How do you compare Saved by the Bell with the Facts of Life. Both originally set in a school setting. Saved by the Bell started a year after the Facts of Life.

I get to see Saved by the Bell on MeTV. Too me, the show is corny compared to the Facts of Life and the acting is not as good. But Saved by the Bell shows that you can do a half hour comedy show that focused on more than 4 students.

How do you compare Saved by the Bell with the Facts of Life. Both originally set in a school setting. Saved by the Bell started a year after the Facts of Life.

I get to see Saved by the Bell on MeTV. Too me, the show is corny compared to the Facts of Life and the acting is not as good.

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows. Remember when Slater's pet lizard died, and he was devastated?

I enjoyed SBTB when I was a kid, but even then, I knew it was kind of a low-budget show. It aired on Saturday mornings, so it was meant for a teen and pre-teen audience. That meant it didn't necessarily have to be intelligent.

For most of the series' run, they had no school cafeteria set, so the kids had to eat on The Max set. Similarly, for several years the school had no gym set, so pep rallies were held at... The Max. Later, they added a gym set, but it was tiny.

To be fair, there were some attempts to tell a larger story. The Pacific Palisades episodes, where they shot some scenes on location on the beach, felt far less claustrophobic.

Like FOL, SBTB started off (as Good Morning Miss Bliss) with a larger cast (5 students plus four faculty/staff), but after the first season, the show was revamped, and there was a Cast Purge. In the case of SBTB, they even changed the location, the theme song, and the name of the show (but later repackaged the GMMB episodes as SBTB anyway).


But Saved by the Bell shows that you can do a half hour comedy show that focused on more than 4 students.

There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four. Another thing that was done better was the teacher continuity. A number of teachers made recurring appearances. That... didn't really happen on FOL after the first season. The teachers were just one-offs.

So how many cast members/characters were carried over from "Good Morning, Miss Bliss" to "Saved by the Bell'?

So how many cast members/characters were carried over from "Good Morning, Miss Bliss" to "Saved by the Bell'?

Just four: only Mr. Belding, Lisa, Zack, and Screech survived the Cast Purge. Gone were Miss Bliss, Mikey, Nikki, Miss Paladrino, and Milo the janitor. And they added Jessie, Kelly, and (briefly) Max the Magician.

Just four: only Mr. Belding, Lisa, Zack, and Screech survived the Cast Purge. Gone were Miss Bliss, Mikey, Nikki, Miss Paladrino, and Milo the janitor. And they added Jessie, Kelly, and (briefly) Max the Magician.

Milo wasn't a janitor, was he? I thought that he was either a teacher or a guidance counselor.

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows. Remember when Slater's pet lizard died, and he was devastated?

I enjoyed SBTB when I was a kid, but even then, I knew it was kind of a low-budget show. It aired on Saturday mornings, so it was meant for a teen and pre-teen audience. That meant it didn't necessarily have to be intelligent.

For most of the series' run, they had no school cafeteria set, so the kids had to eat on The Max set. Similarly, for several years the school had no gym set, so pep rallies were held at... The Max. Later, they added a gym set, but it was tiny.

To be fair, there were some attempts to tell a larger story. The Pacific Palisades episodes, where they shot some scenes on location on the beach, felt far less claustrophobic.

Like FOL, SBTB started off (as Good Morning Miss Bliss) with a larger cast (5 students plus four faculty/staff), but after the first season, the show was revamped, and there was a Cast Purge. In the case of SBTB, they even changed the location, the theme song, and the name of the show (but later repackaged the GMMB episodes as SBTB anyway).



There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four. Another thing that was done better was the teacher continuity. A number of teachers made recurring appearances. That... didn't really happen on FOL after the first season. The teachers were just one-offs.



You know, you make a very interesting point Retro: it just occurred to me, they could have kept only 2 of the 'Lost girls' on FOL if they thought they were too many (or at least one + JO)!
Just imagine if they had at least kept maybe SUE ANN or MOLLY (as she was promised by the producer, before they discovered JO on 'Little darlings'): the show would have had another dynamic with either 3 older girls such as BLAIR, JO and SUE ANN; or with 3 younger girls such as MOLLY, NAT and TOOTIE!
MRS G would have more work with 6 troublesome girls, and there would have been more stories!
For instance, MOLLY would have gang up with JO against BLAIR about women's right, and both would have been a foil to her.
Or, SUE ANN would have been shocked about the new Bronx barbarian girl, and ganged up with BLAIR against her: of course JO would have punch their lights out by calling them Barbie dolls!

What do you think?

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Milo wasn't a janitor, was he? I thought that he was either a teacher or a guidance counselor.

Been a while since I've seen one of the Miss Bliss-era episodes, but at least one (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092363/reviews) IMDB review confirms Milo was a janitor. I remember him complaining about a clean-up request and being kinda zany.

You know, you make a very interesting point Retro: it just occurred to me, they could have kept only 2 of the 'Lost girls' on FOL if they thought they were too many (or at least one + JO)!
Just imagine if they had at least kept maybe SUE ANN or MOLLY (as she was promised by the producer, before they discovered JO on 'Little darlings'): the show would have had another dynamic with either 3 older girls such as BLAIR, JO and SUE ANN; or with 3 younger girls such as MOLLY, NAT and TOOTIE!
MRS G would have more work with 6 troublesome girls, and there would have been more stories!

I would have loved that.

The writers would have needed to work out the kinks in Molly's character, but it was a character with a lot of potential. And Sue Ann/Jo clashes could have been awesome!


For instance, MOLLY would have gang up with JO against BLAIR about women's right, and both would have been a foil to her.
Or, SUE ANN would have been shocked about the new Bronx barbarian girl, and ganged up with BLAIR against her: of course JO would have punch their lights out by calling them Barbie dolls!

