I absolutely have know idea where this rumor came from or if there's any way that it can be verified. But supposedly, Mindy Cohn said in an interview from several years back that Marion Ross was cast as Beverly Ann and shot one episode in 1986.

But Cloris Leachman, who had recently endured the tragic suicide of her son Bryan (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/who-are-cloris-leachmans-5-kids-and-how-did-her-son-bryan-englund-die.html/), got wind and called Norman Lear, knowing he owned the show, directly and BEGGED him got the job. So Marion was paid and let go and Cloris was hired. Marion's episode was then reshot with Cloris.

Again, I have absolutely little proof regarding whether or not this is true behind sheer internet chatter. But Mindy Cohn in that same interview, apparently said that was "very awkward". Plus, if Marion Ross actually was an "Other Marty" (https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=006443654034974345143:kc4pt9dnkle&q=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheOtherMarty&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwidqbini9v0AhXPnGoFHd1mBtEQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cgYkBvm5-IscFLWDjnC_F), then the timeline would've probably been off. If I have my facts straight, very first thing that they filmed with the Beverly Ann character was that TV movie where they went to Australia. It was filmed during the summer of 1986 and aired in February 87.

From what I know, it was Charlotte Rae that suggested Cloris Leachman for the role. She even suggested the name of Beverly, just like her real life sister.

Several months ago, I found an article that claimed the producers thought of Monica Warner as the new mother figure after Mrs. Garrett.

If you look at Cloris's acting credits (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001458/) in the 80's, she was working nonstop on so many projects. I highly doubt she called Norman and begged him for work or let alone begged him to be on The Facts of Life. As much as I love FOL, Cloris is way popular than this show and didn't need it to keep busy. I feel like Mindy doesn't remember the details very well or spreading false rumors because she's the only one who has mentioned this. Since Cloris is dead, I think it's distasteful to spread rumors and if she was alive, I think it would be heartless to bring up memories of her losing her son and ask her if that's how she ended up on FOL.

So far, only Mindy ever mentioned that. We have never heard from Marion Ross stating anything about that.

If you look at Cloris's acting credits (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001458/) in the 80's, she was working nonstop on so many projects. I highly doubt she called Norman and begged him for work or let alone begged him to be on The Facts of Life. As much as I love FOL, Cloris is way popular than this show and didn't need it to keep busy. I feel like Mindy doesn't remember the details very well or spreading false rumors because she's the only one who has mentioned this. Since Cloris is dead, I think it's distasteful to spread rumors and if she was alive, I think it would be heartless to bring up memories of her losing her son and ask her if that's how she ended up on FOL.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. In the interview, Mindy said that Cloris called Norman Lear to ask if he had any projects she might be able to do, so the show replaced Marion Ross with her. They thought it’d be good to have someone who was an Oscar winner and had been in another successful series. Mindy pretty much debunked the story about Charlotte Rae’s referral, and explained that Charlotte and Cloris knew each other, but weren’t close. I’m not sure if they were actually roommates. Maybe they lived in the same building or hotel? I know Mindy’s the only one who’s talked about this, but it’s not really outlandish or hard to believe.

I had never heard that. I heard from the REELZ documentary that Cloris Leachman was a shoe-in and never even had to audition.

I don’t think she auditioned, whether she was first choice or not.

I don't think she auditioned for Beverly Ann either. But I definitely don't think an Oscar winning actress needs to call someone for work, or beg for work like the ridiculous claim in the first post is insinuating. Cloris had multiple projects during each year in the 80's. She didn't need Norman or FOL to keep her in a steady job. After FOL ended, she still had many projects going each year. I think it's very plausible for someone from FOL to have known Cloris and asked her to be Beverly Ann. Cloris was FOL's biggest star at the time in the 80's. I don't think she was paid what she was worth on the show. I'm sure she made less than the core four which is why I believe she was doing someone a favor to have her on.

I don't think Marion Ross is as popular as some here think she is but since some does think she is, I'm sure she would have said something about it. Many actors and actresses talk about jobs they almost had or were fired from. Cloris never said she was asking to be on this 7 year old show or that she was replacing someone. Usually replacements in projects are always talked about. FOL had so many documentaries. Why is it only Mindy on a radio interview saying something instead of a producer or director in the documentaries? I have a hard time believing Mindy on this one.

I’m not sure if they were actually roommates.

They were. Charlotte talks about it in her book. :)

I don't think she auditioned for Beverly Ann either. But I definitely don't think an Oscar winning actress needs to call someone for work, or beg for work like the ridiculous claim in the first post is insinuating. Cloris had multiple projects during each year in the 80's. She didn't need Norman or FOL to keep her in a steady job. After FOL ended, she still had many projects going each year. I think it's very plausible for someone from FOL to have known Cloris and asked her to be Beverly Ann. Cloris was FOL's biggest star at the time in the 80's. I don't think she was paid what she was worth on the show. I'm sure she made less than the core four which is why I believe she was doing someone a favor to have her on.

I don't think Marion Ross is as popular as some here think she is but since some does think she is, I'm sure she would have said something about it. Many actors and actresses talk about jobs they almost had or were fired from. Cloris never said she was asking to be on this 7 year old show or that she was replacing someone. Usually replacements in projects are always talked about. FOL had so many documentaries. Why is it only Mindy on a radio interview saying something instead of a producer or director in the documentaries? I have a hard time believing Mindy on this one.

I’m inclined to believe Mindy. It’d be such a far out fact to get wrong. She does get some details wrong (she thinks the show was in for 10 years), but she’s not really a BSer. I do think Marion Ross was a plausible choice. Happy Days had recently ended and she would have been familiar to a lot of people who had been watching her on TV for 10 years. Maybe she’s not popular now, but that’s partly because Happy Days isn’t constantly on TV anymore. isn’t constantly on TV anymore.

Also, knowing that Hollywood is not a friendly place for older women, I do think it’s plausible that Cloris Leachman felt compelled to call Norman Lear and ask about any available projects. I don’t have a lot of memories of the 80s, but based on my recollection of the 90s-00s, this widespread respect for older actresses didn’t really take place until the Betty White craze. I’m talking widespread as in everybody making a to-do on social media. I don’t mean there was 0 respect before. Something just changed around 2010. I even remember watching the original Will and Grace and wondering why Debbie Reynolds’ guest spots got smaller every year. I really thought they were wasting her time. But when she passed, the Will and Grace cast and creators spoke as if they had a huge void to fill in the revival.

This is all opinion. It’s be nice if someone wrote a behind the scenes book about Facts. Or if interviewers asked better than cutesy questions when they speak to the cast.

It’d be such a far out fact to get wrong.

Not when it's about a 40 year old show and an actress who passed away. I think it was shortly after Cloris's passing when Mindy revealed this.


Also, knowing that Hollywood is not a friendly place for older women, I do think it’s plausible that Cloris Leachman felt compelled to call Norman Lear and ask about any available projects.

By 1986, Cloris had an Oscar, 5 Primetime Emmy awards, a Golden Globe award, and a Daytime Emmy Award which back in the 80's Daytime Emmy's meant something. Cloris was a huge actress. I don't think it's true she needed help to find work. She was working steady before FOL if you look at her acting credits. After FOL ended, she signed up with a new TV show with Harvey Korman. Are we really to believe she didn't have offers before FOL in 1986 to be on a TV show? She had to ask for work with her award history and name in the business? I can't believe that because unlike today's times, in the 80's and 90's awards meant something for an actor / actress. I don't think they hold much weight now in getting someone work.


the Betty White craze

The only reason there's craze about her is because of her appearance, not her acting. Younger generations only know of her because they like how she has the old grandmother appearance. I work in high schools and will ask a student whenever I see them wear a Golden Girls shirt or talk about Betty White. That is the main reason for a lot of them because she reminds them of their grandmother.


It’s be nice if someone wrote a behind the scenes book about Facts. Or if interviewers asked better than cutesy questions when they speak to the cast.

I would like more clarification on this rumor since none of the other cast are talking about it and none of the producers or directors are mentioning it.

I absolutely have know idea where this rumor came from or if there's any way that it can be verified. But supposedly, Mindy Cohn said in an interview from several years back that Marion Ross was cast as Beverly Ann and shot one episode in 1986.

But Cloris Leachman, who had recently endured the tragic suicide of her son Bryan (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/who-are-cloris-leachmans-5-kids-and-how-did-her-son-bryan-englund-die.html/), got wind and called Norman Lear, knowing he owned the show, directly and BEGGED him got the job. So Marion was paid and let go and Cloris was hired. Marion's episode was then reshot with Cloris.

Again, I have absolutely little proof regarding whether or not this is true behind sheer internet chatter. But Mindy Cohn in that same interview, apparently said that was "very awkward". Plus, if Marion Ross actually was an "Other Marty" (https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=006443654034974345143:kc4pt9dnkle&q=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheOtherMarty&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwidqbini9v0AhXPnGoFHd1mBtEQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cgYkBvm5-IscFLWDjnC_F), then the timeline would've probably been off. If I have my facts straight, very first thing that they filmed with the Beverly Ann character was that TV movie where they went to Australia. It was filmed during the summer of 1986 and aired in February 87.

The roots of this rumor are true, though some details have become mixed up.

Our friends at "You Might Know Her From (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindy-cohn/id1451464152?i=1000504578354)" did an interview with Mindy in January 2021 (not a few years ago) where Mindy stated Marion Ross was originally cast as Edna's sister. She did not do any episodes. Cloris did call Norman Lear, looking for a job. So far as we know, there was no begging. Marion Ross was replaced. The Facts of Life Goes to Australia movie was filmed, and it was with Cloris. The regular season followed.

We rate this claim Mostly True.

The roots of this rumor are true, though some details have become mixed up.

Our friends at "You Might Know Her From (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindy-cohn/id1451464152?i=1000504578354)" did an interview with Mindy in January 2021 (not a few years ago) where Mindy stated Marion Ross was originally cast as Edna's sister. She did not do any episodes. Cloris did call Norman Lear, looking for a job. So far as we know, there was no begging. Marion Ross was replaced. The Facts of Life Goes to Australia movie was filmed, and it was with Cloris. The regular season followed.

We rate this claim Mostly True.

Thanks. I don’t think Cloris was begging for work. She was a working actress who called a creative friend to ask what he had on the table. I don’t even think that is desperate.

Thanks. I don’t think Cloris was begging for work. She was a working actress who called a creative friend to ask what he had on the table. I don’t even think that is desperate.

I agree it's not desperate to call friends when looking for work. That's how it's often done in Hollywood and elsewhere. You work your network: your connections are your biggest asset.

I have worked in Hollywood, though my last LA production was a comic con-style interview gig in Los Angeles in November 2019, for which I was well paid, and for which I was flown out. All of my jobs in LA have been through word of mouth. You do call around. That is just working your connections. Hollywood is all about who you know, and who knows you. The industry is very much about nepotism and connections, and has been since the early days.

For example, all of the girl extras in "The Girls' School" were the friends/daughters/whatever of Hollywood producers. We've known this for years. DeJanine (sp?) and the rest. Norman Lear's god-daughters, the Segal twins, got their own Norman Lear show (they were not 16, despite what they claimed on The Tonight Show). This is just how Hollywood works.

The roots of this rumor are true, though some details have become mixed up.

Our friends at "You Might Know Her From (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindy-cohn/id1451464152?i=1000504578354)" did an interview with Mindy in January 2021 (not a few years ago) where Mindy stated Marion Ross was originally cast as Edna's sister. She did not do any episodes. Cloris did call Norman Lear, looking for a job. So far as we know, there was no begging. Marion Ross was replaced. The Facts of Life Goes to Australia movie was filmed, and it was with Cloris. The regular season followed.

We rate this claim Mostly True.

I don't consider it mostly true and I don't see how others can. Look at the facts surrounding this rumor: Cloris never worked in Norman Lear's shows. The role she's mostly known for is Phyllis which doesn't work in the style of a Norman Lear show because he does serious shows. Why would she call Norman for work? If she was wanting a serious role, why would she take Beverly Ann that is just like Phyllis? Norman had no control over FOL during season 8. How did he get her the job when another company was producing FOL? Also, Cloris was working nonstop in the 80's. I do remember Mindy saying Cloris called Norman asking for a job. Why would she need him to help her get a job when she already had a bunch going on? She was also working on other projects the same time she was working on FOL. That doesn't sound like someone who needs a job. There's been so many documentaries on this show. Are we really to believe only Mindy remembers this every time season 8 is mentioned about Charlotte leaving and Cloris coming on? And why did she do it on a radio interview instead of on a documentary? She's been in plenty of them. It's pretty easy on a documentary to fact check that claim. That's a pretty big rumor Mindy started that no one has talked about in decades. I don't buy it. There's too many things around this rumor contradicting it.


