https://www.newsweek.com/db-cooper-update-why-fbi-reopened-case-1991589

The FBI can't handle the truth. That's the best summary and unfortunate reality of that case. For more than 50 years the bureau has held a staunch anti-McCoy bias, to the point they have used scoffing language on the website toward anyone believing in McCoy. Imagine the absurdity required to claim McCoy was in Los Angeles that weekend, doing drills for the Utah Air National Guard. What weightless tip led in that direction? Yet it was enough for the FBI to run with it for a few years.

Now imagine the FBI tossing all of that aside and conceding the gross error. They aren't strong or classy enough to do that, IMO. That's why I'm not overly interested in the parachute aspect. That's a dubious connection, that it was the exact parachute. Much more meaningful is the McCoy kids coming forward. That aspect will lend to greater name recognition and curiosity, an opportunity for clarity to break through the nonsensical wall, the one that has gripped this case for decades and led to McCoy information being scrubbed from the Wikipedia and an all-but-forbidden topic on many devoted forums.

The YouTube guy who renewed attention to McCoy a couple of years ago has done a great job tracing the chain of command. He found out that only 3 people have led the FBI investigation. There's the rub. I suggested it here and elsewhere decades ago. Nobody was hired to this case, or promoted within the case, unless they earned the Ralph Himmelsbach seal of approval: Ignore McCoy or work at Burger King.

Of course, I would view that as a promotion.

Roughly 16-18 years ago I listed to an LDS radio program devoted to the DB Cooper case. The guest was the FBI guy who was then leading the investigation. Since it was a Utah-based program, naturally I expected McCoy to be the focus.

Hardly. The FBI guy cut that off immediately. Very early in the program he said, "I guarantee it wasn't McCoy."

That was it. He offered no reason or explanation. His words were interjected instead of flowing from the course of conversation. But I didn't have to wonder what was going on. Pal, that attitude is the only reason you hold that position. You're safe and salaried as long as you cling to it. Go chase the latest new name every year.

I think the FBI will eventually name McCoy as Cooper. But we're still too close, too many Himmelsbach guys still around. It's going to require a cleansing, and likely beyond my lifespan.

Very lengthy post. I think I've figured out the Karen McCoy situation. I'll deal with it in one swoop:

The widow Karen McCoy quickly sued the authors and publisher of the book, “DB Cooper, the Real McCoy.” Why would she do that, if she knew her husband had been DB Cooper? It has always been a valid question.

The answer now seems very clear, when tying together three newly available pieces of information.

Karen McCoy’s lawsuit had nothing to do with her husband as DB Cooper. She was a proud woman who was suing to protect her own reputation. Scroll to the final paragraph if you want those details, minus the set up.

Situational influence is always the bedrock toward understanding landscape and thought process. By the date of the book publishing in 1991, Karen McCoy had lived with the DB Cooper secret for 20 years. She had always assumed it would come back to her husband. The FBI can’t possibly continue to bungle, as new generations of agents take a look.

Then there it is in black and white, hundreds of pages with all the details. Karen McCoy no longer has to guess. She sees the description of the wee hour drive to Las Vegas, immediately preceding the Cooper event and verified by multiple credit card receipts. Our Thanksgiving alibi is screwed. They know about the practice run to Las Vegas two weeks earlier. All the commonalities of the two hijackings are described, ones that can’t possibly be coincidence. The side by side of her husband and the Cooper sketch is within the book with patent weight.

This has to explode. That’s what she is thinking. There is going to be consensus. And soon there will be a movie. I have to act now.

First, the bedrock. I’ll remind of her son Rick McCoy’s recent quote, “And trust me, nobody was forcing my mother to do anything."

That’s the driving force, the character trait. She was headstrong and undaunted. Nobody was going to tell Karen McCoy that suing the book was ill advised or too risky.

Again, the layout of 1991. Karen McCoy has used those 20 years in admirable fashion. We know from her daughter Chante’s recent graveside video clip that Karen McCoy as widow rebuilt her life to earn a Master’s Degree and a PhD. By 1991 those degrees may not have been complete. I don’t know the timetable. It’s possible she used the funds from the lawsuit victory to fund advanced education. Regardless, no doubt she was immensely proud. But none of that will matter, if she is portrayed in a big screen movie following the insinuations of that book.

The co-authors Bernie Rhodes and Russell Calame took many liberties while describing McCoy’s prison escape and the 3 months on the lam before he was killed. To be fair, that wasn’t their priority. They had devoted years to gathering material to establish McCoy as Cooper. The remainder of the book was glorified filler.

It was anything but filler to Karen McCoy. The authors left the distinct impression that Karen McCoy had an affair with an FBI agent, that she became smitten with him and tipped the FBI to the address of Richard McCoy’s hideaway in Virginia Beach, where he was killed. I’m sure I relayed those impressions here. Anyone who read the book would have them.

Frankly, the authors probably got it wrong. Karen McCoy would have been livid. That lends to the second bit of newly available information, a link that appeared in 2018 although I didn’t find it until last year. I’ll quote the key section:

https://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/

“The book implied that the FBI agents had spoken to Mrs McCoy and other witnesses directly… but Mrs McCoy had refused to speak to them and certainly hadn’t told them her part in the hijack planning.

It turned out that in 1972, after his arrest and sentencing, McCoy came up with a plan to publish a book about his heist and hired an attorney in Provo to act as his agent. This came to nothing after his death but the attorney kept the transcripts of interviews with McCoy and his family, including his mother, his wife, his brother and Mrs McCoy’s sister.

The FBI agents had learned of this and requested the files from the attorney. He “graciously” agreed to give them everything he had kept: almost two hundred pages of interview transcripts. Bernie Rhodes later explained that he reconstructed the information from those transcripts and then rewrote the interviews as though he had conducted them himself, “to give more immediacy to the dialogue”.

***

That was extreme clarity. Not only is Karen McCoy being portrayed as a cheater and a snitch, but direct quotes are implying that herself and other family members cooperated with a book author who they never spoke to. That in itself would have fueled Karen McCoy’s belief that a lawsuit had huge opportunity to succeed.

When I called co-author Russell Calame circa 2006 and eventually asked about Karen McCoy’s lawsuit, he surprised me by talking about a movie. I wasn’t prepared for that at all. Nothing online was spotlighting that aspect. Everybody was using Karen McCoy’s victory in the lawsuit as proof that McCoy was not Cooper.

As I detailed here, Calame insisted that was malarkey. He said Karen McCoy was so shook up on the stand she was repeatedly asking for water breaks. Calame said his lawyers, “had her on the ropes,” throughout, to degree that he felt sorry for her and wished it hadn’t come to this.

Calame explained that all Karen McCoy cared about was a movie. Once her lawyer shifted exclusively to that topic, Calame and Rhodes were extremely relieved. They were old men and worn out, after a decade researching the book. They had no intention of doing a movie or participating in one. Once both sides agreed, the judge quickly ruled in Karen McCoy’s favor.

In hindsight I didn’t ask enough questions. Calame left the impression it was no movie period. But that’s not what the judge ruled. This is where the third newly available link comes in handy. Karen McCoy didn’t dare believe she could prevent a movie. She filed the lawsuit and entered that courtroom with focused intent on preventing a movie from characterizing her as the book had.

This is the third link, new as of last year. When I posted here at length regarding McCoy two decades ago, I did it largely because I was miffed that so little info was available on the internet. I remember emphasizing that during the long thread, that it was becoming the best online source for McCoy as Cooper. I don’t think the moderators understood that aspect, or the value. Thankfully the rest of the internet has now caught up, including this link: https://ericroots.wordpress.com/2023/03/27/captain-jerry-hearn-the-hero-of-flight-855/

That link is ostensibly an account of the blogger’s cousin, who was the pilot of the second plane hijacked by McCoy. But if you continue to scroll, the hefty bulk of the blog post centers on the hijacking and all of the residue, including the trial, the escape, and the lawsuit. It’s easily the best one-source summary I’ve seen. And within the description of the lawsuit is the key focus, that Karen McCoy disputed sections of the book related to herself, and wanted to make sure they were excluded from any movie:

“She denied allegations raised in the book that she drove a getaway car in his prison escape, that she dated an FBI agent, that she conspired with the FBI to have her husband killed or captured, or that she threatened to throw her daughter under the wheels of a truck: “I was not unfaithful to Richard McCoy. I did not help have him killed. I feel like I’m barely holding on, and I have worked too hard to hold on.” Judge Wilkinson ruled that any movie made from the book would be prohibited from including those specific allegations.”

The FBI can't handle the truth. That's the best summary and unfortunate reality of that case. For more than 50 years the bureau has held a staunch anti-McCoy bias, to the point they have used scoffing language on the website toward anyone believing in McCoy. Imagine the absurdity required to claim McCoy was in Los Angeles that weekend, doing drills for the Utah Air National Guard. What weightless tip led in that direction? Yet it was enough for the FBI to run with it for a few years.

Now imagine the FBI tossing all of that aside and conceding the gross error. They aren't strong or classy enough to do that, IMO. That's why I'm not overly interested in the parachute aspect. That's a dubious connection, that it was the exact parachute. Much more meaningful is the McCoy kids coming forward. That aspect will lend to greater name recognition and curiosity, an opportunity for clarity to break through the nonsensical wall, the one that has gripped this case for decades and led to McCoy information being scrubbed from the Wikipedia and an all-but-forbidden topic on many devoted forums.

The YouTube guy who renewed attention to McCoy a couple of years ago has done a great job tracing the chain of command. He found out that only 3 people have led the FBI investigation. There's the rub. I suggested it here and elsewhere decades ago. Nobody was hired to this case, or promoted within the case, unless they earned the Ralph Himmelsbach seal of approval: Ignore McCoy or work at Burger King.

Of course, I would view that as a promotion.

Roughly 16-18 years ago I listed to an LDS radio program devoted to the DB Cooper case. The guest was the FBI guy who was then leading the investigation. Since it was a Utah-based program, naturally I expected McCoy to be the focus.

Hardly. The FBI guy cut that off immediately. Very early in the program he said, "I guarantee it wasn't McCoy."

That was it. He offered no reason or explanation. His words were interjected instead of flowing from the course of conversation. But I didn't have to wonder what was going on. Pal, that attitude is the only reason you hold that position. You're safe and salaried as long as you cling to it. Go chase the latest new name every year.

I think the FBI will eventually name McCoy as Cooper. But we're still too close, too many Himmelsbach guys still around. It's going to require a cleansing, and likely beyond my lifespan.

And.. You have to toss out the evidence pointing AWAY from it being McCoy. So, what you're looking down your nose at people for is exactly the same thing that you are doing.

the first one being.. All the FAs who had contact with him said "No, that's not the guy".. Now.. i'll give you this one, because eyewitness ID is.. Just horrendous. Especially under stressful circumstances. Normally, the ID is more "That's the guy" vs "That's not him", but.. I don't rely on this one.

Here's where McCoy as a suspect falls apart for me. Now, I wouldn't say 100% it's NOT him, but.. I give it fairly low odds compared to 'Persons Unknown" which are at the top of my list. I think McCoy is.. The Shasta Cola of hijackers.. While DB Cooper is the real thing, the original Coke. McCoy is likely just a poor imitation.

The difference between the Cooper and McCoy hijackings, once you drill down into the details, is night and day. Looking from a high level.. Sure.. they both hijacked the same type plane, made ransom demands, parachuted out. both in.. Somewhat the same geographical area.

but.. Cooper had, maybe, a bomb.. We don't know for sure. McCoy a hand grenade and pistol.

We don't know what happened to Cooper after the jump, but McCoy, wearing a flight suit and carrying a duffel bag with $500k in it, was thumbing a ride back home.. The motorist tipped off the FBI and McCoy was arrested two days later.

BTW.. McCoy was with his family in Utah for Thanksgiving 2 days after the Cooper jump and was placed in Las Vegas the day of the hijacking. He was flying national guard choppers during the search for himself.

The McCoy hijacking was roughly 4 months after the Cooper hijacking..

If you look at the details.. Cooper was fairly picture perfect. He took all evidence, other than that tie clip, with him when he left the plane. McCoy left all that, and that's what was used to convict him. Cooper was nearly picture perfect execution. McCoy was a bumbling idiot.

I can't see him going from Capone to Costello like that. I just can't put that the person who did things so perfectly just 4 months later did things so poorly that he was caught within two days.

Further.. The question ANYONE must answer, no matter who you think did it, if you think anything other than they went splat when jumping..

Where's the money? McCoy, they found the duffel bag with all but $30 of the ransom at his house. Where's the $200k from Cooper? We know where a few thousand wound up, but that's it.

Now.. You can have the theory that both were McCoy and he lost the money in the first jump.. That's a legitimate possibility. But.. You still have to get past him pulling off a picture perfect hijacking to being one of the Three Stooges in the second.

As for the wife and why she sued.. Well.. She was culpable. She knew about it. I can make the argument there that she was attempting to cover her own butt so that she didn't get charges filed against her. I don't know when she passed, but.. She might have been on the hook for conspiracy or aiding/abetting charges.


Anyway.. I don't think they were the same person due to the above.. However.. I do keep an open mind. The latest evidence is nothing that changes my mind. It's plausible that it's McCoy, but.. Too much doesn't fit for my tastes.

My theory has been that it was a Canadian military person who was likely stationed in eastern Canada. They went splat when jumping. It would fit the Dan Cooper comics, if that is legit.. It would fit the 'nondescript' accent that Cooper had. It would explain, perhaps, why he wasn't identified. Someone goes missing in Quebec around that time, you don't necessarily suspect them of a hijacking across the continent in a different country. And, the Canadian air force would work with Titanium, which was found on the tie clip. And the way Cooper referred to the money, which was a bit odd. "Negotiable American Currency".. While that could have been something done to deflect suspicion.. It's just not the way an American would talk.

Am I right? I doubt it.. But.. That's the best I could come up with to fit most of the evidence.


Oh yeah.. And McCoy couldn't shut up. He talked to people after the Cooper hijacking about how he could pull that off. So.. You also have to believe that not only did he go from telling no one anything to then not being able to shut his damn mouth.

was there not an FBI Files episode about McCoy's Highjacking where the agent featured in the episode claims that they believed McCoy was Cooper?

I get that the FBI closed the case and seemed to move on from the McCoy connection. But there were some in the FBI who did investigate McCoy. It's not as if all of the agency have done something here to cover up a case. From my understanding there was not enough evidence to conclude that McCoy is Cooper.

And.. You have to toss out the evidence pointing AWAY from it being McCoy. So, what you're looking down your nose at people for is exactly the same thing that you are doing.

the first one being.. All the FAs who had contact with him said "No, that's not the guy".. Now.. i'll give you this one, because eyewitness ID is.. Just horrendous. Especially under stressful circumstances. Normally, the ID is more "That's the guy" vs "That's not him", but.. I don't rely on this one.

Here's where McCoy as a suspect falls apart for me. Now, I wouldn't say 100% it's NOT him, but.. I give it fairly low odds compared to 'Persons Unknown" which are at the top of my list. I think McCoy is.. The Shasta Cola of hijackers.. While DB Cooper is the real thing, the original Coke. McCoy is likely just a poor imitation.

The difference between the Cooper and McCoy hijackings, once you drill down into the details, is night and day. Looking from a high level.. Sure.. they both hijacked the same type plane, made ransom demands, parachuted out. both in.. Somewhat the same geographical area.

but.. Cooper had, maybe, a bomb.. We don't know for sure. McCoy a hand grenade and pistol.

We don't know what happened to Cooper after the jump, but McCoy, wearing a flight suit and carrying a duffel bag with $500k in it, was thumbing a ride back home.. The motorist tipped off the FBI and McCoy was arrested two days later.

BTW.. McCoy was with his family in Utah for Thanksgiving 2 days after the Cooper jump and was placed in Las Vegas the day of the hijacking. He was flying national guard choppers during the search for himself.

The McCoy hijacking was roughly 4 months after the Cooper hijacking..

If you look at the details.. Cooper was fairly picture perfect. He took all evidence, other than that tie clip, with him when he left the plane. McCoy left all that, and that's what was used to convict him. Cooper was nearly picture perfect execution. McCoy was a bumbling idiot.

I can't see him going from Capone to Costello like that. I just can't put that the person who did things so perfectly just 4 months later did things so poorly that he was caught within two days.

Further.. The question ANYONE must answer, no matter who you think did it, if you think anything other than they went splat when jumping..

Where's the money? McCoy, they found the duffel bag with all but $30 of the ransom at his house. Where's the $200k from Cooper? We know where a few thousand wound up, but that's it.

Now.. You can have the theory that both were McCoy and he lost the money in the first jump.. That's a legitimate possibility. But.. You still have to get past him pulling off a picture perfect hijacking to being one of the Three Stooges in the second.

As for the wife and why she sued.. Well.. She was culpable. She knew about it. I can make the argument there that she was attempting to cover her own butt so that she didn't get charges filed against her. I don't know when she passed, but.. She might have been on the hook for conspiracy or aiding/abetting charges.


Anyway.. I don't think they were the same person due to the above.. However.. I do keep an open mind. The latest evidence is nothing that changes my mind. It's plausible that it's McCoy, but.. Too much doesn't fit for my tastes.

My theory has been that it was a Canadian military person who was likely stationed in eastern Canada. They went splat when jumping. It would fit the Dan Cooper comics, if that is legit.. It would fit the 'nondescript' accent that Cooper had. It would explain, perhaps, why he wasn't identified. Someone goes missing in Quebec around that time, you don't necessarily suspect them of a hijacking across the continent in a different country. And, the Canadian air force would work with Titanium, which was found on the tie clip. And the way Cooper referred to the money, which was a bit odd. "Negotiable American Currency".. While that could have been something done to deflect suspicion.. It's just not the way an American would talk.

Am I right? I doubt it.. But.. That's the best I could come up with to fit most of the evidence.


Oh yeah.. And McCoy couldn't shut up. He talked to people after the Cooper hijacking about how he could pull that off. So.. You also have to believe that not only did he go from telling no one anything to then not being able to shut his damn mouth.
I don't really see them being different. They are both thugs in my opinion and one is not better than the other. or maybe they are the same guy IDK.

Assuming that McCoy and Cooper are not the same person as you insinuated: one person didn't care about surviving. McCoy wanted to get the money and not be caught. McCoy was successful in the fact that he got away, at least for a little while. He used countermeasures and evasive actions that IDK that Cooper used. McCoy also jumped over terrain that was survivable and ensure that he survived and kept the money.

Now if they are the same guy, which is possible. McCoy made changes after the Cooper jump. but perhaps those changes exposed him enough to be caught. If they are not the same, then McCoy was a copy cat and made the changes to account for Cooper's mistakes. I always thought that McCoy was the best suspect of all that were brought forward, but I always think that he could have been an opportunistic copy cat criminal as well.

was there not an FBI Files episode about McCoy's Highjacking where the agent featured in the episode claims that they believed McCoy was Cooper?

I get that the FBI closed the case and seemed to move on from the McCoy connection. But there were some in the FBI who did investigate McCoy. It's not as if all of the agency have done something here to cover up a case. From my understanding there was not enough evidence to conclude that McCoy is Cooper.

They closed the case because.. And I've said this one before.. The greatest line I've heard on the case was some guy at the "DB Cooper Days" festival (yes, there's such a thing!) who said the guy was in his 40's in the 70's, drank like a fish and smoked like a chimney.. Of course he's dead now!

and, you're absolutely right about the FBI agent.. I forget his name, but he said "When I shot McCoy, I shot Cooper".. But.. If i'm not mistaken, that FBI agent wasn't directly involved in the Cooper case.. Or the McCoy hijacking. He was just part of the team that went to arrest McCoy after his escape from prison.

I don't really see them being different. They are both thugs in my opinion and one is not better than the other. or maybe they are the same guy IDK.

