I hope that I don't sound like I'm jumping to conclusions, but I like many others wondered (https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/facts-of-life-live-nancy-mckeon-missing-cast-reunion/) where Nancy was at during the Live in Front of a Studio Audience special, when Mindy Cohn and Kim Fields joined Lisa Whelchel on stage, as Lisa was singing the Facts of Life theme song.

I can't never verify it, but I have read comments online that suggest that Nancy has all but divorced (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-8172.html) herself from The Facts of Life. That isn't to say that she has never participated in anything FOL related. I mean, she was at the TV Land Awards when TFOL was honored back in 2011.

And Lisa Whelchel claims (https://extratv.com/2021/12/08/lisa-whelchel-reveals-why-nancy-mckeon-missed-facts-of-life-live-show/) that Nancy couldn't make it to the Life in Front of a Studio Audience special because she and her family recently moved and her kids just got into school.

But supposedly, Nancy was always concerned about being typecast (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/TheFactsOfLife) as Jo Polniaczek. That's allegedly one of the main reasons (besides her commitment to the show The Division) why she was absent from the 2001 reunion movie.

Nancy McKeon is living in Texas and has very little interest in The Facts of Life. She's willing to appear at award shows, such as the TV Land Awards or the Paleyfest honors, but she's never going to make an appearance as Jo, wear an Eastland uniform, etc.

Thanks for sharing, TMC!
I think Nancy is still grateful for her role on Facts but, like many actors did before her, has always tried to distance herself from the role. On the other hand, Lisa has always appeared in documentaries, reunions and specials

She does have a love/hate relationship with the show during the years. She wanted Jo killed off for the 2001 reunion movie as a condition if she appeared.

She does have a love/hate relationship with the show during the years. She wanted Jo killed off for the 2001 reunion movie as a condition if she appeared.

I read she said she was joking. It sure is a bad thing to say on the character that brought you fame and fortune but I can't judge her if she wants to concentrate on her future rather than her past :wave:

I don't know why she hasn't done more of them but I assume the reason she appeared in the 2011 and 2014 public get-togethers was because they were running out of chances to have all four girls together with Charlotte Rae (and then Kim wasn't able to show up for 2014.)

They've all appeared individually on Youtube shows with Kim and Mindy, why not just do that, in character? They have more contact with each other these days than the girls would but they would belong to a website for Eastland graduates and given their history, they'd have a private group called "Over Our Heads." If nothing else, we should see their reactions to living in a world without Mrs. Garrett. "The Facts of..."

I absolutely do not write fan-fiction but I have definitely been putting a lot of thought into how this could work.

I don't know why she hasn't done more of them but I assume the reason she appeared in the 2011 and 2014 public get-togethers was because they were running out of chances to have all four girls together with Charlotte Rae (and then Kim wasn't able to show up for 2014.)

They've all appeared individually on Youtube shows with Kim and Mindy, why not just do that, in character?

Welcome, Chris!

I think Nancy McKeon has made it clear that she does NOT want to be known for Jo. She has moved on, and clearly feels as though the viewers should, too. Mindy, Kim, and Lisa can have their little reunions... but without Nancy M.

Nancy McKeon is living in Texas and has very little interest in The Facts of Life.

I hope you mean that you think she has very little interest in The Facts of Life regarding any new projects, because I hate the thought of her having very little interest at all, period in the show that brought her fame and fortune. She has to be grateful for it for that.

But she is so open to talking about it like in that podcast episode with her a few years ago. She shared wonderful memories about the show and, as far as I recall, didn't express any kind of remorse or regret or bitterness. She was an absolute delight the whole time.

What's really a shame is that they didn't just carry a laptop onto the "Live" set and have her on Zoom. With technology now there's pretty much no excuse why she couldn't be there unless she absolutely did not want to take part.

As far as the school excuse goes, it’s almost Christmas, and I think Nancy’s kids are teens. Do they really want mom around that badly? It’s not like “Live” needed her for rehearsal. She could have gone in and out. At this point, the lack of acknowledgment is just getting tired.

I think she was inclined to to do the other shows because she wanted to honor Charlotte Rae, who had been battling cancer; and I think she did well!

