This is an off-shot of my prior thread regarding the worst showrunners. I immediately thought about making this thread after posting about Jill Farren Phelps (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5840857&postcount=57). I suppose that can go hand and hand with an older thread like this one (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=75114).


Maria Arena Bell (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/maria-arena-bell-has-been-fired/179467)

John Conboy (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/47591-john-conboy-at-gl/)

Chris Goutman (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/35591-what-mistakes-did-christopher-goutman-do-to-get-atwt-cancelled/)

Joe Hardy (https://cstonline.net/no-way-to-treat-a-lady-the-decline-and-fall-of-soap-opera-by-martha-nochimson/)

Dena Higley (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/8420-the-i-hate-dena-higley-thread/)

Lynn Marie Latham (https://marlenadelacroix.com/2008/03/the-young-and-the-restless-how-latham-tried-but-failed-to-reinvent-the-wheel/)

Megan McTavish (https://daytimeroyaltyonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=34016)

Chuck Pratt (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/chuck-pratt-has-ruined-too-many-characterd/19853)

Paul Rauch (https://marlenadelacroix.com/2008/09/hes-back-paul-rauch-for-real/)

Charlotte Savitz (https://www.goldderby.com/forum/daytime-tv/why-were-these-soap-operas-cancelled/#post-1202529599)

Gary Tomlin (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/how-many-ways-can-gary-tomlin-ruin-days/105630)

Frank Valentini (https://poptraction.com/2018/01/20/frank-valentini-just-fired-geniefrancis-bad-idea-dude-gh/)

John Valente (https://www.goldderby.com/forum/daytime-tv/what-was-the-fatal-blow-to-the-shows/#post-421968)

Ellen Wheeler (https://www.showbiz411.com/2009/09/06/20090906guiding-light-murdered-and-theres-a-killer)

Mal Young (https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/soaps/mal-young-tried-to-fix-what-wasnt-broken-on-the-young-and-the-restless/)

I'm surprise James E. Reilly didn't make the list. He was awful for soap operas. Passions had like two or three main storylines that dragged out the entire 8 years of its run. He didn't know how to give closure to one story to create another.

I do remember Megan's handy work from AMC. I think she's the one who redid Erica's abortion story in the weirdest way ever. This was right around the time I quit watching AMC so I maybe a little fuzzy with the details. I believe the doctor who did Erica's abortion took the baby from inside her and placed it inside another woman. It was so stupid. I'm surprise Megan managed to keep writing for AMC after that.

I'm surprise James E. Reilly didn't make the list. He was awful for soap operas. Passions had like two or three main storylines that dragged out the entire 8 years of its run. He didn't know how to give closure to one story to create another.

I do remember Megan's handy work from AMC. I think she's the one who redid Erica's abortion story in the weirdest way ever. This was right around the time I quit watching AMC so I maybe a little fuzzy with the details. I believe the doctor who did Erica's abortion took the baby from inside her and placed it inside another woman. It was so stupid. I'm surprise Megan managed to keep writing for AMC after that.

Well since you brought up James E. Reilly, one comment (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/22241-james-e-reilly-freak-or-visionary/?do=findComment&comment=504864) that I came across said that his success in the '90s was fueled by the perception that viewers need their "fix" of shock value and contributed to an over-reliance on stunts and gimmicks. He identified a gap in the market and shamelessly exploited it.

He you could argue, based plots on misunderstandings. He also had a tendency of writing stereotypes instead of real people and assumed that viewers have the mental age of 12 year olds. Another problem (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/22241-james-e-reilly-freak-or-visionary/?do=findComment&comment=504980) that I read regarding Reilly's writing, was a lack of character progression. Basically, characters never moved on and were always stagnant. His stories were instead, primarily written (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/22241-james-e-reilly-freak-or-visionary/?do=findComment&comment=505057) to shock and awe the viewers.

Another observation (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/22241-james-e-reilly-freak-or-visionary/?do=findComment&comment=504895) states that Reilly was someone whose work was so great on Days of Our Lives the first time around because he had a staff of people around him telling him what would work and what wouldn't. In other words, he was somebody who you wouldn't want to give free reign over.

