Here one theory I had that Has more logical to me is in the boys on the tracks case(Don Henry and Kevin Lves). This case has so many crazy theories in it(CIA,Drug trafficking, corrupt politicians and police brutality) I think this case could be more simple than everyone may think that it is. They when out that night they got killed to Spotlight dears for fun. I had been thinking is they would catch trespassing on someone’s land near the tracks and got killed by the landowner because they may had problems with Trespassers in the past. The boys would dump on the tracks in a attemp to hide the murders

Here one theory I had that Has more logical to me is in the boys on the tracks case(Don Henry and Kevin Lves). This case has so many crazy theories in it(CIA,Drug trafficking, corrupt politicians and police brutality) I think this case could be more simple than everyone may think that it is. They when out that night they got killed to Spotlight dears for fun. I had been thinking is they would catch trespassing on someone’s land near the tracks and got killed by the landowner because they may had problems with Trespassers in the past. The boys would dump on the tracks in a attemp to hide the murders

I mean anything is possible but who kills not one but two teens for simply trespassing. Shooting at them should be enough to scare them away. They didn't have to kill them for that.

This is a case where I think they simply were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't think they were the targets, but they saw something or walked up on something they had no business seeing and were killed.

Leaving them on the tracks was extremely diabolical.

I'd love to know who the guy in camo was and why he opened fire on a police officer. Could be a major red herring, but it could also be the killer.

I mean anything is possible but who kills not one but two teens for simply trespassing.

I was thinking about the Frank Casteel case where he killed three men on ATV's for trespassing on his property. Apparently it had been a continuous problem for him.

But Don and Kevin weren't shot. Don had stab wounds and I'm not clear what Kevin's cause of death was. That doesn't play as well with a trespassing scenario for me and it seems to discard the involvement of the guy in the fatigues.

I'm not sure what to make of the Boys on the Tracks case, but I discount a lot of the conspiracies I've read. I like the Occam's Razor method, which the OP is tapping into.

I was thinking about the Frank Casteel case where he killed three men on ATV's for trespassing on his property. Apparently it had been a continuous problem for him.

But Don and Kevin weren't shot. Don had stab wounds and I'm not clear what Kevin's cause of death was. That doesn't play as well with a trespassing scenario for me and it seems to discard the involvement of the guy in the fatigues.

I'm not sure what to make of the Boys on the Tracks case, but I discount a lot of the conspiracies I've read. I like the Occam's Razor method, which the OP is tapping into.
I think reason why they would stab was be the killers didn’t want their guns traced down to them

I have also think that it would been Poachers they had a run in with

I was thinking about the Frank Casteel case where he killed three men on ATV's for trespassing on his property. Apparently it had been a continuous problem for him.

But Don and Kevin weren't shot. Don had stab wounds and I'm not clear what Kevin's cause of death was. That doesn't play as well with a trespassing scenario for me and it seems to discard the involvement of the guy in the fatigues.

I'm not sure what to make of the Boys on the Tracks case, but I discount a lot of the conspiracies I've read. I like the Occam's Razor method, which the OP is tapping into.

How funny OS...the ATV murders was my first thought too when I read the OP! And I tend to agree with you and the OP on this one. One thing I've learned over the years is to stop asking "why" when a violent crime occurs. Sometimes there's a motive and sometimes there isn't IMO, and trying to apply logical thinking to criminal behavior almost never works out for me. That said however, it still doesn't stop me from analysing every detail and trying to make order of the chaos, lol.

This case gone too Johnny Gosch route

Isn't this the one that some pro wrestler involved himself in?

Yeah.. Billy Jack Haynes. So, the internet is a wonderful thing..

WWF @ Detroit, MI - Joe Louis Arena - August 21, 1987 (2,000)
Brady Boone pinned Frenchy Martin
Steve Lombardi & Barry Horowitz defeated Sivi Afi & Scott Casey
Sika pinned SD Jones
Ted Dibiase pinned Davey Boy Smith at 10:00
Superstar Billy Graham fought Butch Reed to a double disqualification
Jake Roberts defeated Kamala via count-out
Billy Jack Haynes (sub. for Ken Patera) (w/ Ken Patera) pinned King Kong Bundy in a whipping match; after the bout, Haynes and Patera took turns whipping Bobby Heenan; Heenan was handcuffed to Mr. T for the duration of the bout

So, Billy Jack was in Detroit, MI on the night of the 21st..

