I swear to God, when I watch some LITB eps, the girls in it make my blood boil.
I think it’s outrageous how theyexpect Wally to spend extravagant amounts of money on them. Cases in point, the ep where Wally’s date wants him to buy her an orchid corsage for $7.50 (about $65 today) or to take them to an ultra-expensive restaurant, like The White Fox on MeTV today where the “special” is $6.25 (about $55 today). It really doesn’t say a lot about their values or how they were brought up. Your thoughts, or if you have them, more examples.

Who was it that came up with the idea that a wedding/engagement ring should cost 1/4 of a man's salary?

Who was it that came up with the idea that a wedding/engagement ring should cost 1/4 of a man's salary?

Probably.....some freakin’ inconsiderate girl!

The idea was embedded in popular culture in the West by an advertising drive from the De Beers diamond cartel that started in the lean years of the 1930s.

If you really care about the girl...

https://i.postimg.cc/d0wHmkvz/A1nzj-X0-Vn-L-SL1500.jpg

It really doesn’t say a lot about their values or how they were brought up. Your thoughts, .

I always felt that Wally was cast as being somewhat of a "trophy" boyfriend. Handsome, athletic, with principles.....the kind the girls would swoon over.

So, I felt that it was poetic justice in a way, that he was still having to run in the same dating treadmill as the rest of us guys,

That way when his first wife leaves him and has the stone from her wedding band reset into an ornamental ring, just to show off to her peers as "spoils of war", it won't come as such a crushing blow. ;)

... that he was still having to run in the same dating treadmill as the rest of us guys,


I am not sure what you mean? He was limited to the girls of the town, but he could choose those thought to be at the top of the list. So it wasn't the same dating treadmill. Many could never even get on the treadmill.

Everyone got to look at Julie Foster, but only a few had the privilege to even spend their money on her.

I think we might have differing perspectives TY

The "treadmill" that I was talking about was the need to provide the appropriate trinkets (orchid, etc) to win favor, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US BUMS have to.


You see, that's why years later when his soon to be ex wife takes the $8,500 center stone out of her wedding band, and has it mounted in a generic band that she flaunts to her friends as a trophy,Wally will have some basis to guage it by, and not think that the world is just cruel to him alone.

The "treadmill" that I was talking about was the need to provide the appropriate trinkets (orchid, etc) to win favor, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US BUMS have to.


Oh, you thought Wally was going to get his *(&^ for free.
Heck no. All guys pay. Didn't Ward say the boys needed to learn that women were going to cost them money the rest of their lives?

Well, my thoughts stem from the way that Wally was often given almost celebrity status, such as when he gets tricked into delivering ice cream to the girls slumber party, and the girls were all giddy with that "OOOOOUhhh, WALLY CLEAVER!!" routine..

I think girls get a bad rap on LITB. They are depicted as frivolous, demanding, fake, conniving and some downright dreadful. The only girls with any substance are Jill Bartlett, Kitty, Gail Preston, Linda Dennison, Violet Rutherford and Judy Walker. Look at the girls who give Wally and Beaver a hard time.

Mary Tyler who likes Beaver but goes after his brother
Myra Barker (Parker) who expects Wally to get her an orchid and deserts him
MaryEllen Rogers who dupes Wally into taking her to a dance
Penny Jamison, learning early how to manipulate boys
Georgia Batson demanding Wally to get the train set
Julie Foster a.k.a Gloria Kusick expecting so much from Wally
and Julie can dish it out but can’t take it.
That Betsy who can’t wait to see Wally at a Barons party and thinks Rick Davis is dreamy. Dreamy that guy?
Evelyn Boothby who just wants someone to marry and get a darling apartment.
How about tennis ace, Carol Martin, who just uses Wally to make her boyfriend jealous.
Betsy Carter who gets back at Beaver by embarrassing him and Penny Woods who is super confident and obnoxious. I forgot Judy Hensler who is just plain obnoxious. Let’s not forget Shirley Fletcher who tells Wally how to drive and that girl from SC, Melinda, who threatens Beaver that he’ll wish he was never born. Marlene Holmes was just a party girl not out to insult Wally and Ginny Townsend just had the heartbreak of allergies.

First prize goes to the girls (Shirley) who call Beaver sheepdog. “Sheepdog-sheepdog-sheepdog.” Huh what?

