Norman Lear sold Embassy, who was of course the production company behind The Facts of Life on behalf of Columbia Pictures Television in June 1985. That would be just before the start of Season 7 (https://factsoflife.fandom.com/wiki/Season_7_(1985%E2%80%9386)) for TFOL. There's this LA Times article (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-30-fi-698-story.html) (unfortunately, it's behind a pay-wall) from 1988 (a few months after TFOL concluded its run on NBC) that discusses Coca-Cola's mismanagement of its messy patchwork film/TV production companies.

It says the one guy at Embassy whom Nancy McKeon particularly disliked ended up becoming a bigwig at Columbia Pictures Television after the two companies merged and Embassy ceased to exist as anything other than an in-credit copyright holding company. He along the way, ignored Nancy's suggestions while giving preferential treatment to Who's The Boss?

I don't know for sure if this had anything to do with why TFOL ended when it did in May 1988. Even though its ratings were down, it was still winning its time slot when it went off the air. NBC however, wanted Empty Nest instead despite its disastrous backdoor pilot. If I'm not mistaken, Kim Fields still seemed kind of disappointed their finale (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G17FmvZEpA4) didn't get more fanfare.

The show had run it's course. Mindy and Nancy M. wanted out. The backdoor pilot to spin off Facts of Life: The New Generation was lame. Blair was way too young and too much of an airhead for the role of headmistress.

Well, NBC wanted a tenth season but Mindy and Nancy choose to leave. By the time Columbia entered the scene, Facts had run its course. The girls were adults at that point, there wasn't a real reason to stay together after Mrs. Garrett had left and OOH was closed.

The show had run it's course. Mindy and Nancy M. wanted out. The backdoor pilot to spin off Facts of Life: The New Generation was lame. Blair was way too young and too much of an airhead for the role of headmistress.



BLAIR was not an airhead: she may have been too young to be a headmistress, but she could have pulled it off easily!

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

The Blair/headmistress situation was too contrived. And Irma Kalish did not know how to write child characters. The new kids introduced in those last two episodes made me cringe. NBC made the right move - “Empty Nest” was a top 10 show the next year, and it was creatively fresher.

Very simply put, beverage corporations have no business being in the film and television industry. The two should never mix. When they do, you end up with executives who think nothing of burning down Edna's warm, cozy bakery and replacing it with a cold, sterile, "hip" Spencer's rip-off shop. The idea was to boost ratings, but in retrospect, the merch and decor dated the episodes to a specific moment in time.

The characters, too, became twisted, Blair devolving into a caricature of herself, while Jo became a Pod Person, unrecognizable to those who grew up with the Bronx Brawler. Mrs. Garrett even refused to rebuild her own beloved shop, and quickly exited Stage Left, leaving the show now hinging mostly on corporate characters designed by corporate Coca-Cola employees.

The viewer knows that Mrs. Garrett would never give up her shop. The viewer knows Jo would never become a primping girly-girl. The viewer knows Blair is more than just a blonde flake. But the writers didn't know these things, and we ended up with an unbalanced last few seasons of the show, with Jo inexplicably marrying a man she barely knows and Blair becoming a headmistress, something she knew nothing about.

Coca-Cola didn't know anything about producing film or television, or making sure The Facts of Life stayed true to its characters. By the end, cancellation was a blessing.

Very simply put, beverage corporations have no business being in the film and television industry. The two should never mix. When they do, you end up with executives who think nothing of burning down Edna's warm, cozy bakery and replacing it with a cold, sterile, "hip" Spencer's rip-off shop. The idea was to boost ratings, but in retrospect, the merch and decor dated the episodes to a specific moment in time.

The characters, too, became twisted, Blair devolving into a caricature of herself, while Jo became a Pod Person, unrecognizable to those who grew up with the Bronx Brawler. Mrs. Garrett even refused to rebuild her own beloved shop, and quickly exited Stage Left, leaving the show now hinging mostly on corporate characters designed by corporate Coca-Cola employees.

The viewer knows that Mrs. Garrett would never give up her shop. The viewer knows Jo would never become a primping girly-girl. The viewer knows Blair is more than just a blonde flake. But the writers didn't know these things, and we ended up with an unbalanced last few seasons of the show, with Jo inexplicably marrying a man she barely knows and Blair becoming a headmistress, something she knew nothing about.

Coca-Cola didn't know anything about producing film or television, or making sure The Facts of Life stayed true to its characters. By the end, cancellation was a blessing.




I agree in most of what you say Retro! (except for season 8)

In the later years (especially season 7) BLAIR behaves like a real airhead, JO turns into a POD and so does MRS G; TOOTIE becomes stuck up, and only NATALIE remains her true self!!!!!

After watching the whole season 8 nevertheless, i have to say that it's a very strong season, and probably the only one from the later years where the girls behave like their true selves: i love how strong their friendship has become, how much they've learned from MRS G after she left, and how kind and caring they are towards BEVERLY ANN..... (at least during the whole season 8)

Christopher is definitely right: after viewing season 8, i have to say i simply love it!!!!!

party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:party:

I agree in most of what you say Retro! (except for season 8)

In the later years (especially season 7) BLAIR behaves like a real airhead, JO turns into a POD and so does MRS G; TOOTIE becomes stuck up, and only NATALIE remains her true self!!!!!

After watching the whole season 8 nevertheless, i have to say that it's a very strong season, and probably the only one from the later years where the girls behave like their true selves: i love how strong their friendship has become, how much they've learned from MRS G after she left, and how kind and caring they are towards BEVERLY ANN..... (at least during the whole season 8)

Christopher is definitely right: after viewing season 8, i have to say i simply love it!!!!!


I think the eighth season started off strong, after a disastrous Season 7, but by the end of the season, the writers had already forgotten what they had written earlier in the year. The discrepancies between "Write and Wrong" (8-11) and "Boy About the House" (8-18) being the most obvious: in WaW, Andy has a grandmother and parents; in BAtH, Beverly Ann has to adopt him because his now-foster parents are splitting up and his grandmother goes unmentioned. This is just one example, which any fan of the show will notice: the continuity begins to fall apart, and the set itself grows increasingly strange, like the writers just didn't care anymore.

I think the eighth season started off strong, after a disastrous Season 7, but by the end of the season, the writers had already forgotten what they had written earlier in the year. The discrepancies between "Write and Wrong" (8-11) and "Boy About the House" (8-18) being the most obvious: in WaW, Andy has a grandmother and parents; in BAtH, Beverly Ann has to adopt him because his now-foster parents are splitting up and his grandmother goes unmentioned. This is just one example, which any fan of the show will notice: the continuity begins to fall apart, and the set itself grows increasingly strange, like the writers just didn't care anymore.




You're absolutely right once again Retro!

I always thought it was weird that in one episode ANDY had a grandmother, and in the other he was a foster child???? (what were the writers thinking lol?)

:stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid:

S8 is def my fav of s5-9

S8 is def my fav of s5-9

It is definitely a cut above. What other show would bring back three actresses who had been cut from the show five seasons earlier?

You're absolutely right once again Retro!

I always thought it was weird that in one episode ANDY had a grandmother, and in the other he was a foster child???? (what were the writers thinking lol?)


I think the question is: what had they been smoking? (That's a Mrs. Garrett line from Season 1) :lol:

I think the eighth season started off strong, after a disastrous Season 7, but by the end of the season, the writers had already forgotten what they had written earlier in the year. The discrepancies between "Write and Wrong" (8-11) and "Boy About the House" (8-18) being the most obvious: in WaW, Andy has a grandmother and parents; in BAtH, Beverly Ann has to adopt him because his now-foster parents are splitting up and his grandmother goes unmentioned. This is just one example, which any fan of the show will notice: the continuity begins to fall apart, and the set itself grows increasingly strange, like the writers just didn't care anymore.

You're right Retro! At that point, the writers didn't care anymore about the show and the characters. They should have rebuilt Edna's Edibles. I don't think (the real) Mrs. Garrett would have closed her shop after only two years. That's what killed the show in my opinion, open Over Our Heads and reduce Mrs. Garrett's presence. As much as I love season 8, I admit it wasn't good like before. EE was a personal triumph for Edna, after many years working for other people. Without her shop, she became a stranger in her own house. Then she left for good! Blair and Jo became two completely different girls and they started adding new characters that didn't have a reason to stay there. I'm glad they stopped with season 9.

It is definitely a cut above. What other show would bring back three actresses who had been cut from the show five seasons earlier?

Exactly :D

I think the eighth season started off strong, after a disastrous Season 7, but by the end of the season, the writers had already forgotten what they had written earlier in the year. The discrepancies between "Write and Wrong" (8-11) and "Boy About the House" (8-18) being the most obvious: in WaW, Andy has a grandmother and parents; in BAtH, Beverly Ann has to adopt him because his now-foster parents are splitting up and his grandmother goes unmentioned. This is just one example, which any fan of the show will notice: the continuity begins to fall apart, and the set itself grows increasingly strange, like the writers just didn't care anymore.