Somehow, he gets to Arkansas and is "Hired Muscle" for a drug deal about 24 hours later

THEN.. he makes it to the Cow Palace in Sacramento on the 25th for a TV Taping

WWF @ San Francisco, CA - Cow Palace - August 25, 1987 (14,700; 13,200 paid; sell out)
Wrestling Challenge taping:
Demolition (w/ Mr. Fuji) defeated George Steele (sub. for Ken Patera) & Billy Jack Haynes (w/ an injured Ken Patera wearing a cast on his arm) at 9:31 when Smash pinned Haynes after Ax hit him in the back of the neck with Mr. Fuji's cane as Smash was caught in the full nelson; after the bout, Patera and Steele cleared the ring (Best of the WWF Vol. 15)
Koko B. Ware pinned Barry Horowitz
Brutus Beefcake defeated Danny Davis (w/ Jimmy Hart) via disqualification when Hart interfered
Billy Jack Haynes pinned Rip Oliver with a backslide at 4:30
Don Muraco pinned Bob Orton Jr. at 4:00
Randy Savage (w/ Miss Elizabeth) pinned Omar Atlas following several flying elbowsmashes; the bout was taped to air in the third hour of Challenge tapings but was re-taped the following day due to Atlas playing a babyface when he was supposed to be heel
WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Killer Khan via count-out
9/6/87 - included Craig DeGeorge conducting an interview with Bobby Heenan, where Heenan introduced Andre the Giant but Andre quickly went backstage after being heavily booed:
WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man (w/ Jimmy Hart) pinned Jerry Monti at 3:28 in a non-title match following the Shake, Rattle, & Roll
Rick Martel & Tito Santana defeated Steve Lombardi & Terry Gibbs at 4:15 when Santana pinned Lombardi with the flying forearm
The One Man Gang (w/ Slick) pinned Billy Anderson at 2:36 with the front suplex
Paul Orndorff (w/ Oliver Humperdink) pinned Rex Farmer at 2:33 with the piledriver
Brutus Beefcake defeated Mike Starr via submission with the sleeper at 1:57
The Islanders (w/ Bobby Heenan) defeated Steve Gatorwolf & Jesse Cortez at 2:52 following a double headbutt
9/13/87 - included Craig DeGeorge conducting an interview with WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man & Jimmy Hart; featured footage from the previous week's Superstars in which Bam Bam Bigelow named Sir Oliver Humperdink as his manager as well as footage from the Bigelow / Volkoff match:
Superstar Billy Graham defeated Tim Patterson via submission at 1:47 with the bearhug
Demolition (w/ Mr. Fuji) defeated Ricky Ataki & Pete Ketchum at 3:08 following the Decapitation on Ataki
Jake Roberts pinned Iron Mike Sharpe at 3:35 with the DDT
Ted Dibiase (w/ Virgil) defeated Lanny Poffo via submission with a leglock at 2:21
WWF Tag Team Champions Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart & Danny Davis defeated Scott Casey, Sivi Afi, & Carl Schmidt at 2:25 when Davis pinned Schmidt with a splash off the top
9/20/87 - included the Randy Savage / Omar Atlas match taped the following day; featured Craig DeGeorge conducting an interview with Ken Patera:
B. Brian Blair & Jim Brunzell defeated the Shadows at 4:10 after B. Brian Blair hit the Bee Sting flying elbow
Killer Khan (w/ Mr. Fuji) pinned Darrell Nickel at 1:55 with the flying kneedrop after spraying green mist into his opponent's eyes
Don Muraco pinned Tiger Chung Lee with a tombstone at 2:49
King Harley Race, Hercules, Rick Rude, & King Kong Bundy (w/ Bobby Heenan) defeated Brady Boone, Dusty Wolfe, Rudy Ryder, & SD Jones at 3:50 when Bundy pinned Ryder with an elbow off the middle turnbuckle
Butch Reed (w/ Slick) pinned Jerry Allen at 3:46 with a clothesline off the top


Anyway.. My best theory is the keep it simple theory. We know they weren't too high to hear a train.. The guy in fatigues.. I'd say he's the top suspect in my eyes. The whole conspiracy theory of politicians and all.. Gets too complicated. Simple answers are usually the right answers.

Problem is. There's virtually no way to ID the guy.

Billy Jack is a mentally ill man, you can't take anything he says seriously, but thanks for that timeline. (Can't believe Muraco beat Tiger Chung Lee in only 2:49.)

I'm still not sure if the camouflaged man is a red herring or not. But he's a better suspect than most.

Billy Jack is a mentally ill man, you can't take anything he says seriously, but thanks for that timeline. (Can't believe Muraco beat Tiger Chung Lee in only 2:49.)

I'm still not sure if the camouflaged man is a red herring or not. But he's a better suspect than most.

You want to break out the conspiracy theories.. look at that list and see how many people on it are dead now. just from the first show, SD Jones, Davey Boy Smith, Butch Reed, KamalaKing Kong Bundy and Bobby Heenan are all dead. And those are the ones i'm certain of.

But, the man in camo was seen by multiple people.. At the very least, he's a good suspect. The problem is.. No clue who he was and virtually no way, save him turning himself in, to find out. And even if he wasn't involved, I'd want to hear anything he knows about the night.

I'm still not sure if the camouflaged man is a red herring or not. But he's a better suspect than most.

I'd say he's more likely than not a red herring, but I'd still love to know who this man was.