Assuming that McCoy and Cooper are not the same person as you insinuated: one person didn't care about surviving. McCoy wanted to get the money and not be caught. McCoy was successful in the fact that he got away, at least for a little while. He used countermeasures and evasive actions that IDK that Cooper used. McCoy also jumped over terrain that was survivable and ensure that he survived and kept the money.

Now if they are the same guy, which is possible. McCoy made changes after the Cooper jump. but perhaps those changes exposed him enough to be caught. If they are not the same, then McCoy was a copy cat and made the changes to account for Cooper's mistakes. I always thought that McCoy was the best suspect of all that were brought forward, but I always think that he could have been an opportunistic copy cat criminal as well.

You're looking at it from a high level. you drill down.. There's lots of differences. That's kinda like saying "These were both bank robberies, must have been the same guy".. It's just.. hijackings for ransom are MUCH more rare.

Again.. It's my opinion that I don't BELIEVE that they're the same person. But.. I don't deal in absolutes. There's certainly the CHANCE.. But.. I've given my reasons to back up why I don't think they're the same.

And, 100% I stand by "Where's the money?".. any suspect, someone MUST have a valid answer for that. We know none of the Cooper money ever made it to circulation. one of the biggest misconceptions I see about that part is that people say "Oh, he gambled it in Vegas".. No, no he didn't. Because that money would have made it back to the Federal Reserve, and they have EVERY serial number of those bills. That's how they ID'ed the money from.. Tega Cay or wherever the kid found the money.

They'll say "He spent it overseas".. No, No he didn't. because.. If he had done that.. Remember the Lufthaunsa heist from "Goodfellas"? that heist was of money being sent back to the US from overseas.. To the fed.. Again, it would have wound up at the fed.

Most people have.. I forget the term for it.. But.. They disregard all facts that don't fit their narrative. Don't get me wrong.. We're all guilty of that to some extent.

There's still excellent questions out there about this.. How the hell did the money that was found wind up where it was? There's been dredging theories, which have been pretty well disproven. People have done studies on flotation on how the money could wind up there.. People have theorized he buried the money there to throw people off his trail.. No perfect answers to that question.

They closed the case because.. And I've said this one before.. The greatest line I've heard on the case was some guy at the "DB Cooper Days" festival (yes, there's such a thing!) who said the guy was in his 40's in the 70's, drank like a fish and smoked like a chimney.. Of course he's dead now!

and, you're absolutely right about the FBI agent.. I forget his name, but he said "When I shot McCoy, I shot Cooper".. But.. If i'm not mistaken, that FBI agent wasn't directly involved in the Cooper case.. Or the McCoy hijacking. He was just part of the team that went to arrest McCoy after his escape from prison.



You're looking at it from a high level. you drill down.. There's lots of differences. That's kinda like saying "These were both bank robberies, must have been the same guy".. It's just.. hijackings for ransom are MUCH more rare.

Again.. It's my opinion that I don't BELIEVE that they're the same person. But.. I don't deal in absolutes. There's certainly the CHANCE.. But.. I've given my reasons to back up why I don't think they're the same.

And, 100% I stand by "Where's the money?".. any suspect, someone MUST have a valid answer for that. We know none of the Cooper money ever made it to circulation. one of the biggest misconceptions I see about that part is that people say "Oh, he gambled it in Vegas".. No, no he didn't. Because that money would have made it back to the Federal Reserve, and they have EVERY serial number of those bills. That's how they ID'ed the money from.. Tega Cay or wherever the kid found the money.

They'll say "He spent it overseas".. No, No he didn't. because.. If he had done that.. Remember the Lufthaunsa heist from "Goodfellas"? that heist was of money being sent back to the US from overseas.. To the fed.. Again, it would have wound up at the fed.

Most people have.. I forget the term for it.. But.. They disregard all facts that don't fit their narrative. Don't get me wrong.. We're all guilty of that to some extent.

There's still excellent questions out there about this.. How the hell did the money that was found wind up where it was? There's been dredging theories, which have been pretty well disproven. People have done studies on flotation on how the money could wind up there.. People have theorized he buried the money there to throw people off his trail.. No perfect answers to that question.

I've said many times this case has the many of the same problems as Jack the Ripper. To high profile, to many suspects, not enough hard evidence, and to many crap theories to sort through. And while some intriguing suspects have surfaced, seems there is always a problem with each of them. Not the right age, no connection with the area, no strong motive, ect.

I'm sure its been done, but I think you could probably make a chart of all the suspects and the pros and cons of each one, and then see who has the most pros and the least cons to decide which is the most likely. Whether its McCoy, Lynn doyle Cooper, Kenneth Christiansen or whoever. As far as I know there were serious to semi serious problems with all of them.

The biggest problem for me is that none of the currency resurfaced other than those found on Tina Bar. I am inclined to think it was deliberately placed since they could not come up with a feasible way how it got there accidentally. Then again, since they don't know exactly where Cooper landed, there is no way to know for certain.

I think whether he survived or not, your theory is probably correct. Due to the negotiable American currency statement, the lack of a discernable accent yet clear English, and the familiarity with the Northwest and proximity to Canada, Cooper likely was Canadian and possibly Canadian military. I'm not sure anywhere else really checks all the boxes for his nationality like Canada frankly. Most other English speaking countries have discernable accents. Or at least what would be discernable to Americans.

It might also explain the lack of missing persons reports around the time that could be connected with Cooper. I don't think at the time reports of anyone going missing in Canada would have tricked down into the United States. Such databases didn't really become prevalent until decades later, and I'm still not sure how much info we get out of Canada even today though its surely better than 1971. Of course, Cooper did come off as relatively personable to the flight attendants so he probably didn't give the impression of someone who was a loner or lived in isolation that no one would be aware of him being missing around the time. But he could have easily broke off contact with friends and family some time before the hijacking and then re-established it later, or else come up with a reasonable story about where he was going to be at this time that no one in his life had any reason to doubt.

Would be nice if the truth could finally be discovered about this but have my doubts.

I've said many times this case has the many of the same problems as Jack the Ripper. To high profile, to many suspects, not enough hard evidence, and to many crap theories to sort through. And while some intriguing suspects have surfaced, seems there is always a problem with each of them. Not the right age, no connection with the area, no strong motive, ect.

I'm sure its been done, but I think you could probably make a chart of all the suspects and the pros and cons of each one, and then see who has the most pros and the least cons to decide which is the most likely. Whether its McCoy, Lynn doyle Cooper, Kenneth Christiansen or whoever. As far as I know there were serious to semi serious problems with all of them.

The biggest problem for me is that none of the currency resurfaced other than those found on Tina Bar. I am inclined to think it was deliberately placed since they could not come up with a feasible way how it got there accidentally. Then again, since they don't know exactly where Cooper landed, there is no way to know for certain.

I think whether he survived or not, your theory is probably correct. Due to the negotiable American currency statement, the lack of a discernable accent yet clear English, and the familiarity with the Northwest and proximity to Canada, Cooper likely was Canadian and possibly Canadian military. I'm not sure anywhere else really checks all the boxes for his nationality like Canada frankly. Most other English speaking countries have discernable accents. Or at least what would be discernable to Americans.

It might also explain the lack of missing persons reports around the time that could be connected with Cooper. I don't think at the time reports of anyone going missing in Canada would have tricked down into the United States. Such databases didn't really become prevalent until decades later, and I'm still not sure how much info we get out of Canada even today though its surely better than 1971. Of course, Cooper did come off as relatively personable to the flight attendants so he probably didn't give the impression of someone who was a loner or lived in isolation that no one would be aware of him being missing around the time. But he could have easily broke off contact with friends and family some time before the hijacking and then re-established it later, or else come up with a reasonable story about where he was going to be at this time that no one in his life had any reason to doubt.

Would be nice if the truth could finally be discovered about this but have my doubts.

Yes.. I agree my theory checks the boxes.. But.. That pretty much means nothing other than.. It's a nice little theory. And, quite frankly it's one that is hard to punch holes in. Doesn't mean it's right.

Only thing I'll disagree on the comparison to Jack the Ripper is.. Well.. This case happened in at least what can be called modern times. Now.. 1971 was still quite different. Dude walked to the counter, bought a ticket and walked on the plane with a bomb(maybe) in his briefcase. That wouldn't happen even a few years later. Plus, if it were a decade or so later, they'd have video following him through the airport.

Thank you.. Tina Bar.. I have a brain block always wanting to call that Tega Cay.. What is Tega Cay? Oh, it's a town here in SC, where I am.. Ok, that's why I keep screwing it up.

Just, again, to be devils advocate.. If that money was placed there intentionally.. What are the odds? some kid would be digging in the exact right place and find it? That just seems such a stretch. If ALL the money were there.. I'd agree. But.. To back up your point.. What are the odds that several bundles of the money would all wash up at the exact same place?

Goes back to what you said.. Everything you can make that list of pros and cons and.. Nothing has everything in the 'pro' column. There's cons to everything, and.. Usually.. They're pretty big cons.

One other thing I'll mention.. I don't recall this, but there was some tension between the US and Canada at that time. Not like "We're going to war" but.. Just political tension. So.. That COULD be another check in the pro column on my theory.

the first one being.. All the FAs who had contact with him said "No, that's not the guy".. Now.. i'll give you this one, because eyewitness ID is.. Just horrendous. Especially under stressful circumstances. Normally, the ID is more "That's the guy" vs "That's not him", but.. I don't rely on this one.

This is true but they also spent a great deal of time with Cooper. All of them saying no is damning for McCoy is Cooper in my opinion.

The difference between the Cooper and McCoy hijackings, once you drill down into the details, is night and day.

This is where I reject McCoy as Cooper. Cooper was filmesque and McCoy was a comedy of errors.

The DB Cooper case has always fascinated me. I found all of the links to articles interesting. I think the lack of identifiable accent and specific phrases should be traced to the source. Negotiable American Currency sounds like a journalist or author. It doesn't sound like spoken language. I found original articles on this site that were paraphrased or edited in later articles to where the meaning changed or was simply confusing. A character in a UM segment reenactment of a different case has been called into doubt by some podcasters. That was the real person and his dialog was totally natural. I always say go back to the original source.

When was the last time anyone tried investigating the original DB Cooper scenes? Imaging has improved exponentially since 1980. Evidence or Coopers remains could be preserved in the ash layers. He probably lost the briefcase in freefall or had to ditch it to maintain stability. He could have survived and made it out. He could also have been fatally injured on a tree where he wasn't visible from the ground or air. For now it remains an American folk legend.

The DB Cooper case has always fascinated me. I found all of the links to articles interesting. I think the lack of identifiable accent and specific phrases should be traced to the source. Negotiable American Currency sounds like a journalist or author. It doesn't sound like spoken language. I found original articles on this site that were paraphrased or edited in later articles to where the meaning changed or was simply confusing. A character in a UM segment reenactment of a different case has been called into doubt by some podcasters. That was the real person and his dialog was totally natural. I always say go back to the original source.

When was the last time anyone tried investigating the original DB Cooper scenes? Imaging has improved exponentially since 1980. Evidence or Coopers remains could be preserved in the ash layers. He probably lost the briefcase in freefall or had to ditch it to maintain stability. He could have survived and made it out. He could also have been fatally injured on a tree where he wasn't visible from the ground or air. For now it remains an American folk legend.

First.. Cooper is a folk hero. He stole $200k basically from an insurance company, got away with it (at least wasn't captured) and didn't hurt anyone doing it. That'll get you put up on a pedestal in this country.

The info that we work with is pretty badly degraded. It's that whole thing that you copy a VHS tape so many times.. It's crap.. Well.. The info about this case has passed down so many times, it's much the same. We all probably quote something that isn't true, but has been told so many times it becomes the truth.. such as "D.B. Cooper" .. He never used that name. Misprint in a newspaper, basically. He bought the ticket as Dan Cooper.

Negotiable American currency certainly isn't a term any American I can think of would use.. Maybe a banker? Even that seems a long shot.

As for the scenes.. That's the other problem. No one knows the scene. Remember, he sent all the crew to the cockpit.. So, no one knows EXACTLY when he left the plane. How long did he freefall? When did he deploy the chute, if he did? Him hitting at terminal velocity vs him floating down via parachute.. Even if they DID know where he jumped, could be a wide area.

The only evidence ever recovered, other than the few thousand dollars at Tina Bay.. Was the placard mounted near the rear 'door' he jumped from with instructions on how to operate it. and that was, as I recall, just a laminated piece of paper, which could have been blown miles during its fall and even more after it hit the ground.

The plane was tailed by fighter jets, but.. It was dark. They never saw him jump. There's the FBI's theory on where he landed.. And.. Every goober looking at the case has another theory.. And.. You can't prove or disprove any of them, really.


FWIW.. If he did go splat.. Even without Mt Saint Helens in the equation.. So, let's say he landed outside that area of destruction.. I can't see anything being left today. The chute would have totally degraded, as would the money. There'd be his remains.. Which most likely would be scattered quite a bit by wildlife, and if not that.. Flooding/snow/weather in the area over the course of 53 years. There'd be bones, scattered.. There'd be a belt buckle.. Some of the metal pieces from the chute.. But.. That's the very definition of needle in a haystack. Basically saying "Go find a belt buckle laying somewhere on the ground in the entirety of Washington state."

to me.. There's two ways to solve this. Maybe a few more.

1) We find someone who went missing around that time and has never turned up and can be placed in the area or plausibly could have been the hijacker. This.. Won't SOLVE it as there'll always be conspiracy people out there.

2) Someone pulls out the bag of money and says "I found this in my dad's stuff".. This one.. Would be pretty definitive.


FWIW.. The Tina Bay money.. It was only one or two stacks, I believe.. I'd have to look it up again. There's also a strong possibility that he lost that bundle during the jump or while still in the plane. If it was two, it'd.. Still be a bit odd for them to both wind up in the same place, pending on when they were dropped. just chaos theory there.

I agree with you. I use DB Cooper because that is how he is commonly known. Tina Bay the money site on the Columbia River is the only real crime or evidence site. How the money was bundled in the originally is a factor on how it survives impact. Coupled with direction of flight, airspeed and altitude it narrows it down some. Add in weather data and possible opening altitudes. Todays computers can run a lot of models. While the information on his accent is interesting it's not definitive. There are pockets of "generic accents" all over the US. The military trained intructors to speak with less of a regional accent. What if the common phrase "Dollars, American" was replaced by a journalist with the phrase "Negotiable American currency". This is America. There is always somebody up for this type of search. I was just wondering if any effort had been made. McCoy had a history of migraines. If he was Cooper the anxiety and difficulty concentrating could account for mistakes made in the McCoy hijacking. The possibilities are enormous.

Thank you.. Tina Bar.. I have a brain block always wanting to call that Tega Cay.. What is Tega Cay? Oh, it's a town here in SC, where I am.. Ok, that's why I keep screwing it up.

Just, again, to be devils advocate.. If that money was placed there intentionally.. What are the odds? some kid would be digging in the exact right place and find it? That just seems such a stretch. If ALL the money were there.. I'd agree. But.. To back up your point.. What are the odds that several bundles of the money would all wash up at the exact same place?


You know, having given this some thought, the money itself is an interesting aspect to the case that merits a lot of discussion

One of the foremost arguments Cooper did not survive and the money was lost is that none of it turned up in circulation.

But how strong is this argument really? Lets say Cooper survived and spent the money. What are the odds that the money indeed has gone to various merchants or financial institutions and is even still out there and has simply gone undetected all these years?

To be honest, I don't even know if I know enough to even calculate the odds of that. Given the fact that there are millions upon millions of financial institutions and merchants across the world where it could have been spent and I'm sure a great many of them are not exactly checking serial numbers, in fact I believe if I remember correctly that banks stopped watching for this currency a few years after the heist, it certainly seems feasible.

Then again, if I recall correctly these bills provided to Cooper were all 20's, and they were all printed in the late 1960's. The ransom was $200,000, so that means there were a total of 10,000 bills. If you subtract the ones found on Tina Bar, there are a little more than 9700 unaccounted for. At first glance, it seems plausible 9700 bills could go undetected among the billions out there changing hands.

you also have to take into account how many bills from the 1960's that would resemble these bills are still out there in circulation. I personally have never seen one, but I'm not really rich and don't typically carry a lot of cash. I do know that they changed the design in the late 1990's or early 2000's to a larger portrait of Jackson and that's mostly what you see today. And also I seem to recall that once bills are worn they are sent back to the Fed for shredding. I imagine they check and decommission the serial numbers at that point. So given that none of them have made it back to the Fed apparently, that's a red flag they have not turned up.

But, people have made pretty good arguments that the bills could not have been on Tina Bar since 1971 when the hijacking took place.

One of many reasons this continues to be a frustrating case.

You know, having given this some thought, the money itself is an interesting aspect to the case that merits a lot of discussion


100%. "Where's the money" and variations about the money are the lynchpin. Even if we disagree on the details of the answers or lack of answers to that. The money is the key.


One of the foremost arguments Cooper did not survive and the money was lost is that none of it turned up in circulation.

But how strong is this argument really? Lets say Cooper survived and spent the money. What are the odds that the money indeed has gone to various merchants or financial institutions and is even still out there and has simply gone undetected all these years?


It's very strong. The chances of it still being in circulation are zero. All money was redesigned back in the 90's and those old bills.. When is the last time you saw one of them? ALL those bills were sent back to the reserve for destruction. The only time you MIGHT run into one of them.. They are, after all, still legal tender, would be if someone found a bill stuck under a floorboard in their house or some weird situation like that.

Of course, then it gets a little dicey pending on whether you consider that "in circulation". I'd define circulation as out there being spent, and.. A $20 stuck behind grandma's picture on the mantle isn't being spent.

The average life of a $20 is about 8 years. that's how long it stays in circulation before it is worn enough to be replaced. Remember that, as I recall, it was all $20's

There's ZERO chance that the money is 'circulating' today. Is there a chance that it's in a duffel bag buried somewhere? Sure. There's also the SMALL chance, because, I don't know how the fed did things back in 1971.. Today, a bill would be scanned when returned to the fed and a computer would alert on the bill. Did they have that tech in 1971? I could see SOME of the bills slipping through, but, not 10,000 of them.


To be honest, I don't even know if I know enough to even calculate the odds of that. Given the fact that there are millions upon millions of financial institutions and merchants across the world where it could have been spent and I'm sure a great many of them are not exactly checking serial numbers, in fact I believe if I remember correctly that banks stopped watching for this currency a few years after the heist, it certainly seems feasible.


Banks may have stopped. The fed wouldn't. And.. again, an unanswered question is what tech the fed had at the time. People are fallible, but.. Computers would catch it.



Then again, if I recall correctly these bills provided to Cooper were all 20's, and they were all printed in the late 1960's. The ransom was $200,000, so that means there were a total of 10,000 bills. If you subtract the ones found on Tina Bar, there are a little more than 9700 unaccounted for. At first glance, it seems plausible 9700 bills could go undetected among the billions out there changing hands.


And.. This is where I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I think it's unlikely, though.. I will give you that.. It certainly is plausible. Of course.. It's plausible that I'll win the powerball tomorrow night (or whenever the drawing is) but.. Since I have no intention to buy a ticket.. It's REALLY unliklely.


you also have to take into account how many bills from the 1960's that would resemble these bills are still out there in circulation. I personally have never seen one, but I'm not really rich and don't typically carry a lot of cash. I do know that they changed the design in the late 1990's or early 2000's to a larger portrait of Jackson and that's mostly what you see today. And also I seem to recall that once bills are worn they are sent back to the Fed for shredding. I imagine they check and decommission the serial numbers at that point. So given that none of them have made it back to the Fed apparently, that's a red flag they have not turned up.

But, people have made pretty good arguments that the bills could not have been on Tina Bar since 1971 when the hijacking took place.

