Yesterday I was watching the Missy Munday segment, one of the earliest segments in UM's run (with the infamous "circlestantive evidence" quote by Jerry Strickland).

When watching this segment I couldn't help but observe how naive Missy's mother was, and how this is often a staple of family interviews on true crime shows (UM, Forensic Files, Dateline-type shows, etc.) She said her daughter was a shy girl and therefore she couldn't imagine her daughter running away with an older man.

Of course, this was in the late 1980s and people had different...levels of knowledge about human psychology back then. Now, we know that a shy, sheltered girl around the age of 15 would probably be exactly the type of girl a creepy older man would target, because this type of person (who likely wasn't receiving much attention from boys at school) would potentially be yearning for affection or even a desire for adventure.

The mother's interview was an interesting contrast to an interview with one of Missy's friends, who claimed that Missy was experiencing trouble at home and basically that Missy had "nothing at home" and only cared about her sibling (not her parents?). Interesting insight from the friend...perhaps her home life was not as rosy as her mother painted it out to be?

In a much, much more recent UM offering, the UM podcast, the episode titled "Wanted for Murder," the deceased victim's mother also seems a bit naive, saying her daughter "was really careful about dating" but also went on a trip with a guy three weeks after knowing him. (Please note I am not victim-blaming; this young lady's murder is 100% the fault of the bastard who killed her; I hope he gets caught and, frankly, fried.)

Any other interviews where family members seem particularly naive?

Good question.

What immediately comes to mind is Doreen Marfeo’s sister on her belief that Stephen Marfeo had nothing to do with the disappearance of her sister.

Something to the effect “I don’t think he did it and his friends that I talked to don’t think he did it either”.

Some stellar logical reasoning there sis. Stellar.

Good question.

What immediately comes to mind is Doreen Marfeo’s sister on her belief that Stephen Marfeo had nothing to do with the disappearance of her sister.

Something to the effect “I don’t think he did it and his friends that I talked to don’t think he did it either”.

Some stellar logical reasoning there sis. Stellar.

I felt the same way about Bonnie Haim's father. I think both interviewees were just in a ton of denial and wanted to believe their loved ones walked off and their husbands didn't do them in...

I felt the same way about Bonnie Haim's father. I think both interviewees were just in a ton of denial and wanted to believe their loved ones walked off and their husbands didn't do them in...

The interview with Bonnie Haim’s father is one of the weirdest I can remember. It seems even more so now that Michael is convicted.

Larry Race’s in-laws’ logic seemed naive to say the least. (“If you only knew Larry...”)

That relative that made the argument against Eddie Whooten’s guilt (“in the first place Eddie ain’t got that much education.” stands out as well

Good responses!

I also think Cynthia Anderson's unusual father deserves a mention. While he did say Cynthia was more concerned with being a "debutante" (lol...I don't think we're in the 1800s anymore dude), I think he was naive in that he seemed to be skeptical of her having any sort of life outside of her sheltered home existence.

Given Cynthia's clearly strict parents, I don't think it's out of the question that she may have run off. Whether or not she actually did is very much up for debate, but given her family I could see her potentially pulling a Missy Munday :lol:

Good responses!

I also think Cynthia Anderson's unusual father deserves a mention. While he did say Cynthia was more concerned with being a "debutante" (lol...I don't think we're in the 1800s anymore dude), I think he was naive in that he seemed to be skeptical of her having any sort of life outside of her sheltered home existence.

Given Cynthia's clearly strict parents, I don't think it's out of the question that she may have run off. Whether or not she actually did is very much up for debate, but given her family I could see her potentially pulling a Missy Munday :lol:

The YouTube channel, 'BuzzFeed Unsolved Network' had kind of funny take on this observation of the very strict upbringing she had. They post a quote from Cynthia's sister that said...

"My parents wanted us involved with church, and we were."

Then they theorize that Cynthia, staring down the barrel of attending bible college with her boyfriend, who was also a part of the church, wanted to see the world apart from her very sheltered vantage point, and walking away was the easiest way to do so.

----------------------

Lotta church. A lot of church.

Church, church, church. What are you doing Sunday? Church. Tuesday? Church. Wednesday? Church. How about some church? Wanna do more church? What's your boyfriend like? Well, he likes church. What do you guys do for fun? Church. What are you going to study in college? More church...and the bible. I'm out of there. I'm bleaching my hair, plucking all my eyelashes out and I'm out of there. :crazy:

----------------------

All jokes aside, the dad's comments were definitely cringeworthy. I don't doubt he loved his daughter but sheesh...a little makeup doesn't make you a street walker.

The interview with Bonnie Haim’s father is one of the weirdest I can remember. It seems even more so now that Michael is convicted.

Larry Race’s in-laws’ logic seemed naive to say the least. (“If you only knew Larry...”)

That relative that made the argument against Eddie Whooten’s guilt (“in the first place Eddie ain’t got that much education.” stands out as well

I think it was Cheryl Holland's family that was naive. I could be wrong, but I always thought Eddie Wooten's family member was making that point as to say that Eddie wasn't the lone mastermind and that Cheryl was indeed behind the murders with Eddie being an accompolice. It was sort of to counter Cheryl's family member who was implicating that Cheryl was not involved or that Eddie forced her to become involved.

