Today the Rough Housing episode was on and it got me to thinking about something I never thought of after seeing this episode at least a dozen times. Anyway, Mrs. Garrett lays into Blair for calling out Cindy based on "appearances." She says a few times that Blair was jumping to conclusions because of "appearances." That's not entirely true. Blair formed her opinions about Cindy based on appearances AND because of Cindy's actions. Blair called Cindy "strange" because she was "pawing" the other girls and saying "I love you." I'm not agreeing with Blair at all, just saying that her opinions were formed on more than just "appearances" like Mrs. Garrett was saying.

Maybe appearances wasn't the right word, I think Mrs. Garrett, as you said, meant jumping to conclusions

Maybe appearances wasn't the right word, I think Mrs. Garrett, as you said, meant jumping to conclusions

And nowadays, her advice to Cindy would be considered AWFUL.

No! Don't dampen Rough Housing for me! :lol:

Just kidding, lol...but I think it's probably just that "appearances" was the root of the problem, and Mrs. Garrett got right down to that root. :nod: After all, Blair did try to sway Mrs. Garrett with, "You've seen her, Mrs. Garrett. She looks more like a boy than a girl!"

Would Blair have reacted the same if she'd seen an "All-American girl" like Sue Ann hugging and touching girls instead? Who knows. But Cindy's appearance went against Blair's beliefs of gender conformity (just like Artemis's masculine attributes and chasteness went against Aphrodite's belief in the "natural" order of gender in ancient Greek mythology), and that was an easy "open door" for her to further close in on Cindy for her bully-like behavior.

And nowadays, her advice to Cindy would be considered AWFUL.

Yeah but it happened 40 years ago


The only appearance I could think of is the tomboy look that Cindy had

And nowadays, her advice to Cindy would be considered AWFUL.

Yes, they wrote Mrs. Garrett ignoring the fact that people are different and gay people exist. Not every kid is a cookie cutter "girl" or "boy".

The only appearance I could think of is the tomboy look that Cindy had

Yeah, they went all out for that tomboy look with the football jersey and the hair piled up underneath a baseball cap.

Yes, they wrote Mrs. Garrett ignoring the fact that people are different and gay people exist. Not every kid is a cookie cutter "girl" or "boy".

Yep, nowadays, that kind of advice would be considered very ignorant and offensive. 40+ years ago, a lot of people ignored gay people or people questioning their sexuality like Cindy.

Yep, nowadays, that kind of advice would be considered very ignorant and offensive. 40+ years ago, a lot of people ignored gay people or people questioning their sexuality like Cindy.

It's funny because 40 years ago, that episode was considered way progressive, and is now considered regressive. But 40 years ago, they couldn't have encouraged a teenager to actually be gay on network TV. Heck, they couldn't even say the word in relation to Cindy... she had to be "strange". The words we used, in my area, back in the early 1980s, was "that way". As in, "S/he's... 'that way'. So stupid! :lol:

It's funny because 40 years ago, that episode was considered way progressive, and is now considered regressive. But 40 years ago, they couldn't have encouraged a teenager to actually be gay on network TV. Heck, they couldn't even say the word in relation to Cindy... she had to be "strange". The words we used, in my area, back in the early 1980s, was "that way". As in, "S/he's... 'that way'. So stupid! :lol:

"That way"?? Haha! :lol:

"That way"?? Haha! :lol:

Yeah, as if even saying 'gay' was sinful. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yeah, as if even saying 'gay' was sinful. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

or gasp... "homosexual." :crazy:

or gasp... "homosexual." :crazy:

Oh, that's instant shunning. :lol:

Mrs. Garrett saying that Blair was jumping to conclusions solely on "appearances" when it was clear that Blair formed her opinions based on appearances AND actions and Mrs. Garrett's lame advice to Cindy = Mrs. Garrett came off as a huge ding dong in this episode... JMO

Mrs. Garrett saying that Blair was jumping to conclusions solely on "appearances" when it was clear that Blair formed her opinions based on appearances AND actions and Mrs. Garrett's lame advice to Cindy = Mrs. Garrett came off as a huge ding dong in this episode... JMO

Lol, I can see what you're seeing (especially by 2022 standards) though it was Cindy's appearance that gave Blair the "excuse" (to her) to engage in hurtful actions.