One of many reasons this continues to be a frustrating case.

Oh, well, I answered this above. Yeah. The redesign.. And depending on your definition of 'in circulation'.

Just as an example. In my wallet right now.. I have $12. A ten and two singles. I don't carry much cash..

The singles are a series 2017 and 2021

The $10 is 2017.

Now.. Of course, that's a small sample size, but.. It does speak to how quickly money is removed from circulation. Not only that.. Think of inflation. The $20 probably lasted a little longer back in the day.. The old saying that $20 doesn't go as far as it used to certainly applies in multiple ways. I'd bet the bills lasted longer back then because they weren't used as much.

But.. Then again, I suppose we could posit that we don't use near as much cash nowadays, so, maybe it didn't really last longer then. Meaning how long until the bills were worn out.

All that money would have left circulation, my opinion, by the mid 80's at the latest. Many of the bills were already 2-5 years old at that point, so, probably before that. Not considering the outliers that were stuck in some kid's piggybank or similar.

As for the argument they couldn't have been at Tina Bar.. Ok. So. Let's go with that. Now.. My thought would be.. Maybe a heavy rain washed them into the river which then deposited them. Which.. Could have happened anytime in the ~9 years between the jump and their discovery. Perhaps they were in the duffel bag, it finally deteriorated enough for them to come out. Whether the duffel was still on him hanging in a tree, splatted on the ground or whatever.

To me, the argument that someone intentionally put them there and this kid just happened to find them.. Is even harder to believe than they wound up there and the kid happened to find them. Remember as well. These weren't pristine bills the kid found. It was.. Pieces of money.

The problem.. that's STILL a hell of a coincidence for the money to wind up there and be found. I can't deny that. And.. How does the money get there naturally?

JAMESG posted the link to Newsweek. Newsweek has a link to an hour long documentary on finding the alleged DB Cooper parachute rig at the McCoy farm in Cove City NC. I highly recommend reading the article and viewing the video.

The NB8 is an emergency bail out rig. It is composed of the harness, the packtray or parachute container and metal hardware to attach the parachute to to the harness, the opening activation hardware and fasteners etc. The 28 foot diameter round canopy was standard issue.

Earl Causey a math teacher and coach was a certified parachute rigger for a jump club. He made specific modifications converting the bailout rig to a sports rig. This included enlarging the pack tray to accomodate the bulkier Paracommander canopy with it's 20 inch spring pilot chute. The delay mechanism was removed. The ripcord handle was moved to the right side of the harness. Metal D-rings were added to the harness so a belly reserve parachute could be mounted.

Two of Causey's modified NB8 rigs with PC canopies and two T10R reserves were provided to DB Cooper. They are unique and identifiable because he made the modifications himself.

Cooper had a briefcase. The money was delivered in a leather satchel (about 22 pounds). He was given a duffel bag instead of the napsack he requested. What were his exact words? Napsack? Backpack?Bergen?Rucksack? He was unable to secure any of these in a proper fashion for freefall according to most accounts. His best option was to stuff money in the jumpsuit. He had to jettison everything else to avoid leaving evidence.

The FBI is now in possession of the rig, part of the canopy including stenciled data. Will they be able to confirm or deny its authenticity? Causey has passed away. The unused rig from the hijacking is in a museum.

They closed the case because.. And I've said this one before.. The greatest line I've heard on the case was some guy at the "DB Cooper Days" festival (yes, there's such a thing!) who said the guy was in his 40's in the 70's, drank like a fish and smoked like a chimney.. Of course he's dead now!

and, you're absolutely right about the FBI agent.. I forget his name, but he said "When I shot McCoy, I shot Cooper".. But.. If i'm not mistaken, that FBI agent wasn't directly involved in the Cooper case.. Or the McCoy hijacking. He was just part of the team that went to arrest McCoy after his escape from prison.



You're looking at it from a high level. you drill down.. There's lots of differences. That's kinda like saying "These were both bank robberies, must have been the same guy".. It's just.. hijackings for ransom are MUCH more rare.

Again.. It's my opinion that I don't BELIEVE that they're the same person. But.. I don't deal in absolutes. There's certainly the CHANCE.. But.. I've given my reasons to back up why I don't think they're the same.

And, 100% I stand by "Where's the money?".. any suspect, someone MUST have a valid answer for that. We know none of the Cooper money ever made it to circulation. one of the biggest misconceptions I see about that part is that people say "Oh, he gambled it in Vegas".. No, no he didn't. Because that money would have made it back to the Federal Reserve, and they have EVERY serial number of those bills. That's how they ID'ed the money from.. Tega Cay or wherever the kid found the money.

They'll say "He spent it overseas".. No, No he didn't. because.. If he had done that.. Remember the Lufthaunsa heist from "Goodfellas"? that heist was of money being sent back to the US from overseas.. To the fed.. Again, it would have wound up at the fed.

Most people have.. I forget the term for it.. But.. They disregard all facts that don't fit their narrative. Don't get me wrong.. We're all guilty of that to some extent.

There's still excellent questions out there about this.. How the hell did the money that was found wind up where it was? There's been dredging theories, which have been pretty well disproven. People have done studies on flotation on how the money could wind up there.. People have theorized he buried the money there to throw people off his trail.. No perfect answers to that question.

that's not what I meant at all, about looking back at them being the same. the main thing I was trying to articulate is they committed the same crime and one copied the other. or if it was the same person they made sure that they secured the money on the 2nd jump. I agree that there were a lot of differences and I think I posted about that as well like you have. there were similarities as well, which is why McCoy will always be a good suspect.

Another main aspect that I meant to articulate is that regardless of the way that they are portrayed by media, they are both criminals that terrorized people. I'm not an FBI expert nor do I buy into the idea that they are perfect because they are far from it. They no doubt bungled the Cooper case in hindsight. But I am also not really a fan of the way people sensationalize people like McCoy/Cooper and overlook the violent criminal acts that they committed. That is a topic that we could probably hone in more on as well if we want to.

As for the money that was found. I think that is the best clue in the Cooper case. It leads most people to believe that Cooper lost or discarded the money during the jump. Some would say that the discovered Cooper money makes them believe that Cooper died or discarded some money to throw off the investigation. Others would say that it supports the theory that it was McCoy's reason for doing another highjack. It is crazy that they found the money at all. Makes me wonder if more money is out there buried somewhere.

that's not what I meant at all, about looking back at them being the same. the main thing I was trying to articulate is they committed the same crime and one copied the other. or if it was the same person they made sure that they secured the money on the 2nd jump. I agree that there were a lot of differences and I think I posted about that as well like you have. there were similarities as well, which is why McCoy will always be a good suspect.

Another main aspect that I meant to articulate is that regardless of the way that they are portrayed by media, they are both criminals that terrorized people. I'm not an FBI expert nor do I buy into the idea that they are perfect because they are far from it. They no doubt bungled the Cooper case in hindsight. But I am also not really a fan of the way people sensationalize people like McCoy/Cooper and overlook the violent criminal acts that they committed. That is a topic that we could probably hone in more on as well if we want to.

As for the money that was found. I think that is the best clue in the Cooper case. It leads most people to believe that Cooper lost or discarded the money during the jump. Some would say that the discovered Cooper money makes them believe that Cooper died or discarded some money to throw off the investigation. Others would say that it supports the theory that it was McCoy's reason for doing another highjack. It is crazy that they found the money at all. Makes me wonder if more money is out there buried somewhere.

So.. I would not personally agree with McCoy being a 'good' suspect, but.. I can't argue that there's enough there to have suspicion. I certainly TRY to articulate when talking about this that while *I* don't believe it was him because of the significant differences in the execution of the two hijackings. If you can work past that, I don't have a problem with it. Though.. Admittedly.. People who come out and say "It was McCoy." can certainly get me riled up vs someone who says "I believe/In my opinion it was McCoy". Don't make me start spitting all my venom about TIGHAR again (Amelia Earhardt case) .. But, no matter what, I do leave the door open to the possibility it was him. Again, it's one of those cases that has quite a bit of misinformation around it and.. Just because I don't think he could execute a near perfect hijacking and then a poor one. that's an opinion, not fact. At times.. I do drift from expressing firmly that I'm giving an opinion.

I don't disagree that they are both criminals. Of course they are. However.. On the scale of harm.. Cooper is pretty low. Passengers on the flight didn't know what was going on. So, it was minimal. And. They both stole from insurance companies. Who knows if either had 'real' bombs/hand grenades/etc. I guess here.. Look. They're better than your bank robber who goes in screaming "This is a stick up, everyone down, put all the money in the bag". not much better, but.. I'll talk more about McCoy and 'terrorizing' a bit later on. It's an important difference.

As for the money.. Well, it at least WAS out there somewhere. It didn't get carried to another dimension or anything.. Well.. That we know of.. I guess we can't fully disprove that one either, but, under the current understanding of the universe, that isn't possible. I mean, we can't disprove that Cooper was a time traveler from 2056, technically... But.. Let's keep things in the current realm of understanding of the universe. Whether it was all still in a duffel bag that was dropped, still strapped to Cooper's body in a tree. We don't and probably at this point can't know for sure.

One other thing about the money.. Remember that McCoy, they recovered $499,970 of the $500k he took. Only $30 missing. So, I think you have to believe that he lost the money in the Cooper jump, if you believe they are the same person. I can't see how you really could explain that he hid ~$8k at Tina Bar and kept the rest yet didn't hide any of the money from the second jump. Now.. If you can make that logical leap in your head.. OK.. Too much for my tastes.

Something that I haven't heard a whole lot about.. You can watch countless shows, read any number of books that detail, almost to the minute what Cooper did from the time he got on the plane until the FA went back to see he wasn't there anymore. It's much harder to find that information on McCoy.

It is out there, but, most things you read it's just "He hijacked the plane, jumped out". Boom. Done.

This site has a decent timeline of events.

https://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/

A few things I will point out in that. The desk agent of the airline (This was a United flight as well.. Cooper is THEORIZED to have targeted Northwest) brought an envelope he had left at the ticket counter.. Which contained typed out instructions of what to do.

after he got his envelope back.. He went into the bathroom and stayed there until the pilot came out to get him. He had changed into a disguise while in the bathroom.. again.. Very different. It's been speculated that Cooper was in disguise as well, but.. If he was, he was in disguise from the start. He didn't try pulling a Superman in the plane lavatory. McCoy also stood at the back of the plane with a hand grenade. Passengers alerted the stewardesses and an off duty pilot confronted him, at which time McCoy handed him an envelope labelled "Hijacking Instructions".. as that link points out.. One would certainly hope that was a DIFFERENT envelope than the one the gate agent brought on the plane. Cooper, quietly passed a note to a FA during drink service. Passengers on that flight had no idea they had been hijacked until they got off the plane and were met by the FBI. Again.. This is a HUGE difference, to me. While, I admit, you can do some mental gymnastics, because Cooper handed the note to a FA who thought he was giving her his phone number.. If they were the same that led to a different tact in the second hijacking. I just can't make that fit.

McCoy also had them divert. The plane was going to LAX, he had them divert to San Francisco. Cooper didn't change the flight destination. Another difference here. LAX vs Portland. I mean.. One is one of the largest airports in the world, the other is. Backwoods, by comparison.


Another thing here. McCoy had them remove his bag from the plane. I mean.. Can you imagine? "Hey.. While you're offloading all the passenger luggage, please bring me my bag, here's my claim check". .Apparently, a flight suit and helmet were in that bag.

McCoy also gave a SPECIFIC route.. Whereas Cooper just said "Head to Mexico City".. And when those pilots said they couldn't make it there with the fuel, he agreed to a stop in Reno to refuel. Knowing he wouldn't be on the plane at that time.

McCoy left the ransom note and fingerprints. Cooper left only that tie clip that MIGHT be his and had some DNA that MIGHT be his on it.

Here's one other thing I'll bring up. Remember that McCoy was a Mormon. Rather than break out into song here with a rousing rendition of "I Believe" (Book of Mormon musical. If you haven't seen it.. It's gloriously offensive!) remember that Mormons don't drink or smoke. and that Cooper ordered multiple drinks and smoked.. And not like someone who was smoking and drinking to throw people off. He wasn't grimacing when downing whiskey and coughing while smoking. He had experience. Now.. While mormons don't drink, smoke or even consume caffeine.. I'm sure there are some who do anyway. I mean, Mormons don't generally hijack airplanes, but.. Sure enough..

One other thing.. McCoy's jump was in April. If I'm not mistaken, that was during Daylight Savings Time. The flight was at 5:18pm, he jumped somewhere around dusk, IIRC. Whereas Cooper jumped in full dark. Again.. You could make the valid argument, well, he learned.

And.. Just to continue the Book of Mormon references.. If it does wind up being McCoy.. Well.. All I can say is Hasa Diga Eebowai.


Edit.. I mentioned Portland above. That's where Cooper took off from.. Destination was Seattle. But.. Otherwise, the point remains.

So.. I would not personally agree with McCoy being a 'good' suspect, but.. I can't argue that there's enough there to have suspicion. I certainly TRY to articulate when talking about this that while *I* don't believe it was him because of the significant differences in the execution of the two hijackings. If you can work past that, I don't have a problem with it. Though.. Admittedly.. People who come out and say "It was McCoy." can certainly get me riled up vs someone who says "I believe/In my opinion it was McCoy". Don't make me start spitting all my venom about TIGHAR again (Amelia Earhardt case) .. But, no matter what, I do leave the door open to the possibility it was him. Again, it's one of those cases that has quite a bit of misinformation around it and.. Just because I don't think he could execute a near perfect hijacking and then a poor one. that's an opinion, not fact. At times.. I do drift from expressing firmly that I'm giving an opinion.

I don't disagree that they are both criminals. Of course they are. However.. On the scale of harm.. Cooper is pretty low. Passengers on the flight didn't know what was going on. So, it was minimal. And. They both stole from insurance companies. Who knows if either had 'real' bombs/hand grenades/etc. I guess here.. Look. They're better than your bank robber who goes in screaming "This is a stick up, everyone down, put all the money in the bag". not much better, but.. I'll talk more about McCoy and 'terrorizing' a bit later on. It's an important difference.

As for the money.. Well, it at least WAS out there somewhere. It didn't get carried to another dimension or anything.. Well.. That we know of.. I guess we can't fully disprove that one either, but, under the current understanding of the universe, that isn't possible. I mean, we can't disprove that Cooper was a time traveler from 2056, technically... But.. Let's keep things in the current realm of understanding of the universe. Whether it was all still in a duffel bag that was dropped, still strapped to Cooper's body in a tree. We don't and probably at this point can't know for sure.

One other thing about the money.. Remember that McCoy, they recovered $499,970 of the $500k he took. Only $30 missing. So, I think you have to believe that he lost the money in the Cooper jump, if you believe they are the same person. I can't see how you really could explain that he hid ~$8k at Tina Bar and kept the rest yet didn't hide any of the money from the second jump. Now.. If you can make that logical leap in your head.. OK.. Too much for my tastes.

Something that I haven't heard a whole lot about.. You can watch countless shows, read any number of books that detail, almost to the minute what Cooper did from the time he got on the plane until the FA went back to see he wasn't there anymore. It's much harder to find that information on McCoy.

It is out there, but, most things you read it's just "He hijacked the plane, jumped out". Boom. Done.

This site has a decent timeline of events.

https://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/

A few things I will point out in that. The desk agent of the airline (This was a United flight as well.. Cooper is THEORIZED to have targeted Northwest) brought an envelope he had left at the ticket counter.. Which contained typed out instructions of what to do.

after he got his envelope back.. He went into the bathroom and stayed there until the pilot came out to get him. He had changed into a disguise while in the bathroom.. again.. Very different. It's been speculated that Cooper was in disguise as well, but.. If he was, he was in disguise from the start. He didn't try pulling a Superman in the plane lavatory. McCoy also stood at the back of the plane with a hand grenade. Passengers alerted the stewardesses and an off duty pilot confronted him, at which time McCoy handed him an envelope labelled "Hijacking Instructions".. as that link points out.. One would certainly hope that was a DIFFERENT envelope than the one the gate agent brought on the plane. Cooper, quietly passed a note to a FA during drink service. Passengers on that flight had no idea they had been hijacked until they got off the plane and were met by the FBI. Again.. This is a HUGE difference, to me. While, I admit, you can do some mental gymnastics, because Cooper handed the note to a FA who thought he was giving her his phone number.. If they were the same that led to a different tact in the second hijacking. I just can't make that fit.

McCoy also had them divert. The plane was going to LAX, he had them divert to San Francisco. Cooper didn't change the flight destination. Another difference here. LAX vs Portland. I mean.. One is one of the largest airports in the world, the other is. Backwoods, by comparison.


Another thing here. McCoy had them remove his bag from the plane. I mean.. Can you imagine? "Hey.. While you're offloading all the passenger luggage, please bring me my bag, here's my claim check". .Apparently, a flight suit and helmet were in that bag.

McCoy also gave a SPECIFIC route.. Whereas Cooper just said "Head to Mexico City".. And when those pilots said they couldn't make it there with the fuel, he agreed to a stop in Reno to refuel. Knowing he wouldn't be on the plane at that time.

McCoy left the ransom note and fingerprints. Cooper left only that tie clip that MIGHT be his and had some DNA that MIGHT be his on it.

Here's one other thing I'll bring up. Remember that McCoy was a Mormon. Rather than break out into song here with a rousing rendition of "I Believe" (Book of Mormon musical. If you haven't seen it.. It's gloriously offensive!) remember that Mormons don't drink or smoke. and that Cooper ordered multiple drinks and smoked.. And not like someone who was smoking and drinking to throw people off. He wasn't grimacing when downing whiskey and coughing while smoking. He had experience. Now.. While mormons don't drink, smoke or even consume caffeine.. I'm sure there are some who do anyway. I mean, Mormons don't generally hijack airplanes, but.. Sure enough..

One other thing.. McCoy's jump was in April. If I'm not mistaken, that was during Daylight Savings Time. The flight was at 5:18pm, he jumped somewhere around dusk, IIRC. Whereas Cooper jumped in full dark. Again.. You could make the valid argument, well, he learned.

And.. Just to continue the Book of Mormon references.. If it does wind up being McCoy.. Well.. All I can say is Hasa Diga Eebowai.


Edit.. I mentioned Portland above. That's where Cooper took off from.. Destination was Seattle. But.. Otherwise, the point remains.

good info.that said Cooper did terrorize the flight crew, if we believe the UM segment. I think D.B. stands for d-bag

100%. "Where's the money" and variations about the money are the lynchpin. Even if we disagree on the details of the answers or lack of answers to that. The money is the key.



It's very strong. The chances of it still being in circulation are zero. All money was redesigned back in the 90's and those old bills.. When is the last time you saw one of them? ALL those bills were sent back to the reserve for destruction. The only time you MIGHT run into one of them.. They are, after all, still legal tender, would be if someone found a bill stuck under a floorboard in their house or some weird situation like that.

Of course, then it gets a little dicey pending on whether you consider that "in circulation". I'd define circulation as out there being spent, and.. A $20 stuck behind grandma's picture on the mantle isn't being spent.

The average life of a $20 is about 8 years. that's how long it stays in circulation before it is worn enough to be replaced. Remember that, as I recall, it was all $20's

There's ZERO chance that the money is 'circulating' today. Is there a chance that it's in a duffel bag buried somewhere? Sure. There's also the SMALL chance, because, I don't know how the fed did things back in 1971.. Today, a bill would be scanned when returned to the fed and a computer would alert on the bill. Did they have that tech in 1971? I could see SOME of the bills slipping through, but, not 10,000 of them.



Banks may have stopped. The fed wouldn't. And.. again, an unanswered question is what tech the fed had at the time. People are fallible, but.. Computers would catch it.




And.. This is where I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I think it's unlikely, though.. I will give you that.. It certainly is plausible. Of course.. It's plausible that I'll win the powerball tomorrow night (or whenever the drawing is) but.. Since I have no intention to buy a ticket.. It's REALLY unliklely.



Oh, well, I answered this above. Yeah. The redesign.. And depending on your definition of 'in circulation'.

Just as an example. In my wallet right now.. I have $12. A ten and two singles. I don't carry much cash..

The singles are a series 2017 and 2021

The $10 is 2017.

Now.. Of course, that's a small sample size, but.. It does speak to how quickly money is removed from circulation. Not only that.. Think of inflation. The $20 probably lasted a little longer back in the day.. The old saying that $20 doesn't go as far as it used to certainly applies in multiple ways. I'd bet the bills lasted longer back then because they weren't used as much.

But.. Then again, I suppose we could posit that we don't use near as much cash nowadays, so, maybe it didn't really last longer then. Meaning how long until the bills were worn out.

All that money would have left circulation, my opinion, by the mid 80's at the latest. Many of the bills were already 2-5 years old at that point, so, probably before that. Not considering the outliers that were stuck in some kid's piggybank or similar.

As for the argument they couldn't have been at Tina Bar.. Ok. So. Let's go with that. Now.. My thought would be.. Maybe a heavy rain washed them into the river which then deposited them. Which.. Could have happened anytime in the ~9 years between the jump and their discovery. Perhaps they were in the duffel bag, it finally deteriorated enough for them to come out. Whether the duffel was still on him hanging in a tree, splatted on the ground or whatever.

To me, the argument that someone intentionally put them there and this kid just happened to find them.. Is even harder to believe than they wound up there and the kid happened to find them. Remember as well. These weren't pristine bills the kid found. It was.. Pieces of money.

The problem.. that's STILL a hell of a coincidence for the money to wind up there and be found. I can't deny that. And.. How does the money get there naturally?

With regards to the currency, I tend to think along those lines. What made me think it was possible the money might still be out there circulating is that I read somewhere that the currency would still be viable today and could theoretically be spent, due to the fact US dollars are still valid currency regardless of when they were printed. I even found an online site where you could if you found a $20 bill you suspect might be from the Cooper heist, you could compare the serial numbers and see if it matches one of the missing bills!

However, having given it some thought you are probably right. If Cooper spent the money and it went through regular processes, seems pretty likely if not a given at least some of it if not all of it would have resurfaced at the fed. My thinking was that the retiring of the earlier versions of the currency was not a definitive process and it merely happened to bills that happened to be old and worn rather than them all having a definitive expiration date. But given the fact its been over 50 years now, I have to think you are probably right some of that would have surfaced by now going through the normal processes.

So if we assume the chances of the money still circulating through normal processes are zero or almost zero, then you have to consider the other possibilities. The foremost one being that the rest of it as well as possibly Cooper himself were lost in a body of water whether it was lake Merwyn or the Columbia River and have been damaged so much they are irretrievable. That seems like the most likely possibility, although its the one I think most people hope is not the case since if it is we may never know the whole truth about this which would be disappointing.

The second possibility is that Cooper survived the jump and got away with at least some of the money, but simply did not spend it for whatever reason. In which case the money may still be out there in a basement somewhere. This seems most unlikely, as given the trouble Cooper went through to get it you would think he would have spent it. Unless of course he survived and something happened to him later on before he could spend it. Which again, is possible but unlikely.

The third possibility is that Cooper didn't survive, but the money landed somewhere on land, and might still be out there somewhere in tact but was simply never found. If that is the case, if the money was secured in a bag or a sack it could potentially still be out there. Hell Keith Reinhard's wallet was found on Pendleton Mountain decades after the fact, so it seems plausible. But if it wasn't obviously the elements would have disintegrated it long ago.

I think unfortunately, the first possibility is most likely.

As for those found on Tina Bar, the only reason Cooper would have gone and buried them later is so they would be found and let people think he had not survived. But from what I understand it was buried fairly well and its only a fluke it was found at all, so that seems unlikely. I tend to think it got there naturally somehow and we can't say exactly how due to not knowing exactly where Cooper landed. But, no way to know for sure.

So.. I would not personally agree with McCoy being a 'good' suspect, but.. I can't argue that there's enough there to have suspicion. I certainly TRY to articulate when talking about this that while *I* don't believe it was him because of the significant differences in the execution of the two hijackings. If you can work past that, I don't have a problem with it. Though.. Admittedly.. People who come out and say "It was McCoy." can certainly get me riled up vs someone who says "I believe/In my opinion it was McCoy". Don't make me start spitting all my venom about TIGHAR again (Amelia Earhardt case) .. But, no matter what, I do leave the door open to the possibility it was him. Again, it's one of those cases that has quite a bit of misinformation around it and.. Just because I don't think he could execute a near perfect hijacking and then a poor one. that's an opinion, not fact. At times.. I do drift from expressing firmly that I'm giving an opinion.

I don't disagree that they are both criminals. Of course they are. However.. On the scale of harm.. Cooper is pretty low. Passengers on the flight didn't know what was going on. So, it was minimal. And. They both stole from insurance companies. Who knows if either had 'real' bombs/hand grenades/etc. I guess here.. Look. They're better than your bank robber who goes in screaming "This is a stick up, everyone down, put all the money in the bag". not much better, but.. I'll talk more about McCoy and 'terrorizing' a bit later on. It's an important difference.

As for the money.. Well, it at least WAS out there somewhere. It didn't get carried to another dimension or anything.. Well.. That we know of.. I guess we can't fully disprove that one either, but, under the current understanding of the universe, that isn't possible. I mean, we can't disprove that Cooper was a time traveler from 2056, technically... But.. Let's keep things in the current realm of understanding of the universe. Whether it was all still in a duffel bag that was dropped, still strapped to Cooper's body in a tree. We don't and probably at this point can't know for sure.

One other thing about the money.. Remember that McCoy, they recovered $499,970 of the $500k he took. Only $30 missing. So, I think you have to believe that he lost the money in the Cooper jump, if you believe they are the same person. I can't see how you really could explain that he hid ~$8k at Tina Bar and kept the rest yet didn't hide any of the money from the second jump. Now.. If you can make that logical leap in your head.. OK.. Too much for my tastes.

Something that I haven't heard a whole lot about.. You can watch countless shows, read any number of books that detail, almost to the minute what Cooper did from the time he got on the plane until the FA went back to see he wasn't there anymore. It's much harder to find that information on McCoy.

It is out there, but, most things you read it's just "He hijacked the plane, jumped out". Boom. Done.

This site has a decent timeline of events.

https://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/

A few things I will point out in that. The desk agent of the airline (This was a United flight as well.. Cooper is THEORIZED to have targeted Northwest) brought an envelope he had left at the ticket counter.. Which contained typed out instructions of what to do.

after he got his envelope back.. He went into the bathroom and stayed there until the pilot came out to get him. He had changed into a disguise while in the bathroom.. again.. Very different. It's been speculated that Cooper was in disguise as well, but.. If he was, he was in disguise from the start. He didn't try pulling a Superman in the plane lavatory. McCoy also stood at the back of the plane with a hand grenade. Passengers alerted the stewardesses and an off duty pilot confronted him, at which time McCoy handed him an envelope labelled "Hijacking Instructions".. as that link points out.. One would certainly hope that was a DIFFERENT envelope than the one the gate agent brought on the plane. Cooper, quietly passed a note to a FA during drink service. Passengers on that flight had no idea they had been hijacked until they got off the plane and were met by the FBI. Again.. This is a HUGE difference, to me. While, I admit, you can do some mental gymnastics, because Cooper handed the note to a FA who thought he was giving her his phone number.. If they were the same that led to a different tact in the second hijacking. I just can't make that fit.

McCoy also had them divert. The plane was going to LAX, he had them divert to San Francisco. Cooper didn't change the flight destination. Another difference here. LAX vs Portland. I mean.. One is one of the largest airports in the world, the other is. Backwoods, by comparison.


Another thing here. McCoy had them remove his bag from the plane. I mean.. Can you imagine? "Hey.. While you're offloading all the passenger luggage, please bring me my bag, here's my claim check". .Apparently, a flight suit and helmet were in that bag.

McCoy also gave a SPECIFIC route.. Whereas Cooper just said "Head to Mexico City".. And when those pilots said they couldn't make it there with the fuel, he agreed to a stop in Reno to refuel. Knowing he wouldn't be on the plane at that time.

McCoy left the ransom note and fingerprints. Cooper left only that tie clip that MIGHT be his and had some DNA that MIGHT be his on it.

Here's one other thing I'll bring up. Remember that McCoy was a Mormon. Rather than break out into song here with a rousing rendition of "I Believe" (Book of Mormon musical. If you haven't seen it.. It's gloriously offensive!) remember that Mormons don't drink or smoke. and that Cooper ordered multiple drinks and smoked.. And not like someone who was smoking and drinking to throw people off. He wasn't grimacing when downing whiskey and coughing while smoking. He had experience. Now.. While mormons don't drink, smoke or even consume caffeine.. I'm sure there are some who do anyway. I mean, Mormons don't generally hijack airplanes, but.. Sure enough..

One other thing.. McCoy's jump was in April. If I'm not mistaken, that was during Daylight Savings Time. The flight was at 5:18pm, he jumped somewhere around dusk, IIRC. Whereas Cooper jumped in full dark. Again.. You could make the valid argument, well, he learned.

And.. Just to continue the Book of Mormon references.. If it does wind up being McCoy.. Well.. All I can say is Hasa Diga Eebowai.


Edit.. I mentioned Portland above. That's where Cooper took off from.. Destination was Seattle. But.. Otherwise, the point remains.


You know, something I've never heard discussed is how Cooper might have gotten to the airport. If he drove, then there would have been an abandoned car somewhere at the airport that had to be accounted for. I'm sure the police must have looked for one and found none that could not be traced to a known person, even if it was a rental car.

Unless of course, Cooper survived the jump and was able to sneak back to the airport later and retrieve the car. Even then I'm sure airports had parking areas where you could leave a vehicle for an extended period of time. But you have to think the authorities would have searched the airport for an abandoned car before he could have conceivably made it back to the airport. Also I guess Cooper could have parked somewhere near the airport and went the rest of the way on foot then got back to the car later. I just wonder if any abandoned vehicles were found near the airport around the time of the heist?

If someone dropped Cooper off, then I have to think it must have been an accomplice who knew what he was going to do. If a friend or relative just dropped him off there innocently believing he was boarding the flight for a legit reason, you have to think they would have come forward by now.

So I'd say if Cooper didn't have an accomplice, he got there on his own. And since no car was apparently found it had to be either on foot, bus, or taxi. And you'd think if it was bus or taxi the driver or might have seen him before he got into the airport, but I suppose its not a sure thing that anyone paid attention.

And if he got there on foot, then it means he was living or staying somewhere in the vicinity of the airport, which most likely would have meant either someone disappeared from the area or he rented a room then checked out the day of the flight, but someone still would have to have seen him before he got to the airport.

Just another thing to be considered.

good info.that said Cooper did terrorize the flight crew, if we believe the UM segment. I think D.B. stands for d-bag

Absolutely. I tried not to imply that "Oh, Cooper was such a nice guy".. I mean, he's threatening the FA, and by extension the entire flight crew and all the passengers.. Even if the passengers didn't know it.

With regards to the currency, I tend to think along those lines. What made me think it was possible the money might still be out there circulating is that I read somewhere that the currency would still be viable today and could theoretically be spent, due to the fact US dollars are still valid currency regardless of when they were printed. I even found an online site where you could if you found a $20 bill you suspect might be from the Cooper heist, you could compare the serial numbers and see if it matches one of the missing bills!

However, having given it some thought you are probably right. If Cooper spent the money and it went through regular processes, seems pretty likely if not a given at least some of it if not all of it would have resurfaced at the fed. My thinking was that the retiring of the earlier versions of the currency was not a definitive process and it merely happened to bills that happened to be old and worn rather than them all having a definitive expiration date. But given the fact its been over 50 years now, I have to think you are probably right some of that would have surfaced by now going through the normal processes.

So if we assume the chances of the money still circulating through normal processes are zero or almost zero, then you have to consider the other possibilities. The foremost one being that the rest of it as well as possibly Cooper himself were lost in a body of water whether it was lake Merwyn or the Columbia River and have been damaged so much they are irretrievable. That seems like the most likely possibility, although its the one I think most people hope is not the case since if it is we may never know the whole truth about this which would be disappointing.

The second possibility is that Cooper survived the jump and got away with at least some of the money, but simply did not spend it for whatever reason. In which case the money may still be out there in a basement somewhere. This seems most unlikely, as given the trouble Cooper went through to get it you would think he would have spent it. Unless of course he survived and something happened to him later on before he could spend it. Which again, is possible but unlikely.

The third possibility is that Cooper didn't survive, but the money landed somewhere on land, and might still be out there somewhere in tact but was simply never found. If that is the case, if the money was secured in a bag or a sack it could potentially still be out there. Hell Keith Reinhard's wallet was found on Pendleton Mountain decades after the fact, so it seems plausible. But if it wasn't obviously the elements would have disintegrated it long ago.

I think unfortunately, the first possibility is most likely.

As for those found on Tina Bar, the only reason Cooper would have gone and buried them later is so they would be found and let people think he had not survived. But from what I understand it was buried fairly well and its only a fluke it was found at all, so that seems unlikely. I tend to think it got there naturally somehow and we can't say exactly how due to not knowing exactly where Cooper landed. But, no way to know for sure.

The money is still valid currency today. Now, if you came across one of those bills, you wouldn't want to spend it. One of the pieces of a bill went up for auction a few years back. That $20 bill went for nearly $5k. A tidy little profit. And that was just a small piece of a bill, just enough to read the serial number. If you had a 'circulated' bill that matched the serial numbers from the Cooper hijacking.. i think you're easily looking at tens of thousands of dollars. Now, if you have 9000 of them, that'll drag that value down. But, they'll be worth far more than face value.



You know, something I've never heard discussed is how Cooper might have gotten to the airport. If he drove, then there would have been an abandoned car somewhere at the airport that had to be accounted for. I'm sure the police must have looked for one and found none that could not be traced to a known person, even if it was a rental car.

Unless of course, Cooper survived the jump and was able to sneak back to the airport later and retrieve the car. Even then I'm sure airports had parking areas where you could leave a vehicle for an extended period of time. But you have to think the authorities would have searched the airport for an abandoned car before he could have conceivably made it back to the airport. Also I guess Cooper could have parked somewhere near the airport and went the rest of the way on foot then got back to the car later. I just wonder if any abandoned vehicles were found near the airport around the time of the heist?

If someone dropped Cooper off, then I have to think it must have been an accomplice who knew what he was going to do. If a friend or relative just dropped him off there innocently believing he was boarding the flight for a legit reason, you have to think they would have come forward by now.

So I'd say if Cooper didn't have an accomplice, he got there on his own. And since no car was apparently found it had to be either on foot, bus, or taxi. And you'd think if it was bus or taxi the driver or might have seen him before he got into the airport, but I suppose its not a sure thing that anyone paid attention.

And if he got there on foot, then it means he was living or staying somewhere in the vicinity of the airport, which most likely would have meant either someone disappeared from the area or he rented a room then checked out the day of the flight, but someone still would have to have seen him before he got to the airport.

Just another thing to be considered.

A very interesting thought. I've always had it in my mind that he likely flew in to Portland from elsewhere and probably stayed at an airport hotel. But.. We've never really heard any information about this. One would have to presume that the FBI checked the local hotels and checked flights for a few weeks prior.. Of course.. Remember that this was 1971 and.. Paying in cash was pretty common at the time.

As I recall.. McCoy flew in to Denver and caught the flight. I believe I read that his wife dropped him off at the airport, which I would assume was SLC.

I would love to hear more information on this aspect of the investigation because.. I've never heard anything about it so far as the Cooper flight.

This is additional information on the discovery of DB Coopers alleged parachute. My original comment was based on the article and video. Dan Gryder makes several mistakes in terminology during his narration.

1. Earl Cossey is the correct spelling of the rigger's name.
2. He was murdered April 23, 2013
3. His murder remains unsolved.
Source: www.thesun.com. There are multiple sources for this

One of the DB Cooper sites has a comment on the parachutes. It cites FBI file 64, pages 129-130 as it's source.
1. The rigs were modified NB6.
2. There is a hand written notation correcting 28 to 26
3. There is reference to a 24ft parachute.
4. The parachutes are described as white nylon.

There are many references to one of the parachutes being inoperable.
Most accounts agree a dummy practice reserve was included by accident.

Without the FBI file or the parachute the best I can offer is ASWAG.
I believe both main parachutes were steerable. The 24 ft belly reserve was not steerable.
Round main and reserves can be made directional, stable and more steerable within seconds after opening. The NB6 and NB8 rigs were similar and I honestly couldn't tell you the difference from memory. Wikipedia doesn't really point them out.

You know, having given this some thought, the money itself is an interesting aspect to the case that merits a lot of discussion

One of the foremost arguments Cooper did not survive and the money was lost is that none of it turned up in circulation.

But how strong is this argument really? Lets say Cooper survived and spent the money. What are the odds that the money indeed has gone to various merchants or financial institutions and is even still out there and has simply gone undetected all these years?

To be honest, I don't even know if I know enough to even calculate the odds of that. Given the fact that there are millions upon millions of financial institutions and merchants across the world where it could have been spent and I'm sure a great many of them are not exactly checking serial numbers, in fact I believe if I remember correctly that banks stopped watching for this currency a few years after the heist, it certainly seems feasible.

Then again, if I recall correctly these bills provided to Cooper were all 20's, and they were all printed in the late 1960's. The ransom was $200,000, so that means there were a total of 10,000 bills. If you subtract the ones found on Tina Bar, there are a little more than 9700 unaccounted for. At first glance, it seems plausible 9700 bills could go undetected among the billions out there changing hands.

you also have to take into account how many bills from the 1960's that would resemble these bills are still out there in circulation. I personally have never seen one, but I'm not really rich and don't typically carry a lot of cash. I do know that they changed the design in the late 1990's or early 2000's to a larger portrait of Jackson and that's mostly what you see today. And also I seem to recall that once bills are worn they are sent back to the Fed for shredding. I imagine they check and decommission the serial numbers at that point. So given that none of them have made it back to the Fed apparently, that's a red flag they have not turned up.

But, people have made pretty good arguments that the bills could not have been on Tina Bar since 1971 when the hijacking took place.

One of many reasons this continues to be a frustrating case.
I would say vanishingly small and almost zero. As you also point out, I would have to imagine the federal reserve was logging and tracking the serial numbers of currency taken out of circulation, so for this to be a possibility you would have to assume that all of the ransom bills are still “out there” somewhere in circulation and have never been identified. They are still legal tender so although that is theoretically possible, the odds of 9700 bills of that age all still remaining in circulation with none being decommissioned have to be about as close to zero as you could get.

I would say vanishingly small and almost zero. As you also point out, I would have to imagine the federal reserve was logging and tracking the serial numbers of currency taken out of circulation, so for this to be a possibility you would have to assume that all of the ransom bills are still “out there” somewhere in circulation and have never been identified. They are still legal tender so although that is theoretically possible, the odds of 9700 bills of that age all still remaining in circulation with none being decommissioned have to be about as close to zero as you could get.

yeah Labonte and I pretty much agreed on that after I gave it some thought. Bills going through the normal processes almost certainly would have made it back to the fed by now and been decommissioned. Even if Cooper spent it in another country have to imagine at least a few would have made it back after giving it some thought. I mean, I don't even see bills anymore from the 80's and 90's, much less from the 1960's. The 2000's are about as far back as I see as far as 20's.

Absolutely. I tried not to imply that "Oh, Cooper was such a nice guy".. I mean, he's threatening the FA, and by extension the entire flight crew and all the passengers.. Even if the passengers didn't know it.



The money is still valid currency today. Now, if you came across one of those bills, you wouldn't want to spend it. One of the pieces of a bill went up for auction a few years back. That $20 bill went for nearly $5k. A tidy little profit. And that was just a small piece of a bill, just enough to read the serial number. If you had a 'circulated' bill that matched the serial numbers from the Cooper hijacking.. i think you're easily looking at tens of thousands of dollars. Now, if you have 9000 of them, that'll drag that value down. But, they'll be worth far more than face value.





A very interesting thought. I've always had it in my mind that he likely flew in to Portland from elsewhere and probably stayed at an airport hotel. But.. We've never really heard any information about this. One would have to presume that the FBI checked the local hotels and checked flights for a few weeks prior.. Of course.. Remember that this was 1971 and.. Paying in cash was pretty common at the time.

As I recall.. McCoy flew in to Denver and caught the flight. I believe I read that his wife dropped him off at the airport, which I would assume was SLC.

I would love to hear more information on this aspect of the investigation because.. I've never heard anything about it so far as the Cooper flight.

I didn't even think about Cooper taking a connecting flight into Seattle. But it seems like that would have been mentioned at some point and they would have had a record of it. Unless of course he used a different name which is possible. But I always had the impression he walked into the airport and was not seen boarding from any other flights. Its possible though.

As far as the money goes, yeah I know it would be worth more today due to it being connected to a famous case.

But how many other people would know it? As high profile as the Cooper case is, you'd be surprised how many people don't know about it. Not everyone follows these cases like we do. I remember in one of my college classes one of my instructors mentioned the Cooper case. I can't even remember what brought it up exactly, but he asked the class if anyone knew who DB Cooper was, I was only the one in the class who did know. And this was in the early 2000's. So you can imagine even less people know about it now.

Say a younger person came across that money, given how different bills look today they might not even think its real money. And who knows what they would do? Most younger folks under 35 or so would not even remember bills like that and might think its play money or something. Hard to even tell what they'd do, then again of course they might look at the dates and realize that its older money or show it someone older at some point. But they wouldn't throw it away or anything. But chances are they probably wouldn't connect it with the Cooper case. I would imagine they might spend it and then those bills would turn up again.

I honestly don't know what most people would do, but the chances of someone connecting it with the Cooper case may be slimmer than you think.

I didn't even think about Cooper taking a connecting flight into Seattle. But it seems like that would have been mentioned at some point and they would have had a record of it. Unless of course he used a different name which is possible. But I always had the impression he walked into the airport and was not seen boarding from any other flights. Its possible though.

As far as the money goes, yeah I know it would be worth more today due to it being connected to a famous case.

But how many other people would know it? As high profile as the Cooper case is, you'd be surprised how many people don't know about it. Not everyone follows these cases like we do. I remember in one of my college classes one of my instructors mentioned the Cooper case. I can't even remember what brought it up exactly, but he asked the class if anyone knew who DB Cooper was, I was only the one in the class who did know. And this was in the early 2000's. So you can imagine even less people know about it now.

Say a younger person came across that money, given how different bills look today they might not even think its real money. And who knows what they would do? Most younger folks under 35 or so would not even remember bills like that and might think its play money or something. Hard to even tell what they'd do, then again of course they might look at the dates and realize that its older money or show it someone older at some point. But they wouldn't throw it away or anything. But chances are they probably wouldn't connect it with the Cooper case. I would imagine they might spend it and then those bills would turn up again.

I honestly don't know what most people would do, but the chances of someone connecting it with the Cooper case may be slimmer than you think.

You've brought up some very good things I want to touch on here. But.. one mistake.. Which I myself have made before..

He got on the plane in Portland, heading to Seattle. That's where he hijacked it. They had to circle Seattle for a while.. Then the final leg was Seattle to.. what was it? Mexico City he wanted to go to? They said they'd have to stop in Reno, and did.. But, the flight crew knew he was gone at that point.

Not knocking you on that.. I have made the same mistake before, but.. Just pointing it out so that we're as factual as we can be.


If anyone finds any information about how he got to Portland.. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. The devil is in the details, as we can see from the details of the McCoy hijacking which makes me think McCoy was just a poor copycat. I suspect.. They just don't know. Which.. Leaves it up to us to imagine. All options are on the table. He could have flown into Portland that day. Days or weeks previously. He could have driven. He could have been a local.

You bring up a good point that I've mentioned before, if not here, on other topics. Those old bills stick out like a sore thumb now. I haven't seen one in.. Probably 10 years. They made a concerted effort to get the old bills out of circulation because the new bills were "counterfeit-proof". As I recall, there was nothing really different about a 1969 series $20 bill and a 1999. One would probably look much newer, but that is it. Correction. A 1996 series. Because the new $20 went into circulation in 1998.

There's a little mom and pop pizza shop near my house. I went in there one day, and they had a $20 taped up on the counter with "This is fake money".. It was a 1950 series $10 bill, Gold Certificate as I recall, and had some red ink, which.. Has been rare all my life and I was born in 1973. At least, I think it did. It's still there, with the same note to this day. Back in 1950.. The paper was different. The counterfeit detector pens didn't work on those bills. So, they ran their pen over it, it turned black.. Fake money. Wrong. It was real, still valid.. AND.. Probably worth more than $10. It was.. pretty worn.. Whether that was from being on their counter or they got it that way, I don't know. So.. In that condition, it wasn't worth much more than $10.. Maybe $12. But, collectors eat that stuff up.

While I agree that someone from the general population probably wouldn't make the connection. You can damn sure bet that the fed would. This is.. Something that I don't know all the details on, but I will lay money that the money that comes back is all scanned and checked against serial numbers that are set to "Be on the lookout for" and the Cooper money would certainly be on that list. Now, it's all computers scanning it. If one of those bills made it back to the fed from the 80's on.. It would have been caught. I like to imagine with red lights blinking and alarms going "woop...woop"

I don't know how things happened in the 70's, but.. It's the government. They had the money to spend.. And it was the fed as well.. If they didn't have the money, they'd print it! So.. I suspect they had systems in place to do the same then. Perhaps not as fast, perhaps not as accurate..

FWIW.. Thanks to everyone. I love having good, productive (or whatever it is) conversations about cases like this. Where we're not arguing with each other, but.. Just getting as much of the facts out as we can. We're all going to have our opinions, and.. None of us knows if our opinions are right.. And.. We keep an open mind that.. We could be wrong.

You've brought up some very good things I want to touch on here. But.. one mistake.. Which I myself have made before..

He got on the plane in Portland, heading to Seattle. That's where he hijacked it. They had to circle Seattle for a while.. Then the final leg was Seattle to.. what was it? Mexico City he wanted to go to? They said they'd have to stop in Reno, and did.. But, the flight crew knew he was gone at that point.

Not knocking you on that.. I have made the same mistake before, but.. Just pointing it out so that we're as factual as we can be.


If anyone finds any information about how he got to Portland.. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. The devil is in the details, as we can see from the details of the McCoy hijacking which makes me think McCoy was just a poor copycat. I suspect.. They just don't know. Which.. Leaves it up to us to imagine. All options are on the table. He could have flown into Portland that day. Days or weeks previously. He could have driven. He could have been a local.

You bring up a good point that I've mentioned before, if not here, on other topics. Those old bills stick out like a sore thumb now. I haven't seen one in.. Probably 10 years. They made a concerted effort to get the old bills out of circulation because the new bills were "counterfeit-proof". As I recall, there was nothing really different about a 1969 series $20 bill and a 1999. One would probably look much newer, but that is it. Correction. A 1996 series. Because the new $20 went into circulation in 1998.

There's a little mom and pop pizza shop near my house. I went in there one day, and they had a $20 taped up on the counter with "This is fake money".. It was a 1950 series $10 bill, Gold Certificate as I recall, and had some red ink, which.. Has been rare all my life and I was born in 1973. At least, I think it did. It's still there, with the same note to this day. Back in 1950.. The paper was different. The counterfeit detector pens didn't work on those bills. So, they ran their pen over it, it turned black.. Fake money. Wrong. It was real, still valid.. AND.. Probably worth more than $10. It was.. pretty worn.. Whether that was from being on their counter or they got it that way, I don't know. So.. In that condition, it wasn't worth much more than $10.. Maybe $12. But, collectors eat that stuff up.

While I agree that someone from the general population probably wouldn't make the connection. You can damn sure bet that the fed would. This is.. Something that I don't know all the details on, but I will lay money that the money that comes back is all scanned and checked against serial numbers that are set to "Be on the lookout for" and the Cooper money would certainly be on that list. Now, it's all computers scanning it. If one of those bills made it back to the fed from the 80's on.. It would have been caught. I like to imagine with red lights blinking and alarms going "woop...woop"

I don't know how things happened in the 70's, but.. It's the government. They had the money to spend.. And it was the fed as well.. If they didn't have the money, they'd print it! So.. I suspect they had systems in place to do the same then. Perhaps not as fast, perhaps not as accurate..

FWIW.. Thanks to everyone. I love having good, productive (or whatever it is) conversations about cases like this. Where we're not arguing with each other, but.. Just getting as much of the facts out as we can. We're all going to have our opinions, and.. None of us knows if our opinions are right.. And.. We keep an open mind that.. We could be wrong.

Oh yes that's what keeps it interesting. And you are correct about Portland, I often get those two mixed up.

From this discussion, I think we can agree that whatever happened to Cooper he very likely did not spend the money. The chances of the money being spent and having gone undetected all these years we can agree are pretty slim to none.

So from that, its easy to assume that Cooper didn't survive.

But having again given this some thought, I have to figure it is equally or almost equally noteworthy that there was no report of anyone disappearing and never returning around the time of the hijacking. Yes its a big country but not quite as big at that time, and the possibility Cooper could have been Canadian widens the scope somewhat. But my understanding is that law enforcement in Canada and the US often have cooperated over the years especially the FBI probably deals with him. And I'm sure they looked into the possibility he was Canadian.

But even then, it was a big country so that no one was reported missing at that time who matched Cooper's description is not impossible and may even have somewhat decent odds, at least more so than the ransom money not turning up after all these years. Its very possible those who knew Cooper simply never connected the dots.

However, according to the flight attendants, Cooper seemed relatively personable. Not the type of guy who would deprive himself of human contact or been a recluse. I have to imagine even if he wasn't married and didn't have much contact with his immediate family or didn't have any, he probably had friends, acquaintances, business partners, or probably a girlfriend. So I'm fairly certain if Cooper did not survive that someone noticed Cooper's absence whether it was family or friends. And he did take pains to not be identified as well taking back his ransom notes among other things. This is of course assuming he did not survive the jump. I think its likely someone noticed he was gone, but far less likely that no one connected the dots after all these years. This leads me to think he survived, and simply lost the money. I honestly think right now that is the most likely scenario. I also think he had some experience with skydiving or parachutes or he never would have risked this. If he landed in a body of water with a heavy current, this would make sense. He might have had to swim ashore to save himself and could not hold onto the money. and it would also explain why some of it surfaced where it did. Most people agree the money on Tina Bar got there naturally in some way and was not deliberately buried.

So imagine you are Cooper, you pulled off the skyjack but lost the money. That would probably be pretty embarrassing. If Cooper was not a career criminal and just doing this out of some desperation, this is the type of thing that could cause you to have a come to Jesus moment and decide this is not for you. I think he might have decided to cut his losses and just find some other way out of his debts or whatever caused him to do this. He would probably know that he had folk hero status have a good laugh about it and be content with that. But of course would take pains not to get caught and not only have prison time for stealing money he didn't get to spend but to go through the embarrassment.

Of course this is all just speculation. I get the sense Cooper may not have necessarily been a career criminal, but really more of a maverick who may have lived on the fringes of the law and like the ladies and the good life. Might have been a gambler in the mold of a Stephen Paddock, (though obviously not with nearly as serious problems or a danger to shoot 60 some people, strange case huh?) I would definitely look at someone who might have had a bad run of luck in Vegas in the months leading up to the hijacking.

Another unfortunate thing is that the Mt St Helens eruption in 1980 may have wiped out any evidence that may have still been out there. I wonder how far Tina Bar is from Mt St Helens? May have to look that up. So it seems the DNA on the tie clip is the best chance. IF they can do a GED match on it, find someone in the family tree who was in their mid 40's around the time, had financial problems, ties to the northwest and experience skydiving, you probably got your man and this can finally be put to rest. Unfortunately we will probably never know the whole truth since I have to assume whatever happened to Cooper he's probably no longer with us now. But I think its possible he could be identified and may even turn out to be one of the suspects they had.

Oh yes that's what keeps it interesting. And you are correct about Portland, I often get those two mixed up.

From this discussion, I think we can agree that whatever happened to Cooper he very likely did not spend the money. The chances of the money being spent and having gone undetected all these years we can agree are pretty slim to none.

So from that, its easy to assume that Cooper didn't survive.

Agreed. That's where my mind goes, certainly. Now, it does bear mentioning that.. There's always possibilities. So, while I don't give much belief to it.. I do have to keep the thought in mind that.. It is at least possible that he survived and.. Lived by burning the money in his little Unabomber shack in the woods or something

Not likely. But, I can't disprove it.



But having again given this some thought, I have to figure it is equally or almost equally noteworthy that there was no report of anyone disappearing and never returning around the time of the hijacking. Yes its a big country but not quite as big at that time, and the possibility Cooper could have been Canadian widens the scope somewhat. But my understanding is that law enforcement in Canada and the US often have cooperated over the years especially the FBI probably deals with him. And I'm sure they looked into the possibility he was Canadian.

But even then, it was a big country so that no one was reported missing at that time who matched Cooper's description is not impossible and may even have somewhat decent odds, at least more so than the ransom money not turning up after all these years. Its very possible those who knew Cooper simply never connected the dots.


Several good points here. But.. I'll remind.. It was the 1970's. The world was not as connected. To prove a point..

https://www.foxcarolina.com/2024/06/07/significant-breakthrough-made-greenville-county-cold-case/

That's a local case to me. A body found in 1975 was just identified a few months ago.

Additionally.. There were some tensions between the US and Canada at the time, as I mentioned before.. So.. It's at least plausible, especially if there was no thought that the person was Canadian, that the dots would be connected. Again, I go back to the case I was a part of, Lori Jane Reaves, who was missing for a number of years because of a SSN being 1 digit off and the last name being spelled "Reaves" vs "Reeves"..



However, according to the flight attendants, Cooper seemed relatively personable. Not the type of guy who would deprive himself of human contact or been a recluse. I have to imagine even if he wasn't married and didn't have much contact with his immediate family or didn't have any, he probably had friends, acquaintances, business partners, or probably a girlfriend. So I'm fairly certain if Cooper did not survive that someone noticed Cooper's absence whether it was family or friends. And he did take pains to not be identified as well taking back his ransom notes among other things. This is of course assuming he did not survive the jump. I think its likely someone noticed he was gone, but far less likely that no one connected the dots after all these years. This leads me to think he survived, and simply lost the money. I honestly think right now that is the most likely scenario. I also think he had some experience with skydiving or parachutes or he never would have risked this. If he landed in a body of water with a heavy current, this would make sense. He might have had to swim ashore to save himself and could not hold onto the money. and it would also explain why some of it surfaced where it did. Most people agree the money on Tina Bar got there naturally in some way and was not deliberately buried.

So imagine you are Cooper, you pulled off the skyjack but lost the money. That would probably be pretty embarrassing. If Cooper was not a career criminal and just doing this out of some desperation, this is the type of thing that could cause you to have a come to Jesus moment and decide this is not for you. I think he might have decided to cut his losses and just find some other way out of his debts or whatever caused him to do this. He would probably know that he had folk hero status have a good laugh about it and be content with that. But of course would take pains not to get caught and not only have prison time for stealing money he didn't get to spend but to go through the embarrassment.

Of course this is all just speculation. I get the sense Cooper may not have necessarily been a career criminal, but really more of a maverick who may have lived on the fringes of the law and like the ladies and the good life. Might have been a gambler in the mold of a Stephen Paddock, (though obviously not with nearly as serious problems or a danger to shoot 60 some people, strange case huh?) I would definitely look at someone who might have had a bad run of luck in Vegas in the months leading up to the hijacking.

Another unfortunate thing is that the Mt St Helens eruption in 1980 may have wiped out any evidence that may have still been out there. I wonder how far Tina Bar is from Mt St Helens? May have to look that up. So it seems the DNA on the tie clip is the best chance. IF they can do a GED match on it, find someone in the family tree who was in their mid 40's around the time, had financial problems, ties to the northwest and experience skydiving, you probably got your man and this can finally be put to rest. Unfortunately we will probably never know the whole truth since I have to assume whatever happened to Cooper he's probably no longer with us now. But I think its possible he could be identified and may even turn out to be one of the suspects they had.

Can't argue any of what you said. I personally put more faith in "Jump and Splat" vs he lost the money and blended back into society.. But.. That theory is 100% valid.

I think that is the basic premise behind some of the other suspects. We've been talking about McCoy here because many people believe it's him.. But he's not the only suspect. There have been a number of people who said they were Cooper on their deathbeds. None really credible. And, just a side note.. I don't get that at all. Maybe they think they'll bring some money to their families by claiming they were Cooper? I dunno.


Did you know that John List is considered a suspect by some? Yeah. That John List. The main reason being the timing. He killed his family 2 weeks before the hijacking and the money he took from his mothers bank account was $200k.. The same as the hijacking demand. Not very strong evidence.

Robert Rackstraw has been on the radar of a number of people. And I think Discovery did a special where the people putting this theory forward flat out harassed this poor guy. I mean, they were wrapping ass around elbow to make the facts fit. Their entire theory was like something you'd hear from a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. George Bush has 9 letters in his name, 9.. Flight 11.. 11. It all adds up! Literally, so convoluted that if they spent half the effort into coming up with all this crazy crap into curing cancer..

Lynn Cooper is actually.. To me, if you're outside of the jump and splat and want to talk other suspects.. He.. Is interesting. No DNA match, but.. You can't really rely on that. As I recall, he looked similar.. Passable, at least. Though I believe one of the FA's said it wasn't him. And, of course, you have the old question that you must ask.. "Where's the money?"


Again.. I find it fun to talk about other suspects, because.. If I leave the option open that he survived, which.. I feel I have to. Small window, but, it's there. Then.. Sure. It's fun to talk about why any of these people COULD have possibly been Cooper.

Agreed. That's where my mind goes, certainly. Now, it does bear mentioning that.. There's always possibilities. So, while I don't give much belief to it.. I do have to keep the thought in mind that.. It is at least possible that he survived and.. Lived by burning the money in his little Unabomber shack in the woods or something

Not likely. But, I can't disprove it.




Several good points here. But.. I'll remind.. It was the 1970's. The world was not as connected. To prove a point..

https://www.foxcarolina.com/2024/06/07/significant-breakthrough-made-greenville-county-cold-case/

That's a local case to me. A body found in 1975 was just identified a few months ago.

Additionally.. There were some tensions between the US and Canada at the time, as I mentioned before.. So.. It's at least plausible, especially if there was no thought that the person was Canadian, that the dots would be connected. Again, I go back to the case I was a part of, Lori Jane Reaves, who was missing for a number of years because of a SSN being 1 digit off and the last name being spelled "Reaves" vs "Reeves"..




Can't argue any of what you said. I personally put more faith in "Jump and Splat" vs he lost the money and blended back into society.. But.. That theory is 100% valid.

I think that is the basic premise behind some of the other suspects. We've been talking about McCoy here because many people believe it's him.. But he's not the only suspect. There have been a number of people who said they were Cooper on their deathbeds. None really credible. And, just a side note.. I don't get that at all. Maybe they think they'll bring some money to their families by claiming they were Cooper? I dunno.


