When Andy and Barney are cornered by Daphne and Skippy during season 4's episode "Fun Girls", Helen Crump assumes the worst and becomes furious with Andy. The same green-eyed monster is aroused in season 5's episode "Guest in the House"

Then in season 6 episode titled "Andy's Rival" when the tables are turned and Ms Crump is spending after hours with Frank Smith, Andy becomes jealous, but Helen once again gets angry for Andy daring to suspect her devotion.

Whyzit the men are always put on the defensive in these matters and the women always try to claim just cause for being the one to get angry?

She was never my favorite of Andy’s girlfriends. I liked Peggy McMillan the rich girl a lot better than Helen. Or even the county nurse.

She was never my favorite of Andy’s girlfriends. I liked Peggy McMillan the rich girl a lot better than Helen. Or even the county nurse.

I liked her too. Joanna Moore, appeared in 4 episodes of TAGS, all 4 using the name Peggy McMillan

But I believe there were two distinct characters named Peggy McMillan, both played by Moore.....

The Rich Girlfriend being one of them, and then a more down to earth Mayberry local in "Opie's Rival", "Andy and Opie Bachelors", And "Barney mends a broken heart" where Peggy McMillan is cast as the county nurse.

The last of which should not be confused with the Episode named "The County Nurse" where the nurse character name was "Mary Simpson" played by Julie Adams

Convoluted isn't it?

Still, I'm a bit perplexed over the dual standard outlined in my original post. Helen was self-righteously angry in all three instances I mention, while Andy was put under the gun to make amends over "nothing" basically. It seems sexist to presume the man owes the apology in all instances.

I can just envision if Andy were the one expressing anger, Helen would be deriding him for being selfish and immature....

Yes, Joanna Moore. She played a nice character in all of her episodes. They should have made her his steady girlfriend.

Andy was always put into the position of having to lie, due to her obsessive jealousy. One example was when Andy had to go to Raleigh to meet with the lawyer, who turned out to be a lady. Having to lie about his sunburn, sweating it out when Howard mentioned knowing Lee Drake, but it turned out to be another one. And of course Helen goes ballistic when she meets the lawyer when she comes out of the courthouse.

Just like she goes nuts when she finds out Andy and the old girlfriend both got up early at the cabin.

She is nuts! Andy would have done better with Charlene Darling.

I think Andy would have been best with Ellie Walker (and Opie would have had a much warmer stepmother).

Did anyone besides Mr. Griffith like her?

I think Andy would have been best with Ellie Walker (and Opie would have had a much warmer stepmother).

Did anyone besides Mr. Griffith like her?

I've met a few people that did like Helen but even they admit there were numerous times she acted out of line and the few times they were romantic were few and far between.

One thing that doesn't get brought up about discussions of Andy's girlfriends is Barbara Griffith's involvement in trying to separate Andy from them. For those who don't know Barbara and Andy's relationship made Andy and Helen's arguments look tame in comparison (To give an idea of how bad it was the reason Andy wears a cast in Aunt Bea the Warden and the Farm Takes a Shot was due to Andy Griffith punching a hole in the wall during a fight with his wife and a week later Barbara would top him by putting her fist through the gfront door during a fight) Barbara was one of the reasons that Peggy was removed and I imagine that initially she was okay with Crump because she like everyone else figured she would be a one-off character (particularly since Andy and Anita Coursaut both got into a big fight the first day of rehearsing Andy Discovers America). Unfortunately for her Helen became a new character and Aneta became Andy's mistress.

Barbara was one of the reasons that Peggy was removed and I imagine that initially she was okay with Crump because she like everyone else figured she would be a one-off character . Unfortunately for her Helen became a new character and Aneta became Andy's mistress.

I've often wondered if perhaps AG was "demanding" in that way with his female co-stars. At least at the height of his career. Wondering if that could have been a factor in Elinore Donahue's early departure?

I've often wondered if perhaps AG was "demanding" in that way with his female co-stars. At least at the height of his career. Wondering if that could have been a factor in Elinore Donahue's early departure?