Definitely Bonnie Haim's father.

I felt the same way about Bonnie Haim's father. I think both interviewees were just in a ton of denial and wanted to believe their loved ones walked off and their husbands didn't do them in...

With no body, a worried parent can probably convince themself of anything. (Even though it never made sense that Bonnie would secretly enroll her son in a new pre-school and THEN choose to abandon him.) The trouble is, after her remains were found buried IN MICHAEL'S OWN BACKYARD, I read that Bonnie's mother still believed he was innocent and did not celebrate with the rest of the family when the guilty verdict came in. That is denial to the extreme. I don't believe we ever got an updated quote from Bonnie's father.

I think it was Cheryl Holland's family that was naive. I could be wrong, but I always thought Eddie Wooten's family member was making that point as to say that Eddie wasn't the lone mastermind and that Cheryl was indeed behind the murders with Eddie being an accompolice. It was sort of to counter Cheryl's family member who was implicating that Cheryl was not involved or that Eddie forced her to become involved.

I thought that the "Eddie ain't got that much education" relative was Cheryl's family because he made that plea to her ("we're still your family...my number's the same")

Yes, if he just was saying that Eddie was not the one who masterminded the plot, then yes I agree he was correct...

I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it was a married woman who runs off with a murderer from prison she had been visiting. Her mother and sister are interviewed and seem completely oblivious to the fact she could be involved in a prison escape.

I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it was a married woman who runs off with a murderer from prison she had been visiting. Her mother and sister are interviewed and seem completely oblivious to the fact she could be involved in a prison escape.

There were about 3-4 cases like this profiled and I only remember one of the ladies having to do time. The others were all considered victims. There was one where the lady met the escapee and his friend out on a back road and then RS says she thought they were on furlough LOL.

There was also the case where the man was caught and made it a point to say he held the woman hostage. I think he really cared for her.

I remember one case where the lady kept calling home every few years. Once she called wanting to know if she was a grandmother.

Some of these women were very lonely.

Randy Parker is another one, IMO.

I thought that the "Eddie ain't got that much education" relative was Cheryl's family because he made that plea to her ("we're still your family...my number's the same")

Yes, if he just was saying that Eddie was not the one who masterminded the plot, then yes I agree he was correct...

Indeed. There was no relative of Eddie interviewed. I think DALLASTEXAN was referring more towards Cheryl's sister. Nothing she theorized was true. Her quotes...

"I think Eddie went berserk and Cheryl just happened to be there." (Wrong)

"She didn't know what to do." (Wrong)

"If she did burn the house, it was the only way she figured she could get away from Eddie until she could see it was safe for her and her babies, she was going to have to help him." (Wrong)

"I think Eddie or someone he knows has done something to her. Has killed her." (Wrong)

Those theories by Cheryl's sister may sound nauseating but I have a hard time piling on the sister. We've discussed before how this case was not only brutal but completely unnecessary. Joe and Mattie loved Cheryl as if she were their actual daughter. From the sound of things, if Cheryl had just asked, they would have given her the money in a heartbeat. Nobody ever had to die. If this was completely out of character to the sister she knew, it's only natural she would be in denial. Once Cheryl was captured, the sister had to find out the truth and the betrayal she felt must have been more devastating than the scenarios she had already played out in her head.

There were about 3-4 cases like this profiled and I only remember one of the ladies having to do time. The others were all considered victims. There was one where the lady met the escapee and his friend out on a back road and then RS says she thought they were on furlough LOL.

There was also the case where the man was caught and made it a point to say he held the woman hostage. I think he really cared for her.

I remember one case where the lady kept calling home every few years. Once she called wanting to know if she was a grandmother.

Some of these women were very lonely.

Finally figured it out: Jon Yount and Diane Brodbeck. At least her husband believed she left him for a murderer. :lol:

Randy Parker is another one, IMO.

I thought about posting that too. I think there is a new documentary out now. have you heard of that? I haven't watched it yet.

I thought about posting that too. I think there is a new documentary out now. have you heard of that? I haven't watched it yet.

I haven't heard anything about a documentary. What's it called?

I haven't heard anything about a documentary. What's it called?

ok I looked it up, it is not new, it is from 2012. a Dateline NBC episode called the Devil and Bobbi Parker. I had only recently seen it on tv, but was not able to watch it at the time.

Curt Borton's family. I felt very bad for them, but it was really right out of a movie with how far-fetched their theories were.

Maybe Ruth Morgan, i still can't figure that all out, her husband comes home with a strange chemical in his throat after going missing and she doesn't ask him basic questions of where he was all that time? she just seemed so passive, so blase about the whole thing

How bout Debbie Race's parents? They had to be absolute lightweights to still support Larry Race after all he pulled on her. Even if they think he didn't murder her, he screwed around on her for years and was at least partially at fault for her death. It was mortifying. Debbie Race's whole family might as well have pissed on her grave. I felt terrible for her. If Debbie was my daughter I would have killed that piece of **** whether he murdered her or not just for all he put her through, and he was at least partially at fault for her death.

