Would love to open a discussion for those that have watched the 1st episode that was released today.

God bless this family, I can only imagine their pain and the struggle to get through life now without their daughter. That being said, tragically, IMO, this was nothing more than a suicide, and they aren’t able to process that fact. Nothing was presented in the episode that would lead me to believe otherwise, and a lot of the things brought up just seemed like they were reaching to me.

Personally, it seemed like a spur of the moment decision, but I didn’t see any evidence of foul play presented. And I know they are adamant that their child was not depressed or suicidal. Sue Klebold wrote an entire book of the warning signs she missed with her son Dylan, and one of the big things she mentions is how many suicidal people will continue to make plans knowing they won’t be here for them. Chester Bennington’s wife didn’t see his suicide coming, and neither did the family of Robin Williams. As much as we’d like to believe that we would see the warning signs in a loved one, sometimes they just aren’t there for us to see in time.

This case slightly reminds me of the situation out in Kansas from the first season with the African-American guy going missing at the party.

The weird thing for me is why she left the party to go wandering around in the darkness in the first place?

However, I do suspect something went wrong because of the placement of her clothing and the distance from where she was last seen to the spot of the train impact.

It is feasible (50-50) for me to believe that someone did attempt an abduction/sexual assault and things got out of hand to where she was either killed and dumped onto the tracks OR she was fleeing the perpetrator(s) and wound up getting hit by the train.

Just my initial reactions... :)




Would love to open a discussion for those that have watched the 1st episode that was released today.

God bless this family, I can only imagine their pain and the struggle to get through life now without their daughter. That being said, tragically, IMO, this was nothing more than a suicide, and they aren’t able to process that fact. Nothing was presented in the episode that would lead me to believe otherwise, and a lot of the things brought up just seemed like they were reaching to me.

Personally, it seemed like a spur of the moment decision, but I didn’t see any evidence of foul play presented. And I know they are adamant that their child was not depressed or suicidal. Sue Klebold wrote an entire book of the warning signs she missed with her son Dylan, and one of the big things she mentions is how many suicidal people will continue to make plans knowing they won’t be here for them. Chester Bennington’s wife didn’t see his suicide coming, and neither did the family of Robin Williams. As much as we’d like to believe that we would see the warning signs in a loved one, sometimes they just aren’t there for us to see in time.

Her family's concerns and theories are completely plausible IMO.

But tada bad police work rears it's ugly head again and we'll never know.

EDIT: Of course Unsolved Mysteries leaves some things out, including a ton of stuff mentioned here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tiffany-valiante-parents-steve-and-dianne-from-mays-landing-say-daughter-was-killed-did-not-die-by-suicide

Definitely room to believe she was depressed/dealing with mental illness after reading that.

Like so many of the cases that fall into this Unsolved Mysteries trope of the Not-Suicide-Suicide ... I'm not buying the mystery.

The episode didn't make the case.

The deer cam would seem to rule out that she was abducted. There are no real clear suspects presented (though this is a common failing of the new show, like they're more afraid of being sued than they are presenting the aspects of a case). We're left with the age old it couldn't have been suicide because "it's not like her".

To me, it's seems most plausible that she went for a walk and perhaps tripped and fell at the wrong time.

EDIT: Of course Unsolved Mysteries leaves some things out, including a ton of stuff mentioned here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tiffany-valiante-parents-steve-and-dianne-from-mays-landing-say-daughter-was-killed-did-not-die-by-suicide

Definitely room to believe she was depressed/dealing with mental illness after reading that.



See, this is why the new Unsolved Mysteries is officially trash. How do we get less information in 50 minute episodes than we used to get in 12 minute segments?!

The family is not being forthright about the situation. There are a litany of instabilities presented, including that the mother had punched her daughter and child services became involved. Then that her family were denying her sexuality as a phase and that she was feeling isolated by her peers. But they obviously misrepresented the situation to their paid medical examiner:

"She noted that death by train is “an extremely unusual method of suicide to be contemplated by anyone, especially a female teenager with no history of emotional instability."

Anyway, yeah. Suicide or accident. Period.

See, this is why the new Unsolved Mysteries is officially trash. How do we get less information in 50 minute episodes than we used to get in 12 minute segments?!

The family is not being forthright about the situation. There are a litany of instabilities presented, including that the mother had punched her daughter and child services became involved. Then that her family were denying her sexuality as a phase and that she was feeling isolated by her peers. But they obviously misrepresented the situation to their paid medical examiner:

"She noted that death by train is “an extremely unusual method of suicide to be contemplated by anyone, especially a female teenager with no history of emotional instability."

Anyway, yeah. Suicide or accident. Period.

Yeah, I had read some Reddit threads from about 5 years ago, and a lot was left out. The family appears to have been really rigid on how they wanted this presented. I don’t think it was so much UM wanting to leave this information out as it was her family not wanting this to be allowed in. Because when you really start to piece things together, and include all the information, it more closely leads to suicide. Though I’d be willing to lean toward accident as well, but I primary believe this was a suicide.

Definite suicide IMO. The girl had a lot on her plate as it was and then add to that the shame she must have felt in the moment. She had recently ended her first serious relationship. And her parents were not at all accepting of her sexuality and just chalked it up as a “phase” she was going through. Then she stole from her friend via her debit card and then lied about it to said friend and her own parents, then was busted in the lie almost immediately after and within minutes took off on foot by herself while tensions were still high. The poor girl had to have been riddled with guilt and probably thought that everyone hated her and made a rash decision. It’s definitely a sad case but it’s not a very mysterious one.

Suicide and it's not even close. No Mystery here they are just trying to manufacture some mystery.

Most definitely NOT suicide. I can’t believe you people would say something so sickening.

Most definitely NOT suicide. I can’t believe you people would say something so sickening.

Exactly.

Folks here love to rush to suicide explanations.

No one has explained how she got that far down the road in bare feet without significant damage to her soles. Not to mention the weird placement of her clothing.

People are way too quick to believe the “official” story without using any critical thinking skills.

See, this is why the new Unsolved Mysteries is officially trash. How do we get less information in 50 minute episodes than we used to get in 12 minute segments?!

The family is not being forthright about the situation. There are a litany of instabilities presented, including that the mother had punched her daughter and child services became involved. Then that her family were denying her sexuality as a phase and that she was feeling isolated by her peers. But they obviously misrepresented the situation to their paid medical examiner:

"She noted that death by train is “an extremely unusual method of suicide to be contemplated by anyone, especially a female teenager with no history of emotional instability."

Anyway, yeah. Suicide or accident. Period.

You have some valid points this version of UM is complete trash. I keep trying to give it a chance.They spent 50 minutes on we didn't even get adequate information pertaining to the case. Yes what I don't like about this new Unsolved Mysteries is it gives the family the complete narrative. This is why an unbiased host is necessary for a show like this. I'm going to keep watching but this episode could have been given to DISAPPEARED it gave nothing to UM fans at all. I couldn't help but think about the episode with the two boys who were laid on the tracks on the OG series of UM.

This is probably one of the most asinine ways to commit suicide for a young lady so I'm not buying suicide. There are easier ways to do it and most women slit their wrists or take pills (some do blow their brains out but its rare) because they are vain and care about how they will look.

Anyone who lays on train tracks has to be drugged or mentally ill in my opinion that is just super super extreme.

I wonder what her relationships were like with her older siblings they didn't touch on that at all really. I think she was probably meeting up with someone she knew and trusted and something went awry while meeting that person. The fact she is basically naked is alarming.

The police botched yet another case. I still don't think this was UM material it felt like an episode of DISAPPEARED honestly.

I disagree with you this was not suicide or an accident this young lady was clearly murdered. No one accidentally gets hit by a train in the wee hours of the night wearing their underwear and sports bra or jumps in front of a moving train willingly basically naked. I'm not buying it. She was murdered and I think it was someone she knew.

