Last weekend was the opening week of the XFL. I saw edited versions of all the games on Youtube (since I live abroad) and was impressed mostly by the good football played and the fan support. It seems that people have been overwhelmingly positive about the new product.

Since Philadelphia does not have team, the DC Defenders seem to have the animal fanbase. They got drunk, made a "beer snake" of over a hundred plastic cups (which was taken by security but might be allowed now since the snake has become famous) and the rowdies threw lemons on the field. I dont support that in many ways but it shows passion of the fans.

I like the point(s) after touchdown rule. PAT is not allowed, but the team has the choice to go for it for one point, two points or three points from various distances from the endzone. If I am not mistaken, instead of an onside kick, a team gets the option of one down for fifteen yards at their own 20. The XFL allows only one foot in like college unlike the NFL which requires both feet.

The only detractors I have heard was that there are so few "elite" Quarterbacks to go around. I think a good thing about this league is that there are players who just didnt make the NFL cut or just proving themselves to make it there so they play their hearts out here.

I think the XFL has their act together and this is now a good product but we will see. I made a post a couple of months ago about is Spring Football a viable product because so many teams have failed. This year there are two leagues, the XFL and the USFL. The USFL wasnt bad, but they played all the teams in one stadium in Birmingham and no one came to the game unless it was Birmingham. This year there will be three stadiums hosting games including my hometown Memphis "Go Showboats!" Would be nice if the two leagues just merge, dunno if people are going to watch two eight team leagues. But who knows?

My XFL team is the DC Defenders! Beer Snake!

I was surprised at how little coverage the opening weekend received, Here is a partial write-up from SporMediaWatch.com:

"The XFL is back. The TV audience is not.

The four XFL games televised by ABC/ESPN over this past weekend had a drop in viewership of at least 50 percent from the same windows in 2020, when the XFL returned for a season that ultimately was cut short due to the pandemic.

The first game between Vegas and Arlington on ABC had 1.54 million viewers. That reflects a 54-percent drop over the 3.3 million who tuned in for the first game on ABC in February 2020. The actual reduction was likely even larger, given that out-of-home viewership was not included in the 2020 numbers.

The numbers also lagged behind the USFL debut in 2022 (3.07 million) and the AAF in 2019 (3.25 million). Those games were played in primetime and not in the afternoon, however.

The other ABC game, St. Louis at San Antonio, averaged 1.57 million viewers, a 54-percent drop from the same window in 2020. The night games on ESPN and FX drew 1.14 million on Saturday and 918,000 on Sunday.

The XFL didn’t have any viewership below a million until the fifth week of its 2020 season".


I think the various rule changes are too anarchic, maybe introducing a three point possibility after a touchdown but just play the game by familiar rules for the first season. These pop-up leagues will be judged the way all TV programming is judged ratings. If the numbers aren't there the plug will be pulled in very short order. I think this was a very bad start.

This is off the top of my head, but I wonder if the Canadian Football League could be approached and possibly be persuaded to operate in the spring. There could be a Canadian division and an American division with the Grey Cup final happening in late May. Having a built in fan base plus American skin in the game and the international rivalry component might bring in enough dollars to make it work.

I completely forgot about it. After months of the NFL, I think most fans need a break. I would only watch games if I had a rooting interest and was playing daily fantasy sports for it. Gambling on football is always going to be a big draw.

I think the major knock on the original XFL was the quality of play, especially the quarterbacks. I guess football is football to the most die-hard fans. I don't follow college football closely enough to know many of the players.

I liked and followed the original USFL from 1983 to 1985. They would have had a longer run if they had stuck to the spring. They could compete with the NFL for the top players.

I think one spring league might work, but two will not succeed. They should merge into one league in the best markets.

The problem with Canadian football is that it has different rules than the American game.

A 120 year field.

12 men to a side.

20 yard deep endzones.

3 downs.

