When did the show jump the shark?

For me, when they changed the settings, first from Eastland to Edna's Edibles, then from Mrs.Garrett's store to Over Our Heads, and when Mrs. Garrett left.

Your opinions?

Same. When Mrs. Garrett's character was minimized to the point where she was just a character coming in and dispensing good advice and delicious quiches, the show lost its way. It became a different series, far from its roots as a show about Edna Garrett and her seven girls at Eastland.

When Mrs. Garrett left.

Same. When Mrs. Garrett's character was minimized to the point where she was just a character coming in and dispensing good advice and delicious quiches, the show lost its way. It became a different series, far from its roots as a show about Edna Garrett and her seven girls at Eastland.

True, the show changed a lot from the beginning. If we compare Rough Housing with The Beginning of the Beginning, it seems that we are watching two different shows. The main setting (Eastland) gone and replaced with a house, the main character (Edna Garrett) gone and replaced by her sister, new characters. I miss so much Eastland and the cafeteria, open Over Our Heads was a mistake.

When Mrs. Garrett left.

Agree with MA. Everything else in the show was fine, but the loss of Mrs. Garrett was too much of a hole to ignore. Not to say the show was bad after her departure, but her loss was always felt through to the end of the series.

Jo playing piano! lol

Jo playing piano! lol

:lol:

Agree with MA. Everything else in the show was fine, but the loss of Mrs. Garrett was too much of a hole to ignore. Not to say the show was bad after her departure, but her loss was always felt through to the end of the series.


True, as retro once said: MRS G was the heart of the show, and it was never the same again after her departure.....:(:(:(:(

Trimming down the cast, but many would call that "Growing the beard" as its called when a show finds its stride.

Season 1 and 9 are the worst seasons so anything from those years. Season 1 had awful writing and characters that weren't needed. Thankfully they got rid of the characters not working and started a trend. At the beginning of season 2, networks were able to see that a female cast show can work. The Facts of Life would not have been a hit if they kept the format from season 1 so that was definitely a jump the shark season that saved itself by retooling for the rest of the series. However season 9 had the girls drifting apart and acting weird, so that's another jump the shark moment for them.

They couldn’t have avoided jumping the shark throughout the entire series, imo. Groups of friends don’t often live together through high school AND college (college and beyond maybe). Even if they had stuck to the season 1 premise, they would have eventually had to refresh with new characters, which also would have been jumping the shark.

Season 1 and 9 are the worst seasons so anything from those years. Season 1 had awful writing and characters that weren't needed. Thankfully they got rid of the characters not working and started a trend. At the beginning of season 2, networks were able to see that a female cast show can work. The Facts of Life would not have been a hit if they kept the format from season 1 so that was definitely a jump the shark season that saved itself by retooling for the rest of the series. However season 9 had the girls drifting apart and acting weird, so that's another jump the shark moment for them.

I dont think a first season can be jumping the shark, it has to be a certain point in the series where it cant be redeemed again. As I said above Season 2 was growing the beard.

Season 1 and 9 are the worst seasons so anything from those years. Season 1 had awful writing and characters that weren't needed. Thankfully they got rid of the characters not working and started a trend. At the beginning of season 2, networks were able to see that a female cast show can work. The Facts of Life would not have been a hit if they kept the format from season 1 so that was definitely a jump the shark season that saved itself by retooling for the rest of the series. However season 9 had the girls drifting apart and acting weird, so that's another jump the shark moment for them.


I strongly disagree with you regarding season 1: the set looked like a real boarding school and the actresses did just fine with their lines (especially SUE ANN was the best one out of the 'Lost girls').
It also had 2 great episodes such as 'Rough housing' and 'Like mother like daughter', where we see a lot of interaction between MRS G and CINDY vs BLAIR in one episode, and BLAIR + MRS G in the next.
Whats more: the pilot of DS 'The girl's school' was what first introduced us to FOL lol!
Nevertheless, i strongly agree with you regarding season 9: with MRS G gone by then and the girls acting weird, the writers wrote unbalanced stories, so it is no surprising the show ended....:eek::eek::eek:

In my opinion, the cafeteria looked like a real boarding school, the dorm seems more like a house. I'm not a hater of a season 1 but I prefer s2-4 and 8 (although Mrs. Garrett was gone)

I agree with the fellow season 1 fans. Most of the girls were needed. They all had individual personalities and characteristics, and therefore a place in the show, except arguably Nancy. The series of course became something wonderful, but it could also have been wonderful with a tomboy athlete, a midwest conservative, and an activist/feminist along for the ride (but a phone-glued girlfriend, maybe not so much).

the actresses did just fine with their lines (especially SUE ANN was the best one out of the 'Lost girls').

I think Julie Ann and Felice were much better. Molly may not have been "better", but she was cuter. :)

I agree with the fellow season 1 fans. Most of the girls were needed. They all had individual personalities and characteristics, and therefore a place in the show, except arguably Nancy. The series of course became something wonderful, but it could also have been wonderful with a tomboy athlete, a midwest conservative, and an activist/feminist along for the ride (but a phone-glued girlfriend, maybe not so much).

Well said, although I'll slightly disagree about Nancy not being needed. In her brief moments, we got some hilarious scenes.

Maybe the funniest was the time in "Flash Flood" when Nancy's umbrella didn't open. This was a great sight gag, and this type of joke could have been very effective in later seasons, when the other girls were discussing a more serious issue. For example, during the book banning episode, imagine Nancy walking in with a visual gag, lightening the mood momentarily.

Another funny moment was when Nancy was trying to button her super-tight jeans. Those jeans were extremely tight! :lol: This sort of gag could have been used during later seasons as well.

Sometimes Tootie and Natalie were used as the humor, while Jo and Blair provided the drama. But they could have mixed it up a little, had Nancy been retained.

And, to be honest, there were episodes where Jo was overutilized. Jo was supposed to be a loner who had no problem going out to bars and dating men (as seen in "The New Girl"). What was she doing with a steady boyfriend who she knew from her time in the Bronx, in "Teenage Marriage", later that season? That should have been Nancy, who we know had had a steady boyfriend since Spring 1980. That would have been so much better continuity.


I think Julie Ann and Felice were much better. Molly may not have been "better", but she was cuter. :)

Molly was cute as a button! "Zits!" :lol:

They couldn’t have avoided jumping the shark throughout the entire series, imo. Groups of friends don’t often live together through high school AND college (college and beyond maybe). Even if they had stuck to the season 1 premise, they would have eventually had to refresh with new characters, which also would have been jumping the shark.

Or they could have done what Degrassi did: two seasons equaled a year. Thus, they could have had eight seasons equate to four years. Then the final season could have been Mrs. G. at Edna's Edibles, with her eight employees possibly outnumbering the customers, two to one. :lol:

Of course, this would have changed things considerably. But I'm just pointing out that other '80s TV shows did it.

Oh no no, don't misunderstand me; I'm not being anti-Nancy. Of course she had some great moments, and yes, that umbrella was the funniest thing to my little boy mind EVER. :lol: I'm just objectively looking at their characters as far as being "needed" (of course, hers started out being needed in TGS, but was fading away on those typewriters very quickly...).

Another funny moment was when Nancy was trying to button her super-tight jeans. Those jeans were extremely tight! :lol:

Yes, and the way weird-dangly-half-pony/rat-tailed Mrs. Garrett gets Nancy off the floor like GUMBY :lol:, I was shocked when you told me about Nancy's big car wreck that ended her dancing career years earlier---she's so "bendy" here, you'd never know!


And, to be honest, there were episodes where Jo was overutilized. Jo was supposed to be a loner who had no problem going out to bars and dating men (as seen in "The New Girl"). What was she doing with a steady boyfriend who she knew from her time in the Bronx, in "Teenage Marriage", later that season? That should have been Nancy, who we know had had a steady boyfriend since Spring 1980. That would have been so much better continuity.

That's a good point. I just look at it as insecure "Tough Girl" Jo trying to show right away how big and bad she is to the girls and the school, so "don't mess with her". Like an act she's putting on, especially to best Blair (and no, Margie Peters is not paying me to say this :lol:).

Oh no no, don't misunderstand me; I'm not being anti-Nancy. Of course she had some great moments, and yes, that umbrella was the funniest thing to my little boy mind EVER. :lol: I'm just objectively looking at their characters as far as being "needed" (of course, hers started out being needed in TGS, but was fading away on those typewriters very quickly...).

Naw, I understood you are not anti-Nancy. I just see where her character could have been extremely useful, even as a more background character. What we saw with "Gossip" was a great example of her being utilized, even when she was no longer staying with the Core Four.


Yes, and the way weird-dangly-half-pony/rat-tailed Mrs. Garrett gets Nancy off the floor like GUMBY :lol:, I was shocked when you told me about Nancy's big car wreck that ended her dancing career years earlier---she's so "bendy" here, you'd never know!

Yeah, good point: Felice's car wreck seems to have been bad enough that it is shocking that ten years later, she was doing physical comedy on the floor.


That's a good point. I just look at it as insecure "Tough Girl" Jo trying to show right away how big and bad she is to the girls and the school, so "don't mess with her". Like an act she's putting on, especially to best Blair (and no, Margie Peters is not paying me to say this :lol:).

:lol:

I can see Jo showing off to girls she doesn't know, but picking up men at a bar just doesn't seem like the thing you would do if you were in a committed relationship with a guy, to the point where in a few episodes, you're marrying him.

By giving that episode to Nancy, the writers could have provided the continuity of a guy and a girl we know are heads over heels in love with one another, and used those characters to better effect.

I can see Jo showing off to girls she doesn't know, but picking up men at a bar just doesn't seem like the thing you would do if you were in a committed relationship with a guy, to the point where in a few episodes, you're marrying him.

True, but, I just see her as disliking Blair so much right away that she wanted to put the "rich little princess" in her place by showing her that this tough girl from the streets could get a grown man faster than she could, and to look like a "boss girl" to the younger ones (again, Margie Peters is paying me nothing here :lol:).

Honestly, this is me reconciling character points so that they can coexist. I know you know that feelig! lol


By giving that episode to Nancy, the writers could have provided the continuity of a guy and a girl we know are heads over heels in love with one another, and used those characters to better effect.

Oh, definitely...[sigh]...I can't remember what it was that specifically lead me to alter the episode guides for the series to be all-girl-inclusive, but it's so fulfilling to think of all those possibilities...

I agree with most of it: NANCY would have definitely done a great story at the bar as well as all the 'lost girls', and here is how i range from favourite to least favourite,

1. SUE ANN

2. NANCY

3. MOLLY

4. CINDY

I apologize to the MOLLY or CINDY fans, but i found SUE ANN far more amusing lol! (she seemed to always get in trouble by the bad influence of BLAIR ha ha!) as well as NANCY: she was very expressive and delivered the greatest lines (when she had them).

Agree?
Disagree?

I agree with most of it: NANCY would have definitely done a great story at the bar as well as all the 'lost girls', and here is how i range from favourite to least favourite,

1. SUE ANN

2. NANCY

3. MOLLY

4. CINDY

I apologize to the MOLLY or CINDY fans, but i found SUE ANN far more amusing lol! (she seemed to always get in trouble by the bad influence of BLAIR ha ha!) as well as NANCY: she was very expressive and delivered the greatest lines (when she had them).

Agree?
Disagree?


I agree that Sue Ann could be quite amusing.

My order is:

1. Cindy and Sue Ann (I can't choose between them)

3. Nancy

4. Molly


To me, The Julies made the show better. Taking them away took away a big part of what made the show resonate: the rivalry between city slicker and hayseed; the contrast between sophistication and awkwardness; the clash between cheese dip avoiders and binge dieters. To a lesser extent, dumping Molly and Nancy also harmed the show by making the school feel tiny, and by eliminating some important character traits we'd never again see. There should have been room for seven girls... even eight, if they felt the need to bring in another girl on a show with "too many girls".

CINDY!
Molly!
Sue Ann
Nancy



the clash between cheese dip avoiders and binge dieters.

:lol:

Now I'm picturing Cindy chasing a fleeing, crash dieting Sue Ann all around the common room taunting her with the bowl of cheese dip she FINALLY decided to go get!

:rofl:

1. Sue Ann
2. Cindy
3.Nancy
4. Molly

Now I'm picturing Cindy chasing a fleeing, crash dieting Sue Ann all around the common room taunting her with the bowl of cheese dip she FINALLY decided to go get!

:rofl:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

"I don't want it, that's for sure!" ;)

I agree that Sue Ann could be quite amusing.

My order is:

1. Cindy and Sue Ann (I can't choose between them)

3. Nancy

4. Molly


To me, The Julies made the show better. Taking them away took away a big part of what made the show resonate: the rivalry between city slicker and hayseed; the contrast between sophistication and awkwardness; the clash between cheese dip avoiders and binge dieters. To a lesser extent, dumping Molly and Nancy also harmed the show by making the school feel tiny, and by eliminating some important character traits we'd never again see. There should have been room for seven girls... even eight, if they felt the need to bring in another girl on a show with "too many girls".


That's an interesting point of view you've got here, retro and i like the contrast you wrote between both JULIES!;););)

And yes, you know i will always agree with you on that one: dumping the LOST GIRLS was definitely a very bad move from the writers (even though you and i are on the minority here, since most people 'LOVE' JO!) and i will indefinitely regret not seeing 8 girls forever (adding JO) under the wings of MRS G...:(

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

"I don't want it, that's for sure!" ;)

:lol:

"C'mon, Sue Ann! You can run it off tomorrow!"

:lol:

"C'mon, Sue Ann! You can run it off tomorrow!"

"Not with these thunder thighs!"

*scoots across floor*

That's an interesting point of view you've got here, retro and i like the contrast you wrote between both JULIES!;););)

And yes, you know i will always agree with you on that one: dumping the LOST GIRLS was definitely a very bad move from the writers (even though you and i are on the minority here, since most people 'LOVE' JO!) and i will indefinitely regret not seeing 8 girls forever (adding JO) under the wings of MRS G...:(

I'm not sure how much of a minority we actually are, these days. Because of social media, celebrities' images are no longer under tight control by the media. This means that alternate viewpoints can now be shared, in a way they couldn't be in, say, Fall 1980, when there were only three viewpoints: the views of CBS, the views of ABC, and the views of NBC.

Now, alternate takes on TV series have been heard. My Lost Girls video on YouTube is approaching 1 million views, and it has been widely liked and commented on by viewers. Thousands have commented on the fact that, although they loved the show, they missed the original characters: the way the show was meant to be.