Exactly.

Folks here love to rush to suicide explanations.

No one has explained how she got that far down the road in bare feet without significant damage to her soles. Not to mention the weird placement of her clothing.

I have noticed that trend on this site as well. I feel like she was raped and killed more than likely by someone she knew. The fact she was a lesbian makes me think it could have been a guy who had a crush on her who may have been a friend or acquaintance.

You have some valid points this version of UM is complete trash. I keep trying to give it a chance.They spent 50 minutes on we didn't even get adequate information pertaining to the case. Yes what I don't like about this new Unsolved Mysteries is it gives the family the complete narrative. This is why an unbiased host is necessary for a show like this. I'm going to keep watching but this episode could have been given to DISAPPEARED it gave nothing to UM fans at all. I couldn't help but think about the episode with the two boys who were laid on the tracks on the OG series of UM.

This is probably one of the most asinine ways to commit suicide for a young lady so I'm not buying suicide. There are easier ways to do it and most women slit their wrists or take pills (some do blow their brains out but its rare) because they are vain and care about how they will look.

Anyone who lays on train tracks has to be drugged or mentally ill in my opinion that is just super super extreme.

I wonder what her relationships were like with her older siblings they didn't touch on that at all really. I think she was probably meeting up with someone she knew and trusted and something went awry while meeting that person. The fact she is basically naked is alarming.

The police botched yet another case. I still don't think this was UM material it felt like an episode of DISAPPEARED honestly.

I disagree with you this was not suicide or an accident this young lady was clearly murdered. No one accidentally gets hit by a train in the wee hours of the night wearing their underwear and sports bra or jumps in front of a moving train willingly basically naked. I'm not buying it. She was murdered and I think it was someone she knew.

I've got to say, in the moment, someone that desperate would throw themselves in front of an oncoming train. That's as sure a fast death as shooting ones self in the head. That said, I don't completely buy the "suicide" explanation.

Yes, police sucked and botched this case big time.

Call me naive but, how does one "accidentally" get hit by a train if they're stone cold sober? Sure, getting a foot stuck in the tracks is one thing but that was clearly not the case here. So yeah, how does anyone aware, awake and not suicidal accidentally get hit by a train?

Trains are LOUD! They make a lot of noise when they're coming down the tracks at 80 mph. At night, they have a bright af light on. They rumble the tracks and earth the closer they get to you. Doesn't seem to be the same as accidentally stepping off the side walk and in front of an oncoming car.

Someone wearing headphones maybe? Oblivious to the noise? But then at night with the light and... yeah.

Maybe she got sleepy and decided to take a little snooze on the train tracks. As opposed to ANYWHERE else. That's an accident waiting to happen I suppose... :rolleyes:

Walking that far down the tracks without shoes doesn't make sense. Unless she was so distraught and out of her mind she didn't even feel the pain of walking without shoes. But wait, they said her feet did not have any cuts or abrasions on them.

If her arms and legs were "cut," severed by the train. Yeah maybe she was laying across the tracks. Like Ives and, I forgot the other boy's name. It’s these two facts and… something else I’ve forgotten at this late hour that make me stop from saying, “Yep. Suicide!”

Since people cannot be bothered to look into things outside of the narrative that is fed to them:

* She stole her friend's debit card. Her friend told her parents about it the night she disappeared. Tiffany denied it. Her mother started to search her car and she noticed Tiffany trying to slyly hide the card in her back pocket. When the mother went inside to get the father, Tiffany was gone.

* A K-9 handler was brought in because her parents were insistent that someone picked her up in a vehicle. The K-9 handler did not know anything about the locations other than where the Valiante residence was. The K-9 led the handler on a 3.2 mile trek that ended at the "general area (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22088148-bloodhound)" of where she was hit by the train.

* CPS had been called to the family home multiple times in the year prior. A teacher noticed bruises on Tiffany's arm and her mother admitted to punching her during an argument the two were having.

* Two days after a therapy session between Tiffany and her mother, Tiffany's grandfather died. She started skipping classes and stole money from her parents.

* When she came out (6 months before her death) to her parents, her mother told her she was "just going through a phase". A friend of Tiffany's described her as "lonely" and feeling distant from her parents preceding her death.

* A different friend said that Tiffany felt she could "never fit in" and was sad about life in general. Other friends said that she had cut her wrist and leg on two separate occasions.

* Her parents initially accepted the suicide ruling. That changed when her mother found her shoes and head band.

* The man who claims to have overheard the three boys talking about Tiffany being forced to strip at gunpoint got several details wrong when recounting the story to the police: he said the friend who had her card stolen confronted Tiffany at the graduation party in front of a crowd, and said that the friend never reached back out to the family after Tiffany's death. He was implying that this friend was one of the ones who had forced her to strip at gunpoint (the segment says one male and two females). The only problem is that the friend spoke at Tiffany's funeral, brought over mementos to Tiffany's parents after the funeral, and then was coldly kicked off of their property two weeks later.

* All three of the teenagers were interviewed separately, and all of them were baffled about the story told by the man from the convenience store. All of them had airtight alibis for the night of Tiffany's death.

* The friend who confronted Tiffany about the stolen card left Tiffany's house with her mother. Tiffany's mother called the unnamed friend with the stolen card after Tiffany left and told her that Tiffany "ran away". The friend (stolen card) rushed back to Tiffany's home with two other friends to help look for her. Even though it's implied from the story given by the convenience store worker (one male, two females) that the stolen card friend would have been the only possible person to want to have caused her harm on that specific night, this friend wouldn't have had the time to do it. She was back at Tiffany's house minutes after the confrontation and helped look for her. The train impact did not happen yet.

* The segment completely glossed over the recent breakup and made it seem like she was completely fine about it. Her friends descriptions of her in the weeks prior to her death would seem to indicate otherwise.

* The biggest piece of evidence favoring suicide is that the train conductor himself witnessed her walk in front of the train. He did not see anyone else. She wasn't lying down on the tracks a la Henry & Ives. This man would have zero incentive to lie about what he saw.

Other than all of the above, yeah, why are so many people speculating suicide?!

I have noticed that trend on this site as well. I feel like she was raped and killed more than likely by someone she knew. The fact she was a lesbian makes me think it could have been a guy who had a crush on her who may have been a friend or acquaintance.

There’s definitely a trend on this site where people stubbornly refuse to accept the mysterious which is bizarre because this is Unsolved Mysteries! This episode laid out a great case for murder, yet posters on here are disrespecting this girl’s memory by accusing her of being a suicide. This kind of complacency is how murderers get away with it.

Call me naive but, how does one "accidentally" get hit by a train if they're stone cold sober? Sure, getting a foot stuck in the tracks is one thing but that was clearly not the case here. So yeah, how does anyone aware, awake and not suicidal accidentally get hit by a train?

:

Trip over a rock in a dark unkept area. Easy.

There’s definitely a trend on this site where people stubbornly refuse to accept the mysterious which is bizarre because this is Unsolved Mysteries! This episode laid out a great case for murder, yet posters on here are disrespecting this girl’s memory by accusing her of being a suicide. This kind of complacency is how murderers get away with it.

When logic, reason and facts prevail… clutch the pearls and blame the board. :rolleyes:

Walking that far down the tracks without shoes doesn't make sense. Unless she was so distraught and out of her mind she didn't even feel the pain of walking without shoes. But wait, they said her feet did not have any cuts or abrasions on them.

If her arms and legs were "cut," severed by the train. Yeah maybe she was laying across the tracks. Like Ives and, I forgot the other boy's name. It’s these two facts and… something else I’ve forgotten at this late hour that make me stop from saying, “Yep. Suicide!”

Except she was never said to be lying on the tracks. That was a theory from the mother that she made up. Witnesses either have her standing or diving(falling). No one saw a person laying down.

When logic, reason and facts prevail… clutch the pearls and blame the board. :rolleyes:

You must accept the conclusions set forth in an entertainment show in which the police, transit workers, and friends of the deceased did not speak on. I mean the show is called "Unsolved Mysteries" for a reason!

For the folks who keep ranting about how dismissive everyone is of the murder theory, who murdered her, and why?

You must accept the conclusions set forth in an entertainment show in which the police, transit workers, and friends of the deceased did not speak on. I mean the show is called "Unsolved Mysteries" for a reason!

For the folks who keep ranting about how dismissive everyone is of the murder theory, who murdered her, and why?

Thus why the no narrator format of the new show dooms it to failure. No one to speak rationally about the case. No one to represent facts.

You must accept the conclusions set forth in an entertainment show in which the police, transit workers, and friends of the deceased did not speak on. I mean the show is called "Unsolved Mysteries" for a reason!

For the folks who keep ranting about how dismissive everyone is of the murder theory, who murdered her, and why?

Exactly this. So many people claiming we’re tarnishing her name and reputation by even *considering* the fact that it was a suicide all along, yet no one has presented any evidence that would lead me to believe it was murder.

You must accept the conclusions set forth in an entertainment show in which the police, transit workers, and friends of the deceased did not speak on. I mean the show is called "Unsolved Mysteries" for a reason!

For the folks who keep ranting about how dismissive everyone is of the murder theory, who murdered her, and why?

And that's the key. While watching this I kept thinking "Okay, there's got to be some bombshell that points to murder", but it never came. There was no small town gossip, no suspicious characters at the scene, no threatening texts, no threatening letters or any writings about threats. The only account of murder was the employee who heard it from 3 teens who heard it from somebody else, but those 3 denied it. You'd figure more would have heard about it, and it spread through the town, but nothing. Everything presented in the episode makes me think suicide. And reading about what was left out, makes me think suicide.

And that's the key. While watching this I kept thinking "Okay, there's got to be some bombshell that points to murder", but it never came. There was no small town gossip, no suspicious characters at the scene, no threatening texts, no threatening letters or any writings about threats. The only account of murder was the employee who heard it from 3 teens who heard it from somebody else, but those 3 denied it. You'd figure more would have heard about it, and it spread through the town, but nothing. Everything presented in the episode makes me think suicide. And reading about what was left out, makes me think suicide.

They imply that it was two females and one male who were involved in holding her at gunpoint and forcing her to strip. It's also implied that this got out of hand and Tiffany ran away from them and was hit by the train. However, there is only one person who would have had the motive to do this to her: the friend that she stole the card from. The problem is that after the confrontation at Tiffany's house, the friend left with her mother. When Tiffany's mother Diane called the friend to tell her that Tiffany "ran away", the friend came back over to Tiffany's house to help look for her. This all happened before the train impact. There is no evidence that anyone would have wanted to harm her. She wouldn't have gotten in a car with a stranger. The K-9 tracked her scent from the parents house to the train tracks. It's pretty cut and dried.

They imply that it was two females and one male who were involved in holding her at gunpoint and forcing her to strip. It's also implied that this got out of hand and Tiffany ran away from them and was hit by the train. However, there is only one person who would have had the motive to do this to her: the friend that she stole the card from. The problem is that after the confrontation at Tiffany's house, the friend left with her mother. When Tiffany's mother Diane called the friend to tell her that Tiffany "ran away", the friend came back over to Tiffany's house to help look for her. This all happened before the train impact. There is no evidence that anyone would have wanted to harm her. She wouldn't have gotten in a car with a stranger. The K-9 tracked her scent from the parents house to the train tracks. It's pretty cut and dried.

Plus she’s on the deer cam.

Since people cannot be bothered to look into things outside of the narrative that is fed to them:

* She stole her friend's debit card. Her friend told her parents about it the night she disappeared. Tiffany denied it. Her mother started to search her car and she noticed Tiffany trying to slyly hide the card in her back pocket. When the mother went inside to get the father, Tiffany was gone.

* A K-9 handler was brought in because her parents were insistent that someone picked her up in a vehicle. The K-9 handler did not know anything about the locations other than where the Valiante residence was. The K-9 led the handler on a 3.2 mile trek that ended at the "general area (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22088148-bloodhound)" of where she was hit by the train.

* CPS had been called to the family home multiple times in the year prior. A teacher noticed bruises on Tiffany's arm and her mother admitted to punching her during an argument the two were having.

* Two days after a therapy session between Tiffany and her mother, Tiffany's grandfather died. She started skipping classes and stole money from her parents.

* When she came out (6 months before her death) to her parents, her mother told her she was "just going through a phase". A friend of Tiffany's described her as "lonely" and feeling distant from her parents preceding her death.

* A different friend said that Tiffany felt she could "never fit in" and was sad about life in general. Other friends said that she had cut her wrist and leg on two separate occasions.

* Her parents initially accepted the suicide ruling. That changed when her mother found her shoes and head band.

* The man who claims to have overheard the three boys talking about Tiffany being forced to strip at gunpoint got several details wrong when recounting the story to the police: he said the friend who had her card stolen confronted Tiffany at the graduation party in front of a crowd, and said that the friend never reached back out to the family after Tiffany's death. He was implying that this friend was one of the ones who had forced her to strip at gunpoint (the segment says one male and two females). The only problem is that the friend spoke at Tiffany's funeral, brought over mementos to Tiffany's parents after the funeral, and then was coldly kicked off of their property two weeks later.

* All three of the teenagers were interviewed separately, and all of them were baffled about the story told by the man from the convenience store. All of them had airtight alibis for the night of Tiffany's death.

* The friend who confronted Tiffany about the stolen card left Tiffany's house with her mother. Tiffany's mother called the unnamed friend with the stolen card after Tiffany left and told her that Tiffany "ran away". The friend (stolen card) rushed back to Tiffany's home with two other friends to help look for her. Even though it's implied from the story given by the convenience store worker (one male, two females) that the stolen card friend would have been the only possible person to want to have caused her harm on that specific night, this friend wouldn't have had the time to do it. She was back at Tiffany's house minutes after the confrontation and helped look for her. The train impact did not happen yet.

* The segment completely glossed over the recent breakup and made it seem like she was completely fine about it. Her friends descriptions of her in the weeks prior to her death would seem to indicate otherwise.

* The biggest piece of evidence favoring suicide is that the train conductor himself witnessed her walk in front of the train. He did not see anyone else. She wasn't lying down on the tracks a la Henry & Ives. This man would have zero incentive to lie about what he saw.

Other than all of the above, yeah, why are so many people speculating suicide?!

https://media.tenor.com/YV_txQTmGuQAAAAM/dewayne-johnson-dwayne.gif

Game. Set. Match.

This is just about as clear cut of a suicide as any I’ve seen on UM. As I said before, it’s a sad case but it’s certainly not a mysterious one.

Plus she’s on the deer cam.

"She looks as if someone is calling her name!", the mother says, as it shows Tiffany looking behind her, exactly a minute later where her parents would walk into the frame. The logical conclusion is that her parents were calling out her name and she turned in that direction.

I do think it's more probable that it was her doing -- suicide or accident.

But the thing that is weird to me -- did she know a train would pass thru there at a given time? Because otherwise an impromptu suicide by jumping in front of a passing train seems pretty random and wild.

I do think it's more probable that it was her doing -- suicide or accident.

But the thing that is weird to me -- did she know a train would pass thru there at a given time? Because otherwise an impromptu suicide by jumping in front of a passing train seems pretty random and wild.

I grew up in Monmouth County, New Jersey. Speaking from my experience, the trains rain on a predictable schedule each day. I haven’t lived there in 15 years, but I do remember the trains ran frequently, like every 15-30 minutes or so.

It’s highly likely she knew the approximate train schedule since they were so close to the tracks. Or, it could have been a split decision she made while wandering in the woods. IE “Here comes a train, jump.”

I do think it's more probable that it was her doing -- suicide or accident.

But the thing that is weird to me -- did she know a train would pass thru there at a given time? Because otherwise an impromptu suicide by jumping in front of a passing train seems pretty random and wild.

That's why I tend to side with accident. But the same principle makes murder-by-train equally hard.

You'd have to know not just the train schedule, where it's going to be at Stop X at time Y, but also factor in distance and speed to perfectly time throwing/jumping into that train at that mile marker. And there was apparently an out-of-service train it was going to link up with a tow that would have factored into the usual schedule as well.

Walking that far down the tracks without shoes doesn't make sense.


Here's my thing about "doesn't make sense" arguments when it comes to suicide, and I'm speaking generally not singling you out. If this was a suicide then we're not dealing with someone exercising a typical thought process and one can't apply logic to those situations. If someone could throw themselves in front of a train why would it be a stretch that they also took off some of their clothes?

She also texted one of her friends, "Just answer yes or no: should I do it?" on the night of her death. But I wouldn't necessarily rule out an accidental death here. She was ditching her clothes as she was walking towards the tracks. I would have had more respect for this episode if they explored that possibility over the farfetched murder scenario presented by the mother.

Except she was never said to be lying on the tracks. That was a theory from the mother that she made up. Witnesses either have her standing or diving(falling). No one saw a person laying down.

Did you stay awake for the whole episode this time? The autopsy says her limbs were cut from the body. Her mother didn’t “make it up.” That’s more consistent with a body laying across the tracks than standing. Also, the engineers changed their stories. But you can find out more about that yourself.

Please take this with a grain of salt.

Someone on reddit messaged me claiming to be one of the three friends who went looking for Tiffany on the night of her death. They said that the consensus among her friends was that she committed suicide. When I asked why her parents did not accept the suicide ruling, I got this response (spelling errors included):

It’s just the first time I’ve seen someone that wasn’t the three us tell the truth the way we would. I truly don’t think they’re able to except it because of the role they probably played in it happening. They did not have a good relationship. The first thing her mother said to us when we arrived we “I dont know why she did this. I dont know why she ran away. I didn’t even hit her this time” they did not except her sexuality tiff has told friends that she was scared her dad would do something to her for being a lesbian.

Again. Grain of salt and all that.

I did, yes.

Please take this with a grain of salt.

Someone on reddit messaged me claiming to be one of the three friends who went looking for Tiffany on the night of her death. They said that the consensus among her friends was that she committed suicide. When I asked why her parents did not accept the suicide ruling, I got this response (spelling errors included):



Again. Grain of salt and all that.

At a bare minimum it tracks with the article. Child services doesn't get involved over a single bruise.

Some more messages:

Thank you for telling the story. I’ve been threatened by the family on 2 separate occasions. I see a lot of people saying well where are the three friends. I can you you know one us, and assuming you know [unnamed friend who had card stolen]. Also thank you for not directly dropping her name. But we’re all scared of the family we’ve tried to respect them and their grief over the years. But now they’re trying to make us especially [unnamed friend] look like a murder? Come the hell on now. But it was comforting to see someone tell the truth how I would.

Tiff self harmed often. She lied about her middle name to the point where the funeral home initially printed them they were wrong. She told people her name was Tiffany Marie and it was really Tiffany ida Mae

This was all in response to me copying and pasting my comment from this board on page 2 over on reddit. And for the record, I did ask if I could share this, and if they had anything else they would like me to get out publicly to tell a more coherent picture of what had happened.

Some more messages:



This was all in response to me copying and pasting my comment from this board on page 2 over on reddit. And for the record, I did ask if I could share this, and if they had anything else they would like me to get out publicly to tell a more coherent picture of what had happened.

Thanks for sharing this information!

More messages (bolded is emphasis from me):

Yeah it hasn’t been an easy 7 years I’ll say that. What I can say on behalf of the 3 of us was [unnamed friend with stolen card] went there comfort her because it wasn’t “$83” stolen it was a lot more than that. Tiffany got very confrontational and anyone who knows [unnamed friend] knows she doesn’t do conflict so her and her own mother left. Ahh **** it I’m [gives me her name]. Me and the other girl were working together [unnamed friend] came back to us before 10 o’clock we didn’t get off until 10. I was locking the door at 10:10 exactly when Diane called and said that Tiffany ran away. We arrived in there driveway around 1040??? There’s talk that there was a phone call answered for 24 seconds, but that was when Tiffany‘s father found the phone and he answered it and it was silent for a second and we thought she had answered the phone and then he came on the phone saying he found the phone. We were in her driveway with her mother until almost midnight as her mom was yelling to the woods Tiffany [unnamed friend]'s here we love you we’re here all of this we did not leave her side we left around midnight and went the opposite direction of where the tracks are. We were. If you’re familiar with the area we were we went to the hockey courts that are down the street from her and drove up and down her street seeing if she was there we were doing anything we possibly could to help we left, the Valente’s house around 2 AM. I took the two girls back to Dairy Queen as we were on our way home Diane called [unnamed friend] and informed her her words not ours that Tiffany had taken her her own life. She stood in front of a train. We attended Tiffany’s funeral, where the family thanked us and showed us nothing but gratitude for helping them search for her the night she ran away a few days. later the detective showed up to question me in regards to what I think happened. I stated that me and Tiffany weren’t long-term friends. We had just gotten close over the course of a couple of months but she had expressed to me multiple times that she wasn’t OK that she wasn’t happy. Tiffany was one of those friends you had to check on And no there was never a thought that she was going to harm herself and we didn’t report it. She was just one of those friends you always let know you were there for them because she had a dark side and I I do agree with the family that the investigation was not done adequately But there’s also so many pieces that are left out in the show they state that the blood was in one spot. There are multiple people that went to those train tracks the morning after and what they saw back. There was nothing short of a disaster there was pieces of her hair still on the tracks. There was part of Her skull was there Teeth the trees were covered in blood and guts essentially but in the show they make it seem like it’s just that one spot and a lot of people made it practically that it wasn’t there so the family didn’t see that. I’m sitting here watching this all unfold and everyone is blaming the girl whose debit card it was one that’s the last person that would do anything to anyone. We never stepped forward out of respect to the family. I personally have been reached out to by many news outlets, and I have continuously always said I do not believe that this is something her family would agree on me speaking about I politely decline any further contact. As for the Netflix show I can 100% say that I was never reached out to by a producer by anyone for this show

Also, there’s so much speculation that we were never questioned [unnamed friend] was interrogated if I’m correct for almost 10 hours I’m sharing this with you because you’ve told the truth I don’t mind if you put out that we have spoke, but I do ask that please don’t drop their names

Also, I just wanted to add that suicide by train, while rare, has happened before:

https://tdor.translivesmatter.info/reports/2020/08/30/rukia-isis-bemer_lakewood-ohio-usa_d9adc83d

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/11/1994934/-Cleveland-Trans-woman-Rukia-Isis-Bemer-died-on-a-railroad-track

Again, a very sad case indeed. But certainly not a mysterious one.

Edit: Whoa! Suicide by train is far more common than I thought:

“In June 2011, FRA began systematically collecting suicide data from U.S. rail carriers. For each year from 2012 to 2017, more than 219 people died by suicide within the U.S. rail system, and another 220 individuals were injured during that period from rail suicide attempts. In 2015, the U.S. rail system experienced its highest recorded number of suicide incidents with 358 incidents (328 fatal and 30 injuries).”

Source:

https://www.volpe.dot.gov/rail-suicide-prevention

Hello everyone!

Just popping in to remind everyone that as new cases are being profiled, we’re all entitled our opinions— I got home late last night and didn’t get a chance to watch, but it seems that the question here is suicide v. murder.

Let’s all be mindful about respecting other’s opinions! Questions and critical thinking are welcomed! Insults are not.

I know the UM reboot is not what everyone expected…. but I’m going to throw it out there and comment that I am still loving that piano theme!

For those of you who think it was suicide, I hope your child gets murdered and everyone tells you that it was suicide. Then we’ll see how you like it.

This is a completely rational take. LMAO how has this troll not been banned by now?

This is a completely rational take. LMAO how has this troll not been banned by now?

They’ve made themselves look foolish enough with a post like that IMO. :banana:

More messages (bolded is emphasis from me):

Thanks for these.

Still haven’t watched it but am here to steer the discussion in a different direction: I kinda get the sense the show runners were attempting to recapture the lightening in a bottle that was the Rey Rivera case.

Anyone else get that vibe?

Anyone else get that vibe?

Absolutely.

They took an obvious suicide, presented the information provided by the family that was either borderline fictitious or irrelevant, and presented it as a probable murder. Any serious person watching that segment would have immediately googled, "things Unsolved Mysteries left out of the Tiffany Valiante segment" at its conclusion.

We shut this episode off only 15 minutes in and after reading up more on the case. This is not a mystery and a terrible first episode to the season. It is difficult as the family is in pain and denial of her death, but to have an episode omit so much information is BS.

I'm watching the episode now, so I can't really give an opinion yet on what I think may have happened to this young lady. I can however speak about my own experiences in the hopes that it may provide some additional insights.
Last year, my cousin tragically took her own life with a self inflicted GSW. She was a beautiful young woman who was married with two very young children, and working successfully as a nurse. I loved and admired her very much and respected her tremendously. When I was notified of her death, the first thing I did was express disbelief over the way she died. And if I'm being completely honest, I STILL struggle with those doubts. Though their grief is profound, her parents (my aunt and uncle respectively), seem to have accepted that she took her own life, although no one seems adequately able to explain why. We all have lingering questions, and we've all had to resign ourselves to the reality that we'll likely never get them answered. To this day, I don't discuss my remaining doubts with my aunt and uncle because I would never want to add to their already massive pain. As much as I hate to say this, I now know that it's possible to lose someone to suicide having never seen any "warning signs" before hand.
Again, I'm not saying that Tiffany Valiente's death was a suicide. I honestly don't know what happened in this case. What I can say however, is that sometimes those answers that you so desperately seek just aren't there to be found...no matter how painful and unfair it is.

Just like the Cindy James case - it is entirely possible for someone to have depression and/or mental health issues or emotional drama and still be murdered.

The issues that were happening with Tiffany are somewhat common (sadly) with LBGTQ youth. Apparently, there were some problems within the family, but what specifically says that she was so depressed or unhappy that she would willfully jump in front of a speeding train?

I'm not saying that suicide is off of the table, but there's also a possibility that she was intercepted by someone she knew and thought she could trust and that person or persons attempted to assault her and things went sideways.

Obviously, there's enough gaps in the situation that could easily lead to someone being responsible for her death. Especially if she were trying to escape a bad situation and ended up being thrown or falling onto the tracks.

I'm not saying that suicide is off of the table, but there's also a possibility that she was intercepted by someone she knew and thought she could trust and that person or persons attempted to assault her and things went sideways.

No, there isn't. A K-9 dog tracked her scent from her parents house to the train tracks. She wasn't picked up by a vehicle. Her parents did not accept her sexuality. They probably don't want to blame themselves for her death, so they invented this bizarre murder fantasy.

Okay, I'm coming in with an opinion now that I've watched it:

There are some similarities to the Cindy James case, as comicbookwriter has pointed out. It's absolutely within the realm of possibility that a depressed teen with some pretty big trauma and mental health issues could cross paths with the wrong person and become the victim of foul play. I'm one of the folks in the minority who believe that Cindy James was a victim of foul play.

That being said, however... I believe this young lady committed suicide.

I don't say that lightly or to smear her image. I'm just looking at the facts as I see them, both what was presented in the episode and what was woefully left out. And as Cars and others have pointed out.... A LOT was omitted from our information.

So, walk with me for a second here:

As I'm first watching the episode and Tiffany initially disappears, it struck me as odd that EVERYONE was blowing up her phone as depicted. Did that strike anyone else as odd, or am I the oddball here? The messages that I'm paraphrasing but were like, "PLEASE JUST COME HOME" and "WE LOVE YOU COME HOME" seemed like a massive over-reaction to an eighteen year old who presumably took off to clear her head, throw a temper tantrum, etc. In my personal experience, I've texted folks like that, using that language. Those folks were suicidal. That was the first red flag for me.

I realize that a whole lotta stock has been placed into the "constantly changing stories" of the train engineers. I read police reports for a living, as most of y'all know. This is a very common occurrence, especially when someone has experienced a major trauma. The circumstances of Tiffany's death are incredibly traumatic. We see similar type deaths in Montana, where people will run their cars head-on into a semi truck, or they will run off the side of the interstate into interstate traffic to be hit by a semi truck. I cannot imagine how horrible and distressing that would be for the person operating the semi. In most of those cases, the operator accounts will vary slightly as time passes. The operators are not robots-- they have also suffered a major trauma. Their memories are going to change.

Her missing shorts. There are a couple of explanations here, but to me, I'd argue that Tiffany may have been separated from her shorts at the time of impact and that the pants were shredded by the train bearing down on everything. The fabric of the shorts didn't strike me as really rigid or new denim. Someone else pointed out that an EMT could have cut the pants off while attempting to render aid.

Now, considering all the evidence that wasn't covered in the telecast... specifically that her parents didn't accept her coming out and thought it was a "phase," not to mention that her mother allegedly made the comment, "I don't know why she ran away, I didn't even hit her this time,"... it seems that all was definitely not well in Tiffany's home. She had been in trouble for stealing money from her parents before. It sounds like she got caught stealing from a friend the night she died and her mother made a comment about, "Well, NOW I have to tell your father about this..." I could absolutely see someone saying, "I'm out" over all of it.

I feel for the family in this case. I really do. But when I look at the mannerisms of the parents, specifically her mother, I don't see profound grief. I see profound guilt. I see the mother scrambling for any other explanation other than her own actions that may have influenced Tiffany to decide to harm herself.

It's horrible and sad and I don't wish this fact pattern on anyone-- but I strongly believe Tiffany chose to end her own life on the train tracks that night.

Her missing shorts. There are a couple of explanations here, but to me, I'd argue that Tiffany may have been separated from her shorts at the time of impact and that the pants were shredded by the train bearing down on everything. The fabric of the shorts didn't strike me as really rigid or new denim. Someone else pointed out that an EMT could have cut the pants off while attempting to render aid.

Tiffany's friend said that she stole her friend's debit card and ran up purchases on clothes and food. She said specifically that the shoes she was wearing that night were bought with the stolen card. In their opinion, she felt guilty about it and that's why she removed them. The same could be said for the shorts, but her friend did tell me that the crime scene was extremely graphic.

Okay, I'm coming in with an opinion now that I've watched it:

There are some similarities to the Cindy James case, as comicbookwriter has pointed out. It's absolutely within the realm of possibility that a depressed teen with some pretty big trauma and mental health issues could cross paths with the wrong person and become the victim of foul play. I'm one of the folks in the minority who believe that Cindy James was a victim of foul play.

That being said, however... I believe this young lady committed suicide.

I don't say that lightly or to smear her image. I'm just looking at the facts as I see them, both what was presented in the episode and what was woefully left out. And as Cars and others have pointed out.... A LOT was omitted from our information.

So, walk with me for a second here:

As I'm first watching the episode and Tiffany initially disappears, it struck me as odd that EVERYONE was blowing up her phone as depicted. Did that strike anyone else as odd, or am I the oddball here? The messages that I'm paraphrasing but were like, "PLEASE JUST COME HOME" and "WE LOVE YOU COME HOME" seemed like a massive over-reaction to an eighteen year old who presumably took off to clear her head, throw a temper tantrum, etc. In my personal experience, I've texted folks like that, using that language. Those folks were suicidal. That was the first red flag for me.

I realize that a whole lotta stock has been placed into the "constantly changing stories" of the train engineers. I read police reports for a living, as most of y'all know. This is a very common occurrence, especially when someone has experienced a major trauma. The circumstances of Tiffany's death are incredibly traumatic. We see similar type deaths in Montana, where people will run their cars head-on into a semi truck, or they will run off the side of the interstate into interstate traffic to be hit by a semi truck. I cannot imagine how horrible and distressing that would be for the person operating the semi. In most of those cases, the operator accounts will vary slightly as time passes. The operators are not robots-- they have also suffered a major trauma. Their memories are going to change.

Her missing shorts. There are a couple of explanations here, but to me, I'd argue that Tiffany may have been separated from her shorts at the time of impact and that the pants were shredded by the train bearing down on everything. The fabric of the shorts didn't strike me as really rigid or new denim. Someone else pointed out that an EMT could have cut the pants off while attempting to render aid.

Now, considering all the evidence that wasn't covered in the telecast... specifically that her parents didn't accept her coming out and thought it was a "phase," not to mention that her mother allegedly made the comment, "I don't know why she ran away, I didn't even hit her this time,"... it seems that all was definitely not well in Tiffany's home. She had been in trouble for stealing money from her parents before. It sounds like she got caught stealing from a friend the night she died and her mother made a comment about, "Well, NOW I have to tell your father about this..." I could absolutely see someone saying, "I'm out" over all of it.

I feel for the family in this case. I really do. But when I look at the mannerisms of the parents, specifically her mother, I don't see profound grief. I see profound guilt. I see the mother scrambling for any other explanation other than her own actions that may have influenced Tiffany to decide to harm herself.

It's horrible and sad and I don't wish this fact pattern on anyone-- but I strongly believe Tiffany chose to end her own life on the train tracks that night.

Thank you for your perspective, I always enjoy reading your thoughts on different cases!

Okay, I'm coming in with an opinion now that I've watched it:

There are some similarities to the Cindy James case, as comicbookwriter has pointed out. It's absolutely within the realm of possibility that a depressed teen with some pretty big trauma and mental health issues could cross paths with the wrong person and become the victim of foul play. I'm one of the folks in the minority who believe that Cindy James was a victim of foul play.


Wait... people think Cindy James committed suicide???

Wow.

Also, I just wanted to add that suicide by train, while rare, has happened before:

https://tdor.translivesmatter.info/reports/2020/08/30/rukia-isis-bemer_lakewood-ohio-usa_d9adc83d

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/11/1994934/-Cleveland-Trans-woman-Rukia-Isis-Bemer-died-on-a-railroad-track

Again, a very sad case indeed. But certainly not a mysterious one.

Edit: Whoa! Suicide by train is far more common than I thought:

“In June 2011, FRA began systematically collecting suicide data from U.S. rail carriers. For each year from 2012 to 2017, more than 219 people died by suicide within the U.S. rail system, and another 220 individuals were injured during that period from rail suicide attempts. In 2015, the U.S. rail system experienced its highest recorded number of suicide incidents with 358 incidents (328 fatal and 30 injuries).”

Source:

https://www.volpe.dot.gov/rail-suicide-prevention

Suicide by train is very common. A distant cousin works for the railway in Connecticut. His first day on the job, someone jumped in front of the train he was on. They had to look for the body. He opens the door on his car and looks down. Here’s the jumper’s body. Before he can alert his coworker, the jumper opens his eyes and screams in pain. He got 6 months off work to deal with the trauma he experienced on the first day of work.

I am 98% sure it was suicide and SHAME ON Netflix and UM for glossing over extremely important information such as the fact that she was a depressed, a lesbian (lgbtq suicide rate is MUCH higher) , not happy, the fact that CPS had been called multiple times due to her mom abusing her, the family counseling, the mother disowning her other daughters etc etc.

As already stated the parents controlled the narrative completely and cannot accept their part in her unhappiness or decision to kill herself. Also shame on the lawyers and PI for telling the parents what they want to hear for a quick buck and trying to blame the train drivers.

This person lays it all out much better than I could...excellent read and excellent discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/y8jxqf/my_airtight_tiffany_valiante_theory/

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pressofatlanticcity.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/60/86055826-a4a5-541d-bdb9-f4adef06982d/5c14026381c81.image.jpg?resize=427%2C500

I too would like to thank you CRicci for your well stated analysis on this one. I've also finished the episode now and feel better able to offer an opinion. I have to admit that this case is challenging for me because I want to weigh in, but at the same time I feel compelled to choose my words very carefully so that I'm not adding to anyone's pain or making unfair assumptions. Okay, now that my concerns have been stated, here goes...

I certainly understand a family's immediate instinct to dispute a suicide ruling. For the reasons I stated up thread, I know how powerful that instinct is, and how difficult it is to overcome. If I'm being completely honest, I see some circumstances surrounding Valiente's life and death that could lead to that assumption. It appeared to me at least that she was dealing with some serious issues...issues that no teenager should ever have to deal with IMO. Between her struggles to find acceptance regarding her sexuality, the theft allegations, and the possibility that there was abuse happening within the home, I could understand if Valiente simply became overwhelmed by it all and made a tragic choice. That being said however, I also take comicbook's point about how even those who are troubled can end up the victims of a homicide. I can easily see how someone who is young and at a particularly vulnerable time in her life could be targeted by a predator looking to exploit the situation.

Ultimately, I just didn't see enough factual information to make a conclusion either way quite frankly. It only further complicates matters that I also find myself wondering why the possibility of a tragic accident seems to have been dismissed to some extent. I can easily see how a young lady who may have taken off in an emotional moment becoming anxious and disoriented after getting turned around in a dark, secluded area. I can also easily see her shoes and select outerwear being knocked off by the sheer force of impact. Shades of the Russell Evans case if you will. I guess at the end of the day, with so many possibilities to sort through, I can understand why her family would struggle so much to find closure here...if such a thing is even possible.

Wait... people think Cindy James committed suicide???

Wow.



There is plenty of evidence to point that way, just as there is plenty to point the other way, hence why the case is so interesting.

Why do you think it not possible that Cindy committed suicide?

Tiffany's friend said that she stole her friend's debit card and ran up purchases on clothes and food. She said specifically that the shoes she was wearing that night were bought with the stolen card. In their opinion, she felt guilty about it and that's why she removed them. The same could be said for the shorts, but her friend did tell me that the crime scene was extremely graphic.



Also - when they mentioned that she was a lesbian...they seemed to just haphazardly toss that giant piece of information in there like it was nothing. I was like, “Wow. Did they already talk about this or something and I missed it?

I grew up in Monmouth County, New Jersey. Speaking from my experience, the trains rain on a predictable schedule each day. I haven’t lived there in 15 years, but I do remember the trains ran frequently, like every 15-30 minutes or so.

It’s highly likely she knew the approximate train schedule since they were so close to the tracks. Or, it could have been a split decision she made while wandering in the woods. IE “Here comes a train, jump.”

Hi -- I grew up I'm Manalapan. Mind being more specific on where you grew up in good ol' Monmouth County?

