Did Roy Harrell see Brad Bishop in Italy?

1 - Yes, it was Brad Bishop that Harrell encountered.
2 - No, it was someone else that Harrell has mistaken for Bishop.

Unless Harrell is flat out lying about the whole encounter, which I don't see why he would, I'd have to say yes. He knew him pretty well. And if he was mistaking Bishop for someone else whoever it was could have just politely declined that he was Bishop. He wouldn't have just panicked and ran away like that.

Like I said, its possible he is lying about the whole thing for reasons we can only speculate on, but if the encounter happened as he said I'd have to say it was probably Bishop.

I think it likely he ran into a guy who was homeless/had mental health issues that just bore a resemblance to him & this guy then panicked when he suddenly had some random person saying he was a murderer & needed to go back with him to the US. That somebody in recent times said they believed Bishop was the victim of a hit & run in Alabama in 1981 thanks to a tip-police then exhumed the body & performed a DNA test which confirmed it wasn't him. The sightings are likely what we always see-people mistakenly reporting others-look at all the sightings of Madeline McMann the last 13 years that amounted to nothing etc.

I think it likely he ran into a guy who was homeless/had mental health issues that just bore a resemblance to him & this guy then panicked when he suddenly had some random person saying he was a murderer & needed to go back with him to the US. That somebody in recent times said they believed Bishop was the victim of a hit & run in Alabama in 1981 thanks to a tip-police then exhumed the body & performed a DNA test which confirmed it wasn't him. The sightings are likely what we always see-people mistakenly reporting others-look at all the sightings of Madeline McMann the last 13 years that amounted to nothing etc.

I don't recall that Harrell accused the man of being a murderer, he just asked him something like, "you are Brad Bishop aren't you? come with me lets talk."

And I doubt some random crazy guy in Italy would recognize the name Brad Bishop either. Most people in America wouldn't, unless you are a crime TV show junky like us.

Given that Harrell was a friend of Bishop's he would be far more likely to recognize him than a stranger seeing him from a picture or composite.

I think unless Harrell was lying about the whole encounter, it was probably Bishop.

I don't recall that Harrell accused the man of being a murderer, he just asked him something like, "you are Brad Bishop aren't you? come with me lets talk."

And I doubt some random crazy guy in Italy would recognize the name Brad Bishop either. Most people in America wouldn't, unless you are a crime TV show junky like us.

Given that Harrell was a friend of Bishop's he would be far more likely to recognize him than a stranger seeing him from a picture or composite.

I think unless Harrell was lying about the whole encounter, it was probably Bishop.

I don't find his story likely-UM were known for changing/inventing dialogue. The big thing is why if it was Bishop would he not just say sorry I have no idea who you think I am & walk away? Why run like a crazy/guilty man screaming which would just draw attention to you-again, was this artistic licence on the part of the show to make it seem more dramatic than it really was?

It seems hard to believe this guy wouldn't have said something about him killing his family. I know chance is also something where this could happen, but what is the chance of Bishop happening to be in a restroom at exactly the same time as an old work colleague/friend in another country? Same with all these other alleged sightings in other countries-most likely it was just seeing reports of it in the media & then their mind seeing him, as we always see with missing people/vehicle cases where reports of seeing somebody come in from all over the place & then it turns out the person is found dead & often in the vehicle & couldn't have been alive when all these sightings are coming in.

My gut feeling is that Harrell did see Bishop.

I don't think anyone else would have panicked like he did and run outside to a blinding rainstorm.

Did Roy Harrell see Brad Bishop in Italy?

1 - Yes, it was Brad Bishop that Harrell encountered.
2 - No, it was someone else that Harrell has mistaken for Bishop.
I believe he probably did. I was reading an old reddit thread where someone pointed out that the sightings of WBB in Europe where all from people who knew and interacted with him regularly before the murders and disappearance. They did not recognize him from what they saw on a wanted poster or tv. They would have known his stance,walking patterns,facial expressions etc you just can't perceive from a 2 d image or tv. There were 3 separate sightings from a diplomat, a couple he played tennis with and Mr. Harrell. All three knew WBB either personally or professionally and spent a lot of time with him.

nope. I believe he thought he saw Bishop but it most likely was not him.