Canadian football was already tried in America about 25 years ago. Except for Baltimore (who just lost the Colts a few years before, and is the only American team to win the CFL championship), the game was a dud, and lasted a season.

My city of Memphis had a team, called The Mad Dogs. Problem is that the stadium it was played in could not accomodate the larger field required. I never went to a game so couldnt say how they worked this, but no one else went either, their home opener had 11,000 fans in a 60,000 seat stadium and probably went down from there.

The problem with Canadian football is that it has different rules than the American game.

A 120 year field.

12 men to a side.

20 yard deep endzones.

3 downs.

Canadian football was already tried in America about 25 years ago. Except for Baltimore (who just lost the Colts a few years before, and is the only American team to win the CFL championship), the game was a dud, and lasted a season.

My city of Memphis had a team, called The Mad Dogs. Problem is that the stadium it was played in could not accomodate the larger field required. I never went to a game so couldnt say how they worked this, but no one else went either, their home opener had 11,000 fans in a 60,000 seat stadium and probably went down from there.


A couple of points, I added the Canadian Football League comments at the end of my post, it was an idea that hit me while I was typing my comments. After reading your post (I was aware of the attempt to expand into the U.S. market in the 90's), I went to the Wikipedia page for the Canadian Football League, and as it turns out some type of collaboration between the XFL 3.0 and the Canadian Football League was discussed in 2021. The discussions went on for several months before finally breaking off. The 3.0 experiment may meet the same end as the prior two iterations of the XFL so this may all be a moot point unless things start to turn around. Here is a report from Sports Media Watch on week 2 (the news is not good):


XFL sees big drop in Week 2, but on par with last year’s USFL


The XFL lost half of its Week 1 audience in Week 2, but still held up relatively well given the lack of games on broadcast television.

Week 2 of the XFL averaged 655,000 viewers on ESPN, ESPN2 and FX, down about 50% from Week 1 on ABC, ESPN and FX (1.3M) and down 68% from Week 2 of the prior XFL three years ago (2.05M). Keep in mind it was the first week of the XFL — including the two prior iterations — in which no games aired on broadcast television.

Not coincidentally, it was also the first week in XFL history in which no game crossed the million viewer mark. Viewership topped out at 781,000 for San Antonio-Orlando on ESPN Sunday afternoon, followed by 678,000 for Arlington-Houston on ESPN2 later that night.

The 50% decline from Week 1 to Week 2 was sharper than that of the prior XFL three years ago, which dropped 34% from 3.1 to 2.1 million. Keep in mind that the previous XFL had as many games on broadcast in Week 2 as in Week 1 (three).

Compared to Week 2 of last year’s USFL, which consisted of two games on broadcast and two on cable, the XFL’s Week 2 audience was down just slightly (661K to 655K). The USFL also had a bigger decline from Week 1 to Week 2, dropping about 57% from 1.57 million.

As previously noted, it took until the fifth and final week of play before the 2020 XFL fell below the million viewer mark. All told, only two of the 20 total XFL games that season averaged fewer than one million. The new version has now failed to hit that mark in six of eight games.

Week 3 for the XFL 3.0 could be a make or break weekend. The TV ratings are bad, but the stadium attendance figures are much worse. In comparing the numbers to XFL 2.0, week 1 in 2020 the league average attendance was 17,455, week 2, 19,071. XFL 3.0 week 1 the average attendance was 15,278, week 2, 10,046! Of the eight games played only one had an attendance above 13,000, last weekend only one game broke the 12,000 mark. I don't know if the league can make it to the end of the season with figures this low.

I made a post here a couple of months ago on why there are new Spring football leagues when all of them have been a dismal failure. This is the thread, and it is fairly recent.

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=429421&highlight=football

I watch the highlights of the games on Youtube on the weekend and the crowd is dismal seemingly across the board. Including that many of the teams are playing in subpar facilities, in Las Vegas it is the AAA baseball field (I dont know why they couldnt at least get Sam Boyd stadium, which isnt that great but holds about 40,000 fans).