Now, back to the UM discussion.

Since people cannot be bothered to look into things outside of the narrative that is fed to them:

* She stole her friend's debit card. Her friend told her parents about it the night she disappeared. Tiffany denied it. Her mother started to search her car and she noticed Tiffany trying to slyly hide the card in her back pocket. When the mother went inside to get the father, Tiffany was gone.

* A K-9 handler was brought in because her parents were insistent that someone picked her up in a vehicle. The K-9 handler did not know anything about the locations other than where the Valiante residence was. The K-9 led the handler on a 3.2 mile trek that ended at the "general area (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22088148-bloodhound)" of where she was hit by the train.

* CPS had been called to the family home multiple times in the year prior. A teacher noticed bruises on Tiffany's arm and her mother admitted to punching her during an argument the two were having.

* Two days after a therapy session between Tiffany and her mother, Tiffany's grandfather died. She started skipping classes and stole money from her parents.

* When she came out (6 months before her death) to her parents, her mother told her she was "just going through a phase". A friend of Tiffany's described her as "lonely" and feeling distant from her parents preceding her death.

* A different friend said that Tiffany felt she could "never fit in" and was sad about life in general. Other friends said that she had cut her wrist and leg on two separate occasions.

* Her parents initially accepted the suicide ruling. That changed when her mother found her shoes and head band.

* The man who claims to have overheard the three boys talking about Tiffany being forced to strip at gunpoint got several details wrong when recounting the story to the police: he said the friend who had her card stolen confronted Tiffany at the graduation party in front of a crowd, and said that the friend never reached back out to the family after Tiffany's death. He was implying that this friend was one of the ones who had forced her to strip at gunpoint (the segment says one male and two females). The only problem is that the friend spoke at Tiffany's funeral, brought over mementos to Tiffany's parents after the funeral, and then was coldly kicked off of their property two weeks later.

* All three of the teenagers were interviewed separately, and all of them were baffled about the story told by the man from the convenience store. All of them had airtight alibis for the night of Tiffany's death.

* The friend who confronted Tiffany about the stolen card left Tiffany's house with her mother. Tiffany's mother called the unnamed friend with the stolen card after Tiffany left and told her that Tiffany "ran away". The friend (stolen card) rushed back to Tiffany's home with two other friends to help look for her. Even though it's implied from the story given by the convenience store worker (one male, two females) that the stolen card friend would have been the only possible person to want to have caused her harm on that specific night, this friend wouldn't have had the time to do it. She was back at Tiffany's house minutes after the confrontation and helped look for her. The train impact did not happen yet.

* The segment completely glossed over the recent breakup and made it seem like she was completely fine about it. Her friends descriptions of her in the weeks prior to her death would seem to indicate otherwise.

* The biggest piece of evidence favoring suicide is that the train conductor himself witnessed her walk in front of the train. He did not see anyone else. She wasn't lying down on the tracks a la Henry & Ives. This man would have zero incentive to lie about what he saw.

Other than all of the above, yeah, why are so many people speculating suicide?!


Excellent post and bullet points of all the facts that were glossed over, youre a real MVP

There’s definitely a trend on this site where people stubbornly refuse to accept the mysterious which is bizarre because this is Unsolved Mysteries! This episode laid out a great case for murder, yet posters on here are disrespecting this girl’s memory by accusing her of being a suicide. This kind of complacency is how murderers get away with it.



Lol, most seem to just be going with the facts and evidence? As far as I can tell the only stubborn and over emotional person on this board is you for the most part. You block anyone that goes against your opinion and even threaten horrible things to others that disagree with you not to mention you appear to have an unhealthy obsession with denying facts in female suicide cases (this one, cindy james, etc)

Wait a minute...am I remembering incorrectly, or did the segment indicate that Valiente's missing shoes and clothing items were found neatly piled some distance from the scene? Because if that IS the case, then it helps address my concerns about the accident possibility being dismissed. For some reason I was picturing a scenario like in the Evans case where the young man was literally knocked out of his sneakers by the force of the collision. But if the missing items were located in a neat pile some distance away, then that seems to indicate a deliberate act IMO. Whether that act was performed by herself or a third party would still be unknown, but the act itself would seem to discount the possibility of someone lost who either fell or wandered into the path of the oncoming train.

Hi -- I grew up I'm Manalapan. Mind being more specific on where you grew up in good ol' Monmouth County?

Now, back to the UM discussion.

Hello fellow New Jersian! Born and raised in Wall Township

Wait a minute...am I remembering incorrectly, or did the segment indicate that Valiente's missing shoes and clothing items were found neatly piled some distance from the scene? Because if that IS the case, then it helps address my concerns about the accident possibility being dismissed. For some reason I was picturing a scenario like in the Evans case where the young man was literally knocked out of his sneakers by the force of the collision. But if the missing items were located in a neat pile some distance away, then that seems to indicate a deliberate act IMO. Whether that act was performed by herself or a third party would still be unknown, but the act itself would seem to discount the possibility of someone lost who either fell or wandered into the path of the oncoming train.

The shoes were found in a pile, at least that’s what her mother claims she found. My thinking on this is that she ditched her shoes along the way to the train and a passerby found them and placed them somewhere to be found.

The shoes were found in a pile, at least that’s what her mother claims she found. My thinking on this is that she ditched her shoes along the way to the train and a passerby found them and placed them somewhere to be found.

Or it very well could have been that she herself put the shoes there. I remember reading that the shoes were an item she purchased with her friend’s credit card, so that could have lead to her guilt and desire to ditch them.

As I'm first watching the episode and Tiffany initially disappears, it struck me as odd that EVERYONE was blowing up her phone as depicted. Did that strike anyone else as odd, or am I the oddball here? The messages that I'm paraphrasing but were like, "PLEASE JUST COME HOME" and "WE LOVE YOU COME HOME" seemed like a massive over-reaction to an eighteen year old who presumably took off to clear her head, throw a temper tantrum, etc. In my personal experience, I've texted folks like that, using that language. Those folks were suicidal. That was the first red flag for me.




No, you are not an oddball and that is an excellent observation. Am I 100% certain it's suicide? Maybe not. Beyond reasonable doubt? Probably. More likely than not? Absolutely.

Others have pointed out the deficiencies in UMs presentation but I just want to take a minute to whine about how bloated and meandering the Netflix UM series are. You could comfortably tell these stories in 10-15 minutes without losing any of the material facts (get rid of those endless drone shots for a start). Why do they make the stories 50 minutes? I don't understand- we're all mystery aficionados and WE find ourselves bored...

Lol, most seem to just be going with the facts and evidence? As far as I can tell the only stubborn and over emotional person on this board is you for the most part. You block anyone that goes against your opinion and even threaten horrible things to others that disagree with you not to mention you appear to have an unhealthy obsession with denying facts in female suicide cases (this one, cindy james, etc)

:lol:

Some people seem to think we should judge these cases solely on what Unsolved Mysteries chooses to show us in the episode, where-as the most fascinating part of the discussion is often researching what they left out (which typically leads to an obvious conclusion, and not the one the show wants us to come to).

As I'm first watching the episode and Tiffany initially disappears, it struck me as odd that EVERYONE was blowing up her phone as depicted. Did that strike anyone else as odd, or am I the oddball here? The messages that I'm paraphrasing but were like, "PLEASE JUST COME HOME" and "WE LOVE YOU COME HOME" seemed like a massive over-reaction to an eighteen year old who presumably took off to clear her head, throw a temper tantrum, etc. In my personal experience, I've texted folks like that, using that language. Those folks were suicidal. That was the first red flag for me.


This, right here.

I'm not saying she DID. But if that many people are sending those kind of messages when someone goes out of contact for an hour or so...that's over someone they think is going to harm themselves.

Suicide. The minute they (the show and the parents) glossed over TiffanyÂ’s sexuality, I got a vibe that it was a touchy subject. I wonder if the Sisters were banned by the parents from talking. Highly unusual for a sibling not to talk.

While I didn't agree with the medical examiner interviewed on many items, she did bring up the trauma of the student engineer, which I appreciated. I do think that his inconsistencies were entirely rooted in this trauma and all he had witnessed that night. I believe he would have noticed a body on the tracks had she been simply placed there by a killer prior to impact. Dark area or not, the train has headlights and a body laying there would have been visible (similar to the boys on the track case). And there is not one report from either engineer of her laying there prior to impact. Either standing or diving.

I feel terrible for her family, but I don't think there was a crime here. I think this young woman saw the train as her way out, as heartbreaking as that sounds.

Some people seem to think we should judge these cases solely on what Unsolved Mysteries chooses to show us in the episode, where-as the most fascinating part of the discussion is often researching what they left out (which typically leads to an obvious conclusion, and not the one the show wants us to come to).

I've noticed this trend with regards to True Crime in general. The story that these shows tell you is the "truth" to some people. Any deviation from that story or narrative is wrong because the show would have mentioned that if it were true. We have millions of people believing that a man who had a woman's charred remains in his burn barrel, mere feet away from his trailer, her blood in his garage, her vehicle with his DNA on his property, whose nephew confessed to help raping and murder said woman, was framed by a corrupt police department who conspired to frame him over a lawsuit. The scariest part is that these people vote.

As I'm first watching the episode and Tiffany initially disappears, it struck me as odd that EVERYONE was blowing up her phone as depicted. Did that strike anyone else as odd, or am I the oddball here? The messages that I'm paraphrasing but were like, "PLEASE JUST COME HOME" and "WE LOVE YOU COME HOME" seemed like a massive over-reaction to an eighteen year old who presumably took off to clear her head, throw a temper tantrum, etc. In my personal experience, I've texted folks like that, using that language. Those folks were suicidal. That was the first red flag for me.

This is the main thing I hit on when watching the episode. Why was her dad's voicemail that desperate sounding? I knew and suspected that more happened than we were being lead to believe.

I've noticed this trend with regards to True Crime in general. The story that these shows tell you is the "truth" to some people. Any deviation from that story or narrative is wrong because the show would have mentioned that if it were true. We have millions of people believing that a man who had a woman's charred remains in his burn barrel, mere feet away from his trailer, her blood in his garage, her vehicle with his DNA on his property, whose nephew confessed to help raping and murder said woman, was framed by a corrupt police department who conspired to frame him over a lawsuit. The scariest part is that these people vote.

THIS!!! So much this! It's amazing how little people think for themselves.

THIS!!! So much this! It's amazing how little people think for themselves.

Shout out to one of my favorite posters...Hambone2421!! :wave:

Actually, I pretty much like all y'all, but my grandpa's nickname for my dad has always been "Hambone", and I've always thought it was so damn cute, lol. In fact, it might be the only thing I've ever found endearing about my grandpa. (He and I have never been particularly close, lol). As such, everytime I see one of Hambone2421's posts, it warms my heart just a bit.

This is a completely rational take. LMAO how has this troll not been banned by now?

That person isn't a troll. They believe everything they say. In the real world that is sometimes called schizophrenia. Just sayin'.

Hi -- during the segment, doesn't the advocate for Tiffany's family mention how the death certificate had the date of death as July 17? I thought she died on July 12?

Also, a family member of Tiffany's mentioned how the NJ Transit Police Department's wheelhouse is not investigating scenes such as this one. I don't know how credible that claim is, but I do know that it is possible that the NJ Transit Police Department may not have sent its best team to the scene of Tiffany's death, especially if it was helping out with another larger train accident investigation that happened approximately two months before in nearby Philadelphia (see this link: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/us/amtrak-train-derails-crash-philadelphia.html)

I still have not decided if this is murder or suicide, but after finally getting a chance to view the segment I thought I would mention the above two things.

Hi -- during the segment, doesn't the advocate for Tiffany's family mention how the death certificate had the date of death as July 17? I thought she died on July 12?

That seems far more likely to be a clerical error (a typo, etc.) than anything nefarious IMO.

Suicide and it's not even close. No Mystery here they are just trying to manufacture some mystery.

Absolutely. I'm actually surprised that there is even that much of a debate. I will say I have never seen a family so devastated by the loss of a child that my heart went out to them especially the father. But this is easily in the over thirty year history of watching "Unsolved Mysteries", one of the most clear cut cases of suicide the show has ever profiled. Yes there are some questions such as how could've Tiffany walked those tracks in the pitch black dead of night without incurring any lacerations to her feet from nails, glass, gravel or debris. Her manner of suicide is also "generally speaking" inconsistent with how women tend to end their lives but in this case it's not beyond the scope of reality to assume that her manner of suicide was chosen to inflict as much pain as possible to those who she wanted to hurt by leaving such a gruesome death scene as possible.

I'm not going to get into it much beyond that because quite frankly it's already all been said on this thread but the fact that Tiffany's friends went from emotions of grave concern on the night of her death to not one even agreeing to participate in the "Unsolved Mysteries" segment six years later tells me one of two things. First all of her friends believe that she committed suicide and therefore did not wish to participate in a segment that cast her death as a homicide or alternatively they volunteered to participate but once their opinions on Tiffany's death did not fit into the narrative of the segment, they were informed that their participation was not warranted.

This is a suicide. An incredibly tragic and heartbreaking case with a family that tugged at my heart strings but it's suicide nonetheless and quite frankly I wonder why "Unsolved Mysteries" profiled it.

Just finished watching it. It was clear that it was either a suicide or an accident. I think the possibility of an accident and that she was freaking out in the walk which caused could be high. But it was never a murder and it's shameful how that lawyer tried to make a case about it. Also kind of weird that for all the talk about she being alright and not suicidal, a lot o the texts shown by UM looked like freaking out about that possibility and trying to calm her down. I feel the production in UM has these types of hidden eggs to not freak out the families or the people covering the case a la that crazy nutjob who said he loved her wife but had her ashes stuck in the box they were mailed in.

That being said nothing is as projecting as a post here about this being "Unsolved Mysteries" and people going against the board because people are applying common sense. Nothing shows more than the real problem they have is that it not being "mysterious" enough a la Elisa Lahm case.

That seems far more likely to be a clerical error (a typo, etc.) than anything nefarious IMO.

Agree, I am simply thinking that an "advocate" would have pointed out that for the cameras and/or taken steps to correct it by now.

An analysis of the case. Make of it what you will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrjjTrlJ6V4

An obvious suicide, in my opinion.

Yes there are some questions such as how could've Tiffany walked those tracks in the pitch black dead of night without incurring any lacerations to her feet from nails, glass, gravel or debris.

Coming into this totally blind to the segment, the lack of injuries to her feet really doesn't mean all that much to me. I'm fairly confident I could walk along railroad ballast without tearing my feet to shreds.

I think the lack of any response from the police & the conflicting statements from those on the train makes it hard to know. We have no idea whether what the family are claiming is reality, or just parents that cannot accept reality.

The one thing I did think was looking at the photos of her feet the parents/family were saying they looked in good shape & no way could she have walked the tracks, but to me they looked like they were cut up pretty bad & in bad shape.

I think the biggest things in favour of the murder theory is her clothes being found so far away from the scene & that she vanished so quickly-she surely had to have gotten into a vehicle?

The one thing I did think was looking at the photos of her feet the parents/family were saying they looked in good shape & no way could she have walked the tracks, but to me they looked like they were cut up pretty bad & in bad shape.

Exactly. I couldn't believe they were trying to convince us her feet were clean by showing that picture.