I purchased a great book called "The Sitcoms on Norman Lear" and now in the Good Times Chapter and on page 99 it was stated that Lear did not believe Good Times was a true spinoff. His statement was....."I got the idea for this show two and a half years ago before there was a Maude from Mike Evans" Lear Told reporters in 1974. Lear also stated that "we never seen a black family on TV before and it sounded like a good idea. Its taken two years to develop it and went through 30 drafts of the story for the first episode. The idea for Good Times undergone many script changes before Florida ever arrived in Tuckahoe. As the show evolved and continued season after season, Lear was appalled by anyone who called Good Times a spinoff. By the third season he went around Hollywood telling people that he would throw up if he heard it called that one more time.

Well that ends the Debate


The Sitcoms of Norman Lear, Sean Campbell, 2014

I purchased a great book called "The Sitcoms on Norman Lear" and now in the Good Times Chapter and on page 99 it was stated that Lear did not believe Good Times was a true spinoff. His statement was....."I got the idea for this show two and a half years ago before there was a Maude from Mike Evans" Lear Told reporters in 1974. Lear also stated that "we never seen a black family on TV before and it sounded like a good idea. Its taken two years to develop it and went through 30 drafts of the story for the first episode. The idea for Good Times undergone many script changes before Florida ever arrived in Tuckahoe. As the show evolved and continued season after season, Lear was appalled by anyone who called Good Times a spinoff. By the third season he went around Hollywood telling people that he would throw up if he heard it called that one more time.

Well that ends the Debate


The Sitcoms of Norman Lear, Sean Campbell, 2014
It’s a spinoff.

The end.

If it wasn’t at least an inconsistent spinoff, then explain Florida and Henry, played by Esther Rolle and John Amos.

And also, if he said that, then why did he say otherwise in the interview?

It’s a spinoff.

The end.

If it wasn’t at least an inconsistent spinoff, then explain Florida and Henry, played by Esther Rolle and John Amos.

And also, if he said that, then why did he say otherwise in the interview?

What Interview

What Interview
I thought there was an interview Norman Lear did where he speaks on Good Times.

I thought there was an interview Norman Lear did where he speaks on Good Times.

I heard of no such interview:lol:

Norman Lear must’ve been drunk while writing that book because he specifically said he originated the Florida Evans character from Eric Monte’s original The Black Family scripts, put her on Maude, then after a year or two SPUN her off to her own show, Good Times. Nothing that ANYONE provides can ever change Maude’s Florida Evans and Henry Evans, once again, played by both Esther Rolle and John Amos.

Norman Lear must’ve been drunk while writing that book because he specifically said he originated the Florida Evans character from Eric Monte’s original The Black Family scripts, put her on Maude, then after a year or two SPUN her off to her own show, Good Times. Nothing that ANYONE provides can ever change Maude’s Florida Evans and Henry Evans, once again, played by both Esther Rolle and John Amos.

He didnt write it, the author is Sean Campbell and included an interview with Lear inside the book

He didnt write it, the author is Sean Campbell and included an interview with Lear inside the book
Oh, okay.

Oh, okay.

Fun Fact

The Author of the Book was a member of this site in 2006


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009TB1AUA/ref=docs-os-doi_0

Fun Fact

The Author of the Book was a member of this site in 2006


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009TB1AUA/ref=docs-os-doi_0
What was his username?

What was his username?

nlearfan


https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=163223&highlight=Sean+Campbell

I purchased a great book called "The Sitcoms on Norman Lear" and now in the Good Times Chapter and on page 99 it was stated that Lear did not believe Good Times was a true spinoff. His statement was....."I got the idea for this show two and a half years ago before there was a Maude from Mike Evans" Lear Told reporters in 1974. Lear also stated that "we never seen a black family on TV before and it sounded like a good idea. Its taken two years to develop it and went through 30 drafts of the story for the first episode. The idea for Good Times undergone many script changes before Florida ever arrived in Tuckahoe. As the show evolved and continued season after season, Lear was appalled by anyone who called Good Times a spinoff. By the third season he went around Hollywood telling people that he would throw up if he heard it called that one more time.

Well that ends the Debate


The Sitcoms of Norman Lear, Sean Campbell, 2014

That pretty much sums it up. Lear was working on Goodtimes probably even before Maude hit the airwaves.

One thing does bothers me though. Why would the book author (Sean Campbell) in post #3 still believe Goodtimes is spin off Maude if in his book Lear say other wise?

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=163223&highlight=Sean+Campbell

I’m getting sick of this.

We will NEVER hear the end of this, because there’s one side that keeps on bringing up this evidence that has been TRIED and TRIED over and over again, not willing to except history or the other side’s evidence. How many times are we gonna go through this?

If you wanna believe Good Times and Maude are not in the same universe, then fine, believe it, but I believe that Good Times and Maude are indeed connected, and I’ll stand by my opinion, but I’m not gonna do this back and forth. It wasn’t Norman Lear who was working on Good Times, it was Eric Monte. Eric Monte had wrote scripts entitled “The Black Family”, based off of his childhood living in a Chicago housing project located in a high crime area, dating way back to 1971. In 1972, the TV show Maude was created. Coincidentally, soon after it’s premiere, Eric Monte went out to sell his scripts to Hollywood and he ran into one guy and had him read his scripts, long story short, the man suggested that he bring it to Norman Lear. So Eric did just that, but Lear said the scripts called for more work, so after some improvising and compromising, they eventually, in the end came out with Good Times. But right off the bat, Lear noticed character Mattie Black from Monte’s original Black Family scripts and turned her into Florida Evans, and decided it would be a better idea to bring her onto his brand new show called Maude, as mentioned earlier, before giving her her own show. And in the blink of an eye, a new character named Florida Evans debuted on Maude as Maude’s housekeeper, and immediately became a household name. Nearly two years later, Lear felt it was time for Florida Evans to be spun off to her own show, Good Times after seeing the popularity of her character. So instead of being consistent about it, he took Eric Monte’s Black Family premise and made it the overall premise of Good Times, wanting a different background. Even Monte himself stated that Lear took his Black Family premise, took Mattie Black and turned her into Florida Evans, introduced her on Maude, and later spun her off onto her own show, pretty much taking his idea, but somehow keeping it within the Maude universe to an extent.

I’m sorry, but to be blunt, I’m sick of this sh*t topic.

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.

Im on the Good Times Chapter working my way to the Jeffersons. I see that ODAAT is the last chapter

I’m getting sick of this.

We will NEVER hear the end of this, because there’s one side that keeps on bringing up this evidence that has been TRIED and TRIED over and over again, not willing to except history or the other side’s evidence. How many times are we gonna go through this?

If you wanna believe Good Times and Maude are not in the same universe, then fine, believe it, but I believe that Good Times and Maude are indeed connected, and I’ll stand by my opinion, but I’m not gonna do this back and forth. It wasn’t Norman Lear who was working on Good Times, it was Eric Monte. Eric Monte had wrote scripts entitled “The Black Family”, based off of his childhood living in a Chicago housing project located in a high crime area, dating way back to 1971. In 1972, the TV show Maude was created. Coincidentally, soon after it’s premiere, Eric Monte went out to sell his scripts to Hollywood and he ran into one guy and had him read his scripts, long story short, the man suggested that he bring it to Norman Lear. So Eric did just that, but Lear said the scripts called for more work, so after some improvising and compromising, they eventually, in the end came out with Good Times. But right off the bat, Lear noticed character Mattie Black from Monte’s original Black Family scripts and turned her into Florida Evans, and decided it would be a better idea to bring her onto his brand new show called Maude, as mentioned earlier, before giving her her own show. And in the blink of an eye, a new character named Florida Evans debuted on Maude as Maude’s housekeeper, and immediately became a household name. Nearly two years later, Lear felt it was time for Florida Evans to be spun off to her own show, Good Times after seeing the popularity of her character. So instead of being consistent about it, he took Eric Monte’s Black Family premise and made it the overall premise of Good Times, wanting a different background. Even Monte himself stated that Lear took his Black Family premise, took Mattie Black and turned her into Florida Evans, introduced her on Maude, and later spun her off onto her own show, pretty much taking his idea, but somehow keeping it within the Maude universe to an extent.

I’m sorry, but to be blunt, I’m sick of this sh*t topic.


Its over, nothing else to talk about it:lol:

Its over, nothing else to talk about it:lol:
Yeah, cause’ it’s been established that Good Times IS a spinoff.

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.
My sentiments exactly.

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.

I think this is the one and only time that I disagree with opus. Regarding this topic, I totally agree with TVFactFan.

I think this is the one and only time that I disagree with opus. Regarding this topic, I totally agree with TVFactFan.

I just called it what it was.......Norman Lear Comedy like One Day at a Time

I just called it what it was.......Norman Lear Comedy like One Day at a Time

Yep, and you and me both never believed that Good Times was any spin off of Maude. Henry who changed his name to James, quit his well paying fireman job in New York City, decided to become a part time dishwasher and car wash attendant, packed up the family to move to a ghetto in Chicago. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense.

Yep, and you and me both never believed that Good Times was any spin off of Maude. Henry who changed his name to James, quit his well paying fireman job in New York City, decided to become a part time dishwasher and car wash attendant, packed up the family to move to a ghetto in Chicago. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense.


Bet tons of GT fans dont even know who Maude is and was shocked when florida said.........."when I was a maid?:lol:

Bet tons of GT fans dont even know who Maude is and was shocked when florida said.........."when I was a maid?:lol:

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Yeah, and that's because if it was truly a spin off, Florida would have said "when I was a maid working for Maude Findlay..." :lol:

Not a spin off!

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Yeah, and that's because if it was truly a spin off, Florida would have said "when I was a maid working for Maude Findlay..." :lol:

Not a spin off!


Exactly

AasBUq-ijQ4


Here, Monte talks about What’s Happening!!, The Jeffersons, Sanford and Son, and most importantly, Good Times. He specifically states how Lear to his “Back Family” idea and plagiarized it to promote the Florida Evans character, who was introduced on Maude, being spun off to her own show, known as Good Times, without his name being in the credits whatsoever. Find it hard to believe that Lear would deny this.

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows :lol: Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances :lol:

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows :lol: Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances :lol:
The difference is that the pilot for the Jeffersons aired on an episode of AITF. Archie was mentioned on the Jeffersons at least once that I do remember and George even guest starred on AITF after his show was already on the air. No mention of Maude in GT at all.

Finally coming around to Solomon's way of thinking. lol

The difference is that the pilot for the Jeffersons aired on an episode of AITF. Archie was mentioned on the Jeffersons at least once that I do remember and George even guest starred on AITF after his show was already on the air. No mention of Maude in GT at all.

Finally coming around to Solomon's way of thinking. lol
Well, I’m still sticking to my side. You can’t erase what when on on Maude and the events that led to Good Times: to my understanding, it’s Florida Evans on both Maude AND Good Times, played by the same actress. James’s name might’ve changed from Henry to James when he and Florida went on to Good Times, but he was still played by the same actor, John Amos. Also, I think Florida mentions three kids on Maude. Look at The Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction. You still do consider Petticoat Junction a spinoff, don’t you?

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows :lol: Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances :lol:

All bad examples, Jeffersons had a pilot ep for AITF and Jackee was a 227 episode that was a pilot and featured Pearl as a guest. No where near the GT situation

All bad examples, Jeffersons had a pilot ep for AITF and Jackee was a 227 episode that was a pilot and featured Pearl as a guest. No where near the GT situation
You tend to focus on tiny details that are not relevant to what a spin off is. Its the "what aboutism" that is sweeping the country. When people refuse to accept facts, its always........what about ___________

The bottom line is NO ONE can deny Florida left Maude to be cast in anther show where she was the head of the house. The inspiration from Good Times came from Maude's housekeeper who made Maude a hit.
You think Jimmy is lying when he said he was given the script of Good Times and told it was a spin off of Maude? But what about The Jeffersons pilot appearing in the All in the Family show? You see. You keep playing the What about stuff without acknowledging what happened to Florida on the hit show Maude? She got her own show.
Maude and Good Times are different shows and not very much alike. Point taken but Florida got her own show and was sprung there by Maude.

Yeah, it was definitely a spin-off. They changed some things to make it work better, but that's just how producers did things during that era.

All bad examples, Jeffersons had a pilot ep for AITF and Jackee was a 227 episode that was a pilot and featured Pearl as a guest. No where near the GT situation
TVFactFan, my man, I thought you said the debate was “over”. :lol:

Yeah, it was definitely a spin-off. They changed some things to make it work better, but that's just how producers did things during that era.
It was so it could fit with Eric Monte’s original “Black Family” premise.

By the way, the book came out in 2006. If it ended the debate, why, 15 years later, do most people still call it a spin-off?

Im on the Good Times Chapter working my way to the Jeffersons. I see that ODAAT is the last chapter

You finish yet? ODAAT is the last big name show covered, but the final chapter deals briefly with some of his other stuff, like Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and some of his lesser known shows.

