Dawsongirl, you didn't answer my question on the General issues board, so I'll ask here. You indicated in that thread "Name Sitcoms with Very Good Reputations that You Just Can't Watch" that you don't like I Love Lucy anymore. I was wondering what brought you to the point of not liking the show. Do you not enjoy any of it now? Do none of the episodes make you laugh at all? What is it about Lucille Ball's performance that annoys you? What did you used to find funny about her that you don't now? And why do you still like posting in this group if you don't like watching Lucy? Thanks.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Dawsongirl, you didn't answer my question on the General issues board, so I'll ask here. You indicated in that thread "Name Sitcoms with Very Good Reputations that You Just Can't Watch" that you don't like I Love Lucy anymore. I was wondering what brought you to the point of not liking the show. Do you not enjoy any of it now? Do none of the episodes make you laugh at all? What is it about Lucille Ball's performance that annoys you? What did you used to find funny about her that you don't now? And why do you still like posting in this group if you don't like watching Lucy? Thanks.

These are great questions that need answers. I have been wondering about this myself.

Don't worry people, things happen, people change, it's normal. After watching a show for so many years (Not implying that you're old ;)) Some people just don't find it as great as the first couple of times around. It happened to me with Diff'rent Strokes and it's about to happen with Golden Girls. It's part of life. Change is necesary if youwant to move on and grow as a person. Does it bother you all that she doesn't like it any more?

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Don't worry people, things happen, people change, it's normal. After watching a show for so many years (Not implying that you're old ;)) Some people just don't find it as great as the first couple of times around. It happened to me with Diff'rent Strokes and it's about to happen with Golden Girls. It's part of life. Change is necesary if youwant to move on and grow as a person. Does it bother you all that she doesn't like it any more?

Yep...if I barf myself out on a show- I tend to get pretty tired of it. Like Chris says, it's a part of life. I think since Cathy (Dawsongirl) is the moderator of the boards, she patrols here a few times to make sure everybody is getting along okay and that no fights have broken out.

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Don't worry people, things happen, people change, it's normal. After watching a show for so many years (Not implying that you're old ;)) Some people just don't find it as great as the first couple of times around.

I understand what you mean because there have been plenty of shows I've liked the first time around but then got bored with them. But this is Lucy! I've been watching her all my life, which (trust me) is a long time. Granted, I don't enjoy it to the same degree as I did years ago. In fact, I found myself enjoying Here's Lucy more than I Love Lucy, but only because Here's Lucy seemed fresher (because I hadn't seen those episodes a thousand times each like I had with I Love Lucy). But I still like I Love Lucy. It frequently can still make me laugh. There are very, very few shows that I can come back to over and over again and still enjoy. And none more than I Love Lucy.

Originally posted by LucyFan
These are great questions that need answers. I have been wondering about this myself.

I'm glad it's not just me. To me, it's kind of like losing one of the flock when someone goes from being a big Lucy fan to no longer even liking Lucy.

Sorry Jane, I didn't see the question.

Like Chris said, I just watched it SOOO much and yes, my tastes have changed. It's not that I hate it by any means, I just don't feel like watching it. After awhile I'll probably be able to go back and find it funny again. I did that with I Dream of Jeannie, The Monkees, etc. But now I'm just chilling out on all the slapstick comedy thing.

And I'll still be here as much as my busy school schedule allows.

You know I've found a lot of what you guys have said to be the case with me too. I am huge Lucy/ILL fan but I just don't feel the same excitement watching the shows nowadays that I once did. I tape the show every day and before I would look forward to going home after work to watch that day's episode, but now I find myself fast-fowarding through a lot of it or not even bothering to watch it at all.

I've seen some of the episodes close to a hundred times perhaps and never did I find myself bored with any of them until recently. The only shows I find myself NOT losing interest in are the Hollywood shows. Those aired last month and I watched those and loved them and laughed like always but now that they've switched back to the NY set and Europe, I find that I'm able to skip watching again. Perhaps when they cycle through again (or when I get the DVDs and see the uncut remastered episodes) I'll have more interest.

Joy

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Sorry Jane, I didn't see the question.

Like Chris said, I just watched it SOOO much and yes, my tastes have changed. It's not that I hate it by any means, I just don't feel like watching it. After awhile I'll probably be able to go back and find it funny again. I did that with I Dream of Jeannie, The Monkees, etc. But now I'm just chilling out on all the slapstick comedy thing.

And I'll still be here as much as my busy school schedule allows.

Thanks for 'splaining. I kind of understand about the slapstick thing. I used to laugh hysterically at scenes like the chocolate factory, but now that's one of my least favorite episodes (though it seems to be everyone else's favorite). I still enjoy much of the physical stuff, but when it borders on slapstick (like Ricky and the Mertzes falling all over one another when Lucy has to go to the hospital), I don't laugh. I'm not even that crazy about L.A. at Last! anymore. It's the little stuff on the show that most people ignore that makes me laugh the most. But like Joicetti, the Hollywood episodes are by far my favorite (in spite of L.A. at Last! which once upon a time was my favorite episode).

