Desi, in my opinion, doesn't receive enough credit for the success of I Love Lucy. The guy never received an Emmy nomination and never got credit for running the show because everyone assumed Lucy ran things. Well of course it was actually Desi that made sure everything was in place for the show's success. He made sure Bob and Madelyn produced great scripts and when they didn't, he always gave them helpful, constructive suggestions which they used to make a not so good script into a great one. He also made sure all the props, costumes, cameras, ect were going well kept everyone on the set happy, and kept everything flowing smooth. He continued doing so for the superior first season of The Lucy Show as well. Well, after he left The Lucy Show at the end of the first season, Gary started taking over some of the roles Desi was doing, mainly the person the writers had to pitch a script too. Unfortunately, his abilities to recoginize poor scripts wasn't nearly that of Desi's. As a result, Lucy started finding herself in situations that were simply ridiculous and without any logical premises. Gary also wouldn't tone down Lucy's on set tiradesand let her criticize people in negatives ways, ways Desi never let her do and always did himself in a constructive, helpful manner. As a result, she lost many good people like her writers, who left after 2nd season of The Lucy Show. Then Gary wasn't exactly nice to Vivian either, which, in my opinion, helped lead to her departure from The Lucy Show after season 3. Well, by season 4, Gary had done so many things wrong Desi would have done right, The Lucy Show wasn't nearly as good as it was under Desi in Season 1. And it never got any better either not saying there weren't a few standout episodes during that time. Here's Lucy showed a pickup from The Lucy Show. With a whole new plot and the addition of Desi Jr and Lucie things were really going good especially in season 3 when Bob and Madelyn returned as writers. Unfortunately Desi Jr left at the end of season 3 and Gary, who by then had complete control, let everything go downhill, especially in Season 5.

Desi was the master behind Lucy. Desi worked hard as did Lucy. The divorce was a mistake in my opinion and never should have happend.

I know, isn't it tempting to think how different her life would have been if she had reconciled with him at some point?

Oh, if Desi would have stayed with Lucy The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy wouldn't just be good series, they would have been equal to I Love Lucy.

Yes, but they might have killed each other in the process. And remember that The Mothers in Law, produced by Desi only lasted a couple of seasons, the magic was the four of them together with those great scripts by those geat writers, and don't forget Jess' contribution too!

Just realized that Desi might have directed his own kids on Here's Lucy, love that scenario!

Originally posted by Fan of old shows Desi was the master behind Lucy. Desi worked hard as did Lucy. The divorce was a mistake in my opinion and never should have happend.100% With Fan Of Old Shows!

Originally posted by oldshows
Oh, if Desi would have stayed with Lucy The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy wouldn't just be good series, they would have been equal to I Love Lucy.

The Lucy - Desi Comedy Hour didn't equal ILL. Neither did the few episodes that Desi (produced/directed) during the first season of The Lucy Show.

The four main characters could've reunited, the writers, the producers, everyone and it wouldn't have been the same. Why? Because the viewer would judge it, always compare it (as we do now with TLS and HL).

Originally posted by oldshows
Desi, in my opinion, doesn't receive enough credit for the success of I Love Lucy. The guy never received an Emmy nomination and never got credit for running the show because everyone assumed Lucy ran things. Well of course it was actually Desi that made sure everything was in place for the show's success. He made sure Bob and Madelyn produced great scripts and when they didn't, he always gave them helpful, constructive suggestions which they used to make a not so good script into a great one. He also made sure all the props, costumes, cameras, ect were going well kept everyone on the set happy, and kept everything flowing smooth. He continued doing so for the superior first season of The Lucy Show as well. Well, after he left The Lucy Show at the end of the first season, Gary started taking over some of the roles Desi was doing, mainly the person the writers had to pitch a script too. Unfortunately, his abilities to recoginize poor scripts wasn't nearly that of Desi's. As a result, Lucy started finding herself in situations that were simply ridiculous and without any logical premises. Gary also wouldn't tone down Lucy's on set tiradesand let her criticize people in negatives ways, ways Desi never let her do and always did himself in a constructive, helpful manner. As a result, she lost many good people like her writers, who left after 2nd season of The Lucy Show. Then Gary wasn't exactly nice to Vivian either, which, in my opinion, helped lead to her departure from The Lucy Show after season 3. Well, by season 4, Gary had done so many things wrong Desi would have done right, The Lucy Show wasn't nearly as good as it was under Desi in Season 1. And it never got any better either not saying there weren't a few standout episodes during that time. Here's Lucy showed a pickup from The Lucy Show. With a whole new plot and the addition of Desi Jr and Lucie things were really going good especially in season 3 when Bob and Madelyn returned as writers. Unfortunately Desi Jr left at the end of season 3 and Gary, who by then had complete control, let everything go downhill, especially in Season 5.