Billy Jack Haynes does have some problems and I don't think he was involved in this case. That said, his travel schedule from Detroit to Bryant to Sacramento is one of the more believable things I have heard for anyone who knows the WWF road schedule in the 1980's (it wasn't just the WWF. The NWA's was just as bad if not worse). :)

The deaths of all those wrestlers is the least conspiracy theory thing out there. Bret Hart's comment about Vince treating the wrestlers like "circus animals" comes to mind, and of course they were rewarded for pumping steroids that would lead to heart disease later in life. This wouldn't be an appropriate case for Unsolved Mysteries. :lol:

I think it's more simple and the boys did fall asleep on the tracks and just were not noticed by the driver until it was too late. Unfortunately, the coroner screwed up big time.

I think it's more simple and the boys did fall asleep on the tracks and just were not noticed by the driver until it was too late. Unfortunately, the coroner screwed up big time.

Go fall asleep under your car.. I'll come out and start the engine and lay on the horn.

That'll be about 20 decibels less than the sound barrelling down on these boys.

I have always believed that the boys stumbled upon drugs from a plane drop. Then they encountered Mr. Rambo. Either the boys played dumb about intercepting the shipment or refused to turn it over to the one in charge of picking it up. That's what I think led to an assault-physical altercation.

I don't buy into the idea that they saw something and so they had to be killed because the boys were such good citizens running to the police. Lots of people see drug deals (and other crimes) going down every day.

I have always believed that the boys stumbled upon drugs from a plane drop. Then they encountered Mr. Rambo. Either the boys played dumb about intercepting the shipment or refused to turn it over to the one in charge of picking it up. That's what I think led to an assault-physical altercation.

I don't buy into the idea that they saw something and so they had to be killed because the boys were such good citizens running to the police. Lots of people see drug deals (and other crimes) going down every day.

I don't even need to believe that drugs were involved at all.. Other than, obviously, from the autopsy, we know they had smoked some weed.

I think this could have just been Mr Rambo, as you describe him going off the rails. Or, maybe they discovered his 'tent' in the woods and he returned thinking they were robbing him.

If the guy was truly a 'nam Vet and homeless.. Could be lots of PTSD options available there. No drugs required.

Go fall asleep under your car.. I'll come out and start the engine and lay on the horn.

That'll be about 20 decibels less than the sound barrelling down on these boys.

You assume they even sounded the horn on time for the boys to wake up and get out of there.

If you google people falling asleep on the tracks and getting hit by a train, you'll find multiple cases:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-12/three-killed-as-train-hits-migrants-sleeping-on-tracks-in-france

https://www.wlox.com/2021/06/17/police-man-sleeping-railroad-tracks-hit-by-train-pascagoula/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52586898

You assume they even sounded the horn on time for the boys to wake up and get out of there.

If you google people falling asleep on the tracks and getting hit by a train, you'll find multiple cases:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-12/three-killed-as-train-hits-migrants-sleeping-on-tracks-in-france

https://www.wlox.com/2021/06/17/police-man-sleeping-railroad-tracks-hit-by-train-pascagoula/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52586898

I don't assume. I bother to research before saying things. Try it sometime. Doesn't even have to be in depth research. Just a cursory look at this before saying something would have shown that the conductor did lay on the horn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Don_Henry_and_Kevin_Ives
The train driver attempted to stop and blew the horn

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-08-14-mn-623-story.html


Dr. Fahmy Malak’s report said the boys slept as if in a coma, motionless, in identical positions, their legs across the rails and their torsos between the tracks, as the train bore down with horn blaring and bells clanging.

I even read another one from the train conductors that I can't find now where they describe laying on the horn. "Frantically" is what I recall them using as the term.

Or.. Are you saying that the train conductors are lying? To cover up a conspiracy? Shall we break out the circus music?

You do assume they sounded the horn ON TIME (not once did I suggest they did NOT use it). We can only rely on the account of the train conductors who also said they saw a tarp of which not a shred was found. To make that disappear a conspiracy far more deserving of "circus music" is needed.

There don't have to be any nefarious reasons for the train conductors not to recount the events as they truly happened in a state of utter shock and maybe even guilt.

I have always believed that the boys stumbled upon drugs from a plane drop. Then they encountered Mr. Rambo. Either the boys played dumb about intercepting the shipment or refused to turn it over to the one in charge of picking it up. That's what I think led to an assault-physical altercation.

I don't buy into the idea that they saw something and so they had to be killed because the boys were such good citizens running to the police. Lots of people see drug deals (and other crimes) going down every day.

Agreed because these boys were breaking the law themselves so why would they report what if anything they saw. Soptlighting and night hunting are illegal.

Here one theory I had that Has more logical to me is in the boys on the tracks case(Don Henry and Kevin Lves). This case has so many crazy theories in it(CIA,Drug trafficking, corrupt politicians and police brutality) I think this case could be more simple than everyone may think that it is. They when out that night they got killed to Spotlight dears for fun. I had been thinking is they would catch trespassing on someone’s land near the tracks and got killed by the landowner because they may had problems with Trespassers in the past. The boys would dump on the tracks in a attemp to hide the murders

It's Arkansas. Lots of crazies down there.