Well, i finally made it here, and you guys give me this disastrous welcome with DawsonGirl finally admitting what i long suspected, she is more of a Richard Dawson fan than a Lucyfan, i could just tell from the posts. I can understand the feeling that you've seen it all and you're a might tired of it, but there are always new shows or specials or guest shots to see, she had 500 shows, hundreds of guest shots on other people's shows and quiz and talk shows too, not to mention the movies. I just recently found this guy that supplies copies of Lucy specials and guest shots, he'll soon add Ann Sothern and K O Kitty to his list of Lucy specials with Gleason and Carney and Dino and Burnett, not to mention Berle and Hope. Brock made me 50 Lucy show copies and soon will make me the remainder, then i'll find someone who'll make me Here's Lucy and i won't be at the mercy of programmers who keep showing ILL, but never anything else. I can understand you're being tired of her Dawsongirl, but i could never let her go completely, i hope that's the case for you too!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Well, i finally made it here, and you guys give me this disastrous welcome with DawsonGirl finally admitting what i long suspected, she is more of a Richard Dawson fan than a Lucyfan, i could just tell from the posts.

Oh, you've been teasing me about that for months. :D Tis true my love, but never fear....I'll still be around here to annoy you!.... (I have no idea where that came from) :lol:


I can understand you're being tired of her Dawsongirl, but i could never let her go completely, i hope that's the case for you too!

I'm not tired of her, just her shows. I'd rather pop in an old movie of hers than an ILL episode right now.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I'm not even that crazy about L.A. at Last! anymore.

I never really did like that episode. I always thought it was over-hyped. But I like Bill Holden, so that last part was okay.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Well, i finally made it here, and you guys give me this disastrous welcome with DawsonGirl finally admitting what i long suspected,

You "finally made it here" and just got a "disastrous welcome" yet you have "long suspected" this about Dawsongirl. What's the deal? Are you new (you have only 5 posts under this screen name), or have you been here a "long" time? I don't get it.

Dearest Jane, i have been dying to get into a big conversation with you since that FAMOUS thread of yours. I'm registered back in March but have never been able to get on due to my limited knowledge of computers so i would try, get fed up and leave, but when i read THAT thread i just knew i had to join and Dawsongirldiva also was a factor, i tried getting her on the boards i was on and she got me on here. I want to see why you guys have SUCH a reputation with Lucyfans, but don't worry, i don't like fights and will NEVER be a problem, i just need to find another board where people can talk without this constant fear of saying the wrong thing or get booted off, i can'r wait to start with you as you seem to know your Lucy stuff and so do I, and unlike some others, i don't worry about tarnishing Lucy's image, Lucy herself wouldn't mind as she was open and honest and only hid certain things to protect her fans and her image!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I want to see why you guys have SUCH a reputation with Lucyfans, but don't worry, i don't like fights and will NEVER be a problem, i just need to find another board where people can talk without this constant fear of saying the wrong thing or get booted off, i can'r wait to start with you as you seem to know your Lucy stuff and so do I, and unlike some others, i don't worry about tarnishing Lucy's image, Lucy herself wouldn't mind as she was open and honest and only hid certain things to protect her fans and her image!

We have a reputation here? Actually, there's very little fighting on this board. I don't know of anybody who's been booted off of here. If you post honest and well-intentioned thoughts about Lucy (which I do) I don't think you need to worry about being booted off. Most of us are adults here and aren't into pretending Lucille Ball was some goddess or something invented by movie studio publicity departments, but are willing to discuss the real person, which is far more interesting. The people who have difficulty accepting that Lucille Ball was a human being seemed to have left here on their own volition. So you should feel free to chime in.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I don't know of anybody who's been booted off of here.

One.

Well, i NEVER intend to be the second one to get booted off. I want to talk to people who realize that Lucy was human like all of us not a Saint, she knew that and never pretended to be one. I LOVED her no nonsense approach to life, no Bull for her, and that's really something these days with all that politically correct nonsense around us. I actuially spoke to the people who tangled with you back then and they, like you are some of the biggest and best Lucy fans, all of us should get along, everybody should be allowed to disagree. I just wish we could all do it at the same place, but instead, we have to be on several sites, which in a way i guess is good as it gives us more places to discuss Lucy! I told those people that they should stop looking at Lucy through rose colored glasses, and to my surprise, some of them agreed that they did. The ONLY problem i had with you was your choice of wording for that thread, a comedic genius, superstar who cared for the people around her and the world deserved better, that's all. She even admitted herself certain risquee things about herself, so even she wouldn't mind the discussion of it, but she certainly would have objected to the term used!

But, you did shake things up, and sometimes that makes it more interesting for the rest of us!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I actuially spoke to the people who tangled with you back then and they, like you are some of the biggest and best Lucy fans, all of us should get along, everybody should be allowed to disagree.

I agree, but those people you're talking about were of the opinion that, unless you have only adulation and praise for Lucille Ball, worship her, and are willing to put blinders on and close your mind to anything negative about her, you should not be allowed to have an opinion.


The ONLY problem i had with you was your choice of wording for that thread, a comedic genius, superstar who cared for the people around her and the world deserved better, that's all.

But if you are truly honest about the things I was writing about, and take it out of the context of being about "a comedic genius, superstar who cared about people around her" you will have to admit that was the correct term. I am sure that any regular person who engages in the behavior you (especially if it affected someone close to you) you would describe using the same term. Don't call it something different just because it's Lucille Ball. A spade is a spade.