And while the episode didn't feature a Ding Dong, it did have a cupcake. :lol:

You couldn't have a 14 year old be gay back in 1979. There was already lots of people upset at SOAP and Three's Company for throwing around the gay or homosexual words and they were adults. Certainly Julie Anne was open to it. Funny thing was that Lisa was totally ignorant as to what that show was about while Julie Anne, Molly, and Mindy did know what it was about.

The girl who looked most like a boy was Molly.

Would Blair have reacted the same if she'd seen an "All-American girl" like Sue Ann hugging and touching girls instead? Who knows. But Cindy's appearance went against Blair's beliefs of gender conformity (just like Artemis's masculine attributes and chasteness went against Aphrodite's belief in the "natural" order of gender in ancient Greek mythology), and that was an easy "open door" for her to further close in on Cindy for her bully-like behavior.

I really like this parallel between the show and ancient Greek mythology. Congratulations, amico :wave:

It's funny because 40 years ago, that episode was considered way progressive, and is now considered regressive. But 40 years ago, they couldn't have encouraged a teenager to actually be gay on network TV. Heck, they couldn't even say the word in relation to Cindy... she had to be "strange". The words we used, in my area, back in the early 1980s, was "that way". As in, "S/he's... 'that way'. So stupid! :lol:


It definitely was a really good episode back then but things keep changing. The only thing I don't like of RH is the final scene, when the characters are "happy" that Cindy has fallen in love with a guy but, as you say, it had be that way. Anyway, it holds the record of first episode of a TV show that tackled a new subcjet, although in a very implicit way

I really like this parallel between the show and ancient Greek mythology. Congratulations, amico :wave:

Thank you, amico mio! :wave: Or, to bring it more to your homeland, "Diana" and "Venus"! :wave:



It definitely was a really good episode back then but things keep changing. The only thing I don't like of RH is the final scene, when the characters are "happy" that Cindy has fallen in love with a guy but, as you say, it had be that way. Anyway, it holds the record of first episode of a TV show that tackled a new subject, although in a very implicit way

Agreed! :wave:

And nowadays, her advice to Cindy would be considered AWFUL.

nowadays, that kind of advice would be considered very ignorant and offensive. 40+ years ago, a lot of people ignored gay people or people questioning their sexuality like Cindy.

Maybe they should re-issue the seasons 1 & 2 DVD set with a disclaimer before Rough Housing when you click on that episode:

"The Facts of Life was a product of its time before today's progressive social understandings. Opinions or statements made by the character of Mrs. Garrett regarding gender conformity are not to be taken as appropriate for today's audiences."

Kind of like how Sesame Street put a disclaimer on its Old School DVD sets warning parents that the DVDs are aimed at adults and that those early episodes no longer necessarily reflect the most commonly accepted practices in preschool programming

Or how Disney+ put a disclaimer on episodes of The Muppet Show of negative cultural depictions.

Maybe they should re-issue the seasons 1 & 2 DVD set with a disclaimer before Rough Housing when you click on that episode:

"The Facts of Life was a product of its time before today's progressive social understandings. Opinions or statements made by the character of Mrs. Garrett regarding gender conformity are not to be taken as appropriate for today's audiences."

Kind of like how Sesame Street put a disclaimer on its Old School DVD sets warning parents that the DVDs are aimed at adults and that those early episodes no longer necessarily reflect the most commonly accepted practices in preschool programming

Or how Disney+ put a disclaimer on episodes of The Muppet Show of negative cultural depictions.
Reminds me of old episodes of Dennis the Menace where Dennis, Tommy and Seymour go around shooting their toy guns. Those kind of episodes would never be made today.