It's obvious they did that to provide character growth for Beverly Ann. The whole point of Beverly Ann in season 8 is rebuilding your life after a divorce. She met new friends, she took on a job, she dated again, she went on trips to see other parts of the world with her friends, so the only thing left to do to continue the character to experience new life adventures was adopting a child. This is why I wish she was a one season character. Yes, it was definitely stupid of the writers to make that Andy because he was already written with an established family. I wish it was another kid that was going through that situation of being put back into the system for Beverly Ann to adopt and move back to her home town. That would have been a perfect ending for Beverly Ann than what was written. The writers did really well with Beverly Ann in season 8 for the premise of the show. Divorce is part of learning the facts of life and how to start over after a long marriage.

You're right Retro! At that point, the writers didn't care anymore about the show and the characters. They should have rebuilt Edna's Edibles.

Rebuilt, or never burned it to the ground in the first place.

I don't think (the real) Mrs. Garrett would have closed her shop after only two years. That's what killed the show in my opinion, open Over Our Heads and reduce Mrs. Garrett's presence.

Yeah, getting less and less Mrs. Garrett hurt the show, but part of that was because of Charlotte's insistence. At the very least, in the moments we saw her, they could have written her like classic Mrs. Garrett. And as you rightly say, Mrs. Garrett would never throw away her shop. It was a personal triumph for her.


As much as I love season 8, I admit it wasn't good like before. EE was a personal triumph for Edna, after many years working for other people. Without her shop, she became a stranger in her own house.

Yes, that is a good turn of phrase: a stranger in her own house. she'd flit into a scene and then flit back out.

Then she left for good! Blair and Jo became two completely different girls and they started adding new characters that didn't have a reason to stay there. I'm glad they stopped with season 9.

There are definitely things I like about the later seasons (Natalie, IMO, is a strong point: she stays true to her character), but it's like the writers didn't know how to write Blair, Jo, or Mrs. G in later seasons. At times, the writing is fine, and other times, you can tell something went wrong. I think Season 8 started off strong, but by the end of the season, there were some... crack-brained decisions.

It's obvious they did that to provide character growth for Beverly Ann. The whole point of Beverly Ann in season 8 is rebuilding your life after a divorce. She met new friends, she took on a job, she dated again, she went on trips to see other parts of the world with her friends, so the only thing left to do to continue the character to experience new life adventures was adopting a child. This is why I wish she was a one season character. Yes, it was definitely stupid of the writers to make that Andy because he was already written with an established family. I wish it was another kid that was going through that situation of being put back into the system for Beverly Ann to adopt and move back to her home town. That would have been a perfect ending for Beverly Ann than what was written. The writers did really well with Beverly Ann in season 8 for the premise of the show. Divorce is part of learning the facts of life and how to start over after a long marriage.

I wouldn't have minded Beverly Ann adopting Andy if they hadn't just said, six episodes earlier, that he had parents and a grandmother. To me, it totally makes sense to provide a reason that Andy is hanging around these girls. And giving Beverly Ann a family helps root her in the show. But the way it was done attacks the continuity they had already reaffirmed just a few episodes earlier. Did the writers really not know, in an episode that aired in December, what they were going to do in an episode that aired in February?

It feels as though there must have been chaos in the writers' room.

You're right Retro! At that point, the writers didn't care anymore about the show and the characters. They should have rebuilt Edna's Edibles. I don't think (the real) Mrs. Garrett would have closed her shop after only two years. That's what killed the show in my opinion, open Over Our Heads and reduce Mrs. Garrett's presence. As much as I love season 8, I admit it wasn't good like before. EE was a personal triumph for Edna, after many years working for other people. Without her shop, she became a stranger in her own house. Then she left for good! Blair and Jo became two completely different girls and they started adding new characters that didn't have a reason to stay there. I'm glad they stopped with season 9.



I strongly agree with you on that one FOL FAN ITA!:wave::wave::wave:

Season 8 is definitely the best of the later years, but without MRS G FOL was never the same again: she was the heart of the show, and during the golden era (season 1), Silver era (season 2 to 4) and bronze era (season 5 & 6) FOL was shining!!!!!:birthday::birthday::birthday:

For me personally: 'The pilot' and 'Season 1' remain on the top of my list, and i will always cherish 'Eastland' when the 'Lost girls' were around, and when the school looked more like a home with a warm housekeeper, than just a boarding school....:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

I agree with you, Valentina. The Eastland years are on the top of my list too, then Edna's Edibles period and then OOH (8-9-7).

I agree with you, Valentina. The Eastland years are on the top of my list too, then Edna's Edibles period and then OOH (8-9-7).




I also agree with you on how you range the later seasons FO FAN ITA!:wave::wave::wave:

8 is at the top of the later season list (true friendship between the girls, and it introduces us BEVERLY ANN)
9 is not bad, and it introduces us CASEY as BLAIR's new boyfriend (since CLIFF)
7 as the worst one: i call it the 'experimental season (or MRS G season as a POD):typing::typing::typing:

:welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome:

I also agree with you on how you range the later seasons FO FAN ITA!:wave::wave::wave:

8 is at the top of the later season list (true friendship between the girls, and it introduces us BEVERLY ANN)
9 is not bad, and it introduces us CASEY as BLAIR's new boyfriend (since CLIFF)
7 as the worst one: i call it the 'experimental season (or MRS G season as a pod

:lol::lol: You're right, season 7 is the experimental season, new Mrs. G., new set, new format. The worst season

Well, NBC wanted a tenth season but Mindy and Nancy choose to leave. By the time Columbia entered the scene, Facts had run its course. The girls were adults at that point, there wasn't a real reason to stay together after Mrs. Garrett had left and OOH was closed.

The girls were adults but there were also friends. Adult friends stay in touch and they can even be roommates. I wish there had been another season. I loved seeing the girls as adults who had become family.

Very simply put, beverage corporations have no business being in the film and television industry. The two should never mix. When they do, you end up with executives who think nothing of burning down Edna's warm, cozy bakery and replacing it with a cold, sterile, "hip" Spencer's rip-off shop. The idea was to boost ratings, but in retrospect, the merch and decor dated the episodes to a specific moment in time.

I actually loved the OOH shop. I don't think it was dated at all. And if it was, I still don't mind. That's kinda why I like watching old 50's, 60s, 70s, 80s shows. I like getting a feel of the era through the shows.

The characters, too, became twisted, Blair devolving into a caricature of herself, while Jo became a Pod Person, unrecognizable to those who grew up with the Bronx Brawler.

I loved the later years with the girls when they were adults. I liked the professional Blair and I loved how Jo's character evolved from the rough and tough tomboy to a more milder version. I think it's only natural for people to change as they get older. I know lots of people who use to be tomboys but became more girly as the years passed. Or shy people who broke out of their shells years later.


The viewer knows that Mrs. Garrett would never give up her shop. The viewer knows Jo would never become a primping girly-girl. The viewer knows Blair is more than just a blonde flake. But the writers didn't know these things, and we ended up with an unbalanced last few seasons of the show, with Jo inexplicably marrying a man she barely knows and Blair becoming a headmistress, something she knew nothing about.

Coca-Cola didn't know anything about producing film or television, or making sure The Facts of Life stayed true to its characters. By the end, cancellation was a blessing.

Really? I have no problem with Mrs. Garrett giving up her shop. And I know some girs like Jo who use to be tomboys but blossomed into more a more girly personality when they got older. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy the later seasons but I loved them. In fact, the later years are my favorite era of the show.

I wouldn't have minded Beverly Ann adopting Andy if they hadn't just said, six episodes earlier, that he had parents and a grandmother.

You make a good point about that. Maybe his grandmother died or the parents were his foster parents. But you are right. They should of made that clear. However, I liked Andy being adopted by Beverly Ann. It was sweet.

The girls were adults but there were also friends. Adult friends stay in touch and they can even be roommates. I wish there had been another season. I loved seeing the girls as adults who had become family.



I also would have liked to see a season 10, and this is what i imagine it'd be: BLAIR has her hands full as the headmistress for rebellious teenagers, and rekindles a new romance with either CLIFF or BEN; JO realizes that her marriage to RICK was a mistake and rekindles her brief romance with DAVID, the Frenchman she met in Paris; NAT is happy with SNAKES (they even look good together) and TOOTIE is happily married with JEFF! The end...

What do you think so far?

:typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing:

You make a good point about that. Maybe his grandmother died or the parents were his foster parents. But you are right. They should of made that clear. However, I liked Andy being adopted by Beverly Ann. It was sweet.

They had some good moments, and it was a good storyline. I, too, like having Andy adopted by Beverly Ann, despite the fact that she's brand-new to the area and is penniless... I can forgive all that. The adoption storyline gives Andy a good reason to be hanging around the shop and the girls (finally!), and gives Beverly Ann something to focus on. It makes their presence there much more believable. Now they are a family.

But by retconning the details about his original family in the same season, it weakened the episode. Did the producers really not know, when taping 8-11, that their plans for 8-18 conflicted with what they were writing just seven episodes earlier?

But like you, I'm all for the adoption itself. It's one of the best things to happen late in the series.

As you say, his grandmother could have died, and his parents from 8-11 could have been foster parents all along. But that should have been explained in the episode.

I also would have liked to see a season 10, and this is what i imagine it'd be: BLAIR has her hands full as the headmistress for rebellious teenagers, and rekindles a new romance with either CLIFF or BEN; JO realizes that her marriage to RICK was a mistake and rekindles her brief romance with DAVID, the Frenchman she met in Paris; NAT is happy with SNAKES (they even look good together) and TOOTIE is happily married with JEFF! The end...

What do you think so far?

:typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing::typing:

I love your idea, valentine warner. :wave:

I love your idea, valentine warner. :wave:




Thank you!!!!!

:birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday:

Wait, what? Why did Norman Lear sell Embassy, and how the heck did Coca Cola get almost 50% stake in the company? This makes no sense! No wonder the quality of the shows suffered in the later years.

Wait, what? Why did Norman Lear sell Embassy, and how the heck did Coca Cola get almost 50% stake in the company? This makes no sense! No wonder the quality of the shows suffered in the later years.

Yeah, Coca-Cola bought Embassy; Norman Lear sold it for $485 million (over $1 billion in today's money, adjusted for inflation). It is a measure of how much money Coca-Cola paid which tells you how desperately they wanted to produce television and film.

Coca-Cola wanted to run a film and television studio, but they ended up paying vast sums, because Norman Lear held out for so long. Once Coke owned the company, though, it became clear that beverage executives didn't actually know how to run a film and television production company.

Gone were most of the issues-driven episodes that had made Norman Lear's TV shows famous. There would be no more FOL episodes tackling racism, sexism, or teen suicide. Now, episodes would mostly revolve around things like fun murder mysteries and 1960s nostalgia, with costumes and performances. This style of sitcom has its fans, but the show would no longer win awards for its ground-breaking scripts.

The characters began embracing rampant capitalism, as they opened a store reselling cheap knock-off '80s stuff to goobers in Peekskill. They all (not just Blair) began wearing fashionable 1980s clothes; Jo started doing her nails and spending hours on her hair and make-up.

Mrs. Garrett's role dried up, and she left the show. The writers wanted to keep the show "hip" and "trendy", so they added an Australian character. But by this point, Mindy and Nancy had had enough, and the show ended its run.

Yeah, Coca-Cola bought Embassy; Norman Lear sold it for $485 million (over $1 billion in today's money, adjusted for inflation). It is a measure of how much money Coca-Cola paid which tells you how desperately they wanted to produce television and film.

Coca-Cola wanted to run a film and television studio, but they ended up paying vast sums, because Norman Lear held out for so long. Once Coke owned the company, though, it became clear that beverage executives didn't actually know how to run a film and television production company.

Gone were most of the issues-driven episodes that had made Norman Lear's TV shows famous. There would be no more FOL episodes tackling racism, sexism, or teen suicide. Now, episodes would mostly revolve around things like fun murder mysteries and 1960s nostalgia, with costumes and performances. This style of sitcom has its fans, but the show would no longer win awards for its ground-breaking scripts.

The characters began embracing rampant capitalism, as they opened a store reselling cheap knock-off '80s stuff to goobers in Peekskill. They all (not just Blair) began wearing fashionable 1980s clothes; Jo started doing her nails and spending hours on her hair and make-up.

Mrs. Garrett's role dried up, and she left the show. The writers wanted to keep the show "hip" and "trendy", so they added an Australian character. But by this point, Mindy and Nancy had had enough, and the show ended its run.



You have just spoken from the heart Retro and i find myself agreeing over and over with you!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

Just yesterday i began watching season 9 on FOL, and it suddenly hit me: the show had no longer 'ground-breaking scripts' as you mentioned, no more depth, and gone was everything that made FOL so different from all the other sitcoms.....
Goodbye to the heartwarming learned lesson taught by the remarkable 'feisty red haired': the girls are now slowly turning into very different persons as they originally were (starting by JO who gets mugged and is now a girly girl), BLAIR acting slightly as an air head makes me cringe (especially when i remember her from season 1), TOOTIE has become so high nose, and even NAT was a bit rude in jail when she asks to get transferred to another room (and all because BEVERLY ANN was going to start with one of her tales)!!!!

:nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono:

You have just spoken from the heart Retro and i find myself agreeing over and over with you!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

Just yesterday i began watching season 9 on FOL, and it suddenly hit me: the show had no longer 'ground-breaking scripts' as you mentioned, no more depth, and gone was everything that made FOL so different from all the other sitcoms.....

I think there were still some moments of depth, but the show was no longer tackling most controversial subjects. They were no longer going to have frank discussions of sexuality, gender roles, suicide, or any of the Norman Lear touchstones. Because they avoided most controversial subjects, the show became hugely conservative, in the sense that the topics that were allowed no longer addressed progressive causes: there would be no AIDS episode, no discussion of the nuclear build-up happening in the 1980s, no discussion of the fall of communism which was taking place in Europe.

The girls became Material Girls, now selling '80s merchandise not just to their Peekskill customers, but to viewers at home, selling the idea to viewers that what was "hip" and "in" was what people should be talking about, and painting the idea that reselling merchandise cheaply bought from other stores was somehow "better" than Mrs. Garrett selling her home-made quiche.

The girls, and Mrs. Garrett, had sold their souls to a profit-making venture: now what was important wasn't life lessons about being yourself, explained to you by your mentor over warm apple pies. It was about selling stuff and prettying yourself up so you can land a man -- in Jo's case, a man she barely knew. Her marriage to Rick is one of the biggest WTF moments in FOL history.

There were still uncontroversial messages about loyalty and friendship, but somehow couched in this idea that to remain friends, the girls had to do so while selling low-quality souvenirs to people who didn't need them: they would profit from people foolishly buying their stuff, some of which was so low-quality, they didn't even know what they were selling.

The message slowly became "greed is good", like we were told by Wall Street bankers throughout the '80s. This message was now delivered to us by The Facts of Life and the Coca-Cola Bottling Company, by characters we had trusted, for years. The same characters who formerly believed in the rights of workers to have a decent paycheck when Mrs. Garrett lost her pension were now the same characters gleefully filling store shelves to make a profit on stuff the scripts even tell us is low-quality merch.

The girls, not just Blair, embraced this "greed is good" ideal with new wardrobes and hairdos. At times, they began to resemble the Material Girl, Madonna, herself. I remember an episode where Natalie walked in wearing Madge's exact haircut. This was one of the darker legacies of Coca-Cola buying Embassy Television.

How many times have we heard Mindy testify that she heard from girls who said the Suicide episode saved their lives? When Coke bought Embassy Television, those types of storylines were put aside; how many kids, then, didn't get to hear those important messages? How much blood is on the hands of Coca-Cola, for silencing Norman Lear and those important messages, in favor of doo-wop and diners? FOL slowly became Saved By the Bell.


Goodbye to the heartwarming learned lesson taught by the remarkable 'feisty red haired': the girls are now slowly turning into very different persons as they originally were (starting by JO who gets mugged and is now a girly girl),

Yeah, the original Jo would never have allowed herself to get mugged, that's for sure. Not without a fight.

BLAIR acting slightly as an air head makes me cringe (especially when i remember her from season 1),

To say Blair became shallow is an understatement; this is a girl who fought to make sure her mentor made a decent amount, and who then slowly turned into someone reselling fish pens for a profit.

Looking back, it's easy to see how the "greed is good" mantra of the 1980s came to affect FOL, and it's even possible that the show would have been affected in some ways by that pervasive influence anyway, but Coca-Cola definitely hastened that process. Look at Degrassi High: Aaron Spelling wanted to buy the show for an American audience, but Degrassi's producers said "Hello no!" The result: Spelling created his own show: the vapid, wealth-promoting Beverly Hills, 90210.

I think there were still some moments of depth, but the show was no longer tackling most controversial subjects. They were no longer going to have frank discussions of sexuality, gender roles, suicide, or any of the Norman Lear touchstones. Because they avoided most controversial subjects, the show became hugely conservative, in the sense that the topics that were allowed no longer addressed progressive causes: there would be no AIDS episode, no discussion of the nuclear build-up happening in the 1980s, no discussion of the fall of communism which was taking place in Europe.

The girls became Material Girls, now selling '80s merchandise not just to their Peekskill customers, but to viewers at home, selling the idea to viewers that what was "hip" and "in" was what people should be talking about, and painting the idea that reselling merchandise cheaply bought from other stores was somehow "better" than Mrs. Garrett selling her home-made quiche.




The girls, and Mrs. Garrett, had sold their souls to a profit-making venture: now what was important wasn't life lessons about being yourself, explained to you by your mentor over warm apple pies. It was about selling stuff and prettying yourself up so you can land a man -- in Jo's case, a man she barely knew. Her marriage to Rick is one of the biggest WTF moments in FOL history.

There were still uncontroversial messages about loyalty and friendship, but somehow couched in this idea that to remain friends, the girls had to do so while selling low-quality souvenirs to people who didn't need them: they would profit from people foolishly buying their stuff, some of which was so low-quality, they didn't even know what they were selling.

The message slowly became "greed is good", like we were told by Wall Street bankers throughout the '80s. This message was now delivered to us by The Facts of Life and the Coca-Cola Bottling Company, by characters we had trusted, for years. The same characters who formerly believed in the rights of workers to have a decent paycheck when Mrs. Garrett lost her pension were now the same characters gleefully filling store shelves to make a profit on stuff the scripts even tell us is low-quality merch.

The girls, not just Blair, embraced this "greed is good" ideal with new wardrobes and hairdos. At times, they began to resemble the Material Girl, Madonna, herself. I remember an episode where Natalie walked in wearing Madge's exact haircut. This was one of the darker legacies of Coca-Cola buying Embassy Television.

How many times have we heard Mindy testify that she heard from girls who said the Suicide episode saved their lives? When Coke bought Embassy Television, those types of storylines were put aside; how many kids, then, didn't get to hear those important messages? How much blood is on the hands of Coca-Cola, for silencing Norman Lear and those important messages, in favor of doo-wop and diners? FOL slowly became Saved By the Bell.



Yeah, the original Jo would never have allowed herself to get mugged, that's for sure. Not without a fight.



To say Blair became shallow is an understatement; this is a girl who fought to make sure her mentor made a decent amount, and who then slowly turned into someone reselling fish pens for a profit.

Looking back, it's easy to see how the "greed is good" mantra of the 1980s came to affect FOL, and it's even possible that the show would have been affected in some ways by that pervasive influence anyway, but Coca-Cola definitely hastened that process. Look at Degrassi High: Aaron Spelling wanted to buy the show for an American audience, but Degrassi's producers said "Hello no!" The result: Spelling created his own show: the vapid, wealth-promoting Beverly Hills, 90210.



Wow Retro! You're amazing!!!!

The girls definitely became material girls indeed, but what i find most heartbreaking, is watching BLAIR's drastic changes, when i remember her from season 1!
I know some people believe that her character wasn't developed yet, but i don't agree: after MRS G comes into BLAIR's life, we see her grow gradually (at least until season 6 for sure)!
And to tell you the truth, i find it very offensive from BLAIR's so called friends (especially from JO) to keep calling her shallow over and over! (if someone did that to me i'd be very upset!).
In the earlier seasons they were never so offensive towards BLAIR: sure they teased her a lot, and JO was close to punch her light out, but to call someone shallow is far from flattering!!!!! (In a way BLAIR was nicer than her 3 friends and pretended it didn't bother her in the slightest).

I will never understand how some people prefer the later seasons over the earlier ones??? Sure season 7 and 9 were amusing, but to me they were like any other funny sitcom, and gone was the ORIGINALITY that made FOL so different from anything i have ever watched....

PS: i know we've discussed this before, but i cannot help myself commenting it to you, since you're as passionate as i am with the topic.

:violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin:

Wow, great analysis and explanation RetroGuy2000! I really do feel like the show did become a product of it's time, the show took a huge swing from left to right by the end of the show, as evidenced by the party in the office at the time. For example, sexuality was freely discussed in the first season (i.e. The Facts of Love), and by season 9, suddenly it was taboo to discuss (i.e. First Time). The girls went from wearing hot pants to dressing very conservatively. It was so very evident. I would have liked for the show to continue to the tradition of the special topics that you discussed but the showrunner and producers got so caught up with materialism and capitalism, that the show lost sight of its soul and values.

Very true, the chars all got watered down. You could say its char development, some was for the better. Some not so much.

Could you imagine Molly's reaction if she came by Over Our Heads? At least First Season Molly.

Gone were most of the issues-driven episodes that had made Norman Lear's TV shows famous. There would be no more FOL episodes tackling racism, sexism, or teen suicide. Now, episodes would mostly revolve around things like fun murder mysteries and 1960s nostalgia, with costumes and performances. This style of sitcom has its fans, but the show would no longer win awards for its ground-breaking scripts.

This change started in season 6 though. Season 6 began the turning point of The Facts of Life becoming a fluff sitcom. A lot of fans claim it began with season 7 because of Over Our Heads beginning, but look at the scripts for season 6. You had the drive in episode, the vacation episodes, Kevin moving into the attic, a computer dating episode, the pizza episode, Blair and Jo's parents becoming chummy, and others. These are ordinary things and not ground breaking like the over dramatic season 5 ohno:

I've mentioned this before that fans who were watching back in the 80's didn't care what type of episodes the show did. At the start of season 5, Mrs. Garrett became a supporting character instead of a main character like the previous 4 seasons. Fans were connecting to the core four and stuck with watching them no matter what the writing was like until the end. The show was still a popular success for NBC since they approved another TV movie for season 8 and wanted a season 10. The core four really took over the show and the fans in season 5 and that's when the format shifted at the beginning of season 6. The fact that they were having the core four run a shop called Edna's Edibles without Edna being there told viewers not to expect her around much longer.

Seasons 1 - 5 dealt with real life issues while season 6 - 9 dealt with fun aspects of life. Although season 8 did have some moments like the old facts with the immigration episode, Tootie wanting to have sex, and the adoption episode. While fans claim it was The First Time in season 9, I think Rumor Has It is the only episode that season that was ground breaking. Professor Katt lost his marriage and his job over a rumor. That's far more serious and accurate in today's world than wondering how your first time will be.

Wow Retro! You're amazing!!!!

Thanks, Valentina. I feel the same way about you. :)


I will never understand how some people prefer the later seasons over the earlier ones??? Sure season 7 and 9 were amusing, but to me they were like any other funny sitcom, and gone was the ORIGINALITY that made FOL so different from anything i have ever watched....

I personally can't enjoy most of the last three seasons as much as the earlier seasons, as well. But I do understand why some viewers may prefer the later seasons. Some people don't like hard-hitting moments in their comedy. That, of course, is a personal preference, but I'm not a fan of sitcoms with little redeeming cultural value. There's a reason I watch FOL and not Gilligan's Island: sitcoms still have a duty to inform viewers, educate them, and make them better people. Those "very special episodes" saved lives, taught real-world lessons, and brought important issues into viewers' homes. TV without hard-hitting moments is facile. If you're not using your brain to watch TV, there's no point in watching.

Wow, great analysis and explanation RetroGuy2000! I really do feel like the show did become a product of it's time, the show took a huge swing from left to right by the end of the show, as evidenced by the party in the office at the time. For example, sexuality was freely discussed in the first season (i.e. The Facts of Love), and by season 9, suddenly it was taboo to discuss (i.e. First Time). The girls went from wearing hot pants to dressing very conservatively. It was so very evident.

Great points, Impressions, about even the clothing sort of revealing the show's change in tone. '80sSitcoms mentioned a few times how conservative Blair's wardrobe became, but most of the characters seemed to follow that pattern: as you say, from hot pants to... what I'd call complete coverage, even wrists and ankles, in Blair's case.

When we look back at episodes like "The Facts of Love", where Blair is a tease, and then look forward to "The First Time", where Lisa won't even appear in the episode, we see, in my opinion, that sort of conservative backlash of the 1980s, when the Moral Majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority) became a part of American culture.


I would have liked for the show to continue to the tradition of the special topics that you discussed but the showrunner and producers got so caught up with materialism and capitalism, that the show lost sight of its soul and values.

The show needed a long talk with Mrs. Garrett! :lol:

This change started in season 6 though. Season 6 began the turning point of The Facts of Life becoming a fluff sitcom. A lot of fans claim it began with season 7 because of Over Our Heads beginning, but look at the scripts for season 6. You had the drive in episode, the vacation episodes, Kevin moving into the attic, a computer dating episode, the pizza episode, Blair and Jo's parents becoming chummy, and others. These are ordinary things and not ground breaking like the over dramatic season 5 ohno:

Thanks for the response, Christopher.

Season 6 had topical episodes like "Edna Garrett on Campus" (ageism), "With a Little Help From My Friends" (addiction), "Taking a Chance on Love 1 and 2" (May-December romances), and "The Interview Show" (which may have been the first sitcom to use the "confessional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessional_(television))" technique). So while I agree with you that there already was a trend on FOL for lighter episodes as early as Season 6, there were still some hard-hitting episodes that season. The drive-ins, the vacations, and 'dude moves into the attic' certainly set a different tone, but rampant materialism had not yet taken hold.

When I look at Season 7, the whole overarching theme of the season is "out with the old, in with the new", "let's embrace trends", and "how can we make a profit on this?" This is literally what the Coca-Cola marketing team was doing: New Coke came out in Spring 1985, just a few months before. Coke's influence -- indeed, the whole 1980s "greed is good" mantra -- had become pervasive in the very heart of Norman Lear's issues-driven television empire, and we see it every time we see a character exclaim with glee, "I made a sale!" With each sale, FOL got further and further from its origins.


Seasons 1 - 5 dealt with real life issues while season 6 - 9 dealt with fun aspects of life. Although season 8 did have some moments like the old facts with the immigration episode, Tootie wanting to have sex, and the adoption episode. While fans claim it was The First Time in season 9, I think Rumor Has It is the only episode that season that was ground breaking. Professor Katt lost his marriage and his job over a rumor. That's far more serious and accurate in today's world than wondering how your first time will be.

Good point about "Rumor Has It" being more hard-hitting than "The First Time". I remember the hype over "The First Time", and in retrospect, it's not all that ground-breaking. It's more like... a conservative's definition of controversial.

I agree with everyone here!!!!!

And yes, you're absolutely right Christopher: FOL began his changes from season 6 already when i think about it! (We started seeing less and less of MRS G, and the show began to focus more on the 'Core of 4' instead).

When i look back at the Pilot and season 1: MRS G was the main focus, along with her 7 girls (BLAIR being the star of them); The sitcom by then was about life lessons taught by a warm but firm housekeeper, along with a hyper headmaster and a very eccentric biology teacher!

Between season 2 and 5, MRS G continues to be the main focus, along with now 4 girls known as the '4 Musketeers': we now have many serious issues, that in the end get solved by our wise 'feisty red haired' who has become to some extend, the heart of the show.

By season 6, MRS G begins to slowly fade: at first we hardly notice it, because when she's around she still gives her girls plenty of good advice over home made food, and by then she has become a firm mother figure to the '4 Musketeers' (although not for much longer to my sadness!)

Season 7 is the experimental season (as i like to call it): MRS G has turned into a POD overnight, and the girls have started acting like airheads! (especially BLAIR to my deepest sorrow....).
We have no longer a cozy bakery, and there is no trace of the once warm housekeeper/ nutritionist / mentor and surrogate maternal figure to our FOL girls.

Season 8 is here, and gone for good is our lovable and wise MRS G: mentor, friend and mother to 4 girls she saw growing like her own, to be shipped away to a far far away land called Africa....

By season 9 the girl's fashion is so gross i could cringe! (Especially with the once very modern and stylish BLAIR): gone is the reckless tease and sexy girl who once wore the most revealing clothes, hung in van with older boys, smoked and played the guitar, and even rebelled against a housekeeper she had the audacity to talk down to!
This same girl would 8 years later dress like a nun/granny (or the Royal family, such as Lady Di to put it mildly) and unfortunately, some of her aspect in personality would change too.
The same accounts with the rest of the girls (although not as drastically as with BLAIR) and by the end, FOL became like any other American TV show.

The end.......

Season 7 is the experimental season (as i like to call it): MRS G has turned into a POD overnight, and the girls have started acting like airheads! (especially BLAIR to my deepest sorrow....).
We have no longer a cozy bakery, and there is no trace of the once warm housekeeper/ nutritionist / mentor and surrogate maternal figure to our FOL girls.

Season 8 is here, and gone for good is our lovable and wise MRS G: mentor, friend and mother to 4 girls she saw growing like her own, to be shipped away to a far far away land called Africa....

By season 9 the girl's fashion is so gross i could cringe! (Especially with the once very modern and stylish BLAIR): gone is the reckless tease and sexy girl who once wore the most revealing clothes, hung in van with older boys, smoked and played the guitar, and even rebelled against a housekeeper she had the audacity to talk down to!
This same girl would 8 years later dress like a nun/granny (or the Royal family, such as Lady Di to put it mildly) and unfortunately, some of her aspect in personality would change too.
The same accounts with the rest of the girls (although not as drastically as with BLAIR) and by the end, FOL became like any other American TV show.

The end.......

:lol:

This is spot on. The show deteriorated quickly in season 6.

Season 6 had topical episodes like "Edna Garrett on Campus" (ageism), "With a Little Help From My Friends" (addiction), "Taking a Chance on Love 1 and 2" (May-December romances), and "The Interview Show" (which may have been the first sitcom to use the "confessional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessional_(television))" technique). So while I agree with you that there already was a trend on FOL for lighter episodes as early as Season 6, there were still some hard-hitting episodes that season. The drive-ins, the vacations, and 'dude moves into the attic' certainly set a different tone, but rampant materialism had not yet taken hold.

Even those episodes don't feel as ground breaking like the previous seasons take on social issues. E.G.O.C. felt more like a joke episode because of how fine she was with everyone calling her "cute" even though she wasn't. Old Edna from the Eastland seasons would have told them to stop and that it's disrespectful what they're doing. I forgot about WALHFMF. That one was a little dramatic and an unhappy ending. We all know The Interview Show is one of my least favs so I can't comment on that.

I guess one thing that really makes season 6 the changing point in the show was bringing back the background tune from season 1. Seasons 2 - 5 didn't have that. It made the show seem lighter having a little jungle play as the girls are walking off or the episode is beginning after the opening credits. It leads the viewer into a feeling it's a fun episode.


Good point about "Rumor Has It" being more hard-hitting than "The First Time". I remember the hype over "The First Time", and in retrospect, it's not all that ground-breaking. It's more like... a conservative's definition of controversial.

In today's time, I think people can relate more to Rumor Has It than The First Time. Most people just go get laid and don't give two cents about it afterwards these days. Sex isn't that big of a deal. Now rumors are always dangerous and can ruin a person's life if done correctly. That is what Rumor Has It taught viewers.

Between season 2 and 5, MRS G continues to be the main focus

I don't see her as a main focus in season 5. She's a background character offering the girls advice for their problems. Previous seasons saw Mrs. Garrett have full episodes on her with her ex coming back, her blood pressure, her financial problems, her dating life, etc. Season 5 we saw the core four have all these issues, drama issues at that, and Mrs. Garrett was there as their mother figure. She just started a shop and we never saw the grand opening, her dealing with customers, her adjusting to the new business, or anything about how Mrs. Garrett was in season 5. We got a Halloween episode where the girls thought she was possessed, her fighting with Blair, her son's marriage on the rocks, and that's it looking back. Season 5 was supposed to be a new adventure for Mrs. Garrett but they dropped it to showcase the core four instead. This was the season the core four took over the show.

I don't see her as a main focus in season 5. She's a background character offering the girls advice for their problems. Previous seasons saw Mrs. Garrett have full episodes on her with her ex coming back, her blood pressure, her financial problems, her dating life, etc. Season 5 we saw the core four have all these issues, drama issues at that, and Mrs. Garrett was there as their mother figure. She just started a shop and we never saw the grand opening, her dealing with customers, her adjusting to the new business, or anything about how Mrs. Garrett was in season 5. We got a Halloween episode where the girls thought she was possessed, her fighting with Blair, her son's marriage on the rocks, and that's it looking back. Season 5 was supposed to be a new adventure for Mrs. Garrett but they dropped it to showcase the core four instead. This was the season the core four took over the show.


I agree with you to an extend Christopher: MRS G was definitely the main focus from season 1 until season 5. 'Brave new world', 'The chain letter' and 'Joint custody' are her episodes (although the 'Core of 4' are also focused on it).
But i have to give you credit for what you said about 'Edna's Edibles' supposed to be her new adventure: it was very unfairly treated, and the writers should have focused more on that (rather than only on the 'Core of 4').

I still feel that the changes began with season 6 though: like i said before, MRS G is absent in many episodes, luckily when she is present she continues to give the girls her usual wise advice and is here for them when they need her. Nevertheless, she has very little issues, and you're absolutely right about the episode 'E.G.O.C: the 'old/former' MRS G would have lectured the girls about calling her cute instead of just smiling pleasantly.....

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

'Brave new world', 'The chain letter' and 'Joint custody' are her episodes (although the 'Core of 4' are also focused on it).
But i have to give you credit for what you said about 'Edna's Edibles' supposed to be her new adventure: it was very unfairly treated, and the writers should have focused more on that (rather than only on the 'Core of 4').

I still consider BNW a Jo / Blair episode because their story took up the most airtime. TCL is mainly focused on the laziness of the core four and how they let a chain letter run their lives. True it did affect Mrs. Garrett, so it was a shared spotlight episode. JC is more about her son's marriage than about Mrs. Garrett herself. I would have liked to have seen an episode on Mrs. Garrett's grand opening of Edna's Edibles and interact with customers. Maybe even have an episode where she's offered a better opportunity giving her conflict if the gourmet shop was really something she wanted in the first place. We never saw how Mrs. Garrett really felt about her shop. The only reason we saw her feelings on Over Our Heads is because it was also the core four's store. Unless the core four were part of it, it wasn't necessary to have an episode on. That was the message for Mrs. Garrett at the beginning of season 5. She was just used to keep the core four living together.

Now granted, I like some of the later years. I just don't care for how they put Mrs. Garrett on the back burner when they had all this potential to keep her growing.


you're absolutely right about the episode 'E.G.O.C: the 'old/former' MRS G would have lectured the girls about calling her cute instead of just smiling pleasantly.....

Season 6 Mrs. Garrett felt more like a doormat at times than the housemother she was in the Eastland years.

I still consider BNW a Jo / Blair episode because their story took up the most airtime. TCL is mainly focused on the laziness of the core four and how they let a chain letter run their lives. True it did affect Mrs. Garrett, so it was a shared spotlight episode. JC is more about her son's marriage than about Mrs. Garrett herself. I would have liked to have seen an episode on Mrs. Garrett's grand opening of Edna's Edibles and interact with customers. Maybe even have an episode where she's offered a better opportunity giving her conflict if the gourmet shop was really something she wanted in the first place. We never saw how Mrs. Garrett really felt about her shop. The only reason we saw her feelings on Over Our Heads is because it was also the core four's store. Unless the core four were part of it, it wasn't necessary to have an episode on. That was the message for Mrs. Garrett at the beginning of season 5. She was just used to keep the core four living together.

Now granted, I like some of the later years. I just don't care for how they put Mrs. Garrett on the back burner when they had all this potential to keep her growing.




Season 6 Mrs. Garrett felt more like a doormat at times than the housemother she was in the Eastland years.




I see what you mean about season 5: it should definitely have been more about MRS G's grand opening (rather than the girl's problems), and the only time we have a peek at it, is when her son RAYMOND shows her the empty/abandoned Armenian Deli (soon to become 'Edna's Edibles').
Even on the episode 'Stores games', the girls are in a way more in focus than MRS G, come to think of it.
Yes, i now definitely understand what you mean about our 'feisty red haired' no longer being on the spotlight....

About season 6 i have to agree with you too: the only time i saw and felt MRS G acting more as a mother figure was in the episode 'Working it out' (my favourite from this season cos it's a BLAIR and MRS G episode) and 'The interview show'. (in all the others, she's either absent or really acting more like a doormat as you said).

I know CHARLOTTE wanted out of the show by the end of season 6, but i still feel it was mean and cheeky for the writers to shove such a talented actress at the back of a modern store ('Over our heads') to keep the 'younger' generation at the front (so to speak).

:ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo:

In her book Charlotte said she was upset about Mrs. Garrett's lack of development during the later seasons. She even complained about that to Brandon Tartikoff but we all know how the story ended

I think it was Retro who brought this to our attention a year or so ago. Mrs. Garrett didn't even have her own bedroom in seasons 5 - 7 to have scenes in. They showed the girls bedroom, but never hers. They were showing as little as possible for Mrs. Garrett beginning in season 5. They wanted her phased out like the grandmother type guest star character you visit every year or so. A lot of fans think the main changes started in season 7, but it was season 5 where they began. They started out with Mrs. Garrett in the background as a supporting character for the girls to talk to since they still resembled their Eastland appearance as kids. Season 6 solidified the format change by having the core four as the star of the show with Mrs. Garrett in as little scenes or absent. They also changed the style of the core four in season 6 to make them look older so fans would get the impression they didn't need a housemother anymore.

Even those episodes don't feel as ground breaking like the previous seasons take on social issues. E.G.O.C. felt more like a joke episode because of how fine she was with everyone calling her "cute" even though she wasn't. Old Edna from the Eastland seasons would have told them to stop and that it's disrespectful what they're doing. I forgot about WALHFMF. That one was a little dramatic and an unhappy ending. We all know The Interview Show is one of my least favs so I can't comment on that.

But even if we don't like a particular episode, we can see when an episode is tackling issues or being more than just "fluff TV". As far as I know, "The Interview Show" was the first episode of a US TV series which used a mockumentary technique.


I guess one thing that really makes season 6 the changing point in the show was bringing back the background tune from season 1. Seasons 2 - 5 didn't have that. It made the show seem lighter having a little jungle play as the girls are walking off or the episode is beginning after the opening credits. It leads the viewer into a feeling it's a fun episode.

You raise a good point about the opening jingle's return being a sort of tipping point. It does seem as though adding the jingle made the show feel more light.

However, I'll counter with Andy and George being added to the opening credits in Season 7. This was the first time, since Season 1, when males would appear in the opening credits, after many years of the stars being an all-female cast. This was a major change to the show: now we would have episodes revolving around characters who were never part of the original series: characters who had no relation to the original hard-hitting FOL.

Unlike Geri, for example, these characters didn't have anything to do with Norman Lear; they had no "very special" moments, they ended an era of the show being about women, and had no special traits that made them unique, ground-breaking, or notable to television. They were just... there. And while it's true that Andy had actually been introduced a year earlier, it was in Season 7 that he became an integrated, permanent part of the cast.

With these introductions, Mrs. Garrett's role, already marginalized, became even more marginalized. She no longer even had her bakery, didn't have a bedroom, had few friends... by the end, she could just be "lifted out".

I think it was Retro who brought this to our attention a year or so ago. Mrs. Garrett didn't even have her own bedroom in seasons 5 - 7 to have scenes in. They showed the girls bedroom, but never hers.

Thanks for the recognition, but it was actually '80sSitcoms who first pointed this out to me. It's crazy to think how marginalized Mrs. Garrett became, because she had been the star of the show, but when you realize she didn't even have a bedroom during her last four seasons, you realize just how unimportant the producers considered her.

I agree with you Christopher. The changes started in season 5. Even in the premiere, the plot of Edna's Edibles wasn't "developed" so much, that episode was more about Jo and her problems with the college dorm. Same with The Chain Letter, it was more focused on the girls. During EE's years, Mrs. Garrett was the star of two or three episodes, not so much for the central character of the show :lol::lol:

I have to say that i agree with most of what has been said about MRS G, and when i think about The pilot 'The girls school', i can't help feeling sad: it was supposed to be HER show (as she was promised by the producers) and she became the 'heart of the show' for many years to come...

I don't know about the rest of you, but when i think of FOL, MRS G is the first person who pops into my mind: our 'feisty red haired' made quite a great impact on me the first time she arrived with KIMBERLY to 'Eastland' (Eastlake then); her dynamic with BLAIR is a classic, as well as her interaction with the rest of the girls. It was obvious then that she would be the star of the show, as the firm and warm housemother, who would be the only one able to rule the wild teenage girls!!!!!

All of that changed 'gradually' (slowly so to say cos we didn't notice it immediately) indeed as the 2 main girls (JO/BLAIR) left to go to college: from then on, it was definitely more focused on the 'Core of 4', with MRS G still having an important role on the show.
Nevertheless, the fame she had during the 'Golden era of 'Eastland' (1979-1983) would be gone forever.....

Season 6 was when i still believe the drastic change began though (not season 5): we see less and less MRS G, (luckily when she's around she's her old self and still teaches her girls life lessons).

We also don’t see mrs gs room even when Beverly ann appears and is prominent through s8

We also don’t see mrs gs room even when Beverly ann appears and is prominent through s8

Good point. That seems so odd... (but then again, we also don't see Andy's original basement bedroom beside the boiler room).

Good point. That seems so odd... (but then again, we also don't see Andy's original basement bedroom beside the boiler room).

Haha true but who cares about street urchin? ;)

However, I'll counter with Andy and George being added to the opening credits in Season 7. This was the first time, since Season 1, when males would appear in the opening credits, after many years of the stars being an all-female cast. This was a major change to the show: now we would have episodes revolving around characters who were never part of the original series: characters who had no relation to the original hard-hitting FOL.

I don't like that George and Andy were in the opening credits for season 7. It's only for the episodes they were in that year. They had multiple versions of opening credits in season 7. They should have just labeled them as guest stars instead of giving them special treatment when they'd make an appearance. They obviously figured that out in season 8 since George was never in the opening credits for his guest appearances. They should have remembered this from season 5. Pamela was part of the main cast that year and in the opening credits for episodes she wasn't in. It's better to leave only main cast members in the opening credits and the performers who are guest starring in the closing credits.


I agree with you Christopher. The changes started in season 5. Even in the premiere, the plot of Edna's Edibles wasn't "developed" so much, that episode was more about Jo and her problems with the college dorm. Same with The Chain Letter, it was more focused on the girls. During EE's years, Mrs. Garrett was the star of two or three episodes, not so much for the central character of the show :lol::lol:

Brave New World was just an introduction episode for keeping the core four together. It wasn't about Mrs. Garrett or her new business adventure. She was just used as an excuse. If it was about her, they'd had given her more screen time. We would be able to see how she adjusted to the new change for her character.


Season 6 was when i still believe the drastic change began though (not season 5): we see less and less MRS G, (luckily when she's around she's her old self and still teaches her girls life lessons).

Season 6 Mrs. Garrett doesn't give the advice or stern lectures like the Mrs. Garrett from the first 5 years. The main reason for this is because the writers wanted fans to see the girls were older and didn't need that anymore. Even though Jo and Blair needed it when they were seniors and juniors, they felt Natalie and Tootie could do without. And look at how old they made Kim look in seasons 6 and 7. She didn't look like a high school student at all. It was like the producers and writers wanted fans to forget their ages and see them as four adult girlfriends living together experiencing life moments....In case 80sSitcoms is around, which is where Susan Harris got the idea for The Golden Girls since it's an obvious rip off of this show :p :lol:


We also don’t see mrs gs room even when Beverly ann appears and is prominent through s8

That would have been a huge slap in the face to Charlotte if they had showed the bedroom for Beverly Ann and not her character. I'm glad they didn't.

I don't like that George and Andy were in the opening credits for season 7. It's only for the episodes they were in that year. They had multiple versions of opening credits in season 7. They should have just labeled them as guest stars instead of giving them special treatment when they'd make an appearance. They obviously figured that out in season 8 since George was never in the opening credits for his guest appearances. They should have remembered this from season 5. Pamela was part of the main cast that year and in the opening credits for episodes she wasn't in. It's better to leave only main cast members in the opening credits and the performers who are guest starring in the closing credits.




Brave New World was just an introduction episode for keeping the core four together. It wasn't about Mrs. Garrett or her new business adventure. She was just used as an excuse. If it was about her, they'd had given her more screen time. We would be able to see how she adjusted to the new change for her character.



Season 6 Mrs. Garrett doesn't give the advice or stern lectures like the Mrs. Garrett from the first 5 years. The main reason for this is because the writers wanted fans to see the girls were older and didn't need that anymore. Even though Jo and Blair needed it when they were seniors and juniors, they felt Natalie and Tootie could do without. And look at how old they made Kim look in seasons 6 and 7. She didn't look like a high school student at all. It was like the producers and writers wanted fans to forget their ages and see them as four adult girlfriends living together experiencing life moments....In case 80sSitcoms is around, which is where Susan Harris got the idea for The Golden Girls since it's an obvious rip off of this show




That would have been a huge slap in the face to Charlotte if they had showed the bedroom for Beverly Ann and not her character. I'm glad they didn't.




I'm gonna have to slightly disagree with you on that one, Christopher, sorry.

In season 7 is when i actually see the changes you're talking about happening (not 6): with the introduction of 'Over our heads', we also see the girls wearing a new look (especially TOOTIE, who at barely 17 years old looks more like 21), and to make matters worse, MRS G has also transformed into a POD; she not only stops giving the girls advice, but her attitude towards them is rather distant/cold, and she is shoved at the back of the store for better or worse.:2bump:2bump

Season 6 on the other hand has MRS G still acting as her old self, and although she is not around on all the episodes there is a particular one (my favourite) called 'working it out', where she shows concern towards BLAIR and decides to ground her (she even forbids TOOTIE to leave the house wearing yellow tights).
This is the last season where she'll still act like the mother figure of the girls though...:grouphug::grouphug:

I agree with you on ANDY and GEORGE: i don't think they should have been in the opening credits, (and certainly not on the front page of the season 7 DVD) MRS G should have instead.

This is why i call season 7 the 'experimental' one (as i have already pointed out before): everyone acts weird, and the writers created the craziest and absurd scenarios (like on one episode where they have a life dummy posing for the shop). :eek2::eek2:

Overall, the main reason season 7 is my least favourite one of them all is quite simple: having MRS G, who was all about wisdom and the heart of the show transformed into a POD, was more than i could handle:nonono::nonono:

PS: i also wondered why they never showed MRS G's room in the later years (like they used to in the earlier ones)?
In a way,i feel that by changing the writers, they also start getting rid of our 'feisty red haired'....:violin::violin::violin:

:typing::typing::typing::typing:

Season 6 on the other hand has MRS G still acting as her old self, and although she is not around on all the episodes there is a particular one (my favourite) called 'working it out', where she shows concern towards BLAIR and decides to ground her (she even forbids TOOTIE to leave the house wearing yellow tights).
This is the last season where she'll still act like the mother figure of the girls though...:grouphug::grouphug:

Yeah, the way Mrs. Garrett becomes Pod Person Garrett is really weird. We saw, time and time again, how she prided herself on her shop and her girls. And then... she completely gives up on both.


This is why i call season 7 the 'experimental' one (as i have already pointed out before): everyone acts weird, and the writers created the craziest and absurd scenarios (like on one episode where they have a life dummy posing for the shop).

It's not just the live mannequin. What about Andy the Mime? Who the hell approved these ideas? Peekskill's population in the 1980s was 18,000. And yet, we're supposed to believe there was an audience for mimes and living mannequins, like the streets of downtown Peekskill are filled with huge audiences.


PS: i also wondered why they never showed MRS G's room in the later years (like they used to in the earlier ones)?
In a way,i feel that by changing the writers, they also start getting rid of our 'feisty red haired'....

It's so weird, because we get to see plenty of other random sets; they had the budget to construct a bedroom for Mrs. Garrett, even if that meant creating one less set elsewhere.

Season 6 on the other hand has MRS G still acting as her old self


Let's take a look at the episodes in season 6 to determine if she was acting like her old self.

Love At First Byte has her running around the table playing Bridge by herself like an old senile fool. We're to believe she has zero friends to play games with that she has to be an old lady for viewers laughs? Mrs. Garrett would not have acted that way the previous 5 years.

EGOC has her letting the girls disrespect her. Previous encounters of this has her giving stern lectures standing up for herself. Give and Take, Under Pressure, Store Games where she yells at Jo, and so many others. This was not the old Mrs. Garrett we saw the last 5 years.

Dear Apple has her acting like a maid repairing Blair's dress than giving advice on how to mend things with Jo. They had to have a computer to behave like Mrs. Garrett because the Mrs. Garrett of season 6 was a different version.

Talk, Talk, Talk has Mrs. Garrett asking, "is this the record player?" We're to believe Mrs. Garrett doesn't know what a record player looks like? Please ohno:

The Rich Aren't That Different has Mrs. Garrett portrayed as a really dumb person that she needs a little kid to tutor her in math. They don't have tutors at Langley? She has to go to a grade school to get help because she's that dumb? That's so disrespectful to Charlotte's previous portrayal of a strong, intelligent character.

Working It Out has her letting Blair talk down to her in front of the girls. Just a year ago she stormed off after telling Blair off in their fight and now she just takes it? I know you defend Working It Out, but Mrs. Garrett never let girls talk down to her and now all of a sudden she is?

Two Guys From Appleton has Mrs. Garrett acting like a young teenage girl agreeing to marry a guy she just got in contact with. The level headed Mrs. Garrett was gone and replaced by this POD person who doesn't think and just agrees to make a life decision on a whim.

Mrs. Garrett in season 6 was a POD. Not only that, they wanted to make sure they really humiliated her for fans to see. I think season 6 is the worst season for Mrs. Garrett. She was watered down so much and made as a fool. It was crap. I'm glad Charlotte left since that was the direction they wanted for her.

A Coca-Cola shirt for Cloris Leachman later appeared on an Amazon reseller site. (I doubt she wore it, as she never drank Coke.)

Let's take a look at the episodes in season 6 to determine if she was acting like her old self.

Love At First Byte has her running around the table playing Bridge by herself like an old senile fool. We're to believe she has zero friends to play games with that she has to be an old lady for viewers laughs? Mrs. Garrett would not have acted that way the previous 5 years.

EGOC has her letting the girls disrespect her. Previous encounters of this has her giving stern lectures standing up for herself. Give and Take, Under Pressure, Store Games where she yells at Jo, and so many others. This was not the old Mrs. Garrett we saw the last 5 years.

Dear Apple has her acting like a maid repairing Blair's dress than giving advice on how to mend things with Jo. They had to have a computer to behave like Mrs. Garrett because the Mrs. Garrett of season 6 was a different version.

Talk, Talk, Talk has Mrs. Garrett asking, "is this the record player?" We're to believe Mrs. Garrett doesn't know what a record player looks like? Please ohno:

The Rich Aren't That Different has Mrs. Garrett portrayed as a really dumb person that she needs a little kid to tutor her in math. They don't have tutors at Langley? She has to go to a grade school to get help because she's that dumb? That's so disrespectful to Charlotte's previous portrayal of a strong, intelligent character.

Working It Out has her letting Blair talk down to her in front of the girls. Just a year ago she stormed off after telling Blair off in their fight and now she just takes it? I know you defend Working It Out, but Mrs. Garrett never let girls talk down to her and now all of a sudden she is?

Two Guys From Appleton has Mrs. Garrett acting like a young teenage girl agreeing to marry a guy she just got in contact with. The level headed Mrs. Garrett was gone and replaced by this POD person who doesn't think and just agrees to make a life decision on a whim.

Mrs. Garrett in season 6 was a POD. Not only that, they wanted to make sure they really humiliated her for fans to see. I think season 6 is the worst season for Mrs. Garrett. She was watered down so much and made as a fool. It was crap. I'm glad Charlotte left since that was the direction they wanted for her.



Once again, i agree to an extend: in season 6, MRS G did have some episodes where she acted like a silly airhead.
In the episode 'Love at first byte', she does act like an old senile, and every time i watch it, it makes me cringe!
Nevertheless, on the episode, 'Christmas in the big house', MRS G is her old self and convinces the girls to stay a bit longer and show what the Christmas spirit is all about... (she even had BLAIR relent and sing).

About the episode 'Working it out': the reason MRS G lets BLAIR speak the way she does it's because she realizes that something is upsetting her, she doesn't know what it is and wants to reach out to her. You see her trying to approach her, and when BLAIR says she's cutting classes and wants to go on a date, she decides to ground her, (just as our 'feisty red haired' would have). At that moment i definitely see some of her 'old self': the look MRS G gives BLAIR when she says "you're grounded! (twice) just shows the viewers that she's back! (at least during that episode).

Now, if you look at MRS G during the whole of season 7: you see her acting so OUT OF CHARACTER! she seems uncomfortable in her own shop and so out of place; she hardly interacts with the girls, she is cold and distant (practically aloof) and appears to be confused most of the time.

MRS G in season 7 is the BIGGEST POD of them all!

I don't think MRS G was made a fool for the fans to see, until 'Edna's edibles' burns down and 'Over our heads' is replaced: you have her even saying how she was tired of her business and wants to give up (former MRS G would never had said that about 'Edna's Edibles', that was her pride and her creation).
To make matters worse, MRS G really acts ditzy around the girls most of the time and no longer gives them advice (it's more like the other way round) you see her in an episode babbling in Russian and the girls laughing at her!
In the season 1 until 6, the girls never dared laugh at MRS G (they had too much respect for her) and again, the reason BLAIR talks down on her in Working it out', is because she was very upset over her break up with CLIFF,(not to be spiteful) and i love the ending when they make up.

The reason i insist on the episode 'working it out' so much, it's because to me it's a BLAIR/MRS G episode (same as with 'Like mother, like daughter' from season 1): there is so much motherly chemistry between them, and it's actually the first time you see MRS G act so remotely concerned about BLAIR!
There is no way MRS G was a POD in it! a POD wouldn't be caring and concerned about one of her girls, or try to reach out to her, the way she was about our 'girl with the golden heart'.

I thought "Christmas in the Big House" was when the actresses come out of character and perform for the TV audience. We never seen the characters sing this much in any other episode.

It's not just the live mannequin. What about Andy the Mime? Who the hell approved these ideas? Peekskill's population in the 1980s was 18,000. And yet, we're supposed to believe there was an audience for mimes and living mannequins, like the streets of downtown Peekskill are filled with huge audiences.

I so agree! As a result of the show desperately trying to stay relevant and trendy, the show became less believable! Instead of The Facts of Life, it became The Trends of Life. Oh, an odd ball objects store set against a neon background is hot right now, let's make a store! Stacy Q is popular, let's write some episodes around her! Let's jump on the Crocodile Dundee bandwagon and go to Australia, and then add a character! Ok, in order to make some of these trends work, we have to make each character a pod person and have unbelievable storylines, including dream sequences! There really was no rhyme or reason for any of these things, the show became a show about nothing and fluff, and not about the lessons of life, as it was originally intended to be.

I so agree! As a result of the show desperately trying to stay relevant and trendy, the show became less believable! Instead of The Facts of Life, it became The Trends of Life. Oh, an odd ball objects store set against a neon background is hot right now, let's make a store! Stacy Q is popular, let's write some episodes around her! Let's jump on the Crocodile Dundee bandwagon and go to Australia, and then add a character! Ok, in order to make some of these trends work, we have to make each character a pod person and have unbelievable storylines, including dream sequences! There really was no rhyme or reason for any of these things, the show became a show about nothing and fluff, and not about the lessons of life, as it was originally intended to be.




Very well said Impressions!!!!:wave::wave::wave:

FOL was also no longer about the '4 musketeers', but more about 4 young women who ended up having nothing in common anymore (except the fact that they were living under the same roof as a habit)

:ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo::ufo:

I so agree! As a result of the show desperately trying to stay relevant and trendy, the show became less believable! Instead of The Facts of Life, it became The Trends of Life.

It's true.

It's like the writers sat down in the writers' room and said, "We need to keep ratings up. What's hot right now?" And then everybody spit-balled current trends and they used those trends in the scripts. All of them. :eek:

So we get Mindy with a Madonna haircut, an Australian character, the '80s-est store that ever '80sed, etc. Now, obviously, some of these things are going to happen, no matter what. Remember when every TV show had some kid doing some painful-to-watch rap act, circa 1991? Shows are products of their time. but it was like FOL embracing every possible new trend, wrapping itself in '80s kitsch, as a way of trying to stay relevant.

But the characters and the stories were what was supposed to be relevant, and outside of a few episodes a season, the show drifted away from timeless, relevant episodes, ditching them in favor of inflatable palm trees and wind-up chattering teeth.

And, I've got to say, there's nothing wrong with a funny show like that, if that's what the show was meant to be. But I always felt FOL was supposed to be more meaningful than Saved By the Bell.

It's true.

It's like the writers sat down in the writers' room and said, "We need to keep ratings up. What's hot right now?" And then everybody spit-balled current trends and they used those trends in the scripts. All of them. :eek:

So we get Mindy with a Madonna haircut, an Australian character, the '80s-est store that ever '80sed, etc. Now, obviously, some of these things are going to happen, no matter what. Remember when every TV show had some kid doing some painful-to-watch rap act, circa 1991? Shows are products of their time. but it was like FOL embracing every possible new trend, wrapping itself in '80s kitsch, as a way of trying to stay relevant.

But the characters and the stories were what was supposed to be relevant, and outside of a few episodes a season, the show drifted away from timeless, relevant episodes, ditching them in favor of inflatable palm trees and wind-up chattering teeth.

And, I've got to say, there's nothing wrong with a funny show like that, if that's what the show was meant to be. But I always felt FOL was supposed to be more meaningful than Saved By the Bell.



Totally agree with you 100% Retro!!!!

The reason i love FOL so much, is because it is the ONLY show i know to have so much depth like no other (at least during the earlier seasons) and up to season 6 it was shining!!!!
After MRS G left though, FOL lost some of its warmth (it was as if our 'feisty red haired' had taking the heart and togetherness with her), and although season 8 was the best out of the later seasons, it cannot beat the earlier ones ever.....

The 4 musketeers and MRS G forever!!!!

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Totally agree with you 100% Retro!!!!

The reason i love FOL so much, is because it is the ONLY show i know to have so much depth like no other (at least during the earlier seasons) and up to season 6 it was shining!!!!
After MRS G left though, FOL lost some of its warmth (it was as if our 'feisty red haired' had taking the heart and togetherness with her), and although season 8 was the best out of the later seasons, it cannot beat the earlier ones ever.....

The 4 musketeers and MRS G forever!!!!

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Yeah, for me, Mrs. Garrett still had Edna's Edibles in Season 6, so it still felt as though she was the main character. by Season 7, she no longer had her shop, didn't want it anymore, and would just occasionally flit in and out of Over Our Heads, as she baked cookies in her corner. Cookies that were never even discussed, since the show was focused every week on the tacky merch. :(

Yeah, for me, Mrs. Garrett still had Edna's Edibles in Season 6, so it still felt as though she was the main character. by Season 7, she no longer had her shop, didn't want it anymore, and would just occasionally flit in and out of Over Our Heads, as she baked cookies in her corner. Cookies that were never even discussed, since the show was focused every week on the tacky merch. :(




I find myself agreeing more and more with you Retro!!!!:wave:

Most people think MRS G was already a POD by season 6 (probably due to the fact that she was absent in a few episodes) whereas you and i still believe, that as long as she had her bakery 'Edna's Edibles' running, she was the heart and head of the show!:loveya::loveya:

By season 7: MRS G became a stranger in her own house, the girls no longer 'really' listened to her or asked for any advice, and her absence of the show no longer mattered for the viewer.
By then, ONLY the 'Core of 4' were in focus, along with their tacky 'Over our heads'.:ducky::ducky:

I also noticed, that the close bond MRS G once shared with both BLAIR and JO was no longer present.:crysoup::crysoup:

The special bond MRS G had with BLAIR for seven years was non existent anymore:violin::violin:

Luckily in the two episodes parts of season 8, MRS G gave the girls her final blessings, to never be seen again....:crybaby::crybaby:

:bighug::bighug::bighug: