Today is October the 12th, otherwise known as "10/12", International Warren Littlefield Day. For whatever that day is worth. Which isn't much, if you ask "Facts" or "Mama's Family" fans. ;)

Ahahahahahahaha!

.....ahahahahahaha!

:brent

That's hilarious!

:lol: :crazy: :happyface :lol:

I don't get it. (I get that some FOL fans felt he may have ruined things, I don't get the October 12th, 10/12 part).

Warren is infamous for incorrectly stating in a Facts of Life documentary that season 1 was a disaster because you had these "10, 12 girls" overcrowding the show. There were 7 girls. His gross overestimation was getting near double the actual number.

And I mentioned MF as well because in the cast round table reunion on the DVD bonus features they talk about how out of touch and ignorant the suits were about things, and Dorothy Lyman specifically calls him out with disdain ("Warren Li-ttle-field"), and the others agree.

Yeah, you can see Warren Littlefield's exaggeration a little after the 17-minute mark in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y72fTKZTWk4).

While I wish Sue Ann would have been kept longer, the core cast of 5 from seasons 2-7 was great, and Jo was an excellent addition. I prefer Jo to any of the season 1 girls who weren't kept except for Sue Ann. Good riddance to Molly, and while Nancy was nice to look at she was barely used. Some fans act like season 1 was the only good one. But if that overall season 1 cast was kept, FOL would have been lucky to even reach 4 seasons.

Also, while there only 7 girls, season 1 still had an overall cast of 10 adding Mrs. Garrett, Mr. Bradley, and that other useless female teacher. So maybe his terminology was wrong, but FOL still had an overall cast of 10 regulars.

While I wish Sue Ann would have been kept longer, the core cast of 5 from seasons 2-7 was great, and Jo was an excellent addition. I prefer Jo to any of the season 1 girls who weren't kept except for Sue Ann. Good riddance to Molly, and while Nancy was nice to look at she was barely used.

It's definitely true that Nancy was barely used. After the backdoor pilot, she was lucky to get ten lines per episode, and sometimes, it was only seven. But what if the lines had been more even? What if Felice had been allowed to keep her idea about calling Baryshnikov, instead of those lines being given to Lisa, while Felice stands there? What if Nancy had been the girl trying to save Chestnut in the stables, in Flash Flood? We might have seen Felice shine, instead of her just being "girl on the phone".


Some fans act like season 1 was the only good one. But if that overall season 1 cast was kept, FOL would have been lucky to even reach 4 seasons.

We'll never know now. Head of the Class made five seasons with 42, 51 students. (Okay, that's me "Littlefielding things up" in honor of this very special holiday).

Also, while there only 7 girls, season 1 still had an overall cast of 10 adding Mrs. Garrett, Mr. Bradley, and that other useless female teacher. So maybe his terminology was wrong, but FOL still had an overall cast of 10 regulars.

True, but not ten girls. And definitely not twelve, either. Unless you count guest actresses... but then you might as well say Season 2-4 had ten, twelve girls, too.

It's definitely true that Nancy was barely used. After the backdoor pilot, she was lucky to get ten lines per episode, and sometimes, it was only seven.

And sometimes it was even less!


We'll never know now. Head of the Class made five seasons with 42, 51 students. (Okay, that's me "Littlefielding things up" in honor of this very special holiday).

:lol:


True, but not ten girls.

Yes, he specifically (and foolishly) says Mrs. Garrett had 10, 12 girls---at the exact same time they're showing a photo with all 7 of her girls.

And sometimes it was even less!

Yep. In "Rough Housing", Nancy has just four lines, "Overachieving": five lines, "Emily Dickinson": four lines, "The Facts of Love": three lines, and "Dope": six lines.*

Tootie even gets most of the lines about Nancy not making it into "The Group" in "Dope". Then Mrs. Garrett leads Nancy out to the pasture to put a flower in her hair, and later Mrs. Garrett gets together with Blair, Sue Ann, Tootie, and Natalie to give the girls in "our group" a big hug. End of season!


Yes, he specifically (and foolishly) says Mrs. Garrett had 10, 12 girls---at the exact same time they're showing a photo with all 7 of her girls.

Yeah, the voiceover on the image makes no sense.

*That's fifty, ninety percent of the shows that season. https://www.sitcomsonline.com/ubb/wink.gif

And I mentioned MF as well because in the cast round table reunion on the DVD bonus features they talk about how out of touch and ignorant the suits were about things, and Dorothy Lyman specifically calls him out with disdain ("Warren Li-ttle-field"), and the others agree.

Does Dorothy Lyman go into any details about Warren Littlefield? Or is it more of a "they just didn't get it"-type thing specifically naming WL?

Does Dorothy Lyman go into any details about Warren Littlefield? Or is it more of a "they just didn't get it"-type thing specifically naming WL?

The latter. Everyone agrees very affirmatively, so you get a feeling of "Yup, him, mm-hmm" from them.

that other useless female teacher.