Randy Parker is another one, IMO.

I was thinking the same thing, he was the first to come to my mind besides Debbie Race's parents. He believed his wife could do no wrong.

Although I'm still not 100% convinced Bobbi Parker did all they said she did, though I lean towards it. I don't think they presented sufficient evidence she aided Dial's escape. Dial sounded to me like someone who would brag to high heaven if Bobbi fell in love with him and helped him escape, the fact he vouched for her gives me pause. I don't think he had anything to gain by helping her, unless in his own perverse way he really cared about her. I don't think that was in him. Could be wrong though.

Curt Borton's family. I felt very bad for them, but it was really right out of a movie with how far-fetched their theories were.

similar to Mark Dennis' brother. Some people it seems just refuse to accept a loved on is gone no matter what is put in front of them.

Its hard to trash them to much, because you sympathize with them. But I do think there comes a point when you got to let go for your own sake. That's what your loved ones would want you to do in that case. Destroying yourself on wild goose chases won't bring deceased people back.

I was thinking the same thing, he was the first to come to my mind besides Debbie Race's parents. He believed his wife could do no wrong.

Although I'm still not 100% convinced Bobbi Parker did all they said she did, though I lean towards it. I don't think they presented sufficient evidence she aided Dial's escape. Dial sounded to me like someone who would brag to high heaven if Bobbi fell in love with him and helped him escape, the fact he vouched for her gives me pause. I don't think he had anything to gain by helping her, unless in his own perverse way he really cared about her. I don't think that was in him. Could be wrong though.
Well I do absolutely agree with TheCars on this one. I do think that Parker was naive, especially as to completely dismiss the idea that Bobbi either left on her own accord, or was taken and later opted to remain with Dial for many years in a husband and wife relationship. She never called Parker or wrote him once when it appears that she had that opportunity if she was willing to risk her life for it. that could be a sign of guilt or maybe an unwillingness to even speak to him if she were indeed in love with Dial. that really makes me wonder. the evidence found in their mobile home does point to a physical sexual relationship with love letters and cards that were written by Bobbi. the evidence contradicts her own words. All we have to go by is her story. I do think it is very possible that she was manipulated by Dial and she felt it was her best interest to stay with him until they were found by the police, rather than turn him in and face her family. If they were indeed in a loving relationship, I don't find it odd that Dial would protect her while he was much older and getting ready to die behind bars. This would not be the first prison romance where a wife falls in love and leaves her family. It doesn't make sense, just like someone making up being abused or confessing to a crime that they did not commit doesn't make sense. but it happens in rare cases.

At the very least Parker was naive for allowing his wife to spend alone time with Dial. Perhaps that wasn't his choice because Bobbi absolutely wanted and made the choice to spend alone time with Dial. she contradicts herself in the Dateline interview by saying she felt uncomfortable being alone with Dial, yet they were seen having coffee and tea together. before the escape she admits to have been in a vehicle alone with him driving him around. She then blames the warden for allowing that to happen when she could have just said no I'm not driving you around town because it makes me uncomfortable with you being a prisoner and me being married. it doesn't really make sense to me. there were a lot of naive people in this case.

https://www.muskogeephoenix.com/agent-wardens-wife-never-said-she-was-raped/article_345516e6-b77d-5037-b0fc-8826cb62f1ff.html

I never knew this. This makes her story much less believable, IMO.

https://www.muskogeephoenix.com/agent-wardens-wife-never-said-she-was-raped/article_345516e6-b77d-5037-b0fc-8826cb62f1ff.html

I never knew this. This makes her story much less believable, IMO.
Yeah this contradicts some of her other statements.

she kind of just shrugs off key details of why she never contacted her husband or why she never escaped when she could have. I believe that it is possible that she did fear dial to the degree that she says she did, but I find it hard to believe that she didn’t escape or call anyone when she had multiple opportunities.

A couple more naive and perhaps grasping-at-straws parents would be: Huey Littleton (Ellender murders) and Tom McFall (Kurt McFall’s father).

Might as well add anyone who believed the satanic cult angles in a lot of these cases—Though moral panic/mass hysteria/Geraldo is powerful.

Cheryl Holland's sister.

A couple more naive and perhaps grasping-at-straws parents would be: Huey Littleton (Ellender murders) and Tom McFall (Kurt McFall’s father).

Might as well add anyone who believed the satanic cult angles in a lot of these cases—Though moral panic/mass hysteria/Geraldo is powerful.

Ooh boy here we go again. Even when no one says anything to provoke it there is always the minuteman squad on here to come out and ridicule anyone who ever believed cults existed or exist. Even though there is documented tangible groups in many of these cases victims were known to be around.

I don't remember the Littleton case right off, but in Kurt McFall's case they actually interviewed the leader of his group. Granted the guy seemed relatively benign if a little odd, but that could easily have been an act. Especially when you had someone interviewed in shadow who contradicted that about this group. And he was one of the last people to see Kurt McFall alive and was in close proximity to his death. Does that mean he was involved? Not necessarily, but it would hardly be naive to look into him or his group. Especially since no other viable theories or motives were presented in Kurt's death, and the evidence was to inconclusive to really prove an accident, suicide or murder.

