Watching some of the episodes of unsolved mysteries and they should cases where someone’s death is ruled an suicide but family argue that it was murder


Any of those cases actually turn out to be murder?

The Steve Sandlin case was eventually classified as a homicide.

The Mario Amado case was eventually reclassified a homicide and a police officer was convicted of his murder but the ruling was overturned.

IMO, just because the cause of death was changed to undetermined or murder from suicide, doesn’t mean it’s so. Just means the ME gave in to pressure from the families.

IMO, just because the cause of death was changed to undetermined or murder from suicide, doesn’t mean it’s so. Just means the ME gave in to pressure from the families.

I agree 100%. I feel bad for the families, but most all of them hire some PI and keep spinning some wild theory until they wear everyone down.

Watching some of the episodes of unsolved mysteries and they should cases where someone’s death is ruled an suicide but family argue that it was murder


Any of those cases actually turn out to be murder?

Yes there are multiple. chad maurer and Cindy James were both changed from suicide to undetermined IIRC. I think it is obvious to say that Chad was murdered. Keith Warren is another case that I suspect was murder, but investigators classified him as suicide. Paul Whipkey was an Army Lt. who was classified a deserter, but was later classified as died in the line of duty. those are just a few that I can recall.

How about Doug Johnston from the 'Mistaken Hit,' segment?

The audacity of the investigator to say we can't classify it as a murder or suicide based on the evidence despite no gun being found anywhere in or near the car. Isn't no gun being found at the scene technically evidence?

Do they honestly think he could have shot himself and then the gun just magically floated away?

Do they honestly think he could have shot himself and then the gun just magically floated away?

You've heard of ice bullets for assassins? Clearly there's an ice pistol for suicides!

IMO, just because the cause of death was changed to undetermined or murder from suicide, doesn’t mean it’s so. Just means the ME gave in to pressure from the families.

In every case? That's a broad assessment.

From the cases I've seen on Unsolved Mysteries of declared suicides thought to be murders, most of the families had pretty good arguments. And the authorities' arguments for suicide have ranged from questionable to flat out ridiculous.

There might be more to Kieth Warren’s case, but IMHO, most of these are suicides and the family doesn’t want to accept it.

There might be more to Kieth Warren’s case, but IMHO, most of these are suicides and the family doesn’t want to accept it.

Fundamentally all deaths are to be treated as homicides until proven otherwise. Not the other way around. And in most of these cases suicide was not proven. The evidence ranged from inconclusive to flat out obvious for homicide.

Whatever you choose to believe is fine with me, I will do the same.

There might be more to Kieth Warren’s case, but IMHO, most of these are suicides and the family doesn’t want to accept it.

I agree 1000% with this take. There are a few cases where suicide doesn't seem as cut and dried, but the overwhelming majority of the murder/suicide segments were legitimate suicides that the family could not accept.

The weirdest thing about this forum about Unsolved Mysteries is that - according to a good chunk of members on this site - no one is ever actually murdered. Mysterious deaths have to be all be suicides.

I guess this should be the "unsolved suicides" forum.

I agree 1000% with this take. There are a few cases where suicide doesn't seem as cut and dried, but the overwhelming majority of the murder/suicide segments were legitimate suicides that the family could not accept.

I don't really want to argue this to much as I think this is really a case by case argument rather than a generalization. But I will only make the general comment that in no way were the overwhelming majority of these cases clear cut suicides, or they wouldn't have been on Unsolved Mysteries. Yes Unsolved Mysteries had a tendency to overdramatize some cases by withholding facts or stretching the truth a little. But they would not have wasted their time on cases that were that obvious.

Most of them actually ranged from inconclusive to borderline ridiculous to be called suicides. Its just that for whatever reason its become the cool thing on this board to dismiss everything as a suicide because people think it makes them sound like the voice of reason or smarter than everyone else. But often they try so hard to sound that way they come off as ridiculous.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact is none of us were there for any of these, and none of us really know.

