I found a list of whisperings about oodles of celebrities, a few from Lucyland. Interesting stuff. Here's what it says about Lucy, Desi, and some other Lucyland celebs:

Arnaz, Desi. Philandering SOB, but Lucille Ball loved him, so I
shouldn't say any more. Alcoholic. Married to Lucille Ball; linked with Ginger Rogers, Cesar Romero, and Lana Turner.

Ball, Lucille. Long-suffering wife of Desi Arnaz; smart, smart
woman and a great comedienne. Alcoholic, and not a good mother to her children. Linked with Milton Berle, Henry Fonda, Peter Lawford, Robert Mitchum, George Raft, George Sanders, and Orson Welles.

Bankhead, Tallulah. Omnisexual, and enjoyed it. Hilarious
raconteur & source of many great stories. Drug user. _All About Eve_ was reportedly about her. Linked with John Barrymore, Sr., Robert Benchley, Leonard Bernstein, Marlon Brando, Yul Brynner, Winston Churchill (!), Gary Cooper, Douglas Fairbanks, Jr, Greta Garbo, Billie Holliday, Libby Holman, Beatrice Lillie, Hattie McDaniel, Burgess Meredith, Edward R. Murrow, and Johnny Weissmuller.

Berle, Milton. Sour, unpleasant man. Notorious for stealing other
comedians' jokes/gags. Legendary implement. Once "dated" Marilyn Monroe; also linked with Lucille Ball, Theda Bara, Veronica Lake, and Aimee Semple Macpherson.

Boyer, Charles. Committed suicide following the death of his wife.
Linked with Katharine Hepburn and Hedley Lamarr.

Burnett, Carol. Reportedly a Closet L______. So adorable most
men would marry her anyway. Reported long-term relationship with Julie Andrews.

Burton, Richard. Drunkard. Closet case. Abused women. Funneled
money to IRA. Two marriages to Elizabeth Taylor. Also linked with Zsa Zsa Gabor, Ava Gardner, Jean Simmons, Susan Strasburgh, Barbra Streisand, Lana Turner and Raquel Welch.

Crane, Bob. Closet queen. Bludgeoned to death by a man he picked up (which was a habit of his); his death caught on film (Crane liked to tape his conquests).

Crawford, Joan. "Slept with every male star at MGM except
Lassie." Vain and unpleasant personality. Horrible to her children.
Broke into Hollywood by starring in porn films. Abused by her parents. Alcoholic. Clean freak. Linked with Dorothy Azner, Jean-Pierre Aumont, Yul Brynner, Jackie Cooper, Kirk Douglas, Douglas Fairbanks, Jr, Henry Fonda, Glenn Ford, Clark Gable, John Garfield, Jackie Gleason, Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, JFK, Tyrone Power, Martha Raye, Barbara Stanwyck, Franchot Tone, Spencer Tracy, John Wayne, Johnny and Weissmuller.

Davis, Jr, Sammy. Bisexual. Linked with Linda Lovelace, Marilyn
Monroe, Kim Novak and Jean Seberg.

Fonda, Henry. Cold man in person, even to his family. Linked with
Lucille Ball, Joan Crawford, and Bette Davis.

Holden, William. Drunk. Linked with Audrey Hepburn, Grace
Kelly, Jackie O, Stephanie Powers, Barbara Stanwyck, and Shelley
Winters.

Hope, Bob. Given to telling racist/sexist/homophobic jokes when
the camera isn't running or when he's in front of soldiers. Can't die soon enough.

Hudson, Rock. Friend of Dorothy. Reportedly had a long-time
relationship with Jim Nabors. Abused by his parents. Linked with Joan Crawford, Elizabeth Taylor and Mamie Van Doren.

Lawford, Peter. Drunk. Drug user. Acted as panderer for JFK.
Raised as a girl until the age of 9; abused as a child by his nanny.
Linked with Lucille Ball, Dorothy Dandridge, Ava Gardner, Judy Garland, Rita Hayworth, Kim Novak, Nancy Davis Reagan, Elizabeth Taylor and Lana Turner.

Martin, Dean. Drunk. Used Mob connections to break into the
music biz. Linked with Jacqueline Bisset, Catherine Deneuve, Marilyn Monroe, and Lana Turner.

Merman, Ethel. Dyke/bisexual. Marriage to Ernest Borgnine.
Linked with Judy Garland.

Nabors, Jim. Gay as an Ungaro Spring Frock. Reportedly had long-time relationship with Rock Hudson.

Newhart, Bob. A genuinely nice and modest man.

Price, Vincent. Gay; his wife was a L______.

Reagan, Nancy Davis. The eminence grise in the Reagan White
House. Used astrology to determine policy decisions. Slept with Frank Sinatra in the White House itself. Personally pro-choice but kept quiet and supported anti-choice actions for her husband's career. Former "Hostess Girl"/prostitute for the studios when they needed to recruit someone; reported to give the best head in Hollywood, in her day. Was pregnant when she married Ronnie. Linked withYul Brynner, Clark Gable, Peter Lawford, and Spencer Tracy.

Reagan, Ronald. Absent-minded, evil-by-omission man. Betrayed
his fellow Hollywood stars to red-baiters. Homophobe and racist. Rapist. Linked with Doris Day, Nancy Davis Reagan, and Jane Wyman.

Rogers, Ginger. Linked with Desi Arnaz, Fred Astaire, Lew Ayres,
George Gershwin, Cary Grant, Howard Hughes, Burgess Meredith, David Niven, Jimmy Stewart and Rudy Vallee.

Romero, Cesar. FOD. Linked with Desi Arnaz and Tyrone Power.

Rooney, Mickey. Conceited. Born-again Christian. Claims to have
sodomized Elizabeth Taylor. Links to Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe,
Norma Shearer, Gene Tierney, and Lana Turner.

Sinatra, Frank. Now-doddering misogynist. Never graduated from
high school. Pals with organized crime figures and made men; used his mob connections to get his role in _From Here To Eternity_. Mistreater of countless woman. Marriages/affairs to Lauren Bacall, Jacqueline Bisset, Angie Dickinson, Marlene Dietrich, Patty Duke, Mia Farrow, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Ava Gardner, Judy Garland, Grace Kelly, Shirley Maclaine, Marilyn Monroe, Kim Novak, Victoria Principal, Nancy Reagan (while in the White House, no less), Jill St. John, Elizabeth Taylor, Lana Turner, Gloria
Vanderbilt, Tuesday Weld and Natalie Wood.

