Andy Griffith really messed up with his initial decision to end TAGS after only 5 seasons. Particularly since he apparently did not mention to Don Knotts early enough that he had changed his mind and decided to keep going. If Griffith had been more forthcoming, Knotts may not have signed the movie contract with Universal and decided to stay with TAGS for at least another season or two. I realize the show would still have switched to color but if Knotts had stayed on, I know I would have liked the show better in the color years. Plus with the exit of Knotts, we lost Betty Lynn from the cast and I really liked her too. I really surprised because I read a story about Griffith's life and he is quoted as saying the 5 years he worked with Knotts on TAGS were the best working years of his life.

Many of us think there's a bigger story to the show continuing beyond the first five seasons. But we will never know unless some kind of personal memoirs are made public. Was it likely that Griffith had more money thrown at him? Probably. A piece of the behind the show in ownership and rights? Maybe. Did other stars and their salaries need to trimmed or eliminated all together? Possible.

Interesting info, Rusty. Well, if more money was thrown at Andy and to compensate other salaries had to be cut, then that is really a shame because while I still like the show after season 5, it wasn't nearly as good with Barney gone. He and Andy played off each other soooo darn well. It made the show.

With s number 4 show for season 5, one could bet there was a sweetening of the pot.

Same thing for season 8 with a number one show. CBS was probably happy to keep some form of the show, which they got with Mayberry RFD, with an additional 2 seasons of strong ratings.

Andy Griffith really messed up with his initial decision to end TAGS after only 5 seasons. Particularly since he apparently did not mention to Don Knotts early enough that he had changed his mind and decided to keep going. If Griffith had been more forthcoming, Knotts may not have signed the movie contract with Universal and decided to stay with TAGS for at least another season or two. I realize the show would still have switched to color but if Knotts had stayed on, I know I would have liked the show better in the color years. Plus with the exit of Knotts, we lost Betty Lynn from the cast and I really liked her too. I really surprised because I read a story about Griffith's life and he is quoted as saying the 5 years he worked with Knotts on TAGS were the best working years of his life.

The 5 seasons was never a hard number, but it gives the star and the owners certain leverage. Based on the shows performance and the likelihood that it would continue to perform well the network wanted to stay in the The Andy Griffith Show business, and of course the owners knew the value of three additional years on the rerun market. The deal got done and it was not contingent on Don being part of the show. That limited what Don could be offered, a higher salary, sure, time off to do movies, that could have been arranged, but Don wanted more...

At the end of season 4 Jim Nabors a regular for just one season gets his own spinoff. With that, he for all practical purposes leapfrogged over Don in importance to the Griffith organization. Don was in a business sense painted into a corner, he had to get some demonstrative return for what he had put into The Andy Griffith Show. He wanted some ownership, and that couldn't be given to him. Again, the deal was done with or without Don and those ownership points were potentially worth millions, Andy was locked into his position and Don was intelligent enough to understand the business side of the situation. When Don starred in his own variety series he set up his own production company.

With respect to Betty Lynn, I think there is some evidence to suggest she might not have been part of the series going forward even if Don had stayed. I wrote a piece on this awhile back:

"Many of the Warren episodes were obviously written for Knotts and adapted for Jack. The episode Girl-Shy in which Warren becomes a sleepwalker and makes a play for Helen stands out in my mind. The concept would have been a homerun for Don, this material is right in his wheelhouse, but I don't think it would have worked if Thelma Lou was still a character in the series. This is episode 15 for season 6, episode 17 is the high school reunion episode which to some extent is a reworking of episode 82, Class Reunion. They could easily have inserted an offscreen breakup of Barney and Thelma Lou and play these two episodes as written, maybe using that as an explanation for the sleepwalking. The writers would also have been freed up to do stories about Barney's hunt for a new love interest. Jack Dobson was once asked why were there so many single people in the series, his response, it makes it easier for the writers to develop story angles".

Duster, so according to your post, part of the situation may be due to Don's own doing, if he was feeling jealous of Jim Nabors' success in getting his own show. Well, whatever the reasons, it's just a bad thing that seasons 6 - 8 did not include Don as a regular cast member.

I have often wondered if the angry/pouting (dramatic) Andy was Griffith's way to get the viewers turned off and get his show cancelled. I feel that Andy was kind of peeved that Don wasn't around and that some anger was misdirected at Warren.