You tend to focus on tiny details that are not relevant to what a spin off is. Its the "what aboutism" that is sweeping the country. When people refuse to accept facts, its always........what about ___________

The bottom line is NO ONE can deny Florida left Maude to be cast in anther show where she was the head of the house. The inspiration from Good Times came from Maude's housekeeper who made Maude a hit.
You think Jimmy is lying when he said he was given the script of Good Times and told it was a spin off of Maude? But what about The Jeffersons pilot appearing in the All in the Family show? You see. You keep playing the What about stuff without acknowledging what happened to Florida on the hit show Maude? She got her own show.
Maude and Good Times are different shows and not very much alike. Point taken but Florida got her own show and was sprung there by Maude.

wrong again, she was WRITTEN off the show not transitioned onto another series through a pilot situation

You finish yet? ODAAT is the last big name show covered, but the final chapter deals briefly with some of his other stuff, like Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and some of his lesser known shows.

Not yet working my way toward the end as it analyzes the 1st season

For those of you that dont accept facts about Good Times, please answer this one question. Why did the writers keep the name Florida Evans for Good Times from Maude? Dont reflect or say....what about _________?
Why did the writers keep the name? You deny its the same character? She has the same name. They could have given her any name yet the name and character came from Maude. That fact alone proves it was a spin off and is the definition of a spin off. She was hysterical on Maude and that is why Lear gave her a show. Not sure why this is endlessly debated.

Good Times was not transitioned from Maude the way many spin offs are. But having the most popular character "written off", "transitioned", "transferred", or what ever term you want to use cant take away Florida Evans left Maude and got her own show. She kept her name for a reason yet that seems to always be forgotten.

Some of the Good Times DVD covers even stated it was a spin off of Maude.

Some of the Good Times DVD covers even stated it was a spin off of Maude.

Good point. Here's the back of the DVD cover for the complete series (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0233/6235/products/10163178-0-good_times__the_complete_series_seasons_1__6_boxset-dvd_b_0733fc80-d7f9-4faa-bf75-543423a784c5.jpg?v=1571709579). "A spin-off of MAUDE, which was itself a spin-off of ALL IN THE FAMILY, GOOD TIMES first aired in February 1974..."

Ironically, this is just another what-about example, and doesn't prove anything. One has to START with the definition of a spinoff, then compare the generation of the show to that definition.
No. Not at all. You just made the point though. The definition of a spinoff is not how it was transitioned from another show. You could have a spin off on another network. A character, characters or theme that transitions to another show is what a spin off is.

Again, you prove my point exactly. You chose NOT to answer the question yet deflect again. If you dont believe it was a spin off, please explain why the writers and creators of the show not only kept the same actress but same name Florida Evans. You refusing to answer the question by reflection says it all.

Check out the Jimmy Walker interview on youtube where he talks about being cast for the show. He had no idea what it was and when he asked he was handed a script and read it and told it was a spin off of Maude. So these people were lying about their own show?.......yeah ok :lol:

No more questions your honor :) Case closed. But its a free country, you are free to believe what you want. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own set of facts.

Again, the people associated with the show may be authorities with respect to what happened on the show. They are not necessarily authorities as to what the word the "spinoff" means. They're not, the original poster isn't, and you're not. In order to make your case, you have to establish what a spinoff is. THEN you can show that Good Times complies with that definition.
I mean no disrespect to you. Every opinion matters but good grief did you read what you wrote. You say the creators of Good Times cant be trusted to call it a spin off of Maude because they cant be trusted to know what a spin off really is.

You do realize there are shows that end and years later a character from the show that ended gets their own show. They keep their own name and job and its a spin off the original show. You still refuse to answer the question I posed earlier. Not every spin off has its premier in the time slot of the original show in the same season. I have defined what a spin off is yet you attack the premise yet you refuse to define it yourself.

Again, the people associated with the show may be authorities with respect to what happened on the show. They are not necessarily authorities as to what the word the "spinoff" means. They're not, the original poster isn't, and you're not. In order to make your case, you have to establish what a spinoff is. THEN you can show that Good Times complies with that definition.
I mean no disrespect to you. Every opinion matters but good grief did you read what you wrote. You say the creators of Good Times cant be trusted to call it a spin off of Maude because they cant be trusted to know what a spin off really is.

You do realize there are shows that end and years later a character from the show that ended gets their own show. They keep their own name and job and its a spin off the original show. You still refuse to answer the question I posed earlier. Not every spin off has its premier in the time slot of the original show in the same season. I have defined what a spin off is yet you attack the premise yet you refuse to define it yourself.

Bottom line: With all the proof given, it is a spinoff, damnit! Even the DVDs covers stated it. That should say something.

It could be an INDIRECT spin-off.

Kinda how Mama's Family is an indirect spin-off from the Family Sketches of the Carol Burnett Show... It was inspired, but there are SO MANY differences, it's hardly recognizable as the same family at times