I just rewatched the Kaitlyn Arquette case where the mother and thus the family were pretty much adamant about the boyfriend, his friends or an insurance scam to have been the reason why she was killed while they police said it was a random attack. While the police made mistakes especially on the night and with a confession, in the end she was killed by a guy named Paul Apodaca who had been on the scene of the crime and who randomly attacked her. It is what it is but poor boyfriend and poor friends who were flat out accused for years and were totally not guilty of it. Also the thread about the case in the site is very yikes. Hopefully the producers of the Elisa Lam documentary don't find it and make a documentary about all the crazy theories in that one!

What other cases did that happen? I know the famous one is the one about the brother who was killed and the brother, the girlfriend and the ex husband of the girlfriend all accused each other and talked badly about each other and yet the police was right and it had been a robbery and they did it all for nothing. Also could be the Ellender case although I think that was more dubious and not totally resolved.

Good point

I just rewatched the Kaitlyn Arquette case where the mother and thus the family were pretty much adamant about the boyfriend, his friends or an insurance scam to have been the reason why she was killed while they police said it was a random attack. While the police made mistakes especially on the night and with a confession, in the end she was killed by a guy named Paul Apodaca who had been on the scene of the crime and who randomly attacked her. It is what it is but poor boyfriend and poor friends who were flat out accused for years and were totally not guilty of it. Also the thread about the case in the site is very yikes. Hopefully the producers of the Elisa Lam documentary don't find it and make a documentary about all the crazy theories in that one!

What other cases did that happen? I know the famous one is the one about the brother who was killed and the brother, the girlfriend and the ex husband of the girlfriend all accused each other and talked badly about each other and yet the police was right and it had been a robbery and they did it all for nothing. Also could be the Ellender case although I think that was more dubious and not totally resolved.

I mean, you have to look at it from her mother's perspective. This guy was into some illegal activity (her daughter was too for that matter) and he was an easy target for a random act of violence.

Back on topic, Tony Lombardi immediately comes to mind. Out of all the murder/suicides that UM profiled, this is the one where I feel the family was fishing for alternatives.

I can’t prove it and we’ll probably never know what really happened but I have to go with the theory provided by the police that Perm Gilbert was having an extramarital affair with one of his female customers, was most likely interrupted by the husband and that husband killed him and dumped his body off the side of the road.

It makes sooooooo much more sense than the wife believing he *might* have known about some illegal drug activities by unknown figures who killed him because he knew too much.

There’s no other logical reason for him to be found nude. A drug dealer or some random killer is not going to take the time to strip his clothes off after ending his life. The wife thinking him being found nude was just to add extra humiliation to the family…I just can’t wrap my head around that.

Cheryl Holland.

The police correctly believed that she was alive and assumed a new identity. Her sister believed "Cheryl was just there and didn't know what to do" and that her boyfriend killed her.

https://youtu.be/7bSJm8UMlqg?t=2650

Cindy James?

Someone would have been going to an awful lot of effort to do little more than tie her up and choke her for years.

I can’t prove it and we’ll probably never know what really happened but I have to go with the theory provided by the police that Perm Gilbert was having an extramarital affair with one of his female customers, was most likely interrupted by the husband and that husband killed him and dumped his body off the side of the road.

It makes sooooooo much more sense than the wife believing he *might* have known about some illegal drug activities by unknown figures who killed him because he knew too much.

There’s no other logical reason for him to be found nude. A drug dealer or some random killer is not going to take the time to strip his clothes off after ending his life. The wife thinking him being found nude was just to add extra humiliation to the family…I just can’t wrap my head around that.

To build on that, I always kind of believed that if one were to dig a little more into the Gilbert's marriage, there'd be some affairs on Permon's part and that this wouldn't have been any secret to his wife or anyone else who knew the couple.

I usually try not to judge the interviewees by how they "come across" in the segments. Having a TV camera in your face to discuss the murder of a loved one would understandably make people feel ill-at-ease. But I always felt like JoAnn and Gina (the eldest daughter) seemed like even THEY didn't totally buy their own "theories" as to what happened.

Of the murder/suicide segments? All of them.

I usually try not to judge the interviewees by how they "come across" in the segments. Having a TV camera in your face to discuss the murder of a loved one would understandably make people feel ill-at-ease.

This is an excellent point and I agree 100%. I sympathize for these people. They’re going through the kind of pain that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s a defense mechanism. You don’t want to believe your loved one would be capable of something so horrible.

Like Cheryl Holland’s sister. You could poke a dozen holes in every theory she put forth to explain her sister’s disappearance. She eventually learned the awful truth. And that doesn’t get any easier.

The Kenneth Ingie segment aired on Pluto TV tonight, and you could make a case for Kenneth and the police changing their theory from suicide to him dying of carbon monoxide poisoning while waiting for Curtis Heck to confront him over his damaged truck. The family believes Curtis murdered him, but the carbon monoxide theory does make sense.

Of the murder/suicide segments? All of them.

Yes, most of the time. I can think of an exception - there is no way Rena Paquette set herself on fire to kill herself as the police believed.

The Kenneth Ingie segment aired on Pluto TV tonight, and you could make a case for Kenneth and the police changing their theory from suicide to him dying of carbon monoxide poisoning while waiting for Curtis Heck to confront him over his damaged truck. The family believes Curtis murdered him, but the carbon monoxide theory does make sense.

I saw that not long ago on the Roku Channel and I don't think there's anything illogical about the carbon monoxide theory. I think it makes more sense than the family thinking he waited in the garage for an eventual confrontation that he had no way to predict.

Yes, most of the time. I can think of an exception - there is no way Rena Paquette set herself on fire to kill herself as the police believed.

I'd maybe say it's 70-30 in favor of them not being a murder.

The kids that covered themselves with a tarp to get run over by a train comes to mind as being a clear cut murder. I could maybe see Rena accidentally setting herself on fire and flailing about into the barn in panic trying to put herself out but really the segment presented very little on her death compared to her son so it's hard for me to really say.

Yes, most of the time. I can think of an exception - there is no way Rena Paquette set herself on fire to kill herself as the police believed.

I never really considered the Rena/Danny Paquette segment as a murder vs. suicide segment. But I do agree that she did not kill herself. She absolutely was murdered.