Most everyone is familiar with the Monkees scandal, and I've often heard people defending them by saying "in that era everyone was doing it" (using studio musicians to create their records). And to be honest, I was always a bit skeptical that it was as wide spread as some people insist.

But, watching these re-runs of the Ed Sullivan Show, with the judgement and perceptions of an adult, I am starting to believe, in a big way.

I've observed the Mamas and Papas a few times now, and this past Sunday's rendition of "Dedicated to the One I love".....there is just no way those four people where singing such full-bodied choral accompaniment AND singing the main lyrics as well. I'd really like to know how many humans have their voice on that particular track....gotta be at least a half dozen on top of the 4 stars on stage.

And, it just doesn't seem very likely that they brought in a half dozen support vocalists to stand off stage and sing support. So, that leaves "canned" tracks, with the group essentially fronting itself. And of course there is the reality of the electric guitar licks, while the only instrument on stage is John Phillips' acoustic.

Add into that the flute in the follow up number "Creeque Alley", and again you have to wonder if they brought in a flutist to stand off stage and blow into a mike?

The cost to move around all these support staff for what essentially are bit parts, would seem to outweigh practicality.

Some of it was obviously dubbed, forcing me to wonder just how far that might go?

Has me seriously wondering if they were lip synching over recorded music. They claim that is never the case on the Sullivan show....but I don't see how it could be anything else.

"Lip synching" might be the wrong term. They might very well have been singing into dead microphones, "Barney Fife" style.

I also found it noteworthy that Sullivan tolerated the lyrics "McGuinn and McGuire couldn't get no higher"
yet raised such a big stink with Jim Morrison over "Light my fire".

Perhaps since the Mamas and Papas came first, their presentation was what poisoned the well for future performances?

Good topic. So, there's a difference between lip-syncing on stage and not even recording your own albums. The first may be a practical matter: there's no way a singer's voice will hold up on tours of hundreds of performances, and sooner or later, his/her voice will sound like garbage. The later, not singing on your own albums, is totally selling out.


I think the scandal with the Monkees is that they weren't originally even playing their music in the studio, let alone on stage. I have read, though, that their third album was actually recorded by them.

Having watched a lot of 1960s acts on YouTube, it's very clear a lot of them are not actually singing live. For example, Bobby Pickett's "live" performance of The Monster Mash on American Bandstand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNuVifA7DSU) was clearly lip-synched: it's identical to the recording, he's got no microphone, and there are no female back-up singers on stage. It's like they didn't even make the effort to hide the lip-sync.

You mentioned the Mamas and the Papas, and while they were a talented group, they clearly were lip-syncing many performances: the "live" version is identical to the studio version, an impossibility. This performance of California Dreamin' is hilarious... Michelle starts singing into her banana (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlwimUxUME)! :lol: But still an amazing studio band.

Starting in the early 1980s, Enya became amazing studio musician, but her "live" performances (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOiP6b0ji8) are always lip-synced: it's not possible for a live voice to do the choir-like voice replication that is possible in a studio.

In the late 1980s, I remember the huge Milli Vanilli scandal, when they were caught lip-syncing on stage when the record skipped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvPXmkYMHFg), and it was soon revealed they hadn't sung a note on their entire album, either.

Fast-forward to the 1990s: Real McCoy recorded four albums, but it turned out the voice on the record wasn't either of the pretty girls dancing on the stage. Vocalist Karin Kasar never received any royalties for the use of her recordings (https://www.eurokdj.com/search/eurodb.php?name=Kasar_Karin), two of which, "Run Away" and "Another Night", reached top 3 status in the US. How this ever was allowed to happen, I do not know. For a band called "Real" McCoy, it's sad that so much was faked.

Ace of Base sang live on stage for six years, and lead singer Linn was able to effortlessly belt out ten hit singles in a row, including live performances of "Wheel of Fortune", "All That She Wants", "Happy Nation", "The Sign (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yv1Wt_A6Qw)", "Living in Danger", "Lucky Love", and "Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRozUesEPU)", but once her sister Jenny took over lead vocals from Linn in 1997, nearly all "live" performances became lip-sync: Jenny just didn't have the vocal talents Linn had: not the contralto voice, and not the vibrato. It's estimated the record companies lost $300 million without Linn's voice. Linn agreed to sing a studio version of 1999's "Everytime it Rains" in a single take; the song hit #22 in the UK with no music video and no performances from Linn, who refused to appear on stage, except as a keyboardist, standing in the background. With Linn limiting her public appearances to one per album, Jenny ended up lip-syncing some of the band's biggest hits by herself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Cx8-dj0y8)

Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Mariah Carey, Hillary Duff, and Ashlee Simpson have all had bad lip-sync fails on camera, but I don't doubt they sang on their studio albums.

Good topic. So, there's a difference between lip-syncing on stage and not even recording your own albums. The first may be a practical matter: there's no way a singer's voice will hold up on tours of hundreds of performances, and sooner or later, his/her voice will sound like garbage. The later, not singing on your own albums, is totally selling out.


I think the scandal with the Monkees is that they weren't originally even playing their music in the studio, let alone on stage. I have read, though, that their third album was actually recorded by them.

Having watched a lot of 1960s acts on YouTube, it's very clear a lot of them are not actually singing live. For example, Bobby Pickett's "live" performance of The Monster Mash on American Bandstand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNuVifA7DSU) was clearly lip-synched: it's identical to the recording, he's got no microphone, and there are no female back-up singers on stage. It's like they didn't even make the effort to hide the lip-sync.

You mentioned the Mamas and the Papas, and while they were a talented group, they clearly were lip-syncing many performances: the "live" version is identical to the studio version, an impossibility. This performance of California Dreamin' is hilarious... Michelle starts singing into her banana (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlwimUxUME)! :lol: But still an amazing studio band.

Starting in the early 1980s, Enya became amazing studio musician, but her "live" performances (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOiP6b0ji8) are always lip-synced: it's not possible for a live voice to do the choir-like voice replication that is possible in a studio.

In the late 1980s, I remember the huge Milli Vanilli scandal, when they were caught lip-syncing on stage when the record skipped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvPXmkYMHFg), and it was soon revealed they hadn't sung a note on their entire album, either.

Fast-forward to the 1990s: Real McCoy recorded four albums, but it turned out the voice on the record wasn't either of the pretty girls dancing on the stage. Vocalist Karin Kasar never received any royalties for the use of her recordings (https://www.eurokdj.com/search/eurodb.php?name=Kasar_Karin), two of which, "Run Away" and "Another Night", reached top 3 status in the US. How this ever was allowed to happen, I do not know. For a band called "Real" McCoy, it's sad that so much was faked.

Ace of Base sang live on stage for six years, and lead singer Linn was able to effortlessly belt out ten hit singles in a row, including live performances of "Wheel of Fortune", "All That She Wants", "Happy Nation", "The Sign (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yv1Wt_A6Qw)", "Living in Danger", "Lucky Love", and "Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRozUesEPU)", but once her sister Jenny took over lead vocals from Linn in 1997, nearly all "live" performances became lip-sync: Jenny just didn't have the vocal talents Linn had: not the contralto voice, and not the vibrato. It's estimated the record companies lost $300 million without Linn's voice. Linn agreed to sing a studio version of 1999's "Everytime it Rains" in a single take; the song hit #22 in the UK with no music video and no performances from Linn, who refused to appear on stage, except as a keyboardist, standing in the background. With Linn limiting her public appearances to one per album, Jenny ended up lip-syncing some of the band's biggest hits by herself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Cx8-dj0y8)

Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Mariah Carey, Hillary Duff, and Ashlee Simpson have all had bad lip-sync fails on camera, but I don't doubt they sang on their studio albums.


I was shocked when Fox News compared Ashlee Simpson's Lip Synching Fiasco to Milli Vanilli's Lip Synching Fiasco. Milli Vanilli were lip synching to other People's music. Ashlee was lip synching to her own music. Totally different.

I was shocked when Fox News compared Ashlee Simpson's Lip Synching Fiasco to Milli Vanilli's Lip Synching Fiasco. Milli Vanilli were lip synching to other People's music. Ashlee was lip synching to her own music. Totally different.

Yeah, it really is a different thing.