Did you know that John List is considered a suspect by some? Yeah. That John List. The main reason being the timing. He killed his family 2 weeks before the hijacking and the money he took from his mothers bank account was $200k.. The same as the hijacking demand. Not very strong evidence.

Robert Rackstraw has been on the radar of a number of people. And I think Discovery did a special where the people putting this theory forward flat out harassed this poor guy. I mean, they were wrapping ass around elbow to make the facts fit. Their entire theory was like something you'd hear from a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. George Bush has 9 letters in his name, 9.. Flight 11.. 11. It all adds up! Literally, so convoluted that if they spent half the effort into coming up with all this crazy crap into curing cancer..

Lynn Cooper is actually.. To me, if you're outside of the jump and splat and want to talk other suspects.. He.. Is interesting. No DNA match, but.. You can't really rely on that. As I recall, he looked similar.. Passable, at least. Though I believe one of the FA's said it wasn't him. And, of course, you have the old question that you must ask.. "Where's the money?"


Again.. I find it fun to talk about other suspects, because.. If I leave the option open that he survived, which.. I feel I have to. Small window, but, it's there. Then.. Sure. It's fun to talk about why any of these people COULD have possibly been Cooper.

I know its been awhile since we touched on this thread. But I came across a podcast on this I thought was pertinent.

I still am not sure if you can mention the actual site on here or post the link on here, but the podcaster is called D.B Cooper Sleuth. Google it and you can probably find it. He has been researching the Cooper case for years and done a lot of videos on it. He in fact did a commentary video on the Unsolved Mysteries Cooper episode, even was somewhat critical of the actor's job who played Cooper, compared him to Yosemite Sam due to his southern accent and rather crisp manner which didn't match Cooper who had no discernable accent. I thought it was kinda funny. :lol: I imagine they used that actor to make Cooper seem a little more forceful than he actually was.

According to him, he dismissed the whole argument about the bills not turning up in circulation, arguing that the FED did not start scanning serial numbers of bills returning to them until the 1990's. And that in the early 70's the only entities who were likely watching for these bills would have been banks on the West Coast. I don't know how accurate this is, but if you ever have time I would give him a watch. Hard to dismiss him altogether as he seems pretty well versed on the case.

JAMESG posted the link to Newsweek. Newsweek has a link to an hour long documentary on finding the alleged DB Cooper parachute rig at the McCoy farm in Cove City NC. I highly recommend reading the article and viewing the video.Yes Jimmy gives us good stuff to read!!



Lets be honest guys.. We dont know if the real DB cooper is still here!!

If he was that complex in doing what he did,he may be!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpeylnSDuyI

This guy is dedicated to debunking and correcting DB Cooper mythos. Here he goes over the UM segment and explains what they got wrong.

- The big takeaway is that Cooper had another bag with him, which UM and most other places never mention. DB could have had rope and any of "tools" needed to secure the money.

- There's a bunch of little details besides that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpeylnSDuyI

This guy is dedicated to debunking and correcting DB Cooper mythos. Here he goes over the UM segment and explains what they got wrong.

- The big takeaway is that Cooper had another bag with him, which UM and most other places never mention. DB could have had rope and any of "tools" needed to secure the money.

- There's a bunch of little details besides that.

I can't watch it at the moment, but is this just about him having the 'dummy' parachute?

IIRC, he was delivered 4 chutes.. 2 of them he cut up, seemingly to secure the money.

Of the two that were left.. They appear to have been taken with him. One of those was a 'dummy' chute used for training on the ground.. It was basically sealed up.

So, we don't fully know whether he jumped with the real or dummy chute strapped to his back.

The fact that $5k was found.. Either shows he didn't secure the money well, even with the 'tools' he had, or.. The crazy theory that he went back and planted that money.. Which just seems way too much for me to believe.

I still think he went splat.. But, I can't prove it, so.. I can't prove anyone wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpeylnSDuyI

This guy is dedicated to debunking and correcting DB Cooper mythos. Here he goes over the UM segment and explains what they got wrong.

- The big takeaway is that Cooper had another bag with him, which UM and most other places never mention. DB could have had rope and any of "tools" needed to secure the money.

- There's a bunch of little details besides that.

Excellent video: would love if he could do the same to every segment on UM, even though they generally did great reenactments I am confident we could create a very long thread similar to this video about literally every segment.

Not specifically UM, but I know my illusions were shattered in the mid 1990s when watching a Rescue 911 episode that was based here in Nova Scotia. They specifically named a gas station (Irving Big Stop) in the segment and the reenactment shows a tiny, run down station when in reality Big Stops are just that: large service stations with a big convenience store & restaurant and ample truck parking. Before that point I just assumed the reenactments were close to 100% accurate but they could not have gotten it more wrong.

Yes a g00d video!!

I can't watch it at the moment, but is this just about him having the 'dummy' parachute?

IIRC, he was delivered 4 chutes.. 2 of them he cut up, seemingly to secure the money.

Of the two that were left.. They appear to have been taken with him. One of those was a 'dummy' chute used for training on the ground.. It was basically sealed up.

So, we don't fully know whether he jumped with the real or dummy chute strapped to his back.

The fact that $5k was found.. Either shows he didn't secure the money well, even with the 'tools' he had, or.. The crazy theory that he went back and planted that money.. Which just seems way too much for me to believe.

I still think he went splat.. But, I can't prove it, so.. I can't prove anyone wrong.

He posted the same video I was talking about when I revived the thread, thank you Arnold Old School by the way. I wasn't sure we were allowed to post those on here but I guess we can.

If you haven't had a chance to watch it his main contentions are that the money not turning up in circulation is pretty much a non issue for the reasons stated above, will have to do some more research on this because many others have said its a smoking gun he didn't spend it. Be nice to get some definitive answers on this

He believes DB Cooper survived. Two of the other primary arguments are that he believes that Cooper landed in a more populated area than people think and it would not have been hard to get back to civilization. Basically he thinks its the county just north of Portland in Washington state and argues its more residential than people think.

He also seems to have a healthy respect for parachutes and their capacity to work.

There are other arguments he's made to, though I'm not really thinking of them right now, they may merit discussion later.

But my personal take on his parachute argument is basically this: Cooper came off as personable, articulate, calm and in control according to the flight attendants. I just have a hard time believing he would have attempted this without some knowledge of parachutes and operating them. And from what I can understand he took the one that was consistent with what someone familiar with military chutes rather than civilian ones would have taken. That may or may not be significant.

But you seem to contend that Cooper might have strapped on the dummy chute, which would have been either colossal bad luck or stupidity, depending on how obvious the dummy chute would have been. I simply don't know enough about parachutes to say either way, but I'm assuming that someone with knowledge of chutes could tell couldn't they? As a question for anyone with knowledge of these chutes is a dummy chute obvious and something someone with rudimentary knowledge of skydiving could spot, or is it something only a pro could spot? If its not that obvious I suppose Cooper could have strapped that one on. But you'd think even if he had done it, he would have strapped the second one on as well, a precaution even an inexperienced skydiver would have taken.

As for his argument over where Cooper landed, that in my view is weaker because no one really knows for sure where he landed, they only have a general idea. Far as I can tell with that area, the survivability of the drop spot could have differed greatly based on a few miles. He also seems to feel regardless of where Cooper landed he was near interstate 5 which would have served as a waypoint. But unless he landed within earshot of the traffic or within view of it, he did not know where he was exactly and could have easily taken the wrong angle or direction.

He also could have had a compass with him, but even that wouldn't have done him any good without knowing exactly where he was. Its noteworthy that Cooper never asked for a specific flight path so he would have had no way of knowing where he was jumping into. According to the crew he had to have jumped between 8:10 pm or 8:15 pm, which would have put him on the ground no later than 8:30 PM or so, increasing the chance he should have been observed if he landed in a populated area since most people would still be awake. However this was in November, so it would have been dark by that time so someone seeing him was not certain even in a residential area.

Also notable all his copycats survived.

In my view, it just all comes down if his chute worked and where he landed. But there is just no way of knowing either which is why it continues to be a frustrating case.

Yes Jimmy gives us good stuff to read!!



Lets be honest guys.. We dont know if the real DB cooper is still here!!

If he was that complex in doing what he did,he may be!!

Excellent video and well done. Worth the watch.

Yes thank you Jimmy!!

This case is fascinating :)

He posted the same video I was talking about when I revived the thread, thank you Arnold Old School by the way. I wasn't sure we were allowed to post those on here but I guess we can.

If you haven't had a chance to watch it his main contentions are that the money not turning up in circulation is pretty much a non issue for the reasons stated above, will have to do some more research on this because many others have said its a smoking gun he didn't spend it. Be nice to get some definitive answers on this

He believes DB Cooper survived. Two of the other primary arguments are that he believes that Cooper landed in a more populated area than people think and it would not have been hard to get back to civilization. Basically he thinks its the county just north of Portland in Washington state and argues its more residential than people think.

He also seems to have a healthy respect for parachutes and their capacity to work.

There are other arguments he's made to, though I'm not really thinking of them right now, they may merit discussion later.

But my personal take on his parachute argument is basically this: Cooper came off as personable, articulate, calm and in control according to the flight attendants. I just have a hard time believing he would have attempted this without some knowledge of parachutes and operating them. And from what I can understand he took the one that was consistent with what someone familiar with military chutes rather than civilian ones would have taken. That may or may not be significant.

But you seem to contend that Cooper might have strapped on the dummy chute, which would have been either colossal bad luck or stupidity, depending on how obvious the dummy chute would have been. I simply don't know enough about parachutes to say either way, but I'm assuming that someone with knowledge of chutes could tell couldn't they? As a question for anyone with knowledge of these chutes is a dummy chute obvious and something someone with rudimentary knowledge of skydiving could spot, or is it something only a pro could spot? If its not that obvious I suppose Cooper could have strapped that one on. But you'd think even if he had done it, he would have strapped the second one on as well, a precaution even an inexperienced skydiver would have taken.

As for his argument over where Cooper landed, that in my view is weaker because no one really knows for sure where he landed, they only have a general idea. Far as I can tell with that area, the survivability of the drop spot could have differed greatly based on a few miles. He also seems to feel regardless of where Cooper landed he was near interstate 5 which would have served as a waypoint. But unless he landed within earshot of the traffic or within view of it, he did not know where he was exactly and could have easily taken the wrong angle or direction.

He also could have had a compass with him, but even that wouldn't have done him any good without knowing exactly where he was. Its noteworthy that Cooper never asked for a specific flight path so he would have had no way of knowing where he was jumping into. According to the crew he had to have jumped between 8:10 pm or 8:15 pm, which would have put him on the ground no later than 8:30 PM or so, increasing the chance he should have been observed if he landed in a populated area since most people would still be awake. However this was in November, so it would have been dark by that time so someone seeing him was not certain even in a residential area.

Also notable all his copycats survived.

In my view, it just all comes down if his chute worked and where he landed. But there is just no way of knowing either which is why it continues to be a frustrating case.

One of the chutes delivered to the plane was a dummy chute. Sewn shut. Yes.. An experienced jumper would have noticed that. It was taken to the plane by mistake, this wasn't some grand scheme or anything, just.. They had to get 4 chutes quickly and someone made a mistake.

From what I've seen on it, the 'dummy' chute was NOT one that was left behind/cut up on the plane. So.. If it wasn't left on the plane. He took it with him.

Why? Why would you take a dummy chute if you knew that's what it was? There's just.. Zero reason. Now, we don't know if he wore that chute as a main or had it as a backup.. But, the fact that he took it. I mean.. We could guess here that he found it, got mad and threw it out of the plane.. Doesn't really fit his temperment, does it?


No one knows where he landed because no one knows where he jumped. the only real things we know are where the placard from the plane was found.. That could have blown out any time after the door was opened, so it doesn't tell us the earliest or latest time he could have jumped.. And.. As I recall, it was just a laminated piece of paper, which would flutter around quite a bit and for quite a distance coming down from 10k feet.


His copycats survived because they didn't jump at night, in the rain, into forest, in a business suit.. Hell.. The McCoy angle, as I've said before.. That one I give almost no credence to.. Comparing the two is like comparing Coke to Chek Cola. One is just far superior to the other. McCoy was a bumbling idiot.. As I recall, he was hitchhiking down the road in his jump suit while his hijacking was all over the news and that was one of the main reasons he was caught.

Now, it's also important to remember that the majority of Cooper copycats.. Never jumped. But.. Of those that did..

Richard LaPoint.. Army experience. Jumped over northern Colorado. Go look at the terrain. There's two things there. Plains and mountains.. He didn't jump over the mountains. He was captured shortly after his jump when they tracked him by his footprints in the snow. Daylight jump. Into basically clear terrain.

Merlyn St George.. Crapped his pants when it came time to jump and asked for a car.

Frederick Hahneman is an interesting one. Jumped over the Honduras. Into thick vegetation, much like Cooper at night as well.. However.. 2 differences here to me.. first, he jumped about 4am in May.. So, sunrise would only have been about 2 hours away, much different than Cooper jumping just as night took hold. Also, the weather was apparently clear. The temps in Honduras at the time would also have been.. Well, he'd have been more at risk of heat stroke than hypothermia. The other reason this one is really interesting.. He was just a regular guy.. I mean, he was nuts, but he had no real training. Again, interesting, doesn't say anything, because i think Cooper was likely Canadian military.. That's my theory.

Robb Heady.. I'm not familiar with this one.. Wikipedia says the pilot changed the heading causing him to miss his drop zone.. I'll have to read up on it. This guy was 22.

Martin McNally.. Jumped over Peru, IN.. Again, pull that up on Google Maps.. Hardly a tree in sight.

In short.. None of them tried as technically challenging a jump as Cooper, with the exception of Hahneman.. 50 years old. jumping at night over the jungles of Honduras? Yeah.. Credit where it's due. You want to argue with someone saying "There's no way he could have survived".. You put that Hahneman jump out. That's the one where even I say.. I think he went splat, but.. I have to admit there's a chance he made it.

Now.. I didn't know about this one, just found it looking up all the copycats.. You are incorrect in saying that all of them survived.. But.. I won't hold this one against you.. Read up on it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_812

So there is no way you can open a dummy chute and use it???

Not specifically UM, but I know my illusions were shattered in the mid 1990s when watching a Rescue 911 episode that was based here in Nova Scotia. They specifically named a gas station (Irving Big Stop) in the segment and the reenactment shows a tiny, run down station when in reality Big Stops are just that: large service stations with a big convenience store & restaurant and ample truck parking. Before that point I just assumed the reenactments were close to 100% accurate but they could not have gotten it more wrong.

Yeah I get ya, I’m learning this about UM itself too. Most of these cases delved into lately are revealing so much more information than UM used in their segments, leaving me like “say what??” I get when you are filming a short 15 minute segment about a case you really have to pick and choose what you feature. But much of this new information has changed how I feel about many things including the view of certain suspects. I didn’t think UM was skewing my views quite like that. Then again, the show is more about mysteries so that is the view they had while investigating potential stories.

So there is no way you can open a dummy chute and use it???

You'd probably have to ask an experienced skydiver - or better yet, an experienced rigger.. One familiar with the chutes used.

My theory on it, and that's all this is and I am not an experienced skydiver...

The chute was sewn shut, so.. Based on that, I would presume if you cut the stitches. And assuming the chute was packed properly.. It could be used. Was this packed with the intention of it being used as a 'dummy' chute? In that case, it might not have been packed properly. Or, was this a properly packed chute that was chosen to be sewn shut?


Could or would you 'undummy' it at 10k feet with $200k in cash strapped to you when you had three other good chutes?

Any way you look at that.. I don't see using it being a good idea. Why take the chance? Was this chute 'retired' due to age? If so.. Not one I'd want to use. I can give you multiple reasons to not use it. I can only give you one to use it.. That being.. No other choice. He had three other choices.

Not specifically UM, but I know my illusions were shattered in the mid 1990s when watching a Rescue 911 episode that was based here in Nova Scotia. They specifically named a gas station (Irving Big Stop) in the segment and the reenactment shows a tiny, run down station when in reality Big Stops are just that: large service stations with a big convenience store & restaurant and ample truck parking. Before that point I just assumed the reenactments were close to 100% accurate but they could not have gotten it more wrong.

I meant to reply to this before.. A buddy of mine was part of the crew that responded to an emergency that was recreated on Rescue 911. It was up in the Berea area of Greenville, SC.. He was a firefighter and they were the first ones on scene.. As i recall, it was a guy who dove into his swimming pool and broke his neck

https://rescue911.fandom.com/wiki/Cannonball_Kid

That's it. he said the re-enactment was pretty accurate.. They didn't use the same house / same pool or anything, but the recreation of the events was correct.

I guess it just.. You have to look at it as how many of the details need to be spot on?

You'd probably have to ask an experienced skydiver - or better yet, an experienced rigger.. One familiar with the chutes used.

My theory on it, and that's all this is and I am not an experienced skydiver...

The chute was sewn shut, so.. Based on that, I would presume if you cut the stitches. And assuming the chute was packed properly.. It could be used. Was this packed with the intention of it being used as a 'dummy' chute? In that case, it might not have been packed properly. Or, was this a properly packed chute that was chosen to be sewn shut?


Could or would you 'undummy' it at 10k feet with $200k in cash strapped to you when you had three other good chutes?

Any way you look at that.. I don't see using it being a good idea. Why take the chance? Was this chute 'retired' due to age? If so.. Not one I'd want to use. I can give you multiple reasons to not use it. I can only give you one to use it.. That being.. No other choice. He had three other choices.



I meant to reply to this before.. A buddy of mine was part of the crew that responded to an emergency that was recreated on Rescue 911. It was up in the Berea area of Greenville, SC.. He was a firefighter and they were the first ones on scene.. As i recall, it was a guy who dove into his swimming pool and broke his neck

https://rescue911.fandom.com/wiki/Cannonball_Kid

That's it. he said the re-enactment was pretty accurate.. They didn't use the same house / same pool or anything, but the recreation of the events was correct.

I guess it just.. You have to look at it as how many of the details need to be spot on?

The segment was clear that the dummy chute would not open under any circumstances. And the theory on why Cooper took it is because he wanted something to put the money in. Of course the extra bag he had seems to contradict that, but it could have had important stuff like survival gear.

But even if he didn't know it was a dummy chute, he still took one functional parachute with him, the military style one that was apparently more reliable, so he still could have survived.

I don't know if you had a chance to view the video. But as far as I can tell the main reasons he seems to think Cooper survived are his confidence in parachutes, and he also seems confident of the general area he landed, which was the county just north of Portland in Washington state. I looked that up and it appears to be Clarke County Washington, which is the Vancouver Washington area which he contends was fairly well populated at the time and includes Washington state suburbs of Portland. In short, he believes Cooper landed not far north of Portland. Whereas the Unsolved Mysteries segment seems to feel he landed further north in more sparsely populated areas. And he thinks that the only river Cooper could have landed in was the Lewis River and that he had already passed Lake Merwyn and the Washougal Rivers.

For the record though, I don't know why he is this confident of the jump out spot, it might be in one of his other videos.

Among his other contentions:

1. He dismisses the money not turning up in circulation argument, says the Fed did not start scanning returned bills to the early 90's and the bill lifecycle back then was only 18 months

2. He also says the Unsolved Mysteries broadcast exaggerated how bad the weather was, possibly for dramatic effect.

3. Did not seem to think much of the FBI agent interviewed, his first name was Ralph, he says he was not the main agent assigned to the case and had some misleading info.

4. He also dismissed the newest sketch of Cooper Florence Shaffner had done, believing her memory may have been distorted by the late 80's and thinks the original is still the more accurate.

5. On a more comical note, he was critical of the actor who portrayed Cooper, since Cooper did not seem to have an accent and this guy had sort of a southern drawl, and was yelling a lot whereas most indications are Cooper remained calm and softspoken. He compared the actor to Yosemite Sam. :lol:

I may have to watch some more videos to know how he came to the conclusions he did, but let me know what you think if you ever have a chance to view them. they are interesting at least.

