest characters were Archie, Murray, Stephanie, Barney, and Billie.
-Kristi

Thanks for the info. I was wondering why Martin left too. So do you guys think they made a good decision when they brought Denise and Barry on board, or do you think they should've kept Martin?

I can't really make a concrete decision since I haven't seen every ep, but if that last episode was similar to everything after the Murray years- I'd say they were better off keeping Murray. jmo

Archie and Murray were envisioned as being 1 and 1A on ABP. But the Murray character really never found consistent footing and was relegated to being 2nd banana. And by the second season he probably slipped to 3rd behind a lovely and suddenly grown up Danielle Brisebois. Even though I also wish he would have stayed it's no surprise Martin Balsam's days on the show were numbered.