You see, I think Andy at a minimum was bored at playing Andy Taylor. Sure, he's raking in the money, probably getting more revenue from the backend of the show. I think at the end of season 5, he was ready to move on. What offers were coming his way, we don't know.

We know that in the 1970s he was doing Ritz cracker commercials so he must have needed the dough to do banal advertisements.

I really don't think there was anything to Don's leaving other than what was stated. Don and Andy remained friends for the rest of their lives. Andy himself stated that he was getting bored on the show after Don left and CBS didn't want Andy to leave which is why he created Mayberry RFD. Don even guest starred on the New Andy Griffith Show a few years later.

I have often wondered if the angry/pouting (dramatic) Andy was Griffith's way to get the viewers turned off and get his show cancelled. I feel that Andy was kind of peeved that Don wasn't around and that some anger was misdirected at Warren.

You see, I think Andy at a minimum was bored at playing Andy Taylor. Sure, he's raking in the money, probably getting more revenue from the backend of the show. I think at the end of season 5, he was ready to move on. What offers were coming his way, we don't know.

We know that in the 1970s he was doing Ritz cracker commercials so he must have needed the dough to do banal advertisements.
I think Andy wanted to get in the movies too and it just didn't happen for him. Andy was typecast a lot more than Don was. Don ended up at Walt Disney make films with Tim Conway and then got a second hit on TC. Andy spent the 70's doing as you said Ritz crackers commercials. He would do the Lost Colony in NC and he did TV Movies and guest spots. But he didn't finally shed Andy Taylor until 1986 when he started in Matlock. Ironically it was the same year he played Andy again in return to Mayberry.

I think Andy wanted to get in the movies too and it just didn't happen for him. Andy was typecast a lot more than Don was. Don ended up at Walt Disney make films with Tim Conway and then got a second hit on TC. Andy spent the 70's doing as you said Ritz crackers commercials. He would do the Lost Colony in NC and he did TV Movies and guest spots. But he didn't finally shed Andy Taylor until 1986 when he started in Matlock. Ironically it was the same year he played Andy again in return to Mayberry.


Andy actually started his acting career making movies before TAGS. I really thought he should have received an Oscar nomination for his portrayal of the shady Lonesome Rhodes from "A Face In The Crowd:.

Andy actually started his acting career making movies before TAGS. I really thought he should have received an Oscar nomination for his portrayal of the shady Lonesome Rhodes from "A Face In The Crowd:.
Oh I know he did before TAGS. No Time for Sergeants is one of my favorites.

I really don't think there was anything to Don's leaving other than what was stated. Don and Andy remained friends for the rest of their lives. Andy himself stated that he was getting bored on the show after Don left and CBS didn't want Andy to leave which is why he created Mayberry RFD. Don even guest starred on the New Andy Griffith Show a few years later.

Of course there was more. Don signed to do a series of movies only two of which were released during the run of The Andy Griffith Show. There were TV stars who did movies (Dean Martin, Dick Van Dyke, Bill Bixby, Ray Walston, Fred MacMurray and yes Don Knotts, just to name a few) while their series were on the air, and let's face it Don wasn't exactly making Dr. Zhivago! Don and Andy were friends but they also had a business relationship. I think Andy understood Don's position and Don understood Andy's. It's true it doesn't always work that way but these two found a way to make it work.

With respect to the show, Andy reached a point where he did not want to his character to generate the comedy that was what Don was there for. Watch the last two seasons Don was a regular (seasons 4 and 5), the interaction between the two is much different and his character, while not the Angry Andy character of season 6, is more serious, mature, certainly not fun loving in ways he was in prior seasons. When the Warren character failed to get over (and that's a whole different conversation) the show went from a comedy series to slice of life stories.

Duster, so according to your post, part of the situation may be due to Don's own doing, if he was feeling jealous of Jim Nabors' success in getting his own show. Well, whatever the reasons, it's just a bad thing that seasons 6 - 8 did not include Don as a regular cast member.

I wouldn't use the word jealous, but Jim getting his own show set the price point. Being the star of your own series is a big deal to these people. Don's contract was up and he rightfully wanted to be compensated for what he brought to the table. An actor as an independent contractor has to figure out his worth and has to make a decision about what action he will take if the offer doesn't match his valuation.

Let's say there had never been a Gomer Pyle USMC and Jim remained on the series, I think there is more than a 50% chance Don would have remained with the series. He probably would have done fewer episodes (maybe 16 a season) but at least Barney would have been there entertaining us.

I have often wondered if the angry/pouting (dramatic) Andy was Griffith's way to get the viewers turned off and get his show cancelled. I feel that Andy was kind of peeved that Don wasn't around and that some anger was misdirected at Warren.

You see, I think Andy at a minimum was bored at playing Andy Taylor. Sure, he's raking in the money, probably getting more revenue from the backend of the show. I think at the end of season 5, he was ready to move on. What offers were coming his way, we don't know.

We know that in the 1970s he was doing Ritz cracker commercials so he must have needed the dough to do banal advertisements.

The Andy Taylor character evolved over the course of the series run, by the time we got to season 5 the character had become much more serious, frankly speaking there wasn't a lot of fun coming from his characterization. Don was doing all the heavy lifting with respect to the comedy part of the show. Season 6 poor Jack Burns walked into a hornet's nest. He was working with a straight man who was doing nothing to help get you over. It looked like most of the scripts were Don scripts which made matters even worse, by this point Don had evolved with the series and understood how to play the material in this very unique set of circumstances. You have to understand how odd it must have been to work on a comedy series where the star had no desire to be funny. We all know how the Jack Burns/Warren situation ended, the show then pivoted from a comedy series to slice of life stories.

The amazing thing about all this is it worked magnificently well. The show remained a monster hit for the remainder of its run.

What I read (I believe it was at a Sheldon Leonard tribute site), was that everybody affiliated with the show was comfortable calling it quits after 5 years. So nobody had any reason to anticipate anything else.

But, the sponsors were not ready to let go, so they appealed for more years, used money to get their way, and Leonard ended up giving Griffith a share of the show, as an inducement.

When they approached Knotts, he wanted a share of the show too, and Leonard told him he'd get a nice raise, but no share. Leonard was concerned that if Knotts got a share too, then other cast members would demand same as well.

Wish I still had the link to that story, but sadly I do not.

What I read (I believe it was at a Sheldon Leonard tribute site), was that everybody affiliated with the show was comfortable calling it quits after 5 years. So nobody had any reason to anticipate anything else.

But, the sponsors were not ready to let go, so they appealed for more years, used money to get their way, and Leonard ended up giving Griffith a share of the show, as an inducement.

When they approached Knotts, he wanted a share of the show too, and Leonard told him he'd get a nice raise, but no share. Leonard was concerned that if Knotts got a share too, then other cast members would demand same as well.

Wish I still had the link to that story, but sadly I do not.


A lot of things to unpack, so let me have at it:

"Leonard ended up giving Griffith a share of the show, as an inducement".

Andy had a share of the show from day one, the real inducement was the value of the additional years to the syndication package. The show was already in reruns on CBS in the mornings and doing very well so the future value of those additional seasons was clear.

"When they approached Knotts, he wanted a share of the show too, and Leonard told him he'd get a nice raise, but no share".

Don wanted a share of the show, both he and Andy admitted this in
interviews.

"Leonard was concerned that if Knotts got a share too, then other cast members would demand same as well".

Nonsense. The deal was already made, he and Andy had their money with or without Don so they would have been essentially giving money away, and business (and this is a business) doesn't work like that.

"other cast members would demand same as well".

What other cast members? There were only two, Bavier and Howard. Bavier was 63 years of age and from everything we have read a bit of a pain in the neck, she wasn't going anywhere and if she did, could have been replaced. Howard obviously had very solid management and his father knew the score, he was in no position to demand such a thing. He was an actor on the series but his character was not the focus.

We love these characters and we love this show but that of course is the perspective of the audience, in the end to the people putting it together and the performers it is ultimately a business and that unfortunately can lead to outcomes that are not in the best interests of the audience.

Nonsense. The deal was already made, he and Andy had their money with or without Don so they would have been essentially giving money away, and business (and this is a business) doesn't work like that.

.

Hey, I'm just sharing what I read. Acknowledged that I am at a bit of a disadvantage, not being able to produce a link, but it was right from the horse's mouth.

And yes, although not specific, I suspect the "others" cited would have been Bavier and Howard,...and perhaps Lindsey too.

After I thought about it a while, there might have been a "fair warning" aspect to Leonard not caving to Knotts' demands. What better way to tell Bavier, Howard, and anybody else with ambition, to not get greedy? (if they let Knotts go, then nobody is sacred) Just my speculation.

Just to throw one factor in that may or may not have had any influence on the situation: Leonard and Danny Thomas also sat atop The Dick van Dyke Show, which was running a year behind Andy Griffith with (it seems to me) Reiner pretty settled on stopping after Season 5. So any questions about one show may have influenced the other, including what supporting players might demand to continue, if renewal became a possibility.

Don Knotts deserved an ownership share with all he brought to the show. With The Andy Griffith Show being such a success, it was just petty greed that the main owner wouldn't give him a 5% stake, they would still be very rich. And none of the other supporting characters needed rewarded like that, Don was the only one winning Emmys. The color era might have somehow done better first-run, but syndication a lot of places later would only air the black and white era because the color era got lousy feedback. Which says something when this show is the opposite of other 60s shows where the black and white seasons are sometimes omitted from the syndicated package.

Don Knotts deserved an ownership share with all he brought to the show. With The Andy Griffith Show being such a success, it was just petty greed that the main owner wouldn't give him a 5% stake, they would still be very rich. And none of the other supporting characters needed rewarded like that, Don was the only one winning Emmys. The color era might have somehow done better first-run, but syndication a lot of places later would only air the black and white era because the color era got lousy feedback. Which says something when this show is the opposite of other 60s shows where the black and white seasons are sometimes omitted from the syndicated package.

Good points too, IceCream. you're right, a lot of shows B&W seasons aren't or weren't shown in reruns for a long time but TAGS seems to buck that trend because while okay, the color episodes weren't nearly as good as the original first five seasons.

A question for Duster and others. So if everyone was aware of wrapping up the show after 5 years, then it must have been a big surprise that the show was going to continue. So why didn't the writers and production team do a better job preparing for a Barney Fife replacement (Warren). Did they just assume that Don would continue if asked?

As you mentioned, most of season 6 was written as if Don was still in the show. Eventually, I think Warren his his stride (no fault of Jack Burns) before leaving all together.

A question for Duster and others. So if everyone was aware of wrapping up the show after 5 years, then it must have been a big surprise that the show was going to continue. So why didn't the writers and production team do a better job preparing for a Barney Fife replacement (Warren). Did they just assume that Don would continue if asked?

As you mentioned, most of season 6 was written as if Don was still in the show. Eventually, I think Warren his his stride (no fault of Jack Burns) before leaving all together.

The working plan was for Jerry Van Dyke to take over the role. The final episode of season 5, "Banjo-Playing Deputy" introduces the character. Unfortunately (at least as far as the Griffith show was concerned), the pilot for My Mother the Car sold, so no Jerry Van Dyke. His style of comedy was more in line with Don Knotts, it would have been much easier for him to develop the nervous bumbling deputy routine than Jack Burns. Andy indicated in interviews that he saw Burns perform at a club and suggested him to the production team. I would love to know what routines Burns was performing that gave Andy the idea that Burns would fit the role. Avery Schreiber and Burns were a comedy team (interesting to note Schreiber was a regular on My Mother the Car), before that Burns and George Carlin were a team. I don't think there was a meeting of the minds with respect to what was going to happen once he got on set. From Burns perspective he thought he was showing up to play a part and it was to be played as written, the Griffith team thought he would merge the part with his style. It was a disaster, Andy took full responsibility when asked about it on Larry King. I do believe if he was given better scripts and the character properly supported by the lead actor (Andy) Burns could have pulled it off.

Don Knotts deserved an ownership share with all he brought to the show. With The Andy Griffith Show being such a success, it was just petty greed that the main owner wouldn't give him a 5% stake, they would still be very rich. And none of the other supporting characters needed rewarded like that, Don was the only one winning Emmys. The color era might have somehow done better first-run, but syndication a lot of places later would only air the black and white era because the color era got lousy feedback. Which says something when this show is the opposite of other 60s shows where the black and white seasons are sometimes omitted from the syndicated package.

Don's contributions to the show were extraordinary there is no doubt that, but that's not how that business works. The ownership points were worth millions and they weren't willing to part with them. You have to think down deep inside Don must have been very bitter, but he kept it to himself recognizing it was the way the game was played.

Hey, I'm just sharing what I read. Acknowledged that I am at a bit of a disadvantage, not being able to produce a link, but it was right from the horse's mouth.

And yes, although not specific, I suspect the "others" cited would have been Bavier and Howard,...and perhaps Lindsey too.

After I thought about it a while, there might have been a "fair warning" aspect to Leonard not caving to Knotts' demands. What better way to tell Bavier, Howard, and anybody else with ambition, to not get greedy? (if they let Knotts go, then nobody is sacred) Just my speculation.

Just to clarify, I meant the information was nonsense, I know you were just citing what you read on a website.

With respect to George Lindsey, he had just started on the show as a regular, if he had even suggested such a thing he would have been laughed out of the room.

Howard's career has been brilliantly managed from the beginning, there's no chance his people would have approached the business team with that request.

The working plan was for Jerry Van Dyke to take over the role. The final episode of season 5, "Banjo-Playing Deputy" introduces the character. Unfortunately (at least as far as the Griffith show was concerned), the pilot for My Mother the Car sold, so no Jerry Van Dyke. His style of comedy was more in line with Don Knotts, it would have been much easier for him to develop the nervous bumbling deputy routine than Jack Burns. Andy indicated in interviews that he saw Burns perform at a club and suggested him to the production team. I would love to know what routines Burns was performing that gave Andy the idea that Burns would fit the role. Avery Schreiber and Burns were a comedy team (interesting to note Schreiber was a regular on My Mother the Car), before that Burns and George Carlin were a team. I don't think there was a meeting of the minds with respect to what was going to happen once he got on set. From Burns perspective he thought he was showing up to play a part and it was to be played as written, the Griffith team thought he would merge the part with his style. It was a disaster, Andy took full responsibility when asked about it on Larry King. I do believe if he was given better scripts and the character properly supported by the lead actor (Andy) Burns could have pulled it off.

Too bad, I think Jerry Van Dyke would have been a blast as a regular in Mayberry.

Too bad, I think Jerry Van Dyke would have been a blast as a regular in Mayberry.
Would JVD have made a good Gilligan?

Would JVD have made a good Gilligan?

He probably would have! But we'll never know.

Class of 1945 or 1948?

The black and white episode I watched tonight had the Mayberry Union High School reunion, Class of 1945.

The color episode I saw last week was the class reunion, Class of 1948.

Very annoying continuity glitch.

🙂

Class of 1945 or 1948?

The black and white episode I watched tonight had the Mayberry Union High School reunion, Class of 1945.

The color episode I saw last week was the class reunion, Class of 1948.

Very annoying continuity glitch.

🙂

The show had a script continuity credit. My thought is that position would have responsibility for catching an error like that.

Class of 1945 or 1948?

The black and white episode I watched tonight had the Mayberry Union High School reunion, Class of 1945.

The color episode I saw last week was the class reunion, Class of 1948.

Very annoying continuity glitch.

🙂


The color episodes are almost an entirely different show lol

The black and white episode I watched tonight had the Mayberry Union High School reunion, Class of 1945.

The color episode I saw last week was the class reunion, Class of 1948.



The actors may not have wanted to admit that they were three years older than the first time around.

The actors may not have wanted to admit that they were three years older than the first time around.

I suppose so, now that they were all brightly colored now, and all.

🙂

Don Knotts deserved an ownership share with all he brought to the show. With The Andy Griffith Show being such a success, it was just petty greed that the main owner wouldn't give him a 5% stake, they would still be very rich. And none of the other supporting characters needed rewarded like that, Don was the only one winning Emmys. The color era might have somehow done better first-run, but syndication a lot of places later would only air the black and white era because the color era got lousy feedback. Which says something when this show is the opposite of other 60s shows where the black and white seasons are sometimes omitted from the syndicated package.

Don Knotts said that the cast of ''The Andy Griffith Show'' was ''terrified'' when the series hit number one in the ratings (https://www.metv.com/stories/don-knotts-said-that-they-cast-of-the-andy-griffith-show-was-terrified-when-the-series-hit-number-one-in-the-ratings)

Why the triumph had Knotts and the cast shaking in their boots.