There are so many more girls who I’m sure we can add to the list.

I think girls get a bad rap on LITB. They are depicted as frivolous, demanding, fake, conniving and some downright dreadful. The only girls with any substance are Jill Bartlett, Kitty, Gail Preston, Linda Dennison, Violet Rutherford and Judy Walker. Look at the girls who give Wally and Beaver a hard time.

Mary Tyler who likes Beaver but goes after his brother
Myra Barker (Parker) who expects Wally to get her an orchid and deserts him
MaryEllen Rogers who dupes Wally into taking her to a dance
Penny Jamison, learning early how to manipulate boys
Georgia Batson demanding Wally to get the train set
Julie Foster a.k.a Gloria Kusick expecting so much from Wally
and Julie can dish it out but can’t take it.
That Betsy who can’t wait to see Wally at a Barons party and thinks Rick Davis is dreamy. Dreamy that guy?
Evelyn Boothby who just wants someone to marry and get a darling apartment.
How about tennis ace, Carol Martin, who just uses Wally to make her boyfriend jealous.
Betsy Carter who gets back at Beaver by embarrassing him and Penny Woods who is super confident and obnoxious. I forgot Judy Hensler who is just plain obnoxious. Let’s not forget Shirley Fletcher who tells Wally how to drive and that girl from SC, Melinda, who threatens Beaver that he’ll wish he was never born. Marlene Holmes was just a party girl not out to insult Wally and Ginny Townsend just had the heartbreak of allergies.

First prize goes to the girls (Shirley) who call Beaver sheepdog. “Sheepdog-sheepdog-sheepdog.” Huh what?

There are so many more girls who I’m sure we can add to the list.

You make a good point, and man, your encyclopedic knowledge of the show is amazing.

I do think there is a lot of sexism in the ep writing, and it’s a shame, cause none of the girls or women I know behave like this.

Yes! Outstanding list!! I never saw it all put together like that, but when you see it, it's amazing.

Yes, Julie can dish it out (dating Wayne Gregory because he has a mustache) but can't take it (Wally goes over to Cindy Andrews' house--what business is that of hers?)

Mary Ellen befriended Beaver to dupe Wally, who at this point was as naive as Beaver was in the later seasons. Mary Ellen seemed to straighten out later. Her alter-ego Myra is pretty bad, as you say.

Others for the list: Alma Hanson--although I think her parents were worse, particularly the mother; Frances Hobbs, the sweater-stealing operator; Margie Manners, who uses Wally to get out of doing her maid work; Ginny Townsend, sun allergy, chicken allergy, wind blowing her hair aversion, etc.

A few girls who were comparatively nice (most you mentioned):

Linda Dennison

Donna Yeager (a little dramatic with her parents, though) and her alter ego, the paper girl

Kathy Gregory

Jill Bartlett

Kitty Bannerman

Gail Preston (wear flats, Gail)

Lori-Ann, the girl in Un-Togetherness

Wouldn't it have been funny if Georgia had pulled out a water pistol, and said: All right, you either get that train set for Jimmy, or you're gonna get soakee!

It is a product of its time. Written by men, plenty of sexism. Not a black person to be found. I think Roseanne was the first show to depict women keeping the family together, financially and emotionally.

I love Beaver, but it is very dated.

It is a product of its time. Written by men, plenty of sexism. Not a black person to be found. I think Roseanne was the first show to depict women keeping the family together, financially and emotionally.

I love Beaver, but it is very dated.

There was one black person found in The Parking Attendants.

There were episodes where a woman was part of the writing team (normally, of two) but put another way, there were no episodes where a man wasn't part of the writing team.

The sexism point is well taken, and there were virtually no sitcoms of the time that had any minorities. (One exception was Father Knows Best, which had Natividad Vacio, a Mexican, in a recurring role. He played a gardener but there were episode scripts which centered on him, virtually unheard of in the 50s.)

There was one black person found in The Parking Attendants.

Yep, Kim Hamilton. She even had a few lines.

It is a product of its time. Written by men, plenty of sexism. Not a black person to be found. I think Roseanne was the first show to depict women keeping the family together, financially and emotionally.

I love Beaver, but it is very dated.

I would have to think on that for a while but off the top of my head LHTP. Caroline ran Nellie's store when Charles was injured and then kept on running it.