Reminds me of old episodes of Dennis the Menace where Dennis, Tommy and Seymour go around shooting their toy guns. Those kind of episodes would never be made today.

Yeah I don't even like the Christmas lyric anymore "A pair of Hopalong boots and a pistol that shoots is the wish of Barney and Ben."

Why not "A pair of Hopalong boots and bright musical flutes is the wish of Barney and Ben"?

Thank you, amico mio! :wave: Or, to bring it more to your homeland, "Diana" and "Venus"! :wave:

Thanks for this nice homage :happyface:wave:

Maybe they should re-issue the seasons 1 & 2 DVD set with a disclaimer before Rough Housing when you click on that episode:

"The Facts of Life was a product of its time before today's progressive social understandings. Opinions or statements made by the character of Mrs. Garrett regarding gender conformity are not to be taken as appropriate for today's audiences."

And don't forget the episode with the R-word. With today standards, Mrs. Garrett would be insensitive

Thanks for this nice homage :happyface:wave:

Of course, mio amico! :wave:


And don't forget the episode with the R-word. With today standards, Mrs. Garrett would be insensitive

Yup. Mrs. Garrett and Roy. I can't recall offhand if any of the girls say that word or not...

Yup. Mrs. Garrett and Roy. I can't recall offhand if any of the girls say that word or not...

If I'm correct, only Mrs. Garrett. We must check :lol:

If I'm correct, only Mrs. Garrett. We must check :lol:

:lol: I think you're right. But Roy says it first!

And Charlotte didn't say anything about Mrs. G. using the R word, especially considering her second son.

:lol: I think you're right. But Roy says it first!

Mrs. Garrett, Roy, you're grounded for two months :lol:

And Charlotte didn't say anything about Mrs. G. using the R word, especially considering her second son.

Yeah, really weird, especially considering she called NBC at some point during the show's run for a gay joke. I guess the R word wasn't a big deal back then

Yeah, really weird, especially considering she called NBC at some point during the show's run for a gay joke. I guess the R word wasn't a big deal back then

Nope, I and Retro and 80s Dude and others can tell you that word wasn't a big deal at all in the '80s.

It was also used as a common insult.

Nope, I and Retro and 80s Dude and others can tell you that word wasn't a big deal at all in the '80s.

It was also used as a common insult.

It's surprising how things can change from one year to another

It's surprising how things can change from one year to another

Like Molly "triggered hormones" changing her a lot between seasons 1 and 2!

Like Molly "triggered hormones" changing her a lot between seasons 1 and 2!

Triggered hormones for Mrs. Garrett and Tootie too, they changed a lot between the first and second year :lol:

Nope, I and Retro and 80s Dude and others can tell you that word wasn't a big deal at all in the '80s.

It was also used as a common insult.

I can confirm. That was the correct term back then. Once it became a common playground insult, it fell out of fashion.

I can confirm. That was the correct term back then. Once it became a common playground insult, it fell out of fashion.

Same. And, I hate that I accidentally use it sometimes (not as an insult, of course), because it was just part of our vernacular as a word to describe some individuals with special needs. I would never use it on purpose to hurt anyone, though. I'm autistic and so is my daughter.

I think with RH, knowing that they wouldn't make a teenager a gay character in 1979, they still could have been more inclusive and acknowledge reality. Instead of Mrs. Garrett being in complete denial about the possibility of Cindy being a lesbian, she could have acknowledged that it may be true, AND that it was totally ok, so gay teens at home wouldn't feel lost if they didn't have their "clock" moment. Then, give Cindy that moment when she does realize she's hetero, but not before stating that it would be perfectly normal if she wasn't. Plus, Blair should have been lectured not just about bullying and judging books by their covers, but also her homophobic ways. Just saying...

Same. And, I hate that I accidentally use it sometimes (not as an insult, of course), because it was just part of our vernacular as a word to describe some individuals with special needs. I would never use it on purpose to hurt anyone, though. I'm autistic and so is my daughter.

I had no idea you were autistic.