Here's an article from 1986 (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-14-ca-3338-story.html) stating "NBC programming czar Brandon Tartikoff suggested that Leachman join the cast as the resident chaperon in place of the departing Charlotte Rae, “we had to take the offer seriously,” Leachman said." It doesn't sound like Norman Lear had anything to do with it since he's not mentioned at all in this article. I'm choosing to believe Cloris on this one than Mindy.

I don't consider it mostly true and I don't see how others can. Look at the facts surrounding this rumor: Cloris never worked in Norman Lear's shows.

Cloris appeared as a recurring character in The Powers that Be, a Norman Lear production in the 1990s (https://www.deseret.com/1992/3/6/18971756/norman-lear-s-the-powers-that-be-is-outrageously-funny-sitcom-satire), as well as Sunday Dinner, another Norman Lear production. These were just after FOL ended, in the 1990-1993 era.

How did he get her the job when another company was producing FOL?

Norman Lear still had some influence at Coca-Cola: he had just made a multi-million dollar deal with them just a year earlier. Norman Lear was not above pulling in favors, and executives at all three networks owed him favors. That is how Charlotte got hired for DS on NBC when she had a contract on CBS.


Also, Cloris was working nonstop in the 80's.

By 1986, Cloris was doing mostly animated voiceover work, being the voice of Hydia in My Little Pony (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091584/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_131), the voice of Dola in Castle in the Sky (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092067/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_130), the voice of Mrs. Pickett in the direct-to-video Sparky's Magic Piano (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378792/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_127), and the voice of Queen Serena in The Little Troll Prince (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0300143/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_125). The former Academy Award-winning actress had been reduced to doing cartoon voiceovers for direct-to-video productions.

Cloris appeared as a recurring character in The Powers that Be, a Norman Lear production in the 1990s (https://www.deseret.com/1992/3/6/18971756/norman-lear-s-the-powers-that-be-is-outrageously-funny-sitcom-satire), as well as Sunday Dinner, another Norman Lear production. These were just after FOL ended, in the 1990-1993 era.

Those were in the 90's. I don't see any articles citing Norman for getting her the job in FOL. Instead, there's an article from that time period where she credits NBC's Brandon Tartikoff for wanting her on FOL.



By 1986, Cloris was doing mostly animated voiceover work, being the voice of Hydia in My Little Pony (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091584/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_131), the voice of Dola in Castle in the Sky (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092067/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_130), the voice of Mrs. Pickett in the direct-to-video Sparky's Magic Piano (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378792/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_127), and the voice of Queen Serena in The Little Troll Prince (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0300143/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_125). The former Academy Award-winning actress had been reduced to doing cartoon voiceovers for direct-to-video productions.

That's not all she did. You left out all the movies she had done by 1986. She was still doing movies while playing on FOL. Shadow Play (1986) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091931/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_132) Walk Like A Man (1987) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094288/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_128) Hansel and Gretel (1987) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093144/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_124) Going To The Chapel (1988) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095234/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_122) Before The Facts of Life she was in a ton of TV movies. Back in the 80's, TV movies were something. She even won an Emmy for one of her TV movies. Her voice over credits you mention and doing kids specials got her a daytime Emmy so that's nothing to sneeze at. You make it sound like she wasn't anything by the time she did FOL but she was still winning awards for her acting in the 80's. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one since I look at facts than someone's word on how Cloris got the job.

Christopher,

I have one question re your arguments casting doubts on Miss Cohn's claims about Miss Ross being booted in favor of Miss Leachman to have been Miss Rae's replacement:

What would it have gained Miss Cohn to make stuff up out of thin air for a podcast about a role that was cast over 30 years ago? I mean, of ALL the things she could talk about (and perhaps even stretch the truth about) , it seems there would have been little if anything for her to have gained about in starting/restarting something concerning Miss Ross and the late Miss Leachman. And her own character of Natalie had little if anything to do with Beverly Ann.

P.S. Has anyone heard a peep from Miss Ross about whether she ever was considered for the role- much less had shot an episode before getting canned then paid off?

What would it have gained Miss Cohn to make stuff up out of thin air for a podcast about a role that was cast over 30 years ago? I mean, of ALL the things she could talk about (and perhaps even stretch the truth about) , it seems there would have been little if anything for her to have gained about in starting/restarting something concerning Miss Ross and the late Miss Leachman.

I think she's mistaken. This is a big story to not be covered in any of the documentaries. You also have Cloris from 1986 giving an interview where she credits Brandon Tartikoff for her landing the role on FOL. If Norman actually got her the role, why not pay credit to him? Better yet, if Marion had the role on FOL, why are there no articles back then of her coming to FOL? It seems so odd.

I think what really happened is that Marion was considered for the role but never offered. I think once NBC saw what the character of Beverly Ann was going to be like, they immediately wanted Cloris for the role because in all honesty, Beverly Ann is a Phyllis clone. They're identical characters so why not have the original Phyllis play Beverly Ann?


P.S. Has anyone heard a peep from Miss Ross about whether she ever was considered for the role- much less had shot an episode before getting canned then paid off?


Nope. I googled Marion Ross and The Facts of Life, Marion Ross Charlotte Rae, and Marion Ross Beverly Ann and nothing comes up. Every documentary discussing Cloris coming on in season 8 never says she was replacing Marion Ross which makes me think Marion Ross was never casted in FOL like Mindy said. I think she was considered but they went with Cloris. I don't think Norman had anything to do with it or Cloris asking for a job.

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

I think she's mistaken. This is a big story to not be covered in any of the documentaries. You also have Cloris from 1986 giving an interview where she credits Brandon Tartikoff for her landing the role on FOL. If Norman actually got her the role, why not pay credit to him? Better yet, if Marion had the role on FOL, why are there no articles back then of her coming to FOL? It seems so odd.

