Substitute Father was not very good. The big question is why there’s no mention of Arthur tripping him.

The weirdest was when at dinner Wally says to June he’ll carve her another piece of meat. Then Wally gets up to get the roast and while holding the plate thinks it’s too big to carve. Didn’t he just carve it? June thinks it’s not too big for him. He sits down and starts to sharpen the knife but how could he carve on the plate? Usually you carve in the kitchen on the board.

I’m surprised they didn’t cut out Eddie at the door but once again he saved the show. Hugh once again put in an appearance at the beginning so he could hightail it back home since the season was done.

Technical foibles aside, I actually like this episode. Good dialogue.

Miss Landers' facial expression reaction of utter shock upon hearing Beaver's %$#@&* remark was great. Also Wally's reaction to Beaver's whispering what he had said was pretty funny, but of course, we don't and never will know what Beaver actually "said". Within the context of an early 60s elementary school, even a mild curse might have been considered over-the-top. If it was one of the really heavy duty curses, he may have been expelled for wall we know.

I was also irritated by the way they seem to let Arthur off scot free. But then as I recall my elementary school and middle school years ( late 60s through mid 70s ) they always came down much much harder on the reactor of the fight, and not the instigator. I guess it was their way of instilling a culture of reasoned restraint, but I think they grossly overcompensated, and created a bully-friendly atmosphere. They only time they seemed to take the instigator to task was when it was blatant, and witnessed by the school staff.

I think Hugh directed this episode--I didn't check so I could be wrong.

Yes, if the swearing was anything worse than Gee, get the guillotine.

Another thing about the roast (and this happens in other sitcoms)--June asks Wally to bring the roast into the dining room. How long does that take--10 to 15 seconds, maybe?. But no, it took long enough for June and Beaver to have a long conversation about him getting into trouble at school.

And yes, Arthur, you're free to go about tripping other students at Grant Avenue School. No consequences for that. But beware, if you're the one tripped, hold your tongue!

I think we've said in other threads that Beaver should have said to Miss Landers, What about Arthur? Am I the only one who's in trouble for this?

Yeah but in most episodes Beaver and Wally never spoke up or ratted out the instigator. Like in Wally’s track meet he never told the coach about how Eddie and Lumpy started throwing towels. In Beaver, the Sheepdog after Shirley cries Beaver doesn’t say a word. I guess the motto was ‘Say Nothing.‘

Yeah that's a good point--never "tell" on anyone. Unless you're Judy.

Every once in awhile I learn something on FB. Evidently Arthur is not in the cast credits, even though the actor had a line. That happened a lot on Father Knows Best--the union rules must have been different back then.

Somebody said Arthur was played by Kurt Russell, so I looked the episode up, and the actor really isn't credited.

Definitely not Kurt Russell as he was younger than Jerry.

I liked "Substitute Father" because it showed Wally taking on Ward's role in the family and growing into adulthood. It was sort of a milestone for the series and it was probably no accident that they put it at the end of the season.

As for Arthur not being punished, that is par for the course on LITB. How many times does some kid instigate wrongdoing and Beaver takes the bait and gets in trouble while the other kid gets off scot free? As another poster said, it's trying to teach reasoned restraint in how you react to bad things, not getting caught up in them. You can argue with this approach to ethics, but it certainly fits the worldview of the show.

Give me the Andy Griffith Show any time of day. It made me laugh out loud and cry. I guess I’m really a TAGS fan at heart. It was genuinely heartwarming while at times hilarious with the talents of Don, Andy and the whole crew. Writing was genius and Andy’s winning smile was the icing. Sorry all you LITB fans.

TAGS is another show where you know every episode. Even the color ones that so many people dislike.

For me, the TAGS episodes (and I like TAGS very much) tend to blend into each other, in the sense that I have trouble distinguishing different ones. Whereas individual LITB episodes tend to stand out better in my mind. But maybe it's just me. I watched TAGS reruns as a kid during the summer, so I got to know every episode multiple times at a very young age. Whereas LITB I discovered a bit later, in my teen years, and by then I was looking at it with a more analytical eye.

Both shows represented the pinnacle of the family sitcom of that era, along with FATHER KNOWS BEST and maybe one or two other shows. But I feel a personal connection with LITB that is unique.

Particularly in the later years, TAGS is something in the background--you have it on--oh, it's the one where Andy meets with the female lawyer and Helen gets jealous again--and you go on and do something else. Because you know all the episodes front to back.

LITB is different, even though you know all those, too. Even though Beaver is more naive than most kids, we can all probably relate to many of the things that happened to or with him and the rest of the kid and teen characters. And we all knew the kid who told on everybody. We knew the wise guy, we knew the bully. We relate. It's like we're thrown back to our childhood, regardless of the era we grew up. Maybe that's why the show is unique. Many think it's a kids' show, but rather it's a show about what it's like being a kid.

Particularly in the later years, TAGS is something in the background--you have it on--oh, it's the one where Andy meets with the female lawyer and Helen gets jealous again--and you go on and do something else. Because you know all the episodes front to back.

LITB is different, even though you know all those, too. Even though Beaver is more naive than most kids, we can all probably relate to many of the things that happened to or with him and the rest of the kid and teen characters. And we all knew the kid who told on everybody. We knew the wise guy, we knew the bully. We relate. It's like we're thrown back to our childhood, regardless of the era we grew up. Maybe that's why the show is unique. Many think it's a kids' show, but rather it's a show about what it's like being a kid.

You nailed it. For me it's the whole atmosphere and story world the show creates. Ward and June as the ideal parents, guiding Beaver through the obstacles of childhood. The bad influences like Eddie Haskell and Larry Mondello, who tempt Beaver on the wrong path. The unique lingo and "kid speak." The atmosphere of the Cleaver home and the neighborhood, the '50s fashions, the stylish cars. The whole idyllic childhood feeling that the show evokes. Like you said, maybe it's a show best appreciated by adults who are looking back at and reflecting upon childhood, rather than by kids themselves.

Yup that’s all true but Beaver had its share of same plot different characters. I especially liked seasons 1-3 and later season 5 and 6 for Eddie. Not a fan of season 4.

Sweatshirt Monsters
Beaver’s Football Banquet

Lumpy scares Beaver like The Tooth and Lost Watch

Self consciousness like Wally’s Pug nose, Beaver’s Freckles, The Mustache and Sheepdog (he just had to comb back his hair).

All the problems in school where Beaver was intimidated and tried to embellish or got in too deep, like Good-Bye Beaver, Beaver made Ward a war hero, My Most Interesting Character, Mother’s Day Composition, Pet Fair, Baby Picture, School Picture etc.

Of course every TV series had the same plot look how many episodes of TAGS we see a crime in Mayberry involving Barney that is foiled by Andy!

First, ISTM that TAGS and LITB can coexist. In turn, that one can enjoy one show does not bind a watcher into not watching the other. I also believe one can't compare the two in the sense of why one is better or worse than the other: "apples and oranges" and all that. That said, I enjoy them both.

The curious thing that occurs to me, is that while TAGS is set ostensibly in the early 1960s, culturally it seems a decade or even 2 decades behind LITB. I mean, but for the early 60s vehicles ( mostly Fords ) TAGS could take place in the late 40s.

I guess I found TAGS to be more natural than LITB. I laugh more. The only time I really laugh out loud is when Wally pours ice cream on Lump’s head and down Eddie’s sweater.

TAGS has a number of standout episodes, and for me most of them aren't from the early seasons. There are a few early ones, like Mr. Mcbeevee. I'm not a real fan of the Barney and the crime episodes, which always follow the formula, Andy figures out the crime and somehow maneuvers it to have Barney get the credit.

TAGS is one of the few shows of any kind which depicts life in the South. A lot of the color episodes depart from that, for the most part abandoning the Darlings, Ernest T., and the fun girls.

I guess I found TAGS to be more natural than LITB. I laugh more. The only time I really laugh out loud is when Wally pours ice cream on Lump’s head and down Eddie’s sweater.

I laugh out loud at LITB a lot, especially at the clever dialog spoken by the kids. It's a more verbal humor. With TAGS I tend laugh at the way characters act, especially Barney, who was one of the great comic creations in TV history. But more of the humor on TAGS was physical than on LITB, where the humor was almost entirely verbal. Could you imagine Beaver and Wally ever engaging in physical slapstick? That ice cream episode stands out because it's one of the few instances of physical comedy on the show.

I did enjoy Leave it to Beaver the first two seasons as June was natural and funny and got so formal as the series went on by season 6 she was like a statue. I can thank Hugh, Ken and Rusty for creating great characters.

Really the first half of the series they're much more casual, just not as lovey-dovey in the third season. Beaver is still fresh and funny in that season, also--and we still had Larry. I think 2 is my favorite season.

Things change in the fourth season. I still like the show, just not as much.

June in the later years is stiff, cold, at times lacking compassion for beav or the situations +-.

Ward was probably was cut off by then.

Even her hair is glued up high like some stern business women might wear.

There are even moments where she actually has a scowl / smirk on her face.

Miss Landers is just to opposite of June. You think the writers meant for it to come off like that ?


Makes me think Eddie saw that and really turned it up when encountering June ! Go Eddie Go

June was such a funny partner to Ward in the early seasons. She always had a comeback. Later she had every hair in place and looked like a mannequin. It was almost unnatural to be so dressed up working at home.

Btw the later seasons of TAGS went off the rails with Warren and Goober, Howard. I bet Andy knew Warren was a bad substitute for Barney. Barney saved a few shows by showing up later. So LITB was saved in the last seasons by Eddie, but no one could save TAGS.

LITB was a very well crafted sitcom and I have enjoyed it in the past. But the older I get, the less I enjoy it, due to the parents. June, especially, is so cold toward her children - I agree that she’s like a mannequin. And Ward needs to seriously lighten up and trying ENJOYING his sons, as opposed to constantly being the disciplinarian. I grew up with parents who were often cold and remote (who in fairness warmed up considerably when we became adults), and it’s harder for me to watch now.

I just saw Andy’s English Valet for the umpteen time and that has to be the best. It was hilarious and very touching. Loved Mr. Malcolm Merriweather.