For a long time I was 100% convinced that his sighting was legitimate. Recently, I have conceded that while I still believe his story, it was likely a case of mistaken identity. I recently saw a photo on unsolved.com that is a doppelganger of my father's coworker and close to 100% of witnesses would finger him in a photo lineup. In fact, someone even commented that they saw the person in my hometown and reported it.

If I was in Italy and had someone yelling at me in a foreign language and running towards me in a confined space I would have probably taken off too. Given that Bishop was apparently a very smart man I would suspect he would have calmly said something like "no English" with an accompanying puzzled look.

No, and he made it up.

I don't think he did. I still believe that Bishop committed suicide somewhere along the Appalachian Trial shortly after dumping his car.

I used to believe this hands down, but more recently as I've read the accounts that cast doubt on if not completely discredit Harrell, I'm not so sure.
If Bishop did kill himself along at AT as TheCars1986 suggests, I'm sure there are plenty of places no one would ever find his remains.

I have to admit that this case was never one of my favorites, so I never really dug into it outside of skimming some articles and what was shown on the UM segment. I had no idea that Bishop had had correspondence with an inmate in North Carolina in the months prior to the murders, and the letters seem to show that he was soliciting people to murder his family while he was away on a business trip. The fact that he went ahead and committed the murders himself makes me think that the passed over promotion was the boiling point, and that he killed himself shortly after abandoning his car.

No, and he made it up.

I'm kind of 60/40 in favour of he did see him, but the doubt side is him making it up. I realize my opinion could charitably be described as logically complicated. I don't think it was a case of mistaken identity.

For a long time I was 100% convinced that his sighting was legitimate. Recently, I have conceded that while I still believe his story, it was likely a case of mistaken identity.

^^^^ This is what I think too.

Young me believed it. Old me thinks he believes he saw BB but I don't think he did. For one thing, I can't see him wondering around in this homeless, disheveled state and if he was, that he could be recognized so quickly after so many years. The sighting was probably real but I don't think it was him or that BB was ever in Europe.

For a long time I was 100% convinced that his sighting was legitimate. Recently, I have conceded that while I still believe his story, it was likely a case of mistaken identity. I recently saw a photo on unsolved.com that is a doppelganger of my father's coworker and close to 100% of witnesses would finger him in a photo lineup. In fact, someone even commented that they saw the person in my hometown and reported it.

If I was in Italy and had someone yelling at me in a foreign language and running towards me in a confined space I would have probably taken off too. Given that Bishop was apparently a very smart man I would suspect he would have calmly said something like "no English" with an accompanying puzzled look.

If it was Bishop, he was likely caught completely off guard. I don't think its inconceivable he reacted that way out of surprise and shock.

Plus, this was the guy who murdered his whole family. He could very well have gone insane, maybe even committed suicide later, even if he didn't right away while he was still in the smokies.

I still say if Harrell is telling the truth, then It was him. Obviously its just speculation though we got no way to know for sure.

Harrell wasn't the only person who alleged to have seen Bishop over in Italy. If this were just a homeless doppelganger for Bishop, who had been approached by others in the past asking if he was Bishop, I could see the surprised reaction from the man as a possibility.

If it was Bishop, he was likely caught completely off guard. I don't think its inconceivable he reacted that way out of surprise and shock.
For someone who is allegedly as smart and psychopathic as him, I highly doubt it. I know a few people who are capable (emphasis on capable) of murdering their family without a moment of guilt and they all have one thing in common: they are all excellent communicators and expert manipulators: these are the kind of people who are able to stab someone in front of group of cops and convince them they are the victim. This is not the reaction of someone who is highly skilled and has had plenty of time to plan going into hiding because he would have known that eventually someone from his life would have recognized him and planned accordingly.

If he is not a cold blooded psychopath and just killed in a fit of rage, I have no doubt he would have committed suicide once he fully understood what he did and if he didn't he would not survive long as a 'zombie' in the desert. The older I get the more I suspect this is what happened. I was skeptical because no body was found but there are multiple cases where it took years to find it. The first case that comes to mind was Phillip Kramar: he literally called 911 telling them he was going to kill himself, was not far from the USA's second biggest city and it took over 4 YEARS for his body and vehicle to be found!

From what I understand its not as much of a coincidence as it sounds. I don't remember where I read it but supposedly it was a place that both men had gone to several times for work so it's not so odd for Bishop to have moved there or for Harrell to have traveled there on a business trip. And also that Bishop has been spotted other places he traveled for work and was spotted by other former co workers.

I don't think he did. I still believe that Bishop committed suicide somewhere along the Appalachian Trial shortly after dumping his car.

Kinda unrelated but I think that's what happened to Robert William Fisher too.

Kinda unrelated but I think that's what happened to Robert William Fisher too.

Without a shadow of a doubt I think Fisher committed suicide and his body is yet to be uncovered in Tonto National Forest.

Bishop I'm not so sure about. Logically, suicide makes sense in the light of his mental health problems, and several people have disappeared from or in the Smokies without a trace. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if what's left of Bishop's remains are hidden beneath soil and layers of heavy underbrush, as Mike Riemer's were. Parts of the park are so steep and overgrown I am absolutely certain they haven't seen human footsteps in decades, if not a century. Sometimes I think his bones could be up there, just 40 minutes away from my house, and it kind of gives me the chills.

But Bishop's first attempt to hire a hit man, his perhaps pathological streak of competitiveness, his inclination toward Europe and ability to speak several of its languages give me pause and I just as well wouldn't be particularly surprised if he's buried in a pauper's grave somewhere in Italy, either.

I used to believe Harrell's account implicitly. I'm about 75% on it now. I'm not sure he made it up completely, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that some of the details may have been remembered differently than what actually happened, or that they were flat-out embellished.

I don't think it was Brad Bishop. Roy just got too close to the guy, and he panicked and ran because of Coronavirus social distancing.

My gut says yes he did. Common sense tells me that if it wasn't him, the person would have just said "No, you have the wrong person", and wouldn't have seemed so panicked.
Only reason I can think of as to why he would lie about it would be to help him cover it up, and make the investigators think he was in Italy when he wasn't. However, I didn't get that vibe from the segment. I think he really saw him.

Kinda unrelated but I think that's what happened to Robert William Fisher too.

I agree with this.

With regards to Bishop, I'm not sure where he intended to go since he abandoned his car and took his dog with him. Had his car been found somewhere closer to "civilization", I think the odds that he took off would go up dramatically.

You can watch an updated 2016 interview with Roy on a special Crime Watch Daily did in 2016. I think he tells the same story. I'm not sure if it was Bishop or not but I think Roy is being honest about seeing someone he believed was Bishop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTXQsd-dj4&ab_channel=TrueCrimeDaily

I wish this family annihilator would get caught every time I see a picture of his wife and three sons. If he isn't dead yet, he will likely die under his new identity and the mystery will never be solved.

Wasn't there a confirmed sighting of Bishop along with some unknown woman buying a pair of tennis shoes that were paid for with his credit card at a store in North Carolina?

If so, that would be extremely odd for a guy who would soon be committing suicide in the Smokies.

I'm kind of 60/40 in favour of he did see him, but the doubt side is him making it up. I realize my opinion could charitably be described as logically complicated. I don't think it was a case of mistaken identity.

Please explain the "logically complicated" part...

Please explain the "logically complicated" part...

I think he saw him, or is making it up for the sake of attention. I don't think it is mistaken identity. Complicated may not be the best word - they are just polar opposite.

I used to believe Harrell's account implicitly. I'm about 75% on it now. I'm not sure he made it up completely, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that some of the details may have been remembered differently than what actually happened, or that they were flat-out embellished.

I may be repeating myself from the Bishop thread but I take the stance that anything Roy Harrell said should be taken with a grain of salt. Reading articles online, a few mentioned how investigators baited him into agreeing to outright lies regarding Bishop, felt like a real eye opener. I feel he got so caught up in the "celebrity" aspect of being the last one to see Bishop before the murders, that he reacted like you said; probably misremembering details or flat-out embellishing them.

I also have my doubts over Roy's statement in regards to Annette and Lobilia telling Bishop that he was "washed up" and "not going anywhere in his career," since every other account from people who knew the family would suggest they wouldn't DARE ever say that to his face.

I also have my doubts over Roy's statement in regards to Annette and Lobilia telling Bishop that he was "washed up" and "not going anywhere in his career," since every other account from people who knew the family would suggest they wouldn't DARE ever say that to his face.

I too found that odd that he recounted that in his UM interview, considering these guys were nothing more than casual work associates. I find it hard to believe that Bishop would have told Harrell these things, and I think it was simply Harrell trying to pseudo-analyze Bishop's motive for the murders.

John Walsh’s The Hunt did a segment on Brad Bishop and interviews a family friend who painted the mother in a far more favorable light. The segment too focused a lot on Brad’s demons and also how being kept in Washington as opposed to being sent abroad made things far more difficult financially for him. His insecure feelings were probably magnified by his ever growing financial burden.

John Walsh’s The Hunt did a segment on Brad Bishop and interviews a family friend who painted the mother in a far more favorable light. The segment too focused a lot on Brad’s demons and also how being kept in Washington as opposed to being sent abroad made things far more difficult financially for him. His insecure feelings were probably magnified by his ever growing financial burden.

I really enjoyed The Hunt's profile of Bishop. I am surprised he was never caught. It was on CNN, I believe.

Wasn't there a confirmed sighting of Bishop along with some unknown woman buying a pair of tennis shoes that were paid for with his credit card at a store in North Carolina?

If so, that would be extremely odd for a guy who would soon be committing suicide in the Smokies.

That detail would suggest that Bishop was having a secret affair about the time he tried to put a hit on his family.

I don't think he committed suicide in the mountains if his goal was to live abroad in Europe. He had the resources to build a new identity. But another more recent documentary highlighted a makeshift grave seen a long the trail in Appalachia of where he disappeared. That grave was believed to have been where he buried his dog, the sole living witness behind the massacre.

I recently found this article about Roy's alleged sighting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1979/08/19/bradford-bishop-search-leads-to-italy/d392e5d7-1b9c-4360-827e-e9a192efdfb2/

If he did make up the story, at least he seems to be fairly consistent in his telling of it.

Hell to the no. Harrell seemed pretty disingenuous to me. He looked like he was simply enjoying the attention and the Italy story was just the proverbial cherry on top of his entire BS sundae.

Yes - the story that RH told about the "alleged" sighting of WBB was a very obvious steaming pile of B.S.

I.e., RH stated that in 1978, he saw WBB looking like a homeless vagrant (beard, unkempt & dirty clothes, etc.) in a bathroom in Italy - while he was there on vacation. And, when confronted, the vagrant ran away in fear. Ridiculous. First of all - how would RH have recognized WBB w/a dirty face, full beard, and unkempt clothes - especially if he had never seen him look that way before?! This makes no sense.

If this incident even took place (which I find unlikely), it's slightly possible that RH saw a vagrant in Italy & confronted him. And, if this did occur - the vagrant was probably startled/freaked out that RH was acting like he knew him - and ran away as a result. Or, maybe the vagrant was drunk/on drugs - which would explain his strange behavior.

Going along with this, I don't believe that WBB would commit the heinous act of killing his family, going "on the run" & never being found.....oddly end up as a homeless vagrant in Italy....and then coincidentally run into someone he knew from the U.S. in a public bathroom...when that person was there on vacation. Yeah, right. This "possibility" is ludicrous & laughable.

I agree that RH was making up the story to make himself seem important & possibly because of $, etc.

I am saying no. Not only do I think it wasn't him, I also think he knew it wasn't him. This is a colleague who was working and competing for jobs in the same company as him. He has a lot to gain by making him look like a fugitive.

I am saying no. Not only do I think it wasn't him, I also think he knew it wasn't him. This is a colleague who was working and competing for jobs in the same company as him. He has a lot to gain by making him look like a fugitive.

I don't quite get your logic here. Making him look like a fugitive? Bishop already was a fugitive and widely believed to be a murderer. How would Harrel gain anything career wise by making him look like something he already was?

To be certain, I'm not definitively saying Harrel was telling the truth, I have no idea he may or may not have been. Just that I don't understand your reasoning here. If anything Harrel was trying to cast Bishop in slightly more favorable light by implying that his wife and mother might have pushed him over the edge. Of course I think that was a losing battle if he was trying to do that, there was absolutely no excuse for what Bishop did. But I don't think it was to gain anything career wise, unless he did it to get on TV for some kind of notoriety.

I think 99.9% chance is no.

.1% chance it was him.

I'd say 90% or better chance he did. He saw him, there was a moment of shock on both parts of recognition, then Bishop high tailed it out of there to avoid getting caught.

The other sightings are less certain, but I could believe at least some of them given that Roy saw him.

Absolutely not.

I don't quite get your logic here. Making him look like a fugitive? Bishop already was a fugitive and widely believed to be a murderer. How would Harrel gain anything career wise by making him look like something he already was?

To be certain, I'm not definitively saying Harrel was telling the truth, I have no idea he may or may not have been. Just that I don't understand your reasoning here. If anything Harrel was trying to cast Bishop in slightly more favorable light by implying that his wife and mother might have pushed him over the edge. Of course I think that was a losing battle if he was trying to do that, there was absolutely no excuse for what Bishop did. But I don't think it was to gain anything career wise, unless he did it to get on TV for some kind of notoriety.

I'll clarify. I don't feel as if Bishop was involved in this. I may be in the minority. But to me if someone is working a government job and something like this happens to their family and they go missing, then there is a good chance they knew too much about something. Making Bishop look like the murderer is a good cover. We already know of people - regular people - that died based on knowing something they shouldn't have known. Cindy Anderson probably overheard drug dealers interacting. Stanley Greyziec is another example, and he definitely knew something. Why do we assume that in a more secretive situation like a government job that someone can't be onto some corruption and then get "offed" like that and make it look like they went beserk? The government more than anyone would be able to cover things like this up. Not to mention the day prior William doesn't get a promotion he wanted. He may not have been willing to follow the "rules" to get this position if you get my drift.

Roy Harrell works with him, he likely benefitted in his job from William disappearing. He has plenty to gain by making him look like a crazed lunatic who is still alive on the other end of the world. The odds that two years later he runs into him in Italy in a bathroom is beyond remote. To me I think he was killed himself and that's why he's never turned up.

He didn't seem to have trouble at home, he still had a good job, he had a lovely family. Never heard of issues with his wife. Roy Harrell - him again - implies his wife and mother drove him over the edge. William died with his family in my opinion.

It's not the most outlandish alternative theory ever put out there.

If I recall, however, there were witnesses for him buying new sneakers, the tools needed to dig the hole and also the can of gas.

It's not the most outlandish alternative theory ever put out there.

If I recall, however, there were witnesses for him buying new sneakers, the tools needed to dig the hole and also the can of gas.

Perhaps. Depending on who the witnesses were, how much the police/FBI/government department was corrupt to begin with. Something is missing in the story. I've never liked it. Things in UM that are coincidental are situations where the man picked up a hitchiker that attacked him but then ended up randomly killing his mother at his house. That's coincidental, and you can buy that, but a guy who likely would benefit from Bishop not being around and then painting him as a crazy person living halfway across the world...................nope, not buying it. And that is just one layer of the story

I'll clarify. I don't feel as if Bishop was involved in this. I may be in the minority. But to me if someone is working a government job and something like this happens to their family and they go missing, then there is a good chance they knew too much about something. Making Bishop look like the murderer is a good cover. We already know of people - regular people - that died based on knowing something they shouldn't have known. Cindy Anderson probably overheard drug dealers interacting. Stanley Greyziec is another example, and he definitely knew something. Why do we assume that in a more secretive situation like a government job that someone can't be onto some corruption and then get "offed" like that and make it look like they went beserk? The government more than anyone would be able to cover things like this up. Not to mention the day prior William doesn't get a promotion he wanted. He may not have been willing to follow the "rules" to get this position if you get my drift.

Roy Harrell works with him, he likely benefitted in his job from William disappearing. He has plenty to gain by making him look like a crazed lunatic who is still alive on the other end of the world. The odds that two years later he runs into him in Italy in a bathroom is beyond remote. To me I think he was killed himself and that's why he's never turned up.

