I think LITB got better as the show aged, wasn't a big fan of the earlier ones.

My Views on shows as they aged.

McHale's Navy- Worse
Dennis the Menace- Worse
Barney Miller- Better
The Munsters- Worse
Happy Days- Worse
Good Times- Worse
All in the Family- Worse
The Odd Couple- Better
Andy Griffith- Worse
Hogan's Heroes- Better (except season 6)
Gomer Pyle USMC- Better

Why do you think some shows aged better?

I think most TV shows only got worse as they kept on year after year. Enough already. The Waltons should have pulled the plug after John Boy departed. Most were fresh and new but when characters left it was time to retire like Barney Fife.

Most comedy shows ran out of ideas but some of the episodes of LITB in season 5 and 6 were very watchable. Dennis the Menace, All in the Family and Andy Griffith got embarrassing. They just didn’t know when to quit.

There were other opportunities for the Waltons to bow out. John Boy made the most sense, but Ellen Corby's problems, Will Geer's death, Michael Learned's departure could have been other times. The show became a distant relative of itself--nine seasons was way too long.

With Beaver I think they became sloppy with script continuity, particularly in the fourth season, a little less so in the fifth. They spruced up the show in the sixth season, but still left Beaver a little too naive--however, I think the sixth season was a pretty nice recovery.

With Dennis the Menace they matured him nicely in the fourth season. He was more mature and carried out tasks with ease--tasks he would have screwed up in the old Mr. Wilson years.
A good example is the Uncle Ned episode, where John Wilson gives him several instructions, all of which he follows with ease. Beaver would have found a way to screw them up!

I think most TV shows only got worse as they kept on year after year. Enough already. The Waltons should have pulled the plug after John Boy departed. Most were fresh and new but when characters left it was time to retire like Barney Fife.

Most comedy shows ran out of ideas but some of the episodes of LITB in season 5 and 6 were very watchable. Dennis the Menace, All in the Family and Andy Griffith got embarrassing. They just didn’t know when to quit.

Agree. The sweet spot seems to be seasons 2-4. The bookend seasons built us up and then let us out.

Andy Griffith got embarrassing. They just didn’t know when to quit.

For my personal tastes, I tend to agree with you. But the ratings tell a different story.
The Andy Griffith Show, year by year:

1960-61 #4 show overall 27.8 market share
1961-62 #7 show overall 27.0 share
1962-63 #6 show overall 29.7 share
1963-64 #5 show overall 29.4 share
1964-65 #4 show overall 28.3 share
1965-66 #6 show overall 26.9 share
1966-67 #3 show overall 27.4 share
1967-68 #1 show overall 27.6 share

Mayberry RFD

1968-69 #4 show overall 25.4 share
1969-70 #4 show overall 24.4 share
1970-71 #15 show overall 22.3 share

So, at what point would you pull the plug? The entire series except for the final season was in the top 10. And even that final season outperformed it's replacement, the Doris Day show.

Kinda hard to tell the stockholders "I quit" when you are in the top 5.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960%E2%80%9361_United_States_network_television_schedule

I've made this ratings point before, mostly about MeTV's westerns. I don't like them, never watch them, but the ratings must tell a different story.

Re Mayberry RFD, plus the Hillbillies, Green Acres, et al--CBS did do the so-called rural purge and cancelled them all. RFD may have fallen to #15 for the third season, but that's definitely not cancellation territory.

I've made this ratings point before, mostly about MeTV's westerns. I don't like them, never watch them, but the ratings must tell a different story.

Re Mayberry RFD, plus the Hillbillies, Green Acres, et al--CBS did do the so-called rural purge and cancelled them all. RFD may have fallen to #15 for the third season, but that's definitely not cancellation territory.

I'm not certain what formula the network ratings guru's use, but they must have some basis of evaluation deemed reliable that they are willing to 'bet the farm' on.

I've heard that when the Smothers Bros Comedy hour pulled Bonanza out of the #1 slot, it forced a re-evaluation of programming dogmas taken for granted up to that point. Thoughts that a young, hip, and socially diverse generation was about to rise to significance...and that was the catalyst behind the purge.

Critics of that outlook are fond to point out that the Smothers Bros (program) killed themselves by being too avant garde for conservative sensitivities, and was replaced by Hee-Haw...which was about as rural as you could get...
But I still think the spectacle that a show like Smothers bros could knock a titan such as Bonanza off their perch.....was seen as a bellwether of sorts.

I also remember being glued to the TV for every episode of RFD when it was in first runs. The show was an institution in our house.

Nowadays I can barely stomach the color episodes of Andy Griffith, and the thought of watching RFD is completely out of the question.

I also remember as a very young child, being completely infatuated with Petticoat Junction. The first season was extra thick on the engineer and conductor...and that is what I remember being attracted to.

After that first season, or so...my mom really disappointed me telling me that show was no longer available.......which I accepted...I had no reason (or basis) to challenge her.
Only years later did I discover the deception, along with her motive. My Petticoat Junction got the bums rush in our house so that she could watch Payton Place.

I mention that trade-off, because it too might have represented a migration away from the rural themed shows to more contemporary tastes, that got noticed.

God how I hated that show

I also remember being glued to the TV for every episode of RFD when it was in first runs. The show was an institution in our house.

Nowadays I can barely stomach the color episodes of Andy Griffith, and the thought of watching RFD is completely out of the question.

I also remember as a very young child, being completely infatuated with Petticoat Junction. The first season was extra thick on the engineer and conductor...and that is what I remember being attracted to.

After that first season, or so...my mom really disappointed me telling me that show was no longer available.......which I accepted...I had no reason (or basis) to challenge her.
Only years later did I discover the deception, along with her motive. My Petticoat Junction got the bums rush in our house so that she could watch Payton Place.

I mention that trade-off, because it too might have represented a migration away from the rural themed shows to more contemporary tastes, that got noticed.

God how I hated that show

My parents put a Portacolor TV in their room, to avoid problems like this. My mom watched Peyton Place on that.

My parents put a Portacolor TV in their room, to avoid problems like this. My mom watched Peyton Place on that.

I suspect my parents may have been a tad more authoritarian than yours. They felt completely entitled to dictate the viewing fare. My only alternative was "bed time", so I was walking a narrow line.

LOL, we had one family in our neighborhood who were fanatic "spare the rod and spoil the child" christians.
They refused to allow their children to watch "Bewitched", over fire and brimstone reasons.

So, guess who came visiting at our house the nights Bewitched was broadcast?

I suspect my parents may have been a tad more authoritarian than yours.

LOL. My Adad was so bad he spliced the TV cord with a female/male combo and if he did not want anybody watching tv, he took that part of the cord with him.

What an ass. I have not seen him in 20 years.

I'll buck the trend and say that Beaver himself got WORSE as the show got along since his naivete and gullibility seemed far more genuine and sincere in the beginning but, by his teens, it definitely seemed a bit contrived. Also, it seemed obvious that Mr. Mathers appeared quite uncomfortable having his awkward teens broadcast after having been a cute kid.

Wally, Ward and June actually improved as the show went along (and they even gave Eddie and Lumpy more depth) but IMO it would have been better for the title character's sake to have ended the show about three seasons earlier.

^^^
Yep, they could have written awkward Beaver a lot better than they did. I still say seeing the older guys go to college and less focus on Bev would have worked.

I suspect my parents may have been a tad more authoritarian than yours. They felt completely entitled to dictate the viewing fare. My only alternative was "bed time", so I was walking a narrow line.

I was forced to suffer thru Lawrence Welk (yes, I know some liked that show, I just didn't happen to be one of them), so there was some authoritarian in them, I think.

I know we all watched Bewitched, and no one viewed it as a threat to Christianity.

LOL. My Adad was so bad he spliced the TV cord with a female/male combo and if he did not want anybody watching tv, he took that part of the cord with him.

What an ass. I have not seen him in 20 years.

Too funny. Taking the cord with him. You would think you were watching porn. I knew a girl growing up whose father would check the top of the TV for warmth. If it was warm he would start crushing skulls.

Hey GentlemanJim I learned a new word, bellwether. I never heard that word so looked it up.

I was forced to suffer thru Lawrence Welk (yes, I know some liked that show, I just didn't happen to be one of them), so there was some authoritarian in them, I think.

I know we all watched Bewitched, and no one viewed it as a threat to Christianity.

I discovered that I could get away with being a little more demanding earlier in the evening, for instance the Monkees, or Batman.....but much after 9 PM I had to be completely on-board with the parents viewing whims, or slumber the consequences.

Tom Jones, Andy Williams, Payton Place, and Carol Burnett being shows I recall almost preferring bed time to.

Not to mention that horrid one-two punch of the Dating game and the Newlywed game....back to back. How my mother could sit through a solid hour of that, I have no idea.

Hey GentlemanJim I learned a new word, bellwether. I never heard that word so looked it up.

Glad to be of service!;)

Here is another nifty word "apophenia"...it's a tendency to recognize patterns where there really isn't one.

Particularly apropos in these days of supercharged political and social upheaval where so many folks insist they have been offended by the actions of others.

I propose that now that I have brought it to your attention, you will find it as the most plausible explanation for many news stories making headlines.

Too funny. Taking the cord with him. You would think you were watching porn.

No, we were only allowed 6 or 8 hours of TV a week and he made sure nobody went over their alloted quota.

I have no idea why people act this way. If people do not want to be around you, it's because you are a jerk.

LOL. My Adad was so bad he spliced the TV cord with a female/male combo and if he did not want anybody watching tv, he took that part of the cord with him.

What an ass. I have not seen him in 20 years.

You Win the sad family award

Glad yo made it out of that household intact !

I remember Andy Williams he introduced the Osmond Brothers that begat Donny and Marie which I could not watch. The Osmonds all had the same smile. I remember Andy held the microphone a strange way and every time he was on my father would call him a Bobby Kennedy lover. My father hated the Kennedys but he hated most people.

The Osmonds all had the same smile..







I remember wondering where (if?) Eddie Haskell fit into the group.

You gotta admit, Eddie Haskell with a "Osmond brothers" smile would be even more contemptable. :D

I think LITB got better as the show aged, wasn't a big fan of the earlier ones.

My Views on shows as they aged.

McHale's Navy- Worse
Dennis the Menace- Worse
Barney Miller- Better
The Munsters- Worse
Happy Days- Worse
Good Times- Worse
All in the Family- Worse
The Odd Couple- Better
Andy Griffith- Worse
Hogan's Heroes- Better (except season 6)
Gomer Pyle USMC- Better


I agree with you about LITB, and watch it almost every day on MeTV.

But disagree about Happy Days, All In The Family & Gomer Pyle.

Yeah, Gomer better? That show would have been nothing w/o Frank Sutton.

And TAGS--I think it improved as time went on, in the B/W years. Then it slid in the color years, with a lot of mundane scripts. Bell-shaped curve, I guess.

Yeah, Gomer better? That show would have been nothing w/o Frank Sutton.

.

It is remarkable to me when I see Frank Sutton guest on other TV shows. I never really payed much attention to actor's guest appearances in TV shows until the past 10 years or so....consequently Gomer Pyle was about the only show I identified with Frank Sutton.

So now, whenever I see him in some other role, it's like "OMG, that is Sgt Carter!!"

That role was tailor made for Sutton, just like (pardon the reference) Charlie Harper on Two and a Half Men was tailor made for Charlie Sheen.

I don't think I've seen Sutton in any other roles.

I don't think I've seen Sutton in any other roles.

The Fugitive, The Twilight zone, Love American Style....had a couple very memorable roles on Gunsmoke as a "scary-stupid" back woods type.

When I recognized Frank Sutton in a small part in Marty with Borgnine I knew he was a talented actor. Yup without Sutton Gomer Pyle would have been mediocre. Nabors and Sutton were great friends.

He didn't have many roles after GP--I imagine Carter typecast him. Didn't know he and Nabors were friends.

I'm having a hard time finding ANY shows that I believe got better with age.....seriously.

MAYBE Hogans Heroes.....Perhaps the Beverly Hillbillies because they became more formulaic and "found their groove" so to speak.......and maybe Andy Griffith after the first season, after he lost his "hick" silliness that was such a big part of season one.
But those are all very subjective.

I notice that most of my "favorite episodes" of Gunsmoke come from the color era, but I think that has mostly to do with better writing. Newly being an exception to that....I suffer through his contributions.

Aside from that, most of the changes made to long-lived shows that I regularly watched, seem mostly like they were plugging leaks.
I didn't notice it at the time, but now in retrospect I can barely stand to watch Married with Children episodes made after about 1991-92

That hick silliness and exaggerated accent make the first season of TAGS unwatchable for me. That alone would indicated an improvement in later episodes. So later you get the fun girls, Miss Lydia, the Darlings, Ernest T.--all the memorable episodes.

I'm not much of a Hogan fan but have watched them all over time, and I agree it improved. In the earlier episodes Hogan's gang's charge was to get downed fliers back to safety (via a conveniently located sub), and later episodes widened their scope to sabotage. Also Shultz's portrayal was changed from semi-accomplice to unwilling dupe. The later characters Gen. Burkhalter and Major Hockstetter (Who IS zis man?) added much to the comedy.

One thing that was implausible was the unexplained disappearance of Kinchloe and the addition of Baker in the sixth season.

I tend to agree with TankerYanker in terms of (the desirability of) shifting the focus of LITB to the college exploits of the older guys. Once Beaver reached the "your're old enough to know better" age, the charm of innocence was pretty much gone.

Of course, I think that is about where TY and my ideas split. As I recall...TY has Wally on track for a Fulbright scholarship, or similar.....while my script would have Wally meeting Bernardine Dohrn at a pep rally, and place Eddie on a bus with Ken Kesey on their way to meet Timothy Leary.....
I guess we'd have to each take our best shot and let the Nielsen's decide? :goodnews:

LOL Ken Kesey!!! Does Lumpy meet Jack Kerouac at State?

Tune In
Turn On
And Drop Out.

LOL Ken Kesey!!! Does Lumpy meet Jack Kerouac at State?

Tune In
Turn On
And Drop Out.

Glad to see ya'll are ol' hippies here !

I wonder if the Furthur Bus passed through Mayberry ? (merry pranksters)

LOL Eddie was definitely the one trying to sell the dope in their group +-.

Joe Friday would have shown up and said "Just The Facts Mame !"