But was Miss Mahoney really useless? In "Overachieving", Mrs. Garrett has to confide in Blair and Sue Ann about Tootie's dad wanting her to stay away from Tootie. But it would have been a lot more realistic for Mrs. Garrett to confide in Miss Mahoney, and then have the girls overhear the problem. Here we have Mrs. Garrett being unprofessional, almost (in a way) validating what Mr. Ramsey is saying about her.

Without Mrs. Garrett confiding in an adult friend, Mrs. Garrett now has to confide in Howard the Cook (she does so in "Gossip"), or just tells the girls things she shouldn't tell them. Mrs. Garrett's world is now reduced to just four girls, since her sons are rarely seen. We won't get those meaningful cups of coffee with other faculty/staff members, we won't get those scenes where Mrs. Garrett vents her frustrations to a fellow adult, and we won't get Miss Mahoney explaining the history of Eastland anymore. The prestige of Eastland is thus diminished, and we'll rarely see its classrooms anymore.

You make a great point about them barely using Nancy; it is so odd that after "IQ", they gave her nothing to do. But there's no reason they couldn't have thrown her a line now and then. Nancy for sure should have gotten the Baryshnikov bit, especially since it was Felice's suggestion, and it was on the phone!

As you say, Sue Ann was a strong character. There were so many episodes where having Sue Ann around really could have balanced the scripts a bit more: alternatives to abortion, respect for teachers and authority figures, and believable episodes where conservative characters talk about God, or at least family values, morals, or religion. When we lost Sue Ann, the show lost the ability to cover a wider range of opinions on many serious topics. Jo suddenly has to suddenly become religious in "Best Sister". No-one talks about the morality of abortion in "The Source". And everyone agrees banning books is a terrible idea in "Read No Evil". We lost an important voice with the silencing of Sue Ann.

The latter. Everyone agrees very affirmatively, so you get a feeling of "Yup, him, mm-hmm" from them.

Hahaha! :lol:

Not that same kinda thing, but very funny! :lol:

Also, I'm very glad Hallmark doesn't have cards for this day. :lol:

I truly agree with Retro: by firing the 'Lost girls', we lost so many important lines for all the important stories and situation that came in after season 2 indeed: abortion, suicide, child porno, paedophilia, bullying, running away etc.... all in where we could have had MOLLY, CINDY, NANCY and SUE ANN play their part, or even their own episode.

Warren is infamous for incorrectly stating in a Facts of Life documentary that season 1 was a disaster because you had these "10, 12 girls" overcrowding the show. There were 7 girls. His gross overestimation was getting near double the actual number.

And I mentioned MF as well because in the cast round table reunion on the DVD bonus features they talk about how out of touch and ignorant the suits were about things, and Dorothy Lyman specifically calls him out with disdain ("Warren Li-ttle-field"), and the others agree.

Never heard of the Mama's Family of Warren Li-ttle-field.

Also, while there only 7 girls, season 1 still had an overall cast of 10 adding Mrs. Garrett, Mr. Bradley, and that other useless female teacher. So maybe his terminology was wrong, but FOL still had an overall cast of 10 regulars.

Didn't the Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Happy Days, before the Facts of Life had a large cast? Even other Norman Lear productions had large casts, such as All in the Family, Archie Bunker's Place, Good Times had large casts. Shows after the Facts of Life also had large casts like Save by the Bell, Step by Step, Head of the Class.

Yeah, you can see Warren Littlefield's exaggeration a little after the 17-minute mark in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y72fTKZTWk4).

He also seemed to have an axe to grind with a 12 year old girl, calling her out personally for not making the cut.

He also seemed to have an axe to grind with a 12 year old girl, calling her out personally for not making the cut.

I think he must have been specifically asked how they dumped THE Molly Ringwald.

I feel like Molly's character needed toned down, not jettisoned entirely. There were so many episodes where Molly's sense of social justice could have come in handy. "Read No Evil", for example, or "Different Drummer".

Didn't the Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Happy Days, before the Facts of Life had a large cast? Even other Norman Lear productions had large casts, such as All in the Family, Archie Bunker's Place, Good Times had large casts. Shows after the Facts of Life also had large casts like Save by the Bell, Step by Step, Head of the Class.

There have been a hundred shows with large casts. If Degrassi could do it with 30 students, The Facts of Life could do it with seven.

Didn't the Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Happy Days, before the Facts of Life had a large cast? Even other Norman Lear productions had large casts, such as All in the Family, Archie Bunker's Place, Good Times had large casts. Shows after the Facts of Life also had large casts like Save by the Bell, Step by Step, Head of the Class.My point was that Warren was correct on the 10 regulars part, which was the low end of his 10-12. He just used the wrong term of girls instead of series regulars. And of those 10 regulars only one of them was a man. All in the Family was just 4 series regulars for most of its run. As for The Partridge Family, they only had 7 regulars. Which was really more 5 since Chris and Tracey rarely got featured much. Step by Step I haven't seen much of. Maybe I would like it more now. But I doubt I would like it on the level of My Two Dads. Staci Keanan probably got more to do there since she was the only child on My Two Dads. With Step by Step's huge cast her role was likely reduced from her previous show. Head of the Class I like the Howard Hesseman seasons. But characters like Jawarhalal never got a storyline of their own because of the huge cast.

My point was that Warren was correct on the 10 regulars part, which was the low end of his 10-12. He just used the wrong term of girls instead of series regulars. And of those 10 regulars only one of them was a man. All in the Family was just 4 series regulars for most of its run. As for The Partridge Family, they only had 7 regulars. Which was really more 5 since Chris and Tracey rarely got featured much. Step by Step I haven't seen much of. Maybe I would like it more now. But I doubt I would like it on the level of My Two Dads. Staci Keanan probably got more to do there since she was the only child on My Two Dads. With Step by Step's huge cast her role was likely reduced from her previous show. Head of the Class I like the Howard Hesseman seasons. But characters like Jawarhalal never got a storyline of their own because of the huge cast.

Staci Keanan had a major role in Step by Step as well.

Yeah, Staci's/Dana's role was about the biggest on that show: about the size of Cody, Frank, JT, or Carol's, I guess. In later years, Dana's boyfriend even becomes a cast member, and she's the only one whose boyfriend becomes a major character. Near the end, Brendan gets "Judy Winslowed" in favor of several random characters.

Hahahaha very funny thread Eightsy! Lots of shows work fine with big casts and FOL could’ve done fine too, but it worked out for them in the end anyway. And yes Dana was a big sbs character, despite having 6 other kids now to share screentime with

:lol::lol::lol:

Just because you have a large cast doesn't mean everyone has to have equal time and stories. The younger kids on Step by Step were not as visible as Dana, JT, Al, Frank, Carol, and the cousin there.

My point was that Warren was correct on the 10 regulars part, which was the low end of his 10-12. He just used the wrong term of girls instead of series regulars.

I think he was exaggerating just the number of girls because he specifically said Mrs. Garrett had 10, 12 girls.

Just because you have a large cast doesn't mean everyone has to have equal time and stories. The younger kids on Step by Step were not as visible as Dana, JT, Al, Frank, Carol, and the cousin there.

That's true. The earlier seasons were more balanced, though. By the end, Mark was only in about half of the episodes, and Brendan wasn't on the show at all.

Here's the Warren Littlefield mention at the Mama's Family cast reunion round table. (https://youtu.be/i636OOfa1dY?t=854)

Just be patient as Vicki explains the NBC backstory, lol.

(and the cast didn't emphasize her mention like I thought they did; I guess because I was emphasizing it in my head :lol:)

And no, I'm not Dan Cooper. :lol:

Here's the Warren Littlefield mention at the Mama's Family cast reunion round table. (https://youtu.be/i636OOfa1dY?t=854)

Just be patient as Vicki explains the NBC backstory, lol.

(and the cast didn't emphasize her mention like I thought they did; I guess because I was emphasizing it in my head :lol:)


Thanks! I sure didn't hear anyone disagree with Dorothy Lyman when she called out Warren Littlefield as one of the suits who didn't get it.

It's boggling that those suits "didn't get it".

Didn't they watch The Carol Burnett Show?

Didn't their parents or relatives tell them how wonderful that show and those characters were?


Thanks! I sure didn't hear anyone disagree with Dorothy Lyman when she called out Warren Littlefield as one of the suits who didn't get it.

And were hanging around annoyingly where they shouldn't be, when they didn't get it, and they weren't being fair.

That's extremely telling that his behavior was such that Dorothy Lyman still remembered him out of all the suits specifically 30 years later.

I think he was exaggerating just the number of girls because he specifically said Mrs. Garrett had 10, 12 girls.



I think they must have gotten mixed up with the Pilot 'Girls school': there were almost 20 girls altogether hee hee!

:drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer:

I think they must have gotten mixed up with the Pilot 'Girls school': there were almost 20 girls altogether hee hee!

:drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer:

I think he knew exactly what he was referring to, thinking over that first season.

But there were more than 20 girls in TGS---there were 23! :lol:

I think they must have gotten mixed up with the Pilot 'Girls school': there were almost 20 girls altogether hee hee!

:drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer::drummer:

I think '80sSitcoms actually counted over 20 girls in the backdoor pilot. But they weren't series regulars, just as extras in other episodes would never be counted as part of Mrs. Garrett's "brood".

Yeah, he may have gotten mixed up. Very mixed up.

It's boggling that those suits "didn't get it".

Didn't they watch The Carol Burnett Show?

Didn't their parents or relatives tell them how wonderful that show and those characters were?


The Carol Burnett Show had aired on CBS, and the NBC episodes of MF were still taped at CBS Television City. These young NBC execs didn't understand that anything Carol Burnett endorses turns to gold. There was a reason NBC was in last place in the ratings, and struggled for a half a decade.


That's extremely telling that his behavior was such that Dorothy Lyman still remembered him out of all the suits specifically 30 years later.

Clearly, his interference astonished her beyond the rest of the young NBC execs.

Now to pack away all of the 10/12 decorations so there's room for the Eastland Halloween Party at the dorm!

Now to pack away all of the 10/12 decorations so there's room for the Eastland Halloween Party at the dorm!

Haha! :lol: