Who are the very worst TV showrunners ever [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC

08-21-2020, 01:18 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

I think that it's time to add Greg Spottiswoode (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/business/media/all-rise-cbs-writers.html) to the list:
Five (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/all-rise-5-writers-exit-after-clashing-with-showrunner-over-depicitons-of-race-gender.3834814/#post-61612248) of seven writers (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/idcug8/writers_mutiny_at_all_rise_the_rare_cbs_show_with/) from the first season of the CBS legal drama have departed -- three of whom were the show's three highest-ranking writers of color -- over their disputes with showrunner Greg Spottiswood over the show's handling of race and gender. "All Rise (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/93333-all-rise-in-the-media-court-docket/) is loosely based on a 2005 nonfiction book, Courtroom 302, about a white male judge in Cook County, Ill," explains The New York Times' Nicole Sperling. " In an effort to make it of the moment, Mr. Spottiswood, a white writer-producer, changed the main character to a Black woman (played by Simone Missick). For CBS, a network that had been criticized for a prime-time lineup that lacked diversity, All Rise was a key part of a new wave of programming meant to better reflect the American population." Shernold Edwards, a Black woman who has been a writer-producer on Fox’s Sleepy Hollow and other shows, said she had left All Rise in November after disagreements with Spottiswood. “We had to do so much behind the scenes to keep these scripts from being racist and offensive,” she told Sperling. Former Revenge showrunner Sunil Nayer, who is Indian-American, also said he left after disputes with Spottiswood. Nayer complained that All Rise's storylines didn't accurately reflect Black people and other people of color. Nayar, who was an executive producer on All Rise, said Spottiswood seemed more interested in having him make public appearances rather than give him duties that lived up to his job title. “It became clear to me, when I left the show, that I was only there because I’m the brown guy,” Nayar said. “Greg hired me to be his brown guy.” Warner Bros. said in a statement that Spottiswood, from the beginning, had “insisted on having a co-show runner to serve as a trusted and valued partner to promote diverse storytelling with the series.” adding: “The truth is, the intended partnership we all hoped for did not materialize.” Following complaints, Warner Bros.' human resource department reviewed Spottiswood's leadership and decided to keep him and add a Black female corporate coach to advise him. “When it appeared the writers’ room was struggling to function as effectively as it should, I recognized that I needed to change how I was working,” Spottiswood said in a statement. “I voluntarily sought management training and leadership coaching.” Meanwhile, while CBS had no comment, Warner Bros. said in a statement: “As soon as we became aware of concerns in the ‘All Rise’ writers’ room, we took steps to conduct a review of the work environment. While the studio identified areas for improvement, the findings did not reveal conduct that would warrant removing series creator Greg Spottiswood from the executive producer role.”

TMC

08-23-2020, 06:14 AM

TMC

08-23-2020, 06:24 AM

TMC

08-24-2020, 04:41 AM

Reading this recent Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ifcvce/90s_fox_show_sliders/), I'm reminded of David Peckinpah (http://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?pid=8388#p8388) and the job (https://moviechat.org/tt0112167/Sliders/5e75eb48d149763cf08e4966/David-Peckinpah-ruined-Sliders) that he did on Sliders (https://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-the-sci-fi-fantasy-show-Sliders-How-did-it-begin-going-down-Why) after taking over for creator Tracy Torme come the third season (http://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?pid=8147#p8147).

Throughout Season 3, the SLIDERS confronted horror movie villains, dragons, Mad Max photocopies, intelligent talking flames and deathtraps. David Peckinpah commissioned these episodes. The average Season 3 script was an unedited, unrefined mess with characters not being given names or introductions ("Rules of the Game"), nonsensical exposition ("The Dream Masters"), clumsily considered world-building ("Electric Twister Acid Test"), witless exposition (Elston Diggs), and a startling lack of imagination and ideas ("Desert Storm") -- all of which were David Peckinpah's responsibility as showrunner (https://www.tv-calling.com/the-unoriginality-of-fringe-part-two/).

Peckinpah's stewardship of SLIDERS (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sliders-what-the-hell-happened.1075634/) was so lax that poor safety standards got actor Ken Steadman killed on the set of "Desert Storm." Peckinpah's oversight of SLIDERS was so vacant that the first 13 episodes overspent the season-long budget so badly that the back nine were operating under severe cost restrictions. In Season 4, Peckinpah used SLIDERS to express violent sexual fantasies towards Sabrina Lloyd and curtailed a season-long arc in order to annoy his story editor, Marc Scott Zicree. In Season 5, Peckinpah bought a pitch for "Easy Slider" in order to give his mistress (not his wife) stuntwork for an episode.

David Peckinpah clearly did not care about SLIDERS and was grossly incompetent.

Adamantium

08-24-2020, 08:48 AM

Schmo

08-24-2020, 02:48 PM

On what shows did the lead actor or actress also serve as show runner?

RetroGuy2000

08-24-2020, 03:42 PM

On Full House (https://screenrant.com/full-house-continuity-errors/) alone, Jesse's surname went from Cochran to Katsopolis, they changed mothers (https://www.reddit.com/r/plotholes/comments/1vdu6x/major_plot_hole_in_full_housealways_bothered_me/)/parents, he graduated school with Erika Eleniak and then he's taking night school so he can graduate in later seasons, etc. And to borrow from TV Tropes (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SeasonalRot/LiveActionTV):

Yes. I'd add that the house, as shown from the outside, has three floors: a garage level, and then the first and second floor. In later seasons, they somehow add an attic above the second floor. How is this possible when we see the exterior shots don't have an attic floor?

TMC

08-25-2020, 05:30 AM

On what shows did the lead actor or actress also serve as show runner?

Michael Landon from Little House on the Prairie comes to mind. He I believe, also served in that capacity on Highway to Heaven.

A more modern example could be Seth MacFarlane with The Orville.

And while Alan Alda may not have officially been the showrunner on MASH, he had a lot to do with its direction.

TMC

08-25-2020, 04:38 PM

Nickelodeon (https://www.cbr.com/nicktoons-controversies/) coincidentally, has had a really bad track record (https://bruinvoice.net/6670/entertainment/sexual-exploitation-at-nickelodeon/) in regards to their creators misbehaving (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nickelodeon-cuts-ties-with-icarly-creator-dan-schneider-over-abuse-allegations_n_5aba7b37e4b04a59a31205e1): From John K. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kricfalusi#Sexual_abuse_allegations) (Ren and Stimpy (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/arianelange/john-kricfalusi-ren-stimpy-underage-sexual-abuse)), to Dan Schneider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Schneider_(TV_producer)#Exit_from_Nickelodeon_(2018%E2%80%93present)), to Butch Hartman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Hartman#Controversies) (Fairly Odd Parents/Danny Phantom (https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/23958-butch-hartman-controversy/)), and recently Chris Savino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Savino#Sexual_harassment_allegations) (The Loud House (https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/loud-house-creator-chris-savino-fired-nickelodeon-sexual-harassment-allegations-154121.html)).

TV Guy

08-25-2020, 08:48 PM

On what shows did the lead actor or actress also serve as show runner?

Jerry Seinfeld in the last two seasons of “Seinfeld” (after Larry David left).

Desi Arnaz in the last season of “I Love Lucy” (after Jess Oppenheimer left).

bmasters9

08-29-2020, 07:29 AM

Jerry Seinfeld in the last two seasons of “Seinfeld” (after Larry David left).

Desi Arnaz in the last season of “I Love Lucy” (after Jess Oppenheimer left).

I think the late Larry Hagman might have done that on the last two or three seasons' worth of O-R CBS Dallas.

factsoflife

08-29-2020, 12:08 PM

TMC

08-30-2020, 02:30 AM

I was just reading the oral history about the ill-fated Coming to America (https://level.medium.com/an-oral-history-of-the-coming-to-america-tv-show-you-never-knew-about-3df24504d651) sitcom pilot (https://splinternews.com/reminder-a-terrible-coming-to-america-tv-pilot-happene-1793852530) from 1989 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0911189/reference) and I'm now inclined to add Ken Hecht (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0372966/) to the list. Simply put, Hecht reportedly took a rigid, I-know-best approach (https://shadowandact.com/heres-why-a-coming-to-america-tv-show-starring-tommy-davidson-never-got-picked-up) to comedy. And what may have worked on Webster (https://picclick.ch/WEBSTER-Ken-Hecht-1989-TV-Series-Script-124205336928.html) and Diff'rent Strokes (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=what&p=151&item=T:07544), didn't exactly work anymore by the end of the decade.

TMC

08-30-2020, 03:07 AM

I agree with Sal: Jeff Franklin and Miller-Boyett were horrible. When you look at their shows there's a common thread to most or even all of them: the continuity was terrible, the writing was not always great, and major cast members are written out, never to be seen or heard from again.

Does the mess (https://www.macleans.ca/uncategorized/the-20th-anniversary-of-the-most-awesomest-tv-contract-dispute-ever/) with Valerie Harper (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=860&dat=19880111&id=xidVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aI8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2376,964726) clinch it for you in regards to Miller-Boyett (http://www.manic-expression.com/2012/03/18/a-look-at-sitcom-production-companies-millerboyett-productions/) being decidedly horrible showrunners?

The producers of the new show (https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/valerie-harper?clip=54629#interview-clips) were Tom Miller (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1988/02/04/TV-producers-sue-Valerie-Harper-for-libel/9440570949200/) and Bob Boyett (https://www.deseret.com/1988/9/10/18779864/harper-vs-lorimar-trial-going-to-jury-next-week), which seemed like an odd mix with Valerie Harper (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-09-19-ca-2316-story.html) and NBC (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/tv/1988/10/02/life-after-lawsuit/cfcf4c4c-c91d-40f1-9e4c-683bbef8cc58/). Nearly all their previous productions had been for ABC, and they specialized in broad, sophomoric shows, whereas NBC was trying to sell itself as the home of more high-class comedy. But Miller-Boyett benefited from the same fortuitous circumstances as Chuck Lorre and a few other comedy producers benefit from today: they were among the only comedy producers available at a time when the demand for comedy unexpectedly shot up. The sitcom was “dead” in the early-to-mid ’80s, and most of the leading sitcom producers had already disbanded or gone into something else. Miller-Boyett, who had left Paramount and signed with Lorimar (https://apnews.com/4ce37e41bf46dd226a9759ef8c945260) TV (which was later bought by Warner Brothers and no longer exists), were just about to give up on sitcoms and do hour-long family dramedies when The Cosby Show exploded, and the networks went begging and pleading for new sitcoms. And Miller-Boyett were among the few experienced people who could respond to all that begging and pleading.

So NBC set up a project (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mF_A3vZhe_cJ:https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1986-03-02-8601130458-story.html+&cd=31&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) for Valerie Harper (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/14786742-valerie-harper-leaving-valerie-), a product (https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=136566&forumID=7&archive=0) of the high-class MTM (http://popcultureaddictlifeguide.blogspot.com/2011/08/tgif-actor-spotlight-valerie-harper.html) school of comedy, and Miller-Boyett, among the founders of the Happy Days/Laverne and Shirley school. To split the difference, the creator and writer of the pilot — the story of a woman with three sons and an airline-pilot husband with terrifying hair — was a guy who wasn’t really from either camp: Charlie Hauck (https://books.google.com/books?id=I1GfDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=valerie+harper+miller+boyett&source=bl&ots=q6JG14rkvz&sig=ACfU3U2WdEh_FccmZAFn9ffFofS3lrBY2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjq_pWIrsLrAhUJRqwKHQtnC8M4KBDoATAIegQIARAB#v=onepage&q=valerie%20harper%20miller%20boyett&f=false) had written for Maude and co-created one of my weekend flops, The Associates. (He later wrote a novel called Artistic Differences about writing a sitcom for a megalomaniacal diva star.) And NBC got their superstar director James Burrows to direct the pilot instead of Miller-Boyett’s usual people (they usually went with Joel Zwick). Harper brought on her husband, Tony Cacciotti (http://istfitness.co.uk/journal/8e4b98-valerie-harper-sitcom), as a producer (in the Lucille Ball/Gary Morton tradition) and got a contract that called for her to have creative input as well as a cut of the profits (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lP5lh0led3MJ:https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1988-09-17-0070070009-story.html+&cd=40&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us). So as with many star-vehicle comedies before and after, the setup made it clear that no matter who the nominal producers were, the star was in charge.

Miller and Boyett’s specialty, apart from knowing exactly how to combine broad comedy with sappiness, was their quite phenomenal casting ability. (Bob Boyett is now one of Broadway’s most successful producers, drawing on those same instincts for crowd-pleasing material and casting.) They had never done a star vehicle before, instead preferring to pick actors who had only done guest parts on TV or small parts in movies and making them into leads: among the people Miller (http://www.perfectstrangers.tv/milwaukeejournal101286.htm) and/or Boyett elevated from bit-player to lead were Tom Hanks, Robert Hays, Peter Scolari, Robin Williams, Bob Saget (https://books.google.com/books?id=0vjnw5ZNw8cC&pg=PT22&lpg=PT22&dq=valerie+harper+miller+boyett&source=bl&ots=xPNpV7UmCT&sig=ACfU3U1ZksZhKyIgWQGFSFmse6wZZBKL_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2-YzMrsLrAhUBXa0KHd6GBZc4MhDoATABegQIARAB#v=onepage&q=valerie%20harper%20miller%20boyett&f=false), and Annie Potts. The other thing they were good at is figuring out which young actors could be a hit with their young-skewing audience. In casting Valerie, they realized that Jason Bateman, who had been kicking around shows like Silver Spoons and Little House on the Prairie and had played the lead on the flop It’s Your Move, was at the age where he had potential as a teen heartthrob: a good actor with good comic timing, good-looking enough to be appealing to girls and not so good-looking that boys would hate him. (This is, roughly, the Michael J. Fox template.) Casting soap actors in sitcoms was also a specialty of theirs, as they demonstrated by casting a guy from Days of Our Lives as Valerie’s husband.

The show that emerged was a very uneasy compromise between the type of show Harper expected to do (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/did-you-like-full-house.347809/page-2#post-10265136) and the type of show that Miller-Boyett preferred. Their specialty was re-tooling shows to fit prevailing trends and to emphasize any characters who caught on with the audience, while relying on a formula that called for very broad jokes and equally broad sentimentality (complete with sappy music). Valerie Harper and NBC were hoping for a family comedy with an edge, like The Cosby Show and Family Ties. So Valerie started out as an NBC-type show, but every week, Miller/Boyett would push it a little closer to their own kind of show, adding Edie McClurg’s “Mrs. Poole” character for wacky comedy value and building more and more stories (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-hogan-family-the-valerie-harper-sitcom-why-no-syndication-or-dvd-release.495680/#post-13700108) around Jason Bateman, whom they correctly perceived as their best bet for keeping the show going. There were tabloid rumors at the time that Harper was resentful of Bateman, but Bateman has always denied that. What seems more likely is that she was resentful of the producers for turning her into a supporting player on her own show. (Meredith Baxter on Family Ties felt the same way, but Harper had even more reason to be P.O.’d, because the show was actually named after her and she owned a piece of it, yet it was being slowly taken away from her.) She said she was disappointed that not only she but the other characters were being neglected (https://thepopculturists.blogspot.com/2019/08/valerie-harper-has-died.html#comment-4598373128) in favor of endless stories about Bateman’s girl troubles: “I wanted the little boys used more.” She reportedly told one of the producers: “I can’t do this to my career. I can’t stand in the kitchen and give advice to teenage boys.” What was supposed to be her career comeback had turned her, within a year, into just another generic sitcom mom.

bmasters9

08-30-2020, 05:58 AM

Does the mess (https://www.macleans.ca/uncategorized/the-20th-anniversary-of-the-most-awesomest-tv-contract-dispute-ever/) with Valerie Harper (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=860&dat=19880111&id=xidVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aI8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2376,964726) clinch it for you in regards to Miller-Boyett (http://www.manic-expression.com/2012/03/18/a-look-at-sitcom-production-companies-millerboyett-productions/) being decidedly horrible showrunners?

I think it does indeed-- you can't name a show for the main person on it, and then not let that main person have any say in how it runs (as happened w/Valerie).

RetroGuy2000

08-30-2020, 06:04 AM

Does the mess (https://www.macleans.ca/uncategorized/the-20th-anniversary-of-the-most-awesomest-tv-contract-dispute-ever/) with Valerie Harper (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=860&dat=19880111&id=xidVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aI8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2376,964726) clinch it for you in regards to Miller-Boyett (http://www.manic-expression.com/2012/03/18/a-look-at-sitcom-production-companies-millerboyett-productions/) being decidedly horrible showrunners?

As bmasters says, the producers dropped the ball with Valerie. Valerie thought the show would revolve around her. The producers, however, were focusing on Jason Bateman.

Charley Knox

08-30-2020, 01:49 PM

As bmasters says, the producers dropped the ball with Valerie. Valerie thought the show would revolve around her. The producers, however, were focusing on Jason Bateman.

Should of have brought the Rhoda character into the 80's as a single working mom. Move the setting to Chicago and had her working in major dept store corporate office environment full of eccentric characters. Nancy Walker and Julie Kavner could of made occasional guest star appearances.

80 's Rhoda's new tagline: New York, you had your chance!

Even though Miller-Boyett could not produce an intelligent show to save their life, they definitely had an eye for up and coming new talent. I guess you can give them that.

Charley Knox

08-30-2020, 01:57 PM

RetroGuy2000

08-30-2020, 02:19 PM

Should of have brought the Rhoda character into the 80's as a single working mom. Move the setting to Chicago and had her working in major dept store corporate office environment full of eccentric characters. Nancy Walker and Julie Kavner could of made occasional guest star appearances.

80 's Rhoda's new tagline: New York, you had your chance!

I would have loved to see a Rhoda continuation. There were relatively few reunions in the 1980s... at least, not like today.

Even though Miller-Boyett could not produce an intelligent show to save their life, they definitely had an eye for up and coming new talent. I guess you can give them that.

I credit their casting directors.

TMC

08-31-2020, 12:25 AM

I wonder if the show could of had a better chance of being picked up if Wesley Snipes landed the lead role?

Well, the oral history noted that Ken Hecht didn't seem to make the best usage of Tommy Davidson's talents. Keep in mind that this was right before he landed In Living Color. So I don't necessarily think that he was the ultimate problem. Hecht like I said, didn't appear to be the right person to showrun a Coming to America sitcom. I suppose that just because he wrote sitcom featuring black characters in major roles like Webster and Diff'rent Strokes that made him qualified. But he also wrote vaguely stereotypical and offensive jokes about Africans eating bugs.

You have to imagine how much things could've turned out had you had something more "authentic" or genuine writing and producing a show concerning African-American culture. Take for instance, Debbie Allen when she took over from Anne Beatts as the main creative force. Because Debbie Allen actually went to a historically black college and thus could draw from her own experiences, that's when A Different World really started to find its voice.

Charley Knox

08-31-2020, 01:07 AM

Well, the oral history noted that Ken Hecht didn't seem to make the best usage of Tommy Davidson's talents. Keep in mind that this was right before he landed In Living Color. So I don't necessarily think that he was the ultimate problem. Hecht like I said, didn't appear to be the right person to showrun a Coming to America sitcom. I suppose that just because he wrote sitcom featuring black characters in major roles like Webster and Diff'rent Strokes that made him qualified. But he also wrote vaguely stereotypical and offensive jokes about Africans eating bugs.

You have to imagine how much things could've turned out had you had something more "authentic" or genuine writing and producing a show concerning African-American culture. Take for instance, Debbie Allen when she took over from Anne Beatts as the main creative force. Because Debbie Allen actually went to a historically black college and thus could draw from her own experiences, that's when A Different World really started to find its voice.

I can see your point.

TMC

08-31-2020, 01:46 AM

As bmasters says, the producers dropped the ball with Valerie. Valerie thought the show would revolve around her. The producers, however, were focusing on Jason Bateman.

I won't go too far into Miller-Boyett on here (I've written and discussed about them in greater detail on the Hogan Family forum (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=5786476#post5786476)). I'll just say that the simplest way that I could describe their shows is that they were extremely audience pandering, silly/cutesy, and Pollyannaish (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePollyanna). Their specialty for better or worse, was creating wholesome, feel good comedies.

RetroGuy2000

08-31-2020, 02:45 AM

I won't go too far into Miller-Boyett on here (I've written and discussed about them in greater detail on the Hogan Family forum (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=5786476#post5786476)). I'll just say that the simplest way that I could describe their shows is that they were extremely audience pandering, silly/cutesy, and Pollyannaish (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePollyanna). Their specialty for better or worse, was creating wholesome, feel good comedies.

Wholesome, feel-good comedy? Yes, until they killed off Valerie in the car accident/fire. :lol:

(I know, I know. It was a car accident. But shortly thereafter, they had a fire).

TV Guy

08-31-2020, 04:13 PM

I think the late Larry Hagman might have done that on the last two or three seasons' worth of O-R CBS Dallas.

Hagman got an executive producer credit during the later years, but it was a vanity credit (similar to the producer credits for Candice Bergen and Craig T Nelson on their series) and a way of paying him more money. He didn’t run the writers room or have budgetary responsibility, like a showrunner would. Leonard Katzman was the showrunner for “Dallas” for those years.

TMC

08-31-2020, 08:34 PM

Jerry Seinfeld in the last two seasons of “Seinfeld” (after Larry David left).

Desi Arnaz in the last season of “I Love Lucy” (after Jess Oppenheimer left).

Roseanne Barr from what I read (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ik1lqu/tv_shows_where_the_entire_cast_hated_each_other/g3hy6u2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), pretty much got full creative control of Roseanne after series co-creator Matt Williams left to create Home Improvement.

TMC

09-01-2020, 01:50 AM

Wholesome, feel-good comedy? Yes, until they killed off Valerie in the car accident/fire. :lol:

(I know, I know. It was a car accident. But shortly thereafter, they had a fire).

Speaking of which, Miller-Boyett (https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/13/arts/a-team-with-a-genius-for-successful-sitcoms.html) could seem really cut-throat. What I mean is that they (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-01-14-ca-408-story.html) obviously had little qualms about dropping cast members on a whim once they no longer had any use for them.

Remember the last season of Laverne & Shirley, where Cindy Williams was nowhere (https://www.today.com/popculture/cindy-williams-reveals-real-reason-she-left-laverne-shirley-t25226) to be found. And yet, it was still called Laverne & Shirley, despite the fact that it was now just Laverne. Before that, there was the second season of Mork & Mindy, where they dropped Mindy's dad and grandma from the cast since they were "too old" and not "hip enough".

And come their TGIF shows, they dropped Carol's mom and sister with no explanation after the first season of Step by Step. And of course, come the last season on CBS, Brendan was dropped. But unlike Judy on Family Matters or Chuck Cunningham on Happy Days, they still acted as if Brendan existed, just that we the viewers, no longer saw him.

TMC

09-01-2020, 02:31 AM

Should of have brought the Rhoda character into the 80's as a single working mom. Move the setting to Chicago and had her working in major dept store corporate office environment full of eccentric characters. Nancy Walker and Julie Kavner could of made occasional guest star appearances.

80 's Rhoda's new tagline: New York, you had your chance!

Even though Miller-Boyett could not produce an intelligent show to save their life, they definitely had an eye for up and coming new talent. I guess you can give them that.

Ironically, Miller-Boyett you could argue, already did their own version of Rhoda with Angie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_(TV_series)).

TMC

09-01-2020, 03:04 AM

RetroGuy2000

09-01-2020, 04:46 AM

Speaking of which, Miller-Boyett (https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/13/arts/a-team-with-a-genius-for-successful-sitcoms.html) could seem really cut-throat. What I mean is that they (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-01-14-ca-408-story.html) obviously had little qualms about dropping cast members on a whim once they no longer had any use for them.

That was so common on Miller-Boyett sitcoms that I'm surprised there weren't more lawsuits. Valerie's successful suit is the one that springs to mind, but I know Cindy Williams had one, as well, at one time.

Remember the last season of Laverne & Shirley, where Cindy Williams was nowhere (https://www.today.com/popculture/cindy-williams-reveals-real-reason-she-left-laverne-shirley-t25226) to be found. And yet, it was still called Laverne & Shirley, despite the fact that it was now just Laverne. Before that, there was the second season of Mork & Mindy, where they dropped Mindy's dad and grandma from the cast since they were "too old" and not "hip enough".

Laverne without Shirley was pointless and dumb.

And come their TGIF shows, they dropped Carol's mom and sister with no explanation after the first season of Step by Step. And of course, come the last season on CBS, Brendan was dropped. But unlike Judy on Family Matters or Chuck Cunningham on Happy Days, they still acted as if Brendan existed, just that we the viewers, no longer saw him.

You've named some of the patron saints of Chuck Cunningham syndrome, although Penny and Ivy from Step By Step rarely get mentioned in these lists. As everyone must know by now, I'm not a huge fan of dumping characters Miller-Boyett style, because it almost always created continuity problems and made the show feel weird and eerie when no-one mentioned the elephant in the room: the lack of one of the family members. The Hogan Family is one of the few Miller-Boyett sitcoms to even mention the 'chucked' character post-chucking.

icecream

09-01-2020, 09:16 AM

TV Guy

09-01-2020, 10:01 PM

Roseanne Barr from what I read (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/ik1lqu/tv_shows_where_the_entire_cast_hated_each_other/g3hy6u2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), pretty much got full creative control of Roseanne after series co-creator Matt Williams left to create Home Improvement.
She had a great deal of creative control, but she wasn’t the showrunner. They switched showrunners every season or two: Danny Jacobson (for latter half of season 1, and season 2), Bob Myer (seasons 3 and 4), Bruce Helford (season 5), Rob Ulin (seasons 6 and 7), Eric Gilliland (season 8) and Daniel Palladino (season 9). I really like seasons 3 and 4, when Bob Myer was running the show.

TMC

09-06-2020, 04:09 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

He (https://filmdaily.co/news/joss-whedon-receipts/) got angry (https://www.thecut.com/2020/07/joss-whedons-controversies-and-alleged-bad-behavior-a-guide.html) at Charisma Carpenter (https://screenrant.com/angel-tv-show-behind-scenes-secrets-trivia/) for getting pregnant (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/joss-whedon-5-times-blew-feminist-credentials/) and not telling him sooner (https://rexweyler.com/lets-not-forget-about-that-time-joss-whedon-fired-charisma-carpenter-for-getting-pregnant/9196/) so he decided to write her character into a stupid storyline that led to her being written off (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/bfli8e/charisma_carpenter_spilling_the_tea_on_her_exit/) the show, only to return for a final appearance where she died in a coma after acting as a physical apparition for the duration of the episode. He also allegedly had relationships/hook ups with Emma Caulfield and Paige Moss, who played Anya and the female werewolf Veruca respectively on Buffy (https://geekculture.co/joss-whedon-bad-behaviour-called-out-again-by-buffy-the-vampire-slayers-crew/).

RetroGuy2000

09-06-2020, 05:10 AM

He (https://filmdaily.co/news/joss-whedon-receipts/) got angry (https://www.thecut.com/2020/07/joss-whedons-controversies-and-alleged-bad-behavior-a-guide.html) at Charisma Carpenter (https://screenrant.com/angel-tv-show-behind-scenes-secrets-trivia/) for getting pregnant (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/joss-whedon-5-times-blew-feminist-credentials/) and not telling him sooner (https://rexweyler.com/lets-not-forget-about-that-time-joss-whedon-fired-charisma-carpenter-for-getting-pregnant/9196/) so he decided to write her character into a stupid storyline that led to her being written off (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/bfli8e/charisma_carpenter_spilling_the_tea_on_her_exit/) the show, only to return for a final appearance where she died in a coma after acting as a physical apparition for the duration of the episode. He also allegedly had relationships/hook ups with Emma Caulfield and Paige Moss, who played Anya and the female werewolf Veruca respectively on Buffy (https://geekculture.co/joss-whedon-bad-behaviour-called-out-again-by-buffy-the-vampire-slayers-crew/).

Charisma's/Cordelia's departure from Angel was handled incredibly badly, both on-camera and off-camera. I can't begin to describe how icky her Season 4 storyline became.

RetroGuy2000

09-06-2020, 05:13 AM

TMC

09-10-2020, 11:59 PM

TMC

09-17-2020, 03:12 AM

I've briefly mentioned him once before, but this time I go further in discussing Dan Schneider (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/DanSchneider), who created/executive produced All That, The Amanda Show, Drake & Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly (https://dbknews.com/2018/04/09/nickelodeon-dan-schneider-abuse-i-carly/), Victorious, Sam & Cat, Henry Danger, and Game Shakers for Nickelodeon (https://bruinvoice.net/6670/entertainment/sexual-exploitation-at-nickelodeon/). I don't know where else to begin except to say that with all due respect, Schneider's brand of comedy is in my estimation, an acquired taste.

He has this extremely bizarre (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/888unq/the_amanda_show_dan_schneiders_bizarre_humor_gone/dwiuyuc/) sense of humor that could often show a dark (https://web.archive.org/web/20140403191256/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3114981-all-that-welcome-to-good-burger/page-3#entry3470596) and mean-spirited (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/why-is-nick-so-obsessed-with-mean-spirited-cartoons.5550062/post-84507011) edge. Schneider seems to love putting random non-sequitors throughout his shows, where his characters do or say something just because and the randomness of it is supposed to be funny. I'm guessing that his shows were so successful with teens, adults, and children because of all of the crazy, loud (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/98kij3/the_dan_schneider_conspiracy_a_scandal_at/e4gv6nz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), childish, and weird characters being showcased.

I must add however, that the dialogue and writing in these shows are occasionally, laced (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(iCarly)) with sexual innuendos (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(Victorious)) and double entendres. Not only that, but he also litters his shows with what could be considered unpleasant stereotypes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BU4LS1mxw) about minorities (especially black women (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/victorious-was-anti-black-women.3026680/)). He also likes to incorporate (https://adri.substack.com/p/what-we-dont-talk-about-when-we-talk) his obvious foot fetish in his shows.

Maybe it's really just a coincidence, but Schneider also always seemed to pit the girls on his shows against (https://youtu.be/xOU1Y9fev14) each other. This even extends to his non-Nickelodeon shows like What I Like About You (https://moviechat.org/tt0321018/What-I-Like-About-You/58c7b9dff9fcca09a0d7e5da/Bynes-and-Garth-hated-each-other) with Amanda Bynes and Jennie Garth.

Don't take my word for it, but there's a "blind item" (https://goo.gl/XTjiQk) online (http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2014/MARCH.html) that suggests that Nickelodeon wanted to get rid of Victorious (despite its popularity) as fast as possible before the proverbial "stuff hit the fan". There was allegedly a lot of sex and drugs going on behind the scenes that would've been extremely bad for Nickelodeon's image.

What we do know for sure however, is the behind the scenes (http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/future-of-nickelodeon-series-sam-cat-in-limbo-amidst-behind-the-scenes-drama/) mess (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroubledProduction/LiveActionTV) that was Sam & Cat:

The problems seemed to start when, instead of being renewed for a second season, the series had its first season episode order doubled from 20 to 40. This is an unheard-of number for a scripted show; most American series don't exceed 24 episodes a season, with cable shows often having far less. (Even in the 1950s, when it was not uncommon for series to have upwards of 30 episodes per season, this would have been unheard of.) This meant that the cast and crew didn't get a break from their schedule and also didn't get to possibly renegotiate contracts between seasons.
This grueling schedule put a strain on everybody, with McCurdy and Grande both reportedly ready to move on. Both stars began showing up late on set, and McCurdy did not appear at the Kids Choice Awards in 2014, saying point-blank on Twitter the reason was the way she was treated by Nickelodeon. There was also the Contractual Purity of being young adults working at the kid-friendly Nickelodeon; Grande's music career has taken off, and McCurdy was struggling with personal problems, including her mother's death in late 2013 and the leak of several racy (though not explicit) photos.
Amidst all of this, the show wasn't renewed for a second season and instead was placed on "permanent hiatus", with all crew members let go apart from post-production to finish the episodes already filmed. Nick then officially cancelled (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nickelodeons-sam-cat-canceled-718195) the show.

While watching a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrv8XT3_jiM&lc=UgiMS3HiiMWrSHgCoAEC) that was critical of the iCarly episode "iPearStore", I found something that pretty much perfectly summed up all that was wrong with Dan Schneider's (https://allthetropes.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Schneider) Nickelodeon shows:
- Mistaking cruelty (https://terribletvshows.miraheze.org/wiki/IMeet_Fred_(iCarly)) and stupidity that borders on brain damage (what's a beverage?) for comedy
- Torturing the most sympathetic character to extreme ends
- Erasing any rational thought and common sense in order to make jokes and give the Megward (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ButtMonkey/WebOriginal) of the week more torment
- Making the most annoying (https://www.commonsensemedia.org/tv-reviews/icarly/user-reviews/adult?page=1)/sadistic (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SadistShow)character the winner even when they do nothing to earn it
- Throwing in filler to try and mask the lack of a story (Gibby's plot should not be in)
- Side characters that exist for no other reason than to torture or be tortured

TMC

10-04-2020, 01:43 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

Regarding Ryan Murphy (https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2011/11/10/borders-line-the-problem-with-ryan-murphy), somebody elsewhere (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/j481hs/scream_queens_20152016_was_the_ultimate_example/) online said that his problem (https://medium.com/@bantigve/the-problem-with-ryan-murphy-897fd2c0616f) is that once he finds actors (https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/ryan-murphy-hollywood-hustle/) that he likes, he starts off each new season (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/heres-how-ryan-murphy-is-avoiding-the-glee-problem-he-had-before-it-happened-with-american-horror-story.html/) or project (https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/06/200555/ryan-murphy-tv-shows-themes) where he tries to build it around characters (https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/10/ryan-murphy-scream-queens-divas/409240/) that he's created for those actors. And while the characters (https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/05/hollywood-the-politician-and-glee-and-the-curse-of-ryan-murphy.html) that he creates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmoInAtpXkU) for those actors are actually interesting, instead of letting the plot (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/6sqi6v/my_harsh_critique_of_american_horror_story_and_by/) and characters develop (https://hollywoodisnowdead.tumblr.com/post/36468638764/why-i-dislike-ryan-murphy) together, he has to construct a season arc for those characters to fit into.

RetroGuy2000

10-04-2020, 01:54 AM

TMC

10-11-2020, 04:08 AM

I a long time ago, wrote about Stu Kreisman (https://nightcourt.fandom.com/wiki/Stu_Kreisman) and Chris Cluess (https://nightcourt.fandom.com/wiki/Chris_Cluess), who were the executive producers of Night Court (https://www.eightieskids.com/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-night-court/) during its final (https://screenrant.com/night-court-hidden-details-main-characters/) two (https://jacksonupperco.com/2016/07/05/the-seven-best-night-court-episodes-of-season-eight/) seasons (https://jacksonupperco.com/2016/07/12/the-seven-best-night-court-episodes-of-season-nine/). I'm not going to do a lengthy rehash, so I just leave the link here (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=328068).

To briefly summarize, the argument that I've been told was that Kreisman and Cluess wanted to take Night Court back to being like the more Barney Miller-esque episodes that had good balance between laugh-out-loud wit and real interplay amongst genuinely human characters. But Kresiman and Cluess unlike Reinhold Weege, didn't have the skill to pull that off. For example, somebody on the old Jump the Shark (https://web.archive.org/web/20070103205327/http://www.jumptheshark.com/n/nightcourt.htm) site said that all of the scenes played like long drawn-out setups for stupid one-liners. What they ended up with was a crash and burn hybrid mess that no longer knew what it was.

TMC

10-13-2020, 03:48 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

Rick Berman (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/46b4ep/what_is_everyones_opinion_on_rick_berman/) is commonly associated with an unwillingness (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/f1u3gq/whats_the_deal_if_any_with_rick_berman/) to take risks and a desire (http://trekclivos79.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-little-unfair-on-rick-berman.html) to play it safe. Voyager (https://www.reddit.com/r/voyager/comments/ilv6f1/why_did_rick_berman_and_others_steer_voyager_in/) and Enterprise prior to season three, are the best examples of Berman (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/e78dga/a_rant_about_rick_berman/)-style Trek: Little (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/6seu3b/the_character_development_of_voyager/)-to-no (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/29jv3j/my_take_on_voyager_has_no_character_development/) character development (https://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-that-the-lack-of-character-development-of-the-essential-crew-members-aside-from-TPol-Trip-and-Capt-Archer-is-a-major-reason-Star-Trek-Enterprise-is-consistently-rated-as-the-worst-ST-series), inattention to detail (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/david-gerrold-finally-speaking-out-about-tng-behind-the-scenes.273951/), storylines (https://screenrant.com/star-trek-storylines-hurt-tng-save/) that have been done (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/recycled-plots.281922/) 100x over (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/kno4e/what_are_some_commonrepeated_plots_twists_in_star/), and immature attitudes (https://them0vieblog.com/2017/08/30/star-trek-voyager-the-disease-review/) towards sex (https://www.colorado.edu/gendersarchive1998-2013/1998/01/25/minding-ones-ps-and-qs-homoeroticism-star-trek-next-generation).

TMC

10-22-2020, 05:37 AM

How JACK WEBB (https://www.filmboards.com/board/p/2688905/) (from Dragnet (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0503358/reviews)) RUINED (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0503357/reviews) the popular series 77 SUNSET STRIP (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/65468-77-sunset-strip/?do=findComment&comment=4451902) after he took over (https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?58001-The-Cancelled-Shows-you-Remember&p=4778904&viewfull=1#post4778904) production

p6VU6zdQsq4

A look (http://www.tvparty.com/77.html) into the popular TV series 77 SUNSET STRIP (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/SeventySevenSunsetStrip)! How it came about & what led (http://therapsheet.blogspot.com/2012/09/77-sunset-strip-goes-noir.html) to it's downfall (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125314/http://www.jumptheshark.com/s/77sunsetstrip.htm)!

TMC

11-03-2020, 04:09 AM

I LOVE SLiders but I HATE what David Peckinah did with the series. He was someone who simply didn't care about the show he was running. And it showed.

Another sci-fi show that that can be discussed is Andromeda (https://www.agonybooth.com/gene-roddenberrys-andromeda-series-review-23577) after the executive producer and writer Robert Hewitt Wolfe was fired (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/cjsnot/what_ruined_your_favorite_show/evflwob/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) following its second season (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/2j2zcm/gene_rodenberrys_andromeda/cl81eir/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). A lot of people like to pin (https://blog.matthewmiller.net/2014/08/why-kevin-sorbo-is-so-angry.html) the blame (https://moviechat.org/tt0213327/Andromeda/58c7b40af9fcca09a0d443e0/Kevin-Sorbo-ruined-this-show) on Kevin Sorbo (https://www.reddit.com/r/Andromeda/comments/gcif9h/wolfes_exit_was_sorbo_responsible/) for the supposed (https://www.reddit.com/r/Andromeda/comments/dbbeso/did_the_writers_give_up_in_season_5/) decline (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/928ty1/what_completely_ruined_your_favorite_show_for_you/e33xim7/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in quality (https://www.enworld.org/threads/andromeda-sucks-now.59455/page-2) of the show, but it isn't like he (https://moviechat.org/tt0213327/Andromeda/58c7b40af9fcca09a0d443a9/What-did-Kevin-Sorbo-do) didn't have any "help" (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/andromeda-any-good.294500/#post-12495674). Basically, Wolfe wanted a more serialized show that focused on the entire crew of Andromeda. Sorbo and the suits however wanted a more action oriented show focused almost entirely on Sorbo's character.

TMC

12-22-2020, 02:36 AM

Would you consider Aaron Spelling to be a bad showrunner, at least by the time we got to Beverly Hills, 90210 (http://teendramawhore.com/2010/01/17/beverly-hills-90210-producer-talks-college-years-slams-new-90210/)?

Every pitch by the writers to Aaron Spelling had to start off with what Donna would be doing in the episode, even if she only had a few scenes.

Jamie Walters' abusive boyfriend character was supposed to stick around and be rehabilitated. But Aaron Spelling had him canned because fans thought Donna looked dumb for staying with him. Jamie Walters still got paid a million dollars even though he wasn't on the show anymore.

Aaron Spelling was always bad with casting minorities. That's how Mark Damon Espinoza was cast as Andrea's husband Jesse even though he wasn't very attractive. And the D'Shawn Hardell character was written out because Aaron Spelling didn't like that the writers were trying to put him with Donna (https://www.reddit.com/r/BeverlyHills90210/comments/e2mb9d/the_lack_of_diversity_on_the_series_from_the/).

Jennie Garth hated Dalton James who played her boyfriend Mark in season 7, so Aaron Spelling told producers the guy was an anti-Semite and had to be fired. There was no evidence that was true, but the actor had been signed for a whole year and half the season had to be rewritten as a result.

Aaron Spelling never wanted any of his showrunners to have success without him. After they left his shows, Spelling made sure that Fox never hired them again.

From what I've gathered, Aaron Spelling never believed that ambitious writing was good for ratings. And he may have been right to a certain degree. His success proved him right. But his approach rarely helped a show long term. His shows got a lot of initial buzz. But when the novelty factor wore off, it became way too obvious that most of his shows (Charlie's Angels for instance) lacked substance.

Sal

12-22-2020, 04:56 PM

icecream

12-22-2020, 05:14 PM

Aaron Spelling was good on 7th Heaven. His absence was felt in season 11 after his death, that final season was a lot worse.

TMC

12-28-2020, 10:59 PM

Aaron Spelling was good on 7th Heaven. His absence was felt in season 11 after his death, that final season was a lot worse.

How much creative influence or control did Aaron Spelling actually have on 7th Heaven? I always thought and assumed that Brenda Hampton did most of the heavy lifting. And the final season was already problematic because they were working with a lesser budget and the show was renewed by The CW (in its first year of operation) at virtually the last minute.

icecream

12-28-2020, 11:32 PM

How much creative influence or control did Aaron Spelling actually have on 7th Heaven? I always thought and assumed that Brenda Hampton did most of the heavy lifting.Aaron Spelling was credited as an executive producer all of the 10 seasons he was alive right at the end of every episode, along with E. Duke Vincent.

TMC

12-29-2020, 12:23 AM

Is there any other soap opera (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/the-young-and-the-restless-2012.357228/page-45#post-10671051) showrunner (https://www.goldderby.com/forum/daytime-tv/why-did-jill-farren-phelps-resign-from-another-world-and-oltl/) who has gotten so much heat (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/the-good-and-bad-about-jill-farren-phelps/179403) for all of the wrong reasons (http://myunderreview.blogspot.com/2016/06/in-defense-of-jill-farren-phelps.html) than Jill Farren Phelps (https://www.tvinsider.com/2674/young-and-the-restless-jill-farren-phelps-chuck-pratt-interview-part-1/)? The running joke (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anotherworldboardfpb/the-mistress-of-evil-jill-farren-phelps-t497.html) it seems for her (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/soap-opera-tea.269986/page-32#post-58299222) is that she always (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/10877-showkillers-the-actors-who-destroy-successful-shows/?do=findComment&comment=197559) leaves (https://daytimeconfidential.com/2016/06/08/jill-farren-phelps-out-at-the-young-and-the-restless) shows (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/jill-farren-phelps-ruining-everything/194839) in worse shape (https://soaps.sheknows.com/message-boards/t/soap-killer-jill-farren-phelps/179328) than when she arrives (https://www.celebdirtylaundry.com/2013/jill-farren-phelps-cancels-soap-opera-young-and-the-restless-one-life-to-live-1210/).

DJBCAwardz

12-30-2020, 09:54 PM

Phelps also had a knack for firing either a popular actress over 40, or a red-headed actress over 40, case in point (below)...
- Ellen Parker (GL) - won an Emmy after getting killed off
- Robin Strasser (OLTL) - came back when Valentini (or Tomlin?) became Showrunner
- Don't know Actress's name, but played Frankie (AW) - led to AW's quick demise
- Genie Francis (GH) - which led to the Sonny & Jason bromance that is still the forefront of GH today, even with Francis back
- Michelle Stafford (Y&R) - she ironically snuck over to GH for a few years, before returning to Y&R

TMC

01-02-2021, 03:17 AM

I wonder if the show could of had a better chance of being picked up if Wesley Snipes landed the lead role?

Tommy Davidson wrote (https://books.google.com/books?id=iIeVDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Living+in+Color:+What%27s+Funny+About+Me&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKoqnpuLHtAhVhSzABHY_uDKsQ6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=Coming%20to%20America&f=false) in his book that Ken Hecht came from the golden age of comedy, where he knew about the setup, joke, joke, and another joke but didn't have a feel for Eddie Murphy's style of comedy nor a feel for Black pride. Hecht was someone who could right for children like Diff'rent Strokes and Webster but didn't know how to right for a comedian like Tommy Davidson, who could deliver.

And going back to the Black pride issue, Davidson may have been on to something. The '90s was really when "Urban Contemporary" entertainment became hot. You had, The Arsenio Hall Show (https://www.vibe.com/2019/01/music-sermon-arsenio-hall-show), In Living Color (https://theboombox.com/for-us-by-us-how-foxs-answer-to-must-see-tv-validated-hip-hop-culture/) (for which Tommy Davidson soon became a cast member of), A Different World (https://hiplatina.com/90s-poc-tv-shows/10/) (once Debbie Allen took over in Season 2), The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (https://www.popmatters.com/homey-dont-play-that-peisner-2564692349.html?rebelltitem=4), Martin (https://medium.com/musicsermon/for-us-by-us-how-foxs-answer-to-must-see-tv-validated-hip-hop-culture-ce7d4ccd86cb), and Living Single (https://screenrant.com/black-tv-shows-iconic-culture-defining/). In essence, Ken Hecht was totally out of touch and off-point in regards to where television starring (https://baylorlariat.com/2019/04/02/black-culture-comes-to-the-forefront/) African-Americans was going (https://books.google.com/books?id=hS8rDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=the+arsenio+hall+show+in+living+color+martin+hip+hop+culture+a+different+world&source=bl&ots=SR4tCSI4wg&sig=ACfU3U2-pCrKD2ZTqCnEwmRUTyJK1PEtsg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiuo7Db2vztAhXqx1kKHaj0Bw04ChDoATAIegQICRAC#v=onepage&q=the%20arsenio%20hall%20show%20in%20living%20color%20martin%20hip%20hop%20culture%20a%20different%20world&f=false) towards the end of the '80s.

TMC

01-02-2021, 03:34 AM

That was so common on Miller-Boyett sitcoms that I'm surprised there weren't more lawsuits. Valerie's successful suit is the one that springs to mind, but I know Cindy Williams had one, as well, at one time.

Laverne without Shirley was pointless and dumb.

You've named some of the patron saints of Chuck Cunningham syndrome, although Penny and Ivy from Step By Step rarely get mentioned in these lists. As everyone must know by now, I'm not a huge fan of dumping characters Miller-Boyett style, because it almost always created continuity problems and made the show feel weird and eerie when no-one mentioned the elephant in the room: the lack of one of the family members. The Hogan Family is one of the few Miller-Boyett sitcoms to even mention the 'chucked' character post-chucking.

I read a discussion (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/miller-boyett-tgif-style-sitcoms-could-they-work-today.1049547/) elsewhere that ask whether or not the type of sitcoms that Miller-Boyett produced for TGIF (i.e. Family Matters, Full House, Step by Step, Perfect Strangers) could work today when compared to the early '90s. Miller-Boyett had a very specific formula for their shows. They usually had themes of abstinence, marriage, saying no to drugs, etc. Basically, instead of taking on a decidedly head-on approach to social issues (like say Dinosaurs), Miller-Boyett usually handled such issues in ham-fisted ways.

In regards to their breakout characters (such as Urkel on Family Matters, Cody on Step by Step, or Michelle on Full House), they'll of course start off as minor characters before eventually becoming the dominating, driving force and you could say, catchphrase machines. Each character becomes almost a cartoon (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Flanderization/LiveActionTV) in how far their catchphrases defined them.

TMC

01-05-2021, 01:00 AM

I don't have a lot of evidence (https://creativescreenwriting.com/tv-comedy-writing-isnt-backup-plan-comedy-chameleon-tim-doyle-discusses-kids-alright/) but I want to feel inclined to add Tim Doyle (https://cheddar.com/media/the-kids-are-alright-creator-tim-doyle-on-the-staying-power-of-sitcoms). There have been whispers (https://deadline.com/2019/08/schooled-new-showrunner-ahead-of-goldbergs-spinoffs-second-season-1202670123/#comments) out there that he has been in the past, verbally abusive towards female writers. We do know that he departed (https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2485980/abcs-schooled-is-getting-a-showrunner-change-up-again-but-theres-good-news-for-fans) from the Goldbergs spin-off Schooled 13 episodes into the second/final season due to "creative differences sparked by Doyle’s vision for the comedy, which did not reconcile with ABC, Sony TV, and ABC Studios’." Doyle (https://tvline.com/2012/06/11/last-man-standing-alexandra-krosney-leaving/#comment-list-wrapper) was a (if not thee) driving force (https://www.cinemablend.com/television/Last-Man-Standing-Re-casts-Three-Roles-Season-2-45542.html) behind the removal of Alexandra Kronsey from Last Man Standing (https://parade.com/158283/nancyberk/showbiz-analysis-with-last-man-standings-tim-doyle/) after (https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/9/28/17911610/last-man-standing-review-season-7-explained-tim-allen-trump) the first season.

icecream

01-05-2021, 02:25 AM

TMC

01-05-2021, 04:39 AM

Tim Doyle was not the force behind Alexandra Krosney being fired, that I blame on Tim Allen. And posting rumors about Tim Doyle being abusive is unproven gossip that is not needed, you seem to have a vendetta against him. I have a bunch of contempt for ABC screwing TKAA out of a renewal for Liz Meriwether's pair of garbage comedies. I did not watch Schooled, but wouldn't put anything past ABC with their shoddy treatment of him. Plus that show had a lot bigger problems with Bryan Callen, who was on Schooled from day one long before Tim Doyle was hired.

Noticed that I said that Doyle was more than likely one (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/arts/television/last-man-standing-uses-an-experienced-stable-of-writers.html) of the forces/influences behind (https://deadline.com/2012/06/tim-doyle-joins-abcs-last-man-standing-as-new-showrunner-284788/#comments) Alexandra Krosney's removal/firing. He all but admitted (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=4746912&postcount=3) to not liking her either way on Facebook back in 2012. And with all due respect, I didn't come here to talk about TKAA (https://www.mandatory.com/culture/1473025-interview-tim-doyle-sitcom), but previously or already established shows that Tim Doyle came on to. He rightly or wrongly, admitted (https://creativescreenwriting.com/tv-comedy-writing-isnt-backup-plan-comedy-chameleon-tim-doyle-discusses-kids-alright/) that he's essentially a "journeyman TV writer" in that most of the time, he comes onto a project that is already in progress so the story world and characters are already set. As for whether or not Tim Doyle was abusive to his female writers, well here's a link (https://twitter.com/jeannedarst/status/1287080509533642752?lang=en) to what Jeanne Darst said about him on Twitter.

TMC

01-05-2021, 05:53 AM

Regarding Ryan Murphy (https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2011/11/10/borders-line-the-problem-with-ryan-murphy), somebody elsewhere (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/j481hs/scream_queens_20152016_was_the_ultimate_example/) online said that his problem (https://medium.com/@bantigve/the-problem-with-ryan-murphy-897fd2c0616f) is that once he finds actors (https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/ryan-murphy-hollywood-hustle/) that he likes, he starts off each new season (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/heres-how-ryan-murphy-is-avoiding-the-glee-problem-he-had-before-it-happened-with-american-horror-story.html/) or project (https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/06/200555/ryan-murphy-tv-shows-themes) where he tries to build it around characters (https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/10/ryan-murphy-scream-queens-divas/409240/) that he's created for those actors. And while the characters (https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/05/hollywood-the-politician-and-glee-and-the-curse-of-ryan-murphy.html) that he creates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmoInAtpXkU) for those actors are actually interesting, instead of letting the plot (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/6sqi6v/my_harsh_critique_of_american_horror_story_and_by/) and characters develop (https://hollywoodisnowdead.tumblr.com/post/36468638764/why-i-dislike-ryan-murphy) together, he has to construct a season arc for those characters to fit into.

Ryan Murphy's work is suffering on Netflix: He now seems to favor winners over underdogs (https://www.vulture.com/article/ryan-murphy-netflix-shows.html)

Murphy's recent movie musical The Prom marked his latest disappointing project for Netflix, arriving after lackluster reviews for The Politician, Hollywood and Ratched. The megaproducer's $300 million 2018 Netflix deal gave him cash and independence. But as Vulture's Jackson McHenry points out, it may have made Murphy out of touch with what made his previous shows so great. "The nine shows he’d produced at FX over 15 years, including Nip/Tuck, Glee, and American Horror Story, had always been maximal, attention-grabbing, full of cruelty or gore," says McHenry. "Run through with a strain of righteousness, they focused on underdog characters (theater geeks, gay teens, brunettes) boxing out their own space in the world. The shows could be angry about injustices of class, race, gender, sexuality, and, often, beauty. They could also be scattershot, favoring big swings in tone over consistency. More often than not, they had you by the throat. Murphy’s move to Netflix marked a certain anointment by the industry — at the time, it was called the biggest deal for a TV creator in history — and Murphy talked about it as if he had been invited to sit with the homecoming court at the cafeteria....But with millions in hand and more power than ever, the work Murphy has made at Netflix so far has been curiously tedious. In a review of his spring 2020 miniseries Hollywood (https://www.vulture.com/2020/04/hollywood-review-netflix-ryan-murphy.html), this magazine called it 'so narrow-minded that its sentimentality curls all the way back around to cynicism.' When Ratched premiered in the fall, the Ringer’s headline was simply 'Another Ryan Murphy Netflix Show, Another Miss.' (https://www.theringer.com/tv/2020/9/22/21450566/ratched-review-ryan-murphy-netflix) Murphy has always had an eye for clever casting — reviving the career of an older actress, spinning out a career for one of his favorite regular players. Now, he has seemingly grown enamored with the possibility of casting whichever stars he pleases and allergic to challenging them with unflattering material. His sympathies, always conflicted between the world’s brown-haired losers and its glamorous blonde winners, have tipped slightly but conclusively toward the side of the winners." That can be seen in Murphy's seeming obsession with celebrities in his Netflix work. "Murphy has long had a sense of the chutes and ladders of power: who’s climbing up, and who’s pushing everyone else down," says McHenry. "Now that he’s on top at Netflix, he seems to have grown more fond of the whole board game. In his 2019 Time profile (https://time.com/5667752/ryan-murphy-netflix/), Murphy notes that 'everything I’m working on is about one idea — taking marginalized characters and putting them in the leading story.' He brags about how he has every A-lister’s phone number — except for Meryl Streep’s. ('There’s everybody, and then there’s Meryl.') Those have always been Murphy’s two conflicting motivations, which he’s channeled through his characters all the way back to Popular: identification with the underdog and obsession with the top dog....While Murphy’s star casting goes back to Glee and American Horror Story, on Netflix it has gone into overdrive. See the casting of Cynthia Nixon in Ratched or Bette Midler in The Politician: Both play characters that wink at their own personae (a powerful queer woman, a comedic schemer) and never go deeper than that. Murphy’s desire to center A-listers is made most literal in The Prom. Unlike its Broadway iteration, which humbled and humiliated its stuck-up actor characters, Murphy’s version celebrates the magic of celebrity....The humor and tension of so many of Murphy’s earlier series came from an awareness of the world’s unfairness and the absurdity of in-group politics. Resentment was the grist for his content mill. In his Netflix work, Murphy has created fantasies of acceptance — noble, perhaps, but quickly and cheaply earned. When resentment does appear, it flows outward and down, toward the haters, the critics, or the townspeople of Indiana."

TV Guy

01-05-2021, 10:52 PM

Tim Doyle was not the force behind Alexandra Krosney being fired, that I blame on Tim Allen. And posting rumors about Tim Doyle being abusive is unproven gossip that is not needed, you seem to have a vendetta against him.

TMC spends a great deal of time on these boards posting unfounded rumors and gossip. They made a post on the Family Ties board about Justine Bateman being bitter about her brother’s success, with absolutely no evidence. I’ve decided to start calling TMC out on these posts, and I’m glad you’re doing it as well. The worst thing we can do is say nothing when we see this type of gossip and rumormongering.

TMC

01-06-2021, 01:27 AM

TMC spends a great deal of time on these boards posting unfounded rumors and gossip. They made a post on the Family Ties board about Justine Bateman being bitter about her brother’s success, with absolutely no evidence. I’ve decided to start calling TMC out on these posts, and I’m glad you’re doing it as well. The worst thing we can do is say nothing when we see this type of gossip and rumormongering.

And all you do is instead of actually addressing the subject at hand, you immediately make defensive, ad hominem attacks against me (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5625270&postcount=5) and take things that I said out of context. In case you didn't see it, I already addressed and attempted to clarify (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5828216&postcount=7) what I said about Justine Bateman. Like when I asked (since we're talking about Jason and Justine Bateman) whether or not Valerie Harper showed signs of actually being "difficult", thus prompting her removal from her very own sitcom Valerie. Instead of answering the question, you right away accuse me of doing nothing more than "spread gossip (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5842123&postcount=3)", even though she really did get fired for one reason or another.

And when I brought up (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5598695&postcount=2) Fred MacMurray's admitted "detachment" from his work on My Three Sons, you flat out accuse me of "slandering/disparaging" a dead man. In the case of Tim Doyle, how exactly am I making stuff up all by myself, when I just said that a female writer who worked for him on The Kids Are Alright implied on Twitter (https://twitter.com/jeannedarst/status/1287080509533642752?lang=en) that he used abusive language? You completely and absolutely overlooked if not flat out ignored what I just said (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5843510&postcount=63).

TMC

01-09-2021, 04:17 AM

I think Carsey-Werner (Marcy Carsey and Tom Werner) may be up there in the worst category; if only for giving their marquee stars way too much influence and power on-set and allowing terrible and abusive behavior from those stars to go unchecked. Between Cybill Shepherd reportedly being a witch to her co-stars to Roseanne reportedly being a tyrant and Brett Butler's well documented issues on-set, they seemed to either have no control over their sets or just blatantly ignored the problems on-set.

When I was going through an old thread (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=145212&page=5) that compared and contrast Carsey-Werner's sitcoms with Miller-Boyett's, I was remined that I posted this:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,289333_2,00.html

Intriguingly enough, Carsey-Werner's problems on Grace are only the latest examples of an unenviable trend for the producers. With hits like The Cosby Show and Roseanne to its credit, the production company is one of the most successful and profitable in TV history. But the producers have also developed a reputation for troubled shows. In addition to Grace, Carsey-Werner has had to deal with noisy clashes on the sets of Roseanne, Cybill, and most recently, Men Behaving Badly. After numerous backstage problems last year, Men opens this season with Ron Eldard and Justine Bateman gone and only Rob Schneider remaining from the original cast.

Many fault the company's management style. "Carsey-Werner empowers the stars and gives them too much weight," says one former ABC programming executive. "They take the power away from the executive producer, and that is who needs to call the shots." Adds a former Grace executive producer, "They won't stick up for the writer, and it's very frustrating." The producer, who quit before his contract expired, explains, "It's not worth the money."

Ken Levine pretty much said in his blog (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2018/05/my-thoughts-on-roseanne-being-cancelled.html) that not only Carey-Werner enabled problematic, egotistical stars like Roseanne Barr, Bill Cosby, Cybill Shepherd, and Brett Butler, they just threw money at the perceived problem instead of actually remedying it:
But what about the enablers? What about the Carsey-Werner Company? For years they’ve built an empire on stars who were monsters and just threw money at the problems and went home while showrunners and writers were pummeled on a daily basis. ROSEANNE (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2018/05/my-feud-with-roseanne-look-back.html), COSBY, CYBILL, GRACE UNDER FIRE (starring another loose cannon, Bret Butler). Writers were sent into a wood chipper. Carsey & Werner just threw a lot of money at them and a lot of money at the ones who replaced them when they just couldn’t take it anymore. The stories are legendary. These monsters (stars) got away with everything. So now if the COSBY show is pulled forever and ROSEANNE is yanked from schedules, you’ll pardon me if I don’t shed a tear for the poor production company that will no longer see syndication blood money. We all got into this business to be writers, not wranglers.

TMC

01-09-2021, 04:34 AM

RetroGuy2000

01-09-2021, 08:32 AM

What about Michael Jacobs and April Kelly then? Boy Meets World (http://www.lanceandeskimo.com/bmw/continuity.shtml) was (https://www.bustle.com/articles/145027-9-plot-holes-from-boy-meets-world-that-will-make-you-question-everything) notorious (https://www.google.com/search?q=boy+meets+world+continuity+site:www.reddit.com&sxsrf=ALeKk02jEvr0owTGA0AhD5h4dcKmyYXKFA:1610180926695&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjclKOxt47uAhUMj1kKHaJoA3kQrQIoBHoECAQQBQ&biw=1600&bih=789) for its own issues (https://boymeetsworld.fandom.com/wiki/Continuity_errors) with continuity (https://www.suggest.com/tv/6921/14-glaring-boy-meets-world-continuity-errors-that-still-bug-us/).

I never watched Boy Meets World, so I can't say.

Yong Fang

01-09-2021, 11:35 AM

A guy named Kurtzman is basically the “show runner” for the new Trek series Discovery and Picard, which in my opinion and the opinion of the majority of Star Trek faithful are not good shows with terrible storylines and mostly terrible characters. Trek nation isn’t feeling the love but watch the dreck out of loyalty to the franchise and the hope that something better comes (and if we don’t watch it, Trek dies).

TMC

01-20-2021, 01:10 AM

John Wells is generally regarded as a good, solid showrunner; but his work on "The West Wing" was clearly a pale comparison to the work Aaron Sorkin had done on that show. I fear anybody who had the task of replacing Sorkin was going to look like an imposter and wells did as fine a job as he could have.

Speaking of which (https://collider.com/tv-showrunner-change/):
Showrunner Swap: Aaron Sorkin to John Wells

Few shows have been more connected to their showrunner than The West Wing. Aaron Sorkin’s crowning television glory, the meticulous creator made his lasting cultural mark with the political drama that was the toast of the early millennium. Intensely hands-on (even to the point of lurking in online forums (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2002/04/confessions_of_a_spoiler_whore.html) and commenting under a pseudonym), Sorkin eventually left the series after four years, leaving the show to John Wells (http://thewestwingweekly.com/episodes/019) (the current showrunner of Shameless) for the last three seasons. For die-hard Sorkin fans, the transition was understandably hard to take (https://www.reddit.com/r/thewestwing/comments/9xogpp/john_wells_and_his_crew_fundamentally/), and the change was certainly felt in the show’s slightly softened writing and use of well-respected Sorkin tropes. But viewed in the style of today’s binge-viewing culture, the show’s transition is less obvious than it might have been at the time of the series airing, making the transition palatable at the very least. (For those that were wondering, no, Sorkin did not watch the new seasons, likening it to watching someone “make out with [your] wife.”)

Verdict: Slightly for the Worse

TMC

01-20-2021, 01:23 AM

I think the late Larry Hagman might have done that on the last two or three seasons' worth of O-R CBS Dallas.

Jerry Seinfeld after (https://uproxx.com/tv/4-ways-seinfeld-changed-post-david/) Larry David stepped down (https://screenrant.com/seinfeld-larry-david-leaving-hurt-show-fans-love-final-seasons/) as the showrunner (https://collider.com/tv-showrunner-change/) for Seinfeld following (https://www.reddit.com/r/seinfeld/comments/7cqm7p/why_did_larry_david_quit_seinfeld_after_the/) the seventh (https://www.reddit.com/r/seinfeld/comments/59qj7g/is_it_my_impression_or_the_show_changed_from_the/) season (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/seinfeld-why-the-show-didnt-open-with-jerrys-stand-up-comedy-after-season-7.html/).

TMC

02-10-2021, 06:03 PM

Charisma's/Cordelia's departure from Angel was handled incredibly badly, both on-camera and off-camera. I can't begin to describe how icky her Season 4 storyline became.

Charisma Carpenter alleges Joss Whedon "abused his power" on the Buffy and Angel sets: "The disturbing incidents triggered a chronic physical condition from which I still suffer" (https://tvline.com/2021/02/10/charisma-carpenter-joss-whedon-toxic-hostile-abuse-allegations/)

In a series of posts (https://forums.superherohype.com/threads/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-and-angel-the-vampire-part-3.499593/page-45) on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CLHjMmghiA9) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/AllCharisma/status/1359537746843365381), Carpenter writes (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/charisma-carpenter-talks-about-joss-whedon-and-his-abuse.4385842/) that she stands with Ray Fisher (https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/lgxi8x/other_charisma_carpenter_from_buffy_the_vampire/), who accused (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/26425182-ray-fisher-says-joss-whedon-was-%E2%80%98abusive%E2%80%99-to-%E2%80%98justice-league%E2%80%99-cast-crew) Whedon (https://screenrant.com/joss-whedon-abuse-misconduct-allegations-accusations-explained/) of “gross, abusive, unprofessional and completely unacceptable” behavior (https://forums.superherohype.com/threads/ray-fisher-wb-investigation-updates-thread.554947/page-36) on the Justice League set. "For nearly two decades, I have held my tongue and even made excuses for certain events that traumatize me to this day. Joss Whedon (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27925888-is-this-it-for-joss-whedon-) abused his power (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/lgx0zq/charisma_carpenter_discusses_joss_whedons_abusive/) on numerous occasions while working on the sets (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/608163/whedon-accused-abuse-buffy-angel) of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (https://dlisted.com/2021/02/10/charisma-carpenter-spoke-out-about-joss-whedons-bullying-on-the-buffy-and-angel-sets/) and Angel (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/89224-angel/?do=findComment&comment=6596707). While he (http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/4050-Charisma-Carpenter-amp-Amber-Benson-Come-Out-Against-Joss-Whedon.) found his misconduct amusing, it only served to intensify my performance anxiety, disempower me, and alienate me from my peers. The disturbing incidents triggered a chronic physical condition from which I still suffer. It is with a beating, heavy heart that I say I coped in isolation and, at times, destructively." Carpenter (https://buffy-boards.com/threads/charisma-opens-up-about-whedon.77447/) went on (https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/120043126.html) to state (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/charisma-carpenter-details-buffy-angel-172616874.html) that " Joss (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/lh1za8/sarah_michelle_gellar_responds_to_joss_whedon/) has a history of being casually cruel. He has created hostile and toxic work environments since his early career. I know because I experienced it first-hand. Repeatedly. Like his ongoing, passive-aggressive threats to fire me, which wreaks havoc on a young actor’s self-esteem. And callously calling me ‘fat’ to colleagues when I was four months pregnant, weighing 126 lbs. He was mean and biting, disparaging about others openly, and often played favorites, putting people against one another to compete and vie for his attention and approval." Whedon has yet to respond to the just-posted allegations.

ALSO:

Buffy alum Amber Benson backs up Charisma Carpenter's allegations (https://twitter.com/amber_benson/status/1359555694098190337): "Buffy was a toxic environment and it starts at the top," Benson tweeted. "@AllCharisma is speaking truth and I support her 100%. There was a lot of damage done during that time and many of us are still processing it twenty plus years later. #IStandWithRayFisher #IStandWithCharismaCarpenter."
Ray Fisher responds by calling Carpenter "one of the bravest people I know" (https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1359562591077621768): "I am forever grateful for her courage and for her lending her voice to the Justice League investigation," he tweeted. "Read her truth. Share her truth. Protect her at all costs. 'It is time.'"

TMC

02-18-2021, 02:39 AM

Look at his name-TMC. That's almost the same as TMZ, as in TMZ.Com. He basically sets
himself up the papparazzi of Sitcoms Online, posting just internet articles most of the time
instead of his own opinion.

TMC just so happens to be my actual initials, which I had long before TMZ was a thing! And what exactly does my username have to do with the topic of "worst showrunners ever"!?

TMC

03-01-2021, 02:11 AM

Craig Thomas and Carter Bays - The series finale (https://www.thewrap.com/met-mother-co-creator-addresses-controversial-finale/) of How I Met Your Mother and how disappointing (https://screenrant.com/how-met-mother-ending-good-reasons-why/) it was has been dissected (https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/how-i-met-your-mother-ending/) and discussed (cartermatt.com/263713/someones-trying-how-i-met-your-mother-spin-off/) to death (https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2552905/how-i-met-your-mothers-ending-the-real-vs-alternate-ending-and-why-it-was-so-divisive). So, I won't try to rehash it too much. I'll just say that it seemed like a tell-tale example of what could happen when showrunners let their egos get in the way. They didn't even understand (https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-i-met-your-mother-finale-review-worst-tv-ending-ever-1442807) why people loved their show.

Simply put, they WANTED to meet the mother and fall in love with her as Ted did. Instead, she's treated like a footnote (https://www.reddit.com/r/HIMYM/comments/376non/rolling_stone_tv_best_and_worst_series_finales/) in the finale so that Ted can go chase (https://www.reddit.com/r/HIMYM/comments/7gtzha/the_himym_betrayal_a_vivisection_of_why_the/) Robin. Many viewers of HIMYM believed that it was obvious by the end of their relationship, that Ted and Robin were just two very different people (https://www.reddit.com/r/HIMYM/comments/3glju9/why_the_ending_isnt_realistic/). And yet, Thomas and Bays (https://www.reddit.com/r/HIMYM/comments/4jba9z/another_failure_for_bays_and_thomas_my_timeyour/) were so fixated on the idea of both of them ending up together.

Then the writers did put Barney and Robin together (which likely wouldn't have happened if the show had ended sooner), and they worked so much better than Ted and Robin ever had. This naturally meant that a good relationship that they spent a lot of time on had to be destroyed to in order to get to the ending that they wanted.

HIMYM was maybe a victim of its own success. It's a perfect example of a show that the writers had to keep developing events they hadn't originally intended. But by getting renewed so many times, the story grew into something the showrunners never originally intended it to be.

So logically, the ending needed to change with it. It actually would have been terrifically easy to change the ending of the show right up until the end. Instead, Carter and Bays stuck with an ending that only worked for the early version of the show, where Ted and Robin didn't seem toxic as a couple, where Barney hadn't grown and become a worthy partner for Robin, and where the audience hadn't met Tracy, the mother. Carter and Bays have only themselves to blame for not sticking the ending.

TMC

03-02-2021, 11:36 PM

On what shows did the lead actor or actress also serve as show runner?

I don't know if she was the out and out showrunner but I believe that Doris Day did manage to secure creative control over her sitcom, The Doris Day Show. This pretty much explained why it was essentially a different show from season to season.

TMC

03-19-2021, 01:21 AM

Mayans M.C. star Clayton Cardenas on Kurt Sutter's exit: "It's like the best thing that could have ever happened for the show" (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/mayans-mc-how-kurt-sutters-sons-of-anarchy-absence-impacted-season-3/1100-6488840/)

"It's night and day," Cardenas tells GameSpot of Sutter, who was fired in 2019 over his abrasive behavior, paving the way for co-creator Elgin James to become sole showrunner. "It's like the best thing that could have ever happened for the show. The environment that we get to work (in), it's such a fun--it's a welcoming, comforting environment. You know, everybody's excited to come to work. I personally feel like I'm at an advantage, finally. I feel like I'm put in the position to succeed. I feel like the writing is meant for me. I feel like I'm not having to force dialogue, you know? I feel like the writing just rolls off my tongue now." Cardenas also points out that the show's new leadership structure under James allows everyone's work to shine. "Elgin is such an amazing creator and writer and, you know, he creates this familial bond on set," Cardenas said. "So again, it makes it welcoming. And everybody's proud of what's being done, everybody feels their voice is heard. And what more could you want? You know, what more could you want from a creator and director?"

factsoflife

03-26-2021, 08:10 PM

Aaron Spelling was credited as an executive producer all of the 10 seasons he was alive right at the end of every episode, along with E. Duke Vincent.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he had much creative influence. He was more of a figurehead by the time the show was up and running. Most of the day to day control was done by Brenda and her team of producers.

Aaron's name (and money) was great for getting a show on air but he rarely had much to do with the day to day, especially by the time the 90's rolled around.

TMC

04-26-2021, 02:50 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

J.J. Abrams (https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/259pc6/why_do_people_hate_jj_abrams_so_much/)

Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa (https://www.reddit.com/r/sabrina/comments/kobeha/roberto_aguirresacasa_is_the_worst_what_do_you/)

Kenya Barris (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/more-money-more-problems-in-kenya-barris-blackaf)

Greg Berlanti (https://www.reddit.com/r/TitansTV/comments/90fsi3/why_is_greg_berlanti_always_involved_with_dc_tv/)

Marc Cherry (https://screenrant.com/desperate-housewives-aged-timeless/)

Lee Daniels (https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/15/star-lee-daniels-tv-drama/)

Caroline Dries (https://www.change.org/p/cw-dear-cw-fire-caroline-dries)

Brad Falchuk and Ian Brennan (https://www.reddit.com/r/glee/comments/lij2o6/i_know_we_like_to_rag_on_ryan_murphy_all_the_time/)

Mark Goffman (https://www.4ye.co.uk/2015/03/sleepy-hollows-showrunner-abandons-the-sinking-ship/)

Alfred Gough and Miles Millar (http://www.ksitetv.com/forums/showthread.php?131585-Alfred-Gough-amp-Miles-Millar-8th-worst-writers-in-Hollywood&)

Todd Helbing (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/chhb76/is_anyone_else_happy_todd_helbing_is_gone/)

Tom Kapinos (https://www.reddit.com/r/californication/comments/24hh8f/ever_since_tom_kapinos_started_writing_every/)

Jenji Kohan (https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-jenji-kohan-needs-to-just-stop)

Tim Kring (https://www.tvfanatic.com/2010/02/this-just-in-tim-kring-has-no-idea-how-to-write-a-tv-show/)

Warren Leight (https://www.reddit.com/r/SVU/comments/bg9ko3/warren_leight_to_return_as_showrunner_for_season/)

John Logan (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/now-that-john-logan-has-proven-himself-what-went-wrong-with-nemesis.193741/)

Ronald D. Moore (http://www.kethinov.com/archived_pages/langy-2005-12-17/index.php%3Ftopic=64.0.html)

Pete Nowalk (https://www.reddit.com/r/htgawm/comments/e1pe6d/what_do_you_think_about_pete_nowalk_and_his/)

Rob Thomas (https://www.reddit.com/r/veronicamars/comments/jh88pq/seems_like_rob_thomas_has_deleted_his_twitter/)

Lizzie Weiss (https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchedAtBirth/comments/7hatwj/emmetts_skin/dqpl8ho/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)

Kevin Williamson (https://tv.avclub.com/stalker-is-as-bad-as-you-imagined-1798181425)

TMC

09-28-2021, 07:14 AM

Examples that would make a bad showrunner a "bad showrunner":

Having a great story/concept (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HighConcept) premise, but getting very ambitious/overwhelmed with certain crazy plots (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KudzuPlot). This ends up being badly executed (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChrisCarterEffect) and causing a major hit on the shows (while alienating the audience (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AudienceAlienatingPremise)/loyal fans along the way). What's followed next is cancellation.

Playing favorites (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreatorsPet) with the actors/actresses at the expense of the storylines.

Being more concerned about making the show cinematic rather than focusing on the plot, character development, and writing.

Subjecting viewers with little more than storylines that were just confusing illogical.

The shows consistently have sloppy writing and bad direction (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13241062210A52045200&page=0).

Has great storylines, but the execution (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13259142840A27737500&page=4) and attention to detail (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail) is rocky.

Being willing to poison (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WriterRevolt) their own show for the sake (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeThatAudience) of "getting back (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PutOnABusToHell) at (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/McLeaned)" an actor or group of fans (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreatorBacklash) that ticked them off (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhyFandomCantHaveNiceThings), or propping up an actor they like.

Being over indulgent to the point of having overblown budgets (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBudgetBeefUp) for their shows.

When they don't get their way (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyWayOrTheHighway) with the network (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExecutiveMeddling) or cable channel, they up and run (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScrewThisImOuttaHere).

Having big ideas that fall apart because they can't plot out the details (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole) and have an ego (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmallNameBigEgo).

Using stereotypes (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Stereotype) and having people saying offensive stuff for shock value (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VulgarHumor).

king of comedy

09-28-2021, 07:49 AM

Seth MacFarland

TMC

09-30-2021, 05:37 AM

Seth MacFarland

If you're basing that strictly or mostly on Family Guy, keep in mind that Seth McFarlane (https://screenrant.com/seth-macfarlane-every-show-movie-ranked-worst-best/) form my understanding, hasn't written (https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/92xjrm/seth_macfarlane_is_an_awful_awful_writer/) for the show since 2010, but he's still credited as an executive producer. So I don't now if he's still the main (https://whatculture.com/film/ranking-seth-macfarlanes-properties-from-worst-to-best) creative force (https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/hating-seth-macfarlane-a-timeline-60469/) or his really a figurehead.

TMC

10-23-2021, 02:34 AM

EP247: The Art of Showrunning (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2021/10/ep247-art-of-showrunning.html)

Ken continues his chat with comedy writer, Dave Hackel. This week they delve into what a showrunner really does. It’s a unique and rigorous responsibility. And Dave is one of the best. They also discuss BECKER, a show Dave created and ran for five years. Lots of great info here.

TMC

11-22-2021, 01:34 AM

On the other side of the coin, are there any shows that managed to continue in their level of quality despite changing showrunners? Of course, usually, there are shows where once the showrunner left, the quality either dropped or shifted to what just did not feel right. But are there any shows that changed showrunners in-between seasons, and yet the transition was seamless?

70s show watcher

11-26-2021, 06:43 AM

TMC

12-28-2021, 12:49 AM

Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa (https://www.reddit.com/r/sabrina/comments/kobeha/roberto_aguirresacasa_is_the_worst_what_do_you/) - According to chatter online (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/rq2f6j/comment/hq7x03z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), he has good ideas (https://www.quora.com/Whats-wrong-with-Riverdale) for potential storylines (https://screenrant.com/riverdale-dropped-storylines/) but they are horribly executed (https://collider.com/riverdale-plot-holes-explained/). His shows (https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueBlood/comments/kbpx95/god_please_no_every_show_roberto_aguirresacasa/) such as Riverdale (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/b8lasl/riverdale_showrunner_roberto_aguirresacasa_signs/) and The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina (https://www.reddit.com/r/sabrina/comments/l9we6o/comment/glkzv7a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in particular, have so much potential but while watching them, you can tell that he’s just making it up as he goes along. And he likely doesn’t even remember what he wrote (https://www.reddit.com/r/riverdale/comments/mf4wkw/riverdale_has_really_bad_and_amateur_writing/) in prior seasons, so there are plot holes (https://screenrant.com/riverdale-plot-holes-fans-find-difficult-to-ignore/).

TMC

01-22-2022, 04:00 AM

I LOVE SLiders but I HATE what David Peckinah did with the series. He was someone who simply didn't care about the show he was running. And it showed.

To describe things in a nutshell, when David Peckinpah (https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=326) took over Sliders (https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=351) for Season 3 (https://earthprime.com/essays/abusing-the-audience/), the show under (https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/cm3yz/sliders_how_to_ruin_a_show_torture_your/) his watch (https://earthprime.com/roulette/by-way-of-consolation-have-a-scone-murder-most-foul/), turned into a brainless 'movie pastiche of the week' series, which led to John Rhys-Davis being fired (https://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-the-sci-fi-fantasy-show-Sliders-How-did-it-begin-going-down-Why) and his character lobotomized/killed off (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125314/http://www.jumptheshark.com/s/sliders.htm).

TMC

01-22-2022, 04:31 AM

TMC

01-24-2022, 03:58 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

In fairness to Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/has-fred-freiberger-been-misblamed-for-season-3-over-the-years.232639/), who is often looked at as the fall guy for drop in quality in the original Star Trek come the third season (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/), he was going in, dealt a severely bad hand (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/fred-freiberger-hack-or-hapless.283204/): a slashed budget, worse timeslot, and the departure of some of the best writers after Season 2. If Freiberger is at any real fault, it's that he really wasn't an ideal fit as the showrunner (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/who-were-considered-the-showrunners-for-each-trek-series.189361/) or line producer for a rather novel production like Star Trek.

In theory, Bob Justman (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/fred-freiberger-vs-bob-justman.263230/), who had been a major producer on the show for its entire run, would've been a better fit to become the showrunner. But it appears that Gene Roddenberry didn't fight hard enough for his promotion. So this ultimately, meant that Roddenberry's series was now being overseen by someone lacking the necessary know how in terms of making stories work.

TMC

01-29-2022, 05:56 AM

king of comedy

01-29-2022, 09:17 AM

How about the showrunner of Blue Bloods?

TMC

02-02-2022, 12:01 AM

TMC

02-02-2022, 12:04 AM

How about the showrunner of Blue Bloods?

What exactly makes the showrunner, I assume in this case, Kevin Wade (https://deadline.com/2013/08/blue-bloods-showrunner-kevin-wade-inks-overall-deal-with-cbs-tv-studios-557184/), bad?

TMC

02-08-2022, 12:28 AM

Why do so many Euphoria fans hate creator Sam Levinson? (https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/euphoria-season-2-sam-levinson-kat-sydney-sweeney.html)

Every Sunday night into Monday morning, the "Euphoria (https://www.primetimer.com/shows/euphoria) creator-writer-director-showrunner-multi-hyphenate" Levinson (https://www.reddit.com/r/euphoria/comments/sczicg/where_did_all_this_sam_levinson_hate_come_from/)'s name trends (https://www.reddit.com/r/euphoria/comments/s6qp1s/why_is_sam_levinson_trendinggetting_so_much_hate/) on Twitter. "They’re not just talking about Levinson in relation to his writing (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/euphoria-would-work-just-as-well-set-in-college.4777327/) for each episode," says Madeline Ducharme. "What they’re saying about him is far more intense: Highly critical fans are mulling over his eternal damnation. They’re bemoaning the sexual interests and escapades of his characters (and accusing him of having non-narrative reasons for including them). They’re even jokingly threatening drastic actions if their favorite characters don’t make it out of this season alive. Scores of viewers like the show enough to spout off hundreds of thousands of tweets and TikToks, fretting over the fates of its (perhaps too many) characters and plot points. But they also find themselves so aggravated with these developments that they take the time to fire digital missives not just at Euphoria the show, but at the man behind Euphoria. And these brassy critiques often move beyond just the show itself, aiming at his entire career. As writer Iana Murray put it in her most recent Euphoria recap for Vulture, Levinson’s writing and “his provocations … are not only a frequent target of criticism but a bona fide meme at this point. How did the Euphoria discourse move beyond all the on-screen teen drama to the off-screen social media drama with a target set on the man who brought the show into existence? I, an ambivalent Euphoria expert, will attempt to explain....For the Euphoria fans online who don’t follow Deuxmoi or read Reddit, their aggravation with Levinson might just be rooted in a general dislike of where the show’s headed this season. Many of the social media complaints about Euphoria center on certain characters and plot-points that have been seemingly abandoned in favor of a shifted focus on characters many fans consider to be loathsome, like Cal and Nate. With a single writer’s name popping up immediately in the credits (and remaining there under the headers 'created by' and 'directed by'), it’s only natural that fans would focus their attention—and frustration—with the show’s disjointed developments wholly on Levinson."

TMC

02-10-2022, 01:53 AM

TMC

02-13-2022, 02:14 AM

On what shows did the lead actor or actress also serve as show runner?

If he counts, Paul Fusco (https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fnoiselesschatter.com%2F+Paul+Fusco&biw=1600&bih=789&sxsrf=APq-WBvXpuUO3455NTxZQbS5FdLFVvG6sQ%3A1644732776674&ei=aKEIYoDFKLCuqtsP9omJsAY&ved=0ahUKEwiAmZ2Hg_z1AhUwl2oFHfZEAmYQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=http%3A%2F%2Fnoiselesschatter.com%2F+Paul+Fusco&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFh6YNEHaABwAHgAgAGUAogBlwSSAQMyLTKYAQCgAQGgAQLAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz) (the man (https://ultimateclassicrock.com/alf-final-episode/) behind the voice of ALF (https://web.archive.org/web/20140407131517/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3128539-hey-willie-alf/?view=getnewpost)) was the showrunner for ALF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fusco#ALF). Now knowing how insanely difficult (https://www.throwbacks.com/alf-behind-the-scenes/) that show (http://noiselesschatter.com/2013/10/17/alf-reviews-a-l-f-season-1-episode-1/) was to make, I do wonder how much that lies on Fusco himself. Fusco for one thing, had some really strange quirks about the fact that he didn't want people to see ALF (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031130402/http://www.jumptheshark.com/a/alf.htm) as a puppet. And the entire set was a death trap (https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/86458/out-world-oral-history-alf) of pits which ALF could pop up through.

Also, if you've ever seen (https://collider.com/alf-blooper-reel-nsfw/) the outtakes (https://www.reddit.com/r/ObscureMedia/comments/bkgyll/alf_bloopers_1980s_a_short_clip_of_outtakes_from/) of ALF on YouTube, of one point, Paul Fusco (through the voice of ALF) made a comment towards the actress who played the daughter (Andrea Elson) that could be considered borderline sexual harassment.

TMC

02-13-2022, 04:01 AM

Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy were Garry Marshall shows with Miller and Boyett just working for him. Cindy Williams was fired? I just assumed she had enough of the show and quit, hadn't heard about her being fired like Valerie Harper. As for Mork and Mindy, the older cast members being dropped came from meddling by ABC themselves, not Miller/Boyett, who at that time were not as powerful as they would be in the TGIF era. Ironically Tom Poston was still made a regular when Mindy's family was dropped because of being too old.

Speaking of Garry Marshall (https://jacksonupperco.com/2021/09/15/a-deliberate-throwback-a-look-at-the-garry-marshall-style-i-of-ii/)...:
On that note, I think you can start to see why I am critical of these Garry Marshall (https://jacksonupperco.com/2021/09/28/a-deliberate-throwback-a-look-at-the-garry-marshall-style-ii-of-ii/) series — and especially his three big ’70s hits, produced with Miller-Milkis (and later Miller-Milkis-Boyett): Happy Days (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125301/http://www.jumptheshark.com/h/happydays.htm), Laverne & Shirley (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125326/http://www.jumptheshark.com/l/laverneandshirley.htm), and Mork & Mindy (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125239/http://www.jumptheshark.com/m/morkandmindy.htm), which I single out because they define Marshall’s ethos at the peak of his success — for not only are they clearly idea-driven shows that root their priorities outside of their characters, they also each undermine the importance of character as a principle by failing to reliably attach the depictions of their leads to the conceptual or idea-led engines determining identity. In other words, they’re idea-driven shows without the kind of support from character that every sitcom requires. (More on that later…) To that end, I think his big three shows, in comparison to their contemporaries, are not aesthetically laudable models of the situation comedy art form, for without the bedrock of strong regulars to sustain the episodic fluctuations of series television, there’s a fundamental lack of consistency as it pertains to each series’ self-made notions of excellence; Happy Days (https://www.google.com/search?q=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Happy+Days&sxsrf=APq-WBus83-igo6ncuyzzXYUKjg9-DKGyQ%3A1644738073545&ei=GbYIYrDJIP2sqtsPucyvuAM&ved=0ahUKEwjwufzklvz1AhV9lmoFHTnmCzcQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Happy+Days&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECdKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFihEGCrFWgAcAF4AIABjQKIAZUPkgEFMC44LjSYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)‘ idea-led construct is built on the nostalgia of its chosen time period, Laverne & Shirley (https://www.google.com/search?q=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Laverne+%26+Shirley&sxsrf=APq-WBvIf2U4lspEfEtmYuyu6x1IPp2k8A%3A1644738000128&ei=0LUIYsKUB7-pqtsPmfmvuAc&ved=0ahUKEwjCvPvBlvz1AhW_lGoFHZn8C3cQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Laverne+%26+Shirley&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjIFCCEQqwI6BAgjECc6BQghEKABOgcIIRAKEKABSgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUABYgSJgzCZoAHABeACAAYcEiAGzGZIBCDAuMTguNS0xmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz) is enamored of its slapstick opportunities, and Mork & Mindy (https://www.google.com/search?q=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Mork+%26+Mindy&sxsrf=APq-WBsIb14pUiqeQYwH0ykxQdNbWwwNPQ%3A1644738015713&ei=37UIYq_xKp-nqtsPo7qjsA8&ved=0ahUKEwjv3LLJlvz1AhWfk2oFHSPdCPYQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=datalounge+Garry+Marshall+Mork+%26+Mindy&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoECCMQJzoFCCEQoAFKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFiAEWCMFWgAcAF4AYABiQSIAZIWkgELMC43LjMuMC4xLjGYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz) has to favor its supernatural premise, which, unlike the other two, is high-concept and thus more expectedly character-suppressing… even though, in all three, character is sidelined for idea-based concerns with a limited amount of novelty… And yet, you may be reading this and thinking what I’m thinking, which is that while all three of these shows might definitely be idea-driven, they actually do have iconic characters, for Fonzie, Laverne & Shirley, and Mork from Ork (hey, even Lenny & Squiggy) are all memorable comic figures, particularly among ’70s sitcoms. This would seem to suggest that, contrary to my criticism, these shows do offer the rich personified tangibles necessary to make for favorable samples of the genre, or at least the idea-driven subcategory. Indeed, comprehending how shows with such strong, memorable leads can still be so fundamentally idea-led, and, more intriguingly, fail to satisfy in comparison to other contemporary idea-led efforts (like those of Norman Lear) — is one of the main reasons I’m interested in discussing them now.

As it turns out, I found some answers to that inquiry in my pre-coverage of Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days, when I decided to vamp with reruns and clip shows, some of which were about Garry Marshall’s previously highlighted sitcom work, for as I attempted to solve why someone who co-wrote (with then-parter Jerry Belson) a handful of supreme episodes of The Dick Van Dyke Show, which I would call the most character-driven sitcom of the 1960s, could then go on to produce a string of classics the following decade that are so far away from that honor, it crystallized a basic approach to character that Marshall maintains throughout his work, hinged around an understanding that star performers need elemental comic personas to stabilize the genre’s need for funny ideas, which, obviously, are always his core concern. This seems like an acknowledgement of what we noted above regarding how a sitcom is different from a sketch show, and the value of creating elemental “givens” to help uphold comic plot — meaning, there’s a recognition of what a sitcom craves in order to be more than just a variety show: character… Well, kinda, for if the focus of Marshall’s conception of character is reserved for star performers, or at least fixated on them, that’s really a throwback to the early days of television situation comedy, and radio before it, where the lines between sitcom and variety show were more blurred. In fact, many of the hosts of the initial TV variety programs, from Milton Berle to Ed Wynn to Red Skelton, have the same kind of rudimentary comic personas that Marshall was trying to cultivate for Joey Bishop and then able to write for Lucille Ball: one anchoring personality providing continuity to otherwise tenuously connected ideas and other interchangeable gimmicks. We’ll talk more about Lucy next time, but we already saw how The Lucy Show, for instance, came to rely on guests, à la a variety series, upon its 1965 reformatting — minimizing its other givens outside of the star, so it became much less a situation comedy than I Love Lucy had been, even when also boasting celebrities. This is because all the leads on I Love Lucy were precisely rendered and used as a vital component of the “situation.” (Also, Lucy Carmichael never had the objective that made Lucy Ricardo so utilizable as a character in plot.)

Ultimately then, this appears to be leading to a debate about whether or not a mere consistency of personality, even alone in a vacuum, can be called an actual character for a situation comedy. I’ll generously say “sometimes,” for all of these determinations are relative; if the elements surrounding sitcom stars are few and/or undefined, the fact that they simply are means they’re providing a dramatic continuity lacking in star-led variety shows, giving personalities more support than they would have as hosts/emcees. So, The Lucy Show is not The Martha Raye Show — not even close — and although this feels like a tangent, I bring up this debate as a way of understanding Marshall’s star-based conception of character, which exists enough so that we can call what he does sitcoms. But not enough that we can call what he does character-driven, as his sensibility is very evocative of the star-dominated idea-driven classics from the ’50s, like Phil Silvers and The Honeymooners, both of which, as we saw, stemmed from a sketch-like pre-sitcom ideology (the latter arising from Jackie Gleason’s variety show). Unsurprisingly, a lot of Marshall’s ’60s sitcom work resides close to that early ’50s variety frame of mind… even, surprisingly, Dick Van Dyke, which is character-driven because of Carl Reiner’s autobiographical attention to detail with its leads and his impenetrable threshold of believability — tenets that force most of the action to be attached to choices/behavior, and funny ideas to be linked to funny characters — but its sense of the funny actually stems from his past in the idea-driven sketch-comedy world (Your Show Of Shows). And this pedigree helps explain why Marshall was able to be such a fit on Dick Van Dyke, for with Reiner’s strong, personal foundation of character making a platform for sketch-like ideas, Marshall was free to go off and deliver some: the crook in the elevator, the intoxicated bride, the Tennessee Williams parody, etc… Never mind that he didn’t have to do any of the character-creating or maintenance himself. (And his attempt at launching his own sitcom, Hey, Landlord!, makes that painfully clear.)

What’s more, his star-dominated ’50’s-esque perception of character shines through on Dick Van Dyke, as he offers bits for headlining personalities — centerpieces done in a spotlight by stars, with little mind for the characterizations underneath (or those surrounding)… Well, okay, I don’t want to undersell his work — “Pink Pills And Purple Parents,” in particular, is one of the funniest Dick Van Dyke episodes of the series, with a great set piece for Mary Tyler Moore that also feels justified by what’s been established of Laura’s depiction, creating more of a backstory that fleshes out both Petries so they feel even more like real people, in turn reaffirming Reiner’s believable ethos and the show’s identity. However, again, it also corroborates Marshall’s values: it’s a routine that needs a star more than it needs a character, and, again, it’s only because of Reiner’s foundation that it becomes anything more. The same can be said for The Odd Couple, which is blessed with Neil Simon’s construction: classic archetypes in opposition. Marshall is not responsible for this design, in which merely juxtaposing such different figures — Type A vs. Type B — as a premise makes for textbook sitcommery. Indeed, The Odd Couple can comfortably claim to be the most character-forward of all Marshall’s produced works, relying on individual characterizations to deliver the laughs and fulfill the series’ promise… But it’s a Marshall show, and while they are the comic focus, he doesn’t let the leads propel story as much as they should — meaning, they’re not involved as much in the regular practice of identity. They’re often put in a plot and then tasked with reacting as their set personas would — in a monastery, on a game show, on a cruise, etc. Accordingly, the storytelling is more idea-based, like his other efforts, and once again, the star-driven perception of character remains, for Oscar and Felix as played by Klugman and Randall have easy-to-read comic personalities, like Lucy, but everyone around them, including the peripheral players, matter far less. Now, perhaps this is an uncharitable reading — I always fear I’m too harsh on The Odd Couple, for the central twosome is strong enough to make the show character-driven in terms of humor…

…You just wouldn’t know it by the stories that are utilized. And this is the crux of my criticism, for strong characters are supposed to help a show be a situation comedy, and in terms of story — the weekly projection of the show’s identity — it doesn’t feel like The Odd Couple’s leads are being maximized, certainly not in comparison to those on its other character-rich contemporaries (like at MTM). In this regard, even Marshall’s character-driven show behaves like it’s idea-driven…. However, this talk of strong characters not revealing their strength brings us back to Fonzie, Laverne & Shirley, and Mork: great, larger-than-life, now-iconic figures… who don’t actually drive plot (even less than The Odd Couple). Usually, they’re applied to some generic story construct, with the guiding idea determining whether or not it’s a success: does it reinforce the ’50s nostalgia, does it yield a big slapstick crescendo, does it honor the high-concept alien premise? In these three shows — singled out from the duds because they’re more visibly influential — Marshall continues practicing the principles we saw in the sitcoms featured previously in our “clip show” posts: he knows the value of star personas… but his writing is nevertheless idea-driven, and it’s obvious that he’s never truly been responsible for creating a sitcom with a foundation where character, beyond the ’50s’ rudimentary star-driven understanding of it, is king. And it’s a shame because character is the most important continuity-providing narrative suggestion — the primary reason a situation comedy is a situation comedy. This is also why, to date, I have shunned most of Garry Marshall’s produced sitcoms, especially those from Miller-Milkis, where this unideal aesthetic seems, frankly, deliberate — a reaction against the popular sitcoms of the early ’70s, specifically the entries from both MTM and Norman Lear: two stylistic polarities — one character-driven, the other idea-driven — that we’ve discussed a lot because they define the decade’s comprehension of these two divergent aesthetics… even though they also share something big: an elevated realism corroborated in large part by low-concept premises that naturally push their leads to the fore (even when, as in the case of Lear’s shows, said characters are only in service of something else).

Now, our recent Barney Miller coverage has revealed that realism for its own sake is not always of service to the genre — when it infringes upon the basic comic objective, it’s harmful. But a commitment to suggested reality typically begets an attention to detail and an increased continuity, both of which benefit characters by encouraging more consistent and believable depictions — and this can focus comedy and inspire story, along with securing the audience’s investment. (To wit, I Love Lucy provided an emotional constancy that made the characters identifiable and capable of propelling comedic plot, earning the big-idea shtick.) So, when “realism” is weighted appropriately within structurally low-concept designs that emphasize fixed elements — because there are few high-concept needs that must also be featured — character is then able to be a seminal attraction. Interestingly, with the exception of Mork & Mindy (https://web.archive.org/web/20140405003322/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3166401-mork-and-mindy/?view=getnewpost) — which I’m mostly setting aside for this essay because it boasts a high-concept supernatural premise and a dominating star that crowds out commendable character work, reiterating everything we’re discussing… but without the complicated potential for character in Happy Days (https://web.archive.org/web/20140331134134/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3116785-happy-days-where-the-shark-was-first-jumped/?view=getnewpost) and Laverne & Shirley (https://web.archive.org/web/20140402224659/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3053535-laverne-shirley/?view=getnewpost) — Marshall upholds the early ’70s’ fondness for low-concept designs. It’s their elevated realism that he’s less concerned with pursuing. And I have to clarify first that there are two ways of thinking about realism — the literal way, and the aesthetic way. With the literal way, we’re referring to shows that stick to the same standards of truth that we accept in our everyday lives; think: Barney Miller, which avoided the process of defining its leads in ways that would serve the genre’s comedic demand, purposely downplaying them to instead prioritize a true-to-life textuality above all else. The other way to think of realism is the aesthetic way, or realism as it applies to the art form. And in this context, that refers to a show’s internally created standards of acceptable truth, which are solid and easily understood… but give more room for sanctioned comedy. This is not realism by the terms of our world, but the show’s — implied and honored by its characters, and echoed in story, with any breaches accordingly discordant.

I care more about aesthetic realism because it gives each show more leeway to create its own individual ideas of what’s permissible and what’s not, and therefore what is fair to expect. For instance, a supernatural sitcom like Bewitched is not going to be literally realistic, but with consistent, believable characters, and explanations for the things that to us would seem absurd (witchcraft), it creates its own brand of truth that we can assume will be maintained every week. So, while the more literal realism of MTM and Lear typically forces more precise character work, via details and continuity, literal realism is by no means a necessity. It just so happens, in this case, that Marshall not only moves away from MTM/Lear’s literal realism, he also doesn’t have much internally rendered aesthetic realism in its place. To wit, the proverbial “jump the shark” moment, which comes from Happy Days‘ extended fifth season premiere, is one of these perceived breaches — it’s an unbuyable development, not merely by our world’s rules, but even by those of the show, which had heretofore not presented itself as willing to bend the laws of physics for such a cheeky sight gag. An even better example is Mork, an alien whose very presence damages Happy Days’ credibility, as the show’s use of a fantastical creature is so at odds with everything we’d seen prior. Once something like Mork appears without warning, it’s a sad indication that realism, both literal and aesthetic, just isn’t a big concern to Marshall or Happy Days, and when the maintenance of internally established truth no longer matters, then it’s hard for the maintenance of any cultivated given, like character, to matter either… Now, sure, this lazy kind of attitude creeps into most long-running series eventually, but seldom so early and to this extent. Also, MTM’s and Lear’s best efforts tend to be more consistent about what they won’t accept. (There are no alien friends on Rhoda or Good Times.) And though they do veer closer to our external notions of reality, you can similarly look to broader shows from later in the decade, like Soap and Taxi and WKRP, to see decent benchmarks of internally created realism that aren’t as “traditionally” logical as their early ’70s predecessors — they’ll offer crazier stories, with crazier people — but can still remain believable, because they’re true to both the premised givens and the various guidelines they’ve implied.

Of course, the broadening that those last three shows enjoy all come within a trend that Garry Marshall helped usher in — a desire for a deliberately sillier, less “important” comedy: a push obviously reacting to what was crowding the airwaves in the first trimester of the decade, like on the socially self-righteous All In The Family and the overly sincere Mary Tyler Moore, which were topical, real, and fairly serious. Some called it “modern.” To that point, the use of nostalgia on Happy Days, which Marshall first developed in 1971 — All In The Family‘s breakout year — is often cited as the main reason why Marshall’s shows with Miller-Milkis were unlike the contemporary and more realistic material of Lear and MTM. But while the results do prove, I think, that Garry Marshall was consciously creating his own counterculture against the ’70s’ counterculture — setting a show in the ’50s so he didn’t have to address both the social commentary of Lear and MTM or write in their more realistic, modern style — the nostalgia is more of an excuse for doing so than a premised requirement. That is, he could have produced a period piece that adhered more to the standards being set by MTM and Lear. He deliberately chose otherwise — and not for the first time. Let’s look at The Odd Couple, which premiered in 1970 and claimed a late ’60s socially relevant concept attached to growing divorce rates. It’s actually set in the present and, by virtue of Simon’s premise, easily the closest to Lear and MTM’s very current and realistic offerings. However, it still totally reinforces Marshall’s goofier, idea-led sensibilities, undermining character and their created logic for narrative gimmicks (like Password). The next two shows Marshall created, Me And The Chimp and The Brian Keith Show (initially known as The Little People) — are similarly idea-led, realism-subjugating fare, the former focused on a noxious gimmick with a literal chimp, and the latter a tonal and narrative throwback to the family warmedies of the ’60s. They’re both set in the present day… but choose to ignore what MTM and Lear were asserting as the era’s new normal.

These other outings prove that Marshall’s non-“modern” rebuttal was not confined to shows set in the past, but in all of his ’70s work. So, we can’t blame Happy Days’ nostalgia for this rejection of his contemporaries’ thoughts on realism, and collaterally, character. Additionally, the wave of ’50s/’60s nostalgia that we noted with both Grease and American Graffiti reveal that there absolutely could be material that was just as socially critical and more cynically realistic about the era than Happy Days — see more on Grease, and its origins here — and this again implies that his show’s diminished realism, and diminished character as a result of a blatant disregard for consistency via a maintained set of internal guidelines for dramatic truth, was more than just a byproduct of the idea-led gimmick of setting the show as a nostalgic period piece. This “old-fashioned” aesthetic was a certainty, with nostalgia being a hook that seemed to allow it, for if the nostalgia didn’t necessarily create Marshall’s style, it certainly justified it to audiences, as setting the show in the ’50s appeared to instill a higher tolerance for hokier, less honest or believable fare — more in line with the comedy that was being produced and consumed in that era, prior to the counterculture that Marshall was avoiding as part of his own counterculture. In contrast, Me And The Chimp is almost as low-concept as Happy Days… but it doesn’t have the nostalgia to prop up its silly gimmickry — the chimp — and give an implicit excuse for it. Okay, that’s not exactly a fair comparison — Me And The Chimp (https://jacksonupperco.com/2021/08/25/me-and-the-gimmick/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=48620&relatedposts_position=2&relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=48620&relatedposts_position=2), as we’ve seen, is particularly bad… to a degree that Happy Days, for most of its run, isn’t. (Me And The Chimp (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031141207/http://www.jumptheshark.com/m/meandthechimp.htm) is a nonstarter. More here.) But if that primate sitcom was produced in the early ’70s, and just set prior to the counterculture, as, say, a ’60s period piece, thereby granting it the same license to embrace earlier standards of realism (think: Mister Ed’s), would it have worked? Okay, still probably not. But I think we’d dismiss it as more of a deliberate throwback than an unconscious regression.