Bob and Madelyn returned in Season 4 (They wrote the famous "Burton-Taylor" episode in season 3, but that was it)

I believe both Lucie and Desi Jr. have said that Gary handled more of the business (day to day) activities in connection with Lucy in the 60's and 70's. If what's written in "I Loved Lucy" is correct, I believe he took more control over her career in the late 70's and 80's and yes then he didn't make the best decisions (and if what's written is true the money and not the creative usually clouded that decision which is unfortunate).

During the "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" years, Lucy ran a tight ship. Anytime she had a conflict about whether a script was good or not she ALWAYS turned to Desi for advice.

TLS and HL not matching up to ILL, in my opinion, is unfortunately
as with all shows being on the air for a long time the quality starts to wane. Lucille Ball was on the air for over 20+ years playing the "Lucy" character and unfortunately it's hard to keep coming up with "great episodes" putting the character in new situations, therefore it looks "stale" and "weak" even if the same amount of effort is being put into it each week

That was all very well said, i would only add that after 23 years of the same silly ideas she needed to change her character to someone more sophisticated and the comedy would have come out of the characters like it did on Cheers or Mary Tyler Moore, but Lucy changing with the times, she NEVER would have gone for that, she thought she lasted that long BECAUSE she never changed! And in some ways that was true, people loved her because they could count on her to be the same, the one thing in America that never did change in spite of wars and recessions and all the other things that drive us nuts!

Originally posted by oldshows
Oh, if Desi would have stayed with Lucy The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy wouldn't just be good series, they would have been equal to I Love Lucy.
I bet if Lucy and Desi never split up I Love Lucy would have kept running til maybe the 1965-1966 season and would have color eps. for those crazy color lucy fans....and Lucy and Desi could had worked on more TV shows together.

Are you kidding, they'd probably still be working together today, Lucy would do a guest spot on the Osbournes, Desi would have an interview with Connie Chung and hit on her, and Gale would do his cartwheel on a Jackass episode!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Are you kidding, they'd probably still be working together today, Lucy would do a guest spot on the Osbournes, Desi would have an interview with Connie Chung and hit on her, and Gale would do his cartwheel on a Jackass episode!

Probably!LoL!:happyface! That would be funny!

I was always sorry Lucy didn't work more with some modern shows like Saturday Night Live, they finally asked her when they heard she was dying in the hospital, jerks!

Gosh, The Other Fan, the way your talking about how unfortunate it was TLS and HL didn't compare with ILL and how all shows quality wanes over time just as Lucy did, you make it sound like these shows were terrible. Yes, I'll admit they weren't ILL but then again what other show ever made can compare with ILL. TLS and HL were good in there own right, had some really great classic episodes, along with some flops, and deserve to be back on the air.

Exactly, well said Oldshows, while i was growing up and looking at those series, we had to make the comments that they always recycled the SAME ideas and plots, and it did get nauseating after a while, HOWEVER, people should stop comparing the later series to the GREATEST TV show of all time, THE ONLY SHOW inducted into the TV Hall of fame! I have 165 of the ILL shows, but i'm presently watching The Lucy show and ENJOYING it more, because i haven't memorized these yet, so that alone makes them worthwhile, and i can't wait to order Here's Lucy copies from someone once i get tired of The Lucy show. They are all great and i want them all because they ALL starred the greatest actress comedienne of all time, and they ALL had some great writing, and great co stars and second bananas. Even Lucy's specials you could make the same arguments about, but they were all different and all had SOME redeeming values. I can't wait to see those Here's Lucy episodes again, some will be GREAT, some will be so so and some will be bad, but there were dogs in the ILL shows also, remember Drafted and Scotland and a few others! But watching the greatest clown of all time and one of the most gifted performers the world has ever known make even those episodes great to me!

Originally posted by oldshows
Gosh, The Other Fan, the way your talking about how unfortunate it was TLS and HL didn't compare with ILL and how all shows quality wanes over time just as Lucy did, you make it sound like these shows were terrible. Yes, I'll admit they weren't ILL but then again what other show ever made can compare with ILL. TLS and HL were good in there own right, had some really great classic episodes, along with some flops, and deserve to be back on the air.