Emotionally, it's always been, women.

I love Beaver, but it is very dated.

Indeed. This little sentence says so much! So I try to take the show’s peccadilloes with a grain of salt, and am grateful we have made some distance from them.

t’s a shame, cause none of the girls or women I know behave like this.

It might be worth mentioning that the show was intentionally written from the child's perspective. And as I recall, gaining the "approval" of the fairer sex at the first few dances that a young man participates in, invariably appear to be high hurdles indeed.

So, the anticipation of daunting "expectations" does not strike me as unrealistic, at all.

Further, the writers were free in portraying Eddie and Lumpy as peers with character flaws, so I do not buy it that being similarly frank about friends happening to be girls was necessarily "sexist"
.
Afterall, the Tonya Hardings of the world have to come from somewhere.

Eventually little girls like Judy get fed up finding notes stuck on their backs saying "kick me", and naturally start looking for ways to get even. :loveya:

It might be worth mentioning that the show was intentionally written from the child's perspective. And as I recall, gaining the "approval" of the fairer sex at the first few dances that a young man participates in, invariably appear to be high hurdles indeed.

So, the anticipation of daunting "expectations" does not strike me as unrealistic, at all.

Further, the writers were free in portraying Eddie and Lumpy as peers with character flaws, so I do not buy it that being similarly frank about friends happening to be girls was necessarily "sexist"
.
Afterall, the Tonya Hardings of the world have to come from somewhere.

But there are many ways girls can play hard to get without breaking a boy’s bank. But certainly, the show was function of its time, so I factor that in when watching. It definitely doesn’t detract from my love of the show.

But there are many ways girls can play hard to get without breaking a boy’s bank. But certainly, the show was function of its time, so I factor that in when watching. It definitely doesn’t detract from my love of the show.

This is just me speaking, but I saw the orchid as a metaphor of sorts, representing many things that might be viewed as a "chore" leading towards marital bliss.

^^^^
Hasn't the whole romantic notion of love been centered around "winning her love"? I wasn't aware that would be considered a chore.

Perhaps "bribe" might have been a better word choice, it was mostly the concept I was focused on.

BTW, I notice that you didn't find it necessary to debate the meaning of the word "metaphor", which is really the concept I was trying to establish.

But there are many ways girls can play hard to get without breaking a boy’s bank. But certainly, the show was function of its time, so I factor that in when watching. It definitely doesn’t detract from my love of the show.

Conniving females are timeless. They're here today, too. Males, too.

Conniving females are timeless. They're here today, too. Males, too.

True enough there will always be conniving people, but I think less so now - at least in the ways portrayed in LITB.

True enough there will always be conniving people, but I think less so now - at least in the ways portrayed in LITB.

Folks were, on the whole, more subtle re being conniving than most connivers are nowadays.

Never underestimate anyone.

I so totally love how this thread has taken off! Thanks everyone!

Never underestimate anyone.

Very good advice that I certainly adhere to.

Conniving females are timeless. They're here today, too. Males, too.

In the case of Wally's sweater and that girl had it and would not give it back, she was conniving.

The gal that wanted the orchid, to me was not conniving. She simply asked for the orchid. If she had said something like "no orchid, no date", then I would say she was conniving. Most of the angst was on Wally's end when HE decided she HAD to have the orchid.

The gal that used Beaver to get to Wally was conniving. I think Julie Foster was inconsiderate to ask for the White fox IF she knew how expensive it was, not conniving.

Wally brought a lot of the girls on himself by not saying "no".

In the case of Wally's sweater and that girl had it and would not give it back, she was conniving.

The gal that wanted the orchid, to me was not conniving. She simply asked for the orchid. If she had said something like "no orchid, no date", then I would say she was conniving. Most of the angst was on Wally's end when HE decided she HAD to have the orchid.

The gal that used Beaver to get to Wally was conniving. I think Julie Foster was inconsiderate to ask for the White fox IF she knew how expensive it was, not conniving.

Wally brought a lot of the girls on himself by not saying "no".

We’re essentially in agreement. I wouldn’t conceive of the orchid or White Fox scenarios as conniving but as grossly inconsiderate. No well-brought up girl would ask such outrageous things; this may sound harsh but these kinds of antics are budding professional escort behaviors. That their parents would allow them to take advantage of a boy this way is appalling.

this may sound harsh but ...