He didn't seem to have trouble at home, he still had a good job, he had a lovely family. Never heard of issues with his wife. Roy Harrell - him again - implies his wife and mother drove him over the edge. William died with his family in my opinion.

I can certainly see the merit of the theory that William was a victim rather than a perpetrator and it was a frame job.

Bishop was a Yale grad (Skull and Bones), had worked in counterintelligence operations, and had been posted to Italy, Ethiopia, and Gaborone in Botswana.

Certainly this raises questions of a foreign intelligence connection, did he spy for the Soviets or Chinese and get caught? That might be one way to end up missing and framed as a mass murderer. Wouldn't necessarily conflict with some of the official version either, demanding mother-in-law living off him might have made him financially vulnerable to an offer of some additional money in exchange for information, that was and is a common tactic.

The fact the FBI put him on the most wanted list later is the most dissuading evidence for the theory in my book, had he been taken out they would not want to draw attention to him.

But you are quite right about UM cases of people who knew too much disappearing or turning up dead. Danny Casolaro, Charles Morgan, Doug Johnston (mistaken for Don Devereux) all belong on that list too.

I can certainly see the merit of the theory that William was a victim rather than a perpetrator and it was a frame job.

Bishop was a Yale grad (Skull and Bones), had worked in counterintelligence operations, and had been posted to Italy, Ethiopia, and Gaborone in Botswana.

Certainly this raises questions of a foreign intelligence connection, did he spy for the Soviets or Chinese and get caught? That might be one way to end up missing and framed as a mass murderer. Wouldn't necessarily conflict with some of the official version either, demanding mother-in-law living off him might have made him financially vulnerable to an offer of some additional money in exchange for information, that was and is a common tactic.

The fact the FBI put him on the most wanted list later is the most dissuading evidence for the theory in my book, had he been taken out they would not want to draw attention to him.

But you are quite right about UM cases of people who knew too much disappearing or turning up dead. Danny Casolaro, Charles Morgan, Doug Johnston (mistaken for Don Devereux) all belong on that list too.

Correct. It is something to ponder for sure. But it ought to be a good option to think about. We all agree that a cop can be killed if he knows too much or even a regular citizen. People kill their own family all of the time. But it seems there are people that all of the sudden will clam up and deny that it is not possible that the government could ever be involved in murder. The things the government knows would make the hair on the back of our neck stand up, and the things they keep from us are not exactly things they'd want to have get out. Did Bishop know something? We'll never know.

Whether it was Bishop or not, or whether the encounter even happened in the first place, we still got one of the greatest UM re-enactment moments of all time out of it :lol:

And for that, I'm thankful.

No.

Just an interesting note.. I'm not sure why this is popping back up in the news, but Kathy Gilchrist did an interview with WRC in Washington that aired yesterday

The FBI confirmed she was his daughter back in '21.. Not sure if this is the first time she's speaking publicly or what..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ogoyu__MAg

No.

Whether it was Bishop or not, or whether the encounter even happened in the first place, we still got one of the greatest UM re-enactment moments of all time out of it :lol:

And for that, I'm thankful.

The run up the men’s room stairs, little bottles of fancy soap and towels flying every which way, the actor tripping at the start of the chase, that part of it was timed perfectly. I hope that was done in one take. Since UM often went on location I have to wonder if they high-tailed it to Italy just to get 4 minutes of footage.

I do question if this event happened the way Roy Harrell explained it. If at all. We are learning more and more that UM liked to leave out some of the truth in order to make room for reports like this that make the case seem more mysterious.

I don't know, but i do know that world has a strange way of playing out...

I dated a girl here in NY for about 18 months and we split in 2008, about 10 years later i went to spain on vacation and it wasn't even a well known resort, but one day we walked past a water park, well they do that thing where they take your picture when you go on some ride and then try selling it to you later.

outside the waterpark framed behind a type of glass/plastic were some display pictures of random people going down the waterslide.. one of the people in the pictures was my ex! i mean this wasn't like madrid or barcelona, it was a small town. we hadnt been there when we were a couple, never spoken about this town or even spain. but there she was..

what are the chances? the world does these wierd things, were you can live in the same town as someone, never bump into each other and then had some encounter on another continent..