Uhhh, I think it's the other way around.

Isn't this thread about Gary's negative effect on Here's Lucy, and the shows dipping in quality after Desi left?

My point is the shows possible dipping in quality had less to do with Desi Arnaz departure, and moreso with the fact that ALL shows after a certain time begin to dip in quality.

Also, no matter if Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz continued a working relationship, nothing they did in the public's mind would ever be as good as ILL.

Basically what I'm trying to say, it's pointless to put the blame on Gary for a dip in the shows overall quality. Even though he took more control over and made some bad decisions in the latter part of Lucy's life and career (the late 70's and 80's), during the TLS and HL period he handled more of the day to day business not what happened on the shows (creatively).

For the record I love all of Lucy's work equally...

I didn't mean to imply the later Lucy series were terrible when I said Gary had negative effects, I meant to say these good shows could be EVEN BETTER if Gary wouldn't have made some bad decisions with scripts, ect. I've read Lucy biographies that talks about how Gary took control creatively and hurt things and these biographies had interviews with Lucy cast and crew about Gary and his creative decisions. And yes, I too love all of Lucy's works.

Originally posted by oldshows
I didn't mean to imply the later Lucy series were terrible when I said Gary had negative effects, I meant to say these good shows could be EVEN BETTER if Gary wouldn't have made some bad decisions with scripts, ect. I've read Lucy biographies that talks about how Gary took control creatively and hurt things and these biographies had interviews with Lucy cast and crew about Gary and his creative decisions. And yes, I too love all of Lucy's works.

I believe Lucie and Desi Jr. have said that Gary (During the TLS and HL Periods) handle more of the day to day business than what happened on the show (correct me if I'm wrong)...I think his role in Lucy's career increased during the later years ( the late 70's and the 80's), but Lucy ran a tight ship during the TLS and HL.

It says in the book "Desilu", a biography on Lucy and Desi that Gary had creative control by the time Bob and Madalyn returned(at least on a part time basis) during season 3 of HL after being away since season 2 of TLS according to those two. They said they really enjoyed working with Lucy again but the only problem was they now had to pitch the script to Gary which they said was really unfortunate. Yes, Lucy did run a tight script and run a lot of things on stage but yes Gary's influence was there especially on scripts.

Originally posted by oldshows
It says in the book "Desilu", a biography on Lucy and Desi that Gary had creative control by the time Bob and Madalyn returned(at least on a part time basis) during season 3 of HL after being away since season 2 of TLS according to those two. They said they really enjoyed working with Lucy again but the only problem was they now had to pitch the script to Gary which they said was really unfortunate. Yes, Lucy did run a tight script and run a lot of things on stage but yes Gary's influence was there especially on scripts.

Bob and Madelyn returned during Season 4 of "Here's Lucy". They wrote one episode (The Liz Taylor - Burton episode) during season 3 and that was it.

Although I've read the "Desilu" bio on numerous occasions, I do not have the book here to reference what your saying at this point. However, I believe the quotes you have from Madelyn and Bob are from their work with Gary on "Life With Lucy". On that particular program, Bob and Madelyn (and the other writers that worked on the short-lived series) had to pitch the scripts to Gary, but they (Bob and Madelyn) would make end-runs around Gary and went straight to Lucille.

*edit*

After a little research from my handy "The Lucy Book",lol

A quote from Lucie Arnaz

"Gary ran the business. About what was funny, he usually deferred to my mother. It was my mother's choice as to what story lines would fly. Gary would audition people...that sort of thing. A lot of people have written about how he changed the comedy on the show. That would be impossible to do. My father had great influence on my mother's comedy. After he left, Gary did not fill that spot. He would never have tried. He did not deal with the writers like my father did. That became my mother's job. And Cleo really worked hard as a line producer. She made sure everyone got paid, that all union requirements were met, and that things ran smoothly. Mom had the upper hand on the set always, but Gary and Cleo made certain Lucille Ball Productions was in good working order. Cleo is brilliant, capable, and real. She produced over 100 shows and specials."


A quote from Desi Arnaz Jr.