She even admitted herself certain risquee things about herself, so even she wouldn't mind the discussion of it, but she certainly would have objected to the term used!

She might have objected to that term being used about herself, but she wouldn't have objected to it being used about other people. With the situation with Desi, she liked to portray herself as a victim, even though she affected another person's marriage the same way when she was younger. What goes around comes around.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I agree, but those people you're talking about were of the opinion that, unless you have only adulation and praise for Lucille Ball, worship her, and are willing to put blinders on and close your mind to anything negative about her, you should not be allowed to have an opinion.


Has anyone ever noticed that some of Lucy's fans are the absolute worst at that? To some, she sits atop a pedistal that towers over everyone, and she's so pure that no one can touch her.

I'd say something else, but I just remembered that SPLAIN got sick of hearing my analogies and comparisons. :D

I don't know if I said this before, but I didn't have a problem with Jane's infamous thread...or the term used. Sorry, but that's a common term.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Well, i NEVER intend to be the second one to get booted off.

Well, you didn't make your grand entrance calling me a bitch, so I think you'll be okay.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Has anyone ever noticed that some of Lucy's fans are the absolute worst at that? To some, she sits atop a pedistal that towers over everyone, and she's so pure that no one can touch her.

I have definitely noticed that! It's so ridiculous, I have to really wonder about those people. I'd love have the opinion of a psychologist to understand why these people have such a need to look up to another human being wanting to believe that person was perfect in every way. This must be tied to some personal insecurity. They have to have this perfect image of Lucille Ball and if anyone dares to disturb that image they go nuts. It's kind of like fundamentalist Christians are when certain issues like evolution or homosexuality or women's rights threaten their beliefs. They totally define themselves by those beliefs and without them, they're lost. It's pretty pathetic, actually.

I'd say something else, but I just remembered that SPLAIN got sick of hearing my analogies and comparisons. :D

Well I'm certainly not sick of your analogies and comparisons! So please go ahead and say what you were going to say. :)


I don't know if I said this before, but I didn't have a problem with Jane's infamous thread...or the term used. Sorry, but that's a common term.

Thank you, Dawsongirl. And frankly, that term probably describes most people these days at certain times in their life, myself included. But where I think Lucy crossed a line was getting involved with a married man, and then suddenly getting intimately involved with Desi when she was engaged to be married to someone else. I don't mean to be judgmental about that because everyone makes mistakes, but I would certainly hope I'd never cross that particular line. I have been propositioned by people in the past who (it turned out) were involved with someone else, but the second I learned they were in a relationship, I told them to beat it and nothing ever happened.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Well, you didn't make your grand entrance calling me a bitch, so I think you'll be okay.

Was this about a year or so ago? I think I remember that jerk.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I agree, but those people you're talking about were of the opinion that, unless you have only adulation and praise for Lucille Ball, worship her, and are willing to put blinders on and close your mind to anything negative about her, you should not be allowed to have an opinion.

I was one of the people involved in the arguement, and i am not of the opinion that you should worship her, i simply wanted to voice my opinion.:)

Hey, i didn't keep bringing it up to start it all over again, i just wanted to finally state my opinion and straighten certain things out. DawsongirlDiva, i wasn't kidding when i said i've been reading all your posts and respect your opinion, always have always will, but even i got upset when you said some ani-Lucy things because these are Lucy sites and if you'll recall i just reminded you of that, that was the closest you and i ever got into a fight, but we didn't because we respect each other enough that we let things go. Lucyfan 1983 is a very good friend of mine and again her opinion is GOLD to me. As for the things you just said Jane, here goes: You have to remember we are Lucy Fans, and none of us want her image to suffer, she worked her whole life to protect that image. What she did as a kid every other actress in Hollywood did also, so why pick on her for that, Mrs Reagan, former first lady did more than Lucy ever did, i just read an article with David Niven discussing her abilities in procuring for the studio, the thing is i'm human and i've made mistakes so i can't fault Lucy for doing the same things, she was human too, but unlike me she helped people all her life with money and time and she gave to charity her whole life, and unlike Mrs R, she didn't put a new set of dishes as her priority in life, and she didn't threaten to get free designer dresses and many other things too numerous to list, Lucy more importantly entertained the world for generations and made billions of people enjoy themselves and brightened up their lives, to me, that offsets everything, i joined these boards to find out why these stories portrayed her as a ***** and i got my answer, she worked in a male area and put on a mask to get respect, she tested people, she even used the term about herself realizing she did this, but that was a small price to pay for what the lady accomplished, to be continued