I think what really happened is that Marion was considered for the role but never offered. I think once NBC saw what the character of Beverly Ann was going to be like, they immediately wanted Cloris for the role because in all honesty, Beverly Ann is a Phyllis clone. They're identical characters so why not have the original Phyllis play Beverly Ann?





Nope. I googled Marion Ross and The Facts of Life, Marion Ross Charlotte Rae, and Marion Ross Beverly Ann and nothing comes up. Every documentary discussing Cloris coming on in season 8 never says she was replacing Marion Ross which makes me think Marion Ross was never casted in FOL like Mindy said. I think she was considered but they went with Cloris. I don't think Norman had anything to do with it or Cloris asking for a job.

Maybe they kept it close to the vest so that could avoid a controversy. I’m sure they also paid Marion Ross. She probably didn’t care much, tbh.

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

Great find!

Great find!

Thanks, SM!

I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:

MOVIE REVIEW : ‘PONY’ HAS A BAD CASE OF THE CUTES (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-20-ca-11591-story.html)


Danny DeVito, Madeline Kahn, Cloris Leachman, Rhea Pearlman and Tony Randall provide the voices for the Smooze, the witches and an absent-minded elf. But the entire cast whines and camps and overacts so shamelessly that listening to “My Little Pony” is like plugging your headphones into a ham actor.

The film was drawn in Japan and Korea for Sunbow/Marvel, and the animation looks like rewarmed Saturday morning kidvid. It’s hard to understand why director Michael Joens accepted a script that featured the Smooze so prominently, as none of the artists can animate it. Giving weight, volume and convincing motion to an amorphous character is extremely difficult, and these animators simply aren’t equal to the challenge.

Composer Tommy Goodman and lyricist Barry Harman contributed a number of extraneous, saccharine songs that give new currency to the term doggerel . But the real theme song of “My Little Pony” is the ring of the cash register, as Hasbro attempts to turn unwitting young viewers into customers. The sugary cuteness of the Little Ponies masks a corporate greed as cold and sharp as a razor blade.

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

I've never heard of Madison State Journal. It seems so weird that if this is true because this article doesn't make what Mindy say true (ask Thomas Dewey if papers don't make mistakes), I think the documentaries would have touched on this. Cloris gave an interview in 1986. I can't imagine they wouldn't mention that Cloris was a replacement. Replacements aren't taboo in Hollywood. They happen quite a bit. I still think Marion was a consideration but NBC went with Cloris. Cloris even credited the head of NBC in her interview suggesting her for the part.


I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:


What does that have to do with anything? You're really fixated on My Little Pony. Are you a brony? :lol: :p I never watched My Little Pony, but I did see some of her movies. Growing up my favorite was Double Double Toil and Trouble. I'm sure the reviews are bad but as a kid, that was a fun Halloween movie :)

Thanks, SM!

I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:

MOVIE REVIEW : ‘PONY’ HAS A BAD CASE OF THE CUTES (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-20-ca-11591-story.html)

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

It probably was for an entire generation of 1980s kids. Those pony figurines were very popular with girls. I know my sister had dozens of them. She also had the pink castle playset so they had a place to live. 🐎

It probably was for an entire generation of 1980s kids.

Not for me, as I didn't see the MLP movie until this year. FOL was probably my introduction to her.


Those pony figurines were very popular with girls. I know my sister had dozens of them. She also had the pink castle playset so they had a place to live. ��

My sister had the original Blossom (pony, not Bialik :lol:). The originals were pretty little ponies.

If your sister had dozens, wow! :eek:

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

MTM's Phyllis Lindstrom was MY intro to her but I've never seen the MLP beyond the odd commercial here and there .

Still, it's hard to imagine anyone watching FOL would have been MORE eager to tune in to see Miss Leachman via enjoying her voicework in MLP than in her earlier work on MTM.

To somewhat bring this back on topic, at the time, I think the powers may have decided that they weren't ready to chance Miss Ross to do another 'Mrs. C.' after all and balked at that when ultimately deciding on Miss Leachman. However, she WOULD play a very different role as the autocratic but charming matriarch in 'Brooklyn Bridge' so she may have wound up playing things differently as the 'adult' member of the FOL so who knows.

Marion Ross would have been interesting and probably a lot better replacement than Cloris Leachman. Too bad that didn't happen.

Has anyone read Marion Ross' book from a few years ago yet? I know she has appeared in many TV series and movies, so I would be surprised if she never mentioned it.

My Days: Happy and Otherwise
https://www.amazon.com/My-Days-Otherwise-Marion-Ross/dp/1496715152?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=&linkCode=ll1&tag=happydaysonline5-20&linkId=b708001c7519866fa2ce64fd0ddfe50e&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

An interesting fact is that Marion Ross replaced Michael Learned's character in the Who's the Boss? spin-off series Living Dolls in 1989. She was in two episodes near the end of the series.

There's a book called Single Season Sitcoms of the 1980s: A Complete Guide that mentions this:

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Season-Sitcoms-1980s-Complete/dp/0786499583?keywords=single+season+sitcoms&qid=1639434815&s=books&sr=1-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=happydaysonline5-20&linkId=c73b93cc7f31998a26128cbe05732553&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 90
The real goal of our show was re-creating 'The Facts of Life with prettier girls. ... Near the end of the show's short run, Learned's character was “replaced” by her sister, Marion (Marion Ross) and Trish was said to be "away."

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Single_Season_Sitcoms_of_the_1980s/7OHIDAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=facts+of+life+marion+ross&pg=PA90&printsec=frontcover

This would have been a similar setup as The Facts of Life with her replacing her sister Edna Garrett (Charlotte Rae). I wonder if that's where the confusion comes from.

I would think the item that Marion Ross had been cast would have been picked up by more than one newspaper. That would have been a very quick casting change. Maybe Marion Ross was unable to make the trip to Australia due to other work obligations. According to this article (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/15/travel/what-s-doing-on-cape-cod.html) in June 1986, she was doing a play "Never Too Late," at the Cape Playhouse in Dennis, Massachusetts with Gavin MacLeod in the cast. She was also appearing as his wife on The Love Boat around that time.