"I'd like to say something about Gary Morton. You know, he and Cleo really produce those shows. I don't remember Mom being in on casting, or making sure the show came in on budget. They had real jobs to do, and they did them very well. People who have written books trying to characterize Gary as less than professional, or just as Mom's consort, are just looking to cash in, sensationalize, and exploit, and are looking to make money. Gary's influence was extraordinary, both on and off the set. He was a good man, and I think people have an axe to grind. My professional experience with Gary was wonderful; Here's Lucy was film heaven compared to some sets I've worked on."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by That Other Fan
[B]

Bob and Madelyn returned during Season 4 of "Here's Lucy". They wrote one episode (The Liz Taylor - Burton episode) during season 3 and that was it.

It's still a return during season 3 if only for one episode. But on to the Gary in control issue. I do have the Desilu book with me and here is an excerpt from P.325. "Their (Bob and Madalyn's) Here's Lucy experience was, however, not always particularly satisfying or pleasant. As Bob Carroll notes, 'The big thing was that Gary was in complete charge by then. Now you've gotta go and pitch the stories to him. That was too bad'".
Hard to argue with that one isn't it?

Forgot an important excerpt. P.328 "According to Cleo 'Gary finally got to the point with props, costumes and other departments where he got creative control. He knew how to manipulate it so they wouldn't go to Lucy. He'd say 'You want anything, you come to me' When asked about stuff Lucy would say 'I don't know anything about that, go see Gary' So she began to give him control"
That's a pretty strong statement of Gary's control

Originally posted by oldshows

It's still a return during season 3 if only for one episode.


In actuality it wasn't really a return in the third season, when Lucille got the Burtons to agree to do the ep, all of the other episodes for that season had been produced so Lucille prevailed upon Bob and Madelyn to return a write this particular ep.


But on to the Gary in control issue. I do have the Desilu book with me and here is an excerpt from P.325. "Their (Bob and Madalyn's) Here's Lucy experience was, however, not always particularly satisfying or pleasant. As Bob Carroll notes, 'The big thing was that Gary was in complete charge by then. Now you've gotta go and pitch the stories to him. That was too bad'".
Hard to argue with that one isn't it?

Well then it's Lucie and Desi Jr (and a few others if you want their quotes about Gary's relationship with the show at that time) against Madelyn and Bob and again that quote screams Life With Lucy instead of HL.

And as Desi Jr said "People who have written books trying to characterize Gary as less than professional, or just as Mom's consort, are just looking to cash in, sensationalize, and exploit, and are looking to make money."

I'll just leave that as it is...

Forgot an important excerpt. P.328 "According to Cleo 'Gary finally got to the point with props, costumes and other departments where he got creative control. He knew how to manipulate it so they wouldn't go to Lucy. He'd say 'You want anything, you come to me' When asked about stuff Lucy would say 'I don't know anything about that, go see Gary' So she began to give him control"
That's a pretty strong statement of Gary's control


Not necessarily, my knew jerk reaction is to ask about what Lucille Ball would say "I don't know anything about that, go see Gary". As controlling as many say Lucille Ball was during that time why would she then defer to Gary? Unless it was about something behind the scenes as in casting, money (the show coming in on budget, which both Lucie and Desi both say Gary handled and then yes that would include 'behind the scenes' things such as Props, costumes and so forth...)

Cleo was a producer just as Gary so much of her memories would come from "behind the scenes" things that wouldn't necessarily effect what we saw on the screen and Gary may have been controlling in some individuals eyes there, and rightfully so, because in relation to that he was (as Executive Producer) second in command. Second to Lucy

It may scream LWL but it is HL like the book says, you can't argue with what the book says. Secondly, like the Cleo quote says Gary had influence on the creative direction of the show and that influence did show through and negatively affect the show. As for the Bob and Madalyn return how about if I put it like this.....Bob and Madalyn RETURNED to work with Lucy for the first time season the end of season two of TLS to write the season 3 episode "Lucy Meets the Burtons". Now please argue with that!!

Originally posted by oldshows
It may scream LWL but it is HL like the book says, you can't argue with what the book says.

Your arguing quotes from Lucie and Desi Jr that specifically say Gary Morton wasn't involved in the creative side of the show, why can't I argue your points? That again scream LWL instead of HL....

Possibly Madelyn and Bob were misquoted (meaning their comments placed in the book in relation to the wrong show) .

Also if you want to get technical about it, as was the case with LWL, the writers ignored Gary and went straight to Lucy, if what Bob and Madelyn say is true (and obviously I'm not saying that it is...correction it may be true, but in relation to the wrong Lucille Ball show) who's to say they didn't do the same during "Here's Lucy" (and again just hypothetically)

Secondly, like the Cleo quote says Gary had influence on the creative direction of the show and that influence did show through and negatively affect the show.

I'll just cut/paste what I've already said, as it still represents my point...

Cleo was a producer just as Gary so much of her memories would come from "behind the scenes" things that wouldn't necessarily effect what we saw on the screen and Gary may have been controlling in some individuals eyes there, and rightfully so, because in relation to that he was (as Executive Producer) second in command. Second to Lucy.


As for the Bob and Madalyn return how about if I put it like this.....Bob and Madalyn RETURNED to work with Lucy for the first time season the end of season two of TLS to write the season 3 episode "Lucy Meets the Burtons". Now please argue with that!!

What are you talking about exactly??????

Do you mean HL instead of TLS???

If so...

As you've said you can't argue with the book, and as it says, all the episodes for season 3 had been produced when Taylor and Burton agreed to do the ep at the last moment. Upon this happening Bob and Madelyn were prevailed upon to write the episode and Jerry Paris (who once appeared on 'The Dick Van Dyke' show) was brought in to direct it.

I so much wish there was a special look-behind-the-scenes program for both The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy as well as "Inside TV Land: The Lucy Show". As it stands now, many fans and viewers are confused what to believe when it comes down to Lucy and her later shows. This is why I have always said that there needs to be a documentary of some sort clarifying some of the material over Lucille Ball and her later shows that you guys have mentioned/argued about.

As for the Bob and Madalyn return how about if I put it like this.....Bob and Madalyn RETURNED to work with Lucy for the first time season the end of season two of TLS to write the season 3 episode "Lucy Meets the Burtons". Now please argue with that!!

How about if I rewrite that to say this:
As for the Bob and Madalyn return how about if I put it like this.....Bob and Madalyn RETURNED to work with Lucy for the first time since the end of season two of TLS to write the season 3 Here's Lucy episode "Lucy Meets the Burtons".

There, that sounds clearer.

Oh, here's a quote from Lucie from P.328 of Desilu. "I don't think anyone thought of Gary as Mr. Ball. He proved himself able to run the company. I don't think he was a creative genius at picking scripts though."
Ok, here Lucie is admitting Gary had control at picking scripts which is creative control.

Originally posted by LucyFan
I so much wish there was a special look-behind-the-scenes program for both The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy as well as "Inside TV Land: The Lucy Show". As it stands now, many fans and viewers are confused what to believe when it comes down to Lucy and her later shows.

I'm not confused...lol

J/K;)

Originally posted by oldshows

Oh, here's a quote from Lucie from P.328 of Desilu. "I don't think anyone thought of Gary as Mr. Ball. He proved himself able to run the company. I don't think he was a creative genius at picking scripts though."
Ok, here Lucie is admitting Gary had control at picking scripts which is creative control.

This is supposedely Lucie's comment about Gary's during Here's Lucy???

Well considering both Lucie and Desi Jr. have commented on Gary having little to do with the creative output on the show, this does lend to my point above about Bob and Madelyn being misquoted, and the writer(s) of the book possibly placing their comments about working with Gary on "Life With Lucy" in reference to "Here's Lucy".

As for the Bob and Madalyn return how about if I put it like this.....Bob and Madalyn RETURNED to work with Lucy for the first time since the end of season two of TLS to write the season 3 Here's Lucy episode "Lucy Meets the Burtons".

Ohhhh...ok, Gotcha!

Yes, Lucie's quote was regarding Here's Lucy. In fact, the book talks alot about the creative control Gary had with Here's Lucy. Who knows, it seems we both have creditable sources. Oh well, I don't guess it really matters today. We still have 500 wonderful episodes of Lucy to watch!!

Well as Desi Jr said, sometimes writers are looking to "expliot" and "sensationlize", so it's always best to take everything you read in regards to Lucy (or any other entertainer ) with a grain of salt. I can't tell you the countless times that I've read made up crap about some high profile individual (info that I know for a fact not be the truth), and seen it printed as fact.

And to be truthfully honest I'm not really fan of "Desilu" the book (although I've read it on more than one occasion)...but that's just me.

Infact I'm not to fond of "The Lucy Book" either,lol. I personally feel the author is over crtical of Lucy's later work...but again, that's just me.

It's true you need to take everything with a grain of salt but Desilu isn't the only book that says Gary did have some creative control. And I don't think with all the research these authors have done they would just make something like that up. I do feel Gary had SOME creative control and it did at times show through on Here's Lucy....mainly the bad episodes.