Its ironic that the so called satanic panic of the 70's and 80's is ridiculed mostly by people who weren't even alive then and get most of their info about it from internet movements and propaganda. the panic itself is far more overblown than cults ever were. Yes, there were people who believed this was a problem, mostly because they actually witnessed things for themselves and knew people who were involved in them. But it was not a panic, average people did not sit up at nights worried about this all the time unless they had good reason to believe a loved one was involved in such things. To portray them as irrational or naive is simply wrong.

Ooh boy here we go again. Even when no one says anything to provoke it there is always the minuteman squad on here to come out and ridicule anyone who ever believed cults existed or exist. Even though there is documented tangible groups in many of these cases victims were known to be around.

I don't remember the Littleton case right off, but in Kurt McFall's case they actually interviewed the leader of his group. Granted the guy seemed relatively benign if a little odd, but that could easily have been an act. Especially when you had someone interviewed in shadow who contradicted that about this group. And he was one of the last people to see Kurt McFall alive and was in close proximity to his death. Does that mean he was involved? Not necessarily, but it would hardly be naive to look into him or his group. Especially since no other viable theories or motives were presented in Kurt's death, and the evidence was to inconclusive to really prove an accident, suicide or murder.

Its ironic that the so called satanic panic of the 70's and 80's is ridiculed mostly by people who weren't even alive then and get most of their info about it from internet movements and propaganda. the panic itself is far more overblown than cults ever were. Yes, there were people who believed this was a problem, mostly because they actually witnessed things for themselves and knew people who were involved in them. But it was not a panic, average people did not sit up at nights worried about this all the time unless they had good reason to believe a loved one was involved in such things. To portray them as irrational or naive is simply wrong.

I actually think Huey Littleton had reason to go after people given the situation. he was a distraught father and he had reason to believe that multiple people were involved with that crime. I think he was upset because the person that committed the crime took his own life and it appeared that the case was closed afterward, when he wanted the case to be fully investigated.

I'm from the 80's and I do think that UM did strike a lot of fear into people by showcasing rare cases.... cults, satan, ghosts, Jesus visions, etc. that's kind of what intrigued me about the show. In my opinion some of it was overblown when it was rare or fake. some of the satanic violence shown is rare or there is just the notion of there being a satanic connection(like dexter stefonek for example) and it strikes fear to think that people that commit this violence could be just around the corner. I do think that there are some things that show did bring to light, some things that go under reported, like human trafficking, violence against women and children, domestic violence, and suicide.

I actually think Huey Littleton had reason to go after people given the situation. he was a distraught father and he had reason to believe that multiple people were involved with that crime. I think he was upset because the person that committed the crime took his own life and it appeared that the case was closed afterward, when he wanted the case to be fully investigated.

I'm from the 80's and I do think that UM did strike a lot of fear into people by showcasing rare cases.... cults, satan, ghosts, Jesus visions, etc. that's kind of what intrigued me about the show. In my opinion some of it was overblown when it was rare or fake. some of the satanic violence shown is rare or there is just the notion of there being a satanic connection(like dexter stefonek for example) and it strikes fear to think that people that commit this violence could be just around the corner. I do think that there are some things that show did bring to light, some things that go under reported, like human trafficking, violence against women and children, domestic violence, and suicide.

I don't recall the satanic angle being presented in the Dexter Stefonek case. I didn't really know what to make of his case to be honest. Why kill a harmless old man who didn't seem to own much worth stealing?

The only theory they presented was that his being hard of hearing may have led to a misunderstanding and pissed someone off. But that seemed like a pretty big leap to me. I see no reason to think the motives may have been satanic though.

I agree it might have been a little overblown, but its absurd to act like cults never existed or were never a problem for anyone.

I don't recall the satanic angle being presented in the Dexter Stefonek case. I didn't really know what to make of his case to be honest. Why kill a harmless old man who didn't seem to own much worth stealing?

The only theory they presented was that his being hard of hearing may have led to a misunderstanding and pissed someone off. But that seemed like a pretty big leap to me. I see no reason to think the motives may have been satanic though.

I agree it might have been a little overblown, but its absurd to act like cults never existed or were never a problem for anyone.

I thought it was at the end of the segment where they mention the bathroom graffiti had 666 written, but I may have mistaken that for a different segment.

UM showed quite a few cults and cult leaders. yes they are real.

I thought it was at the end of the segment where they mention the bathroom graffiti had 666 written, but I may have mistaken that for a different segment.


I believe you're thinking of this case:
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Rachael_Runyan

Truly one of the most heartbreaking stories featured on UM. Her mother's interview is on YouTube on the official UM channel, I believe. I really hope DNA evidence is able to solve this one in the next few years.

I believe you're thinking of this case:
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Rachael_Runyan

Truly one of the most heartbreaking stories featured on UM. Her mother's interview is on YouTube on the official UM channel, I believe. I really hope DNA evidence is able to solve this one in the next few years.

Yeah definitely that is it. and I agree this is one of the worst cases I've ever watched. I too I hope it will be solved.

I believe you're thinking of this case:
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Rachael_Runyan

Truly one of the most heartbreaking stories featured on UM. Her mother's interview is on YouTube on the official UM channel, I believe. I really hope DNA evidence is able to solve this one in the next few years.

I remember reading somewhere that Unsolved Mysteries was going to originally present a much more detailed segment in regards to Rachel Runyan, complete with recreations and interviews with family members. But they ended up scrapping everything and trimmed it down to about two minutes with just one interview with a detective. I think the subject matter was too difficult even for them.

I remember reading somewhere that Unsolved Mysteries was going to originally present a much more detailed segment in regards to Rachel Runyan, complete with recreations and interviews with family members. But they ended up scrapping everything and trimmed it down to about two minutes with just one interview with a detective. I think the subject matter was too difficult even for them.

They actually did film a recreation of the abduction, but it was never used. I can see why they scrapped it. Even hearing about it is sad enough.

https://www.deseret.com/1989/10/30/18830151/sunset-story-called-most-difficult-one-tv-crew-has-done

Here is the interview with Rachael's mother:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULVdSX-tJ0

Pam Corrente, the Mom whose son was gunned down by members of the MS 13 gang.

I realize that she loved her son, but I think she was delusional to think that her son was some innocent bystander. Her son Damian went looking for trouble "with a friend" to jump a bunch of guys who attacked another gang member.

***Another case that never should have been on UM in the first place.

I want to say I am not victim blaming in any way, however the case of the older guy (like WAAAAY older) who met the young girl in the grocery store - he was a butcher, she was a clerk. He was like, 30 years than her! After super horrendous abuse went on, he threatened EVERYONE, the mom was all, "Well I guess if it was God's will, I guess it is!" I was like, yeah no.....SEEK HELP! I get it may have not prevented the outcome but geeeez..... This is also the episode with "He looked at me like he was about to eat a steak" if that helps. Anyone remember the name?

I want to say I am not victim blaming in any way, however the case of the older guy (like WAAAAY older) who met the young girl in the grocery store - he was a butcher, she was a clerk. He was like, 30 years than her! After super horrendous abuse went on, he threatened EVERYONE, the mom was all, "Well I guess if it was God's will, I guess it is!" I was like, yeah no.....SEEK HELP! I get it may have not prevented the outcome but geeeez..... This is also the episode with "He looked at me like he was about to eat a steak" if that helps. Anyone remember the name?
Jim Burnside

Jim Burnside

Thank you! The sad thing I I just watched this on Peacock and could not get Jim Bomgarten's (sp?) name out of my head, lol!

Had my 18 year old daughter brought home a grizzled OLD MAN, yeah.....hard stop and please don't come back around anymore.

How about Mary Kemp?

After super horrendous abuse went on, he threatened EVERYONE, the mom was all, "Well I guess if it was God's will, I guess it is!" I was like, yeah no.....SEEK HELP!

That's not exactly what the mother was referring to. It happened the first time Annette ran away to a secret shelter for battered women. She called Jim and Jim told her if she didn't come home to him, I'll kill the ones you love. Her exact quote was...

"He told her over and over again, if he couldn't find her, she would suffer. She would absolutely suffer because he would kill her family, and Annette felt like she didn't have any other choice. I told her, don't stay with him because of us. If he does anything to us, then...I don't know, I suppose that it's God's will the way things happen the way they do. But don't live with him the way you have to live with him. I would rather be dead than have you live a life like this."

There was a no win situation here but if your mother is saying she'd rather be dead than have to see you live with this monster, I think that's saying something.

I continue to struggle with the circumstances of this case because it's something that could just as easily happen today, and I'm sure it does. You say they should have seek help. But they DID seek help the second time Annette left Jim after the car fiasco. The entire family went to the sheriff's department and they were told, "Sorry. We can't do anything until Jim actually attacks you."

When you're as unhinged and evil as Jim Burnside was, you aren't going to respond to reason or restraining orders. You're just going to be on the hunt until you get the kill and you're not going to let anything stand in your way. And the only way you're going to be safe from a psycho like that is if you have a bodyguard on you 24 hours a day...which obviously isn't feasible for your average every day person.

The saddest reveal of this story is when the mother said Annette basically knew deep down that she wouldn't be alive much longer once she left Jim for good. And she was right. :(

How about Mary Kemp?

This is a good one.

This is a good one.

Yes ironically probably the first naive family member the show had.

That's not exactly what the mother was referring to. It happened the first time Annette ran away to a secret shelter for battered women. She called Jim and Jim told her if she didn't come home to him, I'll kill the ones you love. Her exact quote was...

"He told her over and over again, if he couldn't find her, she would suffer. She would absolutely suffer because he would kill her family, and Annette felt like she didn't have any other choice. I told her, don't stay with him because of us. If he does anything to us, then...I don't know, I suppose that it's God's will the way things happen the way they do. But don't live with him the way you have to live with him. I would rather be dead than have you live a life like this."

There was a no win situation here but if your mother is saying she'd rather be dead than have to see you live with this monster, I think that's saying something.

I continue to struggle with the circumstances of this case because it's something that could just as easily happen today, and I'm sure it does. You say they should have seek help. But they DID seek help the second time Annette left Jim after the car fiasco. The entire family went to the sheriff's department and they were told, "Sorry. We can't do anything until Jim actually attacks you."

When you're as unhinged and evil as Jim Burnside was, you aren't going to respond to reason or restraining orders. You're just going to be on the hunt until you get the kill and you're not going to let anything stand in your way. And the only way you're going to be safe from a psycho like that is if you have a bodyguard on you 24 hours a day...which obviously isn't feasible for your average every day person.

The saddest reveal of this story is when the mother said Annette basically knew deep down that she wouldn't be alive much longer once she left Jim for good. And she was right. :(

absolutely agree with this. I think I also had some Monday morning QB views when I first watched the segment. This is one of the most horrifying segments and you pointed out that it holds up well even today because it is so difficult to predict and prevent domestic violence. Unfortunately I think Annette's fate was sealed the moment she fell in love with him. He was going to hurt himself or someone else if she left him. He used that against her to hold her hostage and unfortunately the longer she stayed with him the worse it got. he even tried to kill the cops when they arrested him, as if he was asking to be killed as well. this was 100% Jim Burnside needing to rot somewhere away from the rest of humanity. that's the only way I see it.

It may be me, or maybe I am forgetting something, but it always struck me as odd that something on a phone bill could lead one to think abduction, murder and then returned to the scene of the abduction. That is why I felt she belonged on this list.

It may be me, or maybe I am forgetting something, but it always struck me as odd that something on a phone bill could lead one to think abduction, murder and then returned to the scene of the abduction. That is why I felt she belonged on this list.

Mary Kemp is a good one!

Re-watching the Don Kemp segment I still don't have a good "theory" on what exactly happened to Don, but I do think there's a strong chance Don either had a mental breakdown and may have committed suicide, OR that Don was not completely heterosexual and his mother was kind of in denial about that. I could definitely be wrong on either count but those were the strong vibes I got.

Indeed. There was no relative of Eddie interviewed. I think DALLASTEXAN was referring more towards Cheryl's sister. Nothing she theorized was true. Her quotes...

"I think Eddie went berserk and Cheryl just happened to be there." (Wrong)

"She didn't know what to do." (Wrong)

"If she did burn the house, it was the only way she figured she could get away from Eddie until she could see it was safe for her and her babies, she was going to have to help him." (Wrong)

"I think Eddie or someone he knows has done something to her. Has killed her." (Wrong)

Those theories by Cheryl's sister may sound nauseating but I have a hard time piling on the sister. We've discussed before how this case was not only brutal but completely unnecessary. Joe and Mattie loved Cheryl as if she were their actual daughter. From the sound of things, if Cheryl had just asked, they would have given her the money in a heartbeat. Nobody ever had to die. If this was completely out of character to the sister she knew, it's only natural she would be in denial. Once Cheryl was captured, the sister had to find out the truth and the betrayal she felt must have been more devastating than the scenarios she had already played out in her head.
thanks for clearing that up. I definitely agree, I can't imagine what it was like for Cheryl's sister to go through that.

Mary Kemp is a good one!

Re-watching the Don Kemp segment I still don't have a good "theory" on what exactly happened to Don, but I do think there's a strong chance Don either had a mental breakdown and may have committed suicide, OR that Don was not completely heterosexual and his mother was kind of in denial about that. I could definitely be wrong on either count but those were the strong vibes I got.

IMHO, Don may have had truck trouble (we never learn if the truck ran out of gas, had a flat tire etc) and underestimated how cold it was (November in New York City is much different than November in Wyoming).

He may have also underestimated how far he was from the nearest town (the trooper said it was 40 miles away, which is definitely not common in the NYC area).

In the frustration that stemmed from these two realizations, he tore through the things in his truck looking for something he felt might have helped, which may explain how some of his things ended up on the highway and side of the road, and he died searching for better shelter than the barn where his socks were found.

IMHO, Don may have had car trouble (we never learn if the car ran out of gas, had a flat tire etc) and underestimated how cold it was (November in New York City is much different than November in Wyoming).

He may have also underestimated how far he was from the nearest town (the trooper said it was 40 miles away, which is definitely not common in the NYC area).

In the frustration that stemmed from these two realizations, he tore through the things in his truck looking for something he felt might have helped, which may explain how they ended up on the highway and side of the road, and he died searching for better shelter than the barn where his socks were found.

That is a really good theory, and much more mundane than the UM segment would have us believe haha

That is a really good theory, and much more mundane than the UM segment would have us believe haha

Only took nearly 11 years of being a member of this board to read such praise. I really do sincerely thank you for your feedback.

With no body, a worried parent can probably convince themself of anything. (Even though it never made sense that Bonnie would secretly enroll her son in a new pre-school and THEN choose to abandon him.) The trouble is, after her remains were found buried IN MICHAEL'S OWN BACKYARD, I read that Bonnie's mother still believed he was innocent and did not celebrate with the rest of the family when the guilty verdict came in. That is denial to the extreme. I don't believe we ever got an updated quote from Bonnie's father.

I finally watched the Bonnie Haim segment this morning, first time a very long time. Even without the update, this segment shows that domestic violence was so bad that she feared for her own life. and it appeared to be substantiated by other people. if she was hiding money from him on multiple occasions after he was physically and mentally abusing her, then yes she saw this coming and was trying to escape. a silent escape attempt shows that she had extreme fear of him. I don't understand why her own parents would side with Michael if they were aware of the abuse that she went through.

how about Leonard Rizzo? he has to be pretty naive to think that people would believe that he got framed in that manner.

I finally watched the Bonnie Haim segment this morning, first time a very long time. Even without the update, this segment shows that domestic violence was so bad that she feared for her own life. and it appeared to be substantiated by other people. if she was hiding money from him on multiple occasions after he was physically and mentally abusing her, then yes she saw this coming and was trying to escape. a silent escape attempt shows that she had extreme fear of him. I don't understand why her own parents would side with Michael if they were aware of the abuse that she went through.

The abuse was substantiated by Michael's own aunt! It seems like all of Michael's family members, outside his parents, knew he was guilty from day one.

But Bonnie's parents refusing to accept the truth, I can't wrap my head around that. How exactly can they can explain their daughter's body being buried in Michael's backyard? :crazy:

The sister of Judith Becker, the psychiatrist murdered by Ricardo Caputo in 1974, comes to mind. Completely denied the relationship that was glaringly obvious to most anyone else.

The abuse was substantiated by Michael's own aunt! It seems like all of Michael's family members, outside his parents, knew he was guilty from day one.

But Bonnie's parents refusing to accept the truth, I can't wrap my head around that. How exactly can they can explain their daughter's body being buried in Michael's backyard? :crazy:

I don't understand that either.

I would say Evelyn Corrado, but I highly suspect she not only knew her son didn't jump from that bridge, but was actively helping him hide out.

I feel somewhat similarly about Judy Gibson, although I don't believe for a second she witnessed Larry killing Tommy, or that she otherwise helped him cover it up. Larry was by several accounts an abusive husband and father, and I think she simply didn't want to initially accept that he was responsible.

While we're on the subject, honorable mention for anyone who actually believes Larry Gibson was taking those stray cats "causing a lot of problems" on his landlord's property to the humane society. You know he was shooting those cats from the get-go.

The sister of Judith Becker, the psychiatrist murdered by Ricardo Caputo in 1974, comes to mind. Completely denied the relationship that was glaringly obvious to most anyone else.

Yuuuuup.

While we're on the subject, honorable mention for anyone who actually believes Larry Gibson was taking those stray cats "causing a lot of problems" on his landlord's property to the humane society. You know he was shooting those cats from the get-go.

I'm a big cat person, but do understand that there are certain times when feral animals need to be deterred or at worst, killed. And Larry Gibson was no stand up guy by any stretch of the imagination, but you have to wonder how things would have played out had he simply admitted from the get-go that he shot Tommy but it was an accident? His three year sentence for manslaughter makes me think the jury believed the accidental shooting theory.

The sister of Judith Becker, the psychiatrist murdered by Ricardo Caputo in 1974, comes to mind. Completely denied the relationship that was glaringly obvious to most anyone else.

Why are people leaving this guy memorials at his online gravesite?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/109385876/ricardo-caputo

Cheryl Holland’s Sister. By coincidence I watchec that episode yesterday. What a good episode. Hendersonville bank robbery , Barney Dewey finding his Sister Angie, and reunion of the only sibling still missing from a broken up family.

Also unfortunately I thought Katy Lynn Nixon’s Mom (and the cop too) thinking that was her at a New Kids on the Block concert.

Also unfortunately I thought Katy Lynn Nixon’s Mom (and the cop too) thinking that was her at a New Kids on the Block concert.

Kari's mother was more of a realist. Her quote was...

"I'm not 100% convinced. But it looks like our Kari."

She was right in that the girl looked amazingly like Kari. But nobody was completely sure at the time.

The abuse was substantiated by Michael's own aunt! It seems like all of Michael's family members, outside his parents, knew he was guilty from day one.

But Bonnie's parents refusing to accept the truth, I can't wrap my head around that. How exactly can they can explain their daughter's body being buried in Michael's backyard? :crazy:

My only thoughts are either they were in total and complete denial, or they were afraid of getting cut off from their grandchild. That can be a powerful motive. If it was the latter, I'm sure they were vomiting in their mouth on UM when being interviewed.

The Wacker children were oblivious to what their parents were doing, IMO.

Almost everyone who said "my *insert family member here* would never commit suicide/commit this crime"

The mother of Diane Brodbeck (who helped convicted murderer Jon Yount escape prison), stands out the most in my mind.

"I know my daughter would not do this."

Yeah mom, she did.

Almost everyone who said "my *insert family member here* would never commit suicide/commit this crime"

The mother of Diane Brodbeck (who helped convicted murderer Jon Yount escape prison), stands out the most in my mind.

"I know my daughter would not do this."

Yeah mom, she did.

truth, I took an UM day today, basically binge watching as much as possible. and I've heard that line more than once. most recently billy ray Hargrove's mom and mike Carmichael's uncle(the KOOOREEEUH guy).

truth, I took an UM day today, basically binge watching as much as possible. and I've heard that line more than once. most recently billy ray Hargrove's mom and mike Carmichael's uncle(the KOOOREEEUH guy).

I love having binge days on either Pluto TV or Amazon.

In a lot of cases I think it's not so much naivete as it is a persistent state of denial, because the truth is just too painful to be an option. Darlie Routier's mother springs to mind.

The best example of this I've seen is the HBO doc "There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane" (not UM obviously, but if you've seen it you know what I'm talking about)

In a lot of cases I think it's not so much naivete as it is a persistent state of denial, because the truth is just too painful to be an option. Darlie Routier's mother springs to mind.

The best example of this I've seen is the HBO doc "There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane" (not UM obviously, but if you seen it you know what I'm talking about)

I'm not surprised that Darlie's mother didn't accuse Darlie of the murders. To this day she is campaigning for Darlie to get another trial. I don't see that happening. The win for Darlie is that it does not appear that she will be executed any time soon and it has been over 20 years, so by now she should be institutionalized.

so the naive family member thread is actually sticking in my head when I watch segments now. I actually cringed when I watched Steve Sandlin's mom's interview. I instantly thought of this thread, eventhough I am convinced Steve was murdered.

The Wacker children were oblivious to what their parents were doing, IMO.

Funny, I always thought it was the Wackers who were oblivious to what someone close to them (perhaps their own kids) were likely doing to them.


If I could throw a name out there, Paul Pollis' mother comes to mind. Now, this is keeping in mind that she has no involvement in what happened. If Paul did it, and she was involved in the clean up, then she's not on this list.

Macy Hill (Scott Hill's wife). Her post-reunion interview starkly contrasted with his, as she thought everything would be hunky-dory at that point

I just watched this one for the first time in years. I got the sense that, much like the other family abandoners who were found (Alex Cooper and Craig Williamson), that he would have preferred to have stayed hidden.

Kenneth Engie's uncle. Give me a break. Side note: I thought the cop interviewed in that segment was one of the best LE officers on the show. Calm, clear, logical, without outright trashing the uncle's absurd theory. I would not have that kind of verbal restraint.

I would say Evelyn Corrado, but I highly suspect she not only knew her son didn't jump from that bridge, but was actively helping him hide out.



I recently rewatched this one and feel the same way. Which makes her remarks about grief even more frustrating, if she really knew he had faked his death. Also her shock that the son's partner would be upfront about everything that happened to reduce his sentence "because she treated him like one of her own" and "made him lunch" kind of cracks me up. Okay lady, because you were nice to him and made him lunches he shouldn't testify against his partner in crime and should just accept a heftier sentence? :lol:

That very_gullible nephew of evil Clarence Roberts! Said clarence may be able to commit suicide but of course not murdering the vagrant! Yeah right.

Thus if he committed suicide the following evils do not happen: vagrant man is not murdered, no insurance fraud, 10 yrs later Clarences wife is not murdered by clarence, no house fires/arsons by the Roberts family. Dumb uncle.

I see that Clarence's hardware store was having a Clearance sale on turpentine, matches, gasoline cans... (according to the nephew his uncle Clarence did the impossible: commit suicide twice!!

Rae Ann Mossor’s family.

The story of a couple who just were married and the husband opened up a fish business and then he went missing and the wife searched all over for him. Then he was located in Florida and they spoke on the phone and he claimed "amnesia" he went to meet her and (couldn't remember her) so they divorced. She bought that hook, line, and sinker! Even at the end of the segment, it was mentioned that the police doubted his story. I felt bad for the wife. He didn't want to be married and ran off and he probably didn't think she'd go to the extreme lengths to find him.

That very_gullible nephew of evil Clarence Roberts! Said clarence may be able to commit suicide but of course not murdering the vagrant! Yeah right.

Thus if he committed suicide the following evils do not happen: vagrant man is not murdered, no insurance fraud, 10 yrs later Clarences wife is not murdered by clarence, no house fires/arsons by the Roberts family. Dumb uncle.

I see that Clarence's hardware store was having a Clearance sale on turpentine, matches, gasoline cans... (according to the nephew his uncle Clarence did the impossible: commit suicide twice!!

This entire segment is such a fascinating story that I grew to appreciate, for all it's weirdness, more and more over the years. Especially when you read articles written online that feature so many details not included in the segment.

What still astounds me is how nobody in town seemed to believe that Clarence died in the first fire, and police even staked out her property for a while to see if the mysterious man constantly seen was in fact Clarence. But it was a lazy effort that they gave up on all too quick. I wish they had busted Geneva. It probably wouldn't have been that hard.

It may be me, or maybe I am forgetting something, but it always struck me as odd that something on a phone bill could lead one to think abduction, murder and then returned to the scene of the abduction. That is why I felt she belonged on this list.

I just watched the Don Kemp segment again and I couldn’t help but wonder if the guy Mary Kemp was badgering decided to move away because of the situation