"The Cape Playhouse (617-385-3911) on Route 6A in Dennis opens its 60th season June 28 with the musical ''Dames at Sea.'' Week-long performances of Broadway hits are presented through Aug. 30 with such stars as Conrad Bain in ''Country Cops,'' Rosemary Prinz and Fannie Flagg in the female version of ''The Odd Couple,'' Michael Learned and Eileen Heckart in ''Pack of Lies'' and Gavin MacLeod and Marion Ross in ''Never Too Late.'' Tickets: $10 to $17."

The Madison State Journal article doesn't really fit the timeline if they started filming in June 1986. That news blurb could have been delayed by several weeks and already outdated by the time it was published.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Facts_of_Life_Down_Under:

The Facts of Life Down Under was filmed from June to July 1986 at the following locations in Sydney and surrounding areas: Circular Quay ferry wharf, Mosman, New South Wales, Kirribilli, New South Wales, Art Gallery of New South Wales, Bradleys Head, Queen Victoria Building, Strickland House, Vaucluse, Sydney Opera House, Taronga Zoo and Uluṟu-Kata Tjuṯa National Park.

The bottom line is that if Charlotte Rae had recommended Cloris Leachman as her replacement and she was available, they probably would have went with her as their first choice. It seems likely that Marion Ross had other job commitments and couldn't be filming in Australia in June and July 1986. If they had taped a regular episode in August 1986, maybe she could have done it. The summer filming schedule in Australia worked to Cloris Leachman's advantage.

To somewhat bring this back on topic, at the time, I think the powers may have decided that they weren't ready to chance Miss Ross to do another 'Mrs. C.' after all and balked at that when ultimately deciding on Miss Leachman. However, she WOULD play a very different role as the autocratic but charming matriarch in 'Brooklyn Bridge' so she may have wound up playing things differently as the 'adult' member of the FOL so who knows.

I don't think Beverly Ann would have been wacky and fun if Marion had been cast. I think the character would be rewritten to be an exact copy of Mrs. Garrett. Too many people see Marion as one of TV's best moms. Fans would be expecting that with her on FOL. I think the writers would also want that so fans would think Mrs. Garrett was still there.


I would think the item that Marion Ross had been cast would have been picked up by more than one newspaper. That would have been a very quick casting change.

I would think this would make the documentaries every time they mention "who's going to replace Charlotte?" when season 8 comes up for discussion. It's never been mention in those. We know it was not a quick casting change because Mindy talks about these letters Cloris wrote to each of the girls before coming onto the show. According to Mindy, Cloris wrote letters as Beverly Ann saying she's in her Winnebago and will be joining them soon. Cloris had to have had the role way before the Australia movie to do these letters. Right after Australia, they started filming the season opener. It's things like these that I have trouble believing this rumor. Like I said, casting replacements are not a shameful thing in Hollywood. They have no problem acknowledging Nancy replaced the first season girls so there shouldn't be any shame in saying Marion was originally cast but dropped for Cloris IF that were true.

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

Nice find.

I would think the item that Marion Ross had been cast would have been picked up by more than one newspaper.

It actually was; I just snipped that out as one example. Here are a couple more; all I found have been from July 1986. I agree that the timing is quite tight, but not impossible.

Nice find.

Thanks! I actually was not expecting to find an announcement of Marion Ross' hire during the production of the Australia film, so I originally missed it when researching. It's one of those "truth is stranger than fiction" type situations. It's the last thing you would expect. But Mindy's account is backed up by multiple sources, and those sources even give us a pretty unexpected date.

There's big irony: under the even more sexually involved part comes Bill Cosby. :eek:

Marion Ross would have been interesting and probably a lot better replacement than Cloris Leachman. Too bad that didn't happen.

I agree that Marion Ross would have been very cool in the role. She had a look that was closer to Charlotte Rae's look, and would have been closer to what her sister would likely have looked like. Cloris certainly made the role her own, as the kooky Phyllis-like store manager... but it gave the show a very different feel. Beverly Ann adopting orphans, with her spiky hair and quirky personality, was a far cry from Mrs. Garrett's warm quiche, which, I think, was similar to how Marion Ross would have portrayed her.

I do love, though, that we are still discovering new layers to this show. Between the Reelz documentary last year revealing dozens of never before seen photos (from Julie Pie's photo albums!) and never before heard interviews (such as Julie Anne's revelation that she was hired about the same week that she started work), we are still learning more about this series. For example, Felice's story about Kim and her grandfather's dentures! :lol:

There's big irony: under the even more sexually involved part comes Bill Cosby. :eek:

HA! Nice catch! :lol:

My sister had the original Blossom (pony, not Bialik :lol:). The originals were pretty little ponies.

If your sister had dozens, wow! :eek:

I think she mostly had the generic knock-off brand figures, which were called Your Small Equine-Shaped Friends, or something like that. In the words of Sophia Petrillo, "We was po'." :lol: We did not originally have indoor plumbing, and we used an outhouse until the mid-1980s, so non-generic plastic collectables were somewhat of a luxury. I did not invite friends over to my house for this reason, and the one time I did, it didn't go well! :lol:

I guess multiple sources back it up. It's strange they would cast her in June or July if they knew they would be filming in Australia and Marion Ross was doing a play that summer. She was already pretty active with The Love Boat and other roles in 1986.

Maybe they didn't originally intend to have the Beverly Ann character in the movie. They probably wanted to introduce her properly in "Out of Peekskill."

When did Charlotte Rae announce she was leaving the show? It must have been June or July. She must have had an agreement to return for the eighth season premiere to wrap things up for her character. She wanted to do some traveling, but I guess she didn't want to make the trip to Australia.

from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Rae) - Towards the end of the seventh season, Rae began to contemplate leaving the series. She wanted to spend more time doing theater as well as do some traveling. The producers of the show tried to persuade Rae to continue with The Facts of Life for at least another two years, but she felt her time on the program had run its course and decided to leave at the end of the 1985–86 season.


A few things I found online:

The first time somebody mentioned Marion Ross being cast on this board was in 2004, so this information would have been known by some fans before the podcast.