Thanks guys, that was VERY INTERESTING, one of the best discussions on the subject. I LOVED the fact that i'm not the only one thinking that Desilu is a GREAT read, but how accurate? And even the Lucy book comment about the author being very critical of Lucy's later work, remember it's his OPINION! Every time i get critical of Gary, i try and remember how the kids felt about him. Did they LOVE him becauise he mediated so many fights at home, or was it true that he did his job well, as they were on the set with him for years!

I do think he loved Lucie and Desi Jr and did his best to be a good step-father to them. And I think they loved him back for it. I respect him for that. I just don't think he was a creative genius like Desi was and it did show through at times during HL.

Originally posted by oldshows
It's true you need to take everything with a grain of salt but Desilu isn't the only book that says Gary did have some creative control. And I don't think with all the research these authors have done they would just make something like that up.

And hopefully, neither would the author of the book in which I'm getting quotes from...

So once again, were back at "he said/she said", and the possibility of authors misquoting certain individuals...for whatever reasons.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
And even the Lucy book comment about the author being very critical of Lucy's later work, remember it's his OPINION!

True...I guess my biggest hangup with the author is that, imo, he seems to go out of his way to find fault when criticizing Lucy's later work.

Ex. The “Inconsistencies” in characters and their actions in Here's Lucy (or TLS), which is usually followed by lines like "These types of inconsistencies would have never taken place with Desi or Jess Oppenheimer in charge“...What??? There were a ton of inconsistencies and things that slipped pass even Jess and Desi, concerning the ILL scripts and what we eventually saw on the screen…..my rant for today...lol

Did they LOVE him becauise he mediated so many fights at home, or was it true that he did his job well, as they were on the set with him for years!

There are two or three more quotes from different individuals, other than Lucie and Desi Jr. (if memory serves), that pretty much back up what they've said about Gary in relation to Here's Lucy.

And there are more quotes and discussion in the Desilu book that backs up what I've said. In fact there are several pages. Not to mention the other two books have said the same thing. And I guess its just my opinion, even if the books over estimated Gary's control I find it very hard to believe he had 0% creative control.

Originally posted by oldshows
And there are more quotes and discussion in the Desilu book that backs up what I've said. In fact there are several pages. Not to mention the other two books have said the same thing. And I guess its just my opinion, even if the books over estimated Gary's control I find it very hard to believe he had 0% creative control.

Like I said "he said/she said"...

And my comments meant nothing more than more than Lucie and Desi Jr. defended him in relation to his involvement in Here's Lucy.

Yeah, isn't it amazing that all those mistakes on ILL happened with Desi and Jess being so involved, maybe it had to do with them thinking the show would only be on for a season or two and not the greatest show TV ever produced! As for Gary, he was a former stand up comic, so he knew what would get laughs, that might have helped more to diffuse tense family arguments at home, then it did helping out the Queen of comedy on a show that rarely left the top ten in 23 years. Who knows, he might even have had great ideas, but her NEVER wanting to change might have KO'd those ideas. Nobody LOVES Lucy more than i do, but the way she talked to him alone, i might have killed her if i'd been him, she did always try to get respect for her husbands, she built them up in everyone's eyes, and i LOVE the stories where they finally say he did a good job, especially coming from Desi jr, who at least i BELIEVE! One last thing, yes, it's true the author of The Lucy book is very critical of Lucy's work. People who have never done anything worthwhile can criticize to their hearts content, it's so much easier than having to survive all those years in the arena Lucy worked in, working hard to stay on top, and entertaining the world for a half century!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Yeah, isn't it amazing that all those mistakes on ILL happened with Desi and Jess being so involved, maybe it had to do with them thinking the show would only be on for a season or two and not the greatest show TV ever produced!

:lol: That's true, but it just amazes me the level of hypocrisy in certain authors when critiquing Lucy's later work.

As for Gary, he was a former stand up comic, so he knew what would get laughs

Of course, I think it's obvious that Lucy may have sought out his (and others) advice about certain scripts, afterall he was executive producer of the show.

BTW, during a visit to the library, I took a glance at all of the Lucy's Bio that were in stock, and that I don't own (which is most of them,lol). For the record, "Desilu" was the only book in which I read quotes, or anything of the kind, about Gary being "controlling" during the HL period. Infact "Desilu" was the only book that even talked about Gary being involved in the creative side of the show.


Also, after re-reading alot of the "Desilu" book, I now know why I never purchased it! Trash...."That's all I have to say about that" :p

*Looking at the number of posts in this thread*

38 (39 with this post), is that some kind of record for the "Here's Lucy" Message board???:lol:

We just can't agree on anything can we. I actually liked the Desilu book. Oh, there is something we can agree on.....we both love Lucy:) I guess that's all that really matters but I have enjoyed discussing this though. I do still think Gary had some control but maybe not as much as I did before. Thanks for the great discussion.

Originally posted by oldshows
We just can't agree on anything can we.

:lol: Apparently not..

J/K


I actually liked the Desilu book.

It has it's moments , but just a tad to "tabloidish" and "Trashy, soap opera, tell-all" for my tastes.

I do still think Gary had some control but maybe not as much as I did before. Thanks for the great discussion.

For the record I am not a Gary Morton "fan" of any kind,lol

Just in case there is some sort of confusion...:D

I guess that's all that really matters but I have enjoyed discussing this though.

I did also, keep them coming...finally a good discussion about Lucy's later work. I love ILL, but it's nice to once and a while have a good discussion about Lucy's other (and some times overlooked,IMO) sitcoms.

I really enjoy talking about Lucy's later work more than ILL, I guess because TLS and HL doesn't get all the attention ILL does. Now, if we could just get TLS and HL back on t.v.

Well we almost saw the return of TLS...

:mad: @ The Hallmark Channel

lol

I've been praying that either Tvland will wake up and finally add this show to their line-up or some new up and coming cable network will finally bring TLS or HL back!

You'd think there would be more interest in Lucy's later (from the general public), considering the dominance the shows had during their time on the air

Add me to the group of people who now watch her later work, and enjoy it more than the ones we've seen a thousand times, it's just common sense, it's not that we're sick of it, it's just that you DO want to see something different now and then. I LOVE getting her long lost specials and those rarely seen clips from the 80's on Entertainment tonight or quiz shows. The ONLY reason i'm not saying Here's Lucy, is because you can't find those shows anywhere, and that's VERY frustrating. I have all but 15 of the ILL shows. Only 50 of the 156 Lucy shows, and only one or two Here's Lucy episodes. Someone is making me the next 100 Lucy shows in the new year and then i tackle the hardest one Here's Lucy and i can't wait to see them again after so many years. Whenever i go on one of these boards and i hear descriptions, it all comes back to me as i've seen them all many times when they were on originally. I went nuts when i saw the Lucy shows, watched them again last week, all 50 of them, and i think i will have the same reaction when i finally get Here's Lucy. Yes, ILL is the greatest TV show of all time, but that was because Lucy's in it, i WANT ALL 500 SHOWS. they all have some redeeming things about them, they are all worth watching, mainly because Lucy is in all of them. Just having her real kids on teh first 3 seasons of HL made it worthwhile for me. As for the discussion about Gary, of course it's a popular thread. They were married for 28 years and produced two series together during that time. One of the main reasons i'm on these boards is to get the answers to the questions i've had my whole life, why was she so hard to work with, what was her relationship with her kids, and her husbands. One day, out of the blue, an answer comes to you in the most unexpected places, someone read something and relates it, and you finally have the answer you were looking for, it's worth the wait. I especially LOVE talking to people who know what they're talking about, i don't like wasting my time with Lucy's shoe size or the latest Lucy cookie jar, but then again anything that has to do with Lucy is NEVER a waste of time to me. As for Desilu, i LOVE the book, it was different from anything else i had read, i was shocked by some of the contents, but i LOVE gossip, so i was not bored! I reread it once in a while, it's one of my favorites. That whole Desilu thing was VERY interesting. We could go on for days on that subject alone, i see i'm already rambling so let's keep this one going and i'll get back to the Gary thing. . .

By the way, who are you two and why don't you come on all the Lucy boards? Some of them could sure use your knowledge and opinions!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I went nuts when i saw the Lucy shows, watched them again last week, all 50 of them, and i think i will have the same reaction when i finally get Here's Lucy.

LOL, I can not even begin to explain how happy I was to finally see "Here's Lucy". It was by luck that I even saw it. In my area, when PAX first aired it, it was under the title of "Lunch With Lucy" (That's the way it was billed on one of those "What's on" Channels...you know what I mean, the shows coming on within the next hour scrolls from the bottom of the tv screen to the top,lol). Unfortunately, I hadn't heard anything about HL coming to PAX, so I had no idea if "Lunch With Lucy" was some "clever" idea by some exec to promote "The Lucy Show's" (I initially thought it would be TLS) return to national syndication, or if it was some new, most likely BORING, talk show. Thankfully I decided to flip to PAX and check it out ( I put a blank tape into the VCR just incase, lol). When that animated doll, dressed as Lucy, walk across the screen.....ME on that day > :eek: LOL

One of the main reasons i'm on these boards is to get the answers to the questions i've had my whole life, why was she so hard to work with, what was her relationship with her kids, and her husbands.

Although, Lucy was pretty tough (ok VERY tough,lol), and at times irascible, I think her actions could be blown out of proportion because she was a woman (JMO).

Ex. I don't remember which book I read this in (speaking of the devil it was most likely "Desilu", lol), but someone described Desi as a director during the "Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour". My mind is a little foggy on what was actually said, I believe the quote is from Milton Berle. He says something about Desi, during one rehearsal, forcibly moving one actors head into the angle he wanted it in.

A few pages later, the author talks about Lucy during HL, kicking some guest stars feet into the position she desired.

What's the difference between these two scenarios? Nothing IMO, if anyone grabs my face and turns into whatever direction they feel it needs to be, or if their kicking my feet into the area of the floor in which they feel I should stand...I'm not going to be very happy to say the least (Meaning I could have NEVER worked with Lucy or Desi...without tranquilizers to calm my temper,lol). Yet Desi was praised as a director and Lucy was considered a controlling b****!

Perhaps there is more to each story that I've just shared (there always is), that shows why Desi did what he did and therefore making it "OK". Perhaps because Lucy was often so untactful in her actions and choice of words, that what she did often "stung" more so than Desi. Personally, it just proves to me that some didn't like some of Lucy's behavior because she was a woman in charge. Not only in charge but had the power to see to it that you never worked in Hollywood again.



One day, out of the blue, an answer comes to you in the most unexpected places, someone read something and relates it, and you finally have the answer you were looking for, it's worth the wait.

That's very true. Although, I've always suspected it, but it wasn't until "I Loved Lucy" that I finally understood alot of Lucy actions. Personally I feel that rough exterior hid someone who was easily hurt.

By the way, who are you two and why don't you come on all the Lucy boards? Some of them could sure use your knowledge and opinions!

The only Lucy Boards I know of are the Lucy forums on this MB and Lucy Talk. I frequent them pretty often, sometimes I look (or "lurk",lol) without saying anything.

Yes, I VERY MUCH miss TLS and HL. I haven't been able to watch either since 1999. Hallmark had me all excited this fall but then broke my heart when they announced TLS wouldn't be showing TLS afterall. I know I've been emailing TVLAND frequently and urging others to do the same. I just know it will pay off one day soon. If not TVLAND than some other channel. I really don't understand why neither show is on a national network right now. TLS was in the top 10 all 6 seasons including 4 seasons in the top 5. HL was in the top 10 its first 4 seasons including #3 its 3rd season. So both were very popular shows and everybody knows Lucille Ball is extremely popular and her other shows would draw many viewers today.

Hallmark had me all excited this fall but then broke my heart when they announced TLS wouldn't be showing TLS afterall.

This should say Hallmark had me all excited this fall but then broke my heart when they announced THEY wouldn't be showing TLS afterall. Sorry for my confusing lapse there.

I've always liked the idea that some one had for Lucy cable network..."All Lucy, All The Time"

It would feature

ILL
LDCH
TLS
HL
(all of her tv talk and Game Show appearence)
and all of the movies she starred in


Could you even imagine?


lol

That would work too! Lucy has enough episodes, movies, specials, guest apperances, ect. to run a network for a month without repeating anything.

Ok, that other fan, i LOVED some of the points you made, the Christmas party is on though, so i haven't got time to answer, but i just love the comparaison you made to Desi AND lucy's directing, it's true, back then, if a woman got uppity, it was a major thing, but to be frank, she did talk that way. Some people, again in that book Desilu, mention that she yealls at Gary, and they hated her for it, or lost respect for her treatment of him. Of course you're right, they couldn't stand this woman telling everybody what to do. That's why i got a kick out of reading Sherry Lansing, head of Paramount, SITTING IN THE LUCILLE BALL BUILDING AT PARAMOUNT, how times change, we'll get this topic going again on Monday, very interesting and you guys all make great points!