The weirdest thing about this forum about Unsolved Mysteries is that - according to a good chunk of members on this site - no one is ever actually murdered. Mysterious deaths have to be all be suicides.

I guess this should be the "unsolved suicides" forum.

Pretty much what I addressed above.

I put it down to insecurity. Its almost like people are afraid to believe the more sinister or sexy resolution to a case because they are afraid of looking ridiculous.

I just think people need to get over themselves. Fact is, a lot of the facts in many of these cases are based largely on hearsay on what was found, and we just assume people are telling the truth. But we don't know. Anyone who thinks there isn't corrupt law enforcement who covers up a lot of stuff in many of these cases is naive as all get out.

Just one example, if you believe Tommy Burkett's parents, there is no way he committed suicide if the cylinder of his gun was unlatched when they found him. Case closed, he couldn't have done it.

But we don't know that his parents are telling the truth, cause none of us were there.

All you can do is take the facts given and formulate your own opinion. Nobody knows for sure.

But I will only make the general comment that in no way were the overwhelming majority of these cases clear cut suicides, or they wouldn't have been on Unsolved Mysteries. Yes Unsolved Mysteries had a tendency to overdramatize some cases by withholding facts or stretching the truth a little. But they would not have wasted their time on cases that were that obvious.

If these cases were very murky in terms of suicide or murder, why would UM feel the need to withhold facts or overdramatize them?

Most of them actually ranged from inconclusive to borderline ridiculous to be called suicides. Its just that for whatever reason its become the cool thing on this board to dismiss everything as a suicide because people think it makes them sound like the voice of reason or smarter than everyone else. But often they try so hard to sound that way they come off as ridiculous.

It's a discussion board about Unsolved Mysteries, the television show. I think a lot of people feel burned after the internet opened the window to many of the things that UM downplayed or ignored in almost all of their segments. I also don't understand why people seem to take it personally because you don't believe that there are shadowy murderers still roaming around freely. And I think you are discounting that some of the cases featured (Norman Ladner, Rae Ann Mossor) could also be accidents or some cases like Crystal Spencer or Natasha Jennings could have been medical incidents.

I just think people need to get over themselves. Fact is, a lot of the facts in many of these cases are based largely on hearsay on what was found, and we just assume people are telling the truth. But we don't know. Anyone who thinks there isn't corrupt law enforcement who covers up a lot of stuff in many of these cases is naive as all get out.

Just one example, if you believe Tommy Burkett's parents, there is no way he committed suicide if the cylinder of his gun was unlatched when they found him. Case closed, he couldn't have done it.

Using your Tommy Burkett example, UM never mentions whose gun it was nor do they mention any crime scene photographs showing the cylinder being unlatched on the gun. These seem like pretty key details that would back up the parents version of events, and obviously mean that he was murdered. But none of that is mentioned or brought up. That's the point I am trying to make. In almost all of the exclusive was it murder or suicide segments, to believe the murder you have to believe, many times without any concrete evidence, the family members version of events.

The weirdest thing about this forum about Unsolved Mysteries is that - according to a good chunk of members on this site - no one is ever actually murdered. Mysterious deaths have to be all be suicides.

I guess this should be the "unsolved suicides" forum.

I don't understand why this is "weird" at all. What's weird to me is how much weight is given in the family members who appeared on the segment opposed to law enforcement or pathologists, who (with the exception of a few cases) have no skin in the game one way or the other.

To answer OP's original question, going off of this list from the UM wiki of suspicious deaths:

https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Suspicious_Deaths

Outside of the obvious cases of murder (Lynda Sherman, Carson Prince, Steve Sandlin, Doug Johnston, etc.), the cases that I believe to either be inconclusive or murder are:

-Aileen Conway
-Alonzo Brooks
-Blair Adams
-Chad Maurer
-Henry & Ives
-Leroy Dreith
-Robert Dirscherl
-Michelle Witherell
-Sandra Orellana

It's a discussion board about Unsolved Mysteries, the television show. I think a lot of people feel burned after the internet opened the window to many of the things that UM downplayed or ignored in almost all of their segments. I also don't understand why people seem to take it personally because you don't believe that there are shadowy murderers still roaming around freely. And I think you are discounting that some of the cases featured (Norman Ladner, Rae Ann Mossor) could also be accidents or some cases like Crystal Spencer or Natasha Jennings could have been medical incidents.


Crystal Spencer's death was never believed to be suicide, so not sure why you'd throw that one in since this thread is about deaths ruled suicides by law enforcement and the family believed they were murders. I honestly can't recall Natasha Jennings.

Regarding Rae Ann Mosser, I think it was most likely an accident. She was fighting with someone over the shotgun, probably her boyfriend and the gun went off. I doubt it was first degree murder. Avoiding 4-5 years in prison for manslaughter would have been perfect motivation for his family and friends to lie for him and say she offed herself. Cold blooded murder I doubt they would have been nearly as willing to unless they were utter scumbags. An accident is a totally different story.

As for Norman Ladner, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I simply felt Sheriff Lumpkin's case for suicide was weak at best. At least Rae Ann Mosser had a clear cut motive for suicide even though I think it was an accident. Norman Ladner didn't, and the physical evidence for suicide was weak as well. As far as I can tell Lumpkin based his whole suicide argument Norman was standing when shot, something that would not have proven suicide even if it was true. He was not even able to find the bullet or prove Norman's own gun killed him, which is critical to proving suicide. And with his parents, you basically have to believe they fabricated evidence to not think the bullet in the ground was the one that killed him. No good explanation for the broken gun was provided either. The only way it could have if Norman was the only one there was if he fell out of the tree, unlikely falling on soft ground. And then you'd have to come up with a reasonable explanation for him climbing in the tree to commit suicide anyway. In my view suicide has way to many holes in his case. Almost to the point where I have a difficult time believing it was even possible, much less a certainty. Ask anyone who comes on the forbidden site from Norman's home town, they will tell you Lumpkin was crooked as a 37$ bill.

As for Norman Ladner, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think Norman Ladner's death was most likely an accident. Same with Rae Ann Mossor.

As for Norman Ladner, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I simply felt Sheriff Lumpkin's case for suicide was weak at best. At least Rae Ann Mosser had a clear cut motive for suicide even though I think it was an accident. Norman Ladner didn't, and the physical evidence for suicide was weak as well. As far as I can tell Lumpkin based his whole suicide argument Norman was standing when shot, something that would not have proven suicide even if it was true. He was not even able to find the bullet or prove Norman's own gun killed him, which is critical to proving suicide. And with his parents, you basically have to believe they fabricated evidence to not think the bullet in the ground was the one that killed him. No good explanation for the broken gun was provided either. The only way it could have if Norman was the only one there was if he fell out of the tree, unlikely falling on soft ground. And then you'd have to come up with a reasonable explanation for him climbing in the tree to commit suicide anyway. In my view suicide has way to many holes in his case. Almost to the point where I have a difficult time believing it was even possible, much less a certainty. Ask anyone who comes on the forbidden site from Norman's home town, they will tell you Lumpkin was crooked as a 37$ bill.

Lumpkin already came across as unlikable in the segment, long before the residents came forward with the stories of what a toolbag he really is. It doesn't matter how much evidence you could show him (other than a video recording of the death) for him to accept anything other than suicide.

What's interesting is that while parents often get accused of being in denial here, the Ladners originally accepted that the death must have been an accident. It wasn't until the mountain of issues you just mentioned built up that they started to feel differently.

Similarly, Keith Warren's mother originally accepted his death as suicide despite there being no logical reason for him to kill himself. But eventually being confronted with dozens and dozens of red flags, her feelings obviously changed about that and I can't blame her.

There might be more to Kieth Warren’s case, but IMHO, most of these are suicides and the family doesn’t want to accept it.

I will be making an announcement in the very near future that will shine new light on the investigation and the cover up......