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=2018638&highlight=marion+ross#post2018638

...and at one point they actually announced that Marion Ross would be taking the role. The announcement turned out to be a bit premature, as we all now know.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

from a message board in 2014 - https://www.datalounge.com/thread/9868232-do-you-think-the-facts-of-life-would-ve-been-very-different-had-the-other-girls-from-season-1-stayed-on-

Little known fact: when replacing Charlotte Rae, it came down to the wire between Leachman and Marion Ross.

from 2017 - https://www.datalounge.com/thread/18340979-inconsistencies-on-the-facts-of-life-

Before they hired Cloris Leachman, the Enquirer or some other tabloid said that Marion Ross had been hired. I like Marion Ross, but at that point, the girls didn't need a mother-type anymore, and that's what Marion would have provided. In order to refresh the show, they needed someone different, and someone who was funny in their own right, and Cloris certainly fit that bill.

I don't think the character of Beverly Ann worked that great, but I wouldn't blame that on Cloris.

------------------------------------------------------------------

from Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/marymagazine/posts/3754734817917027

33. In 1986, she beat out Shirley Jones, Marion Ross, Florence Henderson, and Michael Learned for the replacement role of Mrs. Garrett’s sister ‘Beverly Ann’ on The Facts of Life. She came up with the character’s last name “Stickle.”

------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like they considered many former TV moms for the role.

The whole story of Cloris Leachman calling Norman Lear and begging for a job doesn't really add up. The most likely scenario seems that Marion Ross was unavailable to film in Australia that summer, so they had to look for somebody who could be there on short notice.

I guess multiple sources back it up. It's strange they would cast her in June or July if they knew they would be filming in Australia and Marion Ross was doing a play that summer. She was already pretty active with The Love Boat and other roles in 1986.

Yeah, as I said, the timing is very strange. July 1986 is not what I would have expected for the announcement, either.

But two guest appearances on The Love Boat in Fall 1986 wouldn't likely have prevented Marion Ross from working full-time on another show, and clearly her Love Boat appearances would have precluded extending her doing plays beyond part of the summer months anyway.


Maybe they didn't originally intend to have the Beverly Ann character in the movie. They probably wanted to introduce her properly in "Out of Peekskill."

Early plans for the Australia movie have the production in Venice, and it was "The Facts of Life Goes to Venice". As late as February 1986, the plan was for the film to be shot in Italy, with Mrs. Garrett, and the script was not changed to Australia until sometime after that month, because the 26th of February script is still in Venice. My research indicates there were threats of terrorism in Italy at that time, so production was moved, and all the references to pasta got changed to didgeridoos. :lol:

(Since Pippa was created based on the success of the Australia movie, imagine if she had been Italian instead!)


When did Charlotte Rae announce she was leaving the show? It must have been June or July. She must have had an agreement to return for the eighth season premiere to wrap things up for her character. She wanted to do some traveling, but I guess she didn't want to make the trip to Australia.

Charlotte had an undisclosed heart condition, and she also felt as though her character wasn't needed anymore. She asked for reduced appearances in Seasons 6 and 7. The February 26th Venice script still has Mrs. Garrett in it, and the last two episodes of Season 7 were taped with Charlotte present, in March. The producers begged her to stay, by Charlotte's own account, but she was ready to move on. She did agree to the two-part guest appearance in Season 8 to wrap up her role.


A few things I found online:

The first time somebody mentioned Marion Ross being cast on this board was in 2004, so this information would have been known by some fans before the podcast.

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=2018638&highlight=marion+ross#post2018638

...and at one point they actually announced that Marion Ross would be taking the role. The announcement turned out to be a bit premature, as we all now know.

Yeah, it was known by FOL viewers even back then, and some people would have remembered the casting announcement that was made way back in the 1980s. If it had just been a post on Datalounge, I would have disregarded it as a rumor, but there are people posting about it over a couple of decades, just as you have documented above, and we can find details of the announcement in newspapers going back all the way to July 1986. Given more time, more details may become available. I have access to sources that aren't googleable, and I am always surprised by the resourcefulness of the board members here. We never would have known taping dates, production details, and odd facts without fans here coming out of the woodwork to share their knowledge. It's always good to be skeptical, but in this case, we have a few more, ahem, facts. :lol:

I’m declaring Marion Ross’s casting a fact. Fast, Accurate, Concise, True.

I’m declaring Marion Ross’s casting a fact. Fast, Accurate, Concise, True.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Thank you, Mr. (Mrs.? Miss? Ms.?) Gideon! :lol:

(...Also, please do not shred my story in front of the other students!)

Mr., lol

Gary Deeb was a TV gossip columnist. I enjoyed his column but it featured reporting of rumors and sentences that began with “I hear.”

The Madison Journal article also isn’t a credible source since it also states that Jamie Rose was a regular on St Elsewhere when she was just a guest star in a few episodes.

Marion Ross was considered like Shirley Jones and Michael Learned. But if wasn’t reported in a reputable trade paper then it probably was never finalized.

Not everything that appears in print or on a message board from 20 years ago is true.

Mr., lol

Well, as long as you aren't destroying my story in class, I won't print an unkind article about you in The Eastlander. :lol:

Well, as long as you aren't destroying my story in class, I won't print an unkind article about you in The Eastlander. :lol:

LOL , this is more embarrassing than a rip in my pants.

Are there any documented sources that state The Facts of Life Down Under was filmed in June and July 1986?

A post on here from 2015 states that production was started in early October 1986. That would better fit the timeline.

NBC strategically created the family friendly "DOWN UNDER" movie to air a opposite the very serious nuclear war Mini Series "AMERIKA". Production began early October 1986. there are many articles available on this story, i can post if you wish.

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5000955&postcount=19

The Facts of Life Down Under filming locations video lists June and July 1986.

W9JXPBMG8tA

Are there any documented sources that state The Facts of Life Down Under was filmed in June and July 1986?

A post on here from 2015 states that production was started in early October 1986. That would better fit the timeline.

NBC strategically created the family friendly "DOWN UNDER" movie to air a opposite the very serious nuclear war Mini Series "AMERIKA". Production began early October 1986. there are many articles available on this story, i can post if you wish.

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5000955&postcount=19

The Facts of Life Down Under filming locations video lists June and July 1986.

W9JXPBMG8tA

If Down Under was not filmed in the summer of ‘86, when else would it have been filmed? They’d have been taping the series in the later summer/Fall.

Actually Down Under was taped during the winter in Australia. You always saw the cast in coats and sweaters. Of course the wiinter in Sidney doesn't compare to the winters of the northern part of the US.

Actually Down Under was taped during the winter in Australia. You always saw the cast in coats and sweaters. Of course the wiinter in Sidney doesn't compare to the winters of the northern part of the US.

I understand that. Our seasons are the reverse of Australia. My question is when else could they have filmed this movie other than that part of 1986? It doesn’t seem like there was any other time.

They would have had plenty of time to film in Australia in early October 1986. It could have been done in a 2 or 3 week window. There are no production numbers for The Facts of Life Down Under on any episode guide that I've seen, so nobody seems to know for sure when they filmed it.

It doesn't make any sense that they would announce Marion Ross was being cast and then switch to Cloris Leachman so quickly. She probably hadn't worked with or even known much of the cast at that point. She had no time to mesh with the cast. Would they have flown her to Australia on such short notice in June or July?

I would be curious when they first announced Cloris Leachman as part of the cast. Maybe they would have listed the reason for the switch.

When ABC announced the big Amerika miniseries, NBC needed something big to counter it for February sweeps. They already had the Venice script for a planned TV movie, so they could easily change it.

These are the known production numbers.

801/802 - Out of Peekskill
803 - Ready or Not
804 - Where's Poppa?
805 - Another Room
806 - Write and Wrong
807 - Off-Broadway Baby
808 - The Little Chill
809 - The Ratings Game
810 - Fast Food
811 - The Wedding Day
812 - Seven Little Indians (aired January 3, 1987)

They could have already taped 6-8 episodes in August and September. They would have had plenty of time to tape additional episodes after returning from Australia.

I thought Down Under was Cloris Leachman’s first time with the cast. The movie had already been written with that romantic storyline for Charlotte Rae. Most of season 8 had probably been planned out since they knew well in advance that Charlotte was leaving. It shouldn’t have been that hard for any actor to drop in.

I would be curious when they first announced Cloris Leachman as part of the cast. Maybe they would have listed the reason for the switch.

The news that Cloris had been cast was very sudden, also happening in July 1986.

This article appeared in the Sandusky, Ohio, Register on July 24th, 1986, apparently just two days after "Out of Peekskill, Part 1" had been shot. There were similar announcements made the week before. There's no explanation of the sudden change, that I have yet found.

NBC strategically created the family friendly "DOWN UNDER" movie to air a opposite the very serious nuclear war Mini Series "AMERIKA". Production began early October 1986. there are many articles available on this story, i can post if you wish.

Please do. We always appreciate original news articles here.

I found a listing for the original airing of "Out of Peekskill", part 1, from September 1986. It's from the Kokomo (IN) Tribune. Posting here, just for the sake of memories. I remember the original airing, and how sad I was to see Mrs. Garrett leave. :(

I thought Down Under was Cloris Leachman’s first time with the cast.

Yes, Mindy has stated this before.

The movie had already been written with that romantic storyline for Charlotte Rae.

Yep. We see this in the Venice script.

Are there any documented sources that state The Facts of Life Down Under was filmed in June and July 1986?

A post on here from 2015 states that production was started in early October 1986. That would better fit the timeline.

I just checked Kim's book, Blessed Life, and she confirms the Down Under film was filmed in three weeks in July 1986. It's possible that pre-production, without the principal actors, occurred in late June, as they wouldn't have needed the American stars for all the scenes.

But by late July, they were already taping "Out of Peekskill", and they didn't take any taping hiatus until after December 16th.

That's surprising since I always got the impression that Beverly Ann already knew the gang BEFORE they went to Australia.

That's surprising since I always got the impression that Beverly Ann already knew the gang BEFORE they went to Australia.

It was filmed out of sequence. Australia was when Cloris met the cast.

She does seem similar to a Charlotte type. Motherly, red headed, famous career.

She does seem similar to a Charlotte type. Motherly, red headed, famous career.

Miss Ross's iconic character Mrs. C. seemed more of a spaz than did Mrs. G.

Now, if she was willing to throw off the yoke and be willing to stretch herself for the role, she COULD have actually done some dramatic scenes like Miss Rae could pull off!

She does seem similar to a Charlotte type. Motherly, red headed, famous career.

Yeah, definitely not afraid to joke about herself, either. And sometimes willing to get crazy for laughs. Remember the makeout scene with Fonzie? :lol:

Yeah, definitely not afraid to joke about herself, either. And sometimes willing to get crazy for laughs. Remember the makeout scene with Fonzie? :lol:

The WHAT!? :eek2:

The WHAT!? :eek2:
Marion Ross had an amazing sense of humor on Happy Days, the best instance being "that scene", shown starting at about 0:31 below.

K9w-msjhQlQ

Marion Ross had an amazing sense of humor on Happy Days, the best instance being "that scene", shown starting at about 0:31 below.

Ooohhhh, it wasn't part of the script. :lol:

An off topic question...

I don't remember if Mrs. Garrett is the youngest or the eldest of her family. Wikipedia says she is the youngest child of a large family. Did they ever say something on the show?

An off topic question...

I don't remember if Mrs. Garrett is the youngest or the eldest of her family. Wikipedia says she is the youngest child of a large family. Did they ever say something on the show?

Yes. Mrs. Garrett says she was the youngest in "Gossip", when she's trying to comfort Tootie about being the youngest ("Milk and cookies for the little baby.') However, during one of Beverly Ann's early introductions of herself, she says that she's the "much younger sister".

Yes. Mrs. Garrett says she was the youngest in "Gossip", when she's trying to comfort Tootie about being the youngest ("Milk and cookies for the little baby.') However, during one of Beverly Ann's early introductions of herself, she says that she's the "much younger sister".

The Little Chill, right? I guess she was just kidding :lol:

Thanks for the answer :wave:

Yes. Mrs. Garrett says she was the youngest in "Gossip", when she's trying to comfort Tootie about being the youngest ("Milk and cookies for the little baby.') However, during one of Beverly Ann's early introductions of herself, she says that she's the "much younger sister".

Miss Rae was born on April 22,1926 while Miss Leachman was born on April 30,1926. Eight days is not THAT much younger (though viewers might have been charitable and pretended that they were 'Irish [fraternal]twins' by different fathers)!

BTW, did they ever mention what Mrs. Garrett's and Ms. Stickle's original surname was?