I taught college courses for many years (2008 to 2021). I always had some students with disabilities, whether it was PTSD, autism, brain injuries, etc. Despite those disabilities, those students were amazing, and I was always impressed by their skill. In fact, some of my best students ever were somewhere on the spectrum.

I think with RH, knowing that they wouldn't make a teenager a gay character in 1979, they still could have been more inclusive and acknowledge reality. Instead of Mrs. Garrett being in complete denial about the possibility of Cindy being a lesbian, she could have acknowledged that it may be true, AND that it was totally ok, so gay teens at home wouldn't feel lost if they didn't have their "clock" moment. Then, give Cindy that moment when she does realize she's hetero, but not before stating that it would be perfectly normal if she wasn't. Plus, Blair should have been lectured not just about bullying and judging books by their covers, but also her homophobic ways. Just saying...

I just don't think they could have scripted that in 1979. For the first episode of a new, untested series? A decade later, Blanche Devereaux barely even knew what a lesbian was, and that was on a well-established, hit show.

if they didn't have their "clock" moment.

"Is she...you know...'that way'?"

"I don't think so. I think she just hasn't had her 'clock moment'."

"Is she...you know...'that way'?"

"I don't think so. I think she just hasn't had her 'clock moment'."

:brent

The Moral Majority and Pat Robertson would have never put up with having a 14 year old being a lesbian on TV. Lisa didn't even know what the episode was about and I wonder if her parents knew.

Same. And, I hate that I accidentally use it sometimes (not as an insult, of course), because it was just part of our vernacular as a word to describe some individuals with special needs. I would never use it on purpose to hurt anyone, though. I'm autistic and so is my daughter.

It's the same thing here in Italy but I hate that word

:brent

I'm still laughing days later at the fact that "that way" was "code" for "gay" at your school. :rofl:

I'm still laughing days later at the fact that "that way" was "code" for "gay" at your school. :rofl:

I guess it depends on how old you are. I too can remember when "that way" meant gay.

The Moral Majority and Pat Robertson would have never put up with having a 14 year old being a lesbian on TV. Lisa didn't even know what the episode was about and I wonder if her parents knew.

Wow, talk about clueless. Jeez, it was so obvious what the episode was about.

I think with RH, knowing that they wouldn't make a teenager a gay character in 1979, they still could have been more inclusive and acknowledge reality. Instead of Mrs. Garrett being in complete denial about the possibility of Cindy being a lesbian, she could have acknowledged that it may be true, AND that it was totally ok, so gay teens at home wouldn't feel lost if they didn't have their "clock" moment. Then, give Cindy that moment when she does realize she's hetero, but not before stating that it would be perfectly normal if she wasn't. Plus, Blair should have been lectured not just about bullying and judging books by their covers, but also her homophobic ways. Just saying...

The writers made Mrs. Garrett come of as so ignorant in this episode. She should have explained to Cindy that a "clock moment" only deals with the physical, not the mental. When she's describing her clock moment, she rambles on about getting "curvier and curvier." That has nothing to do with one's sexuality and their inner desires.

Charlotte called NBC at some point because she didn't like a gay joke the script had. I guess she wasn't in the position to give "orders" during "Rough Housing", after all it was the first episode of a new show

Wow, talk about clueless. Jeez, it was so obvious what the episode was about.

Yes, it's extremely difficult for me to buy that a 15-year-old girl as intelligent as Lisa didn't sense the implication even if she may not have known certain vocabulary about it.

It's like when Jackee says she still doesn't know what "Apple pie?? We never used apple pie!" meant on the pilot of 227. She was a grown woman. It seems obvious it's a joke of sexual innuendo. I can't believe she claims she still doesn't know what it means.

The writers made Mrs. Garrett come of as so ignorant in this episode. She should have explained to Cindy that a "clock moment" only deals with the physical, not the mental. When she's describing her clock moment, she rambles on about getting "curvier and curvier." That has nothing to do with one's sexuality and their inner desires.

Charlotte called NBC at some point because she didn't like a gay joke the script had. I guess she wasn't in the position to give "orders" during "Rough Housing", after all it was the first episode of a new show

Plus, we have to remember this was 1979.

Charlotte called NBC at some point because she didn't like a gay joke the script had. I guess she wasn't in the position to give "orders" during "Rough Housing", after all it was the first episode of a new show


Seriously. It comes off as really offensive, and Charlotte was definitely an ally.

Wow, talk about clueless. Jeez, it was so obvious what the episode was about.

Like Blair, Lisa was quite naive in many ways.

We also don't know if Julie Anne's mother would allow her to play the first gay teen on network TV. Julie Anne certainly was willing.

I totally believe Lisa when she says she had no idea there was a gay subtext in "Rough Housing". They didn't use the word 'gay', and times were very different. Every gay joke on Three's Company also went over my head until I was maybe 13.

I totally believe Lisa when she says she had no idea there was a gay subtext in "Rough Housing". They didn't use the word 'gay', and times were very different. Every gay joke on Three's Company also went over my head until I was maybe 13.

Yes! So true! I loved Three's Company for the characters and slapstick when I was really young, but didn't appreciate the humor until much later.

Yes! So true! I loved Three's Company for the characters and slapstick when I was really young, but didn't appreciate the humor until much later.

My grandfather watched TC five days a week in syndication when it was on right before the evening news, so we watched along with him. Until later, I had no idea what the Ropers were always arguing about (their non-existent sex life), or why Mr. Roper would say things about Jack. It was only over time that I came to understand what the central premise of the show was: Jack was pretending to be gay to live with two women. I just found the slapstick and misunderstandings funny: "Oh, but you thought... and then when we... Oh, what a silly misunderstanding! *pie in the face* :lol:

Nope, I and Retro and 80s Dude and others can tell you that word wasn't a big deal at all in the '80s.

It was also used as a common insult.

It was used as an insult til the late 2000s

Somehow, I don't believe that,at the time, Miss Whelchel didn't know that Blair was deliberately insulting Sue-Ann when calling her 'strange'. Few, if any, folks have viewed the term strange as a neutral term or compliment- even if they had no idea it could used as a euphemism for gayness.

Somehow, I don't believe that,at the time, Miss Whelchel didn't know that Blair was deliberately insulting Sue-Ann when calling her 'strange'. Few, if any, folks have viewed the term strange as a neutral term or compliment- even if they had no idea it could used as a euphemism for gayness.

She said she thought Blair was making fun of her because she was a tomboy, so she knew Blair was insulting her. It was also Cindy, not Sue Ann. Blair would also occasionally mock Sue Ann, but usually about her supposed weight problem or being from Kansas.

She said she thought Blair was making fun of her because she was a tomboy, so she knew Blair was insulting her. It was also Cindy, not Sue Ann. Blair would also occasionally mock Sue Ann, but usually about her supposed weight problem or being from Kansas.

OK, I mixed up the names but I still don't believe that Miss Whelchel sincerely was ignorant that the term 'strange' was being used by Blair as an intended insult to Cindy even if one gives the benefit of the doubt that she somehow hadn't ever heard of the concept of gayness before her time on the show. Regardless, she knew Blair WAS insulting Cindy for not being the most conventional girl in the dorm.

I still don't believe that Miss Whelchel sincerely was ignorant that the term 'strange' was being used by Blair as an intended insult to Cindy even if one gives the benefit of the doubt that he somehow hadn't ever heard of the concept of gayness before her time on the show. Regardless, she knew Blair WAS insulting Cindy for not being the most conventional girl in the dorm.

Yeah, I don't buy it either. (was it Lisa's Christianity influencing her at the time she made that remark?) One of her lines is, "What's all this hugging and touching girls??" (and "I didn't mean anything by it," "I'll bet...you just better watch what you mean...[scoffs]") How could she not sense it even if she wasn't aware of the word for it? (though for a 15-year-old girl in Hollywood, you'd think she would have been aware of the concept)

Yeah, I don't buy it either. (was it Lisa's Christianity influencing her at the time she made that remark?) One of her lines is, "What's all this hugging and touching girls??" (and "I didn't mean anything by it," "I'll bet...you just better watch what you mean...[scoffs]") How could she not sense it even if she wasn't aware of the word for it? (though for a 15-year-old girl in Hollywood, you'd think she would have been aware of the concept)

And right after Blair said those catty comments to Cindy, Cindy said she 'didn't mean anything' by hugging and telling Sue Ann she loved her (for nominating her for the Harvest Queen ) to which Blair replied 'You'd better THINK about what you mean!'

It doesn't sound as though Miss Whelchel did that re Blair's lines! :lol:

It doesn't sound as though Miss Whelchel did that re Blair's lines! :lol:

:lol:

(but it's Cindy, Cindy! Quit saying that other one! :lol:)

My grandfather watched TC five days a week in syndication when it was on right before the evening news, so we watched along with him. Until later, I had no idea what the Ropers were always arguing about (their non-existent sex life), or why Mr. Roper would say things about Jack. It was only over time that I came to understand what the central premise of the show was: Jack was pretending to be gay to live with two women. I just found the slapstick and misunderstandings funny: "Oh, but you thought... and then when we... Oh, what a silly misunderstanding! *pie in the face* :lol:

Same for me :lol:. The sex jokes disappeared after Suzanne Somers left, that's why I like more the early seasons with the Ropers than the later years. Mr. Furley was a good addition but I don't think he had the same spark of the Ropers, anyway he was really good in season 4.

Same for me :lol:. The sex jokes disappeared after Suzanne Somers left, that's why I like more the early seasons with the Ropers than the later years. Mr. Furley was a good addition but I don't think he had the same spark of the Ropers, anyway he was really good in season 4.

Yeah, the loss of the Ropers was a major blow to the show, IMO. With the casting changes, it really felt like two different series.

Yeah, the loss of the Ropers was a major blow to the show, IMO. With the casting changes, it really felt like two different series.

I agree, in most cases the supporting cast has a huge potential for the show.

Somehow, I don't believe that,at the time, Miss Whelchel didn't know that Blair was deliberately insulting Sue-Ann when calling her 'strange'. Few, if any, folks have viewed the term strange as a neutral term or compliment- even if they had no idea it could used as a euphemism for gayness.

I know people who grew up in a religious household like Miss Whelchel did. Even in their 50s, they are ignorant of things that most 50 year olds would know or even had experience with.

I know people who grew up in a religious household like Miss Whelchel did. Even in their 50s, they are ignorant of things that most 50 year olds would know or even had experience with.

Even three-year-olds in faith-based nursery schools would know that 'strange' is no neutral term or compliment but an INSULT! They may not know exactly ALL its implications but they DO know that it's meant to be a dis- as did Blair (and almost certainly Miss Whelchel at the time).

Even three-year-olds in faith-based nursery schools would know that 'strange' is no neutral term or compliment but an INSULT! They may not know exactly ALL its implications but they DO know that it's meant to be a dis- as did Blair (and almost certainly Miss Whelchel at the time).

Lisa confirms that she knew Blair was making fun of Cindy, but says she thought it was because she was a tomboy.

Even three-year-olds in faith-based nursery schools would know that 'strange' is no neutral term or compliment but an INSULT! They may not know exactly ALL its implications but they DO know that it's meant to be a dis- as did Blair (and almost certainly Miss Whelchel at the time).

But there was no definition as to what strange specifically means. Lisa thought it met that Cindy was a tomboy and not a lesbian.

cindy was so cute as well as sue ann as well


http://www.televisionofyore.com/uploads/9/3/0/3/9303799/7766290_orig.jpeg

cindy was so cute as well as sue ann as well


http://www.televisionofyore.com/uploads/9/3/0/3/9303799/7766290_orig.jpeg

Even looking like a drowned rat, Cindy looked so adorable!

Cindy is adorable today.

Even looking like a drowned rat, Cindy looked so adorable!

Ha true