Well, since you broached the concept, I'll pitch in with a side thought I had earlier.

As young men start to find interest in young women, it really is a hurdle at first, trying to figure out what it will take to find acceptance. It's a rite of passage. Girls on the other hand, know right off the bat what will win them acceptance by the boys. But their mothers brainwash them that "nice girls don't play that way".

And the conflict between the two, has been keeping divorce courts full,..... for years. :D

Regarding the Expensive Orchid Wally had to buy - at the end of the episode when June pulls out hers pressed in the book pages from when Ward gave it to her - that SAID A LOT about the situation at hand and the reality of relationships - for better - for worse. It's kinda interesting that the writers wrote it that Ward didn't even remember the Orchid purchase, possibly meaning the the purchase was of little consequence compared to the reward he my have obtained (eventually) lol

In The Dick van Dyke Show Rob struggles to meet and win Laura, not only did she have no interest in him BUT actually dis-liked him. Today we would call him a creep or worse ... a stalker or something (No Means NO). Or am I wrong and this is actually happening today and I'm not part of it ?

Wow I agree how this thread took off in many directions. As someone said the show is dated but it certainly depicted how things were. I had a friend, quite pretty, whose mother actually encouraged her to be friendly with this rich older guy to get all she could. Can you image telling your daughter to ‘get all she could’ then drop him. That’s what a lot of the girls on Beaver and other shows were doing. How could I forget Frances Hobbs, the sweater stealer who sat at a counter and bragged how she had Wally wrapped around her finger. How perfect his parents were enjoying a black and white at the time.

Good discussion! How times have changed for the better. As I recall when June was asked what sort of a girl she would want for Wally she said something like ‘a girl who can cook and clean, keep a nice house, make him happy and all that rot.’ Ward says he got the last one of them. Boy women had so much to look forward to. I so admire women from our past who proved themselves in other ways like Deborah Sampson who fought as a man in the revolution, Mother Jones and Elizabeth Blackwell. So many more.

Regarding the Expensive Orchid Wally had to buy - at the end of the episode when June pulls out hers pressed in the book pages from when Ward gave it to her - that SAID A LOT about the situation at hand and the reality of relationships - for better - for worse. It's kinda interesting that the writers wrote it that Ward didn't even remember the Orchid purchase, possibly meaning the the purchase was of little consequence compared to the reward he my have obtained (eventually) lol

In The Dick van Dyke Show Rob struggles to meet and win Laura, not only did she have no interest in him BUT actually dis-liked him. Today we would call him a creep or worse ... a stalker or something (No Means NO). Or am I wrong and this is actually happening today and I'm not part of it ?

It’s also possible he was bring coy. And pretending not to know. But here buying June the orchid was appropriate; they had been going together and he did it of his own volition. Besides, it was sweet that she saved it - as well she should considering how much the corsage cost.

Wow I agree how this thread took off in many directions. As someone said the show is dated but it certainly depicted how things were. I had a friend, quite pretty, whose mother actually encouraged her to be friendly with this rich older guy to get all she could. Can you image telling your daughter to ‘get all she could’ then drop him. That’s what a lot of the girls on Beaver and other shows were doing. How could I forget Frances Hobbs, the sweater stealer who sat at a counter and bragged how she had Wally wrapped around her finger. How perfect his parents were enjoying a black and white at the time.

Good discussion! How times have changed for the better. As I recall when June was asked what sort of a girl she would want for Wally she said something like ‘a girl who can cook and clean, keep a nice house, a good cook, make him happy and all that rot.’ Ward says he got the last one of them. Boy women had so much to look forward to. I so admire women from our past who proved themselves in other ways like Deborah Sampson who fought as a man in the revolution and Elizabeth Blackwell. So many more.

And sadly even more currently. A good case in point: Tammi Jo Schults, who documented all the discrimination she faced trying to be a pilot. She persevered and look what happened - she saved 148 lives! Thank God we as a society are finally beginning NOT to hold women back! I wonder how all those ass##le male-chauvinist pilots and officers feel now! It reminds me of a Women’s Liberation expression from the 70’s: A woman’s place is in the house...The White House! and regardless of political party, so glad to see that’s finally happened.

Of course Wally learned a good lesson about spending money to impress a popular girl, he didn’t really know, who danced with juniors because she dated older guys. He doesn’t learn much because later he’s always trying to impress girls like Julie and the White Fox who said Wally was so sophisticated. Later Julie throws him over for a mustache and says Wally’s naive and immature. It’s just the writers, though.

And sadly even more currently. A good case in point: Tammi Jo Schults, who documented all the discrimination she faced trying to be a pilot. She persevered and look what happened - she saved 148 lives! Thank God we as a society are finally beginning NOT to hold women back! I wonder how all those ass##le male-chauvinist pilots and officers feel now! It reminds me of a Women’s Liberation expression from the 70’s: A woman’s place is in the house...The White House! and regardless of political party, so glad to see that’s finally happened.

Tammie Jo Shults (born Bonnell; born November 2, 1961) is a retired American commercial airline captain, author, and retired naval aviator. Known for being one of the first female fighter pilots to serve in the United States Navy, following active duty she became a pilot for Southwest Airlines.[2] She retired from Southwest Airlines in 2020.

On April 17, 2018, as captain of Southwest Airlines Flight 1380, she safely landed a Boeing 737-700 after the aircraft suffered an uncontained engine failure with debris causing rapid decompression of the aircraft.

Tammie Jo Shults (born Bonnell; born November 2, 1961) is a retired American commercial airline captain, author, and retired naval aviator. Known for being one of the first female fighter pilots to serve in the United States Navy, following active duty she became a pilot for Southwest Airlines.[2] She retired from Southwest Airlines in 2020.

On April 17, 2018, as captain of Southwest Airlines Flight 1380, she safely landed a Boeing 737-700 after the aircraft suffered an uncontained engine failure with debris causing rapid decompression of the aircraft.

Yup and her book Nerves Of Steel is really great. Love her!

Wow she certainly was a heroine. Love reading about strong women who beat the odds. RBG was another fighter.

Wow she certainly was a heroine. Love reading about strong women who beat the odds. RBG was another fighter.

Agreed. RBG really rocked the clock!

LMAO.

Go into any bar, put a quarter in the jukebox, and I'd say you have a 50/50 chance of hearing a song lamenting about the type of women this thread is about.

Regardless if it's Jim Morrison singing "women seem wicked, when you're unwanted" or Bon Jovi singing "You give love a bad name". (or conversely, even Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots")....this only confirms that the earlier observations are hardly unique to "sexist 1950's script writers".

What's next? Should we get a burr in our saddle over Married With Children's man-hating portrayal of Vinnie Verducci? Or maybe just smile over the coincidence we may know someone remarkably similar to him?

LMAO.

Go into any bar, put a quarter in the jukebox, and I'd say you have a 50/50 chance of hearing a song lamenting about the type of women this thread is about.

Regardless if it's Jim Morrison singing "women seem wicked, when you're unwanted" or Bon Jovi singing "You give love a bad name". (or conversely, even Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots")....this only confirms that the earlier observations are hardly unique to "sexist 1950's script writers".

What's next? Should we get a burr in our saddle over Married With Children's man-hating portrayal of Vinnie Verducci? Or maybe just smile over the coincidence we may know someone remarkably similar to him?

Never said that sexism has completely disappeared, just that it has waned somewhat.

LMAO.

Go into any bar, put a quarter in the jukebox, and I'd say you have a 50/50 chance of hearing a song lamenting about the type of women this thread is about.

Regardless if it's Jim Morrison singing "women seem wicked, when you're unwanted" or Bon Jovi singing "You give love a bad name". (or conversely, even Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots")....this only confirms that the earlier observations are hardly unique to "sexist 1950's script writers".

What's next? Should we get a burr in our saddle over Married With Children's man-hating portrayal of Vinnie Verducci? Or maybe just smile over the coincidence we may know someone remarkably similar to him?


Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots" 14,000,000+ Views
This in one HOT video for the 60's era !

One of These Day These Boots are Gunna WALK ALL OVER YOU !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2fPkzJsMU8

Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots" 14,000,000+ Views
This in one HOT video for the 60's era !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2fPkzJsMU8

I agree. She knew how to work it. What a fun #1.

Respectfully, the way I see it, I believe you have drawn a line in the sand, and have become determined to take offense where it is almost completely unnecessary.