As far as the school excuse goes, it’s almost Christmas, and I think Nancy’s kids are teens. Do they really want mom around that badly? It’s not like “Live” needed her for rehearsal. She could have gone in and out. At this point, the lack of acknowledgment is just getting tired.

She just isn't interested. She definitely could have gone out, but why? To see someone do a caricature of Jo? I can see why she wouldn't be interested in that, although it's not clear anyone knew how poor Kathryn's impression of Jo would be until it hit the airwaves.


I think she was inclined to to do the other shows because she wanted to honor Charlotte Rae, who had been battling cancer; and I think she did well!

Yeah, she said so herself: to honor Charlotte.

I hope you mean that you think she has very little interest in The Facts of Life regarding any new projects, because I hate the thought of her having very little interest at all, period in the show that brought her fame and fortune. She has to be grateful for it for that.

But she is so open to talking about it like in that podcast episode with her a few years ago. She shared wonderful memories about the show and, as far as I recall, didn't express any kind of remorse or regret or bitterness. She was an absolute delight the whole time.

I think from time to time, she doesn't mind reminiscing. But she's been very clear that Jo is dead to her: literally, in a coffin. Never again. No.


What's really a shame is that they didn't just carry a laptop onto the "Live" set and have her on Zoom. With technology now there's pretty much no excuse why she couldn't be there unless she absolutely did not want to take part.

She absolutely did not want to take part. Everyone else showed up. Jo is permanently playing hooky from Eastland.

.

.


Ha ha that's the poster from MEAN GIRLS lol!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Ha ha that's the poster from MEAN GIRLS lol!



Yes, it sure is! It's Christmas season, now, so a Regina-George-Christmas-themed meme seemed in order! :lol:

:santa::santa::santa::santa: :music:

Is it safe to say that Nancy McKeon sucks, and the Jo Polniaczek character sucks, too? :(

Is it safe to say that Nancy McKeon sucks, and the Jo Polniaczek character sucks, too? :(

I wouldn’t go that far, Jo was very popular but Nancy wanted to avoid type casting so she distanced herself from the role.

I wouldn’t go that far, Jo was very popular but Nancy wanted to avoid type casting so she distanced herself from the role.

I recently read (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/post-304573) that the plot in the series finale about Blair buying Eastland, appointing herself the new headmistress, and making Eastland co-ed was originally developed for Nancy McKeon. The idea and plan was that they would've had Jo come back to Eastland to teach. So in a sense, it would've been a Welcome Back, Kotter type of show if it took place at a private boarding school. But when Nancy decided that she didn't want to go through with it, the script was hastily rewritten as a vehicle for Lisa Whelchel.

I recently read (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/post-304573) that the plot in the series finale about Blair buying Eastland, appointing herself the new headmistress, and making Eastland co-ed was originally developed for Nancy McKeon. The idea and plan was that they would've had Jo come back to Eastland to teach. So in a sense, it would've been a Welcome Back, Kotter type of show if it took place at a private boarding school. But when Nancy decided that she didn't want to go through with it, the script was hastily rewritten as a vehicle for Lisa Whelchel.



But that doesn't make any sense at all: JO never felt passionate about Eastland the way BLAIR did! (she even said, that it was just a school she attended, and that the Bronx was home).

For BLAIR on the other hand: Eastland was home!

PS: those writers have everything mix up i swear!


:typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing:

I recently read (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/post-304573) that the plot in the series finale about Blair buying Eastland, appointing herself the new headmistress, and making Eastland co-ed was originally developed for Nancy McKeon. The idea and plan was that they would've had Jo come back to Eastland to teach. So in a sense, it would've been a Welcome Back, Kotter type of show if it took place at a private boarding school. But when Nancy decided that she didn't want to go through with it, the script was hastily rewritten as a vehicle for Lisa Whelchel.

They got no evidence to back up their claims on that.

I always found it ironic that Nancy M.'s brother Phillip viewed his time on Alice completely different. He was like how Lisa viewed Facts of Life. They both would reprise their roles many years later if they could.

Just because two people are silblings doesn't mean they think a like.

People in the old Television Without Pity (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411051851/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2625067-the-facts-of-life/page-26) forums have speculated (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411051851/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2625067-the-facts-of-life/page-26#entry9123166) that Nancy has always been very sensitive as to her own appearance back in the '80s, when she was making The Facts of Life.

