Yes, I know. I am asking this question again.

I am sorry if I am repeating something that has been asked but...

I spoke to cloggedmind about this. He now says it’s more likely the reason why it’s being releleased is...

“Hoarding. This happens too often in the film collectors' circles. One gets hold of rare footage and is scared to let anyone near it for fear of devaluing the material. Best examples I know of are things like the Three Stooges Cartoon/live action combo films "Stooges Scrapbook" and "The Spain Mutiny". People have them but will not share, sell or allow viewing. 2 people have also claimed in the last 12 years to have superior 16mm copies of the Stooges' swansong "Kook's Tour" but allegedly could not agree on a ransom price.“

This info came from the message

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=321436

Me and cloggedmind are thinking WHO Or WHAT company has this copy of this episode That is preventing it from being released. CBS has been contacted but they said no. Could it be the Gleason family? I spoke to Jackie’s daughter and she claimed that CBS had the rights to those color sketches. When I told her that they don’t, she said she doesn’t know. Could it be in the hands of a private collectors? I once did a tape trade with a “dealer” in Florida who had the email tvmoviesandmore@yahoo.com who said he had it but he burned me.

Me and cloggedmind are asking if there is ANYONE out there that has this?

Unfortunately I do not have a copy. Just my two cents, but I tend to believe the rumor that Jackie Gleason destroyed the portion of the show that featured Art Carney not so much because of his performance but rather because Art Carneys behavior. Jackie was trying to protect his friends career. I spoke to someone who was there fairly recently and they said Art Carneys behavior was “shocking”

In regards to Incredible World, I did speak to the guy who runs atvaudio.com. He has the audio of five of the short color Honeymooners sketches. I got the audio of them LOOOOOONG BEFORE Time Life released them and during a time when Jackie Gleason’s daughter said In 2014 that the chances of them getting released were slim and none. The guy who runs atvaudio,com told me that one time He had the audio of all seven color sketches and the Incredible World but the audio soundtrack to two of the color clutches and Incredible World got damaged due to a flood.

Hopefully, SOMEONE has this.

Unfortunately I do not have a copy. Just my two cents, but I tend to believe the rumor that Jackie Gleason destroyed the portion of the show that featured Art Carney not so much because of his performance but rather because Art Carneys behavior. Jackie was trying to protect his friends career. I spoke to someone who was there fairly recently and they said Art Carneys behavior was “shocking”

Dissertation time! Apologies (apple-logies!), for a long read. It rambles and covers most of the bases. Skip it if not interested..

There were mixed reports of Carney having a brief alcoholic relapse in the mid-60's. If Carney's behavior during the episode could be considered "shocking", not knowing if that is a bad performance or something just over-the-top, it could be indicative of that relapse with pinpoint accuracy. That is speculation on my part, and for all intents and purposes, there were never any official reports of Carney's television performance suffering from alcohol abuse (that I know of. If anyone has a source, let it be known!).

Now, if there was, indeed, a problem with the performance, I'd wager it never would have aired to start with or have been alluded to on the show, as Gleason relied on Carney to elevate the program and was, in any case, comfortable to let him just go with the character. If something went dreadfully wrong, they could re-take or "fly in" new material before the program went out. There would be no billing or mention of "something special" from Carney to build up viewing audiences if it wasn't going to be shown, since Carney was such a draw for people tuning in. Plus, the shows weren't live anymore, and that is an important factor, here.

The short Honeymooners sketches from the mid 60's that are featured on the Time-Life dvds, for instance, were recorded separately from the shows without an audience, all at once to accommodate Carney's, as well as the other players' availability. The sketches were heavily edited (you can hear the blips in the soundtrack!) for re-takes, flubs, etc., canned laughter was added in post, and these finished bits were added to whatever program the producers saw fit. "Incredible World.." was probably done the same way, and it did, likely, air once as I'll mention later.

In any case, the original quad master should have some record of editing or excising the footage stored with it. It has been suggested that Gleason, himself, physically cut his kinescopes to loan out or give footage to friends. Maybe true, probably not. I can sure picture him ambling into a little room after a few belts and taking a pair of scissors to a film in the vein of Reggie Van Gleason, III: "Ahem! You want a clip? I'll clip you one, you dirty...!" Gleason had people to do pretty much everything for him, And I am fairly sure that film, let alone 2" video tape, would be far above his "skill" level. Any tech or facility handling the quad masters would, theoretically anyway, make notes as to how and when the tape was handled, re-run, edited, timing of any edits, dubbing dates, transfer to film dates, any tape damage or playback issues and so forth.

The frustrating part of trying to track down what happened to that footage comes mostly from the reticence on the part of the copyright owners-- in this case the Gleason family. The storage location remains hush-hush (and whoosh-whoosh!), but whoever is the curator could provide some definitive answers with little effort, the cost of an email, and without unspooling the tape. Just check the labels on the case, open it and decipher the card inside.

We can be reasonably sure the episode aired once, as audio was purported to exist (though sadly trashed by a third party who had no idea how to handle fragile audio tape) and newspaper/trade articles mentioned the sketch in some detail. We know it does not survive, currently, on b&w 16mm film prints in collectors' hands as those have been edited, rather crudely, to include part of an earlier program in place of the Ed Norton sketch.

Time-Life gave us, I think, 27 of the Jackie Gleason color shows on their 10 dvd set, which is an odd number for the collection. The accompanying booklet claims that some tapes (erroneously referred to as "films" in their booklet!) were unusable: "The master film [for the 9/24/66 program in this instance] didn't weather the years well," is stated in the verbiage.

Considering that the Time-Life release was, presumably, to include all "other" existing Honeymooners related sketches (barring the full episode passed over by MPI on their releases, titled "Life Upon the Wicked Stage", which remains out of circulation due to music clearances), I wonder if the 1970 episode with "Incredible World.." was intended to be included, but was one of the tapes that simply would not play or, perhaps due to editing, damage or an otherwise "Do Not Air" stipulation was deemed not usable? As a failed/unsold pilot to a series, it may have had extra/alternate funding or production that prohibits its' being included as part of the Gleason program- a run once legal agreement, perhaps.

Only an archivist or curator of the Gleason archive could tell. And in their case, for now it seems, mum's the word.

Well, thanks to the superb detective work of Mr. Frank Gannucci, we now know that this episode exists in the Gleason storage vault and is not available for licensing, viewing or otherwise.

As there is no interest from the family rights holders in this program, at present, we will be unable to track the broadcast/edit history of this particular enigma.

So, like they say down in the sewer, it's time to put a lid on this one and find something new to dive into!

Thanks cloggedmind. I am still searching for this episode. I contacted the Paley Center of The Media. Also Phil Gries from atvaudio.com says that he is confident that it will be released indue time.

Any new info ?

Sadly no.

I have been trying to find his Autobiography is there some mention of the pilot in the book?

I just found an Art Carney Special from 1960 titled The Best of Everything, you need that one

It's sad that so many of these shows are in a "vault" limbo, so to speak. I've had simliar issues with "The Farmer's Daughter." ABC aired the show, Screen Gems (later Columiba Pictures owned the show) owned the rights as it was their studio that filmed the show. Through research I learned that Screen Gems held the rights to some of the episodes and another group held the rights to the remainder. The show aired in re-runs on 16mm at local tv stations, that last time airing in the mide 80s. The show was supposed to air on Antenna TV in 2011 but was told, by Sony, the prints are not broadcast quality. Sony apperently owned the rights after Columbia. I contacted a VP in media who said they no longer own the rights and ABC TV said THEY don't have rights to the show. In my research, Sony IS still the rights holder according to the Copyright office. So the episodes are probably decaying in a vault somewhere as they were never put to master. They're probably a lost cause and some of the episodes remain missing.

Are you looking for certain episodes, I have (2) different of Farmer's Daughter on DVD

Does it have any honeymooners sketches on it?

I don't think so, but I'll check in it

I don't think so, but I'll check in it

Thanks

I, for one, would love a copy of the Art Carney special!

Do you have a trade list

I’m only interested if it has a Honeymooners sketch.

Bump. Once again, does anyone have “The Incredible World of Ed Norton sketch”?

Bump. Once again, does anyone have “The Incredible World of Ed Norton sketch”?

Still on the search I see...Good luck! I really hope you can turn something up on this.

Say, any publicity photos ever turn up? You'd think CBS would have issued the usual weekly publicity photos for that week's Gleason Show, and have publicity photos on the IWOEN...

Thank you RetroTVNiteatt. I haven’t seen any publicity photos. Maybe that week’s edition of TV Guide would.