Taylor, Elizabeth. Helped to ruin Richard Burton.
Ambiguous/weird relationship with Michael Jackson. Linked with Carl Bernstein, Montgomery Clift, Eddie Fisher, Malcom Forbes, George Hamilton, Rock Hudson, Peter Lawford, Victor Mature, Mickey Rooney, and Frank Sinatra.

Wayne, John. Conservative; sometimes showed a refreshingly
modest outlook & sense of humor, though. Alcoholic. Reported
crossdresser. Had a weak spot for Latinas. Racist. Linked with Clara Bow, Joan Crawford, Marlene Dietrich, Paulette Goddard, and Carmen Miranda.

Welles, Orson. Unhappy man who deserved better in life. Didn't
treat his women well, though. Linked with Lucille Ball, Dolores Del Rio, Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Rita Hayworth, Eartha Kitt, Marilyn Monroe, and Gloria Vanderbilt.

:rotflmao: That's hilarious! Where'd you find that?

Originally posted by dawsongirl
:rotflmao: That's hilarious! Where'd you find that?

I found it by accident while looking for something else. It was in the alt.showbiz.gossip newsgroup and was posted there in 1997. It's a very, very long list with lots and lots of names. I only posted the ones here that are related to Lucy.

By the way, in reference to your other post, at age 22 you're a youngster, too! :)

This place is everything i was told and MORE! That was a riot, especially enjoyed the ones about the Reagans!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
This place is everything i was told and MORE! That was a riot, especially enjoyed the ones about the Reagans!

Me too! ;) :rotflmao:

Did anybody see that report that Reagan armed Iraq when they were at war with Iran, and the USA sent bacteria samples that were later used on the Kurds, and now we're all afraid they will be used on us. It was after the hostage crisis and they wanted Iraq to beat Iran, so they sent arms and helicopters and everything and now we're all trying to stop this madman, but it all started with Reagan, for a change. Sorry about that, back to Lucy!

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Davis, Jr, Sammy. Bisexual.

was he really!?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Did anybody see that report that Reagan armed Iraq when they were at war with Iran, and the USA sent bacteria samples that were later used on the Kurds, and now we're all afraid they will be used on us. It was after the hostage crisis and they wanted Iraq to beat Iran, so they sent arms and helicopters and everything and now we're all trying to stop this madman, but it all started with Reagan, for a change. Sorry about that, back to Lucy!

I know Reagan armed Iraq for its war on Iran. I didn't know he also armed them with bacteria, but that doesn't surprise me. It kind of reminds me of how Bush Sr. armed the Taliban. This kind of thing is the reason we're hated around the world. U.S. foreign policy sucks. We go in and support undemocratic regimes (like we continue to do in Egypt, for example), as long as they're giving us oil or something else that helps make us rich. But then when those regimes do something against us, all of a sudden our government (in their propoganda war) takes notice of the atrocities they commit against their own people, as if they never knew about them before when they were giving them money and weapons. It's so hypocritical. If we're going to represent ourselves as some beacon of democracy for the world to follow, we should never be supporting undemocratic regimes. But unfortunately, that's what happens when you have a government that allows big business to influence its policy decisions.

Was Desi really involved with Ginger Rogers and Lucy with Orson Welles? Never heard those ones before! Half of this stuff is probably just BS, but very entertaining to read! Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Was Desi really involved with Ginger Rogers and Lucy with Orson Welles? Never heard those ones before! Half of this stuff is probably just BS, but very entertaining to read! Thanks for posting.

Yeah, I think some of it is pure gossip and speculation. Like the Bob Crane thing, I don't thing there's ANY evidence he had any kind of physical relationship with that man who killed him. All those videos that were found of him having sex were with women. Somebody challenged this guy on that point in a follow-up post and he acknowledged he had his facts mixed up. Once I saw that he conceded that, I grew more skeptical of some of his other "facts" though I do know some of these things are true, and some of the unproven gossip is corroborated by other sources.

Lucy knew Des had an affair with Ginger, i know that one for a fact, remember the lunch Lucy had where she invited all these female stars and she addressed them saying Sheila MacRae was the only one there who hadn't slept with Desi. They never mention if it was held in the backyard to accomodate ALL OF THEM!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy knew Des had an affair with Ginger, i know that one for a fact, remember the lunch Lucy had where she invited all these female stars and she addressed them saying Sheila MacRae was the only one there who hadn't slept with Desi. They never mention if it was held in the backyard to accomodate ALL OF THEM!

Good grief! If I were Lucy, there's no way I'd wanna have lunch with anyone who had slept with my husband behind my back! I wonder how they all reacted to that comment? I'm amazed at how tolerant she was...in "Lucy in the Afternoon" I remember that she had said that if she stayed mad at all the girls who had had an affair with Desi, there wouldn't be any nice girls left in Hollywood to be friends with (or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact quote)! I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have been quite so forgiving. Imagine working side-by-side with your spouse's ex-lover -- but it seems like they did that a lot! Like with Betty Grable in the LDCH, who Lucy knew Desi had an affair with shortly after they were married. Or Al Hall, who directed them in "The Long Long Trailer". She dumped him for Desi, but I guess there were no hard feelings -- unless he was really desperate for a job! I think it would be a little awkward to say the least. I don't know how Lucy put up with that cheating crap for so long. I guess love will do that to you.

LOl wow! Im so relieved nothing bad was said about my Bob Newhart!!!!!!:D And Mrs.Reagan!!:eek: lol

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy knew Des had an affair with Ginger, i know that one for a fact, remember the lunch Lucy had where she invited all these female stars and she addressed them saying Sheila MacRae was the only one there who hadn't slept with Desi. They never mention if it was held in the backyard to accomodate ALL OF THEM!

I doubt if her backyard was even big enough to accomodate all of Desi's conquests! But wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall and see the looks on their faces when Lucy made that comment? Ouch! But then again, Lucy's husbands also had to deal with Lucy's former lovers. Desi worked with the likes of Alexander Hall and Orson Welles. Gary Morton was actually chummy with Peter Lawford. And a very reliable source (Jane Fonda) claims there was something going on between Lucy and Henry Fonda on the set of YOURS, MINE AND OURS. And that tradition seems to have continued on to the next generation. One of those Lucy/Desi bios produced by Lucie Arnaz and Laurence Luckinbill (I can't remember which one) included the involvement of Lucie's former husband, Philip Vandervort. People, I guess, are more forgiving and tolerant in Hollywood than in most places.

Thanks for the interesting tidbit about Lucy's luncheon. Yours truly,

Jane (as in Jane, the former evangelical Christian who has since become enlightened and proudly holds the title Jane, "the big bad atheist") :)

Ah, Jane, i'm so sorry to hear that! I believe in God, a force, that oversees everything! I'm catholic but i don't practice, i just believe there has GOT to be something else after we die, i refuse to believe this is it. When my grandmother died, she had raised me but i wasn't allowed to go visit her in the hospital so the morning of the funeral she appeared at the foot of my bed, i was ten, so today i think it must have been a dream, or my imagination, but i so want to believe that she came to say goodbye till we see each other again some day when i die. I'm happy Lucy believed in God, though she kept adding not in an afterlife. Back to Lucy, yes i too was shocked that they all worked together after they had had sex, but this is Hollywood here where everybody sleeps with everybody anyway. Wasn't it Humphrey Bogart who came to a party and said they all looked so good, no wonder they all **** each other! That's nothing compared to what goes on these days, if we knew the half of it about our favorite stars i have a feeling they might not be our favorites any more!

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have been quite so forgiving.

Me either. Call me a bitch, but NO MAN will do that to me and walk off scot-free.

*bitch slap*

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Jane (as in Jane, the former evangelical Christian who has since become enlightened and proudly holds the title Jane, "the big bad atheist") :)

LOL!

Former....believer in God....current....believer in God. I'm just a Christian who's never really read the bible and doesn't go to church, just like the rest of my family. That's just me.

I would kind of like to make some amends here. First off to JaneTVFan, I didn't call you the big bad atheist. I did see someone jumped in on our little debate here and did call you that.(Even though I did like his points on the Bible). I didn't mean for this to get that far. Just as you feel insulted by the sitcoms person calling you a name I felt insulted when you called fundamentalist Christians nutty people who are closed-minded naive people. Being insulted I let you know that and from there we got a interesting thread going. In conclusion I would like to practice the teaching of Jesus I hold true and offer the olive branch here, hope we can continue to discuss Lucy in a good civilized manner and hope we(and everyone else on here) never says anything bad about a group of people knowing there might be someone who identifies themselves in that group on here.

Originally posted by oldshows
In conclusion I would like to practice the teaching of Jesus I hold true and offer the olive branch here, hope we can continue to discuss Lucy in a good civilized manner and hope we(and everyone else on here) never says anything bad about a group of people knowing there might be someone who identifies themselves in that group on here.

Yes, let's all remember that. Name calling is childish and most of us, though maybe young, are not children.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Ah, Jane, i'm so sorry to hear that! I believe in God, a force, that oversees everything!

For the record, let me explain that I am not an atheist. That word is something that was attributed to me yesterday by someone else on this board. Like Lucy, I am agnostic, meaning that I question the existence of God, rather than completely reject it out of hand. Just as no one has been able to prove the existence of God, no one has been able to prove God does not exist. So I am unwilling to take that leap and say there is no God. What I do most definitely reject, however, is the fundamentalist Christian version of who God is. Having been fully immesed in that theology myself for a number of years, and then, after years of struggle, having found my way out of it -- it was really like a cult, and I had to move far away from that community in order to think for myself and eventually break free of it -- I have personally concluded that that particular theology is erroneous and also very dangerous.

If you've read Lucy's life story, you will know there was a time she was forced to live with her fundamentalist Christian step-grandmother. Vivian Vance's mother was also a fundamentalist Christian. Both of these women experienced first-hand the damage that theology can cause. Vivian Vance wound up in therapy all her life because of her mother. I saw this sort of damage, too.

During the time I was caught up in that movement, I saw a number of people who were severely hurt by the fundamentalist Christian teachings, most notably homosexuals and women who were emotionally and/or physically abused by their husbands (they believed divorce was only permissible in cases of adultery). I saw these people have their spirits completely destroyed. The homosexuals were forced to believe that their most natural, inate feelings were evil and from the devil. And those women felt compelled to stay in marriages where they were belittled, denied respect, in some cases physically abused, and had their self-respect completely stripped away.

The God I was taught to believe in was essentially a menacing bully who coerces people with threats and bribes into believing in him. HE THREATENS TO FRY THEM IN HELL IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE AND BRIBES THEM WITH PROMISES OF ETERNITY IN HEAVEN IF THEY DO BELIEVE. And once they are within his reach, he controls them by prohibiting them from becoming "yolked" with non-believers who may influence their thinking. Under U.S. law, this version of God would be considered a felon.

This theology teaches that no other religion or theology is valid. I remember my minister telling us that Mother Teresa, the Pope, and the rest of the Roman Catholic Church were all going to hell. Any theology that puts itself in the position of being the ONLY valid theology and does not respect other beliefs is a danger to society. This is just how fundamentalist Islam views itself. To the extent Lucille Ball accepted religion, it was through the teachings of Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (who my fundamentalist minister also said was going to hell).

If there is a God, I cannot possibly believe the fundamentalist Christian version of who he is. But if that is who he is, then fine, send me to hell. Spending eternity in hell with Lucy and other like minded people would have to be better than spending eternity with someone like that.

Originally posted by oldshows
I would kind of like to make some amends here. First off to JaneTVFan, I didn't call you the big bad atheist. I did see someone jumped in on our little debate here and did call you that.

I know it wasn't you who called me that. I didn't indicate you said that.

Originally posted by oldshows
Just as you feel insulted by the sitcoms person calling you a name I felt insulted when you called fundamentalist Christians nutty people who are closed-minded naive people. Being insulted I let you know that and from there we got a interesting thread going. In conclusion I would like to practice the teaching of Jesus I hold true and offer the olive branch here

Perhaps I should have chosen my words differently. In saying those things, I was in a sense even insulting my own former self given my fundamentalist Christian background. I apologize for the lack of tact. And I know how almost impossible it is to extricate oneself from that world once drawn into it. I will accept the olive branch if you will retract the insensitive statements you made about homosexuals, especially comparing them to Hitler and Osama bin Laden.