Ok, what i meant Dawsongirldiva is maybe people would take some comments from me more than they would from you as they know you're NOT a fanatic like myself. Bu then again, people who don't know me here might think i'm being a lousy fan too, i'm onlyonesubject and en bas on other boards. Anybody who knows me knows i LOVE Lucille Ball. I was shocked by Desi's book in 1976 when i read that she was fooling around when they talked about divorcing, she threatened him and he fought back with the name and address of the man written in her own handwriting. Did i think less of her, NO, he had done this to her a thoudans times so she fought back, i'm a Leo like her and would have done the same thing, the only reason they stayed together was the studio, their contracts with CBS, maybe the kids when it started to affect them. Then when i read she was hard to work with, again, i read all the accounts and deduced that she did what she had to do to survive. Yes, it was a gain a shock to hear she told Viv, when she asked what dress she should wear and she answered what difference does it make, you look like a cow in anything you wear. I remembered they were supposed to be like sisters, and she had had a stroke, so i took into account she lived to work and her specials weren't doing that well and she was really counting on this one to make it and revive her career, but there comes a time when you have to stop making excuses, to explain someone's behavior. But the point is i love her still, just the same because whatever she did, or said, she was married to a man who lived off of her, who mismanaged her career, this woman lived to work and she was over the hill in a town where you're over the hill at 35! Then when i also heard other things, again i was shocked, and again it didn't change how i felt about her. The worse thing about us fans is that we can criticize her all we want but we attack anybody else who does, well that's over for me, who am i to judge. When Lucie would make these horrible comments about her mom, i hated her, not anymore, she's being honest just like her mom, how can you fault her for that. Last point is i dun't care what else i find out, what else i hear, NOTHING will ever change my feelings about Lucy warts and all, she was the greatest woman who ever lived in as far as the enjoyment she has brought me and the world!

Didn't mean to go on and on like that, rambling as usual, going in too many directions and not getting anything straight, too much caffeine today, will be fresh and alert again on Monday morn, have a nice weekend everybody. PS, aren't we all on these boards to pay hommage to her anyway, so who says we can't do it any way we think is right? If she had been a saint, she'd be boring, and even Princess Diana had a past, or a middle anyway!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
PS, aren't we all on these boards to pay hommage to her anyway, so who says we can't do it any way we think is right? If she had been a saint, she'd be boring, and even Princess Diana had a past, or a middle anyway!

As far as I'm concerned, you can say whatever you want as long as a fight doesn't break out. :D

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Hey, i didn't keep bringing it up to start it all over again, i just wanted to finally state my opinion and straighten certain things out. DawsongirlDiva, i wasn't kidding when i said i've been reading all your posts and respect your opinion, always have always will, but even i got upset when you said some ani-Lucy things because these are Lucy sites and if you'll recall i just reminded you of that, that was the closest you and i ever got into a fight, but we didn't because we respect each other enough that we let things go.

Here's my two cents worth. These are public message boards and anyone, obsessive fan or not, can pop on here and say something. So I can speak, you can speak, anyone can....as long as they don't attack another member. You've never done that, so I'm cool with you. I know we don't share the same degree of love for Lucy, but you're a nice person and a great conversationalist so...whatever goes, goes. If you wanna diss me for whatever, go ahead. Opinions are like a$$holes...everyone has one. :D

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Was this about a year or so ago? I think I remember that jerk.

Yeah.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I have definitely noticed that! It's so ridiculous, I have to really wonder about those people. I'd love have the opinion of a psychologist to understand why these people have such a need to look up to another human being wanting to believe that person was perfect in every way. This must be tied to some personal insecurity. They have to have this perfect image of Lucille Ball and if anyone dares to disturb that image they go nuts. It's kind of like fundamentalist Christians are when certain issues like evolution or homosexuality or women's rights threaten their beliefs. They totally define themselves by those beliefs and without them, they're lost. It's pretty pathetic, actually.


Well I'm certainly not sick of your analogies and comparisons! So please go ahead and say what you were going to say. :)


:lol:

Okay, well here's what I think I was gonna say. Bear yourself SPLAIN. ;)

The closest thing I have to an obsession with a human being is Richard Dawson. I suppose it could be like Lucy is with those folks. Now, the man's done some things that weren't the greatest, but frankly I don't care. I still like him and he's still my idol. Point is, I acknowledge it and okay, so I've fought with people who go too far with the "He was an egotist" crap, but big deal. The man wasn't an angel. I know that. Hell, I'm egotistical too. My mom'll even tell you that. And I'm far from perfect.

That was my comparison. SPLAIN got sick of me talking about Richard. :D

But what you say about insecurity is interesting. I've gotten to the point in my life where I have to realize my faults and either fix them or deal with them. I know I'm far from perfect and I'm fine with it. So, perhaps, because I can see the faults in myself, I can see them in others. And since I'm okay with myself, I'm okay with everyone else.

Yeah, so I went on and on, but I hope that made some sense.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JaneTVFan
[B]I have definitely noticed that! It's so ridiculous, I have to really wonder about those people. I'd love have the opinion of a psychologist to understand why these people have such a need to look up to another human being wanting to believe that person was perfect in every way. This must be tied to some personal insecurity. They have to have this perfect image of Lucille Ball and if anyone dares to disturb that image they go nuts. It's kind of like fundamentalist Christians are when certain issues like evolution or homosexuality or women's rights threaten their beliefs. They totally define themselves by those beliefs and without them, they're lost. It's pretty pathetic, actually

I agree with you no one on this earth is perfect and needs to be worshipped. However please be nice to fundamentalist Christians, there may be some on here like......me. No, evolution and homosexuality doesn't threaten my beliefs. I just go out and say evolution is a big load of crap and homosexuality is immoral. As far as I'm concerned my beliefs of God and Jesus are absolute truth. Not trying to start a fight here just had to say this to clear up my opinion. Hey, we're all Lucy fans so we've all got to be good people. Plus, your from N.C. too.

Originally posted by oldshows
No, evolution and homosexuality doesn't threaten my beliefs. I just go out and say evolution is a big load of crap and homosexuality is immoral.