People in the old Television Without Pity (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411051851/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2625067-the-facts-of-life/page-26) forums have speculated (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411051851/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2625067-the-facts-of-life/page-26#entry9123166) that Nancy has always been very sensitive as to her own appearance back in the '80s, when she was making The Facts of Life.

In the first link I saw that someone said that Kim called Lisa "Julie Pie". I never seen that anywhere my self. Next to Mindy, I think Kim is closest to Julie Pie.
With the video I posted before, Kim did have attitude. That sigh and sotto voce "oh, my goodness" was a forewarning of something to happen. And I agree had Lisa not shown up, she would've rolled her eyes and sighed the whole time. In the same token, it was a little odd---the "I could keep in touch if you stop changing your number"---hmm. And why did Kim call Lisa "Julie Pie"? Getting her co-stars confused?

I guess Miss McKeon is done being willing to 'take the bad'!

Nancy was on Mindy Cohn's podcast not to long ago:
-dP9FaerJL8

It's kind of weird hearing Nancy talk in her "real voice" instead of her "Jo voice". She actually is from New York, she was born in Westbury instead of the Bronx.

Nancy was on Mindy Cohn's podcast not to long ago:
-dP9FaerJL8

It's kind of weird hearing Nancy talk in her "real voice" instead of her "Jo voice". She actually is from New York, she was born in Westbury instead of the Bronx.

Nancy M's voice was Jo's voice early on. It became LAed through the years. Here is Nancy M. in a "One to Grow On" PSA. She sounds just like Jo here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFzn05VRcI

In the first link I saw that someone said that Kim called Lisa "Julie Pie". I never seen that anywhere my self. Next to Mindy, I think Kim is closest to Julie Pie.
With the video I posted before, Kim did have attitude. That sigh and sotto voce "oh, my goodness" was a forewarning of something to happen. And I agree had Lisa not shown up, she would've rolled her eyes and sighed the whole time. In the same token, it was a little odd---the "I could keep in touch if you stop changing your number"---hmm. And why did Kim call Lisa "Julie Pie"? Getting her co-stars confused?

I have seen that interview, thought I don't remember which talk show it was. The host said something like, "Here's an old friend you haven't seen in a long time," and then they brought out Lisa, while Kim guessed audibly that they were bringing out Julie Pie. She wasn't confusing Lisa and Julie Pie, she just guessed the wrong cast member, possibly because Julie Pie had just been in touch with her.

Nancy did participate in Entertainment Weekly's oral history of TFOL in 2015, whereas Mindy and Kim did not (they released statements expressing their gratitude for the show, but noting that they want to look forward and such).

Nancy did participate in Entertainment Weekly's oral history of TFOL in 2015, whereas Mindy and Kim did not (they released statements expressing their gratitude for the show, but noting that they want to look forward and such).

Yeah, that EW Oral History interview was so rare for actually having Nancy McKeon in it. Aside from awards ceremonies, she's done very few interviews about Facts since the show left the airwaves.

As far as I know, Nancy has said she's proud of her time on FOL but that she doesn't want to be defined by it for the rest of her life. In fairness, would a regular 55 year old want to spend the rest of their life being defined by something they did between 14-22? Facts opened doors for it, she's appeared in a few cast get-togethers and even did Mindy's podcast, she just doesn't want to put on an Eastland uniform and ponytail again and I don't really blame her.

As far as I know, Nancy has said she's proud of her time on FOL but that she doesn't want to be defined by it for the rest of her life. In fairness, would a regular 55 year old want to spend the rest of their life being defined by something they did between 14-22? Facts opened doors for it, she's appeared in a few cast get-togethers and even did Mindy's podcast, she just doesn't want to put on an Eastland uniform and ponytail again and I don't really blame her.

Well, you don't have to put on an Eastland uniform in order to celebrate the show.

Lisa, however, loves it, and has donned her Eastland uniform twice over the years.

As far as I know, Nancy has said she's proud of her time on FOL but that she doesn't want to be defined by it for the rest of her life. In fairness, would a regular 55 year old want to spend the rest of their life being defined by something they did between 14-22?

No. But, in fairness, she is fated to be defined by it for the rest of her life whether she likes it or not, lol.



Well, you don't have to put on an Eastland uniform in order to celebrate the show.

Lisa, however, loves it, and has donned her Eastland uniform twice over the years.

Yes, and we love her for that!

If Nancy M.'s brother was still living, he probably would still be heavily involved in "Alice" events. He was much more like Lisa than his sister in embracing his teen stardom role.

If Nancy M.'s brother was still living, he probably would still be heavily involved in "Alice" events. He was much more like Lisa than his sister in embracing his teen stardom role.

Are there actually Alice events?

Are there actually Alice events?

He participated in Alice fans events from time to time. The surviving waitresses are too busy reliving old grudges to have reunions.

Nancy M's voice was Jo's voice early on. It became LAed through the years. Here is Nancy M. in a "One to Grow On" PSA. She sounds just like Jo here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFzn05VRcI

It sort of reminds me of Alyssa Milano on Who's the Boss? In the first year, she spoke with a rather heavy New York accent. Alyssa like her TV dad, Tony Danza, really is from Brooklyn. But over time, as her character presumably, got more assimilated to the suburban life in Connecticut, her character's accent lessoned.

He participated in Alice fans events from time to time. The surviving waitresses are too busy reliving old grudges to have reunions.

It's rumored that Linda Lavin's alleged enormous ego wouldn't let her through the door anyway. ;)

It sort of reminds me of Alyssa Milano on Who's the Boss? In the first year, she spoke with a rather heavy New York accent. Alyssa like her TV dad, Tony Danza, really is from Brooklyn. But over time, as her character presumably, got more assimilated to the suburban life in Connecticut, her character's accent lessoned.

Good point! :nod:

It's rumored that Linda Lavin's alleged enormous ego wouldn't let her through the door anyway. ;)

We always believed Linda Lavin had been the cause of friction on the set of Alice, and the reason waitresses kept disappearing. There was even an ET-style story about it at the time. Of course, very little has ever been said, and not really by Polly Holliday.

We always believed Linda Lavin had been the cause of friction on the set of Alice, and the reason waitresses kept disappearing. There was even an ET-style story about it at the time. Of course, very little has ever been said, and not really by Polly Holliday.

Right? It's a fascinating case.

A cyber-friend of mine who is a HUGE "Alice" fan once met Marvin Kaplan, who played recurring Mel's Diner customer Henry the phone repairman. He asked Marvin if everyone got along on the set, and he said Marvin said to him with a wink, "That's what you call good acting."

:lookaroun

We always believed Linda Lavin had been the cause of friction on the set of Alice, and the reason waitresses kept disappearing. There was even an ET-style story about it at the time. Of course, very little has ever been said, and not really by Polly Holliday.

Off topic.... Linda Lavin stunk compared to Vic Tayback and Polly Holliday. Beth Howland was also better than her IMO. The only one Linda was better than was the "Belle DuPree" character played by Diane Ladd. Jolene a.k.a. Celia Weston was also better than Linda Lavin. I don't even know why the show was even called "Alice." It should have been called "Mel's Diner." IMO, the best actor and character was Mel Sharples a.k.a. Vic Tayback

The only one Linda was better than was the "Belle DuPree" character played by Diane Ladd.

And coincidentally, Ladd was the only one of the cast who won an Emmy for the show, lol. I bet Linda was STEAMED.


I don't even know why the show was even called "Alice." It should have been called "Mel's Diner." IMO, the best actor and character was Mel Sharples a.k.a. Vic Tayback

Mel's fine, but I'm with the majority: It's the "Flo show" lol. But yes, it really is a shame it wasn't called "Mel's Diner."

Mel's alright, but I'm with the majority: It's the "Flo show" lol. But yes, it really is a shame it wasn't called "Mel's Diner."

Flo was definitely my favorite waitress. Too bad Linda wasn't canned instead of Polly.

As for the Nancy McKeon episodes, I'm torn on which I liked better, the one when she was an orphan having Thanksgiving dinner at Mel's or when she was dressed as a gypsy for Halloween years later playing the daughter of Alice's boyfriend. I guess I'd pick the orphan episode. She was a really cute kid. I think she looked a lot like her brother Philip even though they had different colored hair.

Flo was definitely my favorite waitress.

When I was little, mine was Vera. Now it's totally Flo.


Too bad Linda wasn't canned instead of Polly.

Right? Just think of those ratings going through the roof had that been the case.

It is interesting how/why they didn't get rid of Linda as being "difficult" and focus on much more popular Polly as their meal ticket Flo and retitle it "Mel's Diner." Just several years later, TV fan favorite Valerie Harper would be canned from her own sitcom, titled --- "Valerie"! That was unthinkable at the time.

Right? Just think of those ratings going through the roof had that been the case.

It is interesting how/why they didn't get rid of Linda as being "difficult" and focus on much more popular Polly as their meal ticket Flo and retitle it "Mel's Diner." Just several years later, TV fan favorite Valerie Harper would be canned from her own sitcom, titled --- "Valerie"! That was unthinkable at the time.
And Roseanne Barr being fired from "Roseanne" so the show could be renamed "The Conners."

Like you said, the ratings would have gone through the roof if Polly remained instead of Linda.

Yeah, Linda was definitely unique in succeeding with the behind-the-scenes hullabaloo instead of being ousted herself.

And Roseanne Barr being fired from "Roseanne" so the show could be renamed "The Conners."

Like you said, the ratings would have gone through the roof if Polly remained instead of Linda.

The thing is that Linda Lavin never made a "joke" about an African-American person.

Roseanne could be as offensive as she wanted behind the scenes, getting in feuds with the Seinfeld cast over parking spaces, causing Carsey-Warner to vacate the set, treating staff members poorly, calling writers by numbers, etc., but she was fired after making that racist tweet.

Linda Lavin apparently knows the value of her audience. As mean as she is behind the scenes (and I do believe she is), she's never let that side of her show to the public.

Off topic.... Linda Lavin stunk compared to Vic Tayback and Polly Holliday. Beth Howland was also better than her IMO. The only one Linda was better than was the "Belle DuPree" character played by Diane Ladd. Jolene a.k.a. Celia Weston was also better than Linda Lavin. I don't even know why the show was even called "Alice." It should have been called "Mel's Diner." IMO, the best actor and character was Mel Sharples a.k.a. Vic Tayback

It was called Alice because it was based on the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore". Vic Tayback, Diane Ladd, and the original Tommy was in the movie.

It was called Alice because it was based on the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore". Vic Tayback, Diane Ladd, and the original Tommy was in the movie.
So what. As a sitcom, the show did not revolve around Alice. It revolved around Mel's Diner so the show should have been called "Mel's Diner."

It was called Alice because it was based on the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore". Vic Tayback, Diane Ladd, and the original Tommy was in the movie.

We know. We just mean the show ended becoming such an ensemble piece that the title "Alice" didn't really fit. It should have been "Mel's Diner".

But since the film was "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", maybe they could have tried the test TV title "Alice Does Work Here Now". :lol:

As mean as she is behind the scenes (and I do believe she is), she's never let that side of her show to the public.

Yes, she seems to be very calculating in how she comes off to the public (or thinks she does).

But since the film was "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", maybe they could have tried the test TV title "Alice Does Work Here Now". :lol:

:brent

Or maybe they could have fired Linda Lavin, and retitled the show "Alice Doesn't Work Here Anymore".

:brent

Or maybe they could have fired Linda Lavin, and retitled the show "Alice Doesn't Work Here Anymore".

:lol:

Well, you don't have to put on an Eastland uniform in order to celebrate the show.

Lisa, however, loves it, and has donned her Eastland uniform twice over the years.

Lisa and Nancy are very different though. Lisa mostly dedicated herself to FOL after 1982 or so, whereas Nancy was already building a resume up doing a lot of dramatic work while FOL was still on the air. Plus when Facts wrapped, Lisa retired for about 25 years and got married and became a mother while Nancy worked steadily through the 90s into the early 2000s and then got married and became a mom when she was pushing 40 and her career was slowing down. Lisa's entire claim to fame is FOL and accepts that, while Nancy worked hard for years to distance herself from Jo. Hell, even Mindy who for many years was doing everything FOL-related finally reached a "I'm tired of talking about a show I did in my teens" stage, Kim did the same especially considering she had another hit series in the 90s.

Right? Just think of those ratings going through the roof had that been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, Alice did well for awhile after Flo left. #7 in 1980-1981 and #5 in 1981-1982. It only really began to plunge in 1982-1983 in its seventh season when it was moved up against FOL as well as Dynasty (which was so big I believe it also hurt FOL from having stronger ratings in those seasons. Dynasty was #1 in 1984-1985 when FOL was #34). The later seasons of Alice were really bad so its fall from the height of the ratings wasn't really a surprise, I'm surprised it limped as long as it did into 1985 honestly.

So what. As a sitcom, the show did not revolve around Alice. It revolved around Mel's Diner so the show should have been called "Mel's Diner."

The real early episodes of Alice did largely revolve around her. It was when they realized the audience liked Mel and Flo better than it changed. Most of the season 1 episodes are front and center about Alice.

Lisa and Nancy are very different though. Lisa mostly dedicated herself to FOL after 1982 or so, whereas Nancy was already building a resume up doing a lot of dramatic work while FOL was still on the air. Plus when Facts wrapped, Lisa retired for about 25 years and got married and became a mother while Nancy worked steadily through the 90s into the early 2000s and then got married and became a mom when she was pushing 40 and her career was slowing down. Lisa's entire claim to fame is FOL and accepts that, while Nancy worked hard for years to distance herself from Jo. Hell, even Mindy who for many years was doing everything FOL-related finally reached a "I'm tired of talking about a show I did in my teens" stage, Kim did the same especially considering she had another hit series in the 90s.

And Kim currently has a hit series "The Upshaws".

Contrary to popular belief, Alice did well for awhile after Flo left. #7 in 1980-1981 and #5 in 1981-1982. It only really began to plunge in 1982-1983 in its seventh season

Yeah, it was the same after Delta and Jean left Designing Women. The highest ratings for the show were actually the first year without them.

In these kinds of instances I think part of it is curious audiences tuning in to see, who're they gonna get to replace them? What's it gonna be like? Will it be good? And they keep tuning in to see how it's developing.

Lisa and Nancy are very different though. Lisa mostly dedicated herself to FOL after 1982 or so, whereas Nancy was already building a resume up doing a lot of dramatic work while FOL was still on the air. Plus when Facts wrapped, Lisa retired for about 25 years and got married and became a mother while Nancy worked steadily through the 90s into the early 2000s and then got married and became a mom when she was pushing 40 and her career was slowing down. Lisa's entire claim to fame is FOL and accepts that, while Nancy worked hard for years to distance herself from Jo. Hell, even Mindy who for many years was doing everything FOL-related finally reached a "I'm tired of talking about a show I did in my teens" stage, Kim did the same especially considering she had another hit series in the 90s.

I know that I'm speculating, but I wonder if it bothered Nancy a bit that people often wondered (https://whatculture.com/offbeat/10-kids-tv-characters-totally-gay-icons?page=6) if Jo was supposed to be gay (https://www.gayestepisodeever.com/episodes/jo-facts-of-life-lesbian-episode). And therefore, Nancy was as an actress, seen as being incapable of playing women who were traditionally more feminine because she was so identified as Jo.

Yeah, it was the same after Delta and Jean left Designing Women. The highest ratings for the show were actually the first year without them.

In these kinds of instances I think part of it is curious audiences tuning in to see, who're they gonna get to replace them? What's it gonna be like? Will it be good? And they keep tuning in to see how it's developing.

I think season 6 of DW benefitted from airing right after Murphy Brown which was peaking in the 91-92 season, yanking it to the Friday night death slot (which also killed Major Dad which had been top 10 the season prior as well as Golden Palace) sealed the deal. I'd argue that Judith Ivey was a better cast addition than Julia Duffy but the bad taste if season 6 was impossible to recover from

I know that I'm speculating, but I wonder if it bothered Nancy a bit that people often wondered (https://whatculture.com/offbeat/10-kids-tv-characters-totally-gay-icons?page=6) if Jo was supposed to be gay (https://www.gayestepisodeever.com/episodes/jo-facts-of-life-lesbian-episode). And therefore, Nancy was as an actress, seen as being incapable of playing women who were traditionally more feminine because she was so identified as Jo.

Not so sure because Nancy did a lesbian role in the 90s in a movie called Teresa's Tattoo perhaps best known today because the lead actress was murdered

I know that I'm speculating, but I wonder if it bothered Nancy a bit that people often wondered (https://whatculture.com/offbeat/10-kids-tv-characters-totally-gay-icons?page=6) if Jo was supposed to be gay (https://www.gayestepisodeever.com/episodes/jo-facts-of-life-lesbian-episode). And therefore, Nancy was as an actress, seen as being incapable of playing women who were traditionally more feminine because she was so identified as Jo.

It's very hard for me to picture Nancy as feminine. It's because Facts hammered home so hard that Jo was TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH in her first several years on the show. Even when she's wearing a dress, it doesn't seem natural, whereas Nancy may actually enjoy wearing dresses. But I can never see her as "feminine".

Meredith Baxter(-Birney), on the other hand, is a lesbian, but I never think of that when I see Family Ties. She comes off so natural in her femininity that I totally buy into Elyse being a devoted wife deeply in love with her husband.

But Nancy, I can never see as anything but TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH with a "manly shell" all because of what Facts did to her for her first 5 seasons or so.

It's very hard for me to picture Nancy as feminine. It's because Facts hammered home so hard that Jo was TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH in her first several years on the show. Even when she's wearing a dress, it doesn't seem natural, whereas Nancy may actually enjoy wearing dresses. But I can never see her as "feminine".

Meredith Baxter(-Birney), on the other hand, is a lesbian, but I never think of that when I see Family Ties. She comes off so natural in her femininity that I totally buy into Elyse being a devoted wife deeply in love with her husband.

But Nancy, I can never see as anything but TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH with a "manly shell" all because of what Facts did to her for her first 5 seasons or so.
On the contrary, Kelly Afinado made Jo look as effortlessly feminine as Blair yet Pamela Adlon has been in a lot of things as an adult and I buy her as feminine

It's very hard for me to picture Nancy as feminine. It's because Facts hammered home so hard that Jo was TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH in her first several years on the show. Even when she's wearing a dress, it doesn't seem natural, whereas Nancy may actually enjoy wearing dresses. But I can never see her as "feminine".

Meredith Baxter(-Birney), on the other hand, is a lesbian, but I never think of that when I see Family Ties. She comes off so natural in her femininity that I totally buy into Elyse being a devoted wife deeply in love with her husband.

But Nancy, I can never see as anything but TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH with a "manly shell" all because of what Facts did to her for her first 5 seasons or so.I agree totally. To me, I see almost nothing feminine about "Jo" a.k.a. Nancy. Her mannerisms are manly and awkward. She also seems awkward in dresses. I also agree about Meredith Birney. She is very feminine, a lovely woman and nothing manly about her. She was always so effortlessly beautiful and feminine.

BTW, Jo may have been "tough" but she punches like a wimp compared to Sue Ann Weaver who punches like a boxer but still manages to look and act very feminine.

BTW, Jo may have been "tough" but she punches like a wimp compared to Sue Ann Weaver who punches like a boxer but still manages to look and act very feminine.

Yeah, that "Best Sister" punch was the lamest punch ever. I seriously don't know why they didn't do another take. The director should have seen that and asked for another take of the scene.

Sue Ann is not butch at all, but she packs quite the punch! :boxing:

Oh, and count me in as a Meredith Baxter-Birney fan; I'd even say she was often elegant on FT.

On the contrary, Kelly Afinado made Jo look as effortlessly feminine as Blair yet Pamela Adlon has been in a lot of things as an adult and I buy her as feminine

Pamela has a butch quality, even today, that I really like. She swears like a sailor and sort of commands attention, and I love it.

Oh, and count me in as a Meredith Baxter-Birney fan; I'd even say she was often elegant on FT.

I'm watching her mom right now on "Hazel." Whitney Blake was another beauty.

I'm watching her mom right now on "Hazel." Whitney Blake was another beauty.

Weirdly, I have never seen Hazel... not even a clip.

Meredith Baxter's mother also created One Day At A Time

Meredith Baxter's mother also created One Day At A Time

My understanding is that it's the sitcom version of their family.

Pamela has a butch quality, even today, that I really like. She swears like a sailor and sort of commands attention, and I love it.

Mindy's like that except for the butch part. She swears like a sailor and uses graphic words.