Yes. Mrs. Garrett says she was the youngest in "Gossip", when she's trying to comfort Tootie about being the youngest ("Milk and cookies for the little baby.') However, during one of Beverly Ann's early introductions of herself, she says that she's the "much younger sister".

It's technically possible that both are correct. Mrs. Garrett could have been the youngest for years before Beverly Ann came along (too bad we never learned more of or saw any other Garrett siblings).

Miss Rae was born on April 22,1926 while Miss Leachman was born on April 30,1926. Eight days is not THAT much younger (though viewers might have been charitable and pretended that they were 'Irish [fraternal]twins' by different fathers)!

But just in the character world, Beverly Ann could be several years younger than Edna. On "Reba", Dorothy Lyman played Reba's mother, but Dorothy was just shy of being only 12 years older than Reba.

Anna Holbrook has always looked older than she is, so she often played characters much older than her real age. On "Another World" she was playing mother to a girl who, again, was only 12 years younger than her, but she looked old enough to be her mother.


BTW, did they ever mention what Mrs. Garrett's and Ms. Stickle's original surname was?

We never know! And I wanna know! :lol:

It's technically possible that both are correct. Mrs. Garrett could have been the youngest for years before Beverly Ann came along (too bad we never learned more of or saw any other Garrett siblings).

That's a good point: both could be true... but I spent years believing that Mrs. Garrett was the youngest, and that maybe, like ITA said, Beverly was joking about (or redefining) her age.

Beverly Ann was named after Charlotte's elder sister, so it could be possible that Edna was younger than Beverly Ann, like Charlotte with her real life sister.

What if Mrs. Garrett's original surname was Garrett? :lol:
In the reunion movie, Edna was still keeping her first husband name, Garrett, not Gaines. It doesn't make sense, a widowed woman that still goes under the name she had during her first marriage? I know the girls (and the public) were by then used to Mrs. Garrett but it's a little odd

What if Mrs. Garrett's original surname was Garrett? :lol:
In the reunion movie, Edna was still keeping her first husband name, Garrett, not Gaines. It doesn't make sense, a widowed woman that still goes under the name she had during her first marriage? I know the girls (and the public) were by then used to Mrs. Garrett but it's a little odd

That's a good point! And another point why I don't care for that project. :lol:

But maybe it wasn't legally "Gaines"? If only the girls said her name, it would make sense they'd still call her "Mrs. Garrett" since they'd been calling her that since their schooldays.

I doubt very much that BEVERLY ANN would be much younger than MRS G (maybe 2 years younger at most!): on the sitcom they looked about the same age lol! (no age gap difference visible there)

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

I doubt very much that BEVERLY ANN would be much younger than MRS G (maybe 2 years younger at most!): on the sitcom they looked about the same age lol! (no age gap difference visible there)

True, but it's not uncommon for actors to play characters quite different from their own ages. So if Mrs. Garrett was around 62 in season 8, then it's conceivable that Beverly Ann was around 55.

Cloris looked younger than Charlotte, so she could believably play a convincing younger sister.

Cloris looked younger than Charlotte, so she could believably play a convincing younger sister.


BEVERLY ANN certainly behaved like she was younger than MRS G with her crazy/hyper demeanour ("Young heart run free!") but to me she looked about the same age!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

BEVERLY ANN certainly behaved like she was younger than MRS G with her crazy/hyper demeanour ("Young heart run free!") but to me she looked about the same age!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Substitute the word 'childish' for 'younger' re Beverly Ann and we'll finally agree on something in the Forum!:lol:

Substitute the word 'childish' for 'younger' re Beverly Ann and we'll finally agree on something in the Forum!:lol:

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

She does seem similar to a Charlotte type. Motherly, red headed, famous career.

There was a short-lived spin-off of Who's the Boss called Living Dolls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Dolls) that featured Michael Learned, Leah Remini, and Halle Berry. The plot ostensibly sounds like it could be interpreted as The Facts of Life (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wAwLuR2ZLiwJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/09/26/living-dolls-cuteness-cluster/8f2b5d06-7b00-4921-a9e3-871a981b793a/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) if set in the world of modeling.

Both shows were about four young women (with Halle Berry like Kim Fields, being the resident woman of color among the main cast) and an older woman like Mrs. Garrett and later Beverly Ann, who was a mentor/surrogate mother figure (https://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2018/02/11/Happy-Days-icon-Marion-Ross-says-she-has-retired-from-acting/9611518372694/#:~:text=11%20(UPI)%20%2D%2D%20Happy%20Days,%2C%20I've%20done%20it.) to them. Leah Remini, I presume was playing the Jo archetype (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cVYCTF4kQdgJ:https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-09-26-ca-81-story.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), that being the tough, streetwise girl from New York. Michael Learned herself (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05O1z5uTot8), came to the conclusion that the writers wanted her to play her character on Living Dolls like Charlotte Rae would play hers on The Facts of Life.

And Michael added her belief that had Living Dolls lasted longer than it did, then Marion Ross would've eventually replaced (https://books.google.com/books?id=7OHIDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=living+dolls+marion+ross&source=bl&ots=G086jtWBZs&sig=ACfU3U09pKq7NN5o9qGy2pZr6JzEsOFxhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB0Lrt4Pb0AhWkd98KHdTADtcQ6AF6BAgQEAM#v=onepage&q=living%20dolls%20marion%20ross&f=false) her. Marion had appeared in about the final two episodes.

BEVERLY ANN certainly behaved like she was younger than MRS G with her crazy/hyper demeanour ("Young heart run free!") but to me she looked about the same age!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

I wonder if Cloris Leachman didn't get enough credit for what she brought during those final few years of the show. It's easy to just say that the show jumped the shark (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125219/http://www.jumptheshark.com/f/factsoflife.htm) when Charlotte Rae left, and maybe it did. But reading some of comments (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/) about the show elsewhere, it finally has to be understood that Beverly Ann wasn't exactly meant to be a "straight" replacement for Mrs. Garrett.

Sure, she's Mrs. Garrett's sister but instead of being the out and out "star" like Charlotte was, Cloris played more of landlady/quirky friend (kind of like her character on The Mary Tyler Moore Show) who was part of an ensemble. Beverly Ann you could say, needed the girls to provide a voice of reason as much they needed her. So she wasn't exactly a "mother-figure" to seek advice and wisdom from like her sister, Edna did for many years.