And I go out and say that creationism is a big load of crap. There is no scientific support for it whatsoever. And if homosexuality is immoral, then God is immoral too because he created homosexuals (no, being homosexual is not a choice). :)

Originally posted by dawsongirl
:lol:

Okay, well here's what I think I was gonna say. Bear yourself SPLAIN. ;)

The closest thing I have to an obsession with a human being is Richard Dawson. I suppose it could be like Lucy is with those folks. Now, the man's done some things that weren't the greatest, but frankly I don't care. I still like him and he's still my idol. Point is, I acknowledge it and okay, so I've fought with people who go too far with the "He was an egotist" crap, but big deal. The man wasn't an angel. I know that. Hell, I'm egotistical too. My mom'll even tell you that. And I'm far from perfect.

That was my comparison. SPLAIN got sick of me talking about Richard. :D

But what you say about insecurity is interesting. I've gotten to the point in my life where I have to realize my faults and either fix them or deal with them. I know I'm far from perfect and I'm fine with it. So, perhaps, because I can see the faults in myself, I can see them in others. And since I'm okay with myself, I'm okay with everyone else.

Yeah, so I went on and on, but I hope that made some sense.

Thanks for splainin'. But you don't come across to me at all as egotistical. I think you're cool.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
And I go out and say that creationism is a big load of crap. There is no scientific support for it whatsoever. And if homosexuality is immoral, then God is immoral too because he created homosexuals (no, being homosexual is not a choice). :)


Saying God is immoral too is a little strong don't you think?!?! As far as scientific evidence, creation is better than saying there was once nothing, nothing blew up, the explosion was caused by nothing, everything then miraculously formed, life just happen to pop up on Earth and create a perfect working natural system. That science has no common sense!! Also, you know when you see Biblical prophosies happening it can of makes you think. For example if you read Ezekiel, Chapter 37 you'll know what I mean. It says that God will regather the Jews from the corners of the earth and regather them in Israel. Guess what, it happened just like the Bible said. That's just one of many examples.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Thanks for splainin'. But you don't come across to me at all as egotistical. I think you're cool.

Thanks! :)

I suppose it's mostly when I'm competing with someone. That doesn't work in cyberspace so much.

Originally posted by oldshows
Saying God is immoral too is a little strong don't you think?!?! As far as scientific evidence, creation is better than saying there was once nothing, nothing blew up, the explosion was caused by nothing, everything then miraculously formed, life just happen to pop up on Earth and create a perfect working natural system. That science has no common sense!! Also, you know when you see Biblical prophosies happening it can of makes you think. For example if you read Ezekiel, Chapter 37 you'll know what I mean. It says that God will regather the Jews from the corners of the earth and regather them in Israel. Guess what, it happened just like the Bible said. That's just one of many examples.

You are the one who says homosexuality is immoral. That's my only basis for saying God is immoral. He created homosexuals. They didn't ask to be homosexuals; he made them that way. If he created them as immoral beings, then God is immoral. Of course, I don't believe homosexuals or homosexuality is immoral. There's nothing immoral about people being honest with themselves and true to who they really are and loving people they are capable of fully expressing love with. As for your comments on creation, I don't know what scientific journal you've read that said in the beginning there was nothing and nothing blew up, etc. I've NEVER heard that. It's actually the Bible that indicates everything started with nothingness. As for science, there are different and diverse theories about the creation of the universe. According to some, there was a huge mass (as opposed to nothing) that exploded and spawned galaxies. What actually happened is a huge question that will continue to be probed for ages to come. As for the biblical explanation, Genesis says the EARTH was created first! There was no sun, there were no stars, just the earth sitting alone in darkness! Of course, we all know now that the earth is one of countless planets throughout the universe. And the earth, like all those other planets, orbits a star. According to the Bible, the earth existed before the sun. So what then did God do, create the sun then suddenly start spinning the earth around it? THAT makes no sense!

Also according to the Bible, the sun existed before the other stars. Obviously, the people who wrote the Bible didn't realize the sun IS a star and a younger star than many of the others in the universe. The Bible also says God created the plants on the earth before creating the stars in the sky and the moon, and indicates the stars and the moon were created at the same time. So just recapping, first came the earth, then the sun, then plants, then the moon and stars. That chronology makes NO sense.

God is all-powerful which means He can do ANYTHING!!! Its too bad some people don't know that. Well, why did God do this, it doesn't make any chronological sense. That's a weak response. It doesn't have to make chronological sense since He's all-powerful and can do anything. Secondly, God made all people perfect. Unfortunately Satan, yes he does exist, has deceived people into sin. That's why there are good people like Mother Teresa and evil people like Osama Bin Laden and Hitler. That's also why there a homosexuals. When was the last time you saw to homosexual dogs or cats. There aren't any, only people, the only creation of God with souls and sin commit homosexual acts. As far as your scientific theories it doesn't matter if there was a big bunch of mass or one atom that blew up. It's all just a bunch of random acts that just happened to happen. And then once all these things just happened to happen, life just happened to form on earth and humans just happened to come into exist. Which means your life just happened to happen. As you can see, these "just happened to happen" theories are ridiculous (well I don't know if you can see that our not, the Devil will blind people to lead them away from God). Like the Bible says, “People’s knowledge is foolisness to God” Finally, you never did try to dispute my Biblical prophesies claim such as the regathering of the Jews and recreation of Israel like the Bible said. I didn’t expect you too either since you can’t. Finally, we WILL know who is right. One of us is right. Judgment day is a day that I really believe going to happen as the Bible says. And the way all the Biblical prophesies are coming true is may happen really soon. I feel really confident about that great day if it does happen. If it does happen, how confident are you especially since you just called the Judge “immoral”?