What do you think?


It should have happened, and it's a shame we didn't get a genuine Sue Ann/Jo clash until Season 8.

I would have loved that.

The writers would have needed to work out the kinks in Molly's character, but it was a character with a lot of potential. And Sue Ann/Jo clashes could have been awesome!



It should have happened, and it's a shame we didn't get a genuine Sue Ann/Jo clash until Season 8.




I knew you'd agree: let's build a time machine and go back to 1980 to change things lol!

:birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday:

I knew you'd agree: let's build a time machine and go back to 1980 to change things lol!


Just hop in my DeLorean! We'll go right now! I'll set the Flux Capacitor to Summer 1980, and we'll save TV history!

Just hop in my DeLorean! We'll go right now! I'll set the Flux Capacitor to Summer 1980, and we'll save TV history!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Been a while since I've seen one of the Miss Bliss-era episodes, but at least one (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092363/reviews) IMDB review confirms Milo was a janitor. I remember him complaining about a clean-up request and being kinda zany.

He dressed really nice for a janitor.

He dressed really nice for a janitor.

Yeah, he was dressed in a dress shirt and tie in many episodes. You would think he'd wear more blue-collar clothes. Maybe a denim shirt, possibly with a stitched-on badge. That is what the janitors at my institution wear.

But I also remember one episode where he mentioned he was "head of maintenance". And I also remember him cleaning up (or complaining about) a spill at the school.

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows.

This. I don't know why these two shows are being compared with each other just because they had a school setting. SBTB was written for kids where FOL was written for an adult audience. I'm not into SBTB even though I watched that, the college years, and the new class (I actually preferred this over the original) as a teenager. It's not rewatchable because it's a joke show. The whole caffeine pill episode is so cringeworthy to watch as an adult. The episodes FOL did like Breaking Point, Growing Pains, or Fear Strikes Back to name a few still hold up today because it was written seriously. Their writing was to reach people who can relate to these issues. SBTB didn't do that. California Dreams did though. I remember their steroid episode and the smoking episode were very serious. The smoking episode had Jake's cousin or uncle dying of lung cancer. They did stories SBTB wishes they could have done.


There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four.

Having six students didn't help SBTB. Elizabeth and Tiffani left the show in season 4 causing them to add Leanna Creel to help fill the void. Fans still criticize that. If FOL have kept all seven girls, they would have jumped ship over the course of the show. Molly thinking she's better than everyone would have been the first to quit. I doubt Felice would have stuck around to have a romance with an off screen character. I think both Julie's would have stayed because they didn't have the arrogant attitude Molly Ringwald has. There's no telling if Mindy and Kim would have stuck around if they were getting fewer episodes to accommodate other cast members. Having a big cast means having to cut some performers scenes in episodes so everyone gets airtime. Look how little episodes and scenes Julie Anne had in season 1. Big casts are not always a good thing. And then fast forward to season 9 where they had the big cast again. Sherrie and MacKenzie had very few moments in the show. Still have no clue why Sherrie was brought in with how they wrote her as an outcast with the core 4. MacKenzie was gone for a lot of episodes in season 9 because they had to give the core 4 their episodes. Cloris had very few scenes, but was there for the audience to see because she's a big name in Hollywood. I prefer small cast shows because the characters are able to get a fair amount of airtime to develop for the audience to see.

This. I don't know why these two shows are being compared with each other just because they had a school setting.

I've got absolutely no problem with making a comparison between the shows: FOL comes out far ahead on most metrics. And I think it's only natural to make a comparison between two school shows, just as someone might make a comparison between two cop shows, or two lawyer shows, or The Addams Family vs The Munsters: it feels natural to do so.


SBTB was written for kids where FOL was written for an adult audience.

I feel like FOL was written for both adults and kids.

I'm not into SBTB even though I watched that, the college years, and the new class (I actually preferred this over the original) as a teenager.

I never watched The New Class, beyond giving it a try. It felt like... a cheap rip-off of SBTB, which is crazy. A cheap rip-off of a cheap show... :lol:


It's not rewatchable because it's a joke show. The whole caffeine pill episode is so cringeworthy to watch as an adult.

I feel like that wasn't even the worst one. The one where Screech's robot was the main plot... or maybe the one with Slater's dead lizard... were far worse.


The episodes FOL did like Breaking Point, Growing Pains, or Fear Strikes Back to name a few still hold up today because it was written seriously.

I couldn't agree more. These episodes saved lives and helped viewers through difficult real-life issues.


Their writing was to reach people who can relate to these issues. SBTB didn't do that. California Dreams did though. I remember their steroid episode and the smoking episode were very serious. The smoking episode had Jake's cousin or uncle dying of lung cancer. They did stories SBTB wishes they could have done.

It's so weird, because I think that was another Peter Engel production. I never watched it on a regular basis.


Having six students didn't help SBTB.

I feel like it did: the school didn't feel as claustrophobic as Eastland, where only four students did everything, from being class valedictorian to running the school paper, to being Harvest Queen, to running the graduation ceremony.


Elizabeth and Tiffani left the show in season 4 causing them to add Leanna Creel to help fill the void. Fans still criticize that. If FOL have kept all seven girls, they would have jumped ship over the course of the show. Molly thinking she's better than everyone would have been the first to quit.

Maybe. Molly definitely had an attitude, and I've never quite understood why, but maybe staying on would have smoothed some of those edges: working with other people who are more modest will do that to people, as even Mrs. Garrett recognized. Molly wasn't given that opportunity.

However, we are told that the cast was very close.


I doubt Felice would have stuck around to have a romance with an off screen character.

I don't see why not: she stuck around for three seasons as it was, even with barely any lines.

I think both Julie's would have stayed because they didn't have the arrogant attitude Molly Ringwald has.

The Julies definitely have had a more positive approach to things, at least in comparison to Molly. Julie Pie, in particular, has been incredibly open to reprising her role and answering fan questions. I don't think she's ever turned down an interview. And the support she gave Kim during DWTS was incredible.

(This isn't to slight Julie Anne, who I think must have been more shy, and maybe didn't have as close of a relationship to Kim or Lisa as Julie Pie did).


There's no telling if Mindy and Kim would have stuck around if they were getting fewer episodes to accommodate other cast members. Having a big cast means having to cut some performers scenes in episodes so everyone gets airtime. Look how little episodes and scenes Julie Anne had in season 1. Big casts are not always a good thing.

I wouldn't consider a cast of six or seven that big, and many modern sitcoms have casts of a similar size.


And then fast forward to season 9 where they had the big cast again. Sherrie and MacKenzie had very few moments in the show.

That's true; they were rarely the focus. In hindsight, they really could have incorporated them better. The two characters of Pippa and Andy instead stepped into scenes and back out much like "the DJ" on Roseanne: in, brief scene, out. Even though I like the character of Andy more, I feel like they gave Pippa a better reason to be there: she's attending Eastland (although the way they went about the introduction episode itself was crazy: she's not even supposed to be there, so they let her stay; she annoys them constantly, so they all agree she needs to stay with them. WTF?!)

Still have no clue why Sherrie was brought in with how they wrote her as an outcast with the core 4.

You are so very right, here. It's like they wrote the character of Pippa to be an outcast, which seems cruel. It feels like a miscue. We're supposed to like the Core Four, but they exclude Pippa in so many scenes. Makes. No. Sense.

MacKenzie was gone for a lot of episodes in season 9 because they had to give the core 4 their episodes. Cloris had very few scenes, but was there for the audience to see because she's a big name in Hollywood. I prefer small cast shows because the characters are able to get a fair amount of airtime to develop for the audience to see.

But I know you like Buffy, which had a huge cast (sometimes as many as eight characters in the opening credits, plus a dozen more semi-regulars per season, including a Big Bad, side characters, and minions). Even with the episodes being twice as long, that is a large cast.

Anyway, I always enjoy reading your perspectives. It definitely helps these forums to get multiple inputs.

I've got absolutely no problem with making a comparison between the shows: FOL comes out far ahead on most metrics. And I think it's only natural to make a comparison between two school shows, just as someone might make a comparison between two cop shows, or two lawyer shows, or The Addams Family vs The Munsters: it feels natural to do so.

I don't see the comparison because both shows are different though. If SBTB was a female cast show, I would get it. SBTB was it's own show for kids. FOL never had a character go, "time out!" Shows that I consider in comparison to FOL would be The Golden Girls, Designing Women, Desperate Housewives, or Sex & The City. Shows that copied FOL's format of a female cast show. The Golden Girls is a great example of how much they ripped off FOL. They even had the girls sell the house and go into business like FOL did. It's so funny that the writers of the FOL reunion had Blair buy a hotel because it's like they acknowledge the Golden Girls ripped them off so they did the same from their Golden Palace season :lol:


I feel like FOL was written for both adults and kids.

Yes, it definitely had a younger audience. With SBTB, they weren't going for an adult audience. They wanted their show to be just for the younger audience.

I never watched The New Class, beyond giving it a try. It felt like... a cheap rip-off of SBTB, which is crazy. A cheap rip-off of a cheap show... :lol:

:lol: I watched the whole 7 year run of that show. Reruns were paired up with USA High (another show I actually like better than SBTB) on the USA channel. I also watched it when it was new on Saturday mornings. It was TNBC and that was my favorite back in the 90's. But what I liked about the new class was that each season there were different characters to see. For a show that's based solely on the high school setting, it made sense and it worked. FOL was based on the core 4 and Mrs. Garrett. That's why the setting change from Eastland to the store years were successful. Fans back in the 80's didn't care where they were at as long as they were there. We learned with SBTB it doesn't work that way or the college years would have lasted longer.


I feel like that wasn't even the worst one. The one where Screech's robot was the main plot... or maybe the one with Slater's dead lizard... were far worse.

It's been over a decade since I last watched SBTB. I think the last time I watched an episode was when TBS Superstation was airing reruns. I don't remember these episodes. The one episode I really like from SBTB is their murder mystery episode. I like when shows do that because it's funny. 3rd Rock, The Jeffersons, The Golden Girls, and probably this show with the episode Seven Little Indians are all funny when they think there's a murder.


It's so weird, because I think that was another Peter Engel production. I never watched it on a regular basis.

It was. USA High was a Peter Engel production too. He ruled the teen shows in the 90's. I found episodes of USA High on YouTube. It's not a bad show and the cast does a good job with their acting.


I feel like it did: the school didn't feel as claustrophobic as Eastland, where only four students did everything, from being class valedictorian to running the school paper, to being Harvest Queen, to running the graduation ceremony.

The core 4 were meant to be role models so I can understand why the writers would make them the best at everything. It's been so long since I've seen the graduation episode of SBTB, but didn't Zack end up valedictorian at their graduation episode? SBTB made their characters popular so it's normal for a show to do that.


Maybe. Molly definitely had an attitude, and I've never quite understood why, but maybe staying on would have smoothed some of those edges: working with other people who are more modest will do that to people, as even Mrs. Garrett recognized. Molly wasn't given that opportunity.

However, we are told that the cast was very close.

I find it hard to believe Molly is close with any of the FOL cast. She is so stuck up. The other girls are definitely close.


I don't see why not: she stuck around for three seasons as it was, even with barely any lines.

She did that as a guest star though. If she was a main character and all they gave her were bit parts on the phone or talking only about this off screen boyfriend, I'm sure she'd get bored and want something else.

The Julies definitely have had a more positive approach to things, at least in comparison to Molly. Julie Pie, in particular, has been incredibly open to reprising her role and answering fan questions. I don't think she's ever turned down an interview. And the support she gave Kim during DWTS was incredible.

(This isn't to slight Julie Anne, who I think must have been more shy, and maybe didn't have as close of a relationship to Kim or Lisa as Julie Pie did).

For people who didn't last long in Hollywood, they definitely have the more mature response. Molly could learn a lot from the other lost girls.


I wouldn't consider a cast of six or seven that big, and many modern sitcoms have casts of a similar size.

Before I stopped watching Modern Family years ago, the kids hardly had any time on screen. Mainly Mitch and Cam's daughter. When you have a show that large, they do cut characters out to give other characters screen time. I read that when they had the death episode for Phil's father, his kids weren't in the episode. That's lousy writing IMO. You have these kids grandfather who they were close to in the early years die and you don't feature them? :confused: I'm glad FOL didn't get to that.


I feel like they gave Pippa a better reason to be there: she's attending Eastland (although the way they went about the introduction episode itself was crazy: she's not even supposed to be there, so they let her stay; she annoys them constantly, so they all agree she needs to stay with them. WTF?!)

This would have been a great full circle having the core 4 be Pippa's 'Mrs. Garret'. Instead, they all get annoyed with her and tell her she's too young for girl talk. Mrs. Garrett was never like that with the core 4. Mrs. Garrett talked about her ex gambling addict, drinking husband to the girls. She treated the girls as equal and the core 4 treated Pippa as a rodent. What a waste.

You are so very right, here. It's like they wrote the character of Pippa to be an outcast, which seems cruel. It feels like a miscue. We're supposed to like the Core Four, but they exclude Pippa in so many scenes. Makes. No. Sense.

I gotta say I didn't like the way the core 4 treated Pippa. It was so out of character.

But I know you like Buffy, which had a huge cast (sometimes as many as eight characters in the opening credits, plus a dozen more semi-regulars per season, including a Big Bad, side characters, and minions). Even with the episodes being twice as long, that is a large cast.

Anyway, I always enjoy reading your perspectives. It definitely helps these forums to get multiple inputs.

Buffy is so different than FOL :lol: Buffy had writers, more importantly, a creator who knew how the show was going to go over time. I love FOL, but Buffy is way better in terms of writing. Yes, they had a lot of characters but many of them were paired up so one's character episode would involve their partner. Whenever Angel had an episode on him, Buffy or the others would be involved. Oz's episodes always had Willow be the center as well. Same with the Tara episode when she thought she was a demon. So while they may have had a large cast, they coupled the characters up so it was like one character they were writing about. It worked though. I didn't mind that because we were still seeing characters get equal time in the episodes and learn about them.

Julie Pie is even in some Facts of Life Facebook groups. She won't comment on any behinds the scenes stuff, but will like people's posts and praise people who says she should have been on the 2001 reunion show in place of AWOL Jo/Nancy McKeon or should be on Dancing with the Stars.

As for Molly, I doubt that she would have stayed the entire series. Executive Producer Jerry Meyer said he really thought she really had talent and was one of the ones who advocated that she stay. Someone would have offered her some role in some movie. In Season 3, Molly was traveling to New York and Greece while the other 7 girls who still stuck in Eastland.

I think Julie Anne's personality is very similar to Cindy's. In that child actor's documentary, it was like we were seeing Sandy. Julie Anne is still Facebook friends with most, if not all the 7 Eastland girls with the exception of Le Mol. Who doesn't seem to have any connections with any one from the Facts of Life today. Le Mol does keep in touch with many of her costars from the John Hughes movies, but if she does with anyone from the Facts of Life, it's private communication.

I don't see the comparison because both shows are different though. If SBTB was a female cast show, I would get it. SBTB was it's own show for kids. FOL never had a character go, "time out!"

But they did have Natalie break the fourth wall and speak directly to the camera, in "Cupid's Revenge (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0575326/trivia)". Similar concept.


Shows that I consider in comparison to FOL would be The Golden Girls, Designing Women, Desperate Housewives, or Sex & The City. Shows that copied FOL's format of a female cast show. The Golden Girls is a great example of how much they ripped off FOL. They even had the girls sell the house and go into business like FOL did.

I definitely see the comparisons between GG, DW, and FOL, but I also see valid comparisons between school shows: FOL, Head of the Class, Saved By the Bell, Welcome Back Kotter, Degrassi, etc.

It's so funny that the writers of the FOL reunion had Blair buy a hotel because it's like they acknowledge the Golden Girls ripped them off so they did the same from their Golden Palace season :lol:

Haha! That's a great point! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


Yes, it definitely had a younger audience. With SBTB, they weren't going for an adult audience. They wanted their show to be just for the younger audience.

As an adult, your brain would quickly rot from watching SBTB. It was just meant for teens and pre-teens.


what I liked about the new class was that each season there were different characters to see. For a show that's based solely on the high school setting, it made sense and it worked. FOL was based on the core 4 and Mrs. Garrett. That's why the setting change from Eastland to the store years were successful. Fans back in the 80's didn't care where they were at as long as they were there.

Sort of. There was a drop in audience; a loss of (on average) almost 5 million viewers between Seasons 2 and 9.


It's been over a decade since I last watched SBTB. I think the last time I watched an episode was when TBS Superstation was airing reruns. I don't remember these episodes. The one episode I really like from SBTB is their murder mystery episode. I like when shows do that because it's funny. 3rd Rock, The Jeffersons, The Golden Girls, and probably this show with the episode Seven Little Indians are all funny when they think there's a murder.

The murder mystery episodes are silly, but they can be very funny. I can see why SBTB would be in its element, there.


The core 4 were meant to be role models so I can understand why the writers would make them the best at everything. It's been so long since I've seen the graduation episode of SBTB, but didn't Zack end up valedictorian at their graduation episode?

I thought it was Jessie, but I don't remember, now.

SBTB made their characters popular so it's normal for a show to do that.

I don't think Tootie should have been in charge of Blair and Jo's graduation, and I don't think Natalie should have been in charge of the school newspaper, after getting suspended from her editorial position multiple times. Those were not realistic things that happen at schools. It was the direct lack of other regular students and faculty which led to these kinds of problems. And even though I love the show, I can still see that that was a problem.

Additionally, by removing other staff members, the writers make the mistake of allowing Mrs. Garrett to confide in her girls when no professional would have: the "eating dog food" comment, for example.

Still, these are very minor complaints when compared to SBTB. (I remember when oil was discovered at Bayside, the students imagined they'd become rich! :lol: )


I find it hard to believe Molly is close with any of the FOL cast. She is so stuck up. The other girls are definitely close.

Molly seems like she's made headway, in recent years. She even wished Charlotte a happy birthday, via video, a few years ago. She's making progress.


She did that as a guest star though. If she was a main character and all they gave her were bit parts on the phone or talking only about this off screen boyfriend, I'm sure she'd get bored and want something else.

Maybe. But I think Felice would have simply tried to wrangle a bigger part. And it's possible she might have managed it. By Season 4, it feels to me like they were running out of story ideas, or at least shoehorning characters into roles that didn't fit them. Jo becoming a nun, for example. Sue Ann was the conservative, square girl who believed in family values.


For people who didn't last long in Hollywood, they definitely have the more mature response. Molly could learn a lot from the other lost girls.

Well, George Clooney had a very similar response: "Screw them. They fired me." Once you win Academy Awards and such, you don't ever have to look back. And Molly was nominated for a Golden Globe in 1983.


Before I stopped watching Modern Family years ago, the kids hardly had any time on screen. Mainly Mitch and Cam's daughter. When you have a show that large, they do cut characters out to give other characters screen time. I read that when they had the death episode for Phil's father, his kids weren't in the episode. That's lousy writing IMO. You have these kids grandfather who they were close to in the early years die and you don't feature them? :confused: I'm glad FOL didn't get to that.

I do wish the girls' parents had been more in their lives.


This would have been a great full circle having the core 4 be Pippa's 'Mrs. Garret'. Instead, they all get annoyed with her and tell her she's too young for girl talk. Mrs. Garrett was never like that with the core 4. Mrs. Garrett talked about her ex gambling addict, drinking husband to the girls. She treated the girls as equal and the core 4 treated Pippa as a rodent. What a waste.

Exactly.


Buffy is so different than FOL :lol: Buffy had writers, more importantly, a creator who knew how the show was going to go over time. I love FOL, but Buffy is way better in terms of writing. Yes, they had a lot of characters but many of them were paired up so one's character episode would involve their partner. Whenever Angel had an episode on him, Buffy or the others would be involved. Oz's episodes always had Willow be the center as well. Same with the Tara episode when she thought she was a demon. So while they may have had a large cast, they coupled the characters up so it was like one character they were writing about. It worked though. I didn't mind that because we were still seeing characters get equal time in the episodes and learn about them.

Well, Buffy definitely set the standard for characterization, writing, visual effects, cinematography, and incredible acting. The direction, lighting, and literary references were also amazing.

Even though Buffy and The Facts of Life are two very different series, one being an hour-long drama, and one being a half-hour sitcom, I see many comparisons: both shows empowered women and girls, and often talked about the relationships between women. They both starred primarily women, with men in a supporting role. In both series, women are the problem-solvers. Often, men are the antagonists. In both series, women are shown to raise the next generation, while struggling to make ends meet. And most of all, what is shown in both series is the compassion for others, which is absent in many other TV series.

I do see some links between Norman Lear shows and Joss Whedon shows. Some have linked (https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/norman-lear) Joss Whedon's meticulous storytelling to precursors like Norman Lear. Norman Lear practically originated the Very Special Episode which much later became important in Buffy ("Earshot", "Gingerbread", and devastatingly in "The Body"). With Lear, we also got character story arcs, dynamic characters who change over time, and an emphasis on characters who stumble upon moral dilemmas with no clear 'right' or 'wrong' answer. Buffy perfected these storytelling methods, but Norman Lear and his shows paved the way decades earlier.

As always, I loved talking with you about this. Your insights and time are both deeply appreciated.

Julie Pie is even in some Facts of Life Facebook groups. She won't comment on any behinds the scenes stuff, but will like people's posts and praise people who says she should have been on the 2001 reunion show in place of AWOL Jo/Nancy McKeon or should be on Dancing with the Stars.

I so appreciate Julie Pie because we have learned so much from her over the years. She's done so many interviews and is so willing to spend time answering questions, supporting the other 'girls', even stepping in with reporters to make a beautiful statement about Philip McKeon when Nancy so clearly couldn't manage it. She was at Charlotte's funeral forty years after working with her.


As for Molly, I doubt that she would have stayed the entire series. Executive Producer Jerry Meyer said he really thought she really had talent and was one of the ones who advocated that she stay. Someone would have offered her some role in some movie. In Season 3, Molly was traveling to New York and Greece while the other 7 girls who still stuck in Eastland.

It's my understanding that the girls were in long-term contracts which prevented them from doing films, unless expressly approved by the producers of FOL. This ticked Mindy off because she wanted to do a film, but was told no.

Some of the girls did do TV movies. Ironically with troubled actresses. Lisa had one with Erin Moran. Nancy M. did one with Dana Plato. Mindy later did a movie called. "The Boy Who Could Fly" later in the series. Not sure if that was a TV movie or a motion picture.

Some of the girls did do TV movies. Ironically with troubled actresses. Lisa had one with Erin Moran. Nancy M. did one with Dana Plato. Mindy later did a movie called. "The Boy Who Could Fly" later in the series. Not sure if that was a TV movie or a motion picture.

I wasn't talking about TV movies (they all did those) but about motion pictures in theaters.

Here's Mindy talking about how the FOL producers wouldn't let her do film, due to her TV contract:

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I think Julie Anne's personality is very similar to Cindy's. In that child actor's documentary, it was like we were seeing Sandy. Julie Anne is still Facebook friends with most, if not all the 7 Eastland girls with the exception of Le Mol. Who doesn't seem to have any connections with any one from the Facts of Life today. Le Mol does keep in touch with many of her costars from the John Hughes movies, but if she does with anyone from the Facts of Life, it's private communication.

She does seem very quiet, but also friendly and athletic. She is also clearly an awesome mom.

This comparison is like comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a girls' school show to a public school show on a different coast and a show that was meant for kids versus a show meant for adults.

From the episodes of SBTB that I did see, it's laughable how they handled "serious" topics, like the caffeine episode. It's completely unwatchable. Facts of Life episodes gently handled comedy and drama, without being overly cheesy or tacky. The acting was just way better on FOL.

That's just all I have to say.

But they did have Natalie break the fourth wall and speak directly to the camera, in "Cupid's Revenge (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0575326/trivia)". Similar concept.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that.


I definitely see the comparisons between GG, DW, and FOL, but I also see valid comparisons between school shows: FOL, Head of the Class, Saved By the Bell, Welcome Back Kotter, Degrassi, etc.

DW is also like FOL. Women working in a home setting. They hired Anthony in DW while FOL hired Andy. Odd how similar their names are. DW's core 4 definitely resemble FOL's core 4. FOL really started a trend in the 80's and 90's.


Sort of. There was a drop in audience; a loss of (on average) almost 5 million viewers between Seasons 2 and 9.

I would have guessed ratings dropped after season 3 because FOL was NBC's highest rated show that TV season. Odd there was a drop from season 2 to season 3.


I thought it was Jessie, but I don't remember, now.

So I thought SBTB's graduation episode was with Tori. I remember a song they did for graduation and Tori was there for that. I thought that was their graduation episode. Since Elizabeth and Tiffani came back for the graduation episode, they should have brought Leanna in the show so the characters could all know each other.


I don't think Tootie should have been in charge of Blair and Jo's graduation, and I don't think Natalie should have been in charge of the school newspaper, after getting suspended from her editorial position multiple times. Those were not realistic things that happen at schools. It was the direct lack of other regular students and faculty which led to these kinds of problems. And even though I love the show, I can still see that that was a problem.

I never understood how Natalie kept being editor too after getting removed multiple times. I'm going to guess during the episode 'Read No Evil' that Mr. Parker gave her the position back off screen after seeing all the parent support. It would make sense IMO. Although after what she did in 'The Source', she never should have been editor again.


Additionally, by removing other staff members, the writers make the mistake of allowing Mrs. Garrett to confide in her girls when no professional would have: the "eating dog food" comment, for example.

Mrs. Garrett did this from the start though. She discussed her ex-husband with Blair and Sue Ann. They didn't focus Mrs. Garrett on having adult friends. I think they were trying to show that people of age gaps can be close friends as well. Although, it's very unprofessional for school staff to discuss personal issues with students. I don't know what it was like in high schools back in the early 80's, but nowadays you get reprimanded if you talk too personal with a student.


Still, these are very minor complaints when compared to SBTB. (I remember when oil was discovered at Bayside, the students imagined they'd become rich! :lol: )

Oil at Bayside? That sounds so cheesy and stupid :lol:


Molly seems like she's made headway, in recent years. She even wished Charlotte a happy birthday, via video, a few years ago. She's making progress.

That is good. I didn't know Molly did that.


Maybe. But I think Felice would have simply tried to wrangle a bigger part. And it's possible she might have managed it. By Season 4, it feels to me like they were running out of story ideas, or at least shoehorning characters into roles that didn't fit them. Jo becoming a nun, for example. Sue Ann was the conservative, square girl who believed in family values.

Yeah but Jo was in a catholic school, or some type of religious school before Eastland. She always talked about nuns in her old school. In Teacher's Pet she mentions how mean a nun was in past school. She does have some connection to wanting to be a nun. I think that episode had more to do with Jo trying to figure out who she was and what she wanted to do with her life since she was close to graduating. She was never big on dating so not having sex wouldn't bother her :lol:


Well, George Clooney had a very similar response: "Screw them. They fired me." Once you win Academy Awards and such, you don't ever have to look back. And Molly was nominated for a Golden Globe in 1983.

George came around because he participated in an interview special for Charlotte a couple of years ago. He brought up what Charlotte taught him in show business.


I do wish the girls' parents had been more in their lives.

I didn't care for Natalie's mother. I like Tootie's mother. It's a shame we only got two episodes with her. Natalie's grandmother was hilarious. I would have liked for her to come back.


Well, Buffy definitely set the standard for characterization, writing, visual effects, cinematography, and incredible acting. The direction, lighting, and literary references were also amazing.

Buffy started a whole new trend just like FOL did. They both broke the mold for different types of shows you see on TV. Even the term "big bad" started on Buffy and is now used on many other TV shows.


In both series, women are shown to raise the next generation, while struggling to make ends meet.


Buffy definitely had this. She had to work at a fast food place to support her and her sister. She also had to deal with child protective services wanting to take her sister away. Buffy did so many realistic stories in the later years. The only character on FOL who appeared to struggle financially was Natalie. She took how many jobs to support herself? It made sense too since she didn't want to do college and wanted to travel. I think once Jo started working for Mrs. Garrett, her financial problems weren't as bad like the Eastland years.


I do see some links between Norman Lear shows and Joss Whedon shows. Some have linked (https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/norman-lear) Joss Whedon's meticulous storytelling to precursors like Norman Lear. Norman Lear practically originated the Very Special Episode which much later became important in Buffy ("Earshot", "Gingerbread", and devastatingly in "The Body"). With Lear, we also got character story arcs, dynamic characters who change over time, and an emphasis on characters who stumble upon moral dilemmas with no clear 'right' or 'wrong' answer. Buffy perfected these storytelling methods, but Norman Lear and his shows paved the way decades earlier.

Gingerbread wasn't that important of an episode. It was Hansel and Gretal. Joyce's acronym, Mother's Opposed to the Occult aka MOO, was hilarious. Lie To Me was considered a special episode. When it aired, they had numbers for teen suicide hotlines at the end. I remember they had a slow motion clip of Buffy and Ford walking in front of the school at night with the number across the screen. I would consider Help a special episode because Buffy had to learn she can't save everyone who is about to die.

I do see the similarities between Buffy and Norman Lear's shows. They kept things serious instead of getting too goofy for the audience to enjoy. I need to get Good Times. I think I would enjoy that as much as I'm enjoying Maude and All in The Family.


The acting was just way better on FOL.

I agree. Although, Tiffani became a great actress over the years after SBTB. Between her TV movies in the 90's and her run on 90210, I like her acting. I really miss the TV movies we used to get in the 90's. They made some good ones.

DW is also like FOL. Women working in a home setting. They hired Anthony in DW while FOL hired Andy. Odd how similar their names are. DW's core 4 definitely resemble FOL's core 4. FOL really started a trend in the 80's and 90's.

I definitely see the similarities between FOL and DW. As you say, FOL really started a trend with four women working and/or living together, with guys as back-up.

In fact, I really wonder if we would have had shows like Living Single and Friends without the precedent of shows like FOL showing friends living together.


I would have guessed ratings dropped after season 3 because FOL was NBC's highest rated show that TV season. Odd there was a drop from season 2 to season 3.

Yes, it is really weird.


So I thought SBTB's graduation episode was with Tori. I remember a song they did for graduation and Tori was there for that. I thought that was their graduation episode. Since Elizabeth and Tiffani came back for the graduation episode, they should have brought Leanna in the show so the characters could all know each other.

I just looked it up, and here is the Graduation episode summary on Wikipedia:

"With graduation day approaching, Zack discovers he needs to gain one more credit to graduate. This results in Zack having to be in dance class and perform in the ballet to get his last credit. Meanwhile, Jessie is heartbroken when she learns another student is named valedictorian instead of her. However, she soon realizes how much valedictorian really means to Screech when Lisa wisely tells her that he puts others before him."

So it appears neither Jessie nor Zack were valedictorian, and it was instead Screech. It's been a few years since I've seen SBTB (I last regularly watched, like you, during the TBS rerun era, but I also saw a few episodes of GMMB and SBTB on YouTube/Daily Motion, and I've also seen quite a few episodes of "Zack Morris is Trash" on YouTube).

As you say, Leanna Creel as Tori didn't overlap with Kelly/Jessie, which created weird continuity issues. The weirdest thing is that I have seen promotional photos of the cast that season, showing Tori, Jessie, and Kelly, so they must have brought Leanna back in for photos. Why not bring her in for a few episodes, as well? They probably couldn't afford it. Not that they paid anyone much, anyway.


I never understood how Natalie kept being editor too after getting removed multiple times. I'm going to guess during the episode 'Read No Evil' that Mr. Parker gave her the position back off screen after seeing all the parent support. It would make sense IMO. Although after what she did in 'The Source', she never should have been editor again.

Yes, that is what I mean. Who in their right minds would give Natalie that position back, after "The Source" and "Front Page"?


Mrs. Garrett did this from the start though. She discussed her ex-husband with Blair and Sue Ann.

I can maybe, maybe see talking about your ex-husband to your students, but NOT your financial difficulties. That would just be a no-no. And when Mrs. Garrett says she's going to be eating dog food because of how little Eastland pays her, that was a major violation, and even feels a bit like manipulation.


They didn't focus Mrs. Garrett on having adult friends. I think they were trying to show that people of age gaps can be close friends as well. Although, it's very unprofessional for school staff to discuss personal issues with students. I don't know what it was like in high schools back in the early 80's, but nowadays you get reprimanded if you talk too personal with a student.

Yes, it's the same at my university as well. There's just certain things you don't say to a student.


Oil at Bayside? That sounds so cheesy and stupid :lol:

The cheesiest, stupidest part of that episode is that, for that episode, Zach gets a pet duck, who is then harmed by the oil on campus. Once the episode is over, we never hear about Becky the Duck, ever again.

But I have to say that even though the scripts were cheesy, at least SBTB had a likeable, distinctive cast. If you want an example of a cheesy show where every element is off, check out the 1980s series Small Wonder. It makes Saved By the Bell look like Shakespeare. :lol:


Yeah but Jo was in a catholic school, or some type of religious school before Eastland. She always talked about nuns in her old school. In Teacher's Pet she mentions how mean a nun was in past school. She does have some connection to wanting to be a nun.

I wouldn't call cracking jokes about nuns anywhere close to wanting to BE a nun. Those two episodes are just messed up.


George came around because he participated in an interview special for Charlotte a couple of years ago. He brought up what Charlotte taught him in show business.

Yep! That's the same interview where Molly appears.


I didn't care for Natalie's mother. I like Tootie's mother. It's a shame we only got two episodes with her. Natalie's grandmother was hilarious. I would have liked for her to come back.

Like you, I didn't care for Natalie's mother. She was barely in her daughter's life, and when she was, she was so strict with her. I hated that. I would have loved to have Natalie's grandmother back.


Buffy started a whole new trend just like FOL did. They both broke the mold for different types of shows you see on TV. Even the term "big bad" started on Buffy and is now used on many other TV shows.

Yes it is. So many shows borrowed elements from Buffy, starting with Charmed and going all the way to the present day. It is impossible to cover the full extent of how Buffy influenced television.


Buffy definitely had this. She had to work at a fast food place to support her and her sister. She also had to deal with child protective services wanting to take her sister away. Buffy did so many realistic stories in the later years. The only character on FOL who appeared to struggle financially was Natalie. She took how many jobs to support herself? It made sense too since she didn't want to do college and wanted to travel. I think once Jo started working for Mrs. Garrett, her financial problems weren't as bad like the Eastland years.

I distinctly remember Natalie, Jo, and Mrs. Garrett all having episodes where they struggled financially. Jo in the early years, Natalie later on, when she was trying to "find herself". And of course Mrs. Garrett's Howard Johnson experience.

Heck, even Beverly Ann was living in a Winnebago.


Gingerbread wasn't that important of an episode. It was Hansel and Gretal.

But it was a Very Special Episode, in that one of the major themes was book banning. The central concept was that parents and authority figures believe they know what's best for society, and certain materials should be censored or removed "for the sake of the children". This was "Read No Evil" with a supernatural element.


Joyce's acronym, Mother's Opposed to the Occult aka MOO, was hilarious.

Yes, it was. I loved Joyce, and hated to see her going down that censorship path.


Lie To Me was considered a special episode. When it aired, they had numbers for teen suicide hotlines at the end. I remember they had a slow motion clip of Buffy and Ford walking in front of the school at night with the number across the screen. I would consider Help a special episode because Buffy had to learn she can't save everyone who is about to die.

Ah, yes! "Help" is definitely a Very Special Episode.


I do see the similarities between Buffy and Norman Lear's shows. They kept things serious instead of getting too goofy for the audience to enjoy. I need to get Good Times. I think I would enjoy that as much as I'm enjoying Maude and All in The Family.

It's been years since I saw Good Times, but I have seen All in the Family episodes recently.

This comparison is like comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a girls' school show to a public school show on a different coast and a show that was meant for kids versus a show meant for adults.

I don't see it as comparing apples and oranges, but comparing Granny Smith apples to Red Delicious apples. There are some similarities, and some differences. You can definitely make comparisons.


From the episodes of SBTB that I did see, it's laughable how they handled "serious" topics, like the caffeine episode. It's completely unwatchable. Facts of Life episodes gently handled comedy and drama, without being overly cheesy or tacky. The acting was just way better on FOL.

All true points. But there are episodes of FOL which don't hold up under closer inspection, as well. For example, "Write or Wrong" doesn't hold up when you look at it closely, and it's not consistent with the continuity established later that same season.

I'm a bit like you guys! I didn't care much for NATALIE's mom either, but if i have to pick a favourite it'll have to be MONICA and ROSE: both were sweet and warm, and they also had the greatest chemistry with MRS G!

I'm a bit like you guys! I didn't care much for NATALIE's mom either, but if i have to pick a favourite it'll have to be MONICA and ROSE: both were sweet and warm, and they also had the greatest chemistry with MRS G!

I adore Rose. She's working two jobs to put Jo through school, and she just keeps plugging away.

I respect Monica as a character, but I don't like her. When she's not slapping her daughter, she's lying to her, or badmouthing her father to her.

She's an incredibly complex character, but I'm glad she never raised me.

I adore Rose. She's working two jobs to put Jo through school, and she just keeps plugging away.

I respect Monica as a character, but I don't like her. When she's not slapping her daughter, she's lying to her, or badmouthing her father to her.

She's an incredibly complex character, but I'm glad she never raised me.



I give you credit for that: MONICA WARNER was definitely never a mother figure to BLAIR (that ended up being MRS G's job), but she was kind of funny and a bit like a big kid!
In fact, BLAIR took often the role as mother towards MONICA on several occasions: in the episode 'A friend in deed', she tries to convince her stubborn mother to get checked up by a doctor!
And in the episode 'A new life', BLAIR takes the role as the older one, giving MONICA tips on how to take care of the unborn baby to come.... etc and etc lol!
So yes, of all the girls: MONICA was the less motherly one i have to say!

:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio:trio

I adore Rose. She's working two jobs to put Jo through school, and she just keeps plugging away.

I respect Monica as a character, but I don't like her. When she's not slapping her daughter, she's lying to her, or badmouthing her father to her.

She's an incredibly complex character, but I'm glad she never raised me.

There are plenty of mothers like that. Somewhere out there someone had a mother or knew a mother like Monica Warner and decided to design the character after that woman.