Oh my God! He actually compared gays to Osama and Hitler, i think that would be more appropriate for Reagan who sentenced millions of gay and straight people to die of aids because of his policies. We all know how Reagan was supported by these Jerry Falwell type people who actually blamed Sept 11th on gays and feminists. All in the name of God, some things never change,do they? I've never been very happy to be here in Quebec because of the constant threat of seperatism, but at least people here have this live and let live attitude, wouldn't it be great if everybody did. I have no gay friends and don't know too many gay people, but since i discovered the only people who were there for Lucy at the end were gay, it has made me become more compassionate about their plight, i remember when Reagan was elected, some office friends mentionned the US was going backwards instead of forward, and that was true, it seems like it's happened again with Bush in the White House. Don't we EVER learn, we consider the terrorists ******** idiots when they have such oppressive regimes, but we still have some people with the same mentality among us here. I believe in God, not in Heaven and Hell, i ask God for things and i get them, i try to live a good life and it isn't always easy, i try to help my fellow man and be a decent human being, that should be enough, spreading hate like this is wrong, God loves all his children, even the misguided jerks who fly planes into buildings killing innocent women and making children lose their parents, instead of using soldiers. This is a very complicated subject, and very interesting, i too don't wish to offend anyone, i just wish these people would use LOVE instead of hate, and the people on both sides here of course!

First off, I didn't compare homosexuals to Hitler and Bin Laden. I did say I felt their actions were sinful and that sin does exist because of Satan and proof of Satan would be the existance of good people like Mother Teresa and evil people like Hitler and Bin Laden. I meant to show good vs. evil to God vs Satan and did not mean for that statement to mean homosexuals were evil like Hitler and Bin Laden. I think Rosie O'Donnell is a good person even if I don't with a certain aspect of her lifestyle. Heck, Rosie even said that she believed in God and Jesus but doesn't believe God put restrictions on love unlike myself. I hate you grew up in a family that believed only their faith was going to heaven. My grandmother is the same way. I personally go along with my parents and believe there will be many faiths in heaven. The Bible even says that. As long as you believe in your heart you are trying to live as God wants you to, you'll go to heaven. Does that mean I'll agree with and condone every aspects of every different faith. No. Will I condemn them to hell for it. No. So I'm sorry if I did condemn homosexuals. Thanks for accepting my olive branch and I'm glad we'll be able to move on and put this behind us.

[QUOTE][i] God loves all his children, even the misguided jerks who fly planes into buildings killing innocent women and making children lose their parents, instead of using soldiers. This is a very complicated subject, and very interesting, i too don't wish to offend anyone, i just wish these people would use LOVE instead of hate, and the people on both sides here of course!

Yes, I too believe God loves every single person that has ever lived regardless of what they have done. I do disagree with you on heaven and hell. I do believe there are both. I think evil people willl go to hell. I certainly don't think Hitler is in heaven with all the innocent Jews he killed.

I didn't know you weren't an atheist. But I hate to hear your agnostic. Maybe you should believe in God and then formulate your own opinions about him and try to find what he wants you to believe in and find how he wants you to live instead of opening up the possibility of a big piece of matter just happening that doesn't really make any sense. Doing this will also open up the possibility of knowing that someone higher than you has everything under control even when you don't and the belief of heaven which should comfort everyone.

Please forgive me, i'm a Lucy fanatic, not an expert on religion, these are just opinions as we will all find out when we die, not before. I said that wrong, i believe in heaven, as living on this earth is the hell part, people and sometimes whole nations starving while the rich go on with their lives and don't care. Homeless people and people dying of cancer, especially children, i could go on but won't. I don't believe in hell, i believe we are put on earth to learn, and to love everybody around us, we are not here to judge or to influence other people, we should care about our own lives before we attack anyone else. I think when those terrorists died they found out they went about it the wrong way, and will have to live again, and hopefully this time they will get it right. I refuse to think there is actually a hell where Hitler is burning, i'd rather think Hitler had to come back as a Jew, but hey, that's just me, i don't have the mental capabilities to discuss religious matters, i'm just a Lucy fan who wants to enjoy life and make people happy discussing the legacy of the greatest woman who ever lived. I'm curious of what you think of Lucy then, with all her escapades, and her being way ahead of her time with her behavior all her life. I for one, think she's watching over us and thinking how much love and happiness she gave the world!

Would you all do me a favor? If you want to keep this religion discussion up, either take it to Chit Chat or PMs. This board is not the place for it.

Thank you.

I second the motion, it's called sitcomsonline not the PTL club!

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Would you all do me a favor? If you want to keep this religion discussion up, either take it to Chit Chat or PMs. This board is not the place for it.

Thank you.

I hadn't planned on debating religion anymore anyway. I just wanted to make sure amends were made so we could go back to discusses Lucy again. Now that they are made, I'm ready to move on and put this behind me as I'm sure everyone else is.

Originally posted by sitcoms
I didn't know you weren't an atheist. But I hate to hear your agnostic. Maybe you should believe in God and then formulate your own opinions about him and try to find what he wants you to believe in and find how he wants you to live instead of opening up the possibility of a big piece of matter just happening that doesn't really make any sense. Doing this will also open up the possibility of knowing that someone higher than you has everything under control even when you don't and the belief of heaven which should comfort everyone.

As I stated before, I went through years of internal struggle and introspection before coming to the point where I am now. I was a believer initially but decided to remove myself from an atomosphere where I could not think freely or listen to different perspectives. The church I was in stressed that we should not be "yolked" with non-believers and should have regular communion with believers. This was really a way to keep our beliefs in their theology strong and to keep us from being too influenced in our thoughts by the world and from really spending time trying to find life answers with an open mind. Your comment about "knowing that someone higher than you has everything under control" is one of the very points that led me move on from where I was. I came to realize that people have three basic reasons why they seek out religion: they want to believe someone else is in control; they are afraid of death and want to believe they will live beyond death; and they want the complicated questions about life, the world, the universe, people, answered for them. Religion provides all of this. For me, these are insufficient reasons to put my faith in any religion.

I am a very positive and accomplished person. I know my strengths and I am very cognizant of my weaknesses. I am strong in spirit. I do not have any serious vices. I don't drink and I don't do drugs. I can take care of myself in good times and bad. So I do not need to make believe there is some higher power taking care of me when times get rough.

For awhile, I was freaked out at the thought of dying and everything being over forever and ever. But I have come to terms with that. I recognize that I didn't exist before I was conceived in my mother's womb, so why should I assume I will exist after I die? Dying to me is no different than falling into a deep sleep where you don't dream, and then not waking up. We won't know the difference, so that doesn't scare me anymore. And I'm not going to let some religion intimidate me into believing something by telling me I'll fry in hell if I don't believe. Besides, why should we assume we are any different than any other living creature. Animals, like people, have hearts, lungs, brains, blood, skin, intestines. We all live, we all die. The only real difference is in brain size. People just want to believe they are otherwise superior.

Finally, I like facing challenging questions and attempting to get to the bottom of them and figure them out. Almost always when I debate a serious issue with a fundamentalist Christian, all they can do is say "Well the Bible says . . . " and start quoting scripture to me. I don't want to hear scripture, I want to see brain activity. These folks want a reference for answers to everything so they don't have to exert the energy to think and figure out thse answers themselves. That's not sufficient for me. I want to look at issues from different perspectives, not just one perspective, so I'm better informed. The better informed you are, the more sources you seek for answers, the better your chances at getting the right answer.

I've had the great pleasure through the years of becoming close friends with people of many different nationalities and faiths. I've been close to Hindus, Shintos, Jews, and Muslims, among others. The thing I've most learned through these associations is that Christians (contrary to what they preach and what they tell one another) do not have a step up on all on other faiths. I've encountered non-Christians who are every bit as giving and loving (often more so) as fundamentalist Christians. The more I've lived and learned, travelled and experienced, the greater the diversity of people I've known, the less compelled I've become to accept Christianity as THE only way. I would be foolish to do so at this point. In fact, I don't think any faith is superior to others. That's another reason I'm at this point of not being able to attach myself to any particular faith.

What would be a good reason for me to buy into a particular faith? I'm not entirely sure. But I would at least need some sort of evidence that that particular faith is true, and so far, I haven't seen any religion that can do that. They seem to be little more than devices for people to evade their fears rather than face them.

Originally posted by oldshows
I hate you grew up in a family that believed only their faith was going to heaven.

This wasn't my family that believed that. I first got involved with fundamentalist Christians when I was in my late teens/early twenties. By the standards of my fundamentalist church and friends, my family, even though they were churchgoers, had not been saved and were therefore going to hell. Interestingly, the minister of one of the fundamentalist churches I went to embezzled money from a nursing home the church started and skipped town with those old folks' money. With spiritual examples like him, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, and others, you have to question their claims that Jesus changes people. My "unsaved" family would never stoop to the kind of crap characters like that pull. Those folks were one part of the reason I started looking beyond the fundamentist Christian churches and moved on to explore Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, and ultimately on to non-Christian faiths and beyond.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
but at least people here have this live and let live attitude, wouldn't it be great if everybody did

May I please say "amen!" to that?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
but at least people here have this live and let live attitude, wouldn't it be great if everybody did

Incidentally, I think that pretty much sums up Lucille Ball's attitude about life. She married a Cuban, then a jew, was friends with (and employed) African Americans, foreign nationals, gays. And she accepted and tolerated them all.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Would you all do me a favor? If you want to keep this religion discussion up, either take it to Chit Chat or PMs. This board is not the place for it.

Thank you.

Sorry I didn't read further down until now. Subject closed.

That's the key, Lucy taught us many life lessons, if we just bothered to find them!

"Well the Bible says . . . " and start quoting scripture to me. I don't want to hear scripture, I want to see brain activity. These folks want a reference for answers to everything so they don't have to exert the energy to think and figure out thse answers themselves. That's not sufficient for me. I want to look at issues from different perspectives, not just one perspective, so I'm better informed. The better informed you are, the more sources you seek for answers, the better your chances at getting the right answer.


I would say the Bible is brain activity. First off, being able to proclaim all the Bible prophesies in the Bible that have come true or are coming true today, that is brain activity. I recommend reading "Are We Living in the End Times" by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins for a reference. Also, watch Jack Van Impe Presents. It is a 30 minute show that comes on once a week that explains current events into Biblical prophesies. I can assure Jack uses his brain. He has over 14,000 Bible verses committed to memory!!! And can quote them with ease. He had a debate with one of your "college professor brains" once about whether the Bible or science was correct. This debate was scheduled for 1 hour. It last 12. The professor gave up once Jack inleashed a barrage of 400 Bible verses that showed him up. Of course the truth of God will defeat you. Oh, we are just like animals aren't we. I mean my dogs plays on the computer, reads books, builds nuclear weapons. I just hate some of his follow dogs are evil and fly planes into buildings and in the past have tried to exterminate the Jewish dogs just because they were God's chosen people. In fact yesterday, my dog even took me for a walk and let me eat some of the table scrapes!! You get my drift. Here's my big question, if there is a God, why can't he be all powerful. You said your agnostic, there might be a God, might not. Well, if there is one, why can't he be all powerful like you said he can't. No, the must be a perfect scientific answer even if it has no common sense basis or has worse odd of happening than me winning the lottery about 10 straight times. Most of the ideas like evolution came from ancient Greek philosophers who were trying in vain to come up with some explaination. Read about Anaimander. He was a Greek who lived around 700 B.C. He proposed that life evoluved and originated from the sea. Isn't that today's theories. Today's scientific were just looking to grab something and found a 2500+ year old idea. Finally, in an earlier post you said if God does exist and is so closed minded and threatening you would rather live in hell than heaven with him. Do you really know what you saying? No, I think not. If he does exist and is all powerful, why can't he create a moral code? Why shouldn't we live by that code just as a sign of respect and thanks for creating us. But no, the just as the Devil rebelled, he has blinded many people who will one day see. Unfortunately, when they do see, it will be looking at a God that isn't going to you his approval.:angryfire

Originally posted by sitcoms
I would say the Bible is brain activity. First off, being able to proclaim all the Bible prophesies in the Bible that have come true or are coming true today, that is brain activity. I recommend reading "Are We Living in the End Times" by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins for a reference. Also, watch Jack Van Impe Presents.

Listen, let's end this nonsense. Fifteen years ago, I was spouting off the same crap you are now and driving people crazy like you're doing to me. I've already been where you are now. Back in those days I was devoting my life to studying the Bible and attending missions conferences with the intention of becoming a foreign missionary. I attended church at least twice a week, and was a member of two other religious organizations that met weekly. I was even the leader of a Bible stufy. I know where you're coming from; I've been there already. But I've also been many other places, travelled the world and had many fulfilling and enlightening, deep relationships with people of diverse races, religions, nationalities, and sexual orientations. I know what I knew years ago, and more importantly, I've learned and experienced an abundance of things since then. Nothing you say is impressing me; I've heard it all before. I've read it all before. I've even said it all before. I moved forward with my life long ago and have no intention of moving backwards and back onto a path I know with all my heart is bogus and misguided. Going back to that point with all I know now would be impossible. So just save your breath and let's get back to talking about Lucille Ball. Thanks.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I was even the leader of a Bible stufy.

Please excuse the typo, that should be Bible *study*.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
That's the key, Lucy taught us many life lessons, if we just bothered to find them!

For someone who dropped out of school, she was a pretty sharp cookie. Of course, she was an avid reader and endeavored to learn new things. For that, I respect her.

Lemme see if i can list some of her lessons! Work hard and eventually you will be rewarded. Take care of your family and friends and they will be there for you your whole life. You have to be self sufficient as you cannot always count on others to help you. Be charitable, maybe one day, you'll be the recipient. Put money aside for a rainy day. Without your health, you ain't got nothin! and many more. . .

I didn't know she was a school dropout. I knew she went through some tough times with her father dying when she was really young. This proves only in America can you over come all your obstacles and become the most beloved television star of all time.

FOR THAT, I RESPECT HER! Does that mean what i think it means?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JaneTVFan
[B]I moved forward with my life long ago and have no intention of moving backwards and back onto a path I know with all my heart is bogus and misguided. Going back to that point with all I know now would be impossible.

I'm sorry to hear your a backslid Christian. Of course I don't know if backslid is the word for it. Maybe you was never a Christian to begin with. I know when I allowed God in my life I could really feel his presence. It was like goosebumps, only 10 times worse. And if you really were a Bible quoting person like you said, then you should know the Bible is God's word and the truth, you should really know that all those prophesies are coming true today. One sign, Israel. Enough said. I just think your in denial for some reason. Of course Satan is a powerful presence, if you believe in him. Of course I don't see why you wouldn't. Why else is there good an evil. Evil didn't "evolve" into humans I hope you know. I hope you find the correct path again. Your life will be much more fulfilling and maybe you won't be bitter about what ever has happened in your life.

Originally posted by lucy2
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JaneTVFan
[B]I'm sorry to hear your a backslid Christian. Of course I don't know if backslid is the word for it. Maybe you was never a Christian to begin with. I know when I allowed God in my life I could really feel his presence. It was like goosebumps, only 10 times worse. And if you really were a Bible quoting person like you said, then you should know the Bible is God's word and the truth, you should really know that all those prophesies are coming true today. One sign, Israel. Enough said. I just think your in denial for some reason. Of course Satan is a powerful presence, if you believe in him. Of course I don't see why you wouldn't. Why else is there good an evil. Evil didn't "evolve" into humans I hope you know. I hope you find the correct path again. Your life will be much more fulfilling and maybe you won't be bitter about what ever has happened in your life.

I KNEW someone would say this. According to fundie Christians, if someone claims to have been a Christian then later moves away from Christianity, they couldn't have ever been a Christian at all! I've heard this so many times before. I've even been accused of being Satan incarnate. It all gets back to what I initially said about fundamentalist Christians, that they go nuts whenever confronted with something that threatens their beliefs. They HAVE to believe that they are right about EVERYTHING they believe and that everyone else is WRONG. They can't accept it, won't accept it, and go into denial about anything that contradicts their beliefs.

Yes, I know that feeling you talk about of getting goosebumps and high emotion when accepting God into your life. That's what got me off on that wrong path to fundamentalist Christianity in the first place. Fundamentalist Christians confuse these emotions with the Holy Spirit. When I became a Christian, I had never felt those particular emotions before. But in the years since, upon finding my true self, I have managed to cull those same emotions in other ways, not that I live my life now searching for emotional highs. I don't.

Again, as I said before, I have lived in many places, I have lived in different countries, I have investigated different faiths and had intimate friendships with people of different faiths, nationalities, races, sexual orientations, etc. I have expanded my reading and interests beyond just the Bible and Christianity, endeavoring to gain greater insights and much broader perspectives than what is provided in a fundamentalist Christian world. In the process, upon opening my mind up and broadening my horizons, I have found that certain aspects of fundamentalist Christian teachings are unacceptable for me, and in light of what I now know, IMPOSSIBLE to accept. I am far more enlightened about the world, people, other religions, and humanl struggles, than I ever was when I was a Christian. I have seen first-hand the emotional damage and anguish that fundamentalist Christianity can do to certain of its followers. I made a very unenlighted decision to become a fundamentalist Christian, but I made a very enlightened, long thought-out, decision that Christianity is no longer for me. This wasn't some spontaneous decision, but something I struggled with FOR YEARS. I put far more energy and effort into that decision than in to the emotion-driven decision to become a fundamentalist Christian.


I have had a far, FAR more rewarding, fulfilling and happy life since I moved on from fundamentalist Christianity. When I was a Christian and prayed for things, like other fundie Christians, when I got what I prayed for, I credited God with answering my prayers. But when I didn't get what I prayed for, it was because "it was not God's will" to get that. It was a typical cop-out answer that fundamentalist Christians have for things they can't explain. Now I've come to understand that sometimes in life sh** happens. Other times, good things happen. It makes NO difference at all whether you're a Christian or not.

I am a much, much more secure, self-assured, HAPPY person now than I ever was when I was a Christian. There is NO reason to go back. The thought of going back, apart from being IMPOSSIBLE given what I know now about life, people and the world, is a depressing thought. I want no part of it. I am NOT in denial, as you suggest; rather, I am in ACCEPTANCE. I fully accept what I know in my heart is true and what I know is not true. I CANNOT and WILL NOT follow something I believe is false and damaging. I will never again put blinders on, ignoring certain realities in life in order to follow some religion. I want truth. And for me, fundamentalist Christianity is not truth. You fundamentalists believe every word of the Bible is true, no matter how ridiculous. For example, according to the Bible humans have only been in existence for only about 5000 years. That's so ridiculous! The evidence against that is OVERWHELMING. But fundamentalist Christians put blinders on and close their mind to any scientific evidence that contradicts their beliefs. And they fully embrace any scientific evidence that corroborates their beliefs. And then there are those characters in the Bible who lived several hundred years. Puleez! This is such fantasy. No more fantasies for me.

I have moved on with my life. I have found "the correct path" and going back to fundie Christianity is THE WRONG PATH. I would be a FOOL to go back to that. I would have to ignore everything I've learned and experienced in the last 15 years to go back, every truth I've discovered. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. That would be foolish. I have found my happiness, I have found my fulfillment. I don't need what you have. If it works for you, fine. Good for you. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME! AND IT CANNOT WORK FOR ME EVER AGAIN. DEAL WITH IT!

Who are you anyway, lucy2? I see you've only posted one time. So I suspect you are either "oldshows" or "sitcoms" trying to hide the fact that you're the same person. Why are you hiding under this new name? Are you trying to create the illusion that it's just me against an army of fundamentalist Christians? Or are you trying to trick Dawsongirl?

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Who are you anyway, lucy2? I see you've only posted one time. So I suspect you are either "oldshows" or "sitcoms" trying to hide the fact that you're the same person. Why are you hiding under this new name? Are you trying to create the illusion that it's just me against an army of fundamentalist Christians? Or are you trying to trick Dawsongirl?

There's some strange stuff going on around here. "Lucy2" just registered on sitcomsonline today. What's more, "sitcoms" has only posted a total of 6 times and just registered on sitcomsonline two days ago, so yet another brand new member here jumping into this thead. Or is he/she? Hmm, VERY interesting! I'm beginning to suspect a case of multiple personalities here.

I've been reading the posts to the religion threads, but I kept quiet for the most part. Religion is just one of those topics that has many beliefs. You have people that believe and some that don't believe. I'm sure each person has a good reason for believing or not believing and its up to everybody just to respect it, ya know? It would make me look like an ass if I tried to make someone that didn't believe in God, try to preach to them that they are going to go to hell and that they better turn around and beg God to forgive them. I hate whenever I see cases like that, and personally I think its just wrong. A person has a mind of their own and they can think what they want.

I can see this religion topic isn't going anywhere because of the fact everybody has such different beliefs and opinions. jmo

Originally posted by Jenny
I've been reading the posts to the religion threads, but I kept quiet for the most part. Religion is just one of those topics that has many beliefs. You have people that believe and some that don't believe. I'm sure each person has a good reason for believing or not believing and its up to everybody just to respect it, ya know? It would make me look like an ass if I tried to make someone that didn't believe in God, try to preach to them that they are going to go to hell and that they better turn around and beg God to forgive them. I hate whenever I see cases like that, and personally I think its just wrong. A person has a mind of their own and they can think what they want.

I can see this religion topic isn't going anywhere because of the fact everybody has such different beliefs and opinions. jmo

Thanks for your comments, Jenny. You've said it quite well. And as "Splain" said, and as I think Lucy did, people should just live and let live.

Originally posted by Jenny
I've been reading the posts to the religion threads, but I kept quiet for the most part. Religion is just one of those topics that has many beliefs. You have people that believe and some that don't believe. I'm sure each person has a good reason for believing or not believing and its up to everybody just to respect it, ya know? It would make me look like an ass if I tried to make someone that didn't believe in God, try to preach to them that they are going to go to hell and that they better turn around and beg God to forgive them. I hate whenever I see cases like that, and personally I think its just wrong. A person has a mind of their own and they can think what they want.

I can see this religion topic isn't going anywhere because of the fact everybody has such different beliefs and opinions. jmo

I also agree, religion is just something that has so many different branches and so many different beliefs, that is foolish to try to push your beliefs on others. And I agree that we should just live and let live. :)

There's some strange stuff going on around here. "Lucy2" just registered on sitcomsonline today. What's more, "sitcoms" has only posted a total of 6 times and just registered on sitcomsonline two days ago, so yet another brand new member here jumping into this thead. Or is he/she? Hmm, VERY interesting! I'm beginning to suspect a case of multiple personalities here. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hey, its not me. I've already offered my olive branch here and have moved on. If I really wanted to argue I would do it as myself but I don't want to. I have my beliefs and you yours. So its not me.

Originally posted by oldshows
Hey, its not me. I've already offered my olive branch here and have moved on. If I really wanted to argue I would do it as myself but I don't want to. I have my beliefs and you yours. So its not me.

I accepted the olive branch and I'm not accusing you, but SOMEbody here is being a coward.

I think I've already said it once, but thanks for accepting again.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Who are you anyway, lucy2? I see you've only posted one time. So I suspect you are either "oldshows" or "sitcoms" trying to hide the fact that you're the same person. Why are you hiding under this new name? Are you trying to create the illusion that it's just me against an army of fundamentalist Christians? Or are you trying to trick Dawsongirl?

Can a person not just happen to come on here at a ironic time. My goodness. I mean hey, If I can't just happen to come on here, I guess some big hunk of matter can't "just happen" to blow up and create the universe and life can't "just happen" to come out of no where. Of course, these didn't just happen. Of course, I do happen to be sitcoms and what's it matter if I did use two screennames. It doesn't!! And who is Dawsongirl and why in the heck I'm a trying to trick her? Anyways, enough of that. So the earth can't be 6000 years old. Well, exactly how can you tell the age of anything that old. You would have to assume carbon dating has a constant rate of decay for its half life to be 5000 years. Who's been counting that long to make sure? Secondly, carbon decays at a MUCH FASTER rate when under pressure for water. So if it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and the world stayed under water for months afterwards, you can say goodbye to your dating. And of course there's lots of flood stories in ancient literature from China to Greece. Lots of evidence to support the flood happened. Finally, the people who presents all this "evidence" are the same ones who come out with all the "theories" that have NO COMMON SENSE basis to them. And yes, those goosebumps are the Holy Ghost. Don't tell me what my goosebumps are and aren't. But I'll tell you what, I'll leave you alone if you answer me a few questions to help me understand your position better. So your agnostic. Does that mean you are saying that COULD POSSIBLY be a God? And if there JUST HAPPENS to be a God, do you believe he COULD be all-powerful? If you COULD choose to have one true, would you choose for there to be a God or no God? If there is a God and heaven, when you die do you want to go to heaven and be with God? Do you want to believe deceased loved ones are in heaven?And finally, if there is a God, how do you think he feels about your positions? Please go ahead and answer these questions. I think it will help me understand you better. If you do, like I said, both of me will stop bothering you.

Originally posted by lucy2
Can a person not just happen to come on here at a ironic time.
My goodness. I mean hey, If I can't just happen to come on here, I guess some big hunk of matter can't "just happen" to blow up and create the universe and life can't "just happen" to come out of no where.

Yeah, right. Whatever.

Originally posted by lucy2
Of course, these didn't just happen. Of course, I do happen to be sitcoms and what's it matter if I did use two screennames. It doesn't!!

The better question is why you would create this second screen name and not tell anyone you and "sitcoms" are the same person?

Originally posted by lucy2
And who is Dawsongirl and why in the heck I'm a trying to trick her?

You tell me.

Originally posted by lucy2
Anyways, enough of that. So the earth can't be 6000 years old. Well, exactly how can you tell the age of anything that old.

{snip all the fundie B.S.}

Lots of evidence to support the flood happened. Finally, the people who presents all this "evidence" are the same ones who come out with all the "theories" that have NO COMMON SENSE basis to them.

You are indeed brainwashed.

Originally posted by lucy2
And yes, those goosebumps are the Holy Ghost. Don't tell me what my goosebumps are and aren't.

LOL!

Originally posted by lucy2
But I'll tell you what, I'll leave you alone if you answer me a few questions to help me understand your position better.

I'm not answering your questions for two reasons. First, in my previous posts I have either answered these questions already or you can simply go back and read my comments and easily glean from them what my answers would be. Besides, what difference does it make to you what my position is anyway? Why should you care? You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I believe. Enough said. And second, I have already stated that I am done with this topic. Dawsongirl (as if you don't know who she is) has asked that this topic be closed. Out of respect for her, it should be closed. Everything that needs to be said has already been said anyway. So get over it.

dawsongirl is the moderator who asked a long time ago to stop the religion talk. everytime someone tries to end the discussion, you seem to be coming back and starting it back up again. i don't agree with everything Jane has said and I don't agree with everything you have said, but i think that you are trying to push your beliefs on others a little too much. just drop it. this is a Lucy board, so lets just get back to talking about lucy! you believe what you want to believe, jane will believe what she believes. To each their own. lets just end this before Dawsongirl has to close the thread! :)

ok, well i was writing my post as Jane was writing hers so mine is kinda redundant, since Jane beat me to the punch! lol. just disregard! :happyface

No, you are the one who is indeed brainwashed. And yes, I know there is a Holy Spirit. There is a reason I don't cry when I hear the Eagles song "Hotel California" but cry every time I hear "Amazing Grace" something I'm glad God has. And he is willing to give that amazing grace to if you ask. There is a reason I asked those questions. There are some you didn't answer in any of your post over the last few days. For example you didn't answer these 4 questions at all: If you COULD choose to have one true, would you choose for there to be a God or no God? If there is a God and heaven, when you die do you want to go to heaven and be with God? Do you want to believe deceased loved ones are in heaven?And finally, if there is a God, how do you think he feels about your positions?
I know why you didn't either. Of course you would choose for there to be a God, of course you would choose to go to heaven and be with God if both existed, I know for a fact you want to believe deceased loved ones are in heaven. And finally you know if the Bible is true, God might not approve of scientific theories. By answering these questions honestly you would be weakening all of your positions and that's why you refused to answer them. And don't try to come back and say you wouldn't answer them like this either especially the deceased loved ones question. Everyone person wants to be reunited with loved ones in heaven oneday. Well, I don't think arguing anymore is going to help anything. We're just be going around in circles forever(or until Jesus returns or we die and find out the truth first). So I plan on leaving no more post. I can tell no one on here wants to read anymore. So have fun going back and talking about Lucy and GOD BLESS!!!!!!:D

Originally posted by lucy2
No, you are the one who is indeed brainwashed. And yes, I know there is a Holy Spirit. There is a reason I don't cry when I hear the Eagles song "Hotel California" but cry every time I hear "Amazing Grace" something I'm glad God has. And he is willing to give that amazing grace to if you ask. There is a reason I asked those questions. There are some you didn't answer in any of your post over the last few days. For example you didn't answer these 4 questions at all: If you COULD choose to have one true, would you choose for there to be a God or no God? If there is a God and heaven, when you die do you want to go to heaven and be with God? Do you want to believe deceased loved ones are in heaven?And finally, if there is a God, how do you think he feels about your positions?
I know why you didn't either. Of course you would choose for there to be a God, of course you would choose to go to heaven and be with God if both existed, I know for a fact you want to believe deceased loved ones are in heaven. And finally you know if the Bible is true, God might not approve of scientific theories. By answering these questions honestly you would be weakening all of your positions and that's why you refused to answer them. And don't try to come back and say you wouldn't answer them like this either especially the deceased loved ones question. Everyone person wants to be reunited with loved ones in heaven oneday. Well, I don't think arguing anymore is going to help anything. We're just be going around in circles forever(or until Jesus returns or we die and find out the truth first). So I plan on leaving no more post. I can tell no one on here wants to read anymore. So have fun going back and talking about Lucy and GOD BLESS!!!!!!:D

You are either ignorant, stubborn, illiterate, or all three.

Originally posted by lucyfan1983
ok, well i was writing my post as Jane was writing hers so mine is kinda redundant, since Jane beat me to the punch! lol. just disregard! :happyface

Your post isn't really redundant. It's perfectly fine and to the point. No need to take it back.

Originally posted by lucy2
Of course, I do happen to be sitcoms and what's it matter if I did use two screennames. It doesn't!!

Don't you think that's just a little devious to be using a psudonym? I do.


And who is Dawsongirl and why in the heck I'm a trying to trick her?

Like lucyfan1983 said, I'm the big bad moderator and I really don't take too kindly to people trying to rekindle flames that are trying to die. Besides, it's rude to come in here and yell at people that have been here longer than you.

oldshows, sitcoms, and lucy2 are clearly the same person - same isp - access.northstate.net and a computer at wfu.edu

end of story - thread closed...

update: for the record, after this post was made - oldshows came forward in an e-mail to me to say she is the daughter of sitcoms/lucy2