Alright folks...enough religion talk.

Let's just move on.

Thank you.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Alright folks...enough religion talk.

Let's just move on.

Thank you.

Sorry, Dawsongirl, but this person is epitomizing exactly what I said fundamentalist Christians do when someone makes a statement that challenges and threatens their beliefs, they go nuts. They're lost without those beliefs because they want something spoonfeeds answers to them so they don't have ponder difficult questions about life on their own. Their understanding of everything in life is founded on one single thing: the Bible. That's where they get ALL their answers. They need to believe, therefore, that the Bible is completely accurate. So if anything challenges its reliability, they go bonkers, just like this "oldshows" person is doing. I've seen this happen sooo many times. And they don't care who they might hurt or offend if it means standing up for that book that's full of contradictions and inaccuracies. And now this person is making insulting remarks about gays. And I suspect there may be gay people on this board.

Originally posted by oldshows
God is all-powerful which means He can do ANYTHING!!!

That is such a big cop-out, and I hear it all the time from fundamentalist Christians who don't want to bother with thinking rationally. If something in the Bible seems far-fetched or illogical, the response is always "God can do anything!" You challenge the theory of evolution and reject it because you say it doesn't make sense. I point out that creationism makes less sense, so you respond God can do anything. God doesn't have to make sense. Puleez! The next thing you'll come up with (because I've heard it a thousand times before) is "that's a question I can't answer now because that's not something God wants us to know in this life." Pure cop-outs. Deal with the issues. If the Bible can't answer your question, then try thinking.


Originally posted by oldshows
Its too bad some people don't know that. Well, why did God do this, it doesn't make any chronological sense. That's a weak response. It doesn't have to make chronological sense since He's all-powerful and can do anything.

Yeah, I see, science must make complete sense or be understandable to YOU, or you reject it. But God, on the other hand, doesn't need to make sense. :lol:

Originally posted by oldshows
Secondly, God made all people perfect. Unfortunately Satan, yes he does exist, has deceived people into sin. That's why there are good people like Mother Teresa and evil people like Osama Bin Laden and Hitler. That's also why there a homosexuals.

This is about THE most insulting thing I've ever seen. You're comparing homosexuals to Osama bin Laden and Hitler? That's one of the most arrogant, evil statements I've ever seen! You know what? I had a dear friend in high school who was gay. He (unfortunately) got involved with fundamentalist Christians like you. Because of their venomous hate, he was driven into severe depression and committed suicide. Yes, he's dead because of people like you, people who constantly send out the message that gay people are bad, sub-human, inferior. You folks tell them they can't serve in the military, they can't teach school, they can't marry people they love, they can't have kids or adopt kids, they can't get insurance coverage for their partners. They can't, they can't they can't. How would you like it if some huge part of society was constantly trying to put up obstacles in your life to prevent you from doing things that most people take for granted as a basic human right?

Originally posted by oldshows
When was the last time you saw to homosexual dogs or cats. There aren't any, only people, the only creation of God with souls and sin commit homosexual acts.

You have GOT to be kidding! Have you been living under a rock or what? It is well-known, well documented, long documented FACT that homosexuality exists in every animal species. And YES I have seen homosexual dogs! I had a homosexual (lesbian) dog. I saw that dog trying to get it on with other female dogs, but NEVER with a male dog. If sexuality is such a black and white thing, explain this: what does God intend for hermaphrodites to do? Do you know what a hermaphrodite is? This is a person born with both male and female genitalia. This is a relatively common occurance, happening in about one in a thousand births. Usually, upon birth, the doctor makes the decision about what sex the hermaphrodite is going bo be and removes one of the sex organs. Often, that individual grows up with only the sexual organs of the gender they are attracted to. Does that make them a homosexual? Sometimes, none of the sex organs are removed and the hermaphrodite grows up with both male and female sex organs. If they have both sex organs, how do they know whether they're commiting a sexual act? Why did God give them two sets of sex organs? How can sexuality be so black and white (like your people pretend) if there exist people like this that definitely fall into a gray area.


Originally posted by oldshows
As you can see, these "just happened to happen" theories are ridiculous (well I don't know if you can see that our not, the Devil will blind people to lead them away from God). Like the Bible says, “People’s knowledge is foolisness to God”

No, I don't see. And as far as I'm concerned, your belief in the Devil and the bogeyman and whatever other nonsense tell me you're living in a fantasy world, completely blind to reality. Tell me how these "just happened to happen" theories, as you call them, are any more "ridiculous" than your creationism beliefs? How did God happen? Where did God come from? Did he just happen to happen? According to science, the creation of the universe did just happen to happen, but there were numerous events that happened over trillions and trillions of years. Do you have any concept of that amount of time? Do you have any concept of how massive the universe is? Given that length of time and given the incredible size of the universe, it's not really surprising that somewhere in the humongous universe over an incredibly long period of time when about anything can happen, life resulted.


Originally posted by oldshows
Finally, you never did try to dispute my Biblical prophesies claim such as the regathering of the Jews and recreation of Israel like the Bible said. I didn’t expect you too either since you can’t.

I didn't try to dispute your "prophesies" because I didn't see the point. According to your prophesies, the jews would be gathered from all corners of the world. Well guess what? Jews are STILL spread out all over the world. So how has that prophesy been fulfilled? Or are you suggesting it is a fulfillment of prophesy that Israel is now a nation? How surprising is that? The jewish people were endeavoring to gain status as a nation (as the Palestinians are now and used to be) for the eons. Big deal, they finally accomplished what they were always trying very hard to accomplish. The Bible also says Jesus will return a generation after Israel becomes a nation. Well Israel became a nation in 1948, so where's Jesus?

Originally posted by oldshows
Finally, we WILL know who is right. One of us is right. Judgment day is a day that I really believe going to happen as the Bible says.

Well bully for you. Jewish people have a different belief about that, as do muslims, hindus, buddhists, shintos, and every other world religion. But I guess they're all wrong and only you and fundamentalist Christians are right, huh?


Originally posted by oldshows
And the way all the Biblical prophesies are coming true is may happen really soon. I feel really confident about that great day if it does happen. If it does happen, how confident are you especially since you just called the Judge “immoral”?

Ever since Jesus was crucified, Christians have been claiming prophesies are coming true and Jesus will be back soon. These biblical prophesies are so vague, they can apply to what's going on at any time. There have always been "wars and rumors of wars" and great powers in the east and west. It's like Nostradamus, there are all these prophesies that are so vaguely written, they can be interpreted any number of ways to point to what's going on at virtually any point in time.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Sometimes, none of the sex organs are removed and the hermaphrodite grows up with both male and female sex organs. If they have both sex organs, how do they know whether they're commiting a sexual act?

That question was meant to be, How do they know they're commiting a HOMOsexual act? In other words, how can they know which sex organs they're supposed to use if God gave them two sets?

Dawsongirl, could you just please close this thread? Its not only off topic, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is being offended by it. thanks. :)

Originally posted by lucyfan1983
Dawsongirl, could you just please close this thread? Its not only off topic, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is being offended by it. thanks. :)

Putting this thread on topic, Lucille Ball was agnostic (read Jim Brochu's book where he discusses with her her thoughts on the afterlife), so she surely didn't buy creationism. Also, many of her closest friends and confidantes (including Brochu and Lee Tannen, who wrote I Loved Lucy) were gay and she loved them and didn't consider them immoral.

Please excuse this lowly French Canadian, but what does Agnostic mean, as i thought Lucy believed in God, but not in an afterlife. And i DON"T want to bring this back to the religion topic, if i wanted to discuss religion i would go on the Jerry Falwell site.

Ok, i had the weekend to think about everything and i want to set some things straight. I posted in a rush onFriday, but Friday night i took home that thread that started this conversation and read it again and it put some things in perspective. Why did i wait so long to come on this site, this is the site where people can say anything without fear of being thrown off which is great in the sense that you don't always live in fear of getting booted off, the other sites makes you feel like you're a contestant on Bog Brother. I got mad again when i read the title, i guess that was the ONLY thing i objected to, to use that term SLUT, in this day abd age is wrong to me, and more so applied to Lucy. I went and thanked Lucyfan 1983 and the other two people involved for letting her have it, and now Lucyfan 83 must be wondering what the heck is wrong with me, but i'll explain. I had time to think and i realize that talking about these things is much better than keeping them hidden, and i for one, want the whole true Lucy story, not the sanitized version put out by the insiders. Like i said before, nothing will change my feelings towards Lucy, sorta like Dawsongirl said about Richard, a trrue fan will tolerate anything. Besides, and here's the key, my life philosephy is this: If Burt Reynolds and Loni Anderson are married and fool around, he's a macho guy to be admired and she's a SLUT, that's very wrong, especially nowadays when we know that every celebrity has skeletons in their closet. My idea is that it's just as bad for Burt as it is for Loni, and our male dominated world should not dictate how we view these actions. Lucy did what every other celebrity did, and her husband brought these actions upon himself with his behavior. BUT, i don't excuse everything Lucy did. A quick romp in the hay with another consenting adult is ok with me, i am more bothered by her ruthlessness at times towards co workers, but like Lucie Arnaz said her parents did not live at a time when therapy could have solved many of their problems, and finally, i realize that i cannot throw stones as Lucy was human like all of us and she behaved the way we all do. How would we feel if our actions were put in books or articles for the world to read.

So i went from wanting to tell Jane off to being very happy to share a board with her and know here things are said and opinions are shared and there's nothing wrong with disagreing with people as long as what you say makes sense. Thanks Dawsongirldiva, you have turned out to be exactly what i thought you were, someone like me who accepts people for who they are, and who doesn't want to be bored with crap about who got the latest Lucy hat, but rather wanting to find out more things about my favorite entertainer and human being. And Jane, i enjoy reading you as much as i enjoy reading Lucyfan83, you are both very knowledgable and entertaining when discussing Lucy. How did that religion thing get into the conversation anyway, a friend of these boards and a big Lucy Fan herself once told me to stay away from politics and religion and she was right, but discussing them a little now and then can't hurt, as long as nobody becomes fanatical, i enjoy variety in my posts. The only fight i've had so far in 3000 posts since March has been about Ronnie Reagan, and i still say just because someone is sick doesn't excuse their previous behavior. So i like your defending gays Jane, i have had one experience where a friend of Lucy's contacted me and i have never had a friend die of Aids, so i was shocked by his appearance and when i heard these two lucy fans sing the praises of Reagan on my thread, i blew up like Mount Vesuvious, this man was responsable for the death of millions of people worldwide because of his homophobic views and his refusing funding for the disease back in the 80's, now hundreds of millions of people are infected and dying all over the world. And, the internet had this article last week where Reagan armed Iraq with the poisons and military might they now possess because they hoped these things would be used against Iran, and instead now we are being threatened by them, wasn't Reagan wonderful? Lucy should have chosen her friends more carefully. At the end she did, because like Jane said, Lucy was surrounded by these gay friends when her straight husband found golf more important than being with her, ok people discuss. . . .

I absolutely agree with oldshows. Yes, there is a prophesy that says Israel will become a nation again. But the prophesy before that says the Jews will be scattered threw out the world and will then be regathered. This was wrote by Ezekiel in about 500 B.C. Well, in 135 A.D. the Romans drove the Jews out. The poor Jews were then persectued throughout the world, many of them killed. But in 1948, sure enough they all came back together and become a country, a country that has soundly defeated all the countries that attacked it in 1948 despite having no organized army and being out numbered 15 to 1. How did they do that? Because God also said they would never again be defeated. Also about where's Jesus. A generation is 70 years according to the Bible. 1948 + 70=2018. But then again, you can't predict when Jesus will return because he did say, no one will know that time, only the father in heaven. Also other prophesies coming true, one-world govt. (The push has begun as now we have UN, WTO, a new international court, ect). Another one, mark of the beast. Now we have microchips that we can implant into people with all their personal info. I'm sure soon they're be able to have your financies on it!! As far as the rumors of wars one, there are still wars going on. Jesus said these things would have to come to pass first and they haven't. Also, the Bible says the great temple of Jerusalem would have to be rebuilt. It hasn't yet because the Muslims control that section of Jerusalem where it must be rebuilt. A word about that temple. Around 30 A.D, Jesus went and preached at the temple. He said during his sermon, that no stone would be left upon another that would not be thrown down. (Matt. 24) Flash forward to 70 A.D. The Romans burnt the city of Jerasalem. Well, some of the gold in the temple starting melting and running threw the cervices between the stones that made up the temple. To save the gold, the Roman soldiers had to tear the temple down STONE BY STONE so literally no stone was left upon another that wasn't thrown down. Of course being God he knew that was going to happen. Also the old testiment predicted his coming. It says he would be born in Bethelem, betrayed by a friend(he was Judas), crusified(he was), hated by his people(Jesus, a Jew was hated by the Jews), and would raise from the dead. Let me guess, you think all these things just "happened" to match Jesus. Read Psalms and Isiash, it has these predicts on the Messiah and more that "just happened" all to match Jesus. I'll pray for you tonight and hope you see the light before its too late.

Oh, one more thing Jane, you said you wanted to know how God got here. Well, where did your all mighty piece of matter that just happened to get here come from? Oh yeah, a big hunk of matter was just here and it has created everything by just happening to blow up . I would much rather put my faith in a God than a hunk of matter. A big mighty hunk of matter:lol:

Originally posted by lucyfan1983
Dawsongirl, could you just please close this thread? Its not only off topic, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is being offended by it. thanks. :)

I'm sure your being offended by the big bad atheist because the truth has never hurt anybody except those poor blind souls who don't want to see but someday will.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Sorry, Dawsongirl, but this person is epitomizing exactly what I said fundamentalist Christians do when someone makes a statement that challenges and threatens their beliefs, they go nuts. They're lost without those beliefs because they want something spoonfeeds answers to them so they don't have ponder difficult questions about life on their own. Their understanding of everything in life is founded on one single thing: the Bible. That's where they get ALL their answers. They need to believe, therefore, that the Bible is completely accurate. So if anything challenges its reliability, they go bonkers, just like this "oldshows" person is doing. I've seen this happen sooo many times. And they don't care who they might hurt or offend if it means standing up for that book that's full of contradictions and inaccuracies. And now this person is making insulting remarks about gays. And I suspect there may be gay people on this board.

Challenge and threatens their belief. None of these scientific "theories" challenge and threaten my beliefs. I just say they're a big load of CRAP

Does this place EVER get boring, i think not! There is nothing wrong with a religious discussion, but a new thread dedicated to it might solve the problem, as i dun't see how any of this has anything to do with Lucy and whoever is offended could do what i would do in a case like this, simply not read the thread!

This whole thing got started when Jane said this:

"They have to have this perfect image of Lucille Ball and if anyone dares to disturb that image they go nuts. It's kind of like fundamentalist Christians are when certain issues like evolution or homosexuality or women's rights threaten their beliefs. They totally define themselves by those beliefs and without them, they're lost. It's pretty pathetic, actually"

Being a Christian I felt insulted and couldn't let her just insult me and all the good God-fearing people of the world.

Ugh...well I'm throughly annoyed now.

CLOSING.....