Another observation (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/22241-james-e-reilly-freak-or-visionary/?do=findComment&comment=504895) states that Reilly was someone work was so great on Days of Our Lives the first time around because he had a staff of people around him telling him what would work and what wouldn't. In other words, he was somebody who you wouldn't want to give free reign over.

I forgot he's the dumbass who ruined Days for me. He had this great serial killer storyline and did a cop out by having all the victims alive on some island. What a waste of time that was. I still have not watched Days since that episode where Marlena wakes up on the island and finds out she never killed anyone.

I know I’m in the minority but I enjoyed Chick Pratt and Mal Young.

5 Awful ‘Bold and the Beautiful’ Plots – Brad Bell Wrecking B&B with Terrible Thomas Doll Story? (https://soapdirt.com/bold-and-the-beautiful-plots-brad-bell-wrecking-bb-with-bad-thomas-doll-story/)

Bold and the Beautiful ratings keep dropping, and bad plots are likely the blame – starting with the Thomas Forrester debacle. Social media’s aflame with complaints about Brad Bell’s direction for the CBS soap opera. Here are five problematic plots that are dragging down the show. Do you agree these need to be over and done on B&B?

#1 Thomas Forrester’s Utterly Idiotic Hope Doll Drama on Bold and the Beautiful
A man falling in love with a doll worked well in the movie Lars and the Real Girl, but it’s ridiculous on the soap. The lower ratings began even before Thomas Forrester unpacked his new obsession – his Malibu Hope Barbie. No doubt, Matthew Atkinson has the acting chops to pull this off – his talent’s not in question.

But the Thomas doll plot is insane. We’re expecting the knock to Thomas Forrester’s head re-activated a brain injury. It could be from when Brooke shoved Thomas over the cliff edge. But most viewers are turned off by Thomas being turned on by a doll on B&B.

#2 Steffy Forrester’s Descent Into Rapid Addiction on B&B
One Bold and the Beautiful watcher commented recently that Brad Bell wouldn’t be happy until he destroys Taylor Hayes’ (Hunter Tylo) and Ridge Forrester’s (Thorsten Kaye) children. Years ago, they killed Phoebe Forrester. Then, they put gorgeous Steffy (who could get any man) in a tug of war with Hope Logan (Annika Noelle) over mediocre Liam Spencer (Scott Clifton).

Then, they made her a drug addict after popping two illegal pills. Hope’s pill habit was much worse, yet she didn’t need rehab. Now, Steffy’s a druggie, and Thomas is talking to dolls… That’s the fate of the “Tridge” kids on B&B.

#3 Holier Than Thou Brooke Logan Trash-Talking Other Women on Bold and the Beautiful
Another CBS sudser issue for many fans is the raising of Brooke Logan (Katherine Kelly Lang) to a pedestal like a bastion of good behavior. The other day, Brooke said Thomas Forrester’s problem was that Taylor’s his mom. Yet it was Brooke always trying to break up their family. Brooke’s a serial cheater.

Brooke made a baby with her daughter’s husband. Yet Bell’s writing dialog for Brooke like she’s Mother Teresa in designer duds instead of the “s*** from the valley”. She started the war with Quinn Fuller (Rena Sofer) telling Eric to leave his wife. Yet Bold and the Beautiful writers forgot Brooke’s sketchy past.

#4 Julius Avant Giving His Blessing to Zende to Chase Skirt – B&B Insanity
Another piece of Bold and the Beautiful ridiculousness was the recent visit from Julius Avant (Obba Babatunde). One has to wonder if they brought in the uber-talented actor as a nod to having an Avant on-screen after Karla Mosley confirmed that the soap cut her from the cast.

No way would Julius show up and tell Zende Forrester (Delon de Metz) to forget his daughter and chase some other woman. It’s insanely out of character and stirred up a pile of negative comments on social media. Even if B&B forgot their character’s arcs and behavior, fans did not.

#5 Liam Spencer’s Obsession With Finn on Bold and the Beautiful
Steffy’s one of the most popular characters on B&B. And most viewers cheered when they finally gave her a new man with hunky Finn (Tanner Novlan). But, Liam’s “gut,” tells him something is off about Finn. And since Brooke, Hope, and Liam are never wrong when Brad Bell’s writing, it’s likely something comes out bad about Finn.

Once again, this circles back to Bell’s undeniable pro-Logan stance on Bold and the Beautiful. The Forresters can’t have nice things – unless a Logan says it’s okay. If Finn does turn out to be a bad seed, watch ratings fall some more.

Ratings Plummet – And That’s Before Disastrous Doll Drama
Bold and the Beautiful ratings dropped more than 150,000 viewers from the week before and almost 500,000 from this time last year. And that’s before Thomas pulled the bubble wrap off his new toy. We predict B&B ratings tumble again for this messy mannequin move.

Meanwhile, the CBS show’s got top talent warming the bench – like Heather Tom and Don Diamont with no storylines. With months on hiatus to revamp storylines, B&B fans are now watching Thomas Forrester talk to a doll (and fans are horrified wondering what else he’s about to do to it…). Can’t they do better?

I personally thought Maria Arena Bell was a good executive producer/writer. 2008-2009 had lots of great storylines like the return of Adam, moving on to new horizons and testing out Jack and Sharon, the return of Billy, the return of Esther’s long lost daughter who changed her name to Chloe, the return of fan favorites like Christine, Nina, and Danny, B&B characters like Amber Moore and Deacon Sharpe crossing over to Y&R, the return of Mackenzie and her being involved in the Billy/Chloe mess, the Katherine/Jill DNA storyline concluding, the Nick/Sharon/Phyllis storyline, Cane being called out for faking the DNA tests with the REAL Phillip “returning from the dead”, the return of Chance, the return of Patty and the Jack/Patty/Emily storyline with Patty poisoning Summer, the Lily cancer storyline, the return of Malcolm, the Nick/Sharon/Ashley/Adam/Faith gaslight storyline, Victor and Jack at it again after Colleen drowns and later dies in the hands of Patty and I could go on and on. It was Hogan Sheffer and Scott Hamner who slowed her down.

I know I’m in the minority but I enjoyed Chick Pratt and Mal Young.
There were a lot of fun moments under Chuck Pratt’s reign like balls, galas, fires, explosions, but there were still some sucky storylines like the Phyllis/Marco/Jack/Victor rape storyline, which made Victor out to be an evil, demented, vindictive sicko and ruined the character beyond recovery, the Devon/Hilary/Neil love triangle, the Billy/Chelsea storyline, the Adam/Gabriel Bingham/Chelsea/Sage storyline, the Austin storyline, the Sully storyline, the Jack/Phyllis/Billy love triangle, the Noah/Marissa storyline, the Kevin/Mariah storyline, the Jill/Colin bank account storyline which led to Jill having heart disease, Chloe setting fire in the cabin and “killing” Adam, the Dylan witness protection storyline. Mal Young’s storylines were just beyond stupid and he wrote for Y&R as if it was some cheap, British primetime drama. His storylines and plots were not meant to be stretched out and dragged on five days a week. He totally gave the show a bad name and I think the show is still suffering from his tenure. He came up with some crappy, horrible storylines like Scotty/Phyllis, like really, sleeping with your OWN mom’s FRIEND, the Scotty/Sharon/Abby love triangle storyline, the Nick/Chelsea storyline, the Ashley/Ravi storyline, the Kevin/Chloe runaway storyline, the Graham Bloodworth/Dina/
Alzheimer’s storyline, the Chelsea runaway storyline, the J.T./Victoria domestic abuse storyline, the J.T. storyline, the Abbott paternity test storyline, the Jabot storyline, the Hilary storyline, the short reunion of Nick and Sharon with Phyllis butting in AGAIN, the sudden replacement of the Williams’/Baldwin-Fishers/Hamilton-Winters with the Rosales family.

I'm surprise James E. Reilly didn't make the list. He was awful for soap operas. Passions had like two or three main storylines that dragged out the entire 8 years of its run. He didn't know how to give closure to one story to create another.

I do remember Megan's handy work from AMC. I think she's the one who redid Erica's abortion story in the weirdest way ever. This was right around the time I quit watching AMC so I maybe a little fuzzy with the details. I believe the doctor who did Erica's abortion took the baby from inside her and placed it inside another woman. It was so stupid. I'm surprise Megan managed to keep writing for AMC after that.

I'm cribbing this from the old TWoP forums (https://web.archive.org/web/20140330190535/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3190920-serial-killers-who-slew-the-soaps/#entry12378772):
And on that note I place one of Reilly's prime acolytes in the stocks for some richly-deserved abuse. I am talking, of course, of Bob Guza (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/10524430-robert-guza-will-be-standing-in-the-unemployment-line.), the man (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/sonny-found-a-wire-on-brenda-on-general-hospital-25-years-ago-this-month.3759003/post-61019846) who killed (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/maurice-benard-sonny-gh-teasish.4042474/post-74728250) GENERAL HOSPITAL (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/general-hospital.28295/post-1286426). (Yes, I realize that a soap calling itself GENERAL HOSPITAL is still on the air. But it's basically a shambling corpse at this point). To Reilly (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/GeneralHospital)'s already-toxic brew of cracked-out stunt writing, Guza (https://boards.soapcentral.com/forum/daytime-drama-series-soap-operas/general-hospital/2100920-would-you-take-bob-guza-back/page3) added (https://daytimeconfidential.com/2011/10/25/how-general-hospital-ruined-the-legacy-of-robins-hiv-saga) three even more (https://www.mediavillage.com/article/classic-ed-the-worst-mistake-general-hospital-ever-made/) poisonous elements (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/41821-your-memories-of-guzas-gh/): Wildly skewed (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/general-hospital%E2%80%99s-steve-burton-signals-a-white-power-hand-gesture.4441357/post-69029552) writing, the Untouchable Alpha Male (https://boards.soapcentral.com/forum/daytime-drama-series-soap-operas/general-hospital/2544953-jason-sonny-how-did-it-all-begin), and, worst of all, vicious, unapologetic misogyny (https://marlenadelacroix.com/2013/03/general-hospital-the-misogyny-ending-magic-of-sabrina-a-50th-anniversary-appeal-to-gh-fans-in-the-poconos/). It is Guza who is responsible for writing which places certain characters beyond the reach (https://daytimeroyaltyonline.com/bob-guza-out-at-general-hospital-t31287.html) of any consequences for their actions, however vile (https://marlenadelacroix.com/2008/05/general-hospitals-monstrous-lies-all-my-childrens-truthful-memories/) they may be. Guza who pioneered, with his Frankenstein creation of Sonny Corinthos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Corinthos), the male character who couldn't be beaten, couldn't even be challenged, who every person on the canvas sings the praises of (regardless of how out-of-character this may be), and for who the entire frame of the show is yanked out of shape and the entire canvas is warped in order that he be the sole focus. And of course it was Bob Guza who introduced (https://www.reddit.com/r/GeneralHospital/comments/tlr1nc/do_the_writers_frequent_the_gh_reddit/) to daytime such terms of endearment for female characters as "bitch", "slut", and the ever-popular "whore". (Ironically, while elevating to heroine status truly whorish characters and continually beating down any intelligent, independent female characters he hadn't already killed off).

Reilly may have initiated soap opera's race to the bottom, but Guza added rocket fuel to it and sped it up exponentially.

Furthermore (https://web.archive.org/web/20140330190604/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3190920-serial-killers-who-slew-the-soaps/page-2#entry12955598):
Under Guza's reign, GH has developed a horrible habit of frequently and violently killing off many popular characters, particularly beloved veterans (Alan Quatermaine) and "good girl" young woman (Georgie Jones, Emily Bowen Quatermaine). In particular, head writer Bob Guza has whittled the Quatermaines, formerly one of the show's core families, down to nothing. Now he is trying to shore them back up again by bringing in Maya Ward and Brooke Lynne Ashton, two of family patriarch Edward's great-granddaughters, but to be honest, I'd rather have some, if not all, of the old Q's come "back from the dead.".

I loved the Paul Rauch era of OLTL. It was my favorite.

I lost interest in the show when Michael Malone took over.