Like I said in my above thread, I dont think most people are interested in watching football most of the year. From High School to the NFL is from August to February. The Spring has March Madness, NBA and then the beginning of MLB.

The play isnt that good. The fans do not want by and large want to watch players who cannot make an NFL practice squad. Perhaps one or two of these players can get another look from an NFL team, but not likely. The NFL already has a feeder system with the NCAA.

Then after the XFL is going to be the USFL, which isnt even having most of their teams playing in the cities of their name. My city of Memphis got the Tampa Bay team which never played in Tampa Bay. All the teams played in Birmingham Alabama (of all places) last year and except for the Birmingham team, the stadium was literally empty. Now the eight teams are going to play in three stadiums with Memphis being one of them.

But I dont think Memphis will care. Memphis has already roundly been turned down by the NFL in the 1990's (which I think in the end was a good thing, and now the city has an NBA team). The city has suffered through so many alternate minor league football teams and leagues. The Grizzlies (of the WFL), Showboats, Mad Dogs, Maniacs, Express, and now the Showboats again. Second tier cities like Birmingham, Orlando, and San Antonio has also seen so many of these leagues come and go, they dont stay and I think the people of those cities are now tired of it. I dont know how it would work but San Antonio should have an NFL team, but this would mean one division of the NFL having an extra team. I have read that the lion share of America lives within 300 miles of an NFL city and basically one has to be wealthy to go to a game anyway (arent tickets like a $100 a seat?) and most of us are happy watching it at home on our wide screens or on our mobile devices.

The ratings and attendance numbers are in for week 3 of the XFL 3.0 and the news is not good. This from sportsnaut.com concerning the Week 3 Nielsen numbers, pay particular attention to the final paragraph:


Week 3 XFL TV ratings

"As the 2023 XFL season continues to unfold, things are only getting worse for the league and its television partners. The latest television ratings from Week 3 continued the worrisome trend.

Seattle Dragons vs Vegas Vipers – FX – 528,000 avg. viewers, 0.29 rating
St. Louis Battlehawks vs D.C. Defenders – FX – 665,000 avg. viewers, 0.36 rating
Orlando Guardians vs Arlington Renegades – FX – 550,000 avg. viewers, 0.33 rating
San Antonio Brahmas vs Houston Roughnecks – ESPN2 – 543,000 avg. viewers, 0.32
As noted by SportsMediaWatch.com, just 2-of-20 XFL games in 2020 averaged below one million viewers whereas XFL 3.0 has already seen nine games (75% of its schedule) average fewer than one million viewers.

A week after three games on the Week 2 XFL schedule at least cracked 600,000 average viewers, FXÂ’s broadcast of the Battlehawks vs Defenders was the only matchup to accomplish that this week. Sensing a need for change, ESPN is moving two games off FX and will be broadcasting them on ESPN and ESPN2, while a third game shifts from ESPN to ABC. The network also changes the times to more viewer-friendly windows, hopefully boosting viewership for Week 4".

With the tournament tidal wave straight ahead, the moves being made to the television schedule could be seen as two-minute drill time for the league. Things need to start getting better in a hurry.

Attendance figures remain disappointing although there was a decent crowd in DC, a little over 16,000. of the 12 games so far only one has drawn more than 20,000 (San Antonio) the DC game is the only other contest that drew over 13k. Overall Week 3 attendance average of 11,391 was up a bit from the week 2's 10,046, but well behind week 3 2020 of 20,486.

It's hard to see light at the end of the tunnel, at this point it looks like another one and done for the XFL 3.0.

Like I said in my thread several months ago, Spring Football doesnt work and the fans are not interested and while the players are good, are NFL rejects. After the XFL, there is the USFL!

I notice there are betting lines for XFL games. I am thinking only a degenerate gambler willing to bet on most anything will bet on this. Basically unknown teams and unknown players. Someone pointed out to me here that these secondary leagues are there for sports betting which is lucrative.




I have only been there once for a day but San Antonio deserves and can support an NFL team. The problem is that the NFL doesnt want to expand and adding one more team will mean that one division will have an extra team.

Are any NFL teams unhappy with their station and would be willing to move? Seems that everyone is stable for now. But I really do not know.

When this XFL dies, the Washington DC NFL team should adopt the Defenders colors and logo. The Commanders just seems just something they settled on for lack of anything better and probably the most inoffensive name.

USFL mocks "Hollywood" XFL (https://flipboard.com/topic/xfl/thank-you-washington-by-taylor-heinicke/a-OnnIzdfAQnCqECXzqZT3Jg%3Aa%3A1895020832-f63d81ebcd%2Ftheplayerstribune.com)

USFL appears to take a shot (https://awfulannouncing.com/usfl/hollywood-xfl-commercial-dwayne-rock-johnson-real-football.html) at “Hollywood” XFL in new commercials.

USFL mocks "Hollywood" XFL (https://flipboard.com/topic/xfl/thank-you-washington-by-taylor-heinicke/a-OnnIzdfAQnCqECXzqZT3Jg%3Aa%3A1895020832-f63d81ebcd%2Ftheplayerstribune.com)

USFL appears to take a shot (https://awfulannouncing.com/usfl/hollywood-xfl-commercial-dwayne-rock-johnson-real-football.html) at “Hollywood” XFL in new commercials.

I took a look at the linked article from Awful Announcing, the opening paragraph is a bit misleading:

"The third iteration of the XFL is entering the sixth week of its season, and while it hasn’t set the football world on fire it certainly has attracted decent crowds in some markets (mostly St. Louis)".

Actually it's not mostly St. Louis, it's only St. Louis. Of the 20 games played 75% have drawn fewer than 15K. Of the five that drew more than 15K, two were barely over (DC 16,212, Seattle 15,103), the first game in San Antonio drew 24,000, and two impressive crowds in St. Louis, 38,000 and 35,000. Here's the average of each team with the number of home games in parenthesis.

St. Louis (2) 37,089

San Antonio (2) 18,759

DC (3) 13,390

Arlington (2) 12,026

Houston (3) 11,953

Seattle (3) 11,573

Orlando (2) 11,012

Vegas (3) 6,023

A couple of closing notes, San Antonio saw a 45% attendance drop between games 1 and 2. Vegas is stuck in a minor league ballpark with a capacity of just over 9,000 which could account for their very poor numbers.

The TV rating were a disaster last week due to the tournament, ESPN has indicated that the rating are within the range the company expected overall and were hurt because of the FX scheduling.

While "The Rock" is the face of the XFL, Redbird Capital (Gerry Cardinale) will be the thumbs up or thumbs down that will count.

The 2.0 version of the XFL shutdown after 5 weeks due to Covid issues, so from here on out we'll have nothing to compare it to. Up to this point, it hasn't done as well as the 2020 version leaving the future beyond 2023 very much in doubt.

These attendance numbers are pitiful, except for maybe St. Louis.

I went to the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss) one of the smaller schools in the SEC, but each home game gets at least 50,000 fans. For a mediocre college football team in the poorest state in the nation.

Second, cities like San Antonio and Orlando have seen sooooo many alternative football leagues come and go that people are just tired of it and don’t bother. The USFL has Memphis and Birmingham, another two cities that have seen again, so many minor league football teams come and die. Las Vegas has an XFL team but it has an NFL team now.

Concerning Las Vegas, that teams plays at a minor league baseball park. I can see them not getting the NFL stadium (supposedly because the owner of the NFL Raiders wouldn’t allow it) but there is another stadium called Sam Boyd Stadium. It’s small but can seat about 40,000 people. Las Vegas in my opinion is just not a good place for this, because there is so much other things to do in that city.

When this XFL dies, the Washington Commanders should snap up the name, colors and logo of the DC Defenders. (The 2020 logo). It’s sharp.

These attendance numbers are pitiful, except for maybe St. Louis.

I went to the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss) one of the smaller schools in the SEC, but each home game gets at least 50,000 fans. For a mediocre college football team in the poorest state in the nation.

Second, cities like San Antonio and Orlando have seen sooooo many alternative football leagues come and go that people are just tired of it and don’t bother. The USFL has Memphis and Birmingham, another two cities that have seen again, so many minor league football teams come and die. Las Vegas has an XFL team but it has an NFL team now.

Concerning Las Vegas, that teams plays at a minor league baseball park. I can see them not getting the NFL stadium (supposedly because the owner of the NFL Raiders wouldn’t allow it) but there is another stadium called Sam Boyd Stadium. It’s small but can seat about 40,000 people. Las Vegas in my opinion is just not a good place for this, because there is so much other things to do in that city.

When this XFL dies, the Washington Commanders should snap up the name, colors and logo of the DC Defenders. (The 2020 logo). It’s sharp.

In week 4, the attendance at the St. Louis home game was 38,310, last the the combined attendance for all teams was 38,725, a little over 400 more than attended the St. Louis game in week 4! As bad as that news was, week 7 is much worse. The combined attendance for week 7 was a microscopic 36,097, an average of 9,024 per game!

The good news for the league, St. Louis and San Antonio will play their remaining games at home which should boost the average attendance figures.

Football leagues XFL and USFL in merger talks (https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/xfl-usfl-merger)

Why it matters: Combining the two (https://www.google.com/search?q=xfl+usfl+merger&oq=XFL+USFL&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i64j69i59j0i3j0i512l3.4391j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) may be the smartest path forward for the leagues given the challenges and the history of failure for NFL alternatives.

Details (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/usfl-xfl-in-talks-to-merge-expected-to-create-one-spring-football-league-for-2024-season-per-report/): The merger would be structured as a merger of equals and would require regulatory approval, one of the sources said. The leagues hope to combine before the 2024 seasons.

Fox Corp. owns the USFL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Football_League_(2022)), while the XFL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2020)) is owned by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, his business partner Dany Garcia, and RedBird Capital Partners.

Game broadcasts of the combined league are likely to be split between Fox and XFL media partner Disney, according to the source. The USFL also has a broadcast agreement with NBC, although it's not yet been determined if that will continue.

An announcement of the deal could come as early as this week.

No surprise, in fact TJ predicted this is his post of 2/23. I mentioned on 3/24 Redbird Capital would be the thumbs up or thumbs down for the XFL, and Redbird had no intention of sticking around to bankroll a spring league on their own. Only one product had the potential of surviving, the question that remains, how much potential does the idea really have.

The NFL season keeps getting longer and longer, in 2024 the Super Bowl will be held on February 11th, so a spring league has only 5 weeks after that before it runs into the March Madness tidal wave. That's a big problem, the rating that first weekend in particular are worse than abysmal. The viability of the spring league idea is in very serious doubt, this is a last ditch attempt to save the concept, if the results don't improve in 2024 the merged league will shut down completely.

NBC won’t broadcast USFL, XFL games due to golf commitments (https://awfulannouncing.com/nbc/usfl-xfl-games-wont-broadcast-golf.html)

"We wish them success with the new league and their new partners."

The merger was the logical next step, only one league can survive in this space. That said, I don't think starting the season on March 30 is the way to go. The football audience has made their viewing adjustments with the Super Bowl now a dot in the rearview mirror. I think the merged league should have gone the other way, start the season the Saturday before Championship Sunday. With football interest and the cold of winter at its peak, the second weekend is up against the off weekend before the Super Bowl. Week 3 the games are played on the Saturday before the Super Bowl. The league could take a bye week the first March Madness weekend and return for the second half of the season the following week. They could play a ten week schedule, a playoff round, and a championship game and be done by April 20th. To me the key is catching the football audience while the football audience is still following the game and getting off the stage before May..