To that point, this is how I see Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley: deliberate throwbacks as opposed to unconscious regressions… for they came at a time when the public was craving a swing back to the stuff from which Lear and MTM had swung a few years prior. (Popular tastes are cyclical and correlated to the culture at large!) This opened the door for fare that broadened the genre again, so it wasn’t so urgently serious. These new shows were just going to be plain fun — and Marshall used nostalgia as the vessel to carry out Happy Days’, if not Laverne & Shirley’s, shift towards this comfort. This enabled him to intentionally offer material with which he was more comfortable… And yet, even with his admittedly regressive ethos that didn’t conceive of character beyond elementary star personas, the genre itself wasn’t regressing. It had no choice but to progress, as popular tastes made others accept his ideas, folding them into the mainstream so that the trendsetters of the early ’70s — namely MTM and Lear — were put on defense, forced to adapt to the times instead of continuing to lead them. That Marshall’s work, and a lot of what he inspired, made for a comparatively less ideal sitcommery — based on how we’ve defined it above — is perhaps unfortunate, but it’s not surprising, given his earlier efforts. And the alternative he provided proved truly popular with many viewers, ensuring that, again, the genre couldn’t really be seen as abandoning the elevated character work of the early ’70s, but reconciling itself towards something more familiar, in accordance with how the times kept changing. In this regard, I do look to MTM and Lear as being more artistically noble, but Marshall’s work to be the natural progression from them — an inevitable course correction that validates the boldness of their aesthetic choices. As such, I’m glad I was asked to grapple with them here on this blog, for Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley give context to both All In The Family and Mary Tyler Moore — and vice versa… So, with all that said, I think that’s where we’ll stop for now. In the second half of this essay, we’ll dig more into Happy Days‘ trajectory, its corresponding character work, and how it compares to its “deliberate throwback” sibling, Laverne & Shirley — seasonal coverage of which will follow; stay tuned…

TMC

02-16-2022, 06:48 AM

Tim Kring (https://www.tvfanatic.com/2010/02/this-just-in-tim-kring-has-no-idea-how-to-write-a-tv-show/) - This is basically a perfect summarization (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21691053-tv-series-that-took-nosedives-after-great-first-seasons) of his work:
Regarding the whole Heroes (https://cultural-learnings.com/2008/11/22/cultural-flashback-tim-kring-and-the-fall-of-heroes/) debacle (https://www.reddit.com/r/Heroes/comments/44t9q6/rip_heroes_you_were_good_once_spoilers/), no, the writer's strike (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1q6kvf/why_did_heroes_go_downhill/) had nothing to do with why the show tanked after season one. It had everything to do with Tim Kring (https://cultural-learnings.com/2008/11/22/cultural-flashback-tim-kring-and-the-fall-of-heroes/).

Tim Kring (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/40tgel/comment/cyx022a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) is a hack writer (https://www.sliceofscifi.com/2008/11/24/kring-offers-an-apology/) who has been able to con network suits into greenlighting shows that are basically rip offs of preexisting IPs. What he does is present himself as some kind of visionary writer/showrunner a la Bryan Fuller and Joss Whedon with a "grand vision." He shoots an amazing, jaw dropping pilot guaranteed to blow them away and make it look like he's got the show all planned out with years of well thought out arcs and themes in the making. But the reality is that he has nothing. After the show is greenlit, he and his team of writers just piece together episodes by lifting bits and pieces of characters, subplots, scenes and story ideas from other IPs.

In the case of Heroes (https://justtv.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/heroes-lack-of-self-awareness/), he pitched a show idea based on the X-Men franchise but sold it as this one of a kind, original concept about ordinary people developing superpowers. Then he and his writing stuff wrote episodes via good old-fashioned plagiarism. Yes, the show was amazing the first season, but that was only because the writing was based on good source material. For example, the whole Peter Petrelli subplot about him threatening to blow up NYC is one of the major plot lines of the manga, Akira. (In the manga, a bunch of kids and teens start developing telekinesis out of the blue. The youngest one, Akira, has the power to detonate like a nuclear bomb, and so race to keep him from blowing up "Neo Tokyo". Sound familiar?)

Kring (https://deardarkness.tumblr.com/post/77569248260/a-long-rant-about-nbc-decision-to-bring-heroes) and his hack staff did a good job (https://www.resetera.com/threads/heroes.131969/post-23183059) faking their way through the first season (https://junkee.com/heroes-nbc-season-1/251473) for viewers (https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/tim-kring-blames-fans-for-heroes-sucking/48975/45) completely unfamiliar with comic book or manga lore. The problem is that as good as they were "adapting" all these old stories and characters, they could only keep up (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/Heroes) the momentum for so long before exhausting (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChrisCarterEffect) the source material they were ripping off. So that's what happened (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SeasonalRot/LiveActionTV). Heroes exhausted the Akira story arc and the multiple other story arcs from other sources.

The same thing happened with Kring's other show, Touch. It was a rip off (https://www.sliceofscifi.com/2008/11/24/kring-offers-an-apology/) of the movie, Knowing. It started off strong because it sourced the movie, as well as other movies and TV shows. Then it completely ran off the rails mid-season, relying on the same we-are-all-connected formula over and over again. It ran so far off the rails in season one that it had to be completely rebooted from the ground up in season two (even going so far as to fire the lead actress and bring in Lukas Haas), but by then it was too little, too late.

king of comedy

02-16-2022, 08:40 AM

TMC

02-18-2022, 06:26 AM

That's a great article on Garry Marshall. Happy Days started out fine in the first two seasons than it went downhill after that. It was grounded in the beginning but it became more unrealistic when Mork arrived.

Well, it has in the past, been written that Garry Marshall (https://jacksonupperco.com/2021/09/28/a-deliberate-throwback-a-look-at-the-garry-marshall-style-ii-of-ii/) sold Happy Days out (https://www.avclub.com/happy-days-became-one-of-the-biggest-hits-on-tv-by-sell-1798233067) as a guaranteed means of getting the show higher ratings. Basically, when Happy Days switched from being a single-camera show to a multi-camera one with a live studio audience, the quality declined badly (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/05/entrance-applause.html?showComment=1590631328831#c2384911286719787454). And once Fonzie hit it big, it especially got completely dumbed down (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/top-stupid-things-about-the-happy-days-tv-series-1974-1984.943102/). The actors were all but reduced to reiterating catch phrases (https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/68870/11-perfectamundo-phrases-happy-days) and mugging their lines for the audience that screamed their heads off every time someone new entered the room. And that seemed to become a Garry Marshall trademark for his series.

TMC

02-19-2022, 01:44 AM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

Marc Cherry is also you can argue, a lazy showrunner. From watching the first (https://thetelevixen.com/pilot-perception-devious-maids/) episode of Devious Maids (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2226342/reviews), it's astonishing how similar (https://www.reddit.com/r/JaneTheVirginCW/comments/ih4yob/similarities_to_desperate_housewives_and_devious/) it was to Desperate Housewives (https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2013/06/20/devious-maids-too-familiar/fHoB4cu9b8qYICze4UcdXN/story.html) right down to the musical cues. While this may have changed over the run over the show, they still had recycled (https://moviechat.org/tt2226342/Devious-Maids/58c85deab591530ffd7165dd/Recycled-story-lines-from-Desperate-Housewives) storylines, actors (https://www.reddit.com/r/DesperateHousewives/comments/flmhcq/devious_maids/), and character names too.

You can also add (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2019/07/has-it-really-been-ten-years.html?showComment=1563285211504#c3447007261445435817) Welcome Back Kotter's (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125256/http://www.jumptheshark.com/w/welcomebackkotter.htm) James Komack (http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20072119,00.html) to the worst (https://www.avclub.com/70s-sitcoms-1798221845) showrunner (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-278239.html) ever list.

People, 11/6/78

By then Kotter (https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0072582/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_trv) had become less a set than a civil war (https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/58390-behind-the-scenes-feuds-drama-tv%E2%80%99s-most-dysfunctional-sets/). The cast Softball team had long since hung up its gloves and, more significantly, the feud spread to the Sweathogs, who, willingly or not, are lining up in rival camps. John (“Barbarino”) Travolta and Lawrence-Hilton (“Boom Boom”) Jacobs remain pretty much above the battle. Still close to both, Travolta goes to movies occasionally with Gabe (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/13914450-why-did-gabe-kaplan-leave-welcome-back-kotter-) and dines weekly with Strassman; Jacobs continues to hang out with Kaplan but no longer meets Strassman after-hours. Robert (“Epstein”) Hegyes is on the Kaplan side, but he’s stopped seeing him socially (and is also less tight with Travolta these days). Marcia’s main ally, Ron (“Horshack”) Palillo, barely talks to Gabe and sees none of the others outside work. The one vestigial source of Kotter cast unity is that virtually nobody can stand executive producer James Komack (https://ew.com/article/1995/06/30/welcome-back-kotter/).

TMC

03-03-2022, 06:37 AM

TMC

03-16-2022, 02:06 AM

Haim Saban (https://www.reddit.com/r/powerrangers/comments/allvp3/community_opinion_on_haim_saban/) - I'm not going to go into full detail, but the gist of his issue is that he underpaid (https://www.quora.com/Why-were-the-Power-Rangers-actors-paid-so-badly) the young actors (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/the-real-reason-the-original-power-rangers-were-replaced.4670600/) in the Power Rangers (https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/neardeath-homophobia-and-pay-disputes-trouble-on-the-power-rangers-set/news-story/0a1728f83cce0162b0d1b5173766a282) franchise (https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2020/06/the-true-stories-behind-mighty-morphin-power-rangers-the-movie/). They had to work (https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/acro03/til_that_despite_power_rangers_making_saban/) 6 days a week all year, only being allowed 2 or 3 weeks off a year and were paid like $650 (https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/lqxnef/til_that_despite_the_success_of_power_rangers_the/) a week or something. They also had to do conventions and meet and greets, etc. Also, Saban had little to no use for unionized (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-jan-31-fi-13913-story.html) actors (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1998/01/31/actors-guild-faces-off-against-power-rangers/ee29b81c-c12c-496a-bccf-8812c6069b26/) and crews. To make a long story short, Saban (https://www.reddit.com/r/powerrangers/comments/p0nm7h/thoughts_on_haim_saban/) was a notorious cheap skate (https://www.quora.com/If-Power-Rangers-paid-its-talent-so-poorly-why-did-Jason-David-Frank-stick-around-so-long-Did-he-actually-get-paid-decently), who had little qualms (https://www.reddit.com/r/powerrangers/comments/g8yts0/original_mmpr_cast_photos/) at replacing (https://www.reddit.com/r/powerrangers/comments/m6meer/was_it_a_mistake_for_the_actors_of_jason_trini/) actors rather than giving them raises (https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/lqxnef/til_that_despite_the_success_of_power_rangers_the/) and better working conditions.

TMC

03-17-2022, 03:27 AM

I've never believed that Joss Whedon was a bad showrunner, even though he made some missteps.

Marti Noxon never should have been tapped to be an executive producer on BtVS; she only ever wrote a couple of good episodes, and didn't seem to have the ability to provide much continuity between episodes, leading to an uneven feeling to Season 6.

Sarah Michelle Gellar admits there were conflicts -- including with Alyson Hannigan -- on the Buffy set, blames Joss Whedon's leadership (https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/03/16/sarah-michelle-gellar-alyson-hannigan-feud-buffy-set-new-book/)

In Evan Ross Katz’s new Buffy the Vampire Slayer tell-all book Into Every Generation a Slayer Is Born: How Buffy Staked Our Hearts, Gellar spoke frankly about the tension that arose on set over the years and how she looks back on it now. “I think that unfortunately the set we were on and the world we were in was pitting us against each other,” Gellar said in the book when asked about feuds between co-stars. “I think it would have been different if it was today. It would have been a very different relationship. But we have a great relationship now. Look, we worked really hard hours. We were young, we had ups and downs. Everybody had arguments. There were times where David (Boreanaz) could be a handful. He never really was to me, but I’m sure (he was). And I’m sure I was the same way to people also, right? It wasn’t rosy. Nobody gets along all the time. And Alyson (Hannigan) and I had moments. There’s no question. But you’re young.” Also, in the book, Nicholas Brendan questions why Angel got a spinoff. "It was weird that Angel got a spin-off," he said. "Because how does the most boring character in TV history get a spin-off?” (https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/03/16/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-nicholas-brendon-shades-david-boreanaz-angel/)

TMC

03-26-2022, 07:16 AM

I meant for the longest time to add the showrunners (https://deadline.com/2018/03/american-housewife-rick-wiener-kenny-schwartz-new-overall-deal-abc-studios-1202337682/) for American Housewife (https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/2534-american-housewife/), Rick Wiener and Kenny Schwartz, based on how the show (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/AmericanHousewife) went off the rails (https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanHousewife/comments/k6rdrm/im_going_to_be_honest_i_think_this_show_has_taken/) at least, backstage wise in its final (https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanHousewife/comments/ncybst/why_was_ah_cancelled/) season (https://watercoolerhq.co/2021/05/american-housewife-and-its-fans-deserved-more/):
Hostility on the Set: (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HostilityOnTheSet) Carly Hughes, who plays Angela, exited (https://deadline.com/2020/11/american-housewife-carly-hughes-exits-abc-comedy-toxic-environment-investigation-positive-changes-1234610754/) the show after (https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanHousewife/comments/jr33wx/american_housewife_costar_carly_hughes_exits/) season 4 because of, in her words, the "toxic (https://tvline.com/2020/11/09/american-housewife-carly-hughes-leaving-toxic-discrimination-angela/) environment (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8931025/Carly-Hughes-leaves-American-Housewife-discrimination-toxic-work-environment.html)" and "discrimination" (http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2020/11/does-american-housewife-have-diversity.html) that existed on the set. (Her appearance in the season 5 premiere had already been filmed before the COVID shutdown.) In the wake of her departure, a probe was launched which resulted in the show's creator Sarah Dunn stepping down from an active production role, the line producer being fired, and the showrunners having to undergo sensitivity training, a chain of events which could’ve possibly led to the show being cancelled following the conclusion of the fifth season.

There is also a "blind item" (http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2020/SEPTEMBER.html) on CDAN (https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2020/09/blind-item-6_16.html) alleges that the true reason behind Julia Butters' (the original Anna-Katt Otto (https://americanhousewife.fandom.com/wiki/Anna-Kat_Otto)) abrupt departure after Season 4 was due to complaints (https://www.foxella.com/she-quit-a-really-good-gig-because-the-complaints-filed-against-an-older-actor/) that she filed against an older actor never being acted on by producers or the network.

TMC

03-28-2022, 03:55 AM

TMC

04-12-2022, 04:34 AM

TMC

04-16-2022, 03:37 AM

TMC

04-23-2022, 10:25 PM

TMC

04-25-2022, 05:12 AM

You can now also add Extra (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=413239)'s Lisa Gregorisch-Dempsey (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w5kjJLRwsmsJ:https://www.thedailybeast.com/extra-boss-lisa-gregorisch-dempsey-runs-show-like-mafia-threatened-mario-lopez+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) to this list in regards to infotainment shows.

You can also (https://www.thewrap.com/david-hollander-out-american-gigolo-showrunner/) now (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/american-gigolo-showrunner-david-hollander-fired-showtime-1235134415/) add (https://collider.com/american-gigolo-series-showrunner-david-hollander-exits/) David Hollander (https://deadline.com/2022/04/david-hollander-out-showrunner-american-gigolo-showtime-series-investigation-misconduct-1235008673/) to the list (https://www.thedailybeast.com/american-gigolo-showrunner-david-hollander-ousted-by-showtime-after-misconduct-claim).

TMC

04-25-2022, 06:05 AM

TMC

05-06-2022, 08:32 PM

TV is facing a showrunner crisis amid the slew of streaming-era shows (https://www.vice.com/en/article/epxeze/television-is-in-a-showrunning-crisis)

There aren't enough TV writers with enough experience to serve as showrunners these days, and the explosion of new shows plus COVID have set up new showrunners to fail. As Vice's Katharine Trendacosta -- who spent three years looking into TV's showrunner crisis (https://twitter.com/k_trendacosta/status/1522244258186493953) and spoke to everybody from Damon Lindelof to Steven Canals to Michael Schur to Jen Statsky (https://twitter.com/k_trendacosta/status/1522247240768626688) -- explains: In the old days of network TV, "the training came through mentoring and experience. When television consisted of 20-22 episodes a year, most being written around the same time other episodes were being filmed, even junior writers could watch their script go from their hands to the screen, and all the parts in between. Good showrunners would make sure writers were on set for their specific scripts. (They were under contract for that same period, anyway.) Writers moved up the writer ranks, and by the time they were pitching their own shows, they would have seen at least 50 episodes of television be made. A lot has changed in the last few decades. Some of it is good—when there were only a few opportunities on a few channels, they overwhelmingly went to straight, white men. That, slowly, has changed, and is changing. Writers’ rooms are more diverse than ever. But the hunger for content brought on by the explosion of streaming has stretched the old, ad hoc training system to its breaking point. There simply are not enough experienced showrunners to head all the shows being made. Moreover, shorter episode orders and script writing for a whole season finishing before production has begun has robbed new writers of concrete experience they would have gotten even a few years ago. When those writers go on to pitch their shows, there’s a chance they’ve never seen one of their scripts actually get filmed. And, again, there aren’t enough experienced showrunners to pair with them. Then there’s the other change that keeps writers from seeking the help they need: the rise of the idea of 'showrunner' in the public consciousness, even as the industry itself is losing a grip on what the job means, and once did. What was once an inside-baseball term for a job that encompassed everything from writing a pilot to making sure everyone was fed on set has, as TV has entered its 'auteur' phase, taken on a more mystical air."

TMC

05-10-2022, 09:26 PM

How about the showrunner of Blue Bloods?

It has been said (https://www.city-data.com/forum/tv/2969988-blue-bloods-season-9-starts-tonight-33.html) that the Blue Bloods producers are notorious for being cheap. That's why Danny' wife (https://www.reddit.com/r/bluebloods/comments/73delu/amy_carlson_leaves_blue_bloods_after_seven_seasons/) was killed off. It's why Jackie (Jennifer Esposito (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jennifer-esposito-leaves-blue-bloods-381475/)) was written off. And if you look at the opening credits, most of the actors are not leads. Only the top five Reagan family members (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Blue_Bloods_characters) get lead actor pay (Frank, Danny, Erin, Pops, Jamie). All the rest--Anthony, Garrett, Eddie, Diaz, etc., all get paid as recurring actors. Which is a HUGE step down in pay. In any other show, they would be leads.

icecream

05-10-2022, 09:47 PM

Linda didn't add much to Blue Bloods, usually was just in family dinners. Not a big loss like Anthony or Eddie would be. And I am glad Jennifer Esposito left, Marisa Ramirez is more interesting as Danny's partner. I definitely wouldn't consider Garrett a lead either, he is just a supporting character. No show has NINE actors who get equal pay all as leads. That just isn't realistic.

TMC

05-11-2022, 09:06 PM

Cynthia Cidre (https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-TV-shows-that-were-so-awful-that-they-may-have-killed-genres-or-trends-Or-at-the-very-least-they-stopped-the-momentum-of-a-fad-or-signaled-the-end-of-an-entire-movement-in-the-industry/answer/Russell-Spear) based on her work (https://moviechat.org/tt1723760/Dallas/58c857a7b591530ffd6ddde3/Let-the-attacks-on-Cidre-begin) as showrunner (https://moviechat.org/tt1723760/Dallas/58c857a4b591530ffd6ddcbc/Cidre-Out-as-Showrunner-of-Blood-and-Oil) for the 2012 (https://tellytalk.net/threads/tnt-dallas-a-caricature-of-the-original.6015/page-4) revival (http://tellytalk.net/threads/tnt-revived-dallas-for-a-2012%E2%80%9314-series-would-you-revisit-it-again.10428/page-2) of Dallas (https://www.google.com/search?q=Cynthia+Cidre+Dallas+datalounge&sxsrf=APq-WBsJmgeFuYGn41XnamHQ8a-G7j4Y9w%3A1644472207269&ei=j6cEYveGEICFwbkPx4mC4A4&ved=0ahUKEwi3ioeuuPT1AhWAQjABHceEAOwQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Cynthia+Cidre+Dallas+datalounge&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgjELACECdKBAhBGAFKBAhGGABQ1wRYnQtg1A1oAXAAeAKAAfECiAHnCZIBBzAuNC4xLjGYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz). She basically turned (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=4940369&postcount=4) the show (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/22961288-dallas-1978-1991-) about (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/tnt-cancels-dallas.774772/post-19525592) the Ewing (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/tnt-cancels-dallas.774772/post-19583164) family into something more closely resembling a crime show/telenovela (https://www.ocregister.com/2007/09/21/cane-tries-to-shake-off-categorization/) about a Mexican (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=4943068&postcount=21) drug cartel (https://moviechat.org/tt1723760/Dallas/58c857a6b591530ffd6ddd55/Ewings-and-the-Drug-cartel).

For what it's worth, Cynthia Cidre complained that what really killed Dallas was that TNT split the seasons and that they ran it during the FALL when it would compete with network premieres.

But then again, we're also dealing with a showrunner who for by all accounts, had no history with the past Dallas and ignored history. For one thing, the Southfork (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southfork_Ranch) interior looked like a cookie-cutter suburban house on the revival, not a grand mansion. And the revival claimed that Miss Ellie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Ellie_Ewing) checked into a psych ward.

There were also some boneheaded plots: Christopher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Ewing) is seduced by and impregnates his own cousin (we're supposed to be believe that he didn't recognize her); a long-drawn out mystery about Pam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Ewing) that ends in the reveal that she's actually really dead, which only burned fans hoping Victoria Principal might be returning and advanced exactly nothing about the plot.

All in all, Cidre turned a story about the Ewings of Dallas into a telenovela about Mexican drug cartels, which had been the premise of an early Cidre drama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_(TV_series)) that failed. She clearly wanted to use Dallas as a vehicle to revive her prior series and it was obvious. And she actually had the nerve to kill off a legacy character like Christopher Ewing in the final episode.

Mr. Television

05-12-2022, 08:37 PM

For what it's worth, Cynthia Cidre complained that what really killed Dallas was that TNT split the seasons and that they ran it during the FALL when it would compete with network premieres.

But then again, we're also dealing with a showrunner who for by all accounts, had no history with the past Dallas and ignored history. For one thing, the Southfork (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southfork_Ranch) interior looked like a cookie-cutter suburban house on the revival, not a grand mansion. And the revival claimed that Miss Ellie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Ellie_Ewing) checked into a psych ward.

There were also some boneheaded plots: Christopher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Ewing) is seduced by and impregnates his own cousin (we're supposed to be believe that he didn't recognize her); a long-drawn out mystery about Pam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Ewing) that ends in the reveal that she's actually really dead, which only burned fans hoping Victoria Principal might be returning and advanced exactly nothing about the plot.

All in all, Cidre turned a story about the Ewings of Dallas into a telenovela about Mexican drug cartels, which had been the premise of an early Cidre drama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_(TV_series)) that failed. She clearly wanted to use Dallas as a vehicle to revive her prior series and it was obvious. And she actually had the nerve to kill off a legacy character like Christopher Ewing in the final episode.
Cidre ruined the show. Other than giving JR a proper funeral and finally explaining how Pam died the rest of the series was terrible. She made Cliff into a monster. If she wants us to not count the reunion movies as cannon, I'd rather just forget this TNT joke of a show.

icecream

05-12-2022, 09:14 PM

United States of Al had to have changed showrunners. Last several episodes have been bloody awful, far cry from the clean and funny show it usually was. Whoever the current showrunner is should never be hired again. :mad:

TMC

05-14-2022, 06:56 AM

TMC

05-15-2022, 06:04 AM

TMC

05-19-2022, 04:44 AM

Ken Levine in his recent blog post (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2022/04/friday-questions_01037881874.html) noted that if you were a writer, then the likes of Roseanne Barr, Bill Cosby, Kevin James, Cybill Shepherd, Brett Butler were nightmares. They thought nothing of just throwing whole scripts out, belittling the writers, and just being generally reprehensible. And none of them were worth it.

More from (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2022/05/ep275-what-it-takes-to-be-showrunner.html) Ken Levine:
Television is facing a shortage of qualified showrunners. Ken discusses why and offers advice on how to be an effective showrunner. This is a must episode for anyone in TV. More podcasts at WAVE:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/artist/wave-podcast-network/1437831426

TMC

05-21-2022, 03:49 AM

Carol Black and Neal Marlens on practically any show (https://web.archive.org/web/20200322074642/https://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/10/archives/television-the-short-life-and-unhappy-death-of-laurie-hill.html) that they did outside of The Wonder Years (https://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/26/nyregion/for-wonder-years-actor-recalls-li.html). To give you some perspective, here is an excerpt from an Entertainment Weekly review (https://ew.com/article/1994/03/25/these-friends-mine/) from 1994 on Ellen (http://reviewingeverytvshowiown.blogspot.com/search/label/Ellen) (at the time, called These Friends of Mine (https://www.deseret.com/1996/5/9/19241408/abc-will-fill-tuesday-hole-with-lost-episodes-of-ellen)):
It’s silly to criticize a sitcom for being trivial, of course. But there’s a knowing wink behind every joke in These Friends that just wasn’t there in, say, your average I Love Lucy or Dick Van Dyke Show episode. Part of the problem here is that the people who made These Friends, including creator-writers Carol Black and Neal Marlens (The Wonder Years (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-12-05-8903150476-story.html)), want you not merely to laugh at but to identify — nay, mind-meld — with these characters. They want you to poke your own friend in the ribs and say, ”Isn’t that exactly what we always say?” or ”Don’t you know people who always do that?” God bless Lucille Ball — at least she never asked me to think of her as my doppelgänger.

I’m tempted to say that These Friends of Mine is about nothing — because it is, wearyingly so — but you know where that would lead: We’d have to pin some of the blame for These Friends‘ ponderous joshing on the increasingly mimicked original about — nothing show, Seinfeld. And that show, as brilliant as it has been, is undergoing its own little identity crisis this, its fourth, season. The series has become something of a victim of its own success, as the subtle self-awareness that creators Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David built into their show has gradually become just another attitude option for lesser sitcom writers on other series. Seinfeld itself is not immune to this; recent episodes not written by David have verged on self-parody.

The ongoing Seinfeld rip-off that’s fascinating whenever it’s not actually annoying is the one Paul Reiser is doing weekly on Mad About You. From the hangdog expression he wears like a mask to the choppy sentences that have the rhythm, but not the content, of real jokes, Reiser is appropriating the Seinfeld attitude with casual brazenness. One imagines he must get down on his knees every few days and thank The Great Casting Agent for giving him Helen Hunt, who provides Mad with its sole element of originality. As Paul’s wife, Jamie, Hunt has developed a vivid, varied character at just the moment when Seinfeld‘s Julia Louis-Dreyfus has become more of a caricature.

But back to our original target: Maybe DeGeneres will yet turn These Friends of Mine into something worthy of her. Watching her stand-up act, I’ve always thought of her as an exceptionally smart, unusually honest camp counselor, and what’s most dispiriting about the pilot show is the way she has dimmed her usually bright-eyed, big-smiling countenance to approximate the patented Seinfeld deadpan. Still, this is only the first episode. Apparently, Black and Marlens’ (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dDmBgTU6t1gJ:https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-09-04-ca-34627-story.html+&cd=22&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) involvement will be decreasing (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/tv/1994/05/01/ellen-degeneres/3887ced0-d27a-4cc2-8690-2163ef798952/) in future episodes, and DeGeneres actually does have her own, fresh comic persona to develop and deepen. Not that we want a deep sitcom, of course; that would be verging on Seinfeld territory.

It's even debatable exactly how much credit they should receive for the success of The Wonder Years (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031122810/http://www.jumptheshark.com/w/wonderyears.htm):
In 1989, after working on the show for 18 episodes, Marlens and Black left the show due to “personal issues”; Marlens declined to elaborate. Bob Brush was named executive producer.

Brush: I joined the show then after the first six episodes as kind of a co-executive producer, and then I was there the next season for the first 11 or 12 [episodes], and when Neal and Carol left, I took the show over at that point. It was mid-season, so it was a kind of a scramble to keep the show moving forward at that point.

Lauria: Initially, when Neal and Carol left, we were a little down about it. But Bob had been here. So we kind of felt like if anybody should take over it should be Bob.

Mills: Neal and Carol got carte blanche with this show; the president of ABC, Brandon Stoddard, loved them. Because of that they could make it however they wanted to make it. And [when they left] I was so worried that I was sobbing, and I think I was even screaming. I said, “You can’t do this! You can’t create something that could be really iconic and then bail!” But they had to. Bob Brush was new, he’d just come in, and I liked him, but I just didn’t think he was going to be able to handle it. But he was seamless. I don’t know how he did it; he kept the writing excellent, and he kept the quality of the show excellent.

Marlens: We didn’t really watch the show very much after we left. When you do something creative and you do it from a personal place, and then someone else comes in tries to continue and execute what it is you started — there are always going to be things that are very different from what you would have done. At the end of the day, I think the show worked, and that’s about all you can ask for. You either have to do it, or be happy with the way someone else does it.

Brush: Everybody was writing from their own childhood experiences. And of course, my job was to make sure these stories became universal in the telling. But I know for myself it was a tremendous experience to write about those old memories. As a matter of fact, I had a therapist that I was still talking with, and I had to finally give up the therapy because he was watching the show and he became convinced that I was Kevin Arnold. So he was analyzing Kevin Arnold at that point [laughs].

And it seems like just about every show that they did, had some sort of series production trouble. Here's some tidbits (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oFuyxCHx3T0J:https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-05-04-ca-53722-story.html+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) on what went on behind the scenes of what was then known as These Friends of Mine:
But “These Friends” has endured its own personal struggles, which it has managed to keep relatively quiet. In his friendly review of the show two weeks ago, TV Guide critic Jeff Jarvis wrote that he hoped the creators and executive producers, Carol Black and Neal Marlens, stick with the show. Black and Marlens, who are married, created the enormously successful “The Wonder Years” and then left it for others to run after the first season.

What Jarvis apparently didn’t know was that Black and Marlens had relinquished the creative reigns to “These Friends” before it even premiered--with Marlens and DeGeneres in something of a creative standoff, according to sources.

Black and Marlens, who declined to be interviewed for this story, envisioned an edgy, ensemble show centered around the sometimes dark comic interplay of a smart single woman and her pals, while ABC, Walt Disney Television and DeGeneres herself preferred a star-driven show with a softer tone.

*

Early last year, DeGeneres, a hard-working club comedian known for her low-key observational humor, was receiving various TV offers. She chose Black and Marlens because she thought they had the same comic sensibility. DeGeneres had a small role in their last sitcom for ABC, “Laurie Hill,” which was canceled early in the 1992-93 season because it failed to hold onto “Home Improvement’s” lead-in audience.

ABC ordered 12 episodes of “These Friends” after seeing the pilot, which was shot in April, 1993, and then bumped it from last season’s fall schedule to make room for “Grace Under Fire.” “These Friends” finally began production in October, for a midseason debut, but ground to a halt midway through shooting. Among the creative differences that cropped up was a disagreement over how much risque humor was appropriate. The premiere episode featured a guy who repeatedly barked like a dog during sex.

“I don’t think that way,” said DeGeneres, 36. “That’s one thing I’m really known for in my stand-up: I do an hour-and-a-half or two of clean comedy.”

DeGeneres knows that many fans believe that TV stars are like the characters they play, and she doesn’t want people to see her in a false light.

“Because I’m playing myself, and the show was created around me, I’m really sensitive to things like that,” DeGeneres said. “It’s not that I’m offended by the guy in the pilot barking, but it certainly isn’t something I would have written. It’s just not me. Then the press started questioning it: ‘Why were you clean for so long and now you’re doing this?’ I don’t want people thinking I’m all of a sudden doing something else because I’m on TV.”

There also seemed to be a question at ABC and Disney whether “These Friends,” as seen by Black and Marlens, were nice friends. In one episode, Adam, played by Arye Gross, pretends to have a neck injury from an accident to take advantage of free massages and collect insurance money. In another, Adam witnesses--but doesn’t help out--a woman getting mugged, and then he is reluctant to come forward as a witness because he doesn’t want the woman, who he winds up dating, to think he’s a wimp.

“It wasn’t that there was massive conflict,” said Dean Valentine, president of Walt Disney Television. “What happened, basically, is that the network was pressuring the show to go in a certain direction by putting Ellen in front and making it clear that these people were really friends. I don’t think Neal (or Carol) completely disagreed, it just wasn’t their vision.”

Black and Marlens, meanwhile, had enough to deal with. Black was pregnant and the couple’s home had just been burned in the Malibu fires. To avoid complications in their lives, sources said, they voluntarily chose to reduce their roles to creative consultants, turning the show over to their co-executive producers, David Rosenthal and Warren Bell. Next season, Black and Marlens are not expected to take executive producer credits on the show at all.

At the request of ABC and Disney, Rosenthal and Bell set out to make the last six episodes “Ellen-centric,” as Rosenthal said. They also began collaborating more with DeGeneres.

“I was totally out of the loop,” DeGeneres said. “I wish I were as powerful as Roseanne, and knew everything that was going on, and had a part of everything, but I certainly am not that powerful.”

*

When Black and Marlens backed off, the co-executive producers added a bookstore and cafe called Buy the Book, where DeGeneres works, and they added a character in the bookstore, Joe the coffee guy (David Higgins), and they played up the role of her boss (Cristine Rose).

“Ellen is such a strong personality, such a strong talent, that when you’re watching the show, you really want to know what’s going on with her at every moment,” explained Rosenthal, 26. “For a new show coming out of the blocks, she carries a lot of the weight emotionally and comically. It’s all on her shoulders.”

At one point, ABC was considering not broadcasting the first seven episodes at all, but then decided to air them all in mixed order. Ironically, three of the first four high-rated episodes were from the original batch overseen by Black and Marlens. After tonight’s show, another episode has been slotted for May 24 following “Roseanne,” and the other five will be scheduled this summer.

“These Friends” is all but assured to come back in the fall with a full-season order. “I personally would be very disappointed if viewers don’t see the show on our fall schedule,” said Alan Sternfeld, ABC’s senior vice president of program planning and scheduling.

They also seemed to be absolutely incapable of adapting or readjusting their writing to a multi-camera sitcom setting. Here is a portion of an article (https://web.archive.org/web/20200322074642/https://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/10/archives/television-the-short-life-and-unhappy-death-of-laurie-hill.html) about their short-lived series for ABC, Laurie Hill (https://web.archive.org/web/20210629053329/https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1992-09-30-9201240563-story.html):
Fundamentally, Ms. Black says, with a multiple-camera show there is more pressure to lace the script with jokes, while the single-camera format lends itself more to story and character development.

"With multiple camera, you get a room full of people and try to come up with the funniest possible joke," says Ms. Black of typical story development sessions on sitcoms (https://screenrant.com/90s-sitcoms-forgotten-best-worst-ranked/).

"There are television writers who are just wacky, funny people," says Mr. Marlens. "That's how their brains work. I don't think we're that kind of people."

"Growing Pains" was a successful, four-camera, joke-driven show, but by the end of the first year Ms. Black and Mr. Marlens were miserable. With "The Wonder Years," they felt they had found a half-hour format compatible with their writing style. John J. O'Connor, writing in The New York Times, offered that "ABC's 'Wonder Years' is the kind of small, beautifully crafted weekly series that is so good it prompts immediate speculation on how long it can be held together."

Technically, "Laurie Hill" (https://web.archive.org/web/20210620130809/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-09-30-1992274011-story.html) was a hybrid -- not quite sitcom, not quite drama -- devised by Ms. Black and Mr. Marlens to balance their creative sensibilities with budget realities. They decided to write "Laurie Hill" as if it were being shot with a single camera, then produce it with four.

"If you're writing a movie," says Ms. Black, "you just write it the way you want to. And it's funny where it's funny, and it's not where it's not, and that's not a problem." For "Laurie Hill," it was a problem.

The problem with the laugh track was no laughing matter. "Laurie Hill" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1992/09/30/tv-preview/b810080d-7f00-4a0c-8f1d-39c55c831688/?utm_term=.0feaa0b25fdc) was shot on a closed set. There was no audience reacting to the lines, a situation that affected the actors and their pacing. Without living, breathing viewers, the script and the interaction among the actors created their own rhythm. But at the end of the day, "Laurie Hill" (https://people.com/archive/picks-and-pans-review-laurie-hill-vol-38-no-15/) didn't exactly feel right without a laugh track to create the illusion of an audience.

"People may not know it except on a subliminal level," says Mr. Marlens. "But their expectations, after years of conditioning, are that multiple-camera shows have a laugh track." Even Ms. Black and Mr. Marlens (https://greensboro.com/pressures-of-successful-tv-show-drives-actress/article_750849dd-9d97-57d6-949c-6ef20371e288.html) concede that the show "felt a little barren" without a laugh track. With a typical laugh track, though, it felt equally out of sync." The only one-camera show I know of that used a laugh track successfully was 'M*A*S*H,' " says Mr. Marlens.

They went back into the pilot several times to try to resolve the problem. They even went to the people who had created the "M*A*S*H" laugh track. "We tried what they call a 'chuckle track,' basically a low-key laugh track," says Ms. Black. "We weren't happy with that, either."

Then they took the show (https://buffalonews.com/news/ladies-of-the-evening-on-tv-a-new-season-for-women/article_81f28948-0281-5565-a60d-e4c0667616da.html) and screened it with an audience, recording real laughs. "That was much worse," says Ms. Black. "There were laughs that were way too loud in some places and not enough in others."

Ultimately, they went with a variation on a chuckle track that didn't completely satisfy anyone, although Ms. Black believes viewers would have gotten comfortable with the difference, as they had with "M*A*S*H."

The network loved the pilot, according to Mr. Valentine. "ABC felt the pilot was absolutely wonderful," he says. In fact, they claimed to love it more than Mr. Valentine found believable, "particularly given what I perceived as the scheduling problems."

During the summer, word filtered back to Ms. Black and Mr. Marlens that ABC was unhappy with the scripts. It was the first concrete indication that the network was developing serious problems with the show (https://www.deseret.com/1992/9/9/19004004/this-fall-on-tv).

"ABC was clearly unhappy creatively (https://www.metv.com/lists/these-12-sitcoms-of-the-1990s-were-brief-hits-but-only-lasted-a-year)," says Mr. Valentine. "It never amounted to anything specific, just that it didn't feel like other shows. They wanted the structure to be like other shows. They wanted it to be funnier (http://www.tvparty.com/1-awful-1990s-shows.html), more like a sitcom."

So Ms. Black and Mr. Marlens tried funnier -- funny lines as opposed to letting the humor emerge from the situation. As a result, the second episode felt vastly different from the other four that were broadcast. It follows Laurie through a maze of plumbing disasters and her troubles with an obnoxious patient. At one point, the waterlogged living-room ceiling collapses. At another, Laurie bursts into tears and a colleague asks how long it has been since she had sex with her husband.

One-liners didn't feel right, either. Ultimately, Mr. Valentine says the network's position regarding the show (https://books.google.com/books?id=RxHbPxbBM1AC&pg=RA14-PP32&lpg=RA14-PP32&dq=laurie+hill+DeLane+Matthews&source=bl&ots=AXV0yf11FZ&sig=ACfU3U3uZBx4HSAF7P32IMd6UHh2sqYZfw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjo-vmlhej1AhX_lGoFHV4BDW44UBDoAXoECAkQAw#v=onepage&q=laurie%20hill%20DeLane%20Matthews&f=false)'s scripts and tone was self-serving. ABC needed the show's time slot (http://www.tvtango.com/series/laurie_hill), he says, and it would be far easier if it failed.

TMC

05-30-2022, 04:57 AM

I haven't mentioned a lot of animation-related showrunners but one that should go straight near the top of this list is John Kricfalusi, who created The Ren & Stimpy Show (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031124052/http://www.jumptheshark.com/r/renandstimpy.htm). Without going too deeply, it was an open secret (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/TheRenAndStimpyShow) that John K. (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/the-positive-john-kricfalusi-thread.4961281/) was extremely abusive towards his staff and co-workers. He was also incredibly slow (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroubledProduction/WesternAnimation) with getting his work done on time. And as the Ren & Stimpy "Adult Party" Cartoon would prove, John K. (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/was-john-kricfalusi-ever-good.5742851/page-2) really needed (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/RenAndStimpyAdultPartyCartoon) Nickelodeon to keep (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/the-problem-of-john-k-making-cartoons-with-complete-control.5759431/) his worst indulgences in check. The fact that John K. (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/john-k-accused-of-prior-sexual-misconduct.5650002/) is an all around (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/ren-stimpy-creator-accused-of-preying-on-underage-girls.1511002/) scumbag in his personal life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kricfalusi#Sexual_abuse_allegations) was just the tip of the iceberg.

To give you some better context (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CondemnedByHistory):
John Kricfalusi (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/JohnKricfalusi) made a name for himself with The Ren & Stimpy Show (https://web.archive.org/web/20140405155029/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2841339-ren-stimpy/?view=getnewpost), the third of three animated series that kickstarted the Nicktoons franchise, heralded a wave of creator-driven cartoons during The '90s, and codified the Gross-Out Show. However, Kricfalusi was notoriously hard to work with and turned in multiple episodes of Ren & Stimpy late due to his rampant perfectionism. His inability to keep a deadline eventually got him fired from his own show. Over a decade later, he was given the opportunity to take the reins of the show again with Ren & Stimpy "Adult Party Cartoon", which met such a negative reception that it killed Spike TV's animation block in mere months, led to the downfall of gross-out cartoons, and caused Ren & Stimpy fans to begin considering Bob Camp, one of the co-founders of Kricfalusi's animation studio Spümcø, the true creator of the show and characters.

Kricfalusi lost his remaining respect and reputation in 2018 when he was revealed to be a sexual predator who had groomed two underaged girls after he was fired from Ren & Stimpy, and harassed female crewmembers of Adult Party Cartoon. The final blow came in 2019 when he released the short film Cans Without Labels, which had been in Development Hell since 2012 following a successful Kickstarter campaign and was felt to be not worth the wait when it finally did come out. All of this has made Kricfalusi's name toxic among animation fans. When Comedy Central announced a Ren & Stimpy reboot, they made it a point to mention that Kricfalusi would not be involved in any capacity. That the show was getting a reboot at all was enough to spark harsh criticism, due to its association with Kricfalusi's sordid history. It would take nothing short of a miracle for Ren & Stimpy to regain the respect it used to have, while the statutory rape allegations will likely prevent Kricfalusi from getting work ever again.

70s show watcher

05-30-2022, 05:24 PM

scoey mitchill he was a fine actor but he produced some awful sitcoms in the mid 80s anybody remember me and mrs c or 13 east ? well if you don't trust me you did not miss anything

TMC

05-31-2022, 08:53 PM

Cary Fukunaga hit with more accusations of abusing his power in pursuit of young women on his sets (https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-features/cary-fukunaga-no-time-to-die-1359656/)

Last month, twin sisters Hannah and Cailin Loesch, who appeared on the Fukunaga (https://www.tvtattle.com/people/cary-fukunaga)-produced Netflix limited series Maniac, and former HBO Betty star Rachelle Vinberg and accused the Emmy-winning director of taking advantage of his position by pursuing relationships with them (https://www.primetimer.com/item/Cary-Fukunaga-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-three-women-in-their-20s-including-twin-sisters-who-appeared-on-Netflixs-Maniac-49S8w3) -- or "grooming" them. Now, Rolling Stone reports Fukunaga did something similar when he was a director on the set of Apple TV+ World War II miniseries Masters of the Air. "According to two production sources, the celebrated director’s focus was not on the scene’s main players, but rather on two of the background actresses — one of whom had recently turned 18 — dressed as prostitutes from the 1940s," reports Rolling Stone's Cheyenne Roundtree. "Taking pictures of the young women, he egged them on while they posed suggestively, bent against a wall and kneeling on the ground. One of the sources claims Fukunaga acted under the guise of needing the photos for continuity purposes — a task normally expected to fall on a production’s wardrobe department and not the man at the helm of a 600-plus cast and crew. To the two production sources who watched the 10-minute interaction unfold, Fukunaga crossed a professional line, using his position in ways that felt uncomfortable to those looking on." When Rolling Stone asked about allegations of pursuing romantic relationships with multiple young women on his sets, Fukunaga did not respond. But Fukunaga's attorney, Michael Plonkster, released a statement saying the director had “not acted in any manner that would or should generate” an article focusing on claims of misconduct made against him. Plonkster added: “There is nothing salacious about pursuing friendships or consensual romantic relationships with women. Nevertheless, because that would not fit your narrative, you conclude he has done something wrong...He creates a work environment that is creative, collaborative and welcoming to all."

TMC

06-05-2022, 05:37 AM

Not a scripted show (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AudienceAlienatingEra/LiveActionTV) but Entertainment Tonight (https://web.archive.org/web/20140526210303/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-90) when Linda Bell Blue (http://www.deadline.com/2013/09/entertainment-tonight-ep-linda-bell-blue-exiting-show-after-nearly-two-decades/) was the executive producer (from 1995 (https://ew.com/article/1995/08/11/linda-bell-blue-joins-entertainment-tonight/)-2014 (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/ep-linda-bell-blue-departing-637468/)). Simply put, ET (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125154/http://www.jumptheshark.com/e/entertainmenttonight.htm) under her watch (https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/linda-bell-blue) went from being a classy, respectable infotainment program that strived to cover all bases of the world of show business, to a hyper-active, sensationalistic (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/EntertainmentTonight), melodramatic, borderline trashy tabloid (https://michaelandthetruth.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-is-michael-jr-on-entertainment.html) show. It went from bad to worse when Hard Copy (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125301/http://www.jumptheshark.com/h/hardcopy.htm) was cancelled in 1999 and that show's staff was absorbed (https://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?611910-Belated-red-letter-day-September-14-1981) into ET's. Linda Bell Blue also by most accounts (https://books.google.com/books?id=FjxPBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=I%27ll+Be+Back+Right+After+This:+My+Memoir&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4z8Xb1db1AhW0SzABHWMzAyMQ6AF6BAgDEAI#v=onepage&q=Linda%20Bell%20Blue&f=false), had a very hectic and chaotic managerial style, where you virtually had to walk on egg-shells. She could be described (https://pagesix.com/2014/05/18/former-et-producer-dishes-on-mental-boss-in-new-novel/) as like Meryl Streep's character in The Devil Wears Prada.

It almost get a kick out of going through the old TWoP forums (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411060907/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-1) on Entertainment Tonight (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125154/http://www.jumptheshark.com/e/entertainmenttonight.htm) from the 2000s. It basically serves a perfect window (https://web.archive.org/web/20140330033719/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-5#entry2355733) into how that show (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b696b51e905f66b50ca/ET-has-a-funny-habbit-of-talking-about-things-nobody-cares-about) became a complete shell of itself (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b666b51e905f66b4ec5/ETs-lowest-of-low-moments) under Linda Bell Blue's watch (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,298303,00.html). Pat O'Brien's memoir (https://books.google.com/books?id=FjxPBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=I%27ll+Be+Back+Right+After+This:+My+Memoir&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjUye-L_5X4AhWwlWoFHcOfDDUQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=Linda%20Bell%20Blue&f=false) also has some nice little insight of what it was like working under LBB.

After spending decades in the juicy world of sports and entertainment broadcasting, Pat O’Brien has written a memoir detailing those experiences (https://web.archive.org/web/20150731092503/http://da.radio.cbssports.com/2014/08/22/pat-obrien-in-entertainment-we-ruin-peoples-lives/).

In I’ll Be Back Right After This, the 66-year-old takes us from the rise of the NBA to his time in the entertainment industry. In the end, O’Brien, who battled alcoholism throughout his career, reveals a world that isn’t quite so glamorous when the studio lights are off.

“I just figured people should know what some of these people were like to work with,” O’Brien said on The Damon Amendolara Show. “I was very harsh with Linda Bell Blue, my executive producer, because there was no worse person to work for. The funny thing about it is a couple of (my former colleagues) have called me and said, ‘Why did you do that?’ And I said, ‘Listen, we were in the business of destroying people’s lives. How does it feel?’”

“I’m not destroying anybody’s life, but we would put out rumors (that would just ruin) people’s days by saying stuff that wasn’t true – and my stuff is true. So once they turn the table on you, it’s a little different.”

According to O’Brien, Blue would force hosts (https://web.archive.org/web/20140330032600/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-4#entry1694444) to find roundabout ways to ask questions that could result in dramatic previews. If O’Brien were talking to, say, Julia Roberts, he might ask if it’s harder to find work in Hollywood as you get older. He then might ask if that depresses her, which leads to asking if she’s depressed in general, which leads to asking if she’s ever committed suicide. Then the show could say in its preview, for example, “Did Julia Roberts ever contemplate suicide? Find out tonight!”

The answer, of course, was no.

“It was a moronic way to play it, and that’s why these shows suck right now,” O’Brien said. “That’s why the ratings have gone down so much because people have figured it out. But you put out anything to get ratings.”

The bottom-line is that before (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b686b51e905f66b501c/Tabloid-Tv-Entertainment-Tonight) Linda Bell Blue came along in 1995, Entertainment Tonight (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081857/reviews?ref_=tttr_ql_op_3) was (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4fe3/Does-Anyone-Remember-When-This-Show-Sold-Out) an informative (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4f9d/ET-no-longer-respectable-TV) entertainment show about the latest movies, television, and music. But then, they switched the format (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b656b51e905f66b4e5e/Ready-to-Abandon-ET) to a more (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4faf/Theyre-nothing-but-Tabloid-TV) tabloid/gossip-styled show (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b656b51e905f66b4e87/The-downward-spiral-of-ET).

TMC

06-08-2022, 03:25 AM

scoey mitchill (http://waynepowers.com/wpwp/actor-comedian/13-east/) he was a fine actor but he produced some awful sitcoms in the mid 80s anybody remember me and mrs c or 13 east (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096526/) ? well if you don't trust me you did not miss anything

These shows (https://twitter.com/TooCloseToTheTV/status/1438345340537565184) appear to be so obscure (http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2017/05/week-37-sitcom-looking-back-on-55.html), that there at the moment, aren't any Wikipedia pages on them (https://picclick.co.uk/1989-Press-Photo-Premiere-of-the-NBC-TVs-newest-403611126621.html).

This is apparently, the only known remaining footage of 13 East (https://books.google.com/books?id=70szDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA225&lpg=PA225&dq=13+East+1989+nbc&source=bl&ots=ssUHxpyWep&sig=ACfU3U0bP2CwqSQAgnWB0u_FzMobByMM7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1qfb8p534AhU_lIQIHU-gDxA4ChDoAXoECBIQAw) that's readily available online:
V15D6Ngh73A

gii_WcPiheM

r4MkWKAc_w0

_KxYT9a_FT0

Here's all of news articles that I could find on Google that references 13 East (https://www.tvobscurities.com/2019/07/a-year-in-tv-guide-july-29th-1989/):

Comedy remains king of TV - UPI Archives - UPI.com (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/08/22/Comedy-remains-king-of-TV/3911619761600/)

ENTERTAINMENT : NBC's 'Cheers' Tops Ratings Week - Los ... (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-08-01-mn-731-story.html)

BURNETT TO STAR IN NBC SITCOM - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/05/24/burnett-to-star-in-nbc-sitcom/8fd6cde5-5741-4bb7-b5fe-c96c23f6b663/)

Meanwhile, here's the information (http://www.tvparty.com/80nbc4.html) that I could find on Me and Mrs. C (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090482/):

Weekend TV Highlights - UPI Archives (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/06/28/Weekend-TV-Highlights/2164520315200/)

NBC's 'ALF': Alien Laugh Form - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1986/09/22/nbcs-alf-alien-laugh-form/2129b8fb-954e-4dd5-be4d-1ce9242f2120/)

TV REVIEW : 'ME AND MRS. C' WILTS AMONG RERUNS (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-21-ca-19857-story.html)

TV REVIEW : 'ME AND MRS. C' WILTS AMONG RERUNS (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-21-ca-19857-story.html)

XtCfTP63RIo

lHOtFcr8yGY

TMC

06-10-2022, 01:05 AM

Michael Landon from Little House on the Prairie comes to mind. He I believe, also served in that capacity on Highway to Heaven.

A more modern example could be Seth MacFarlane with The Orville.

And while Alan Alda may not have officially been the showrunner on MASH, he had a lot to do with its direction.

While she wasn't officially the showrunner per se, it's been often suggested or said that Moesha (https://web.archive.org/web/20140402224659/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3114289-everybody-say-moesha/?view=getnewpost) jumped the shark (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031141222/http://www.jumptheshark.com/m/moesha.htm) and went downhill in quality once Brandy Norwood and her mom, Sonja took on more active creative roles:
http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php/918434-Yet-Another-Moesha-Thread-How-Brandy-and-Sonja-contributed-to-its-downfall

Co-Creator of TV Hit 'Moesha' Fired (http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec/02)

Television: Vida Spears is ousted, apparently in power struggle with UPN comedy star Brandy.

Vida Spears, a creator of UPN's hit comedy "Moesha" and one of the TV industry's few African American show runners, has been fired from the comedy because of a power struggle with star Brandy and her mother and manager, Sonja Norwood, sources said.

The ousting of Spears, which took place Tuesday, was not wholly unexpected to those working on the series where tensions had been building for weeks over the show's creative direction. Brandy also wanted to be named as an executive producer, which Spears opposed, they said.

Spears was managing "Moesha" on her own this season after working with partner Sara V. Finney (now overseeing the "Moesha" spinoff, "The Parkers"). She had resisted plans by the Norwoods and UPN to bring more dramatic and gritty urban elements to the comedy; instead she favored hewing to the show's comedic and more family-oriented roots, said several sources involved with the series.

The popularity of "The Parkers" was particularly galling to the Norwoods because of a feud between Brandy and Vaughn, who had been featured on "Moesha" for the first four seasons as Kim, her boy-crazy best friend, production sources said. The two actresses were seen fighting constantly, and Brandy finally demanded that Vaughn be taken off the show. Because Kim was one of the comedy's most popular characters, producers decided to create a new show involving her.

Hot Topics Thicken Plot for 'Moesha' (http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec/06): Television: UPN comedy turns to grittier material that veteran staffers call stereotypical.

But as Brandy moves into adulthood, and her character moves into college, UPN, Brandy and her mother felt the show had lost much of its relevance and depth. The concern was that Moesha and her family had become "too perfect," turning the comedy into more of a Saturday-morning version of a black family.

The show's writer/producers were repeatedly pressed to add edgy elements to the show, but the creative forces behind "Moesha" successfully opposed it. So "Moesha" did not include stories of black gangs and guns or sex among young people.

I honestly don't think that had Vida Spears still been running the ship, that the show wouldn't have gone through the infamous storyline about Moesha's dad, Frank having a secret love child (played by Brandy's real life brother, Ray J), while he was still married to Moesha's late mother.

TMC

06-14-2022, 11:48 PM

TMC

08-09-2022, 09:37 PM

Did ER (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031122553/http://www.jumptheshark.com/e/er.htm) really (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/boa4u5/worst_season_of_er/) start declining in quality (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/m5tdtg/when_did_er_go_downhill_for_you_spoilers/) from Season 7 (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SeasonalRot/LiveActionTV) onward (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/gvses6/when_did_er_jump_the_shark/)? For one thing, while the show was always a drama, there was still a good mix of lighter medical storylines that balanced it all out.

It should be noted that Season 6 was Neal Baer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Baer)'s last season as an executive producer and writer. The episodes that he wrote usually had their share of humor. For example, he wrote the one (https://90sflashback.wordpress.com/2019/03/19/er-3-14-whose-appy-now-dnr-nbd/) in which Carter takes out Benton's appendix.

Once Baer was gone (he went off to work on Law & Order: SVU), the principal show runner (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/9plqqo/carter_and_abby/) for Seasons 7-9 (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/q8baz9/when_did_er_stop_being_er_for_you/) was Jack Orman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Orman), who had first written for ER in Season 4 and rose through the ranks. He and Baer had co-run the show (https://web.archive.org/web/20140401074114/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3116836-er/?view=getnewpost) in Season 6.

But it was under Orman's solo watch (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/w6he08/romanos_death/) that the show (https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/1435-er/) became more (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/rwr8be/times_er_went_too_far/) soapy (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/avjoel/how_would_you_rank_the_seasons/) and dark (https://www.reddit.com/r/ershow/comments/dw3x3p/why_are_the_later_seasons_so_damn_depressing/).

TMC

08-12-2022, 03:25 AM

I've briefly mentioned him once before, but this time I go further in discussing Dan Schneider (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/DanSchneider), who created/executive produced All That, The Amanda Show, Drake & Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly (https://dbknews.com/2018/04/09/nickelodeon-dan-schneider-abuse-i-carly/), Victorious, Sam & Cat, Henry Danger, and Game Shakers for Nickelodeon (https://bruinvoice.net/6670/entertainment/sexual-exploitation-at-nickelodeon/). I don't know where else to begin except to say that with all due respect, Schneider's brand of comedy is in my estimation, an acquired taste.

He has this extremely bizarre (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/888unq/the_amanda_show_dan_schneiders_bizarre_humor_gone/dwiuyuc/) sense of humor that could often show a dark (https://web.archive.org/web/20140403191256/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3114981-all-that-welcome-to-good-burger/page-3#entry3470596) and mean-spirited (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/why-is-nick-so-obsessed-with-mean-spirited-cartoons.5550062/post-84507011) edge. Schneider seems to love putting random non-sequiturs throughout his shows, where his characters do or say something just because and the randomness of it is supposed to be funny. I'm guessing that his shows were so successful with teens, adults, and children because of all of the crazy, loud (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/98kij3/the_dan_schneider_conspiracy_a_scandal_at/e4gv6nz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), childish, and weird characters being showcased.

I must add however, that the dialogue and writing in these shows are occasionally, laced (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(iCarly)) with sexual innuendos (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(Victorious)) and double entendres. Not only that, but he also litters his shows with what could be considered unpleasant stereotypes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BU4LS1mxw) about minorities (especially black women (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/victorious-was-anti-black-women.3026680/)). He also likes to incorporate (https://adri.substack.com/p/what-we-dont-talk-about-when-we-talk) his obvious foot fetish in his shows.

Maybe it's really just a coincidence, but Schneider also always seemed to pit the girls on his shows against (https://youtu.be/xOU1Y9fev14) each other. This even extends to his non-Nickelodeon shows like What I Like About You (https://moviechat.org/tt0321018/What-I-Like-About-You/58c7b9dff9fcca09a0d7e5da/Bynes-and-Garth-hated-each-other) with Amanda Bynes and Jennie Garth.

Don't take my word for it, but there's a "blind item" (https://goo.gl/XTjiQk) online (http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2014/MARCH.html) that suggests that Nickelodeon wanted to get rid of Victorious (despite its popularity) as fast as possible before the proverbial "stuff hit the fan". There was allegedly a lot of sex and drugs going on behind the scenes that would've been extremely bad for Nickelodeon's image.

What we do know for sure however, is the behind the scenes (http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/future-of-nickelodeon-series-sam-cat-in-limbo-amidst-behind-the-scenes-drama/) mess (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroubledProduction/LiveActionTV) that was Sam & Cat:

The problems seemed to start when, instead of being renewed for a second season, the series had its first season episode order doubled from 20 to 40. This is an unheard-of number for a scripted show; most American series don't exceed 24 episodes a season, with cable shows often having far less. (Even in the 1950s, when it was not uncommon for series to have upwards of 30 episodes per season, this would have been unheard of.) This meant that the cast and crew didn't get a break from their schedule and also didn't get to possibly renegotiate contracts between seasons.
This grueling schedule put a strain on everybody, with McCurdy and Grande both reportedly ready to move on. Both stars began showing up late on set, and McCurdy did not appear at the Kids Choice Awards in 2014, saying point-blank on Twitter the reason was the way she was treated by Nickelodeon. There was also the Contractual Purity of being young adults working at the kid-friendly Nickelodeon; Grande's music career has taken off, and McCurdy was struggling with personal problems, including her mother's death in late 2013 and the leak of several racy (though not explicit) photos.
Amidst all of this, the show wasn't renewed for a second season and instead was placed on "permanent hiatus", with all crew members let go apart from post-production to finish the episodes already filmed. Nick then officially cancelled (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nickelodeons-sam-cat-canceled-718195) the show.

Dan Schneider's shows are in a nutshell, repetitive and contained the same premises and formula for the most part. iCarly, Zoey 101, and Victorious in particular, were about cute, down-to-earth girls (Carly Shay, Zoey Brooks, and Tori Vega respectively) as a foils to a wacky ensemble in a high concept environment. And they're peppered with tons of bikini scenes and closeups of feet.

And the formula in itself, is comprised of mean-spirited, lowbrow humor where nerds and fat people get made fun of, the black characters are loud and obnoxious, and the parents are neglectful idiots.

TMC

08-31-2022, 04:14 AM

Dan Schneider's shows are in a nutshell, repetitive and contained the same premises and formula for the most part. iCarly, Zoey 101, and Victorious in particular, were about cute, down-to-earth girls (Carly Shay, Zoey Brooks, and Tori Vega respectively) as a foils to a wacky ensemble in a high concept environment. And they're peppered with tons of bikini scenes and closeups of feet.

And the formula in itself, is comprised of mean-spirited, lowbrow humor where nerds and fat people get made fun of, the black characters are loud and obnoxious, and the parents are neglectful idiots.

Inside Dan Schneider's alleged Nickelodeon misconduct (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/dan-schneider-accused-of-disgusting-controlling-behavior-while-at-nickelodeon#:~:text=slimy-,Dan%20Schneider%20Accused%20of%20%E2%80%9CDisgusting%2C%20Controlling%E2%80%9D%20Behavior%20While%20at,Justice%2C%20and%20Jamie%20Lynn%20Spears.)

Dan Schneider Accused (https://www.vulture.com/2022/08/dan-schneider-nickelodeon-misconduct-allegations.html) of “Disgusting, Controlling” Behavior While at Nickelodeon (https://www.businessinsider.com/dan-schneider-nickelodeon-empire-massages-hostile-workplace-allegations-inappropriate-costumes-2022-8). A new Insider exposé (https://archive.ph/wF7gs#selection-1297.0-1297.137) details (https://twitter.com/Kate_H_Taylor/status/1564682971654799360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1564682971654799360%7Ctwgr%5E6e83cf6193603d47bc284ef0e74ea7cd0a6597fd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2Finsider%2Flink%2Frevealing-teen-costumes-on-set-massages-and-a-gender-discrimination-complaint-inside-dan-schneider-s-disgusting-nickelodeon-empire-gDmAd7Ae17) a “traumatizing” on-set environment with underage actors and concern over (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/daniella-monet-from-victorious-says-the-outfits-on-the-show-weren%E2%80%99t-age-appropriate-dan-schneider-exposed-for-creepy-behavior.5008380/) sexually suggestive scenes involving Ariana Grande, Victoria Justice, and Jamie Lynn Spears.

TMC

09-11-2022, 04:46 AM

6 TV Shows That Changed Showrunners & Suffered Because Of It (And 4 That Got Better) (https://www.cbr.com/tv-shows-that-changed-showrunners-for-better-or-worse/)

10
Better: Michael Piller Salvaged Star Trek: The Next Generation

9
Worse: Most Prefer To Forget Gargoyles Season 3, Greg Weisman Included

8
Better: The Simpsons' Golden Age Was Shepherded By Al Jean & Mike Reiss

7
Worse: The Simpsons' Decline Coincided With Mike Scully Becoming Showrunner

6
Worse: Seinfeld Wasn't Quite As Good After Larry David Left

5
Better: American Dad! Became More Than A Family Guy Clone When Seth MacFarlane Stepped Back

4
Worse: Community's Season 4, Made Without Dan Harmon, Is Its Worst

3
Worse: Dexter Took A Downward Turn After Clyde Phillips' Departure

2
Better: Manny Coto Turned Star Trek Enterprise Around

1
Worse: The Walking Dead Was Never As Good As It Was When Frank Darabont Was In Charge

TMC

09-24-2022, 04:43 AM

TMC

09-24-2022, 05:15 AM

la law was a good example of this when steven bocho left and david e Kelly took over it was a very smooth changeover that really does not happen with most shows

Speaking of which, here is an opposite example (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SeasonalRot/LiveActionTV) for LA Law (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/LALaw):

The rot began when the show lost three of its original cast members (Harry Hamlin, Jimmy Smits, and Michele Greene) at the end of the fifth season. New cast members Conchata Ferrell, Michael Cumpsty, and Sheila Kelley tried gamely, but Season 6 was nowhere near the quality of previous seasons.

Season 7 (https://web.archive.org/web/20210707102026/https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-1992-10-16-0000111198-story.html) was even worse (https://www.deseret.com/1993/1/7/19025527/and-the-verdict-is-l-a-law-is-guilty-of-boring-its-viewers): Ferrell, Cumpsty, Amanda Donohoe, Cecil Hoffman, and original cast member Susan Dey all departed the show (https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/18/arts/television-exhibit-a-the-highs-and-lows-of-la-law.html), along with series creator/executive producer Steven Bochco and consultant David E. Kelley (https://moviechat.org/tt0090466/LA-Law/58c745e66b51e905f6714bbc/Steven-Bochco-era-vs-David-E-Kelley-era). The show lapsed (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/26587453-who-was-your-favourite-character-on-la-law-) into an Audience-Alienating Era (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AudienceAlienatingEra/LiveActionTV), with ridiculous soapy stories (https://www.imdb.com/review/rw1636573/?ref_=tt_urv), Big Lipped Alligator Moments, Romantic Plot Tumors and a severe decline (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1993/04/01/tv-preview/7c47cc70-772e-4afe-81ca-e71d64113a32/) in script quality. The series began to (slightly) pick itself up (https://moviechat.org/tt0090466/LA-Law/58c745e96b51e905f6714d57/The-final-season-is-quite-good) mid-season, when John Masius and John Tinker (https://buffalonews.com/news/two-new-writers-hope-to-give-l-a-law-stay-of-execution/article_e67742ff-2274-595f-ae0c-d88dc074bc88.html), Bochco's replacements (https://web.archive.org/web/20220215053944/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-04-11-1993101124-story.html), were let go and William Finkelstein (https://web.archive.org/web/20220215053944/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-04-11-1993101124-story.html) took over, but by then (https://moviechat.org/tt0090466/LA-Law/58c745e86b51e905f6714c94/Wow-Season-7-really-jumped-the-shark) much of the show's fandom had abandoned it. L.A. Law (https://web.archive.org/web/20140403162843/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3113041-la-law-shut-up-you-watched-it-too/?view=getnewpost) limped through one final season before it succumbed to low ratings.

TMC

11-20-2022, 03:25 AM

Aaron Spelling was credited as an executive producer all of the 10 seasons he was alive right at the end of every episode, along with E. Duke Vincent.

To make things clear (https://michaelandthetruth.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-is-michael-jr-on-entertainment.html), a producer or executive producer of a show has many definitions. An executive producer for television is define as -

http://getinmedia.com/careers/tv-executive-producer

"In many ways, television production departs greatly from the formula for filmmaking, as do the job functions associated with certain titles. On a television series, the executive producer may be creator and chief writer of the product. This person is the ultimate creative force and business authority behind the property, rather than just the chief financial backer or the studio’s enforcer on a film set."

In the most simple and basic terms, an executive producer controls what goes on the television show.

TMC

11-30-2022, 06:29 PM

Jeff Melvoin if this one comment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Melvoin) is anything to go by:
If Ted McGinley is the onscreen patron saint, Jeff Melvoin (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/JeffMelvoin) is his equivalent behind the cameras. Melvoin is one of the most underqualified producers in show business, yet he consistently gets cushy jobs on quality, well-respected primetime shows. In other words, he's well known for being able to drive even the most loved series into the ground. Just look at Picket Fences (https://web.archive.org/web/20140406221003/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3142668-picket-fences-when-in-rome-wisconsin/?view=getnewpost)-- Kelley leaves 4th season, Melvoin (https://tbivision.com/2021/09/23/showrunners-insight-killing-eve-northern-exposures-jeff-melvoin/) takes over (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1996-02-11-9602070246-story.html), and the show gets cancelled (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-24-ca-61890-story.html). Melvoin joins the staff of Hill Street Blues (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031123834/http://www.jumptheshark.com/h/hillstreetblues.htm) as a co-executive producer-- show (https://web.archive.org/web/20140401074114/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3121077-hill-street-blues/?view=getnewpost) gets cancelled in a couple of years. Melvoin on Remington Steele (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031124953/http://www.jumptheshark.com/r/remingtonsteele.htm)-- do I even need to comment? Most recently, Melvoin takes over for Bob "Wonder Years" Brush on Early Edition (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031130152/http://www.jumptheshark.com/e/earlyedition.htm) and the show (https://web.archive.org/web/20140405134454/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3113853-early-edition/?view=getnewpost) is dumbed down, is never the same, and is quickly cancelled. The only success Melvoin has ever had in show business was a brief period on Northern Exposure (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031123905/http://www.jumptheshark.com/n/northernexposure.htm) as a writer and supervising producer-- the show (https://web.archive.org/web/20140401074938/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2295737-northern-exposure/?view=getnewpost) survived an amazing three seasons after he latched on.

TMC

12-11-2022, 08:08 PM

"Law & Order: SVU" showrunner David Graziano accused of bullying and sexism (https://www.avclub.com/law-order-svu-showrunner-david-graziano-accused-of-b-1849872580)

TMC

12-30-2022, 05:59 PM

Fans Agree That Jenji Kohan's Series Tend To Overstay Their Welcome (https://www.looper.com/1151888/fans-agree-that-jenji-kohans-series-tend-to-overstay-their-welcome/)

Numerous long-running TV shows outgrow their original premise (https://www.looper.com/137680/tv-shows-that-outgrew-their-original-premise/) and suffer from a noticeable dip in quality. This is all in the eyes of the beholder, but many programs meander to the point of repeating previous plotlines, treading the same thematic ground in different ways, or backing themselves into narrative cul-de-sacs in an attempt to keep things fresh. In fact, writing about the prison-riot set Season 5 of "Orange is the New Black," Caroline Framke of Vox (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/20/15826266/orange-is-the-new-black-season-5-is-bad-just-so-bad-yikes) noted, "A riot is a really tricky corner for the show to try to write itself out of and neatly resolve — so season five doesn't even try." Framke also called the installment "the sloppiest, most confusing season of Orange Is the New Black yet," and according to Redditors, this isn't the only Jenji Kohan show that has suffered from this kind of dip in quality.

On a television subreddit page, u/Aeon1508 (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/zm30e0/comment/j093e6c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) observed, "The end of season 3 of Weeds was so good and nothing worth while happened in that show afterward." Another fan pointed out a recurring trend in what some see as Kohan's involvement, with Redditor u/inmynothing (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/zm30e0/comment/j0a19f8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) stating, "Jenji Kohan is notorious for running her once critically acclaimed shows into the ground, see: Orange is the New Black."

"GLOW," for which Kohan was an executive producer, has also been assessed in a similar manner by some viewers on the comedy's subreddit page. Redditor u/staciarose35 (https://www.reddit.com/r/glow/comments/ct1vby/comment/i8o72hu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) shared, "It's like the show was too physical for the actors anymore. Every character lost touch with what made them fun and interesting, plus their bond was lost."

TMC

01-10-2023, 10:22 PM

Alan Ball (https://bloodbonds.wordpress.com/alan-ball-lays-a-goose-egg/)

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss (https://news.avclub.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-now-synonymous-with-bad-wr-1836151208)

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-people-hate-berman-braga.279734/)

Scott Buck (http://www.theandrewblog.net/2017/10/12/behold-the-inhumans/)

Clifton Campbell (https://www.ibtimes.co.in/sleepy-hollow-angers-fans-by-killing-off-abbie-mills-season-3-finale-will-series-return-673981)

Patricia Carr and Lara Olsen (https://hiddenremote.com/2018/09/02/90210-seasons-worst-best/2/)

Chris Carter (https://tvline.com/2018/03/23/the-x-files-season-12-chris-carter-showrunner-change/)

Ilene Chaiken (https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2016/12/18/star-isnt-empire-and-thats-a-good-thing/)

Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/fear-the-walking-dead-season-5-showrunners-respond-fan-backlash-criticism-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/)

Marc Cherry (http://archive.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/05/a_desperate_ran.html)

Chris Chibnall (https://www.quora.com/Is-Chris-Chibnall-the-worst-showrunner-ever-for-Doctor-Who)

Jeff Davis (https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/comments/4e62ub/jeff_davis_damn_bad_writing_my_thoughts/)

Jean Doumanian (https://www.looper.com/83835/untold-truth-snls-forgotten-season/)

Charles H. Eglee (https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/14/orlando-jones-american-gods-fired/)

Fred Freiberger (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-3rd-season-whos-to-blame.148882/)

Bryan Fuller (https://www.inverse.com/article/11339-why-bryan-fuller-is-a-terrible-choice-for-star-trek-showrunner)

Mark Gatiss (https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes)

Scott Gimple (https://www.reddit.com/r/FearTheWalkingDead/comments/bhj41o/why_does_scott_gimple_get_so_much_hate/)

David Guarascio and Moses Port (https://www.reddit.com/r/community/comments/3iu183/why_is_season_4_so_bad_on_my_first_watch_halfway/)

Marc Guggenheim (https://medium.com/@geneeste/marc-guggenheims-worst-and-most-weinstein-like-hits-1aabd6b6e4ce)

Brenda Hampton (https://tv.avclub.com/the-7th-heaven-musical-is-one-of-the-worst-episodes-of-1798237129)

Courtney Kemp (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-many-power-fans-hated-the-finale-and-have-no-interest-in-watching-the-spin-offs.html/)

Brad Kern (https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/brad-kern-cbs-showrunner-ncis-new-orleans-cbs-harassment-1202641474/)

Marlene King (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/pretty-little-liars-finale-backlash-ugly-side-fandom)

Peter Lenkov (http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-happy-hollywood-ending.html)

Steven Moffat (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-think-Doctor-Who-went-downhill-once-Stephen-Moffat-became-showrunner-He-seems-to-me-to-have-a-much-more-organically-complex-and-nuanced-style-of-writing-than-the-previous-showrunner-Russell-T-Davies)

Ryan Murphy (https://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/dear_ryan_murphy_please_stop/)

Marti Noxon (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/buffy-showrunner-marti-noxon-on-how-season-6-went-too-far-and-was-almost-sadistic)

Tyler Perry (https://www.vibe.com/2020/01/tyler-perry-talks-not-using-outside-writers)

Nancy Pimental (https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/comments/7txhoe/i_might_be_done_with_shameless/)

Julie Plec (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOriginals/comments/fezz1c/julie_plec_is_just_terrible/)

Charles Pratt Jr. (http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/reviews/the-sked-season-finale-review-twisted-2.html)

Shonda Rhimes (https://tv.avclub.com/shonda-rhimes-the-showrunner-who-cried-wolf-1798279084)

Jason Rothenberg (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-jason-rothenbergs-apology-fell-flat-100s-fans-and-real-lessons-learn)

Josh Schwartz (https://www.reddit.com/r/the_oc/comments/ebfkpj/josh_schwartz_is_terrible_terrible_writer_and/)

Mike Scully (https://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?98824-Why-do-people-bash-Mike-Scully-in-particular)

Rebecca Sinclair (https://tvline.com/2011/03/17/90210-showrunner-rebecca-sinclair-leaving/)

Aaron Sorkin (https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-end-of-the-newsroom-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-aaron-sorkin/)

Sarah Treem (https://dachmoda.com/the-affair-showrunner-speaks-out-amid-hostile-work-environment-allegations/)

Joss Whedon (https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/joss-whedons-ex-wife-buffy-creator-is-the-worst-kind-of-male-feminist/)

Dick Wolf (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-06-09/dick-wolf-law-and-order-chicago-pd-fbi-color-of-change)

10 Cancelled TV Shows That Made Obvious Mistakes (https://whatculture.com/tv/10-cancelled-tv-shows-that-made-obvious-mistakes?page=6)

5. Hiring Scott Buck As Showrunner - Iron Fist

https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2023/01/2b33f84a426fba4a-600x338.jpg

Marvel's Iron Fist lasted for two seasons before Netflix cancelled it, and for many the reason for its failure to retain an audience was obvious: hiring showrunner Scott Buck (https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+iron+fist+scott+buck&oq=reddit+iron+fist+scott+buck&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.4893j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).

Though Buck is an acclaimed, award-winning writer for his work on Six Feet Under, Rome, and Dexter, he's also largely credited with "ruining" Dexter after becoming the showrunner during its maligned final three seasons.

As soon as Buck was announced to be overseeing Iron Fist, fans expressed vocal skepticism (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/3vtpkg/marvel_netflixs_iron_fist_lands_scott_buck_as/) about his ability to deliver a quality end result, and so it wasn't remotely surprising when the first season received near-universal critical scorn.

Though season two was a marked improvement, it was simply too little, too late to right the sinking ship, and amid dwindling viewing figures, Iron Fist was cancelled barely a month after its second season was released.

Basically everyone could see the flop coming, save for Marvel Television, who were "knocked off their feet" (https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/dexter-veteran-scott-buck-will-bring-marvel-netflix-iron-fist-screens/) by Buck's pitch and seemingly overlooked his time driving Dexter into the ground.

TMC

02-27-2023, 04:56 AM

Jeph Loeb (https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/s1icbx/i_rewatched_avengers_emh_and_damn_i_realize_that/) and Man of Action (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/my-revamped-s2-of-avengers-emh.5639101/) for you (https://newtcave.blogspot.com/2015/01/review-hulk-and-agents-of-smash-season-1.html) Marvel animation (https://moviechat.org/tt1722512/Ultimate-Spider-Man/5d70c0ebc4484a43be4d7b6f/What-Ruined-Marvel-Animation) fans (https://www.google.com/search?q=jeph+loeb+man+of+action+marvel+animation+reddit&sxsrf=AJOqlzXqH98hmMndRj8u8Hoo3kPzx3RGtA%3A1677488183690&ei=N3D8Y5HjKbCVwbkP5OaE6Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjR2ra6qrX9AhWwSjABHWQzAa0Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=jeph+loeb+man+of+action+marvel+animation+reddit&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQqwI6CggAEEcQ1gQQsAM6BQghEKABSgQIQRgAUIQEWJEKYP0iaAFwAXgAgAHZA4gBsBSSAQUzLTIuNJgBAKABAcgBAsABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) out there (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-is-marvel-so-bad-at-cartoons.1228611/). For some evidence (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/how-different-would-avengers-emh-s2-have-been-if-man-of-action-and-jeph-loeb-never-got-involved-with-the-series-at-all.5788016/), see the second season (https://comicbookmovie.com/comics/marvel-comics/the-avengers-earths-mightiest-heroes-season-2revision-a162174) (or more specifically (https://www.quora.com/If-Loeb-and-Man-of-Action-didnt-get-involved-with-the-second-half-of-Avengers-EMH-S2-what-would-it-have-been-like), the second half of Season 2 (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/458800/avengers-earths-mightiest-heroes-season?page=4)) of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SeasonalRot/WesternAnimation

While The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheAvengersEarthsMightiestHeroes) has several great episodes in its second season, it also suffers from having more filler than the first, especially after (https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-decade-ago-today-just-as-the-mcu-was-just-after-3-movies-in-but-before-it-really-came-together-earths-mightiest-heroes-united-on-disney-xd.292586/) Jeph Loeb (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/JephLoeb) and Man of Action Studios (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/ManOfActionStudios) came on as executive producer and creative consultants, respectively. They created so much filler (https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/2p6tdn/comment/cmu8q5e/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that subplots the original writers set up earlier went unresolved and/or unexplored by the time the show ended. Their run also saw most of the Avengers get pushed Out of Focus, and Out of Character Moments became more frequent. Plus, the animation in this season sometimes seems cheaper, and the awesome theme song permanently got ditched in favor of recaps of old episodes and a promo for the Avengers movie.

TMC

03-30-2023, 09:10 PM

Eric Wallace (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/naieqk/the_strengths_and_weaknesses_of_eric_wallace_as/) if the various (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/tbelm5/do_you_think_eric_wallace_is_a_good_showrunner/) comments (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/uuvgxv/eric_wallace_hate/) online (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/is-anyone-else-losing-faith-in-the-flash-showrunner-eric-wallace.3859026/) about his tenure (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/11dt6sw/overall_consensus_on_the_eric_wallace_era/) as showrunner (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/10xw1mz/in_eric_wallaces_tenure_as_showrunner_the_flash/) on the (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/1144a5j/my_biggest_problems_with_this_show/) latter (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/vrx5bq/is_eric_wallace_the_reason_why_the_last_seasons/) seasons (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/11spkvk/congrats_to_eric_wallace_the_first_half_of_the/) of The Flash (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/ndxla2/eric_wallace_is_ruining_cws_the_flash/) carry (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/wip155/who_was_worse_for_the_arrowverse_marc_guggenheim/) any weight (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/tuyugp/do_you_think_that_eric_wallace_destroyed_the_flash/) for you (https://www.reddit.com/r/FlashTV/comments/m9h0n7/do_you_like_eric_wallace/).

TMC

05-28-2023, 03:44 AM

Alex Duda (https://www.reddit.com/r/KellyClarkson/comments/13o1pb0/the_real_truth_about_alex_duda_on_tkcs/) if the stories (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/13fkqd9/the_kelly_clarkson_show_is_toxic_behind_the/) about how toxic (https://www.reddit.com/r/popheads/comments/13ga07v/kelly_clarkson_speaks_up_against_toxic/) the workplace (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/%E2%80%98kelly-clarkson-show%E2%80%99-is-%E2%80%98traumatizing%E2%80%99-workplace-run-by-%E2%80%98monster%E2%80%99-staffers.5257599/) over at (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/32911728-%E2%80%98the-kelly-clarkson-show%E2%80%99-is-toxic-behind-the-scenes-staffers-say) The Kelly Clarkson Show (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12077959/The-Kelly-Clarkson-accused-toxic-workplace-entails-bullying-verbal-abuse.html) are valid (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/13he0c7/kelly_clarkson_addresses_toxic_workplace/).

icecream

05-30-2023, 11:25 PM

TMC

05-31-2023, 04:54 AM

Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse on Lost. It went from a good environment when J.J. Abrams was the first showrunner, to a highly toxic racist environment after he left. This Vanity Fair article goes into detail.

https://www.vanityfair.com./hollywood/2023/05/lost-tv-show-culture

Cliff notes (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/damon-lindelof-carlton-cuse-accused-of-fostering-racist-hostile-toxic-environment-on-%E2%80%98lost%E2%80%99-set-in-new-book.5278520/post-92823491):

- Pay disputes and the highest paid were the white leads.

- The writers only had four "heroes": Jack, Locke, Kate and Sawyer. Everyone else is not relevant or important enough.

- During early photo shoots, actors of color were often asked to stand in the back row or at the edges of the frame.

- Harold Perrineau complained (https://www.reddit.com/r/lost/comments/13wbnss/harold_perrineau_opened_up_about_getting_fired/) that the second episode of the second season (which revolved around his character) was more focused on Sawyer, and his search for Walt is practically insignificant.

- He also felt that Michael does not get the depth, complexity, or careful storytelling that other characters receive.

- When the writers changed the episode to Michael's life pre-island, he only had two days to shoot it, while Sawyer's flashbacks took more to shoot.

- Perrineau was told Michael would leave the show shortly before the second season finale would film. According to Perrineau, the response from Cuse was, “ ‘Well, you said you don’t have enough work here, so we’re letting you go.’ ”

- He was disappointed that neither Michael and Walt reconnect. Perrineau replied, “Listen, if I’m being really candid, there are all these questions about how they respond to Black people on the show. Sayid gets to meet Nadia again, and Desmond and Penny hook up again, but a little Black boy and his father hooking up, that wasn’t interesting? Instead, Walt just winds up being another fatherless child. It plays into a really big, weird stereotype and, being a Black person myself, that wasn’t so interesting.”

- It didn't take long for writer Monica Owusu-Breen to realize that a lot of people at Lost viewed her and her writing partner Alison Schapker as, essentially, Tailies. It became a wry running joke between them, Owusu-Breen told me: “Everyone was real nice to us for the first few days. And then they wanted us dead.”

- She and Schapker were assigned to write the episode where Mr. Eko dies, and Cuse made suggestions to lynch him.

- Carlton Cuse is not respected among writers.

- When someone on staff was adopting an Asian child, one person said to another writer that “no grandparent wants a slanty-eyed grandchild.”

- When actor Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje’s picture was on the writers room table, someone was told to remove their nearby wallet “before he steals it.”

- When Owusu-Breen and others were riding in a van on a trip, in answer to a question about the luggage, one writer—using a Yiddish word—said, “Let the schvartze take it.”

- The only Asian American writer was called Korean, as in, “Korean, take the board.”

- When a woman entered the writers room carrying a binder, two sources said, a male writer asked her what it was. She said it was the HR manual for the studio, and he responded, “Why don’t you take off your top and tell us about it?”

- Finally, when Perrineau’s Lost departure came up, Lindelof said, according to multiple sources, that the actor “called me racist, so I fired his ass.”

- “Damon once said, ‘I don’t trust any writer who isn’t miserable, because that tells me you don’t care,’ ” according to writer-producer Melinda Hsu Taylor. During her time at Lost, Hsu Taylor learned to keep eyeliner in her desk at the office: “You don’t want to have to go to the bathroom to redo your eyeliner. If you cry at work, you don’t want people to see that you’ve been crying.”

- By the time she arrived for the drama’s last two seasons, she’d heard stories about how it wasn’t unusual for high-level writers to speak “fake Korean”—gibberish that they pretended was Korean—and laugh about it.

- Hsu Taylor wrote "Ab Aeterno", perhaps the best in the final season, and was offended that Cuse wanted credit for writing it.

- She also felt she was punished for writing the episode (and receiving credit).

Variety (https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/lost-showrunners-racism-toxic-writers-room-damon-lindelof-1235628095/), Hollywood Reporter, Deadline (https://deadline.com/2023/05/damon-lindelof-carlton-cuse-lost-toxicity-new-book-maureen-ryan-1235382943/), and Entertainment Weekly all now have stories about (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/13vp9cd/lost_illusions_the_untold_story_of_the_hit_shows/) the toxic Lost production (https://www.reddit.com/r/lost/comments/13vqfee/lost_illusions_the_untold_story_of_the_hit_shows/), all posted within the last two hours.

TMC

07-05-2023, 12:38 AM

I'm on the fence regarding whether or not Anne Beatts (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/04/anne-beatts-interview-obituary-snl-square-pegs) was a bad showrunner or not (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=388071). She did give us (https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+Anne+Beatts+Square+Pegs+site:www.reddit.com&sxsrf=AB5stBhq33h5Yh6jSrMbxjTftLkTVhnfEA:1688531642179&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQyOPF3vb_AhVSkYkEHStkBN4QrQIoBHoECBEQBQ&biw=1241&bih=757&dpr=1#ip=1) Square Pegs (https://www.google.com/search?q=recent+datalounge+%22square+pegs%22+site:www.datalounge.com&sxsrf=AB5stBg3EYWEu4gDG7tzHhV-eM1Hf0AlXw:1688532826427&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ7L364vb_AhVMlIkEHaIAAUMQrQIoBHoECBMQBQ), which despite its one season run, is now considered (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125314/http://www.jumptheshark.com/s/squarepegs.htm) a cult classic (https://www.google.com/search?q=cult+classic+square+pegs&sxsrf=AB5stBiIJu7EplxTiEcUAcNEr5ffwexCCg%3A1688532829383&ei=XfekZL3vFrKjptQPp-CgkAg&ved=0ahUKEwj9kfL74vb_AhWykYkEHScwCIIQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=cult+classic+square+pegs&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQoAE6BwgjEOoCECc6FQgAEAMQjwEQ6gIQtAIQjAMQ5QIYAToICC4QigUQkQI6BwgAEIoFEEM6EwguEIoFELEDEIMBEMcBENEDEAo6FgguEIoFEJECEJcFENwEEN4EEN8EGAI6EAgAEIAEEBQQhwIQsQMQgwE6CAgAEIAEELEDOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToKCAAQgAQQFBCHAjoFCC4QgAQ6BQgAEIAEOggILhCABBDUAkoECEEYAFDjBViaImDoJWgBcAB4AoAB3gSIAZEVkgEHMy0yLjEuM5gBAKABAbABFMABAdoBBggBEAEYC9oBBggCEAEYFA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp). But the reason (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129443) why Square Pegs wasn't on the air very long (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=332751) is because of the reports that there was a lot of drug use and sex going on behind the scenes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPnhxxwP3-Q&lc=Ugwu70PPgD3YlB-Ceql4AaABAg). And it's likely that Beatts as showrunner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPnhxxwP3-Q&lc=UgzvkExywqGjU88Kpwt4AaABAg), should've kept (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPnhxxwP3-Q&lc=Ugwbo-jXa8oJbxxpkTd4AaABAg) a closer eye on the production environment.

Anne Beatts later went on to produce (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=410339) the first season (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/unpopular-opinion-a-different-world-season-1-was-the-best.4732807/) of A Different World (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/is-season-1-of-a-different-world-necessary.3786760/). And the general opinion (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/ADifferentWorld) is that the show finally hit its grove or stride in the second season (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-06-ca-4490-story.html), when Debbie Allen (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=417597) took over (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/28606326-a-different-world-changed-the-world-says-a-grandiose-debbie-allen) as the showrunner. Whereas I guess, cynically, Beatts was accused of merely using A Different World to redo Square Pegs albeit in a college setting.

This is from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5uq2tZFeXjUJ:https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1987-09-24-8703150585-story.html+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) in September 1987, when A Different World was about to premiere:
Anne Beatts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Beatts), a former writer for National Lampoon magazine and Saturday Night Live, and co-creator of the execrable CBS nerd sitcom of a few seasons ago, Square Pegs, was hired to concoct A Different World (https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/206028317/). Beatts, who is highly articulate and gives clever interviews in which she denounces the stale sitcoms of past years, is, unfortunately, incapable of coming up with anything much better. Her reputation is based largely on a handful of inexplicably good reviews that Square Pegs netted in its one season.

In A Different World (https://www.bet.com/article/7b6kyr/jasmine-guy-qa), Beatts proves only that she is capable of developing college stereotypes as readily as she wrote their high school equivalents in Square Pegs (https://web.archive.org/web/20140407134900/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3155578-square-pegs-id-like-it-if-they-liked-us-but-i-dont-think-they-like-us/page-3#entry8434866).

Here's a Rolling Stone article (https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/square-pegs-the-grody-bunch-57888/) from around the time that Square Pegs was on the air:
Other Beatts (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0064186/) projects – a TV show based on Titters, a movie update of The Women, a murder-mystery comedy – were all in various holding patterns when Square Pegs was bought by CBS. “There was a point during the filming of the pilot,” LeMasters recalls, “when I would have been perfectly willing to fire Anne Beatts. I began to think Anne was the best of Square Pegs and, simultaneously, the worst of Square Pegs. There are definite problems with her as a producer. She has a desire, for instance, not to tell a story, to just have interesting characters who tell clever jokes.

“The show, then, becomes overly hip and difficult to follow unless you are a regular viewer. If a viewer hasn’t seen prior episodes or isn’t familiar with the characters, he will get lost and turn the dial. But CBS cannot write the scripts. All we can do is send notes, and if Anne, as the producer, chooses to ignore them, there’s very little we can do. Finally, Anne Beatts is this show.”

TMC

07-22-2023, 06:59 AM

TMC

08-30-2023, 06:39 AM

Sam Simon (https://mrbrookesabroad.wordpress.com/2015/03/10/a-sam-simon-lament-depression-in-the-creative-industry/) if the stories (https://bobsegarini.wordpress.com/2021/10/05/george-carlin-part-three-simon-says/) about his behavior while producing The George Carlin Show (https://youtu.be/4l_wiOX6jAw) on Fox back in the '90s (https://www.vulture.com/2018/06/looking-back-at-the-george-carlin-show.html) carry any weight (https://inthenews.rubbercat.net/2008/06/george-carlin-hated-sam-simon/).

dee2364

08-30-2023, 01:30 PM

TMC

08-30-2023, 08:15 PM

TMC

09-03-2023, 10:17 PM

v6oAE58AVmM

Ren and Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon is Fundamentally Broken: 0:00

Defending Ren Seeks Help: 48:20

One Sick Little Monkey: The History of John K's Career: 1:02:20

Everything You Need to Know About Ren and Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon: 1:29:53

LANGUAGE WARNING

iD6iyVv_OTk

Ren & Stimpy (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WesternAnimation/TheRenAndStimpyShow) is one of the most iconic cartoons (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/203-cartoons-and-animation/75687980) from the 1990s but John K (its creator) effectively (https://www.reddit.com/r/cartoons/comments/1050zd8/who_do_you_think_the_most_disliked_person_to_ever/) destroyed (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031124052/http://www.jumptheshark.com/r/renandstimpy.htm) his own show (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/613098/ren-stimpy-show) and legacy (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/571903/kricfalusi-stimpy-creator-sexual-abuser?page=1). How did this happen? What did he do? Well, it's a LOT worse than you think...

dee2364

09-05-2023, 08:57 AM

Below are videos about the infamous sandbagging of Billy West by Howard Stern. Stern invited John Kricfalusi on to completely ruin West's career, when he was just breaking into the business with Ren and Stimpy. Not surprisingly, West immediately bailed from the Stern Show and became a voiceover legend in the animation industry. Both Stern and John K., who started out as cult figures, are becoming obscure because of how mental they are.

[WARNING: LANGUAGE]

wZPuZ1sYiq0&t=1s

This is the actual video:

SW2Y49zQfAE

I was really proud of West for holding his own against these two sociopaths, and didn't blame him for walking away from the Stern Show when this entire incident happened.

TMC

09-07-2023, 09:48 PM

TMC

09-08-2023, 10:29 PM

Bombshell Jimmy Fallon Report Alleges Toxic Workplace With "Crying Rooms" & "Outbursts" From Fallon (https://screenrant.com/tonight-show-jimmy-fallon-allegations-workplace-toxic-report/)

Jimmy Fallon (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=6195330&postcount=10) and a group of showrunners behind The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon are accused (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=445231) of creating and perpetuating a toxic workplace.

Jimmy Fallon Is So Rude to Crew That Jerry Seinfeld Made Him Apologize (https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/126786051.html?page=3)

Showrunners were no better (https://radaronline.com/p/jimmy-fallon-showrunner-quit-toxic-workplace-investigation/). Jamie Granet-Bederman (https://opoyi.com/entertainment/who-is-jamie-granet-bederman-former-tonight-show-showrunner/) asked one Black employee (https://www.looper.com/1388024/the-tonight-show-jimmy-fallon-employees-expose-abuse-allegations/), "What is going on with your hair?" That person also witnessed instances (https://www.celebitchy.com/834632/rs_jimmy_fallon_has_fostered_a_toxic_workplace_at_the_tonight_show/#comments) of Granet-Bederman fatshaming (https://www.delish.com/food-news/a45036426/jimmy-fallon-body-shaming/), saying things like (https://www.delish.com/food-news/a45036426/jimmy-fallon-body-shaming/), "We’re just eating a lot today and not caring about what we look like?"

TMC

09-18-2023, 03:31 AM

Ted Bergmann (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bergmann) at least from what I've gathered (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5946733&postcount=26) in the Three's Company forums.

The problem with Bergmann (https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/ted-bergmann) was that he was very old school. He took what he learned while working at the DuMont network back in the 1950s and applied them to Three's Company (https://jacksonupperco.com/tag/threes-company/) as well as its spin-offs (https://www.countryliving.com/life/entertainment/a44890338/the-real-story-behind-the-threes-company-spinoff/), The Ropers (https://jacksonupperco.com/2015/06/24/why-did-i-spend-14-hours-of-my-life-watching-the-ropers/) and Three's a Crowd (https://jacksonupperco.com/2015/07/29/when-three-became-a-crowd-a-look-at-the-last-threes-company-spin-off/). That meant that things from a production standpoint were very primitive, whether it be the cheap sets, budget writing, hasty productions, very few special effects, etc. And consequently, they didn't seem didn't care too much about character growth, whether storylines actually made sense (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=413435), and past storylines and characters were just forgotten about. This lack of continuity also explains why (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5462897&postcount=7) actors used over and over in different roles.

When you really think about it, the writing for Three's Company (https://web.archive.org/web/20140404234709/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3111823-threes-company/) was just plain awful for the most part (https://www.quora.com/What-old-television-shows-have-not-aged-well/answer/Nicholas-Corwin). But the comedic timing and chemistry between the cast was able to elevate it and make it "work" (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=5786467&postcount=1) for what it otherwise was.

Also, again this is from what I've gathered, by the 1980s, both Bergmann's production techniques and attitudes towards the female cast felt very old-fashioned. To give you an idea, if Joyce DeWitt objected to something, it wasn't addressed but if John Ritter objected, it would be dealt with.

TMC

10-03-2023, 09:00 PM

Fired Arrow and The Flash executive producer Andrew Kreisberg arrested for "forcible touching" at a Bar Mitzvah (https://ew.com/tv/producer-andrew-kreisberg-arrested-forcible-touching/#:~:text=Embattled%20producer%20Andrew%20Kreisberg%20was,Pleasantville%2C%20N.Y.%20in%20May%202022.)

Embattled producer (https://www.google.com/search?q=lipstick+alley+Andrew+Kreisberg&sca_esv=570532409&sxsrf=AM9HkKkXlJEx4NOSEPrpn6q2Ov8WlDGKMQ%3A1696381164727&ei=7LgcZZSHLPbl0PEPj9GcyA8&ved=0ahUKEwiUreilmNuBAxX2MjQIHY8oB_kQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=lipstick+alley+Andrew+Kreisberg&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiH2xpcHN0aWNrIGFsbGV5IEFuZHJldyBLcmVpc2JlcmcyBRAAGKIEMgUQABiiBEjrIVAAWI4bcAJ4AZABAJgBXaABwwmqAQIxN7gBA8gBAPgBAcICDhAuGIoFGLEDGIMBGJECwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAgcQABiKBRhDwgIFEAAYgATCAgYQABgHGB7CAh0QLhiKBRixAxiDARiRAhiXBRjcBBjeBBjfBNgBAcICCBAAGAgYBxgewgIIECEYoAEYwwTCAggQABiJBRiiBMICChAhGKABGMMEGAriAwQYACBBiAYBugYGCAEQARgU&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) Andrew Kreisberg (https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+Andrew+Kreisberg&sca_esv=570532409&sxsrf=AM9HkKnDnCuWH20gEX-3MewUGMvuMdGkHQ%3A1696381106793&ei=srgcZcWGMPqV0PEPr4yR-AM&ved=0ahUKEwjFp5iKmNuBAxX6CjQIHS9GBD8Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=reddit+Andrew+Kreisberg&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiF3JlZGRpdCBBbmRyZXcgS3JlaXNiZXJnMgYQABgWGB5IrQRQAFjKAXAAeACQAQCYAUSgAXqqAQEyuAEDyAEA-AEB-AECwgIHECMYigUYJ8ICEBAAGIAEGBQYhwIYsQMYgwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAeIDBBgAIEGIBgE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) was arrested and charged with forcible touching following an alleged incident at a bar mitzvah in Westchester County, N.Y. in March. According to court documents obtained by Vanity Fair, the incident occurred in Pleasantville, N.Y. in May 2022.

TMC

10-28-2023, 05:11 AM

Cidre ruined the show. Other than giving JR a proper funeral and finally explaining how Pam died the rest of the series was terrible. She made Cliff into a monster. If she wants us to not count the reunion movies as cannon, I'd rather just forget this TNT joke of a show.

Here's a pretty detailed write up (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/dallas-2012-revival-was-a-hot-mess.5415049/) on how misconceived the 2012 Dallas (https://web.archive.org/web/20140329232837/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3211033-dallas-an-80s-classic-is-brought-back/?view=getnewpost) revival (https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas_TV_Show/comments/11kmv8b/what_did_people_think_about_the_dallas_reboot/) was under (https://www.google.com/search?q=tellytalk+Cynthia+Cidre+site:www.tellytalk.net&sca_esv=577408113&sxsrf=AM9HkKlihDX-i-b_y5aRHmLC2ygl0UAapw:1698484493241&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP4IDns5iCAxWXnWoFHdqcB_UQrQIoBHoECBMQBQ&biw=1600&bih=773&dpr=1) Cynthia Cidre's watch (https://www.google.com/search?q=datalounge+Cynthia+Cidre&sca_esv=577408113&sxsrf=AM9HkKm834lJKMXvt4MDcPl3JCFvLwGqZA%3A1698484385050&ei=odA8ZYvWArOpqtsPy-qlsAo&ved=0ahUKEwjLqrWzs5iCAxWzlGoFHUt1CaYQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=datalounge+Cynthia+Cidre&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGGRhdGFsb3VuZ2UgQ3ludGhpYSBDaWRyZTIIECEYoAEYwwRI1aYDUNSZA1iRpANwAXgAkAEBmAHnA6ABsA6qAQcyLTMuMi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIIEAAYogQYsAPiAwQYASBBiAYBkAYC&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1).

TMC

12-24-2023, 02:04 AM

Maurice Hurley (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/leonard-maizlish-and-maurice-hurley.278298/), who was the de facto (https://answeregy.com/are/are-the-borg-aware-of-q.php) showrunner (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/otrot8/is_maurice_hurley_a_visionary_when_it_comes_to/) for Star Trek: The Next Generation (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27220855-dirt-from-the-star-trek-the-next-generation-set) for about half way into its first season (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/my-theory-about-tng-season-1-writing-out-tasha-yar.301715/) and for all (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/pbs-chaos-on-the-bridge-special.291242/) of its second season (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/what-are-your-controversial-star-trek-opinions.304751/page-405#post-14086015). Simply put, if you ever wonder why (https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Dr-Beverly-Crusher-move-from-being-the-head-of-Starfleet-Medical-back-to-being-the-Enterprises-chief-medical-officer/answer/Jason-St-Pierre-3) Gates McFadden (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/856saz/why_did_gates_mcfadden_beverly_crusher_really/) (Dr. Beverly Crusher) isn't in (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-truth-behind-mcfaddens-absence-in-the-second-season.245383/) Season 2 (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-truth-behind-mcfaddens-absence-in-the-second-season.245383/) and we instead have (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/o532l/why_did_they_replace_dr_crushers_character_with/) Diana Muldaur (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/90r4ld/im_watching_next_generation_for_the_first_time/) as (https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Doctor-Pulaski-2nd-season-of-TNG-almost-universally-disliked-by-Trek-fans) the chief medical officer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhvO85FmQtY) (Dr. Katherine Pulaski (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC4K1mx0SPQ)) on the Enterprise instead, it's all Hurley (https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/8ow12r/comment/e08noqf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)'s fault (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2021/06/06/maurice-hurley-suggested-firing-entire-tng-cast/). McFadden was invited back (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/diana-muldaur-and-the-tng-cast.137743/) to the show in Season 3, incidentally around the same time (https://www.quora.com/Beyond-writing-why-did-Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation-improve-so-much-after-season-2-The-extras-acting-music-and-everything-about-The-Royale-is-just-so-ridiculous-but-then-things-improve-so-much-Why) that Hurley (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/what-is-maurice-hurleys-opinion-on-post-tng-season-2.33843/) departed (https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136735-nitpicking-the-next-generation/). It's also incidentally, the moment (https://www.quora.com/How-much-should-we-credit-Michael-Piller-with-saving-Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation-Was-he-truly-a-better-head-writer-than-Maurice-Hurley-How-good-are-the-third-season-s-scripts-compared-to-the-second-s) that many (https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-show-runners-impact-TV-shows) fans (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/15536836-watching-star-trek-the-next-generation-marathon-on-bbc) believe (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/StarTrekTheNextGeneration) that TNG (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031145616/http://www.jumptheshark.com/s/startrektng.htm) really started (https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/8ow12r/comment/e0n5cpl/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to find its groove (https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/c452dy/tng_greatly_improved_with_season_3_was/).

TNG Showrunner “Hated Gates”: Dr. Crusher’s Exit Explained By Star Trek Producer (https://screenrant.com/star-trek-tng-showrunner-maurice-hurley-hated-gates-mcfadden/)

Gates McFadden (https://www.google.com/search?q=Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+Reddit&sca_esv=d0a1a962d8258ae9&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=AM9HkKnSbC747YAezOynYZSVn4Y43qNMGw%3A1703397740631&ei=bMmHZYuFJvCzwt0P0OK3gAs&ved=0ahUKEwiL6_aJs6eDAxXwmbAFHVDxDbAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+Reddit&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJE1hdXJpY2UgSHVybGV5IEdhdGVzIE1jRmFkZGVuIFJlZGRpdEiMBFAAWABwAHgAkAEAmAHKAaABygGqAQMyLTG4AQPIAQD4AQHiAwQYACBBiAYB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) was asked to leave (https://www.google.com/search?q=trekbbs+Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+site%3Awww.trekbbs.com&sca_esv=d0a1a962d8258ae9&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=AM9HkKlPO3_9SRhJVTDzmxcaZAULqtSkEg%3A1703397326991&ei=zseHZYKKPJOFkvQPotKA0A8&ved=0ahUKEwiCqdjEsaeDAxWTgoQIHSIpAPoQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=trekbbs+Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+site%3Awww.trekbbs.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiOnRyZWtiYnMgTWF1cmljZSBIdXJsZXkgR2F0ZXMgTWNGYWRkZW4gc2l0ZTp3d3cudHJla2Jicy5jb21I4SNQ0BFY2h5wAngAkAEAmAGEBaAB9wyqAQkyLTEuMS4xLjG4AQPIAQD4AQHiAwQYASBBiAYB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1) Star Trek: The Next Generation after season 1, and executive producer Rick Berman offers some insight (https://www.google.com/search?q=Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+site:www.quora.com&sca_esv=d0a1a962d8258ae9&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=AM9HkKlqah8Rbts1Vt9zQ1PnGrh21DPx8w:1703397796087&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjt3K-ks6eDAxUMRzABHeYJCfoQrQIoBHoECBYQBQ&biw=1600&bih=773&dpr=1) into her exit (https://www.google.com/search?q=Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+datalounge&sca_esv=d0a1a962d8258ae9&sca_upv=1&biw=1600&bih=773&sxsrf=AM9HkKmZ23foKcDyemZXaXuHCQ8SwNWY8g%3A1703397799936&ei=p8mHZejgOJmawbkPsv2bgAg&ved=0ahUKEwio0Jqms6eDAxUZTTABHbL-BoAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Maurice+Hurley+Gates+McFadden+datalounge&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiKE1hdXJpY2UgSHVybGV5IEdhdGVzIE1jRmFkZGVuIGRhdGFsb3VuZ2UyBRAhGKABSIQQUABYtQxwAHgAkAECmAH9BKAB8huqAQswLjIuNy4wLjIuMbgBA8gBAPgBAcICBBAjGCfCAgYQABgWGB7iAwQYACBBiAYB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp).

TMC

01-09-2024, 08:49 PM

I already mentioned Fred Freiberger, but here are other showrunners from the linked article (https://www.gamesradar.com/11-sci-fi-shows-ruined-new-showrunners/):

Jay Firestone (https://mutantxarchive.livejournal.com/136747.html), Adam Haight (https://mutantxarchive.livejournal.com/136671.html), and Josanne B. Lovick (Andromeda (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125335/http://www.jumptheshark.com/a/andromeda.htm)), working (https://books.google.com/books?id=pQIDAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=kevin+sorbo+ruined+andromeda&source=bl&ots=WOhwfPyKp4&sig=ACfU3U27ZyPmJmnjl_peXqle-0hzZ_9xNg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwis1bf55t73AhVoDEQIHUb7ADE4ChDoAXoECCMQAw#v=onepage&q=kevin%20sorbo%20ruined%20andromeda&f=false) on the behalf (more or less) of Kevin Sorbo (https://moviechat.org/tt0213327/Andromeda/58c7b40af9fcca09a0d443e0/Kevin-Sorbo-ruined-this-show).

Sera Gamble (https://blastmagazine.com/2013/10/16/5-ways-sera-gamble-ruined-supernatural/) (Supernatural (https://www.reddit.com/r/Supernatural/comments/ao9oyo/no_spoiler_sera_gamble/))

Stephen Godchaux (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-new-dead-like-me-movie-does-suck-minor-spoilers.82203/) and John Masius (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoQZTN7iBog)(Dead Like Me (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125223/http://www.jumptheshark.com/d/deadlikeme.htm))

Vere Lorrimer (https://fakegeekboy.wordpress.com/2020/04/18/blakes-7-final-foray/) (Blake's 7 (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031135914/http://www.jumptheshark.com/b/blakes7.htm))

John Mantley (https://musingsofamiddleagedgeek.blog/2019/02/26/the-year-is-1979-40-years-of-buck-rogers-in-the-25th-century/) (Buck Rogers in the 25th Century (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125352/http://www.jumptheshark.com/b/buckrogers.htm))

John Nathan-Turner (https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/7splfw/is_john_nathanturner_pretty_universally_hated_by/) (Doctor Who (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125223/http://www.jumptheshark.com/d/doctorwho.htm))

Here's a brief rundown (https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Doctor-Who-go-so-badly-wrong-in-the-eighties-Did-the-BBC-deliberately-sabotage-the-programme/answer/Chris-Richardson-1) of "highlights" from John Nathan-Turner (https://www.google.com/search?q=john+nathan+turner+doctor+who+site:www.reddit.com&sca_esv=597055585&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dnWqGJDEthSqtqjOW0C-ZUB7wqA:1704847678596&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjImZ3CzNGDAxW6LUQIHQ2wDksQrQIoBHoECGMQBQ&biw=1920&bih=1075&dpr=1)'s tenure (https://www.google.com/search?q=john+nathan+turner+doctor+who+site%3Aforums.digitalspy.com&sca_esv=597055585&biw=1920&bih=1075&sxsrf=ACQVn0_n9JlfU8dB70DQ5935xKUsn1-b5w%3A1704847885690&ei=DeqdZbDZKZTBkPIPqOqQ0Ak&ved=0ahUKEwjwk_2kzdGDAxWUIEQIHSg1BJoQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=john+nathan+turner+doctor+who+site%3Aforums.digitalspy.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiOGpvaG4gbmF0aGFuIHR1cm5lciBkb2N0b3Igd2hvIHNpdGU6Zm9ydW1zLmRpZ2l0YWxzcHkuY29tSK8DUABYAHAAeACQAQCYASygASyqAQExuAEDyAEA-AEB4gMEGAAgQYgGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) as the showrunner for Doctor Who:
Some showrunners bad decisions are only so bad that the viewers deem them to be okay. The producer, John Nathan-Turner (https://www.google.com/search?q=john+nathan+turner+doctor+who+quora&sca_esv=597055585&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dnWqGJDEthSqtqjOW0C-ZUB7wqA%3A1704847678596&ei=PumdZciCJLrbkPIPjeC62AQ&ved=0ahUKEwjImZ3CzNGDAxW6LUQIHQ2wDksQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=john+nathan+turner+doctor+who+quora&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiI2pvaG4gbmF0aGFuIHR1cm5lciBkb2N0b3Igd2hvIHF1b3JhMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogRItQxQ2wRY1gpwAHgAkAEAmAFfoAHnBKoBATe4AQPIAQD4AQHCAgcQIxiwAxgnwgIIEC4YgAQYsAPCAgQQIxgnwgIGEAAYFhgewgIFECEYoAHCAgUQIRirAuIDBBgBIEGIBgGQBgI&sclient=gws-wiz-serp), who came in towards the end of Tom Baker's run made bad decisions that were just bad. His vision misfires, repeatedly.

To give a tiny example, he insisted that Janet Fielding's character Tegan Jovanka (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegan_Jovanka) keep the lump of a hairdo she had on her head because he was convinced it would become a trend and, soon, everyone would be heading into the hairdressers to ask for a Tegan:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d26af45ae4587e04bab277af5e9bf4e6

To give another, he thought it a brilliant idea to parachute in stars from light entertainment whenever possible. This led to Richard Briers, a brilliant sit-com actor, being brought in to play a nerdy, totalitarian dictator. He delivered his lines in the same monotonous voice that everyone uses when parodying a nerd - you know the one. The character later becomes zombified and, guess what, delivers his lines in the same parody of a zombie that everyone uses when needed. Beryl Reid, an actor renowned at the time for playing acerbic, dotty old ladies was dropped into a part where she was supposed to be an ex-elite military commander. She was happy to admit at the time that she had no idea what she was doing or why she was there (and it showed).

And, of course, he presides over Colin Baker’s Sixth Doctor with the ridiculous costume and unpleasant demeanor. Nathan-Turner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nathan-Turner#Contentious_decisions) had been promoted to producer which was beyond his abilities and judgement but no-one else wanted him on their shows so he stayed at Doctor Who.

TMC

02-07-2024, 01:57 AM

I've never believed that Joss Whedon was a bad showrunner, even though he made some missteps.

Marti Noxon never should have been tapped to be an executive producer on BtVS; she only ever wrote a couple of good episodes, and didn't seem to have the ability to provide much continuity between episodes, leading to an uneven feeling to Season 6.

To go back a bit on Joss Whedon (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1akjns5/comment/kp8ptt8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I think that I've talked about this already but he was allegedly (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/lgx0zq/charisma_carpenter_discusses_joss_whedons_abusive/) so upset (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1akjns5/what_episode_of_a_show_displays_how_petty_the/) with Charisma Carpenter (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/lkdr48/i_thought_the_terrible_way_joss_treated_charisma/) getting pregnant (https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/udn70k/poor_charisma_carpenter/) during (https://collider.com/slayers-podcast-cordelia-chase/) the production (https://www.google.com/search?q=cordelia+chase+character+assassination+site:www.reddit.com&sca_esv=aabc678fcf6e2e2b&sxsrf=ACQVn0-bZhBUPrsRS_lEAsVDBtl481FCoQ:1707285776679&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii1_6Rx5iEAxVBSzABHfG-DYQQrQIoBHoECBcQBQ&biw=1600&bih=780&dpr=1#ip=1) of Angel (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/charisma-carpenter-buffy-angel-boss-joss-whedon-is-still-unable-to-be-accountable-and-just-apologize.4783013/) that he made her character (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27925888-is-this-it-for-joss-whedon-), Cordelia (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/30104349-joss-whedon-redemption-tour-begins) the villain of her last season (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/charisma-carpenter-talks-about-joss-whedon-and-his-abuse.4385842/) and also made (https://emmameade.com/2014/12/05/season-4-of-angel-what-was-joss-whedon-thinking/) her have sex with her character's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordelia_Chase) boyfriend's son and go into a coma after childbirth.

TMC

02-07-2024, 02:26 AM

TMC

02-22-2024, 09:14 PM

YoS8-xZLdYw

1U0dwhfvowM

Hello, today I am talking about Sam Levinson and how he makes terrible art and is not a good guy. Enjoy!

intro 00:00
part 1: clowning on garbage 01:45
part 2: sometimes Sam Levinson is not garbage 15:13
part 3: Sam Levinson is a nepo baby who does not deserve his success 17:50

TMC

02-28-2024, 04:51 AM

David Chase, yes the same David Chase (https://www.reddit.com/r/northernexposure/comments/qlwfpc/interview_with_david_chase_i_think_informs_why_he/) who gave us (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/iaciw0/about_30_years_late_to_the_party_northern/) The Sopranos (https://www.reddit.com/r/thesopranos/comments/196syky/is_david_chase_a_onetrick_pony/). I'm specifically, referencing his time as showrunner (http://twoaspirinsandacomedy.com/extras/Ch8-Producing.html) for Northern Exposure (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/NorthernExposure) come its fifth season (https://www.reddit.com/r/northernexposure/comments/14xnzjo/season_5/). Chase openly despised (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/88725-northern-exposure-general-discussion/page/2/) the show (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125344/http://www.jumptheshark.com/n/northernexposure.htm)'s basic premise—calling it (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=302197&page=6) "...something I couldn't understand." (http://www.rogerebert.com/demanders/magical-realism-nothern-exposure-25-years-later) He also admittedly only took the job (https://www.city-data.com/forum/tv/23424-northern-exposure-who-still-moosehead-after-4.html) for the paycheck.

TMC

03-18-2024, 07:26 PM

I've briefly mentioned him once before, but this time I go further in discussing Dan Schneider (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/DanSchneider), who created/executive produced All That, The Amanda Show, Drake & Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly (https://dbknews.com/2018/04/09/nickelodeon-dan-schneider-abuse-i-carly/), Victorious, Sam & Cat, Henry Danger, and Game Shakers for Nickelodeon (https://bruinvoice.net/6670/entertainment/sexual-exploitation-at-nickelodeon/). I don't know where else to begin except to say that with all due respect, Schneider's brand of comedy is in my estimation, an acquired taste.

He has this extremely bizarre (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/888unq/the_amanda_show_dan_schneiders_bizarre_humor_gone/dwiuyuc/) sense of humor that could often show a dark (https://web.archive.org/web/20140403191256/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3114981-all-that-welcome-to-good-burger/page-3#entry3470596) and mean-spirited (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/why-is-nick-so-obsessed-with-mean-spirited-cartoons.5550062/post-84507011) edge. Schneider seems to love putting random non-sequiturs throughout his shows, where his characters do or say something just because and the randomness of it is supposed to be funny. I'm guessing that his shows were so successful with teens, adults, and children because of all of the crazy, loud (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/98kij3/the_dan_schneider_conspiracy_a_scandal_at/e4gv6nz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), childish, and weird characters being showcased.

I must add however, that the dialogue and writing in these shows are occasionally, laced (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(iCarly)) with sexual innuendos (https://danschneideruniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Innuendo_(Victorious)) and double entendres. Not only that, but he also litters his shows with what could be considered unpleasant stereotypes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BU4LS1mxw) about minorities (especially black women (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/victorious-was-anti-black-women.3026680/)). He also likes to incorporate (https://adri.substack.com/p/what-we-dont-talk-about-when-we-talk) his obvious foot fetish in his shows.

Maybe it's really just a coincidence, but Schneider also always seemed to pit the girls on his shows against (https://youtu.be/xOU1Y9fev14) each other. This even extends to his non-Nickelodeon shows like What I Like About You (https://moviechat.org/tt0321018/What-I-Like-About-You/58c7b9dff9fcca09a0d7e5da/Bynes-and-Garth-hated-each-other) with Amanda Bynes and Jennie Garth.

Don't take my word for it, but there's a "blind item" (https://goo.gl/XTjiQk) online (http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2014/MARCH.html) that suggests that Nickelodeon wanted to get rid of Victorious (despite its popularity) as fast as possible before the proverbial "stuff hit the fan". There was allegedly a lot of sex and drugs going on behind the scenes that would've been extremely bad for Nickelodeon's image.

What we do know for sure however, is the behind the scenes (http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/future-of-nickelodeon-series-sam-cat-in-limbo-amidst-behind-the-scenes-drama/) mess (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroubledProduction/LiveActionTV) that was Sam & Cat:

The problems seemed to start when, instead of being renewed for a second season, the series had its first season episode order doubled from 20 to 40. This is an unheard-of number for a scripted show; most American series don't exceed 24 episodes a season, with cable shows often having far less. (Even in the 1950s, when it was not uncommon for series to have upwards of 30 episodes per season, this would have been unheard of.) This meant that the cast and crew didn't get a break from their schedule and also didn't get to possibly renegotiate contracts between seasons.
This grueling schedule put a strain on everybody, with McCurdy and Grande both reportedly ready to move on. Both stars began showing up late on set, and McCurdy did not appear at the Kids Choice Awards in 2014, saying point-blank on Twitter the reason was the way she was treated by Nickelodeon. There was also the Contractual Purity of being young adults working at the kid-friendly Nickelodeon; Grande's music career has taken off, and McCurdy was struggling with personal problems, including her mother's death in late 2013 and the leak of several racy (though not explicit) photos.
Amidst all of this, the show wasn't renewed for a second season and instead was placed on "permanent hiatus", with all crew members let go apart from post-production to finish the episodes already filmed. Nick then officially cancelled (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/nickelodeons-sam-cat-canceled-718195) the show.

Since Dan Schneider (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1bduwkz/nickelodeon_reacts_to_drake_bells_reveal_of/) is in the news (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1bdrs9r/four_takeaways_from_quiet_on_set_the_dark_side_of/) again (https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/1bghsvx/anyone_plan_to_watch_quiet_on_set/) due to Investigation Discovery (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=458404)'s recent (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/34006079--quiet-on-set-....this-looks-gooood!) release (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv-a-nickelodeon-and-dan-schneider-expos%C3%A9.5519991/) of the two part series (https://www.resetera.com/threads/%E2%80%98quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv%E2%80%99-trailer-4-part-docu-series-about-dan-schneiders-nickelodeon-reign-out-mar-17.814758/page-2) Quiet on Set (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/143114-quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv-general-discussion/), here's some links that were just posted on The Daily Mail:

Disturbing footage of Nickelodeon 'abuser' Dan Schneider filming in a HOT TUB with a 16-YEAR-OLD bikini-clad Amanda Bynes resurfaces online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13210225/dan-scheider-nickelodeon-hot-tub-footage-amanda-bynes-quiet-set.html)

Dan Schneider's ex-assistant slams the 'toxic' Nickelodeon creator as a 'f***ing a**hole' and 'psychological tormenter' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13211405/dan-schneider-former-assistant-amy-berg-heart-issues-behavior.html)

Dan Schneider's former assistant blasts showrunner as an 'a**hole' and 'psychological tormenter' in searing statement amid Quiet On Set release (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13210669/Dan-Schneiders-former-assistant-blasts-showrunner.html)

The dark truth about Drake Bell's downfall: As Nickelodeon star exposes abuse in documentary Quiet on Set, inside the sordid scandals that blew apart his career (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13193581/nickelodeon-downfall-scandals-drake-bell-quiet-set-sexual-abuse.html)

FIVE biggest bombshells from documentary Quiet On Set as directors reveal how they dug into allegations against speech coach and creator (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13209141/quiet-set-documentary-five-biggest-bombshells-brian-peck-dan-schneider-allegations.html)

Schneider (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/nickelodeon-splits-with-dan-schneider.5649542/page-10) would apparently (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/nickelodeon-abuse-docuseries-dan-schneider-quiet-on-set-interview) insist performers do sexually-suggestive stuff and threaten to fire them if they pushed back at all. He apparently was also hostile (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/632982/quiet-set-dark-side-kids?page=2) against any adult women working on his shows, in particular writers.

TMC

03-24-2024, 07:41 PM

John K. is a sociopath who would be doing the world a favor if he dropped dead. Aside from all the sexual allegations, he spent years on a blog trying to poison a new generation of kids against animation giants and popular TV shows, and almost torpedoed Billy West's career on the Howard Stern Show before West made it big on Futurama. (For example, he attacked the character designer of Scooby Doo as a terrible artist.) He is the textbook definition of a walking dark cloud. :mad:

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During your childhood weekends, television shows likely played a significant role in your entertainment. While you enjoyed these shows as a child, looking back as an adult reveals a different perspective, especially when learning about the less admirable individuals involved behind the scenes. In today's video we talk about creeps who worked on TV shows.

Some of the "creeps" we talk about in this video include John Kricfalusi who is the creator of Ren and Stimpy who was exposed for having an underage relationship, We talk about Skyler Page who created the beloved Clarence show who was surprisingly arrested for a petty crime, We also talk about Kevin Clash who was the voice of the iconic Elmo Monster from Sesame Street, And we talk about many more TV personalities such as Bill Cosby.

intro 0:00
John Kricfalusi - Ren and Stimpy 0:56
Justin Roiland - Rick and Morty 3:57
Skyler Page - Clarence 6:36
Kevin Clash - Sesame Street 8:56
Rolf Harris 11:10
Chris Savino - The Loud House 13:58
Rod Hull 16:22
Peter Yarrow 18:09
Bill Cosby - Little Bill 21:00

TMC

03-28-2024, 09:36 PM

While watching a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrv8XT3_jiM&lc=UgiMS3HiiMWrSHgCoAEC) that was critical of the iCarly episode "iPearStore", I found something that pretty much perfectly summed up all that was wrong with Dan Schneider's (https://allthetropes.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Schneider) Nickelodeon shows:
- Mistaking cruelty (https://terribletvshows.miraheze.org/wiki/IMeet_Fred_(iCarly)) and stupidity that borders on brain damage (what's a beverage?) for comedy
- Torturing the most sympathetic character to extreme ends
- Erasing any rational thought and common sense in order to make jokes and give the Megward (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ButtMonkey/WebOriginal) of the week more torment
- Making the most annoying (https://www.commonsensemedia.org/tv-reviews/icarly/user-reviews/adult?page=1)/sadistic (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SadistShow)character the winner even when they do nothing to earn it
- Throwing in filler to try and mask the lack of a story (Gibby's plot should not be in)
- Side characters that exist for no other reason than to torture or be tortured

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Last rounds of the Dan Schneider (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOJL8aM1pI0) conversations (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/the-racism-and-misogynoir-in-dan-schneider-tv-shows.5426000/). Harmful stereotypes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BU4LS1mxw).

Timestamp:

0:00 Introduction (https://www.reddit.com/r/victorious/comments/1bj167y/black_people_in_dans_shows/)
4:40 Helen Dubois
8:15 Jocelyn
10:28 Andre's Grandmother
11:42 Andre's Girlfriends
14:47 Andre's Cousin
16:20 Andre
18:05 Why does this matter?
20:36 Sam and Rex are black
28:51 Conclusion

myv0AiB3iMw

Drake Bell, Amanda Bynes and countless others were negatively effected by the decisions made at Nickelodeon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXDOPiv-mQU). In this video we discuss Quiet on Set, a documentary that details all of the allegations against the production staff.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro
2:00 - EP 1: Dan's World
4:57 - EP 2: Danger on Set/Dan's Power Grows
21:49 - EP 3: Brian Peck/Drake Bell
35:00 - EP 4: Drake Aftermath and Dan's Downfall
43:20 - Actor's Reactions to QoS
43:45 - Dan Responds
47:59 - Josh Peck Responds
50:47 - Devon (Ned's Declassified) Backlash
53:43 - Dan's Support
54:31 - Outro

TMC

04-02-2024, 05:01 AM

Came across this after reading this thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1bsl6am/was_the_jerry_springers_show_really_as_wild_as/) on The Jerry Springer Show (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125210/http://www.jumptheshark.com/j/jerryspringer.htm):
Definitely, it was produced (https://www.reddit.com/r/ObscureMedia/comments/iokn9p/david_lettermans_1980s_interviews_with_sleazy/) by Richard Dominick (https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/funlyv/til_that_richard_dominick_the_man_responsible_for/), who is far more responsible (https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/ujzgg4/a_jerry_springer_episode_from_1993_on_racist/) for the show’s reputation than Springer ever was. Springer actually disliked the show’s direction but had to go along for contractual reasons. Dominick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dominick) was known to love over the top crazy conflict (https://web.archive.org/web/20140329234840/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3121000-whore-whore-whore-jerry-springer/?view=getnewpost). In the show’s early days, it was a more serious, subdued show that got low ratings. Dominick had always had a vision (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhkCWarIIg) of a show that showcased the most absurd in society, inspired by a moment on the Geraldo Rivera show where a full on brawl broke out over a group of white supremacists, and this was his chance to execute it. In the early days of the “Golden Era” of Springer, the stories were mostly true but embellished a bit by Dominick and his company’s practices. Dominick was fired (https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/jcafzx/season_1_of_steve_wilkos_was_better_than_the/) from NBCUniversal (the show’s production company) after encouraging Steve Wilkos, host of the show’s much darker (https://web.archive.org/web/20140329234840/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3158463-steve-wilkos-serious-spin-off-or-one-trick-pony/?view=getnewpost) (and imo better) spinoff (https://moviechat.org/tt1084587/The-Steve-Wilkos-Show/58c81a8d2214d80b5cfaaf12/What-Happened), to become physical with a guest (https://web.archive.org/web/20080911211125/http://www.suntimes.com:80/business/feder/1157023,CST-FIN-feder11.article).

After he was fired, Wilkos’ wife Rachelle took over both shows (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/TheSteveWilkosShow). Her main focus was on her husband’s show of course, so while that show soared, Springer became Flanderized (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheJerrySpringerShow) and mostly staged (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/24864754-was-jerry-springer-staged-) improv with the occasional true story thrown in.

Dominick basically took over Springer’s life and made him into something he never wanted to be (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/627502/jerry-springer-died-tmz-report?page=2). Any interview with Jerry Springer portrays a kind and intelligent man, and it’s a bit sad what became of him. He wanted a show that discussed difficult topics in a mature and “infotaining” way, but got THAT instead. He tried his hand in the UK with a quiz show called Gr££d that didn’t last very long. He also had a short lived gig as the host of The Price Is Right’s stage tour.

Ultimately, Springer’s show serves as a reminder (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/entertainment/jerry-springer-column/index.html) of a particularly strange time in pop culture history, and its reputation will remain as a poor one. Steve Wilkos’ show is much more similar to what Springer wanted originally, though still engages in trashy conflict (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheSteveWilkosShow).

TMC

04-07-2024, 07:04 PM

According to this comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/QuantumLeap/comments/1bxusn1/comment/kyfb4mt/) in the Quantum Leap (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/132041-quantum-leap-in-the-media/page/3/) subreddit:
I believe it was doomed to fail because of Martin Gero. Only other show of his that I've seen is Blindspot, and while I loved the premise, and liked most of the cast, the show itself was pretty terrible. Most of my complaints about Blindspot also apply to QL23. The dialog/acting is either 10/10 tense, or snark-out-the-side-of-the-mouth. Convoluted situations that seem as if the desired outcome or situation was decided on first, then dialog and plot were manhandled into shape to reach that outcome whatever the cost, instead of writing for the characters they were writing for the scene with character motivation or reason as an afterthought. Stupid ****ing time skip because they were too lazy to get from point A to point B logically, so they just forced it with a complete reset. The show as a whole just felt awful and forced. I would love to see each of the individual actors again, but in other projects.

TMC

04-07-2024, 10:30 PM

Since Dan Schneider (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1bduwkz/nickelodeon_reacts_to_drake_bells_reveal_of/) is in the news (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1bdrs9r/four_takeaways_from_quiet_on_set_the_dark_side_of/) again (https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/1bghsvx/anyone_plan_to_watch_quiet_on_set/) due to Investigation Discovery (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=458404)'s recent (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/34006079--quiet-on-set-....this-looks-gooood!) release (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv-a-nickelodeon-and-dan-schneider-expos%C3%A9.5519991/) of the two part series (https://www.resetera.com/threads/%E2%80%98quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv%E2%80%99-trailer-4-part-docu-series-about-dan-schneiders-nickelodeon-reign-out-mar-17.814758/page-2) Quiet on Set (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/143114-quiet-on-set-the-dark-side-of-kids-tv-general-discussion/), here's some links that were just posted on The Daily Mail:

Disturbing footage of Nickelodeon 'abuser' Dan Schneider filming in a HOT TUB with a 16-YEAR-OLD bikini-clad Amanda Bynes resurfaces online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13210225/dan-scheider-nickelodeon-hot-tub-footage-amanda-bynes-quiet-set.html)

Dan Schneider's ex-assistant slams the 'toxic' Nickelodeon creator as a 'f***ing a**hole' and 'psychological tormenter' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13211405/dan-schneider-former-assistant-amy-berg-heart-issues-behavior.html)

Dan Schneider's former assistant blasts showrunner as an 'a**hole' and 'psychological tormenter' in searing statement amid Quiet On Set release (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13210669/Dan-Schneiders-former-assistant-blasts-showrunner.html)

The dark truth about Drake Bell's downfall: As Nickelodeon star exposes abuse in documentary Quiet on Set, inside the sordid scandals that blew apart his career (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13193581/nickelodeon-downfall-scandals-drake-bell-quiet-set-sexual-abuse.html)

FIVE biggest bombshells from documentary Quiet On Set as directors reveal how they dug into allegations against speech coach and creator (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13209141/quiet-set-documentary-five-biggest-bombshells-brian-peck-dan-schneider-allegations.html)

Schneider (https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threads/nickelodeon-splits-with-dan-schneider.5649542/page-10) would apparently (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/nickelodeon-abuse-docuseries-dan-schneider-quiet-on-set-interview) insist performers do sexually-suggestive stuff and threaten to fire them if they pushed back at all. He apparently was also hostile (https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/632982/quiet-set-dark-side-kids?page=2) against any adult women working on his shows, in particular writers.

A9lCtm7qPxY

Quiet on the set, indeed. Welcome to WatchMojo, and today we’re looking at the worst things Dan Schneider has been accused of by his colleagues, former employees, and others in the industry. We'll have a look at temper tantrums, allegations of racism, overworking employees and more! Has your opinion on Dan Schneider changed?

TMC

04-08-2024, 03:07 AM

TMC

05-03-2024, 07:58 PM

Glenn Gordon Caron (https://www.avclub.com/whoops-cbs-just-lost-another-showrunner-to-abusive-wor-1846945695) - When he was the showrunner (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/s7bnng/comment/ht99f1d/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for Bull (https://deadline.com/2021/05/glenn-gordon-caron-out-bull-showrunner-deal-with-cbs-studios-ends-1234762232/#:~:text=Bull%20showrunner%20Glenn%20Gordon%20Caron,has%20departed%20the%20procedural%20drama.), he was once quoted saying that Eliza Dushku (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gordon_Caron#Controversy) ought to not mind sexual harassment since she had once posed for Maxim (https://www.nydailynews.com/snyde/ny-glenn-gordon-caron-freddy-rodriguez-out-bull-harassment-20210523-4nqzmma47vhwlkrnry6txcqbvm-story.html). Caron was problematic as far back as his Moonlighting days. To put things as nicely as possible, he was a perfectionist and held up production (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/Moonlighting) a lot because of his demands. Scripts were twice as long as typical one hour show scripts because of the intricate dialogue, and they took 2-3 times as long to shoot as one hour shows typically did. Producer Jay Daniel did an interview (http://moonlighting21.com/fanzine/jay_daniel.php) where he was as diplomatic as can be:

Adam F. Goldberg (https://deadline.com/2019/08/the-goldbergs-creator-adam-f-goldberg-steps-down-showrunner-chris-bishop-alex-barnow-new-showrunners-1202704514/) - Mostly due to his presumed indifference over Jeff Garlin's alleged abusive behavior (https://deadline.com/2021/12/jeff-garlin-exit-the-goldbergs-hr-investigations-season-9-1234892030/#comments) on the set of The Goldbergs (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/the-real-reason-adam-f-goldberg-stepped-down-as-the-goldbergs-showrunner.html/). This is what some people who claim to have worked on the show said in the comments section of the linked Deadline article so take it with grain of salt if you want:

Some further details (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/34298501-finished-reading-moonlighting-an-oral-history) on Glenn Gordon Caron when he worked on Moonlighting (https://books.google.com/books?id=H_MlEAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Moonlighting&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTgqvH2PKFAxXvIDQIHc1gANMQ6AF6BAgNEAI#v=onepage&q=Moonlighting&f=false):
It was a nationwide search to cast the character of David Addison. Many actors tried out for the role, including Desi Arnaz Jr. and Bill Maher. David Alan Grier gave a fantastic audition, but they knew ABC would never go for an interracial couple at that time.

Bruce and Cybill hoped the show wouldn’t make it past its first half season, as filming for the show was laborious. It was not uncommon for 30 hour filming days, where most dramas go between 12-18.

From the start, the creator, Glenn Gordon Caron thumbed his nose at deadlines. He felt good television was not something you put on a schedule. As a result, Moonlighting (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031124653/http://www.jumptheshark.com/m/moonlighting.htm) was constantly behind taping and editing the episode on the day of network airing was a constant. One episode was so late in getting done, it made it to the east coast affiliates just minutes before it’s 9:00 airing. The gaps between new episodes started becoming frequent. But ABC initially didn’t care as second and even third airings of an episode would still draw big numbers.

The show was not a big hit among older viewers, many of whom found the irreverent style offputting. It was a HUGE hit among the 21-34 year old crowd, especially the college crowd.

Cybill never warmed to doing the show. Despite it reigniting her career and given her a level of acclaim and respect she has never gotten before or since, she seems to resent the Maddie Hayes character and the show itself. When she leaves after the first season to do The Long Hot Summer on hiatus, she tells Glenn she’s off to do “real work”. Allyce Beasley also claims Cybill resented Bruce from the start.

Glenn was obsessed and overly protective with the David Addison character to the point that he would veto scenes where Cybill’s character would get the upper hand or come out looking better. He frequently sided with Bruce in the shows much publicized on set blowouts.

As the third season is underway, the network and viewers start pressuring the show to finally consummate the Dave/Maddie pairing. A four part arc with Mark Harmon was conceived to end the season with plans to move the show in more of a Hart to Hart style direction the following season as Dave and Maddie become a couple. All plans go to **** when Cybill announces in the middle of shooting the four parter that she can’t do an action scene at a bowling alley because she’s pregnant with twins. An announcement that some on the staff think was intentional in timing.

With Bruce being unavailable for the summer due to shooting Die Hard, and Cybill not being available for the fall because of giving birth, Glenn quickly writes a story arc in three days where Maddie runs back to her family and Bruce is left behind at the office.

Fourth season opener A trip to the moon is actually the last episode filmed for season three.

Despite Dave and Maddie doing it and keeping them apart at the beginning of the fourth season, the show still remains a strong presence in the ratings, never going out of the top 20. But Bruce’s movie schedule increases, and Cybill effectively checks out of the show once having her twins, calling out sick constantly and demanding constant breaks between filming. Allyce Beasley and Curtis Armstrong are called upon to do heavy lifting. This takes a toll on Allyce, who winds up having a breakdown on set while filming a Casablanca themed episode.

Glenn plans a His Girl Friday story arc for Maddie’s return where she falls in love with an Ivy League David Addison-esque clone on a train and marries him. He recruits Dennis Dugan (who had done a fantastic audition for David Addison) and writes the character of Walter Bishop.

After filming the Tracks of My Tears episode, the production crew realizes they had ****ed up. The character is completely out of place on the show, and the chemistry with Maddie is non existent. Cybill hates the storyline and the Bishop character, whom she deems a pathetic wimp.

When the episode airs, the show is flooded with angry calls and hate mail from viewers. ABC tells Glenn to ax the Bishop character and he is quickly written out. The ratings start to plummet and in an effort to save the show, a 3D finale at Magic Mountain is much publicized and then axed due to a writers strike. At this point, ABC steps in to deal with the shows problems. They agree to bring the show back later in the 88-89 season, but state that they want Cybill on an episode by episode basis, due to her frequent no shows.

A meeting is called at ABC with Cybill, Glenn, the ABC president and respective lawyers. The meeting turns into a blowout between Glenn and Cybill. Cybill calls the ABC brass that evening and states that she will only return if Glenn is fired. ABC calls Glenn and tells him he’s fired from his own show.

Cybill returns but on a limited schedule per doctors orders, no more than five hours of filming a day. Thus the reason for the harsher look in the last season, they had barely any time to film her much less light her.

The last scene of the finale of the show was supposed to be David and Maddie finally declaring their love for one another, but just as the scene was about to film, one of the actors (its not mentioned who) refuses to say the lines. The scene is scrapped and a montage is done instead.

Allyce Beasley admits that for the longest time she blamed Bruce and Cybill for not only destroying the show but hindering her career in the process, as she felt she was blackballed due to the show's constant negative press. But the staff agrees that Allyce and Curtis were the unsung heroes of the show who kept it going in spite of two temperamental stars.

TMC

06-13-2024, 07:57 PM

Presumed Innocent is more proof David E. Kelley no longer deserves his maverick reputation (https://time.com/6987435/presumed-innocent-review-apple/#:~:text=Twenty%2Dseven%20years%20after%20he,longer%20deserves%20his%20maverick%20reputation.)

Twenty-seven years after he captured the late-'90s zeitgeist with Ally McBeal, seven years after he made his prestige TV bones with Big Little Lies, and about six weeks after he unveiled a disastrous Netflix adaptation of Tom Wolfe's A Man in Full, it's clear he no longer deserves his maverick reputation.

TMC

07-01-2024, 07:56 PM

The Umbrella Academy creator and showrunner Steve Blackman accused of having “long history of toxic, bullying, manipulative, and retaliatory behavior" (https://tvline.com/news/the-umbrella-academy-steve-blackman-toxic-behavior-allegations-1235273011/#:~:text=In%20a%20new%20report%20by,The%20Umbrella%20Academy's%20four)

In a new report by Rolling Stone, 12 former writers and support staffers on The Umbrella Academy detailed what was referred to in a January 2023 human resources complaint as a “long history of toxic, bullying, manipulative and retaliatory behavior” during Blackman's time at the helm of The Umbrella Academy's four ...

TMC

10-26-2024, 04:45 AM

I don't know or remember if he's already been (https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/awxz0f/comment/i0vn1s7/) listed or mentioned (https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/worst-tv-showrunners-ever.1940752/), but Aaron Sorkin (https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueFilm/comments/sta33u/why_do_people_hate_aaron_sorkins_work/). Matthew Perry's said that Studio 60 (https://cultural-learnings.com/2007/06/16/how-aaron-sorkin-ruined-studio-60-part-one-pilot-potential/) was frustrating to work on because Sorkin (https://collider.com/aaron-sorkin-screenplays-best-ranked/) is so precious about his dialog (https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/jbqnnc/the_problem_with_sorkins_dialogue/) that he wouldn't let the actors improvise or even approximate his wording (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUeNU9iESe8). He needed everything to be said (https://www.quora.com/Who-actually-speaks-the-way-Aaron-Sorkin-writes) exactly (https://www.salon.com/2012/07/19/aaron_sorkin_versus_frivolity/) as it was written (https://www.quora.com/What-is-Aaron-Sorkin-s-biggest-weakness-as-a-writer).

Perry also said that audiences didn't connect with it (https://www.nathanrabin.com/happy-place/2021/5/5/the-mesmerizingly-mortifying-legacy-of-studio-60-on-the-sunset-strip) because the characters acted as if the stakes were incredibly high (https://www.salon.com/2012/07/19/aaron_sorkin_versus_frivolity/), but it wasn't The West Wing, so the audience was never going to believe that the stakes (https://entertainment.time.com/2006/10/03/aaron_sorkin_the_shyamalan_of/) of getting a TV show made (https://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2007/01/what-i-really-think-of-aaron-sorkin.html) were as high as the stakes of the fate of the country. It just took itself way too seriously (https://www.vulture.com/2010/12/the-day-comedy-won-a-look-back-at-studio-60-on-the-sunset-strip.html) (pretty standard (https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/old-media-on-aaron-sorkin) for Sorkin).

TMC

12-13-2024, 04:33 AM

TMC

05-18-2025, 05:12 PM

Aaron Spelling was good on 7th Heaven. His absence was felt in season 11 after his death, that final season was a lot worse.

Aaron Spelling depending on your point of view, was for lack of better words, basically a B movie producer. He was undoubtably a successful producer regardless as he had a formula and it worked. But that formula again depending on your personal point of view, involved dumbing everything down, making all the characters cardboard, and cranking out product that was really popular until it wasn't.

TMC

07-04-2025, 01:27 AM

Charisma's/Cordelia's departure from Angel was handled incredibly badly, both on-camera and off-camera. I can't begin to describe how icky her Season 4 storyline became.

Here's another brief refresher (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n10zyt2/) of what happened (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n1109jo/) to Charisma Carpenter's character (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n141snf/) on Angel after she had the audacity (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n12zi14/) to become pregnant (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n10z8pi/) much to Joss Whedon (https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/1lq9iwj/comment/n11dk90/)'s chagrin:
Cordelia Chase from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: Cordelia is taken over by an evil force, has sex with the aged up teen boy that she used to babysit, got pregnant, gave birth to an unholy evil, went into a coma, then died.

The actress, Charisma Carpenter, spoke out a few years ago about the toxic work environment on the show.

TMC

08-17-2025, 02:13 AM

‘We Decided to Make Season Three of And Just Like That the End…And Not Tell The Actors’ (https://popculturereferences.com/we-decided-to-make-season-three-of-and-just-like-that-the-end-and-not-tell-the-actors/)

Brian explains how absurd the explanation being give for the final of And Just Like That is.

Today, I explain how absurd the explanation being give for the final of And Just Like That is.

Knowledge Waits (https://popculturereferences.com/category/knowledge-waits/) is a feature where I just share some bit of pop culture history that interests me that doesn’t quite fit into the other features.

And Just Like That, the sequel series to Sex and the City, is ending after three seasons. Michael Patrick King (https://www.reddit.com/r/Andjustlikethat/search/?q=Michael+Patrick+King&cId=2707dbb5-4244-4f1c-93b1-e7d38341e1da&iId=961ffed4-5e9b-4595-acf7-570520999a44), the creator of the series, announced the end on the show’s official Instagram page (https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0Xlboxx1L/):

“And just like that… the ongoing storytelling of the Sex and the City universe is coming to an end. While I was writing the last episode of And Just Like That… Season 3, it became clear to me that this might be a wonderful place to stop. Along with Sarah Jessica Parker, Casey Bloys and Sarah Aubrey, we decided to end the popular series this year with a two-part finale and extended the original series order from 10 episodes to 12. SJP and I held off announcing the news until now because we didn’t want the word ‘final’ to overshadow the fun of watching the season. It’s with great gratitude we thank all the viewers who have let these characters into their homes and their hearts over these many years.”

The rest of the cast and crew were just told the other day.

So, therefore, King’s position is that he decided to end the show after the 10th episode, wrote a two-part series finale, and then DIDN’T TELL ANY OF THE CAST OR CREW THAT IT WAS THE END? And the episodes were somehow not written in such a way as to indicate that it was, in fact, the series finale of the show?

In a word, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

In two words, “Sure, Jan.”

TMC

09-09-2025, 05:23 PM

Zosia Mamet appears to be referring to Mad Men's Matthew Weiner in her new book detailing how she quit an acclaimed show over a toxic showrunner (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/arts/why-zosia-mamet-quit-biggest-show-television-excerpt-1236362968/)

In an excerpt from her book Does This Make Me Funny? (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/703338/does-this-make-me-funny-by-zosia-mamet/), released today, the former Girls star doesn't name the show or the toxic male showrunner, but it's evidently Mad Men creator and showrunner Matthew Weiner (https://www.showbiz411.com/2025/09/08/shocker-girls-star-zosia-mamet-says-she-quit-mad-men-at-19-after-abuse-from-the-unnamed-showrunner-matthew-weiner), who was accused of sexual harassment (https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/mad-men-writer-accuses-creator-matthew-weiner-of-sexual-harassment-121646/) by former writer Kater Gordon. Mamet played Life magazine assistant photo editor Joyce Ramsay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRXJiVDxMY) on five episodes of Mad Men in Seasons 4 and 5. Mamet describes the unnamed show as "the kind of show that’s a phenomenon, that makes people fall in love with TV as a medium all over again.” "The show’s creator and showrunner was an intense human," Mamet writes. "He directed some episodes every season but not all of them. This one was being directed by someone else. The showrunner wasn’t always around, but when he was, the entire vibe of the set would change, as if a cold front had swept the soundstage. I never entirely understood why. He was definitely spirited and opinionated, but there’s way worse than that in Hollywood. I had always thought there was maybe something I was missing. I was correct. We were doing a blocking rehearsal when he showed up on set. The scene was short and easy. I was meant to come into the office, tell everyone I had photos of something important, remove them from the manila envelope I was carrying, and place them on the table. Then everyone had a few more lines and that was it. So we’re rehearsing, I walk in, I go to take the photos out of the envelope, and the showrunner calls 'Cut.; Not the director of the episode, the showrunner. And we all look at each other like, Did somebody do something wrong? We all thought the scene was going fine. He gets up out of his chair at the monitors and walks toward me slowly, looking at the ground the entire time like he’s trying to figure out how to word what he’s about to say. And when he finally stops right in front of me, he takes a few more beats before he lifts his head, looks at me, and says, 'What the f*** are you doing?' To which I say, 'Um…rehearsing?' And then he grabs my hand that’s holding the manila envelope and he says, 'No! What the f*** are you doing with this! That’s not how you take something out of an envelope! Do it again!' So we do it again, and again, and again. And every time we get to the part of the scene where I’m meant to take the photos out of the envelope, he calls 'Cut' and he gets up and he yells. Well, first, he starts off just raising his voice, which escalates to yelling, which eventually mutates into full‑out screaming." Mamet adds: "Eventually he gave up or got bored. But this lasted for about a half hour. And nobody stopped it. Everyone just stared at their shoes while he screamed at me. Eventually we finished the blocking rehearsal and shot the scene. I finished my day. I walked to my car and called my agents and told them I quit. I was supposed to do four more episodes that season, not including the one I was on, but I told them I didn’t care what they had to do, I didn’t care if the network sued me, I refused to go back on that set for one more day than I actually had to. I don’t remember anything else about the rest of that shoot. I think I’ve blocked it out." Mamet writes that she was 19 when she joined the unnamed show. But her Mad Men episode premiered in 2010, when she was 22. When she was 19, Mamet had a recurring role on CBS' The Unit, which was created by her dad David Mamet. But Zosia Mamet writes that on her first episode, “one of the actors on the show was directing for the first time, and he was absolutely incredible at it.” (John Slattery made his Mad Men directing debut with her first episode). And she describes the anonymous show as sweeping the Emmys. The Unit only had one Emmy nomination during its four-season run, while Mad Men won 16 Emmys, including the outstanding drama series Emmy for each of its first four seasons.

TMC

09-12-2025, 08:03 PM

To describe things in a nutshell, when David Peckinpah (https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=326) took over Sliders (https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=351) for Season 3 (https://earthprime.com/essays/abusing-the-audience/), the show under (https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/cm3yz/sliders_how_to_ruin_a_show_torture_your/) his watch (https://earthprime.com/roulette/by-way-of-consolation-have-a-scone-murder-most-foul/), turned into a brainless 'movie pastiche of the week' series, which led to John Rhys-Davis being fired (https://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-the-sci-fi-fantasy-show-Sliders-How-did-it-begin-going-down-Why) and his character lobotomized/killed off (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125314/http://www.jumptheshark.com/s/sliders.htm).

How did David Peckinpah ruin Sliders? (https://www.google.com/search?q=How+did+David+Peckinpah+ruin+Sliders%3F&sca_esv=c981fe50ade8bcc1&sxsrf=AE3TifNfZuZyFhNgFY7TKVGEwoUIFze6yw%3A1757720319098&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZ1Y6MJ25_tmWITc7uy4KIeuYzzFkfneXafNx6OMdA4MQRJc_t_TQjwHYrzlkIauOKj9nSuujpEIbB1x32lFLEvPT3JmO8mWQjm2X3w-eMKXZ0RUYhz1JSpwmiVqRbYKaSUH5IT0DtjseXr7pWbySQW2IansKYxVko0I4Xq9VSCktKDaAksofpR02O_Zlq1OtpJOB00g&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj33O-5stSPAxXgJDQIHUocH_wQ2J8OegQIDxAE&biw=1920&bih=1013&dpr=1&mtid=AK_EaPvKN5SB0PEP76iBkAU&mstk=AUtExfAi8hDNPSSKp1Ta20E2lZ4QEIrcY9Tb7XJFpDOvJmEn_3GJIFyfs2n-Ncfqqek4NEo0GFWl6UYtkE2pxupNNkdJuzHks6MrJjKUgCRMG-qzuV7SyO4i8iWOBxy5aErfOGV4m-rFAlEy9ItjteHTTEgG5q-AfwIBjX3VrkvuioDOc-ubTVbMo8_Jjj41hQbmGo5p-63UdxBc3MX3ffwV0i0HattAiz3CJw27kBeGtoo_eXL1abrZVVqFJ21kVdPaCF6UQw3qIrf2FL-F7I90YUbl2yTqHozm4pXe6vjoO4wmigtiHmM1a5ZsU9l0V_N470SHSRJuBFhcVA&csuir=1)

David Peckinpah is widely blamed for ruining Sliders by shifting the show's focus away from its original intellectual, character-driven premise toward cheap, action-oriented stories. His tenure as showrunner, beginning in Season 3, is also marked by a toxic on-set environment and the departure of key cast members.

Creative and tonal shifts

Moved away from alternate history: The original premise of exploring parallel worlds with alternate historical outcomes was largely discarded. Peckinpah and Fox executives replaced the thought-provoking "what if" scenarios with rip-offs of popular films like Twister and Anaconda.
Prioritized action and sex appeal over story: Peckinpah, who had little sci-fi experience, was known for producing the late-night series Silk Stalkings. His influence pushed Sliders toward more action-heavy, low-brow plots. He also deliberately "sexed up" the show by hiring actress Kari Wuhrer (Maggie Beckett) and reportedly basing the decision on her figure.
Introduced plot inconsistencies: The complex rules of the parallel worlds and the functionality of the timer were often ignored, leading to frequent continuity errors that alienated fans.

Cast and crew turmoil

Fired John Rhys-Davies: Actor John Rhys-Davies, who played Professor Arturo, was an outspoken critic of the show's declining quality. After openly confronting Peckinpah about the poor writing, Rhys-Davies' character was abruptly and brutally killed off.
Vindictive treatment of Sabrina Lloyd: When actress Sabrina Lloyd (Wade Welles) rejected Peckinpah's advances, he reportedly retaliated by writing a humiliating end for her character. Wade was captured by the series villains, the Kromaggs, and sent to a breeding camp.
Caused star exits: The creative turmoil and toxic environment drove away most of the original talent. Co-creator Tracy Tormé left the show after losing creative control, and Lloyd left after Season 3. Star Jerry O'Connell departed during Season 4, followed by his brother and co-star Charlie O'Connell. This left only Cleavant Derricks (Rembrandt Brown) from the original cast.

Behind-the-scenes mismanagement

Disinterested approach: Peckinpah reportedly did not care about the show and his indifference led to a lax and unprofessional production. According to reports, this led to a severe overspending of the budget in the first half of Season 3, forcing the second half to be produced under severe cost restrictions.
Poor on-set safety: Lax production oversight under Peckinpah may have contributed to unsafe conditions. In Season 3, stuntman Ken Steadman was tragically killed on set.

TMC

10-19-2025, 04:47 AM

It almost get a kick out of going through the old TWoP forums (https://web.archive.org/web/20140411060907/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-1) on Entertainment Tonight (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125154/http://www.jumptheshark.com/e/entertainmenttonight.htm) from the 2000s. It basically serves a perfect window (https://web.archive.org/web/20140330033719/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2864743-entertainment-tonight/page-5#entry2355733) into how that show (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b696b51e905f66b50ca/ET-has-a-funny-habbit-of-talking-about-things-nobody-cares-about) became a complete shell of itself (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b666b51e905f66b4ec5/ETs-lowest-of-low-moments) under Linda Bell Blue's watch (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,298303,00.html). Pat O'Brien's memoir (https://books.google.com/books?id=FjxPBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=I%27ll+Be+Back+Right+After+This:+My+Memoir&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjUye-L_5X4AhWwlWoFHcOfDDUQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=Linda%20Bell%20Blue&f=false) also has some nice little insight of what it was like working under LBB.

The bottom-line is that before (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b686b51e905f66b501c/Tabloid-Tv-Entertainment-Tonight) Linda Bell Blue came along in 1995, Entertainment Tonight (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081857/reviews?ref_=tttr_ql_op_3) was (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4fe3/Does-Anyone-Remember-When-This-Show-Sold-Out) an informative (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4f9d/ET-no-longer-respectable-TV) entertainment show about the latest movies, television, and music. But then, they switched the format (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b656b51e905f66b4e5e/Ready-to-Abandon-ET) to a more (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b676b51e905f66b4faf/Theyre-nothing-but-Tabloid-TV) tabloid/gossip-styled show (https://moviechat.org/tt0081857/Entertainment-Tonight/58c73b656b51e905f66b4e87/The-downward-spiral-of-ET).

What are (https://poe.com/s/F8nWaj0xqcUx2W9Jz0UD) the biggest mistakes (https://www.google.com/search?q=What+are+the+biggest+mistakes+that+Linda+Bell+Blue+made+during+her+tenure+as+executive+producer+of+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifP449VZ4m1ezh5hyA6ln0KmuNM59A%3A1760862512499&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZrjP_Cx0LI1Ytb_FGcOviEiTm5uW1q0uNfK7KsnoL8hUyUYUJLZ_b-p0lT09DIkR7bwzZ58goNnPFwCobO9Lr1FJy27_ddIL61O5aDZqsFHeKdbTBa3SWM9BbE6jpBPGlXzcFCH1KrIQ9yHBjyi-ZLJUInBy54epU8g3fHyjXolCFfseHfRcNjgYhOadYKw2rr0vq-A&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwik-7iE7K-QAxWc4skDHdxrEwAQ2J8OegQIEhAE&biw=1600&bih=739&dpr=1&mstk=AUtExfC7C1rUgCeFtOHYVY0X9jwKgGQvzssgMChPHmD6TMwVh8oVs8BrKPf4JkhcUUTxS0UrBdgvvw4XurzO3DUY9cx16MW7i1iRZfDhjpe7uPBpayKImt05iFNyrTwbzIem9mWpV04m5bK6PqQgkIvK_rreq7fbZLkU9wR1OofjTB37aBnE107g1kPTAwXpECTZr8lQr-BY2qcTRX-iSIgou-CD4RTpdp127aumGdGKjmZFjgL9KhZ1mdY-W7Uw2nC6Ld5UoxlXwYoEk5K4Fe15SYFQIKMX-NXLxX7VFSEu_M2Eu9e7VgI1SDSEgNQxkzDjiS7rc_uDwaKPlQ&csuir=1&mtid=QaH0aMSRPICzptQPyJ-W0Aw) that Linda Bell Blue (https://www.google.com/search?q=What+are+the+biggest+mistakes+that+Linda+Bell+Blue+made+during+her+tenure+as+executive+producer+of+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifMF2AI5vVhbBKGt1qX5Zg9uUvpO_Q%3A1760839324532&ei=nEb0aMObILXTp84P6-nziQQ&ved=0ahUKEwjD2cfTla-QAxW16ckDHev0PEEQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=What+are+the+biggest+mistakes+that+Linda+Bell+Blue+made+during+her+tenure+as+executive+producer+of+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAihQFXaGF0IGFyZSB0aGUgYmlnZ2VzdCBtaXN0YWtlcyB0aGF0IExpbmRhIEJlbGwgQmx1ZSBtYWRlIGR1cmluZyBoZXIgdGVudXJlIGFzIGV4ZWN1dGl2ZSBwcm9kdWNlciBvZiBFbnRlcnRhaW5tZW50IFRvbmlnaHQgKDE5OTUtMjAxMyk_MgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKsCMgUQIRirAjIFECEYqwJIyIkCUABYrvsBcAF4AZABBZgB6TagAd6fAqoBCzUtMS43LjIuMC40uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIIoAKeM6gCE8ICBxAjGCcY6gLCAgoQIxjwBRgnGOoCwgINECMY8AUYJxjqAhieBsICExAAGIAEGEMYtAIYigUY6gLYAQHCAhwQLhiABBjRAxhDGLQCGMcBGMgDGIoFGOoC2AEBwgIEECMYJ8ICChAjGPAFGCcYyQLCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgITEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxjHARiKBcICEBAAGIAEGLEDGEMYgwEYigXCAhEQABiABBixAxiDARiKBRiNBsICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIFEAAYgATCAgYQABgWGB7CAgsQABiABBiGAxiKBcICCBAAGKIEGIkFwgIIEAAYgAQYogTCAgUQABjvBZgDKPEFp30oy4RJURG6BgYIARABGAGSBwkxLjUtMS41LjGgB_5RsgcHNS0xLjUuMbgH9jLCBwUzLTQuNMgHrgE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) made (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-are-the-biggest-mistakes-lDgMTTRUSbGnqpb38qeNXw#0) during her tenure (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4a3a955b88191ba8f88e70adeab6a) as executive producer (https://x.com/i/grok/share/4MMktqYPLyqdHYiTxfdMDqWUO) of Entertainment Tonight (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4a65f64bc819182973704e0f2a8c9) (1995-2013 (https://x.com/i/grok/share/o9Z4yOHdQwWkAsgGtrIwBYdaB))?

How exactly (https://www.google.com/search?q=How+exactly%2C+was+Linda+Bell+Blue+such+a+bad+executive+producer+and+showrunner+for+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifPTgxo5hGV_JU7ZhjCAxC0x3kaGIQ%3A1760864389665&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZud1z6kQpMfoEdCJxnpm_3YlUqOpj4OTU_HmqxOd8LCYAmZcz3xp4-s3ijYzIP40Lia9Q6yhIX2F8k3-TPnVLuf4vo2DKzxtKYVdS0l2dcByStNDjWIjl6lKjlPBgbneCbCrk0IwpQPyA9hdoscDz59XMWdfVb6wSUXBGtP5Q-cNQivZYhjaBoEniYvUm99WFRRAX0Q&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiX_cWD86-QAxVrG9AFHW3YBpkQ2J8OegQIExAE&biw=1600&bih=739&dpr=1&mstk=AUtExfAcKDR3LSVwe4YKzTfuSXJdxbBlaZTrGx9ih6QRmdykMneNMFN4zWPcEkyR59gWXkQPDvb1iOm8-nEVJ5rviGVbT2TH0CRFMwm5PBtWxMoohcnQbIu9W8ENAbajvWefltn1zVjqczYpnHX9AoeIfXlYpYmxhqQEgt-P93Q2cE1CbAS3STZGFloLszI_nhWsHEXVfRm9yn1r5hJkjcq_PRuW0D8RL2egcsVHTLQGUsZ9xioAb1UJLJOsdoqoxvD2VUc-tKwCmajrv2ODx83f_-0KHqIImyZZPQvq3dOEfAC6j7lbapceYlB2vZwTkd7PoWRv1cTXEYLPdQ&csuir=1), was (https://www.google.com/search?q=What+are+the+worst+moments+that+either+aired+on+or+involved+Entertainment+Tonight+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifPTgxo5hGV_JU7ZhjCAxC0x3kaGIQ%3A1760864389665&ei=haj0aNemKOu2wN4P7bCbyAk&ved=0ahUKEwiX_cWD86-QAxVrG9AFHW3YBpkQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=What+are+the+worst+moments+that+either+aired+on+or+involved+Entertainment+Tonight+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+%281995-2013%29%3F&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAilAFXaGF0IGFyZSB0aGUgd29yc3QgbW9tZW50cyB0aGF0IGVpdGhlciBhaXJlZCBvbiBvciBpbnZvbHZlZCBFbnRlcnRhaW5tZW50IFRvbmlnaHQgZHVyaW5nIExpbmRhIEJlbGwgQmx1ZSdzIHRlbnVyZSBhcyBleGVjdXRpdmUgcHJvZHVjZXIgKDE5OTUtMjAxMyk_MgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMg0QIxjwBRgnGOoCGJ4GMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgoQIxjwBRgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMhQQABiABBiRAhi0AhiKBRjqAtgBATIXEC4YgAQYkQIYtAIYyAMYigUY6gLYAQEyFxAuGIAEGJECGLQCGMgDGIoFGOoC2AEBMhcQLhiABBiRAhi0AhjIAxiKBRjqAtgBAUi2HVCFE1iFE3ABeACQAQCYAQCgAQCqAQC4AQPIAQD4AQH4AQKYAgGgAn-oAg6YA3_xBUhejd9iIg6IugYGCAEQARgBkgcDMC4xoAcAsgcAuAcAwgcDNi0xyAd5&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) Linda Bell Blue (https://www.google.com/search?q=How+exactly%2C+was+Linda+Bell+Blue+such+a+bad+executive+producer+and+showrunner+for+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifP449VZ4m1ezh5hyA6ln0KmuNM59A%3A1760862512499&ei=MKH0aKSjHpzFp84P3NdN&ved=0ahUKEwik-7iE7K-QAxWc4skDHdxrEwAQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=How+exactly%2C+was+Linda+Bell+Blue+such+a+bad+executive+producer+and+showrunner+for+Entertainment+Tonight+%281995-2013%29%3F&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAidEhvdyBleGFjdGx5LCB3YXMgTGluZGEgQmVsbCBCbHVlIHN1Y2ggYSBiYWQgZXhlY3V0aXZlIHByb2R1Y2VyIGFuZCBzaG93cnVubmVyIGZvciBFbnRlcnRhaW5tZW50IFRvbmlnaHQgKDE5OTUtMjAxMyk_Mg0QIxjwBRgnGOoCGJ4GMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgoQIxjwBRgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMgcQIxgnGOoCMhMQABiABBhDGLQCGIoFGOoC2AEBMhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBMhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBMhAQLhgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBMhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBMhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBSL0iUI0bWI0bcAF4AJABAJgBAKABAKoBALgBA8gBAPgBAfgBApgCAaACLKgCEJgDK_EF21A3IVcGz966BgYIARABGAGSBwExoAcAsgcAuAcAwgcDNC0xyAcn&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) such a bad (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4a84af6c48191afcde24db098bb59) executive producer (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-are-the-biggest-mistakes-lDgMTTRUSbGnqpb38qeNXw#3) and showrunner (https://x.com/i/grok/share/kGzs0xFgUkZkYP7nWXgVtV8CY) for Entertainment Tonight (https://x.com/i/grok/share/kGzs0xFgUkZkYP7nWXgVtV8CY) (1995-2013 (https://www.google.com/search?q=What+are+the+worst+moments+that+either+aired+on+or+involved+Entertainment+Tonight+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifPFegjjCnKFwQCmsRLS6Wnii608oQ%3A1760864888686&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZrjP_Cx0LI1Ytb_FGcOviEiaSXTsdMUiuBeEuSNqG6MGxAgmTPrUk32Qw7HMCrZRRmgQBnzlhL-K9pls9R8TfxWi1dKMuxk8d-F43xI0u2TA09qnrReUqsroKvhMFkc0301syxtZLaLMKzQGYdxr9-apXgUu6KdayXf6iFKXxHTuEzYQqoLXnrPLh0tjg3EgXrwjdDQ&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir7r_x9K-QAxWzRTABHfu1Bp8Q2J8OegQIERAE&biw=1600&bih=739&dpr=1&mstk=AUtExfD5JtvTdDUnXnEJbG2YpU0m2juOkm4yjfcXZ3Ikdb_N4orLJZUjhl0Y-bFWwdA5241xqLKABDSjyi2T3vbrVLn1R4ret60RfCNf2SOe_zYlHiydM6YjAAodHF3yyfSC-yQP1D-m1asUClGMeZhn9JC1CvuCSofop29MBaC1Lgl82C3BiA5aUsOVyMzyV9KMULbfTB5F48JC8CHzshzOnHBlSEVOyKHRZRiMj-SeCQfMEfk7lyUWkMTOtZFOtfXGOV2_aa4rpGI2CQcmPZlZs7MU1Gc8qN5i0VZVgv-rbJeZfX3OeM2-7U7P62tGjWkXkvsDOI5_xNS7YYQ7FXSfjFcfLqAIXxsKVX42AtjJ6761X9aHioHsfoW8XRhPsFB-hONcWtoEV5HYdZ8qfHCkBTqZt8--e2WMA0v5ygm-aWCHNI9hjK-aOZzq1Gjusz14nSyoNi5mVYk&csuir=1&mtid=56r0aLmGG72IwbkPpNqo-QI))?

What are (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-are-the-biggest-mistakes-lDgMTTRUSbGnqpb38qeNXw#5) the biggest creative mistakes (google.com/search?q=What+are+the+biggest+creative+mistakes+that+Entertainment+Tonight+made+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+and+showrunner+(1995-2013)%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifNBSN6pNlrxo8PFJNptwzmD5692uw:1760865128303&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZrjP_Cx0LI1Ytb_FGcOviEiTm5uW1q0uNfK7KsnoL8hUyUYUJLZ_b-p0lT09DIkR7RtNt-9R1f9Pbq4mdMMyxSelEHHADgzBCNx7-1ORi0KL6PmuZlhCdFkfC14rwu1hVYz7VaOyiNZ1fR3MRh37FnT1xKvvetQpGv6CeYusk3UW5R7062AE1WaM4vJA2CkZ6VOjUqg&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW-uDj9a-QAxWd4MkDHfN0MTQQ2J8OegQIEhAE&biw=1600&bih=739&dpr=1) that Entertainment Tonight (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4adc3e6608191aace8a924502e810) made during (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4acf0dd3481919252d91d68266218) Linda Bell Blue (https://www.google.com/search?q=What+are+the+biggest+creative+mistakes+that+Entertainment+Tonight+made+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+and+showrunner+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifPTgxo5hGV_JU7ZhjCAxC0x3kaGIQ%3A1760864389665&ei=haj0aNemKOu2wN4P7bCbyAk&ved=0ahUKEwiX_cWD86-QAxVrG9AFHW3YBpkQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=What+are+the+biggest+creative+mistakes+that+Entertainment+Tonight+made+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+and+showrunner+%281995-2013%29%3F&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)'s tenure (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-are-the-biggest-mistakes-lDgMTTRUSbGnqpb38qeNXw#4) as executive producer (https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f4adc3e6608191aace8a924502e810) and showrunner (https://www.google.com/search?q=In+what+ways+exactly%2C+did+Entertainment+Tonight+decline+in+quality+as+a+television+show+during+Linda+Bell+Blue%27s+tenure+as+executive+producer+%281995-2013%29%3F&sca_esv=d7b9de12cd180c3f&sxsrf=AE3TifN5AYxbeTPsfIVD2e8IpbruI11qsA%3A1760865975989&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZrjP_Cx0LI1Ytb_FGcOviEiaSXTsdMUiuBeEuSNqG6MGxAgmTPrUk32Qw7HMCrZRRG-9nlUuJUZg3QA27lDum4Bz7BrEMVkQoj1EI_v4NyBH6fJCxsOcLrBp5-qv7u2VhsVc7bVEmL8aQDATB64zDQrvEKkshVuIInsdmoVDFVvbKJhNpHTz91TeWRPS5fdtrKbE9Sg&aep=1&ntc=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEvfv3-K-QAxU2MdAFHV5GLoMQ2J8OegQIEhAE&biw=1600&bih=739&dpr=1&mstk=AUtExfB_kM4xW6922uhEhCUNiX5GpkzHCWzZ5MQL9WWQYpLjwfsYd86AY_FbzQsKZYHEq70mSNDD0gySlO7CK1R7Kwytwe-2e8HQoTjs3ZwLF9LhtriX4mZoGEp9skz8Iu36R04qpExEr1XiTDH2XOEi06D59yvCgQt9eiMf_7UfAl3e0J4yPPtWaUSCtfPa79DbPeQ-7dz3GaI7gokkO8Msw4EVvCxRQ3INNL5OXT8qjTDLI1RcGTsR-PIQD1lJDQLdwp_Kms6rVlWM7QK_m3L_6dB79CabT6hSfv7V7Y_rDQBXBRzBDUvUUAeTUpknIHLQ1qB8LrKqk_rCMg&csuir=1&mtid=8K70aIa3HZmVwbkPtubvsQw) (1995-2013)?