View Full Version : A Death in Oslo
mphs95 10-19-2020, 06:58 PM I do there is a strong possibility that this lady was either in espionage or something clandestine, which eventually got her killed. Things that stuck out for me:
1. The Plaza Hotel was the top hotel in Oslo (attracting international foreign relations, celebrities, etc) with top notch security, yet this woman was able to check in w/o any ID, passport, or a credit card. It wasn't discovered for three days, and when it was finally discovered, the person who went up happened to hear a gunshot.
2. While just because her being born in East Germany doesn't make her Communist, she came of age during the Cold War. The Berlin Wall had come down only 6 years before.
3. Per the intelligence guy, the numbers on the gun were filed away professionally.
4. She disappeared for 20 hours in Oslo before returning to her room.
5. She gave her info as this small town in Belgium, but no one had ever heard of her or recognized her.
What kept coming back to me was the fact that she was alone in her room was according to the bellhop, who stated he heard the gunshot, then hid and watched for someone to come out. He waited for a short time then finally went down to get security. WHY THE HELL DIDN'T HE GET HELP ASAP! Yeah, she was dead, but he didn't know that.
I think this was an inside job within the hotel. How else would she be able to get a room w/o any ID and mode of payment for 3 days? How did that hotel not pick up any images of her anywhere? Only security could get in past both locks. So the murder (yes, I'm calling it murder because it makes the most sense) had to be done by either a professional who could penetrate two locks, or had help by someone at the hotel.
I did like the reporter, who always called her Jennifer and has worked for 25 years to identify her. He cares about her having a name and a family to mourn her.
Man this is a real weird one. The way the gun was found in her hand was odd. Where the hell was she for those 20 hours?
drew790 10-20-2020, 12:23 AM I'm struggling to finish this one. There's a reason unidentified deaths only got 2 minute segments on the original show. Padding this out for 45 minutes is a mistake.
I'm struggling to finish this one. There's a reason unidentified deaths only got 2 minute segments on the original show. Padding this out for 45 minutes is a mistake.
I thought it was good. They go a bit into the forensics, that she may have worked in intelligence and been executed, etc. I also thought the ghastly composite drawings ended with the old UM. I was wrong. :( At least her postmortem picture wasn’t as bad as the steamer trunk corpse! :eek:
TheCars1986 10-20-2020, 08:43 AM A 45 minute episode dedicated to try and make a suicide look more mysterious than it is, instead of trying to find out who this woman is it's just mind boggling to me.
ETA: There is little doubt in my mind that Jennifer Fergate is Camilla Steinaa, a woman who disappeared off the face of the earth in 1987. She was 23 years old at the time of her disappearance, and had started to indicate to her friends that she wanted to live a life "off the grid" so to speak. She is a dead ringer (https://www.usanews.net/politics/Disappeared-in-33-years-New-information-on-the-Camilla-the-mystery-h14892.html) to Jennifer Fergate, IMO. And her age would align with the estimate given by the medical examiner.
sdb4884 10-20-2020, 11:49 AM Really good segment, I thought Lars was a great narrator of sorts for the segment.
bigted12 10-20-2020, 01:16 PM you've missed out maybe 90% of the case, how she was found, the strange room service, noises people heard coming from her room, theres many many many things
TheCars1986 10-20-2020, 03:02 PM Here (https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/xRjoWp/mystery-at-the-oslo-plaza) is a lengthy article about this case. I may have missed it, but did UM mention that both key cards given to her were found inside the double-locked room? I know they didn't touch on gunshot residue, which the original investigators did:
We considered whether someone else could have done it. There are cases where the person shot has had the weapon placed into their own hand. We took samples from the skin near the weapon to look for gunshot residue, but it’s not a given that you find it. With the way the victim held the weapon in this case, most of the residue would have been on the other side, where the hand would be with a normal grip.
They also do not mention that the trigger, with her thumb still on it, was depressed.
The right thumb of the corpse lay against the trigger, which was thus held in the posterior/fired position. When the weapon was released from the corpse’s hand, a ‘click’ could be heard as the trigger moved towards the forward position.
I have no idea how someone could have staged this.
There was no signs or evidence of a struggle. The security guard who heard the gunshot heard complete silence in the immediate aftermath. How would a killer/s know when the guard (or anyone else for that matter who heard the shot and may have came out into the hallway) would be gone to where they can make an exit undetected? I find it hard to believe that an assassin or some sort of intelligence agent was sent on a mission to drink sodas and eat potato chips and lounge around in a room from 11:03 a.m. Friday until the fatal shot at 7:50 p.m. the next day?
A 45 minute episode dedicated to try and make a suicide look more mysterious than it is, instead of trying to find out who this woman is it's just mind boggling to me.
ETA: There is little doubt in my mind that Jennifer Fergate is Camilla Steinaa, a woman who disappeared off the face of the earth in 1987. She was 23 years old at the time of her disappearance, and had started to indicate to her friends that she wanted to live a life "off the grid" so to speak. She is a dead ringer (https://www.usanews.net/politics/Disappeared-in-33-years-New-information-on-the-Camilla-the-mystery-h14892.html) to Jennifer Fergate, IMO. And her age would align with the estimate given by the medical examiner.
They did try to find out who she was, going to the little village in Belgium she gave as her address. That turned out to be bogus. No one remembered her from the village.
They drew a composite drawing. They exhumed her body to collect DNA. They mentioned that she had no change of clothing for her lower body. I would assume that means no extra skirts, dresses, pants, shorts. So that is weird all by itself.
Anyway, it's not like they didn't try to find her identity.
When you say the medical examiner's age estimate, which one? The first said she was in her early 30's. The second around 24.
rusty spike 10-21-2020, 12:42 AM Very strange case. I can't make out the lack of bottom garments. That's extremely bizarre.
I think there are people who know everything about this woman. Someone paid for hotel room and routine protocols aren't routinely ignored unless an authority issues orders. Most likely an intelligence carrier.
TheCars1986 10-21-2020, 05:48 AM They did try to find out who she was, going to the little village in Belgium she gave as her address. That turned out to be bogus. No one remembered her from the village.
They spent about 5 minutes going over how they tried to figure out who this woman was. The last 15 minutes or so were just ridiculous speculation from an intelligence expert as to how he believed she was either a spy, or in intelligence. It was kind of insulting.
When you say the medical examiner's age estimate, which one? The first said she was in her early 30's. The second around 24.
The first one put her age as high as 40.
zack007attack 10-21-2020, 10:00 PM First off, I actually like how the new episodes are focusing on one case each because they provide more in-depth pertinent details necessary to explore the case to the fullest extent possible.
I strongly believe this was a homicide, based on how the weapon was found in addition to the serial number being removed the way it was.
I think "Jennifer" was either:
1) Involved in or connected to clandestine operations somehow, either as an operative or informant and might have either had her cover blown or 'knew too much'.
2) A victim of human trafficking and tried to run away but was found by her captors and silenced to prevent her from reporting to the authorities.
Even if this did turn out to be a suicide (which there is plenty of reason to doubt), the evidence at the scene still indicates some kind of secretive connection, considering the fact that the handgun serial numbers were grinded down deep enough that would inhibit them from being revealed by chemical milling or magnetic particle inspection.
As for her connections to the village in Belgium, here are some possibilities:
1) Maybe the location held some kind of sentimental value for her, in case she spent a significant part of her childhood there.
2) It was a place she visited often but didn't necessarily live there.
3) She may have met a close friend or significant other there.
4) The Swedish professor indicated she may have been born in East Germany in the early 70s when the Cold War was still in full swing. Maybe she got inadvertently separated from her family as a child and was somehow able to determine that the Belgian village is where her family fled to, but they never got the chance to know what she looked like as a grownup which could be why she wasn't recognized by any locals.
Appliance 10-22-2020, 12:45 AM That Ola Kaldager guy is one of the most terrifying men, the way he casually describes his work as: "It was collecting information, having people say things they don't... want to say".
They spent about 5 minutes going over how they tried to figure out who this woman was. The last 15 minutes or so were just ridiculous speculation from an intelligence expert as to how he believed she was either a spy, or in intelligence. It was kind of insulting.
The first one put her age as high as 40.
I’m no expert but I don’t even think she looked that old. The use of postmortem pictures in this case were not as gruesome as in some other shows I’ve seen. The woman had a sad look on her face I think. But even then, I wouldn’t say 40. She looked better than that composite drawing. Yeeeeeesh!
Guitar 10-22-2020, 06:27 AM I like that they glossed over the fact that the gunshot was heard almost immediately after the security guy knocked on the door.
Would an assassin be like, "yeah, let's make EXTRA certain that they know that someone fired a gun here."
...or would the woman think, "the jig is up. Checkout time"?
The older guy who knew about espionage secrets seemed very credible to me, though. I detected no b.s. He believed that it was a state hit, so to me it's truly a mystery.
TheCars1986 10-22-2020, 06:58 AM I strongly believe this was a homicide, based on how the weapon was found in addition to the serial number being removed the way it was.
The trigger was found depressed and when they removed the gun from her hand, the trigger clicked back into the "ready" position. I have no idea how someone would have been able to stage this.
Gottacallphelp 10-22-2020, 07:27 PM Really good segment, I thought Lars was a great narrator of sorts for the segment.
I agree--I loved it! Would love to see more like this in the new series.
alistaircranium 10-22-2020, 07:42 PM Definitely a murder. It shouldn’t even be up for debate.
Guitar 10-24-2020, 12:24 PM I find it hard to believe that an assassin or some sort of intelligence agent was sent on a mission to drink sodas and eat potato chips and lounge around in a room from 11:03 a.m. Friday until the fatal shot at 7:50 p.m. the next day?
just noticed this sentence.. lmao
Exactly my thought. Also, the more I think about it, the more I wish someone would have asked the espionage expert, "why the hell would an assassin not use a silencer and WANT the security worker to hear the gunshot just moments after he knocked on the door?" Wouldn't it ... ummm, hinder his escape plans, even if he planned to escape out of a window?
Gottacallphelp 10-24-2020, 05:47 PM Definitely a murder. It shouldn’t even be up for debate.
I think it is much more likely a case of someone who wanted to disappear and take her own life... Why on earth would a murderer shoot her after hearing a knock at the door? Sure, one can come up with scenarios to make homicide fit, but Occam's razor says it's suicide.
zack007attack 10-24-2020, 06:31 PM just noticed this sentence.. lmao
Exactly my thought. Also, the more I think about it, the more I wish someone would have asked the espionage expert, "why the hell would an assassin not use a silencer and WANT the security worker to hear the gunshot just moments after he knocked on the door?" Wouldn't it ... ummm, hinder his escape plans, even if he planned to escape out of a window?
I wouldn't say the assassin specifically intended for the security guard to hear the gunshot; it was more likely by pure chance that the guard just happened to hear it at the same time the shot was fired. Furthermore, it's very possible the assailant could have had some kind of secret escape route, maybe through a window or an air vent. Or he could have had some kind of surveillance or accomplice letting them know when the coast was clear for them to walk through the hallway and eventually out of the hotel (unless of course, they might have had a room at the hotel themselves and tried to blend in until they could make their departure look more inconspicuous). The assailant probably would have avoided using a silencer as part of their plan to stage the scene to appear like a suicide.
alistaircranium 10-24-2020, 09:59 PM I think it is much more likely a case of someone who wanted to disappear and take her own life... Why on earth would a murderer shoot her after hearing a knock at the door? Sure, one can come up with scenarios to make homicide fit, but Occam's razor says it's suicide.
Again, I disagree.
RaidenKhan 10-25-2020, 02:06 AM A 45 minute episode dedicated to try and make a suicide look more mysterious than it is, instead of trying to find out who this woman is it's just mind boggling to me.
I’m with you, TheCars1986. Any notion of this not being a suicide is completely bonkers to me. You have to jump through so many hoops to make this a homicide, and exactly zero for suicide. Reading the responses in this thread...man some of you watch too many movies. :lol:
This most reminded me of Gail DeLano.
Gottacallphelp 10-25-2020, 06:00 PM I’m with you, TheCars1986. Any notion of this not being a suicide is completely bonkers to me. You have to jump through so many hoops to make this a homicide, and exactly zero for suicide. Reading the responses in this thread...man some of you watch too many movies. :lol:
This most reminded me of Gail DeLano.
Exactly. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the episode, but the old Gail Delano segment was the first thing that came to mind.
wackerstack 10-27-2020, 11:16 PM Major DeLano vibes. I LOVE your username, Gottacallphelp. :winkgrin
SheRaaa 10-27-2020, 11:45 PM Normally I think the "suicide or murder?" cases are almost always suicide, but this one....is very strange. I would not be able to say beyond a reasonable doubt that this person committed suicide.
On the one hand, you have a person who is displaying obvious depressed traits (wandering around for hours at a time, eating old food, spending time alone in a fancy hotel before ending it all, etc.)
However, there are just so many suspicious things in this case, starting with being allowed to rent a very expensive hotel room with no ID. Obviously this is anecdotal, but in the early 2000s I tried to rent a very ghetto hotel room with no ID and they were NOT having it. You had to show something -- ID card, credit card, etc. I would imagine measures were much stricter at hotels, especially high-end ones in cosmopolitan cities.
Still, if it was just that, you could easily say "oh well the hotel staff just overlooked it." But then you have the weird lack of clothing, the labels being ripped-off the clothing that WAS there, the weird lack of makeup despite makeup being on the woman's face, the fake address, the weird hand position on the gun, the 20-hour wandering, the serial number being deeply etched off the gun, etc.
However, you also have the gunshot happening right after the knock on the door. That leans towards suicide, as does the locked door.
Maybe, it was a suicide but the woman was involved in shady dealings?
Very strange case...
Todd Mueller 10-28-2020, 12:21 PM Maybe, it was a suicide but the woman was involved in shady dealings?
Very strange case...
I totally agree. It was a really weird case, and even if it was suicide, it was still an interesting case to watch. It did remind me a lot of the Gail Delano segment, which was also a really good classic UM case (even though it had a horribly sad and tragic ending).
Like you said, I think it was likely a suicide by the "why" of this is the real mystery here. This woman went through great lengths to conceal her identity (much like Gail Delano), but the big question is how in the hell did she ever get this room in the first place without ID or a credit card? That's why I'm inclined to believe that she was up to something not on the level, and somehow that lead to her killing herself.
The fact that she listed the address in an obscure place is really intriguing. The address wasn't real, but it was close enough that she almost had to have knowledge of that town, yet no one seems to know her, even though the town isn't that big. The lack of ID, the extra name on the registration, the lack of labels on her clothes, and the serial number removed from the gun are all really, really weird, especially when combined together.
It could have been a lot of things: espionage, high-end prostitution, drugs... who knows. So while I do think she killed herself (which is backed up by much of the evidence), why this all happened is still a huge mystery and certainly worth looking into. At a minimum, someone is likely looking for a daughter/sister/friend that is missing and those people deserve to know what happened.
drew790 10-28-2020, 08:52 PM I think it is much more likely a case of someone who wanted to disappear and take her own life... Why on earth would a murderer shoot her after hearing a knock at the door? Sure, one can come up with scenarios to make homicide fit, but Occam's razor says it's suicide.
Because he wants to be trapped in the room people know has been shot up, clearly. :D
bell83 10-30-2020, 11:51 AM I loved the classification of the pistol as "almost an assault weapon." It was an old Browning or FN in 9mm. 9mm is basically the go-to pistol caliber for the entire world, at this point (accurate in the 1990s, as well, especially in Europe). I don't understand the reasoning behind the investigator they talked to making it out to be some rare, incredibly powerful weapon (other than trying to add additional mystery to the case). They were everywhere during and after WW2 in Europe, considering it was an available issued pistol to British Commonwealth forces (UK, Canada, etc) AND the Belgians made them under license, and well over a million were made. The Belgians (FN) were making them up until three years ago. The Germans even used them during the war. It's not hard to see someone having hidden it after the war, selling it or trading it to someone else who ended up getting rid of the serial number and putting it into the black market weapons trade, where she very easily could've bought it from someone. That's just one of a dozen ways she could've ended up with the pistol that took her life. The pistol used in the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II was the exact same type of pistol, as a factoid.
It's not like she ended up with a 50 caliber Desert Eagle and offed herself with that. That would be an uncommon and high powered pistol. Not a plain jane 9mm pistol that was a standard sidearm of a multitude of military and police agencies around the world.
This is one case where I do agree with the ruling of suicide. The "weird grip" doesn't mean much to me. If one is going to shoot themselves in the forehead, there aren't a lot of options of gripping the weapon that are "normal."
The removal of all identifying tags from her clothing? That doesn't HAVE to be "so she can't be traced." It's possible they were from some kind of outlet stores, or thrift stores, or something similar. I remember the Levi Outlet Store my mother worked at in the 90s had something similar where some tags from the original product (these being, as I recall, essentially "factory seconds") were defaced or removed. I don't remember the specifics, as it's been around twenty-five years. But something like that could be the reason there are no identifying tags. Or she could have had some kind of compulsion where she felt the need to remove tags like that. I have weird compulsions that are similar (the first one that comes to mind is the need to remove the rectangular anti theft things stuck in DVD and CD cases...even if I'm borrowing it from someone, I end up removing it), so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
If they WERE removed to make tracing more difficult, it's not like we haven't seen that in other cases of suicide. Sometimes, you just don't want your family or loved ones knowing what happened to you. It's a lot nicer to think "they'll think I'm out there, somewhere, maybe living my life happily" than it is to think "they'll know I blew my brains out in a hotel and now I'm in the ground rotting."
The biggest arrow pointing to suicide is that the door was locked from the inside. This isn't like the Isidor Fink story...there was at least a transom window there. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that (unless the hotel staff decided to murder this woman) anyone mysteriously vanished from inside the room.
There are A LOT of "suicides" that I believe are misclassified. With the evidence that I do know from this, this isn't one of them. If something comes up that points elsewhere, I'm more than willing to change my mind on that.
alistaircranium 10-30-2020, 01:33 PM Wow, people are still debating this? It was murder. The discussion should be about who murdered her and why.
Gottacallphelp 10-30-2020, 08:48 PM Major DeLano vibes. I LOVE your username, Gottacallphelp. :winkgrin
Thanks, Wackerstacker! :wave:
Latka Gravas 11-02-2020, 12:39 AM The "Death in Oslo" is definitely one of the creepiest segments in this second UM volume.
-I agree the mysterious woman who died could have been some kind of "intelligence" operative, and was killed because of this. Or, she could have killed herself.
However, if the whole reason she checked into the hotel was to eventually commit suicide (and this was all planned), why pick a high-end hotel like that?! Why not a dump?!
If she was murdered & was an intelligence operative, the gap of time (20 hours, IIRC) when she wasn't in the room may have been because she was out doing a "job".
-I do find it odd that she was able to check into the hotel without any real form of ID, a credit card, etc. Even low-end hotels/motels require you to show something like this prior to checking in.
-It's sad that no one has claimed knowing her in the 25 years since her death back in 1995. There are several possibilities as to why this happened - or rather, didn't happen:
1) She didn't have any close family/friends when she died;
2) She did have family, but was estranged from them;
3) The family had reasons for not coming forward;
4) The family were unaware that she died in the hotel room; i.e., they missed all of the newspaper articles & other info., etc. about the death.
Hopefully she will eventually be identified. However, unfortunately - given the amount of time that has passed since she died - I doubt this.
bell83 11-02-2020, 05:07 PM However, if the whole reason she checked into the hotel was to eventually commit suicide (and this was all planned), why pick a high-end hotel like that?! Why not a dump?!
If you're going to be ending your life, money no longer matters (if you even bother paying). Might as well experience some luxury for your last few days. It makes more sense to check into a high end place to do it than a dump (from my experience). If you've reached a point where you've decided to end your life, then it might be an attempt to at least experience a little of what you might have been missing in your actual life.
drew790 11-02-2020, 06:22 PM OK but for real, if this was a murder where is the gunman? Did they teleport out of the room with the dude standing outside the door?
Latka Gravas 11-02-2020, 08:49 PM If you're going to be ending your life, money no longer matters (if you even bother paying). Might as well experience some luxury for your last few days. It makes more sense to check into a high end place to do it than a dump (from my experience). If you've reached a point where you've decided to end your life, then it might be an attempt to at least experience a little of what you might have been missing in your actual life.
You're right - makes sense.
TheCars1986 11-03-2020, 08:01 AM OK but for real, if this was a murder where is the gunman? Did they teleport out of the room with the dude standing outside the door?
There are so many illogical leaps one has to go through to make this a murder. She used a fake name so clearly she's a double agent on a secret mission. She had no ID on her so clearly she was being followed. Because this was a covert assassination, some secret intelligence official would have been able to teleport out of the room.
It's more logical to believe that this woman was depressed and probably from an impoverished background (which might be why no one has come forward to identify her), and wanted to experience "luxury" in a country she had never been to before. She was planning on doing it and carried out her plan when the security guard knocked on the door. That's probably why she didn't leave her room for several hours leading up to it. She knew that the hotel was on to her about payment, and was carried it out when she heard the knock.
alistaircranium 11-03-2020, 09:18 AM OK but for real, if this was a murder where is the gunman? Did they teleport out of the room with the dude standing outside the door?
I’m not sure if you watched the episode or not, but the security guard hid for a few minutes and then left to get help. The gunman left once the security guard left.
bell83 11-03-2020, 03:16 PM I’m not sure if you watched the episode or not, but the security guard hid for a few minutes and then left to get help. The gunman left once the security guard left.
Except they explicitly stated the room was locked from the inside. How did he leave the room, then lock the door from inside the room?
alistaircranium 11-03-2020, 09:35 PM Except they explicitly stated the room was locked from the inside. How did he leave the room, then lock the door from inside the room?
He could have exited the window, air duct, or even a secret passage. The hotel seemed to be a hotbed for espionage and subterfuge, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the hotel had many hidden entrances and exits.
Or perhaps he hid under the bed. I doubt they would’ve checked.
TheCars1986 11-04-2020, 08:57 AM He could have exited the window, air duct, or even a secret passage. The hotel seemed to be a hotbed for espionage and subterfuge, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the hotel had many hidden entrances and exits.
Or perhaps he hid under the bed. I doubt they would’ve checked.
This has to be sarcasm. It has to be.
bell83 11-04-2020, 12:05 PM This has to be sarcasm. It has to be.
Nah. Just too many viewings of the movie Clue...since literally every house, hotel, and apartment building is chock full of secret passages.
alistaircranium 11-04-2020, 01:05 PM Nah. Just too many viewings of the movie Clue...since literally every house, hotel, and apartment building is chock full of secret passages.
I didn’t say every, I just said this one. It’s a high end luxury hotel with a plethora of VIP guests. It ain’t your local Best Western.
bell83 11-04-2020, 04:53 PM I didn’t say every, I just said this one. It’s a high end luxury hotel with a plethora of VIP guests. It ain’t your local Best Western.
Yes, and I'm certain that luxury hotels have secret exits from their rooms and stealthy little John McClanes creeping through their air ducts.
I'm with you on a lot of other "suicides" that were probably not actually suicides. This is not one of them. There is much more pointing to suicide than to murder in this case.
alistaircranium 11-04-2020, 07:02 PM Yes, and I'm certain that luxury hotels have secret exits from their rooms and stealthy little John McClanes creeping through their air ducts.
I'm with you on a lot of other "suicides" that were probably not actually suicides. This is not one of them. There is much more pointing to suicide than to murder in this case.
This isn’t a debate. This was murder. You asked a question and I responded thoughtfully, thinking that would be the end of it, but then you responded again in an attempt to dismiss my comment. I am not interested in discussing this case with skeptics. I am just looking to have a good conversation with people like me who know it’s murder. Please refrain from replying to my posts and I will show you the same courtesy. Otherwise, I will have to add you to my ignore list.
alistaircranium 11-04-2020, 07:05 PM Let me be clear: this isn’t an unexplained death case. This is a whodunnit. I am interested in discussing who murdered her and why. If you don’t believe it was murder, please don’t ask me questions or reply to my comments. Please keep that kind of conversation to people who agree with you.
bell83 11-04-2020, 07:56 PM This has to be sarcasm. It has to be.
I guess there you have it :rolleyes:
SitcomsHeydayfan 11-10-2020, 05:06 AM This is from a new episode in Volume 2 of the new UM. It's really mysterious that NO family has reported her missing & NOBODY has an idea who she is!!
Description below. What do you guys think?
https://unidentified.wikia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Fairgate
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/10/10063608/unsolved-mysteries-who-is-jennifer-post-series-updates
SitcomsHeydayfan 11-13-2020, 03:47 AM Man this is a real weird one. The way the gun was found in her hand was odd. Where the hell was she for those 20 hours?
You think maybe she was a high class prostitute?
SitcomsHeydayfan 11-13-2020, 03:48 AM Very strange case. I can't make out the lack of bottom garments. That's extremely bizarre.
I think there are people who know everything about this woman. Someone paid for hotel room and routine protocols aren't routinely ignored unless an authority issues orders. Most likely an intelligence carrier.
High class prostitute?
SitcomsHeydayfan 11-13-2020, 03:52 AM I’m with you, TheCars1986. Any notion of this not being a suicide is completely bonkers to me. You have to jump through so many hoops to make this a homicide, and exactly zero for suicide. Reading the responses in this thread...man some of you watch too many movies. :lol:
This most reminded me of Gail DeLano.
Where is the blood spatter?
And experts said the recoil from the gun wouldn't result with her still holding the gun like that!
bell83 11-13-2020, 10:55 AM Where is the blood spatter?
And experts said the recoil from the gun wouldn't result with her still holding the gun like that!
Their "experts" also said that the pistol was some super high powered, rare pistol, even though it was a just standard 9mm pistol that was widely available and made for over 60 years.
I'd believe her hand would hold on to it after death before I believed that someone magically disappeared from inside the room after killing her and locking the door from the inside.
As was also mentioned earlier in this thread, when they removed the pistol from her hand, the trigger reset. This means that it was discharged and not released until the police took it from her hand. Mighty difficult to fake that.
As for the blood spatter, photos on google show plenty of blood. She was lying down, with the blankets pushed up to prop her upper body on, and her legs hanging off the bed. The blankets and sheets are soaked with blood, and there are police arrows pointing at blood spatter on the walls. The pistol is also coated in blood, from a photo showing her hand still gripping it with the trigger still pulled back.
LooksLikeCRicci 11-16-2020, 02:24 PM Was anyone else amused that they were so skiddish about showing her post-mortem picture? I was literally shouting at the TV, "You showed the man in the FREAKING STEAMER TRUNK!!"
bell83 11-16-2020, 03:18 PM Was anyone else amused that they were so skiddish about showing her post-mortem picture? I was literally shouting at the TV, "You showed the man in the FREAKING STEAMER TRUNK!!"
Mr. Watkins's photo was horrible....I felt so bad (and still do) for that man :(
LooksLikeCRicci 11-16-2020, 04:10 PM Mr. Watkins's photo was horrible....I felt so bad (and still do) for that man :(
Yes, it was absolutely awful. I'm glad he was ultimately identified and his killer brought to justice.
SitcomsHeydayfan 11-18-2020, 04:48 AM A 45 minute episode dedicated to try and make a suicide look more mysterious than it is, instead of trying to find out who this woman is it's just mind boggling to me.
ETA: There is little doubt in my mind that Jennifer Fergate is Camilla Steinaa, a woman who disappeared off the face of the earth in 1987. She was 23 years old at the time of her disappearance, and had started to indicate to her friends that she wanted to live a life "off the grid" so to speak. She is a dead ringer (https://www.usanews.net/politics/Disappeared-in-33-years-New-information-on-the-Camilla-the-mystery-h14892.html) to Jennifer Fergate, IMO. And her age would align with the estimate given by the medical examiner.
Then why hasn't her family commented on this?? On the show they said nobody knows who she is. Someone needs to check with Camilla's family!
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