I think so. I've been watching the show for the first time since I was a kid and Judy comes off so bad. She never says or does anything nice to anybody. Her character is so one note. Eddie on the other hand while similar, is funny and on occasion has done nice things for Wally and Beaver although usually in private. He also comes off as a sympathetic character in a few instances. Judy never does. She isn't really even that funny. I liked Penny better. There were two episodes I can think of where she was friendly towards Beaver ( giving him the wheels off her baby buggy for his racer and having a crush on him in another). So while she was mean a lot of the time, she at least showed another side to herself unlike Judy.

Judy is totally unlikable. Very early on before they had her character established, she was halfway OK--probably only in one episode.

I wonder if a teacher in the real world would have tried to curtail her behavior as a tattle tale.

Penny was a toned down version of Judy and way more likable. Had they kept her she would have been an ideal girlfriend for an older Beaver.

I can't recall a single sympathetic moment much less likable moment for Judy!

Likeable to who? Classmates no. Viewers strong yes! A wonderful over-the-top character. Her lines made me laugh my ass off. Especially how she was put in the middle of bland characters who writers played it safe with. Sue Randall's reactions to her bragging and backstabbing were priceless. She and Penny together would have been amazing. I dont think there was a single scene she was in she didnt provide a big laugh, and shine. Who cares if her classmates didnt like her.

Good point--the character sure provided great scenes.

Many of us probably knew a similar tattle-tale as kids. "I'm telling!"

I find Fred Rutherford to be the character I would try hardest to avoid. His constant need for nurturing his ego, gets monotonous

I think Judy may have been nice to Beaver once when she thought Beaver was moving. But still, I think the most unlikable character was that big fat girl who kept beating Beaver up. He didn't fight back cause she was the girl. I forget whether at this point Ward stepped in and provided him with a bat or what?:talk:

Fred is an interesting character. Doesn't exhibit many good qualities as a human being. Ward seems to have little respect for him. Treats Lumpy like dirt, though he brags him up. The writers have crafted him to be the anti Ward.

Beaver, Wally, and Ward all have close freinds that treat them poorly. Ward appears to despise Fred's company but persists seeing him socially away from work. Ward mentions Fred's inadequate job performance, but Fred still stays in his position. He has a messed up son. But, seemingly angelic, well adjusted wife and daughter. Is a boob, but very well spoken. Is under Wards pay scale, but travels the world. The Cleavers trips are no further than to the lake.

Richard Deacon totally nails his Fred, and Mel Cooley characters that are both huge favorites of mine.

Even when Judy gave Beaver's 'going away' present, it seemed more like she was only doing so to look like a goody-goody instead of out of any sincere liking for him- much less would have missed him (and, natch, she was the ONE person who openly wanted her present BACK when he fessed that he wasn't moving).

If this was a show about the adults, the writers would probably have tried to bring some logic to Ward and Fred and wives seeing each other socially. Like making June and Gwen lifelong friends.

I agree, Deacon nailed the Fred role. And Mel.

I agree, Deacon nailed the Fred role. And Mel.

Do you perceive substantial difference between Fred and Mel?

Yep. Mel was kind of a neurotic boob who did mange to be good at his producer job (as Rob described, being a nag), and was subjected to constant abuse from Alan and Buddy.

Fred was a blowhard who was probably good at what he and Ward did, whatever that was, marketing analysis, maybe. He was a terrible father who showed in one episode (Beaver's Rat) that he heavily favored Violet, and verbally abused Clarence (the verbal abuse was shown many times). He was a braggart who was always trying to impress his acquaintances. You could almost compare his personality to Alan Brady!

Ward & Fred from "Beaver on TV". Always one of my favorite LITB scenes.

Oh, hello, Fred.

He who watches
television on company time

never wins promotion.

Oh, you're a little off, Fred.

No ball game today.

Oh, watching the
ponies run, huh?

No, as a matter of fact Beaver's going
to be on television in a few minutes.

I was just checking the set
to make sure it was working.

- Beaver, huh?
- Mm-hm.

I know just how you feel, Ward.

My Lumpy... uh, Clarence...

Has been on
television, you know. To

- Oh, is that so?
- Mm-hm.

The year the high-school
bands went up to the university

to play at the half time.

It was a real thrill
for Gwen and me

when that camera zoomed in on
our Clarence playing his clarinet.

Yes, that must've
been a high spot for you.

Yes, yes.

We thought he'd go
on to a musical career,

but then he decided
to leave the band.

Oh? What happened?

Well, the conductor claims

that he made an unfortunate
sound with his clarinet

while the principal was
addressing assembly.

Not a word of truth to it.

Merely testing his reed.

- Shame, Fred.
- Mm.

Oh, uh, what's Beaver
going to do on television?

Is he going to be on
The Mickey Mouse Club?

Oh, no, he's going
to be a panelist

on the Teen Age Forum.

Well, congratulations.

I know how proud
you must be of that boy,

the way he's come along.

I have to agree that Fred was pretty unlikable too. Judy was still a kid and might have grown out of her tattle tale and bad attitude. In fact the episodes with Penny being nice to Beaver would have probably been Judy if she stayed on the show. Getting back to Fred, he was an adult and most likely set in his ways and wasn't going to change.

Yep. Mel was kind of a neurotic boob who did mange to be good at his producer job (as Rob described, being a nag), and was subjected to constant abuse from Alan and Buddy.



I always perceived Mel as rather full of himself, just like Fred. Chief difference being, he always had to defer to Alan, so there was timidity to balance his aloofness.

Both characters seemed to have a "wet blanket" quality, IMO.

Weren't Ward & June shocked Fred wore Bermuda shorts to a gathering he hosted? Then his never ending slide shows from his vacations were cutting edge.

As to Fred Rutherford:

Is a boob, but very well spoken.


Interesting observation, and re-watching some episodes I notice this too. Strange dichotomy.