I knew girls from back in the period who were carbon copies of the gals referenced earlier in this thread. IT's not that ALL girls are this way, it's more like "the ones who were this way are highly memorable" And not for the best reasons. I feel fortunate that I managed to steer away from the worst of them. Perhaps shows like LITB gave me a "heads up" type warning?

Just as with my comment about Vinnie. I just smile with the portrayal, recalling how I once knew people remarkably similar to them.

This is not a reflection on you in anyway, I just think it is the "bad apples" we remember the longest.

Nancy Sinatra singing "Boots" 14,000,000+ Views
This in one HOT video for the 60's era !

One of These Day These Boots are Gunna WALK ALL OVER YOU !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2fPkzJsMU8

Some might argue that the video you link to is "sexist".

Some might argue that the video you link to is "sexist".

Hmm, is it tended towards men or women?

Its funny the way women have reacted to their "freedoms". Taking your clothes off or dancing provocatively is supposed to be freedom, but it is also giving the man what he wanted in the first place.

Is that sexist? I am not sure. I am saying that I honestly do not know.

Respectfully, the way I see it, I believe you have drawn a line in the sand, and have become determined to take offense where it is almost completely unnecessary.


Who are you talking too and what are you talking about? I am confused.

Respectfully, the way I see it, I believe you have drawn a line in the sand, and have become determined to take offense where it is almost completely unnecessary.

I knew girls from back in the period who were carbon copies of the gals referenced earlier in this thread. IT's not that ALL girls are this way, it's more like "the ones who were this way are highly memorable" And not for the best reasons. I feel fortunate that I managed to steer away from the worst of them. Perhaps shows like LITB gave me a "heads up" type warning?

Just as with my comment about Vinnie. I just smile with the portrayal, recalling how I once knew people remarkably similar to them.

This is not a reflection on you in anyway, I just think it is the "bad apples" we remember the longest.

Not sure to whom you are referring. I didn’t see anyone offended. Who do you think was offended and why?

Its funny the way women have reacted to their "freedoms". Taking your clothes off or dancing provocatively is supposed to be freedom, but it is also giving the man what he wanted in the first place.

.

Right on the point I was thinking of. aka "Anything that gives your opponent a sense of satisfaction must be scorned as unacceptable".

An old axiom that I am personally fond of, is that people who are looking for trouble, usually find it.

We are also too accustomed to attributing to a single cause, problems which are the product of many. It is from this truth that a majority of our controversies come from.

Not sure to whom you are referring. I didn’t see anyone offended. Who do you think was offended and why?

When you earlier stated that the way the girl's behavior was portrayed "made your blood boil", and then went a step even further to emphasize you felt the portrayal was sexist because none of the women you know behave like this......and then went even further to punctuate your position by stating " I wonder how all those ass##le male-chauvinist....."

It just started to look like you were getting pretty well invested emotionally....

And I just didn't want my determination to air my POV to appear as though I was trying to provoke you.

Who are you talking too and what are you talking about? I am confused.

Oh Nuts! and I have it covered. Thanks, though.

When you earlier stated that the way the girl's behavior was portrayed "made your blood boil", and then went a step even further to emphasize you felt the portrayal was sexist because none of the women you know behave like this......and then went even further to punctuate your position by stating " I wonder how all those ass##le male-chauvinist....."

It just started to look like you were getting pretty well invested emotionally....

And I just didn't want my determination to air my POV to appear as though I was trying to provoke you.

OK thanks for clarifying. I’m not offended at any poster on this thread. When I start a thread for discussion, I don’t start it to have my opinion rubber-stamped and enjoy hearing opposing/other points of view, as long as they’re respectfully made, which yours were. And some of your observations are illuminating.

But YES I do find the behavior of the two LITB girls highly offensive.

I’m glad there’s a lot of spirited discussion going on! This thread has really taken off.

But YES I do find the behavior of the two LITB girls highly offensive.



Because the writers made them behave that way which could be considered sexist, yet you feel that the girls would not have normally behaved that way?

So much of this is our own upbringing and how we see the world. One thing I know for sure, is men miss the boat on what we women are thinking or what our motivations are.

One other side to this that I'd like to tack up on the board for consideration, is that the show had 30 minutes to establish a premise, and work out a conclusion that (hopefully) contained "redeeming moral content"

So, the girls blatant insistence for upscale trinkets, and lavish dining accommodations might have been just an expedient way to "set up" for expectation of the boys need to make a proper impression To do the "right things".

While I've never had a gal insist that she would accept my company ONLY IF I TOOK HER to a suitably upscale restaurant.....I can recall numerous times where the gal "requested" that I let her make the dinner reservations...with very similar (white fox-like) outcome.

And we guys all know as far as gifts are concerned , if we fail make a proper statement, what kind of feedback to expect.

One thing I know for sure, is men miss the boat on what we women are thinking or what our motivations are.

What is that book? Men are from Mars and women are from Venus?

What is that book? Men are from Mars and women are from Venus?

Don't know. I have never read something like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_from_Mars,_Women_Are_from_Venus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_from_Mars,_Women_Are_from_Venus

Thanks for the link!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_from_Mars,_Women_Are_from_Venus


I read that years ago

was good iirc

I always wanted to read that book. I knew there were mean girls growing up and boys but girls definitely. Cruel and hurtful. One in particular learned early as she was spoiled rotten. She wound up as a sad adult. I noticed girls who were spoiled by daddy or mommy were not nice people and had no empathy at all.

My mother never had to teach us to care about people’s feelings. We just watched her.

Dropping another quarter in the jukebox, Rod Stewart seems almost heroic in his recital of how he thinks it's best to handle the Penny Jamisons and Julie Fosters of the world, when he sings:

"You know I'll pay your cab fare home,
You can even use my best cologne
Just don't be here in the morning when I wake up"

duplicate post removed

What song are those lyrics from? Maggie Mae?

Too funny!

Dropping another quarter in the jukebox, Rod Stewart seems almost heroic in his recital of how he thinks it's best to handle the Penny Jamisons and Julie Fosters of the world, when he sings:

"You know I'll pay your cab fare home,
You can even use my best cologne
Just don't be here in the morning when I wake up"

and
seems he is a jerk and she is a jerk (see bold)

Wake up, Maggie, I think I got somethin' to say to you
It's late September and I really should be back at school
I know I keep you amused, but I feel I'm being used
Oh, Maggie, I couldn't have tried any more
You led me away from home
Just to save you from being alone
You stole my heart and that's what really hurts
The mornin' sun when it's in your face really shows your age
But that don't worry me none, in my eyes, you're everything
I laughed at all of your jokes, my love, you didn't need to coax
Oh, Maggie, I couldn't have tried any more
You led me away from home
Just to save you from being alone
You stole my soul, and that's a pain I can do without
All I needed was a friend to lend a guiding hand
But you turned into a lover, and mother, what a lover, you wore me out
All you did was wreck my bed, and in the morning, kick me in the head
Oh, Maggie, I couldn't have tried any more
You led me away from home
'Cause you didn't wanna be alone
You stole my heart, I couldn't leave you if I tried
I suppose I could collect my books and get on back to school
Or steal my daddy's cue and make a living out of playin' pool
Or find myself a rock and roll band that needs a helpin' hand
Oh, Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face
You made a first-class fool out of me
But I'm as blind as a fool can be
You stole my heart, but I love you anyway
Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face
I'll get on back home one of these days
Ooh, ooh, ooh

What song are those lyrics from? Maggie Mae?

Too funny!

https://genius.com/Rod-stewart-stay-with-me-live-lyrics
"In the morning Don't say you love me
Cause I'll only kick you out of the door"...

The timing doesn't quite work, but in an alternate universe, I wonder how June might react if she overheard the lyrics to "Stay with me" coming from a 16 year old Wally's phonograph?

Maggie Mae, wow, that goes way back!

And if June heard Wally playing Stay with Me (time-traveling forward about 10 years), it'd be, "WARD! MY BABY!!"

I swear to God, when I watch some LITB eps, the girls in it make my blood boil.
I think it’s outrageous how theyexpect Wally to spend extravagant amounts of money on them. Cases in point, the ep where Wally’s date wants him to buy her an orchid corsage for $7.50 (about $65 today) or to take them to an ultra-expensive restaurant, like The White Fox on MeTV today where the “special” is $6.25 (about $55 today). It really doesn’t say a lot about their values or how they were brought up. Your thoughts, or if you have them, more examples.

Some kids were just born to adorn the back of a milk carton? :yippee: