If you were given two choices and it was only allowed for you to take only one of those choices - - - which would you choose? Well, here's the question: Which would you rather own: The legendary I Love Lucy along with The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour OR The Lucy Show & Here's Lucy along with Life With Lucy. Think about it for minute. For some, "I Love Lucy" showcases the very best of Lucille Ball while her later series (after 1960) combined give you more episodes to enjoy. The amount of episodes come down to this: ILL/TLDCH- 194 episodes, TLS/HL/LWL- 313 episodes. The amount of quality comes down to this: ILL/TLDCH- Good, TLS/HL/LWL: Fair. Which is it: A double dose of Lucy with fair quality or a limited dose of Lucy with good quality? The choice is yours. YOU decide. :)

I guess my vote depends on whether or not I get to keep all my tapes that have all the "I Love Lucy" and LDCH's on them. If I do, then I would definatly take her later work, since I haven't seen any of her other shows. If I couldn't keep my tapes I would take ILL and LDCH, shows that I already know are great.

Definitely her earlier work. I'm not really a fan of her later stuff.

This would be a tough decision. I Love Lucy is the probably the greatest show of all time(including the 13 Desi-Lucy Specials). That's not saying The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy weren't good shows in their own right. The first 3 seasons of The Lucy Show, especially the first, was really good. Here's Lucy was also good for the most part throughout the first 4 seasons. I think the "Lucy Meets the Burtons" episodes could be one of Lucy's greatest episodes and performances of all-time. Life with Lucy was just a mistake and not that good. I guess in the end I would have to say her later shows just because they aren't continuosly shown on t.v. like I Love Lucy and thus I'm not able to watch them all the time.

This is my first time posting anything on this message on I love Lucy. But I read it all the time. I definitey love her earlier work the best. I always watch her shows when they are on.


God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!
:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

The earlier work. After Desi she was often misguided. Still capable of doing some wonderful comedy, but the situations became more absurd and her character became kooky. Lucy Ricardo was not dumb it took a lot of ingenuity to do some of the things she did.

I've only ever seen a couple of episodes from the later series, and to be honest they didn't really make me laugh at all; but that aside there's no choice to make, really. I've always been more of a Desi Arnaz fan than a Lucy one. Makes me a bit biased I suppose!

:wave:

Ok, well the guys brought up an interesting point, we know her earlier stuff is much better, but we want to see the later shows so bad that it makes us give up the earlier stuff which in some cases we've memorized to see the stuff we so long to see of her later years, might not be as good, but it's still Lucy!

The only show that I really liked that Lucy starred in was I Love Lucy. I never really cared for The Lucy Show or any of those others.

Well I for one would love to own her Life with Lucy series, although it would be nice to own Hee's Lucy too I like her later stuff the most I think.

My vote is for the earlier stuff. In my opinion, Lucille Ball's best work was when she was acting with Desi. It was never the same without him.

I would much rather have her earlier work. Like some others have already said, she was at her best when she was working with Desi. :D

I think Splain said it nicely. Yes, I Love Lucy is better than the other shows but it hasn't been off the air since 1951 and never will be!! So we can watch it all the time and probably have been watching it all the time. Her later shows aren't shown as much, The Lucy Show not since NickatNite took it off the air in 1996 and Here's Lucy not since PAX took it off in 1999. Plus nobody knows when these shows will return to t.v. Hallmark was going to bring back The Lucy Show in January but that fell through. By choosing her later shows you can watch both I Love Lucy and the later shows and will thus have the best of both worlds!

Originally posted by Mickey
I've always been more of a Desi Arnaz fan than a Lucy one. Makes me a bit biased I suppose!

:wave:

I think you're the first person I've talked to that likes Desi more than Lucy. That's cool! :cool:

Sometimes I think I'm the only one! But he was a cool guy, and even Bob Hope, probably the greatest comedian ever, was impressed by his comic timing. Then there's that amazing voice - A shouter, yes, but no microphone. These days everybodys' singing is dubbed on later to make up for bad acoustics, whereas Desi just went for it. And besides, anybody who plays drums like that...!

Actually I always found Dino funnier than Jerry Lewis as well, and Ernie Wise funnier than Eric Morecambe. Go figure.

http://freespace.virgin.net/xenon.swordznsorcery/image11.jpg

Desi Arnaz - Very Cool Person :wave:

I love Desi too!!! I never thought he received enough recognition. I love his music too.

While i certainly agree that the show would not be the hit it is after 50 years if Richard Denning had played her husband, i too am shocked to hear someone say they love Desi more than Lucy, they certainly were great together and her material later on might not have been as good, but having been I Love Lucy'd to death, i just would like to see her other shows more often, just to break the monotony! It's a classic all right, the only TV show inducted into the TV Hall of fame, but her later work though not as great is still Lucy and that's good enough for me. I just got the first 50 Lucy shows and am getting such fond memories remembering them and i look forward to getting my next 100 and then i'll tackle the Here's Lucy shows, they all have something great about them, and they're not as familiar as the classic, but they all have one thing in common, they all starred the greatest TV comic of all time. Old shows, did you ever think of going on other Lucy boards so we can discuss more subjects, i tried PM's and e mails, but you don't want any, i'd love to have more things to discuss with many of you, but there isn't much action lately on these boards!

Why shocked? After all, we're all different! Whilst I do have a passing interest in Lucy's later TV work, what I've seen of it so far hasn't impressed me - and besides, you lot might get to see ILL all the time, but I certainly don't! It was Desi's input that made the show for me, and I prefer him as an entertainer, and therefore have more interest in ILL than in the later shows. Incidentally I finally got to see his episode of 'Ironside' about a year ago, and it was so good. Made in 1973 I think. Meaning no disrespect to Lucy, anyway, but I like Desi better!

:wave:

Nobody's denying that he was a genius behind the scenes, he was! And the singing, great! As a father of two kids, fantastic, i always loved the story where he took the kids by the hand to go watch a sunset. Saw him Friday night in Francis Ford Coppola's The Escape Artist, can't believe it was a short four years before he died. I consider myself one of Lucy's biggest fans, but truth be told, i'd be the first to admit that if i had met the two of them, i probably would have been friends with him more than with her, if she had talked to me the way she talked to most people, i might have killed her, whereas he was so into living and enjoying life which i admire, he retired to enjoy the remainder of his life, which is admirable, had a great relationship with his kids, unfortunately, i go through money like he did! Bought that new video, Babalu music and listening to it, it all came back to me what a great voice he had, and that music was to die for, but Desi would be the first to tell you that without Lucy there would have been no show, he gave her 90 percent of the credit and split the rest between himself and the rest of the cast and crew. Lucie Arnaz is always trying to get recognition for her dad, not just her mom, seems she's succeeded with you, nice to hear Desi is finally appreciated after all these years!

Yeah, I'm with you Mickey. I don't like Lucy any more than I like Desi. They're both the best!

Always loved the story that the morning of his funeral some schoolchildren wondered who the famous person was that died because there were cameras there, and when they were told it was the man that portrayed Ricky Ricardo, these small kids got sad as they all knew him!

Jumping in on this Desi thing, I absolutely agree Desi was a great actor and really helped add to the show on stage. And he was absolutely the backbone of the show behind the scenes. He made sure everybody was happy, everything ran smoothly, and always gave the writers good constructive criticism that helped produce the great scripts. Lucy would miss this help in her later shows. I do go on the TVLand message boards occasionally. They have a couple of Lucy boards. Things are mostly dull over there. I tried to get a movement started to get TVLand to air The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy as I did on here.

Originally posted by Mickey
Sometimes I think I'm the only one! But he was a cool guy, and even Bob Hope, probably the greatest comedian ever, was impressed by his comic timing. Then there's that amazing voice - A shouter, yes, but no microphone. These days everybodys' singing is dubbed on later to make up for bad acoustics, whereas Desi just went for it. And besides, anybody who plays drums like that...!

Actually I always found Dino funnier than Jerry Lewis as well, and Ernie Wise funnier than Eric Morecambe. Go figure.


I'm probably an odd ball too. My list of favorite actors far outweighs the actresses and most of them are retired or dead.

Originally posted by Mickey
Incidentally I finally got to see his episode of 'Ironside' about a year ago, and it was so good. Made in 1973 I think.

:wave:

He was on an ep of Ironsides? Cool! :cool:

Not that I've even seen an episode of that, but I love 70s TV and guest appearances are awesome! Yes SPLAIN, especially the ones with Richard. :D

Have any of you seen Desi's Alice appearance? Interesting. He looks old and it was in 78.

Well his hair was completely white in Ironside, and I suppose he did look quite old. Very healthy and happy though. He played a doctor who suspects that a death he's called to confirm is murder, so he refuses to sign the death certificate. He's friends with Ironside (naturally) who just happens to be visiting with his deputy, Ed Brown, so they solve the case together. Desi's character brews his own alcohol, which is all peculiar colours (green bourbon!), and has a thing for powerful banana cocktails. He's playing to type really, I suppose, with a lot of jokes about drinking a lot, and his enthusiasm is infectious, as always! Don't think I've heard of Alice.

:wave:

Alice was written by Bob and Madelyn and was a huge hit that ran for nine years, it was based on the film Alice doesn't live here anymore with Ellen Burstyn.

Wow. That sounds like a cool episode! I'll have to see if I can get my hands on it. Ebay's great for that sort of thing. :)

I think that I would rather have the ILL and LDCH's than the other ones. I liked the later one well, the only ones i have seen were most of The Lucy Show and I have them on DVD :D . I would like to have seen Here's Lucy even though it was really bad. I would have liked to have seen her final shows.
But I agree with You ppl, Desi was a fenominal entertainer he just went out there and did his thing. He was also very smart off camera and he was not really recognized before. Whenever he would perform in a nightclub and Lucy came to watch, her being there would be in the news and not Desi's appearance. :crazy:

How can you say Here's Lucy was really bad if you have never saw it? And no it wasn't really bad. Yes there were some bad episodes during the series but overall the series was fairly good, not I Love Lucy good but still fairly good. The best episodes of Here's Lucy, for example "Lucy Meets the Burtons", can most definately hold there own against I Love Lucy's best.

Originally posted by Mickey
Well his hair was completely white in Ironside, and I suppose he did look quite old. Very healthy and happy though.


Yeah, it is so strange seeing him with white hair, because it is the complete opposite of what we are used to. He actually started getting that white hair when he was in his twenties, possibly from all the stress of his late teens (losing everything and coming over to the US). He had to color it black, and sometimes during the ILL episodes, you can see some white hair on him.

You can see the white a lot in the 'lost' pilot, when they weren't paying so much attention to make-up. Going white early isn't necessarily to do with stress though, although I agree he had plenty of that! People with black hair do often start going grey or white earlier. I speak from personal experience!

:wave:

Yeah, i too love it when people who've never seen the Here's Lucy shows assume they're bad because that's what been said all these years. Some Here's Lucy shows were good, some great and some bad just like ILL and any other series. Ever see Drafted? Even Life with Lucy which has received reviews that make the ones she got for Mame look good, had some good shows in there, some that even are worth seing today and better than some of the garbage that passes for entertainment these days!

Exactly Splain! The only reason everyone says Here's Lucy is bad is because they expected her to produce another I Love Lucy. Well, that's hard to. I mean ILL is the greatest show ever made. Exactly how many times can you make the greatest show ever? Once. Everyone just needs to take her other shows for what they are, pretty good show in their own right. I bet if we could remove ILL from everyone's minds and put Here's Lucy on the air everyone would love it. And please, make sure you've watched something before you place judgment on it. I couldn't tell you if sushi is bad. I've never tried it before.

Sushi is wonderful. It's the only thing I miss since turning vegetarian three years ago. :)

As for Here's Lucy, I'd dispute that we'd all like it just as much if we'd never seen ILL. Maybe it would stand better on its own, yes, but for those of us who are outright Desi fans, no it wouldn't be as good. It didn't have something which ILL did have, and it's hard to identify just what that thing was. Lucille Ball was one of the most talented physical comedians in the world (and I'm not saying 'comediennes' because that suggests she's only one of the best women - she's not, she's one of the best ever). However at the end of the day, a true success needs that little bit more than her clowning around. It needs something else, and ILL had that. Maybe that was Desi, maybe it was Fred - hell, maybe it was that set, I don't know. But it had something. You're right in calling us all to make sure we've seen the show we're knocking, and I haven't seen much of Here's Lucy. A handful of episodes doesn't count for much. However half an episode of ILL watched accidentally was enough to turn me into a fan for life, and I can't say the same about Here's Lucy.

:wave:

PS - And I like "Drafted"!

:wave:

Anybody that knows me on these boards knows that i always pick on Drafted, it's our little inside joke! It's not that bad, but it certainly is not one of the better episodes of the series. The Lucy show suffered because Lucy no longer had the husband figure to deal with, i am going to offend many here by saying i NEVER liked Gale Gordon back then. I wrote her a fan letter telling her that Gary should be on as her boyfriend and later husband, but back then that was like attacking the POPE, and all of the Gary haters are going to get me for that one. Since then of course, i've come to like Gale and all the other supporting players on her shows, but it was Lucy i LOVED! As for Here's Lucy, what you said was absolutely right, there were high expectations with the show, it was 1968, and the idea of Lucy bridging the generation gap at that time of history and with her own kids on the show was the best idea ever. Unfortunately the producer (Gary) was no Desi, and the writers were out of ideas and the new writers had no continuity whatsoever and wrote jokes instead of comedic situations, in other hands, the show might have been better. I'll just add that recently i was able to get 50 Lucy shows, the next 106 are coming soon i hope, my point is i had forgotten how gresat some of these shows were and just seing her in color was a thrill, some of the shows like the antenna, the shower stilts, skates etc were classics just like the grapes and chocolates on ILL and i think that when i get the Here's Lucy shows also, i will have the same feeling, i haven't seen them in years but i do remember them, but when i get to see them all for the first time in so long, i will sy to myself the same thing i said when i saw the Lucy shows, WHAT WAS I THINKING? These shows are great because they star Lucy, i'm a Lucy fan and think that she's great in every one of those almost 500 episodes, and the more i am reminded of those shows on these boards, the more i lookk forward to seing every single last one of them, even that equivalent to Drafted, on Here's Lucy, Lucy and the monkey!

As a kid I would watch "Here's Lucy" every Monday night and enjoyed them as much as ILL. When I got older and saw reruns I noticed how hard everyone tried on that show instead of letting things run rhythmatically. Everyone was mugging, everyone was talking loudly, the gags were not as inventive, the situations were not as plausible, and Lucy was more scatterbrained. I've said it before, but Lucy Ricardo was not dumb--at times I wondered about Lucy Carter. That said, yes there are some good episodes of Here's Lucy. And I would agree that the show was better than some of the junk they present as comedy today. I think working with her kids revived Lucy a little bit after the mediocre final seasons of the Lucy Show. I like Gale Gordon but he was basically one note too. The big problem was that after Desi left the scene Lucy didn't have anyone strong enough to tell her "NO!" that won't work...The second problem came after Viv left and she didn't have a strong female friend backing her up in her wild schemes...Didn't have the bond/ the history that Viv had with her. Mary Jane is ok, but no replacement for Viv. The first three seasons of the Lucy Show are strongest becuz 1) Desi helped create the show and supervised the first 8 episodes before he left. and 2) Viv was there and in some ways her character was stronger than it was as Ethel...she stood up to Lucy more...becuz in a sence she was still Lucy's sidekick in chaos, but she also assumed some of Desi's duties on screen.

I didn't mean to imply everyone would like it. I just meant that the hardcore Lucy fans would appreciate it more. Yes, it would stand better on its own or being compared to today's show but it certainly doesn't work that way when compared to ILL. That's why I try not to compare shows. I just take each show one by one and when doing that I've come to the decision Here's Lucy is a fairly good show, pretty funny, and a few really great episodes, some good ones, and a few bad ones like every show does.

I agree with you Buddy Love. Yes, Lucy Carter was not Lucy Ricardo. The scripts and Here's Lucy certainly wasn't that of ILL or the first 3 seasons of TLS. Desi really was the brains behind the operation, made sure everything went well, and was a masterful script editor.

The best part of Here's Lucy was the kids...especially Desi Jr. Eye candy, you know? ;) I'm such a girl.

Yeah, the addition of Lucie and Desi Jr. helped make Here's Lucy better than the pretty average last 3 seasons of The Lucy Show.

Originally posted by oldshows
Yeah, the addition of Lucie and Desi Jr. helped make Here's Lucy better than the pretty average last 3 seasons of The Lucy Show.

I see nothing wrong with the last three seasons of The Lucy Show. Although, they could have been funnier . . . the plots were usually good and in fact entertaining. And it was nice for a change to see Lucy doing other things as well and exploring new territories that was unknown to her. Get what I am saying?

I'm not saying the last 3 seasons of The Lucy Show are bad, but I don't think they compare to the first 3 seasons. Yes, it is nice to see Lucy do something new every now and then but the scripts on the whole just weren't up to the first 3 seasons and without Vivian things just didn't go as well.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
The best part of Here's Lucy was the kids...especially Desi Jr. Eye candy, you know? ;) I'm such a girl.

Dawsongirl.......................;)

Anyway, I say earlier. I've seen Lucy Show before but I didn't laugh half as much as I did with ILL.

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Dawsongirl.......................;)



:D

Originally posted by LucyFan


I see nothing wrong with the last three seasons of The Lucy Show. Although, they could have been funnier . . . the plots were usually good and in fact entertaining. And it was nice for a change to see Lucy doing other things as well and exploring new territories that was unknown to her. Get what I am saying?

I think the last three seasons of The Lucy Show, for the most part, were plain boring. Occasionally it could be funny, but not often. Sometimes the plots were ridiculously stupid with Lucy constantly coincidentally running into Mr. Mooney in the most unlikely of places. At this point in the series, Lucy seemed to have no purpose anymore. She had no kids to take care of, no clubs or activities that she regularly participated in (like the Women's Volunteer Fire Department or the Wednesday Afternoon Fine Arts League), no real best friend like Viv to experience the ups and downs of life with (Lucy's relationship with Mary Jane seemed very hollow and meaningless and not at all geniune), no regular friends to hang out with like Flo, the manicurist or Audrey Simmons, and no romantic interest like Harry Connors that ever lasted more than a single episode (the two-episode fling with Clint Walker, who was some 17 years Lucy's junior, doesn't count because it completely lacked credibility). Everything that had made Lucy Carmichael seem like a real person before with a real life was stripped away, and in its place came all these contrived plots that had movie stars walking into Lucy's living room, or Lucy suddenly getting deeply involved in the lives of complete strangers. The first three seasons of Here's Lucy put back at least a couple of those elements that had made her character seem real and somewhat believable and therefore brought a little more credibility to the plots. But once Desi Jr. was gone from the cast, it reverted back to that lousy later Lucy Show formula (except for those episodes written by Bob and Madelyn).

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks Jane!

Yea, ya hit the nail right on the head Jane. ;)

Thank you, Old Shows and Original Prankster. Apparently you know exactly what I'm talking about. Another problem I forgot to mention is Lucy Carmichael's obvious personality change in many of the later episodes. She went from being smart and shrewd to being a Gracie Allen type clueless idiot. And then there were those impossibly far-fetched episodes like the one where they had, underneath the bank, a gorilla, a tribe of Indians, piranhas, and quicksand to guard Jack Benny's money. And apparently this was all bank secretary Lucy Carmichael's idea. Please.

You're trying to make me miss you less, right? Seriously, you've made VERY good points as always, you invariably hit the nail right on the head, BUT, it's a TV show, with a character that lasted in various forms for 23 years. They ran out of ideas, look at Frasier, played the same character on Cheers and now i can barely watch anymore, love the character, but it's always the same thing, it gets monotonous after a while. Let's face it, the key thing was the writing and the executive producer, that's what caused the decline in the shows. But if she was that bad, why did she win two Emmy awards for the last two seasons of The Lucy show? And the Jack Benny show with the underground vault was FUNNY, it was a comedy show, it wasn't real, you had to laugh at two comedy giants rising above dismal material, that's what i did and i loved it. If i had wanted reality, i would have watched the news!

Why did she win 2 Emmy's. Well, exactly what was on t.v. that was any good during the late 60s. Declining Andy Griffith and Beverly Hillibilles shows. Really not too much else that was any good. She won by default. And I think the point were trying to make is she ruined the plot by deciding to continue on after Viv left. She should have went to a whole new show and format. When she did with Here's Lucy in 1968, it was so much better than the last 3 seasons of TLS. She actually had a purpose, a family, and a reason for living which added credibility to the plot and made things more interesting and overall better. Lucy Ricardo and originally Lucy Carmichael were zany but not stupid. There at the end Lucy Carmichael was stupid. It was until Lucy Carter came in that Lucy lost that stupidity, at least until Desi Jr left Here's Lucy.

She might also have won through people's fondness for her. We have these two actors in Britain who keep winning best actor awards in everything, and the last five, six years or so their performances have become so tired and cliched it's become boring to the extreme. They always win though, time after time, because everybody likes them, because they've been around a long time, and everybody remembers when they were very good. Sometimes that's how awards work.

:wave:

I would definatly pick I love Lucy, and TLDCH :O). I like The Lucy show, but it wouldnt be the same without the famous Fred & Ethel .. hehe!

Originally posted by oldshows
Why did she win 2 Emmy's. Well, exactly what was on t.v. that was any good during the late 60s. Declining Andy Griffith and Beverly Hillibilles shows. Really not too much else that was any good. She won by default.

*ducking* I agree. :o

Who was her competition?

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Another problem I forgot to mention is Lucy Carmichael's obvious personality change in many of the later episodes. She went from being smart and shrewd to being a Gracie Allen type clueless idiot. And then there were those impossibly far-fetched episodes like the one where they had, underneath the bank, a gorilla, a tribe of Indians, piranhas, and quicksand to guard Jack Benny's money. And apparently this was all bank secretary Lucy Carmichael's idea. Please.

Ugh...I hate idiotic characters. I just hate them.

I'm also turning into a dramatic realist (meaning I've been watching too many dramas that have no far-fetched elements in them) and idiotic comedy grates on my nerves. I swear that's all TLS and HL were. :p

It's amazing to me what comments i will tolerate from people i like or whose opinions i respect, and seriously, i do love these discussions or i wouldn't be here, BBBBBBUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTT, Lucy winning by default? You people have got to be kidding! She won four Emmy awards in competition, 2 for ILL and 2 for the Lucy show, people tuned in to see the Queen of comedy, even if the scripts stank, she was there, same as Hope with his specials, they were part of the landscape, or better still part of the family. It didn't matter if the material was terrible! It's the opposite, back then there were very few awards shows, if Lucy were around these days, she'd get one every month, that's why the show only got 5 while Frasier has more than any other show ever, there are more catagories now too. Lucy was once nominated for playing herself, and many times against supporting players like Agnes Moorehead, none of it makes sense, and yes, the Emmy awards have never made sense, same as the Oscars they are for the ones that play the game, and they are often given to undeserving people while some giants like Gleason never got one. This is a very interesting subject and as soon as i take some blood pressure pills, i'll be back to add more comments!

Now now. Take deep breaths! :)

Awards are damn silly though. You should see the trash that wins the National TV Awards in Britain every year. Acting so bad it'd make you cry. The awards voted for by the public are even worse. They see 'Best Actor' and interpret it as 'Actor I Fancy The Most'. The Oscars are all about politics though, and other things. Always have been. Mind you, I'm still annoyed that Ben Kingsley won best actor in '82 for Gandhi (bad film) when Jack Lemmon should have won it for Missing!

:wave:

Good God, you and i can't agree on anything! I think Missing is one of the best films ever and Jack Lemmon has always been my favorite dramatic actor, HOWEVER, i wanted Dustin Hoffman to win for Tootsie that year. They had this rule here that you could see who deserved the Oscar by having the 5 actors play the five roles, so i can see Dustin doing Gandhi, but i can't for the life of me see Ben doing Tootsie, the solution would be best dramatic performance and best comedic performance, this way, even Lucy might have had a chance at an Oscar! By the way, i totally agree that Liz Taylor's work with Aids charities cancels all the bad things she may have ever done, i admire her for that!

Originally posted by dawsongirl


Ugh...I hate idiotic characters. I just hate them.

I'm also turning into a dramatic realist (meaning I've been watching too many dramas that have no far-fetched elements in them) and idiotic comedy grates on my nerves. I swear that's all TLS and HL were. :p

Well, not all of TLS and HL. TLS did have an excellent first season, a very good second season, and a fairly good third season with most episodes around a logical premise. It's not until seasons 4-6 that things went bad. And as for HL, most of the episodes for the first 3 seasons had fairly believable premises. It wasn't until season 4 and especially season 5 where things reverted back to being like seasons 4-6 of TLS.

And Splain, I'm not saying Lucy did a bad job acting those last few years of TLS or her acting was such that it was absurd to even consider her for an Emmy. She had such talent that she could make a stupid character incrediability stupid. And I think this worked against her. It made the final years of TLS(and the final years of HL) even more stupid than the writers had them and really stupid isn't great t.v.

And like it was said earlier, those awards really don't matter. Even if Lucy never won any awards, she would still be just a popular and her shows would still be just as good.

Originally posted by dawsongirl


*ducking* I agree. :o

Who was her competition?

Sally Field as the Flying Nun.

Originally posted by dawsongirl

idiotic comedy grates on my nerves. I swear that's all TLS and HL were. :p

Well, that's not ALL TLS and HL were. TLS actually started on a really high note, some of Lucille Ball's best work, IMO. And I prefer Vivian Vance's work on TLS (in the first season) to her work on ILL. But when TLS started going downhill, it really went downhill. Fast.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
You're trying to make me miss you less, right?


Yes, I love you, too, Claude.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Seriously, you've made VERY good points as always, you invariably hit the nail right on the head, BUT, it's a TV show, with a character that lasted in various forms for 23 years.

And Archie Bunker lasted 13 seasons on CBS, but by the last several years (on Archie Bunker's Place) the show sucked.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
They ran out of ideas, look at Frasier, played the same character on Cheers and now i can barely watch anymore, love the character, but it's always the same thing, it gets monotonous after a while.

I don't think it's so much that they ran out of ideas than that it was destroyed by taking away element that had made it work so well before.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Let's face it, the key thing was the writing and the executive producer, that's what caused the decline in the shows.

Lucille Ball was the executive producer, who was stubborn and wouldn't listen to anyone's advice. If anyone didn't fall in line and do as Sgt. Lucy instructed, no matter how wrong she might have been, they would be fired.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
But if she was that bad, why did she win two Emmy awards for the last two seasons of The Lucy show? And the Jack Benny show with the underground vault was FUNNY, it was a comedy show, it wasn't real, you had to laugh at two comedy giants rising above dismal material, that's what i did and i loved it. If i had wanted reality, i would have watched the news!

Sorry, but I'm with Kathleen Brady on this one. That Benny episode was horrible. I never found any of it funny. You know, they did a lot of outlandish things on I Love Lucy, but the scripts were (usually) written in such a way that you could believe what was going on. There was still a basis in reality. But who the hell can believe that way beneath this bank in Los Angeles was a creek teaming with piranhas, and a tribe of Indians, and a gorilla standing guard (ugh!), and quicksand. That is just plain stupid. Desi would have NEVER okayed a script like that.

Originally posted by Mickey
She might also have won through people's fondness for her. :wave:

Like the year Liz Taylor became a widow and then won an Oscar, or last year when Julia Roberts won an Oscar for Erin Brokovich because of her "body of work" preceding that film that hadn't been recognized (Ellen Burstyn, who already had an Oscar, deserved that award for her incredible performance in Requiem for a Dream.

Lucille Ball was the executive producer, who was stubborn and wouldn't listen to anyone's advice. If anyone didn't fall in line and do as Sgt. Lucy instructed, no matter how wrong she might have been, they would be fired.

Sounds more like Dictator Lucy. Sorry Claude.

It's ok guys, i can take it, if it's an intelligent constructive discussion, which it is. I always wondered why she won the Emmy those two years, 66 and 67, i think by then she had become an institution, stay away from the wisecracks with that line, and they finally realized that she was an intelligent woman playing a dumb character, after all she was running Desilu and was in the papers trying to sell it. I think they saw that she wasn't Lucy Ricardo or Carmichael after all, she was this efficient businesswoman, no nonsense tough talking broad who was totallyu opposite of the character she played. Many things to cover here, Jane Darlin, if you loved her performance in Requiem for a dream, do you have a DVD player, i will gladly send you the DVD, the movie is so hard to watch, it was one of my least favorites even though Ellen gave the performance of her career, but the film is terrible. DawsongirlDiva, what's wrong with stupid characters on TV, the current favorite Joey onFriends is so popular, they want to give him his own show. With stupid characters, they are usually so lovable, we want to watch them forever, maybe because we feel superior to them, i dunno! HOW YOU DOINNNNNNNNN?

Yes, talking about stupid people, i was referring to Gary Morton's contribution to the shows as producer, of course Lucy was executive producer but taking care of her performance and studio boss and running a house and raising kids, how much of an executive producer could she be?

I agree about Archie Bunker's place stinking after the great All in the Family. But i disagree about Jack and Lucy and the show about the vault. It was the same as those terrible sketches on the Bob Hope specials, you watched to see superstars doing sketches not to see things that made sense. At that point of Lucy's career, they got desperate for laughs, and the great Bob and Madelyn were gone, so they resorted to cheap jokes and situations, but i still LOVED seing two aging superstars acting together, two beloved icons of comedy, even though i winced at the situation they were in!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
DawsongirlDiva, what's wrong with stupid characters on TV, the current favorite Joey onFriends is so popular, they want to give him his own show. With stupid characters, they are usually so lovable, we want to watch them forever, maybe because we feel superior to them, i dunno! HOW YOU DOINNNNNNNNN?

I think (like every sitcom character) they go over board with the dumbness. I swear I've NEVER met anyone as dumb as some TV characters. I don't know...they insult my intelligence or something.

What's wrong with stupid characters? Alot. I don't really like stupid characters(Lucy maybe somewhat of an exception). Its ok to get yourself in zany situations AS LONG as the plot has realism and logic to it. Lucy and Vivian getting jobs in a chocolate factory to prove they can survive in the working world to their husbands is a logically premise to start yourself off with. Now you have a strong foundation on which to put your zany situation on. However, starting your situation off with a gorilla guarding money. Please. Heck, the Lucy character during the last 3 years of TLS had no premise. She had no life and had all these unbelieve things happen to her. At least with the first 3-4 seasons of HL, she had a life and was someone a logical premise could be build around. And yes I do agree, it was the very stupid Gary who helped in the big decline of TLS and really the decline of HL its last 2-3 seasons. And I don't know if I really like seeing two great stars in a situation that not even they can save. It makes me wish they would demand better material. But again, blame the stupid Gary. In closing, I don't hate the final 3 seasons of TLS or the last 2 of HL. It's still Lucy and its still better than today's junk. It just leaves me wondering why she couldn't see the script and face of the show wasn't particularly great and try to do something about it.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
DawsongirlDiva, what's wrong with stupid characters on TV, the current favorite Joey onFriends is so popular, they want to give him his own show. With stupid characters, they are usually so lovable, we want to watch them forever, maybe because we feel superior to them, i dunno! HOW YOU DOINNNNNNNNN?

Stupid characters are one of the main reasons I don't watch any of the sitcoms that are on the air these days. Every sitcom has them, and they always have the same annoying and predictable lines, and speak in a gee-I'm-so-stupid voice. They've become a cliche, as have these sitcoms which are basically unoriginal clones of one another.

Making a Leaner, Meaner "The Lucy Show":
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22903

Share your thoughts and give us your input about this topic (located in TLS board). :)

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Yes, talking about stupid people, i was referring to Gary Morton's contribution to the shows as producer, of course Lucy was executive producer but taking care of her performance and studio boss and running a house and raising kids, how much of an executive producer could she be?

Lucy devoted far more of her time to work. She left the house duties to her mother and nanny who raised Lucie and Desi Jr. Lucie will tell you she got very little time with her mother, and even less of it was quality time.

Originally posted by oldshows
What's wrong with stupid characters? Alot. I don't really like stupid characters(Lucy maybe somewhat of an exception). Its ok to get yourself in zany situations AS LONG as the plot has realism and logic to it. Lucy and Vivian getting jobs in a chocolate factory to prove they can survive in the working world to their husbands is a logically premise to start yourself off with. Now you have a strong foundation on which to put your zany situation on. However, starting your situation off with a gorilla guarding money. Please. Heck, the Lucy character during the last 3 years of TLS had no premise. She had no life and had all these unbelieve things happen to her. At least with the first 3-4 seasons of HL, she had a life and was someone a logical premise could be build around. And yes I do agree, it was the very stupid Gary who helped in the big decline of TLS and really the decline of HL its last 2-3 seasons. And I don't know if I really like seeing two great stars in a situation that not even they can save. It makes me wish they would demand better material. But again, blame the stupid Gary. In closing, I don't hate the final 3 seasons of TLS or the last 2 of HL. It's still Lucy and its still better than today's junk. It just leaves me wondering why she couldn't see the script and face of the show wasn't particularly great and try to do something about it.

Ditto.

Geez, i think i'm out of my element here, these posts require a lot of thought, and i don't have the time, very well said, all of you made good points. Joey on Friends is not the brightest bulb in the box, but like most people i LOVE that character and would watch his show if he was given one. But i too don't watch any of the shows on TV today with the exception of Friends Raymond and Will and Grace. I wasn't fighting for stupid characters, i just was defending Joey as an example of a Lucy'ish character who is liked by most people. I write these posts between work assignments and i sometimes write too fast with not enough thought. On that previous post, i was referring to me as stupid, not Gary, for not saying Lucy was the executive producer, i just meant that Gary being any type of producer on her shows diminished the quality, you all read it as Gary being stupid because of the high esteem we have for him. The how you doinnnnn line at the end of the post commenting on Dawsongirldiva makes it look like i'm referring to her as stupid when i just wanted to joke with that famous line. She surely knows the LAST word i would ever use to her would be stupid as i think very highly of her. Jane, you hit another nerve. Any comments about Lucie not getting enough attention from her mother drive me nuts. Lucie is a beautiful, smart well adjusted woman today who raised five kids, two were her husband's, and still managed a career, and many other accomplishments and she should be very proud of that. Lucy had many problems dealing with her kids because of the way she was brought up by her mom, and she ran a studio and was the biggest star on TV for a quarter century. She had to deal with a philandering husband, and she lived to work, in a town where only youth succeeds, under these and other circumstances, i think she did a terrific job with both kids, and she definitely LOVED those kids!

There's no doubt she absolutely loved her children to death but even Lucie has admitted DeDe Ball basically raised them, took them shopping, ect.

Lucie gave an interview recently to the Telegraph I think it was, where she spoke very positively about her relationship with Lucy. She did admit, though, that she was very much her father's daughter, and much preferred his warmth and displays of emotion. It can't have been easy for Lucy though. Goodness knows it can be hard enough for career women now, but in the 1950s? Mind you, it's not going to have been easy for Desi either, and it's important not to forget that. She may have been a woman in a man's world, but he was a Latino in a country that had big problems with that.

:wave:

As usual you all make good points, i just have a problem with Lucie making comments on her upbringing as it sometimes borders the Mommie Dearest area. I think as she matures, she realizes what her mom went through as she herself has a carreer and raised these great well adjusted kids, making more time for them. I remember Lucy saying on a talk show that she had to convince Lucie to get some help as she even took the kids on her tours with her, very admirable indeed! I'm glad you brought up that 50's factor Mickey as it was very hard for women like Lucy back then, and Lucy glowed when talking about her kids and their talents, they should return the favor and remember that she gave them everything when she was alive, and took care of them for the rest of their lives leaving a legacy and money to take care of their futures. Lucy's mom HELPED with the kids as the nannies did, no argument there. But, Lucy was always involved in their life, whether it was checking out their friends, schooling, whatever, she was hands on. What she lacked was the warmth of Desi who took them by the hand to check out a sunset while on the beach. Desi's relationship with his kids is one of the things i admire most about him, always have. However Lucie also described the alcoholic rages and tantrums and yelling and screaming her dad went through, i don't know which is worse, the silent treatment from mom or the rantings of dad, but if Lucie looks back completely and thoroughly she had two loving caring parents who worshipped their kids but needed a little therapy to know how to deal with them, itr was a very different time, and VERY unusual circumstances!

To be fair, though, she also mentions plenty of tantrums and yelling (and throwing of furniture!) on her mother's part too! Interesting upbringing, if nothing else!

I guess most of us blame our parents for something though. Probably none of them really get it right.

:wave:

Well, it's difficult for any ordinary parents, imagine raising two teenagers in Hollywood in the 60's! I remember Lucy saying there were houses they weren't allowed to go to, she would talk about their grades on talk shows which i did not think was right, she was strict but also claimed they could wrap her around their little finger. Lucy did not want her kids to be spoiled and she succeeded there, i only remember reading one fan's story of a surly Desi jr not wanting to sign an autograph, that's not bad considering how lone he's been in the business, and i've NEVER heard anything negative on Lucie. She gets a lot of flak when she criticizes her mom, because the fans didn't get raised by her so they might find that sort of thing hard to take, but i still look at them both and see two beautiful caring human beings who give of their time and money to help others just like their parents did, so Lucy and Desi must have done something right!

Originally posted by Mickey
Sometimes I think I'm the only one! But he was a cool guy, and even Bob Hope, probably the greatest comedian ever, was impressed by his comic timing. Then there's that amazing voice - A shouter, yes, but no microphone. These days everybodys' singing is dubbed on later to make up for bad acoustics, whereas Desi just went for it. And besides, anybody who plays drums like that...!

Actually I always found Dino funnier than Jerry Lewis as well, and Ernie Wise funnier than Eric Morecambe. Go figure.

http://freespace.virgin.net/xenon.swordznsorcery/image11.jpg

Desi Arnaz - Very Cool Person :wave: :wave:
Glad to see that there is someone else out there who likes Desi as much as I do. Don't get me wrong I am a big Lucy fan but it seems to me that Desi has been over looked for his talents. Look at all he was able to accomplish. Very Very talented man.[B]

Originally posted by da514
:wave:
Glad to see that there is someone else out there who likes Desi as much as I do. Don't get me wrong I am a big Lucy fan but it seems to me that Desi has been over looked for his talents. Look at all he was able to accomplish. Very Very talented man.[B] I'm a big Desi fan here too!:) :wave:

There's no denying that Lucy and Desi were two of the most loving caring charitable, talented people the world has ever known, and their kids turned out the same way!

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Definitely her earlier work. I'm not really a fan of her later stuff.

You said it all DawsonGirl!!

Now I have to say i'm kind of like bweir, I'm a reallllly big fan of "The Lucy Show" and I can't speak for everyone, but I really like "The Lucy Show" better.:D

I think many of us forgot how great The Lucy show was, when we see it now, we appreciate it more, i'm sure we'll even like Here's Lucy, if we ever get to see those again!

Heres Lucy - Ewwwww.:rolleyes:

Many of those shows with her kids were great, it's the last few years that were horrible. Of Here's Lucy i mean!

I would pick her early work.

Even in the crappy versions at the end, it was still Lucy up there, so there's still some value in it, all the greats had it to the end, Benny, Skelton, and Lucy too!

"The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" were GREAT SHOWS!!!

Yes I said it,lol!

And as for HL, most of the episodes for the first 3 seasons had fairly believable premises. It wasn't until season 4 and especially season 5 where things reverted back to being like seasons 4-6 of TLS.

Season 4 was the season that Bob and Madelyn returned as writers for the show (they only wrote 1 episode for season 3)

Seasons 3, 4 and 5 were the show's most respected seasons. 4 and 5 attributed to Bob and Madelyn's return to the fold. Season three because the writers had finally developed a flow that worked, pleasing critics and audiences alike. Infact season 3 is the show's highest rated, again before Bob and Madelyn returned.

Season 6 held the classic "Lucy is N.G as an R.N", written by Bob and Madelyn. Infact they wrote the majority of the eps for this season, along with Bob O'Brien. If you look at the final 5 or 10 episodes in the 6th season they are actually some of the best in the series' ENTIRE run!

Another problem I forgot to mention is Lucy Carmichael's obvious personality change in many of the later episodes. She went from being smart and shrewd to being a Gracie Allen type clueless idiot. And then there were those impossibly far-fetched episodes like the one where they had, underneath the bank, a gorilla, a tribe of Indians, piranhas, and quicksand to guard Jack Benny's money. And apparently this was all bank secretary Lucy Carmichael's idea. Please.

That "Jack Benny" epsiode is considered one of the series best.


During the 4th, 5th, and 6th season of the show the Lucy character (and the show infact) changed. The show became IMO a skitcom. Watch an episode of the "Jack Benny" show and you'll know what I mean. Infact the head writer on TLS worked for Benny on his sitcom.

The show wasn't about continuity or "believability" so much as coming up with something hilarious for Lucy to do each week. The basic premise stayed the same (A widowed woman trying to make it, she works in a bank, etc, etc...), but the "Lucy" character and the show overall were written to accommodate whatever the writers had dreamed up.

This style of sitcom is (unfortunately, IMO) no longer done, which is why the show is inferior to some. Most shows of today (and after TLS) use the ILL formula (The script is usually grounded in "reality" and continuity /belivabity is of #1 importance)

Seasons 4, 5, and 6 of TLS were the shows highest rated.

As to the comments about Lucy winning two Emmys for the show by "default". Lucy was up against Elizabeth Montgomery, Agnes Moorehead, and Marlo Thomas...all of them at the peaks of their careers, and popularity. The second time I'll concur that although she didn't win by default, I would say there's a chance that she won because TLS had just completed Six highly successful seasons...Season six being the series most popular!

As for which I prefer (or which I'd rather own) her work on ILL or her later work. It isn't so much that I would pick one over the other, I just think that people are sometimes alittle to overly critical of her later stuff.

Critics be damned, i love all 500 shows, they all have something redeeming about them, Lucille Ball is in them!

Post 4200!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Critics be damned, i love all 500 shows, they all have something redeeming about them, Lucille Ball is in them!
I love all five of her shows too. I love all of the episodes from the five shows even when some of them are not-so-good ones. Regardless, anything that features Lucille Ball as the star I love.

I love the three that I've seen!:crazy:

Well, you're young, THERE'S STILL TIME!

Probably the I love Lucy Comedy hour

You mean the Lucy Desi comedy hour? That's the problem, they had so many different names!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
You mean the Lucy Desi comedy hour? That's the problem, they had so many different names!

Lucille Ball's hour-long sitcom which began in the fall of 1957 and ended in the spring of 1960 went under three titles:

~The Lucille Ball-Desi Arnaz Show (original run)
~The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour (syndication)
~We Love Lucy (syndication)

Now if you had the titles for all the shows she was ever involved with, and the other names they had at one time, she could probably make the Guiness book of world records!

100



That's all...lol

Are you saying you only LOVE 100 out of her 500 shows? Well, that's still better than the crap they make nowadays! Friends is my favorite and they make me laugh one or twice a season, Raymond's a little better because the characters are so well developped!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Are you saying you only LOVE 100 out of her 500 shows? Well, that's still better than the crap they make nowadays! Friends is my favorite and they make me laugh one or twice a season, Raymond's a little better because the characters are so well developped!

LOL, I guess I do need to add more.....:D

My post above was the 100th post....therefore I wrote 100 to signify that my post was the point that this thread reached 100 posts...get it? Or did I confuse you?

And I LOVE all of LUCY's stuff...ALL!!!!! :lol: :D

I've watched "Friends" once or twice since it's premiere! LOL, Yes I know what your reaction is :eek: LOL (Not my type of show, but it's ok)

And I'm not into"Everybody Loves Raymond" either (It's ok, also, just never interest me).

My fav shows of today are:
Spoongebob Square Pants :p (infact I love alot of the Nickelodeon toons)

The Mole

Will and Grace

The Simpsons

Whose Line Is It Anyway

Cedric The Entertainer: Presents (This show is ok, nothing special, a mix of "Flip Wilson" and "Carol Burnett" with tepid results)

Well, i'm with you on Simpsons and Will and Grace, they are two of my all time favorites. As for the 100 thing, yes, i hate to admit it, but watching Lucy all those years, i'm afraid i have more than a little Lucy Ricardo in me, in a day or two, as i'm shaving, i'll go OOOOHHHHHHHHH, i get it now!

Hello everyone. I'm back now after a six week haitus. I see we're back on one of my favorite topics, Lucy's post ILL series(yes Splain, that topic again :) ) I really enjoy watching Lucy's later series. TLS was a good series, especially the first 3 seasons and even more so season 1. There were so many classic episodes during that fantastic 1st season that can most certainly hold their own with ILL's best. Without Viv, seasons 4-6, while still fairly good, weren't nearly up with the first 3 seasons. At times, things just got a little too far-fatched. HL was also a good series. The addition of Lucie and Desi Jr added that little bit that seemed to be missing from the last 3 seasons of TLS. Season 2 was better than season 1 and season 3 was great. The scripts were good and everything just jelled together. The Lucy Meets the Burtons episode was one of Lucy's best of all time. After Desi Jr left at the end of season 3, things weren't quite as good during season 4 but still good. Season 5 and 6 were pretty much hit and miss. If Bob and Madalyn wrote it, it was a hit and sometimes a classic. If they didn't write it, it was usually a miss, sometimes a big time miss. I really wish some major network would pick these shows up. These shows really don't get the respect they deserve, partly I think because they are unfairly compared to ILL. If those network heads would take these shows on an individual basis, they would find they were good shows and at times, great with many classic episodes. Let's hope someone picks them up and SOON.

WE SURE MISSED YOU OLD SHOWS! Nice to have you back. I was telling people on the boards that i was watching The Lucy show on one screen, while ILL was on the other on TV Land and i couldn't get over how different Lucy looked. I'm presently watching the first 50 episodes of The Lucy show while i tape the last 15 that i'm missing from the 180 ILL shows. I was wondering why Jess sued for using the same character when they obviously look so different. But i added that the plots were sometimes totally identical as in the one i saw where Lucy is hiding under the table in a restaurant while Viv and her date are eating. So similar to the ILL ep where she's on a diet and fights the dog for some scraps of food!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
But i added that the plots were sometimes totally identical as in the one i saw where Lucy is hiding under the table in a restaurant while Viv and her date are eating. So similar to the ILL ep where she's on a diet and fights the dog for some scraps of food!

The plots from the first season of The Lucy Show are like the ones from I Love Lucy while the later seasons of The Lucy Show bare little resembelance to that of I Love Lucy.

Thank you for that warm welcome Splain. Now that the semester is over and that long, busy final six weeks is over, I have time to come on here. Yes, Lucy Carmichael was certainly different during the final three years of TLS than Lucy Ricardo. And so were the plots, the show's formula, ect. But the first 3 seasons were very similar to ILL, especially the 1st season which had Desi, Bob and Madalyn and their old ILL stuff all over the place.