I'm still about 50-50 myself. I personally think there are two main scenarios he didn't survive, and those are a parachute malfunction, or he landed in some kind of rough water with a current and was unable to swim to safety. If neither of those two things happened, I personally think he survived. But just me.

The segment was clear that the dummy chute would not open under any circumstances. And the theory on why Cooper took it is because he wanted something to put the money in. Of course the extra bag he had seems to contradict that, but it could have had important stuff like survival gear.

But even if he didn't know it was a dummy chute, he still took one functional parachute with him, the military style one that was apparently more reliable, so he still could have survived.

I don't know if you had a chance to view the video. But as far as I can tell the main reasons he seems to think Cooper survived are his confidence in parachutes, and he also seems confident of the general area he landed, which was the county just north of Portland in Washington state. I looked that up and it appears to be Clarke County Washington, which is the Vancouver Washington area which he contends was fairly well populated at the time and includes Washington state suburbs of Portland. In short, he believes Cooper landed not far north of Portland. Whereas the Unsolved Mysteries segment seems to feel he landed further north in more sparsely populated areas. And he thinks that the only river Cooper could have landed in was the Lewis River and that he had already passed Lake Merwyn and the Washougal Rivers.

For the record though, I don't know why he is this confident of the jump out spot, it might be in one of his other videos.

Among his other contentions:

1. He dismisses the money not turning up in circulation argument, says the Fed did not start scanning returned bills to the early 90's and the bill lifecycle back then was only 18 months

2. He also says the Unsolved Mysteries broadcast exaggerated how bad the weather was, possibly for dramatic effect.

3. Did not seem to think much of the FBI agent interviewed, his first name was Ralph, he says he was not the main agent assigned to the case and had some misleading info.

4. He also dismissed the newest sketch of Cooper Florence Shaffner had done, believing her memory may have been distorted by the late 80's and thinks the original is still the more accurate.

5. On a more comical note, he was critical of the actor who portrayed Cooper, since Cooper did not seem to have an accent and this guy had sort of a southern drawl, and was yelling a lot whereas most indications are Cooper remained calm and softspoken. He compared the actor to Yosemite Sam. :lol:

I may have to watch some more videos to know how he came to the conclusions he did, but let me know what you think if you ever have a chance to view them. they are interesting at least.

I'm still about 50-50 myself. I personally think there are two main scenarios he didn't survive, and those are a parachute malfunction, or he landed in some kind of rough water with a current and was unable to swim to safety. If neither of those two things happened, I personally think he survived. But just me.

It's one of the beautiful cases where everyone can have a different view of it. And everyone can claim they're right.

Again, personally, I think he went splat. Or died of exposure. Whatever. He didn't make it, that much I'll say is my opinion. The best theory I have is that he was Canadian military. Based on some of the language he used. It wasn't US English. It checks all the boxes, but.. that doesn't mean it's right.

I'd have to pull the radar data on the flight again, but.. I seem to recall that they did fly over Portland, so.. A jump just north of there would certainly be possible..

One thing I see very little on.. And I can't really even find any information on it.. How did he get to the airport?

I've found NOTHING on that. You know the FBI had to interview every cab driver who went to the Portland airport that day. If they have public transport to it, they talked to every bus driver.. But.. The guy showed up at the airport and bought a ticket and hijacked a plane and absconded with $200k.. And as mysteriously as he appeared, he was gone. Did he stay at a hotel and walk? Was he a local?

One thing I am as confident as I can be about.. Richard McCoy was NOT DB Cooper. I don't think any of the suspects are him. But.. McCoy especially I discount. I leave open that little piece of possibility, because.. You never say never after all.. but..

Anyway.. As to a few of the points.. The weather 'not being as bad'.. Dude jumped in a business suit in the rain, in November. At night. Temps average 52 for a high and 41 for a low.. Wet, cold and in the dark.. I'm not saying it's not survivable, but..

Eyewitnesses under stress are some of the WORST witnesses you'll ever encounter.. But.. Honestly.. That's the best we have. I don't take the sketches - any of them - as gospel. I do tend to believe the general description.. That he was 5'9" or 5'10", slight build, 170-180lbs, olive complexion, and in his mid 40's.. Which... As I've said before.. If he didn't go splat.. He's dead now, because he drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney and there was just no way he was making it to his 90's, which is where he'd be now. MULTIPLE witnesses described him all the same way so far as the general features.

The olive skin.. One of the passengers thought he was either Mexican or Native American.. Now.. That could back up my theory about him being Canadian, as there's many natives there.. McCoy and most of the others were just typical white guys.

The bad part.. I don't really think there's any way this one can be solved. The DNA on the tie clip is the best evidence and.. We don't even know if that's his or contamination. I'd suspect that DNA has been run through every tool available and come up with bupkis. If it *IS* his DNA.. Well.. maybe there's hope, but that's about the only way. I keep hope alive, tho.. I'd like to see an answer to this one.

It's one of the beautiful cases where everyone can have a different view of it. And everyone can claim they're right.

Again, personally, I think he went splat. Or died of exposure. Whatever. He didn't make it, that much I'll say is my opinion. The best theory I have is that he was Canadian military. Based on some of the language he used. It wasn't US English. It checks all the boxes, but.. that doesn't mean it's right.

I'd have to pull the radar data on the flight again, but.. I seem to recall that they did fly over Portland, so.. A jump just north of there would certainly be possible..

One thing I see very little on.. And I can't really even find any information on it.. How did he get to the airport?

I've found NOTHING on that. You know the FBI had to interview every cab driver who went to the Portland airport that day. If they have public transport to it, they talked to every bus driver.. But.. The guy showed up at the airport and bought a ticket and hijacked a plane and absconded with $200k.. And as mysteriously as he appeared, he was gone. Did he stay at a hotel and walk? Was he a local?

One thing I am as confident as I can be about.. Richard McCoy was NOT DB Cooper. I don't think any of the suspects are him. But.. McCoy especially I discount. I leave open that little piece of possibility, because.. You never say never after all.. but..

Anyway.. As to a few of the points.. The weather 'not being as bad'.. Dude jumped in a business suit in the rain, in November. At night. Temps average 52 for a high and 41 for a low.. Wet, cold and in the dark.. I'm not saying it's not survivable, but..

Eyewitnesses under stress are some of the WORST witnesses you'll ever encounter.. But.. Honestly.. That's the best we have. I don't take the sketches - any of them - as gospel. I do tend to believe the general description.. That he was 5'9" or 5'10", slight build, 170-180lbs, olive complexion, and in his mid 40's.. Which... As I've said before.. If he didn't go splat.. He's dead now, because he drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney and there was just no way he was making it to his 90's, which is where he'd be now. MULTIPLE witnesses described him all the same way so far as the general features.

The olive skin.. One of the passengers thought he was either Mexican or Native American.. Now.. That could back up my theory about him being Canadian, as there's many natives there.. McCoy and most of the others were just typical white guys.

The bad part.. I don't really think there's any way this one can be solved. The DNA on the tie clip is the best evidence and.. We don't even know if that's his or contamination. I'd suspect that DNA has been run through every tool available and come up with bupkis. If it *IS* his DNA.. Well.. maybe there's hope, but that's about the only way. I keep hope alive, tho.. I'd like to see an answer to this one.

I agree that solving it will be tricky if not impossible. As I said I compared it to Jack the Ripper. Obviously a vastly different type of criminal and crime; but similar in that it is a high profile even iconic case, thousands of leads and tips generating to much crap to sort through, to much time having passed, to many suspects, and simply not enough physical evidence.

DB Cooper sleuth does agree with you on Richard McCoy, so that's probably a discussion for another time, sure the merits of that have been beat to death already so nothing more to discuss there for the time being I suppose.

But as far as the landing site, and how Cooper may have gotten to the airport, felt there was something to add there.

I think an obvious possibility we can ascertain, is based on the fact that Cooper boarded the plane in Portland. But in addition, when you look at his actions and what his plan seemed to be and when he jumped from the plane, it seems to me Cooper was trying to time his jump to where he would land again somewhere in the Portland area. So it looks to me like he was trying to get back there.

So the obvious implication here is, that Cooper had some kind of connection to Portland or the Portland area given the facts he boarded there and it seems to me he was also trying to get back there. Now I know this seems self evident and I'm sure you've probably considered the same conclusion, and I'm sure the FBI scoured the Portland area as well in search of a suspect. But I hadn't really seen it discussed extensively so felt it was at least worth mentioning.

But I think where some people get this wrong, its been mentioned by several sources Cooper did not specify a flight path, and he accepted the Reno stop off destination. So to casual observers it seems that Cooper did not plan this out well nor calculate in any way where he was going to land.

But based on some of my research on aviation, this is not necessarily the case. Most people are not aware that airplane flight paths between cities are not straight paths, but they fly more in arcs due to Earth curvature and other factors which save fuel. And most investigation materials into the case I've read indicates Cooper likely had some kind of connection to the airline industry and would have been aware of this. And if he didn't know the flight time between Seattle and Portland, which I imagine is only 45 minutes to an hour or so, he could have easily timed the initial flight from Portland to Seattle. And he did specify the speed he wanted the plane to fly even if he didn't specify a flight path. of course, that could have just been to better facilitate his jump.

What I'm getting at with this, is that Cooper's jump was not necessarily just random with him just wanting to get out of the plane and escape regardless of where he was landing, but it could have been timed and targeting the general area of Portland, back where he started. Due to the flight time, he would have known about when he was over the area, and he could very well have been aware of the flight arc between Seattle and Reno.

And remember, I-5 runs all the way down the West Coast, so he could have been counting on it as a waypoint.

So my honest theory is on his plan, I think he could very well have drove a vehicle to somewhere near the airport, or possibly even to the airport. He walks in, the rest we know. He planned to jump out into the general Portland area, jump, make it to Interstate 5, then the first sign he comes across he knows exactly where he is. Perhaps he then hitchhiked back to the airport or to wherever he left his vehicle. (Hitchhiking was a lot more common in the 1970's). Then he makes it to his car and rides off into the sunset with his 200 grand. Or maybe he landed close enough to his vehicle to walk.

None of the witnesses including the flight attendants testified that Cooper seemed out of shape or overweight, so its not out of the realm of possibility he was able to walk quite a ways assuming he wasn't hurt.

At least, I think this was his plan. Not fool proof for sure. But maybe not as random, desperate, or as much of a shot in the dark as we think.

But a couple of footnotes: as far as I know, none of the known suspects had ties to the Portland area, all of them were known to be alive after so if it was any of them then Cooper survived, the FBI has not been able to come up with a single suspect who disappeared about that time so no known suspects disappeared.

Now this doesn't prove anything by itself, it could very well be Cooper's only tie to the Portland area was a possible vehicle he had somewhere, or a hotel room. But I do think based on everything I know he was familiar with the I-5 corridor area between Portland and Seattle, and I think he lived along there somewhere at some point. That also doesn't mean he wasn't Canadian as you suggested, but I do think he lived in the Pacific Northwest at some point.

I agree that solving it will be tricky if not impossible. As I said I compared it to Jack the Ripper. Obviously a vastly different type of criminal and crime; but similar in that it is a high profile even iconic case, thousands of leads and tips generating to much crap to sort through, to much time having passed, to many suspects, and simply not enough physical evidence.

DB Cooper sleuth does agree with you on Richard McCoy, so that's probably a discussion for another time, sure the merits of that have been beat to death already so nothing more to discuss there for the time being I suppose.

But as far as the landing site, and how Cooper may have gotten to the airport, felt there was something to add there.

I think an obvious possibility we can ascertain, is based on the fact that Cooper boarded the plane in Portland. But in addition, when you look at his actions and what his plan seemed to be and when he jumped from the plane, it seems to me Cooper was trying to time his jump to where he would land again somewhere in the Portland area. So it looks to me like he was trying to get back there.

So the obvious implication here is, that Cooper had some kind of connection to Portland or the Portland area given the facts he boarded there and it seems to me he was also trying to get back there. Now I know this seems self evident and I'm sure you've probably considered the same conclusion, and I'm sure the FBI scoured the Portland area as well in search of a suspect. But I hadn't really seen it discussed extensively so felt it was at least worth mentioning.

But I think where some people get this wrong, its been mentioned by several sources Cooper did not specify a flight path, and he accepted the Reno stop off destination. So to casual observers it seems that Cooper did not plan this out well nor calculate in any way where he was going to land.

But based on some of my research on aviation, this is not necessarily the case. Most people are not aware that airplane flight paths between cities are not straight paths, but they fly more in arcs due to Earth curvature and other factors which save fuel. And most investigation materials into the case I've read indicates Cooper likely had some kind of connection to the airline industry and would have been aware of this. And if he didn't know the flight time between Seattle and Portland, which I imagine is only 45 minutes to an hour or so, he could have easily timed the initial flight from Portland to Seattle. And he did specify the speed he wanted the plane to fly even if he didn't specify a flight path. of course, that could have just been to better facilitate his jump.

What I'm getting at with this, is that Cooper's jump was not necessarily just random with him just wanting to get out of the plane and escape regardless of where he was landing, but it could have been timed and targeting the general area of Portland, back where he started. Due to the flight time, he would have known about when he was over the area, and he could very well have been aware of the flight arc between Seattle and Reno.

And remember, I-5 runs all the way down the West Coast, so he could have been counting on it as a waypoint.

So my honest theory is on his plan, I think he could very well have drove a vehicle to somewhere near the airport, or possibly even to the airport. He walks in, the rest we know. He planned to jump out into the general Portland area, jump, make it to Interstate 5, then the first sign he comes across he knows exactly where he is. Perhaps he then hitchhiked back to the airport or to wherever he left his vehicle. (Hitchhiking was a lot more common in the 1970's). Then he makes it to his car and rides off into the sunset with his 200 grand. Or maybe he landed close enough to his vehicle to walk.

None of the witnesses including the flight attendants testified that Cooper seemed out of shape or overweight, so its not out of the realm of possibility he was able to walk quite a ways assuming he wasn't hurt.

At least, I think this was his plan. Not fool proof for sure. But maybe not as random, desperate, or as much of a shot in the dark as we think.

But a couple of footnotes: as far as I know, none of the known suspects had ties to the Portland area, all of them were known to be alive after so if it was any of them then Cooper survived, the FBI has not been able to come up with a single suspect who disappeared about that time so no known suspects disappeared.

Now this doesn't prove anything by itself, it could very well be Cooper's only tie to the Portland area was a possible vehicle he had somewhere, or a hotel room. But I do think based on everything I know he was familiar with the I-5 corridor area between Portland and Seattle, and I think he lived along there somewhere at some point. That also doesn't mean he wasn't Canadian as you suggested, but I do think he lived in the Pacific Northwest at some point.

Don't disagree with most.. The flight path did go north of Portland.. The problem is, no one REALLY knows when he jumped. The two known pieces of information that relate to that are the earliest possible time was when the rear door was opened and he wasn't on the plane when it landed in Reno. So.. The best that can be said is.. Somewhere in between those two points in time.

Airliners follow flight paths. There are 'highways in the sky' that aircraft (generally) follow.. It's.. Interesting that the flight went as close to Portland as it did.. They did fly around Portland, as you'd want to do to stay out of the airspace of an airport.. I'm surprised they got as close to it as they did, of course, air traffic was far less back in 1971..

The thing I have a problem with.. He wanted to go to Mexico City.. Reno was a stopover because the plane couldn't make it that far. So.. Now, I don't know enough about flight paths to say whether you'd take the same path going to either place.. If he knew them well enough to know "OK, Reno is fine", then.. He had to be pretty knowledgeable about the flight paths. That's.. In general, something only pilots know. Not like the info isn't out there, but.. Much harder to come across in 1971 vs a google search today.

We also don't know all the details, but.. The way the story is always told, when they told him they'd have to stopover in Reno, it was pretty much an immediate "OK" from Cooper. So, assuming that is the same flight path, at least so far as where he planned to jump.. He was knowledgeable. If it's not.. He was winging it. He always planned to jump well before Reno, which backs your idea, but.. He didn't tell them what route to fly.. So.. How could he know where they'd go? Unless the plan was always to jump ASAP.

Here's the problem I have with him being from Portland.. The old saying, you don't poop where you eat. So, while I can agree that Portland may have been his target.. And that he possibly/probably had familiarity with the area.. I very much doubt that he lived there or had recent connections to the area.

As to the weather.. Portland in November has a pretty tight temp range. it's like an average 52 for the high and 41 for the low. He jumped in November, so it was fully dark at the time.. He jumped - so far as we know - in a business suit. There was no indication of him having anything under that suit.. So.. Regardless of 'exaggerating' how bad the weather was.. He was jumping in likely 40 degree temps at ground level. Let's just say 45 degrees. Using the average of 3.5 degrees of drop per 1k feet, that would be about 10 degrees ambient temp. Add in the wind chill factor.. At the time of jump, that's temps of about -25 degrees F.. No matter how 'not bad' the weather was.. You jump in -25 degree temps, in the rain, in a suit and tie.. That's not easy. Admittedly.. falling at terminal velocity of 120mph.. You're only in those temps for a short time, you'd warm up about 3.5 degrees every 10 seconds. But.. Don't look at it as 'easy'

The biggest thing Cooper had going for him is really the element of surprise.. All the copycats didn't have that. and.. You mentioned that some of them successfully jumped.. Yes they did.. In fact, none of the copycats who tried this died during the jump - of course, of those that jumped.. but.. Another commonality between all of those people.. They were all identified. None of them were 'ghosts' like Cooper. Which.. Pending on your point of view, could be taken as evidence that he didn't survive. Could also be taken as evidence that he was smarter and planned things out better than the others.

All in all.. To me, based on a preponderance of the evidence, my opinion is that he didn't survive the jump - that doesn't mean he didn't, tho. No matter what, it's a great story. You have to ask yourself why it's still got us and many, many other people talking about it after all these years. It's like a bank robber who gets away with it.. There's a certain Robin Hood-esque element to it that I think appeals to a lot of people. Someone who stuck it to the man and got away with it..

The whole thing is fascinating.. If your honest with yourself,you also dont know if he is here or not!!

The whole thing is fascinating.. If your honest with yourself,you also dont know if he is here or not!!

Again.. He smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish and was estimated to be in his 40's in 1971.

That was 54 years ago.. So.. I think i'm pretty safe playing the odds that a chain smoker and heavy drinker isn't still with us at a minimum age of 96.

Now.. Whether he lived for any significant amount of time - significant being more than 5 minutes - after exiting the airplane.. That, indeed, has much different odds.

Again.. He smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish and was estimated to be in his 40's in 1971.

That was 54 years ago.. So.. I think i'm pretty safe playing the odds that a chain smoker and heavy drinker isn't still with us at a minimum age of 96.

Now.. Whether he lived for any significant amount of time - significant being more than 5 minutes - after exiting the airplane.. That, indeed, has much different odds.

While I do agree that Cooper is likely no longer with us, I don't know how strong this argument of him being a chain smoker and heavy drinker is. Remember, without knowing who he was, we literally only know about one day of this guy's entire life. So there is no way of knowing for sure if what he did on the plane was within his normal habitual routine. Also remember that he was about to try and pull off a very dangerous crime, one whose uniqueness and danger is still being discussed over a half century later. (Which I'm sure he got a helluva big kick out of if he survived.) So he could very well have been drinking and smoking more than normal to calm his nerves. And of course there is always the possibility they could have overestimated his age.

My honest opinion though is there are two main scenarios he didn't survive: a parachute malfunction of some sort, or he landed in water with a rough current and was unable to swim to safety. If neither of those two things happened, my honest opinion is he likely survived. Not saying there is no other way he could have died but in my view those were his two biggest dangers by far. And I'd have to say he avoided those two his survival odds skyrocket if indeed he did jump into Clarke County Washington like it is believed.

I will admit though, the one thing that nags me is the Tena Bar discovery. That's so hard to figure for so many reasons and almost merits an entire discussion in itself. Mainly because its hard to figure how it got there if it got there naturally, no expert has been able to pinpoint how it might have. And if someone buried it there, I can't figure a reason why. Its a miracle it was even found to be honest. As someone pointed out it raises far more questions than it answers.

I will say, if Cooper did survive I can only imagine the good time he had watching all these documentaries and the big deal he created. Its a case for the ages for sure, I doubt even he anticipated people would be talking about it over a half century later.

While I do agree that Cooper is likely no longer with us, I don't know how strong this argument of him being a chain smoker and heavy drinker is. Remember, without knowing who he was, we literally only know about one day of this guy's entire life. So there is no way of knowing for sure if what he did on the plane was within his normal habitual routine. Also remember that he was about to try and pull off a very dangerous crime, one whose uniqueness and danger is still being discussed over a half century later. (Which I'm sure he got a helluva big kick out of if he survived.) So he could very well have been drinking and smoking more than normal to calm his nerves. And of course there is always the possibility they could have overestimated his age.

My honest opinion though is there are two main scenarios he didn't survive: a parachute malfunction of some sort, or he landed in water with a rough current and was unable to swim to safety. If neither of those two things happened, my honest opinion is he likely survived. Not saying there is no other way he could have died but in my view those were his two biggest dangers by far. And I'd have to say he avoided those two his survival odds skyrocket if indeed he did jump into Clarke County Washington like it is believed.

I will admit though, the one thing that nags me is the Tena Bar discovery. That's so hard to figure for so many reasons and almost merits an entire discussion in itself. Mainly because its hard to figure how it got there if it got there naturally, no expert has been able to pinpoint how it might have. And if someone buried it there, I can't figure a reason why. Its a miracle it was even found to be honest. As someone pointed out it raises far more questions than it answers.

I will say, if Cooper did survive I can only imagine the good time he had watching all these documentaries and the big deal he created. Its a case for the ages for sure, I doubt even he anticipated people would be talking about it over a half century later.

Tena Bar isn't really that far off the flight track. The issue is.. A bundle of cash.. I just don't see it getting that far naturally, even falling from 10k feet. The placard that fell out of the plane.. That weighed next to nothing. .The wind would carry it quite a distance as it slowly floated down. Plus, it was far more aerodynamic than a bundle of cash.

Then again, a bundle of 100 is only about a quarter of a pound. But.. That's still going to fall pretty straight down. I can see it being blown SOME by the wind, but.. Tena Bar is several miles off the flight track.

Planting the money there, to me, is just ridiculous. The only way that works is if the kid was in on it. And, I don't buy that. The money had been there, or at least exposed for the full 9 years or whatever, based on the aging.. There was dredging which.. Complicates things.

Plus.. only 3 bundles (Minus $100, I think?) were found. And you know that entire area was searched after the kid found it. That's all that was there. of course.. The money could have spread a bit, and being in the water would have decomposed it to nothing..

If, somehow, he got away with it.. he deserves an award for keeping his mouth shut. That was what got McCoy busted.. Well, ONE of the many things that got McCoy busted.. He had been talking about doing it.

It is a fascinating case.. And.. Guaran-damn-tee you that had he been caught or found hanging in a tree or whatever shortly after this happened.. We wouldn't be talking about it today. It'd be a neat little footnote in aviation history and nothing more.

The fact that he hasn't ever been caught or even identified.. Turned him into a folk hero.

I rather wonder.. Let's say he was caught 10 years ago.. So, most likely, he'd have been in his 80's.. He comes forward and wants to sell the rights to his story to leave money for his family, presuming he had one. Taking out the entire set of laws regarding not allowing criminals to profit from their crimes.. Let's just assume that doesn't exist at all.. What do you think the DOJ would have done with him? I have to assume that they'd probably lock him up for whatever time he had left.. Remember, he was indicted so.. There's no statute of limitations. BUT.. Would that be in the interest of justice? That's actually an interesting question to me. I mean, if the guy lived clean before and after.. Why put him in a prison? He really didn't hurt anyone other than an insurance company. And, yes, he terrified the flight crew..

As for the eyewitness descriptions.. I say it all the time.. They're unreliable. BUT.. You've got multiple people who all agree.. So, I do give it more credibility than most. They don't agree on the sketches, but the general description. Age, height, weight, etc.

Even if they were WAY off, and the guy was 20.. He'd be in his mid 70's now. Still a decent chance he'd no longer be with us. I'm.. Fairly certain he wasn't 20.

Tena Bar isn't really that far off the flight track. The issue is.. A bundle of cash.. I just don't see it getting that far naturally, even falling from 10k feet. The placard that fell out of the plane.. That weighed next to nothing. .The wind would carry it quite a distance as it slowly floated down. Plus, it was far more aerodynamic than a bundle of cash.

Then again, a bundle of 100 is only about a quarter of a pound. But.. That's still going to fall pretty straight down. I can see it being blown SOME by the wind, but.. Tena Bar is several miles off the flight track.

Planting the money there, to me, is just ridiculous. The only way that works is if the kid was in on it. And, I don't buy that. The money had been there, or at least exposed for the full 9 years or whatever, based on the aging.. There was dredging which.. Complicates things.

Plus.. only 3 bundles (Minus $100, I think?) were found. And you know that entire area was searched after the kid found it. That's all that was there. of course.. The money could have spread a bit, and being in the water would have decomposed it to nothing..

If, somehow, he got away with it.. he deserves an award for keeping his mouth shut. That was what got McCoy busted.. Well, ONE of the many things that got McCoy busted.. He had been talking about doing it.

It is a fascinating case.. And.. Guaran-damn-tee you that had he been caught or found hanging in a tree or whatever shortly after this happened.. We wouldn't be talking about it today. It'd be a neat little footnote in aviation history and nothing more.

The fact that he hasn't ever been caught or even identified.. Turned him into a folk hero.

I rather wonder.. Let's say he was caught 10 years ago.. So, most likely, he'd have been in his 80's.. He comes forward and wants to sell the rights to his story to leave money for his family, presuming he had one. Taking out the entire set of laws regarding not allowing criminals to profit from their crimes.. Let's just assume that doesn't exist at all.. What do you think the DOJ would have done with him? I have to assume that they'd probably lock him up for whatever time he had left.. Remember, he was indicted so.. There's no statute of limitations. BUT.. Would that be in the interest of justice? That's actually an interesting question to me. I mean, if the guy lived clean before and after.. Why put him in a prison? He really didn't hurt anyone other than an insurance company. And, yes, he terrified the flight crew..

As for the eyewitness descriptions.. I say it all the time.. They're unreliable. BUT.. You've got multiple people who all agree.. So, I do give it more credibility than most. They don't agree on the sketches, but the general description. Age, height, weight, etc.

Even if they were WAY off, and the guy was 20.. He'd be in his mid 70's now. Still a decent chance he'd no longer be with us. I'm.. Fairly certain he wasn't 20.

Yeah, I'd say given all we know, the youngest Cooper was likely to have been was probably mid 30's, in which case he is in his 80's and a fair chance he is still around. Even then its not definite, but a better chance than if they had his age right.

But as to what would happen to him if he was caught in his 80's and what he would get, I would say it depends entirely on what else he did in his life. If Cooper was identified and caught, we both know his background and history would probably be traced all the way back to his crib due to the high profile nature of the case. I mean there are people who make a career out of studying this guy. So everything he has done in his life would likely come out, as small as shoplifting a pack of gum and baseball cards back in the day when he was a kid.

If your hypothetical turned out correct and he was just a one timer who did this out of desperation for financial reasons and basically lived a clean life before and after, then my best guess is the law might be content to give him a slap on the wrist, possibly a fine and a couple years in jail and call it a day. I don't think they'd let it go completely, it was still a crime and should be punished but the rest of Cooper's and his record and life would be taken into consideration.

On the other hand, if he turned out to be a career criminal who was in and out of trouble with the law his whole life, then they would probably be more inclined to just lock him up the rest of it.

Case in point, O.J.Simpson. We all know that theft case he went to jail for he got a way stiffer sentence than he normally would have because most people still believe he killed Ron Goldman and Nichole Simpson.

My honest opinion though is, I would be surprised if this was the only thing Cooper did in his life. The smooth way he handled this indicates this probably wasn't his first rodeo so to speak. I find it difficult to believe at least at the time of this act he was just a saint who fell from grace and did this maybe out of desperation. It could be he did and mellowed out with old age and perhaps regretted it at least to some degree, but if that is the case he probably committed other crimes before.

I think at the very least he was a guy who lived on the fringes of law, as I suggested before something kind of gives me the feeling he might have been a chronic gambler who had a bad run of luck in Vegas or something. I think its highly possible he was not really a violent man, just something of a weasel who got away with as much as he could.

Unless he is caught or identified though, no way of knowing for sure.

Yeah, I'd say given all we know, the youngest Cooper was likely to have been was probably mid 30's, in which case he is in his 80's and a fair chance he is still around. Even then its not definite, but a better chance than if they had his age right.

But as to what would happen to him if he was caught in his 80's and what he would get, I would say it depends entirely on what else he did in his life. If Cooper was identified and caught, we both know his background and history would probably be traced all the way back to his crib due to the high profile nature of the case. I mean there are people who make a career out of studying this guy. So everything he has done in his life would likely come out, as small as shoplifting a pack of gum and baseball cards back in the day when he was a kid.

If your hypothetical turned out correct and he was just a one timer who did this out of desperation for financial reasons and basically lived a clean life before and after, then my best guess is the law might be content to give him a slap on the wrist, possibly a fine and a couple years in jail and call it a day. I don't think they'd let it go completely, it was still a crime and should be punished but the rest of Cooper's and his record and life would be taken into consideration.

On the other hand, if he turned out to be a career criminal who was in and out of trouble with the law his whole life, then they would probably be more inclined to just lock him up the rest of it.

Case in point, O.J.Simpson. We all know that theft case he went to jail for he got a way stiffer sentence than he normally would have because most people still believe he killed Ron Goldman and Nichole Simpson.

My honest opinion though is, I would be surprised if this was the only thing Cooper did in his life. The smooth way he handled this indicates this probably wasn't his first rodeo so to speak. I find it difficult to believe at least at the time of this act he was just a saint who fell from grace and did this maybe out of desperation. It could be he did and mellowed out with old age and perhaps regretted it at least to some degree, but if that is the case he probably committed other crimes before.

I think at the very least he was a guy who lived on the fringes of law, as I suggested before something kind of gives me the feeling he might have been a chronic gambler who had a bad run of luck in Vegas or something. I think its highly possible he was not really a violent man, just something of a weasel who got away with as much as he could.

Unless he is caught or identified though, no way of knowing for sure.

I'd think if he was on the fringes.. He'd have been caught for something prior, and that would have led to his identification.. At least, if he were caught for something in the US. Not sure about that if he was, as I rather suspect, Canadian.

But.. If he had come forward at 85 years old.. Especially if he was sickly or on the verge of death. I could see, pending on his background, them allowing him bail and.. Basically just letting him die before he went to trial.

All comes down to whether the guy was Walter White or Walter Reed, so to speak.

He's certainly not the first one to escape the FBI.. But.. They do have a dang good track record.

I'd think if he was on the fringes.. He'd have been caught for something prior, and that would have led to his identification.. At least, if he were caught for something in the US. Not sure about that if he was, as I rather suspect, Canadian.

But.. If he had come forward at 85 years old.. Especially if he was sickly or on the verge of death. I could see, pending on his background, them allowing him bail and.. Basically just letting him die before he went to trial.

All comes down to whether the guy was Walter White or Walter Reed, so to speak.

He's certainly not the first one to escape the FBI.. But.. They do have a dang good track record.

Seems like you are suggesting he would have been caught if he had a record. Not necessarily, remember this was 1971, there was nothing resembling the criminal record databases we have today. And there is no strong enough physical evidence to definitively link him to this anyway, so he could have been in prison for another crime in the years following the heist and no one connected the dots. Back then such records were kept in courthouse basements and you had to make phone calls to check anyone out. And even then you had to know where to start or where to call. They had no idea where to start with Cooper. At that time any law enforcement agency had to call where a suspect lived or had been, and usually they couldn't even find out the necessary info in one call, usually they just had to give them the info and they had to call back because someone had to sort through records.

But, if you recall Stephen Paddock was a chronic high stakes gambler, and he had no criminal record up until the day he pulled off the Las Vegas massacre in 2017. Maybe Cooper was in that same mold. Never actually committed a crime until he had a bad string of luck and had to do something desperate like this. Of course Paddock did not do that massacre for money as he apparently still was fairly wealthy at the time of the massacre, no one even knows for sure what his motive was.

Seems like you are suggesting he would have been caught if he had a record. Not necessarily, remember this was 1971, there was nothing resembling the criminal record databases we have today. And there is no strong enough physical evidence to definitively link him to this anyway, so he could have been in prison for another crime in the years following the heist and no one connected the dots. Back then such records were kept in courthouse basements and you had to make phone calls to check anyone out. And even then you had to know where to start or where to call. They had no idea where to start with Cooper. At that time any law enforcement agency had to call where a suspect lived or had been, and usually they couldn't even find out the necessary info in one call, usually they just had to give them the info and they had to call back because someone had to sort through records.

But, if you recall Stephen Paddock was a chronic high stakes gambler, and he had no criminal record up until the day he pulled off the Las Vegas massacre in 2017. Maybe Cooper was in that same mold. Never actually committed a crime until he had a bad string of luck and had to do something desperate like this. Of course Paddock did not do that massacre for money as he apparently still was fairly wealthy at the time of the massacre, no one even knows for sure what his motive was.

The FBI has been collecting and maintaining a fingerprint database of all criminals for over 100 years. So, he'd have been in the system if he had committed a crime previously. CODIS, obviously, is much newer, but.. You can bet that the profile pulled from the tie clip is in it. I think DNA has been collected since the 90's from all felons, at least.

Now.. You are correct that the system was far less robust than it is now. prints were checked by hand.. Or I guess, by eye.. Manually, let's say.. But.. He'd have been in the system.

I'd say there's a pretty big difference between someone who snaps and does a mass killing vs hijacking an airplane for ransom. I don't think Dylan Roof or.. The clock tower guy.. Most mass killers don't have a prior record. I just think this is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

The FBI has been collecting and maintaining a fingerprint database of all criminals for over 100 years. So, he'd have been in the system if he had committed a crime previously. CODIS, obviously, is much newer, but.. You can bet that the profile pulled from the tie clip is in it. I think DNA has been collected since the 90's from all felons, at least.

Now.. You are correct that the system was far less robust than it is now. prints were checked by hand.. Or I guess, by eye.. Manually, let's say.. But.. He'd have been in the system.

I'd say there's a pretty big difference between someone who snaps and does a mass killing vs hijacking an airplane for ransom. I don't think Dylan Roof or.. The clock tower guy.. Most mass killers don't have a prior record. I just think this is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Apples to oranges in the sense of having committed vastly different types of crimes? Yes absolutely.

To be clear, the only reason I brought up Stephen Paddock at all is because I thought it was possible that Cooper could have lived a similar type of high stakes gambler lifestyle, and that his luck may have run out in the months prior to the hijacking. And being someone who perhaps did not like the grind of the 9-5 job, would choose a rather drastic and unconventional way like a hijacking to try and maintain his lifestyle or replenish some losses.

However on reflection, when you consider the fact that Cooper seemed to have some knowledge of the airline industry, the fact that he mentioned a grudge to Tina Mucklow, and the fact that they found particles on his tie that were consistent with metals used in the aerospace industry, then one might think there are greater odds you are looking for someone who had a beef with the airline industry. Perhaps a disgruntled former employee who might have got canned and he felt the airline industry owed him which would bring in the financial motive as well.

Then again, the airline industry other than having to make some changes was not greatly affected by the crime as it only really ended up hurting the insurance company. And Cooper could very well have been trying to mislead Mucklow with the grudge statement.

As to the criminal record discussion, yes I do know fingerprint evidence has been around since the early 1900's of course. However, law enforcement was not able to computerize a lot of this until the 1970's, making exchange and access to criminal records a little harder prior to that, much of it involving phone calls and records research in courthouse basements. Even though the internet didn't become readily available to the public until the mid 90's or so, its origins can be traced to the ARPANET project from the 1960's, (our old buddy Kevin Poulsen's pet project) and when comps started communicating around 1970 it was shortly after that they robust databases started coming into existence. Ironically enough, right around the time of the hijacking.

What I question though, is how much criminal history data was actually placed onto servers at first and how long did it actually take? In short how hard would it have been for crimes 1971 and before to slip through the cracks? That might be debatable.

Also remember that they had a scant amount of actual physical evidence to tie Cooper to any existing criminal profile. About all they had was the tie, from which they got three partial DNA profiles it seems. Unfortunately, from what I understand the tie was mishandled over the years and transferred from party to party, largely in the years before knowledge of DNA was scant so people did not realize the extent they were wrecking evidence. So there is no way of knowing if Cooper was the source. Another tantalizing what if is that Cooper left behind some cigarette butts which could have been a rich source of DNA had they been preserved, but they were apparently discarded or lost sometime in the 70's. I read though that they do have a palm print they believe is from Cooper. So that might have been what could have tied him to an existing criminal record.

For what its worth, CHAT GPT rated the chances of Cooper having a previous criminal record as pretty good. And that there simply wasn't enough evidence to tie him to anything. He apparently did go to considerable lengths to avoid leaving behind evidence like asking for his notes back. So it does seem to indicate not only that he had some experience in committing crimes but also that he might have been concerned there was something on record from him somewhere. I acknowledge though that doesn't prove it, he might have simply been very smart and very cautious even on his first crime. No way of knowing for sure.

ChatGPT has access to all the information on the internet.. The problem is.. It has access to all the information on the internet.

Your points about Coopers'.. Fasitidiousness(?) when it comes to making sure, or attempting to make sure, that he left no evidence behind is one of the big reasons I discount McCoy as being him.. Remember that McCoy accidentally left the hijacking note in the terminal after he boarded the plane and they had to bring it to him.

It's because I see Cooper either being, as mentioned, involved in aerospace or the military.. The two places that likely would have been working with Titanium at the time that I don't think he had a criminal record. nothing serious, at least. I mean, I could see the guy having a DUI.. But.. Let's be honest.. How many people actually got arrested for DUI back in the 70's? Here in rural SC at least, if they caught you driving drunk, they'd either tell you to be careful and go home, follow you home to make sure you made it OK or they'd haul you in and put you in a cell for the night and then release you without charge the next morning. So.. I just don't see him having done, and been caught, for something that would result in any time being served. It really wasn't until the 80's and MADD and the like that DUI really became a thing.

While you are correct that the records weren't like they are now at the time.. They are that way now.. Which.. The odds are that if he was in the system, as the system become what it is today, he would have been flagged. At least, it seems that way to me.

You are also quite correct that the 'evidence' that exists.. We don't know if the DNA profiles from the tie clip are his. They could be anyone from investigators to it being transfer from a flight attendant for all we know.. though, one would think the entire flight crew would have exclusionary prints collected, even at the time, and likely would have been asked for DNA for the same purposes by now.

And.. Yes.. The cigarette butts would be the holy grail now. Kinda like the skeleton found on Gardner island.. If we had it, most likely would verify or completely shut down that theory.. But, sadly, we don't have either.

Lots of things we can say "If only...".. If it happened a few years later, we'd probably have camera footage from the time he arrived at the airport to the time he boarded the plane. So, not only video of him to back up the sketches, but we'd likely know the answer to how he arrived at the airport. If it had been a few years later, it would never have happened, because the bag with the 'bomb' would never have made it through security.