Initially Andy was actually shy about being around women and performing love scenes (Fun Fact: Betty Lynn (Thelma Lou) actually had a huge crush on Andy Griffith but Griffith didn't make the move due to shyness and initially not wanting to break up his marriage). However by Season 3 that changed as Andy had no problem being romantic with Peggy and Helen. I think the hole in the wall might've been the straw that broke the Camel's back when it came to Griffith leaving his shyness and becoming more willing to be romantic and be a playboy. It's worth noting that after his divorce from Barbara and Aneta turning down his three marriage proposals that he managed to briefly be married to a Greek heiress before getting his third wife.

I've met a few people that did like Helen but even they admit there were numerous times she acted out of line and the few times they were romantic were few and far between.

One thing that doesn't get brought up about discussions of Andy's girlfriends is Barbara Griffith's involvement in trying to separate Andy from them. For those who don't know Barbara and Andy's relationship made Andy and Helen's arguments look tame in comparison (To give an idea of how bad it was the reason Andy wears a cast in Aunt Bea the Warden and the Farm Takes a Shot was due to Andy Griffith punching a hole in the wall during a fight with his wife and a week later Barbara would top him by putting her fist through the gfront door during a fight) Barbara was one of the reasons that Peggy was removed and I imagine that initially she was okay with Crump because she like everyone else figured she would be a one-off character (particularly since Andy and Anita Coursaut both got into a big fight the first day of rehearsing Andy Discovers America). Unfortunately for her Helen became a new character and Aneta became Andy's mistress.

Even though Peggy was more likable than Helen (but still easily paled compared to Ellie), IMO, it's just as well that the 1st Mrs. Griffith got rid of Peggy played by Joanna Moore (AKA the 1st Mrs. Ryan O'Neal). Life was challenging enough for the Griffith kids without somehow having to get mixed up with the O'Neals even on a part time basis had their respective parents managed to make their hookup official.

I've often wondered if perhaps AG was "demanding" in that way with his female co-stars. At least at the height of his career. Wondering if that could have been a factor in Elinore Donahue's early departure?

She said in an interview that it was a mutual decision for her to leave because Andy didn't think she was the right type as his girlfriend and she didn't think she was right for the show either. I liked the Ellie character, but I can sort of see why she and Andy feel that way since Andy is a blue-collar type guy (sheriff) and Ellie was more educated and white-collar (pharmacist). But they could have made it work since Andy eventually settled on Helen (teacher).

Supposedly Joanna Moore was going to be a regular character, but she got pregnant so she wasn't able to continue.

The issue that I really was most curious about, is why is Andy (or men in general, for the matter) the ones who take the heat when thoughts of infidelity come to the bargaining table?

Andy is immediately held guilty until proven innocent, in both scenarios. And in the case where it's Helen spending her time with another man, I can just feel the "OH you are always so immature about these things" from Helen...because I've been there, done that.

Seems like what is good for the goose, should be good for the gander?

Helen's only remarkable quality was her temper. She was the only one you didn't want to p*ss off. She wasn't a bombshell, but she was smart. Aside from Ellie, I think she was faily suitable for Andy. I didn't care for all the other blondes.

As far as nastiness and foul personalities, Andy & Helen were a perfect match. I'm esp. thinking of the nasty sullen Andy of the color years. Helen & Andy were 2 peas in a nasty pot and deserved each other. I shudder to think of poor Ellie being involved with the mean and nasty color Andy in the later episodes.

As far as nastiness and foul personalities, Andy & Helen were a perfect match. I'm esp. thinking of the nasty sullen Andy of the color years. Helen & Andy were 2 peas in a nasty pot and deserved each other. I shudder to think of poor Ellie being involved with the mean and nasty color Andy in the later episodes.

Not an invalid point! The only thing is that it may have been nice for Opie to have been able to see Ellie to get breaks from that draining duo but it seems she left no forwarding address!

As far as nastiness and foul personalities, Andy & Helen were a perfect match. I'm esp. thinking of the nasty sullen Andy of the color years. .

Perhaps is was Helen that took an unfortunate toll on Andy?

Perhaps is was Helen that took an unfortunate toll on Andy?

Not just Andy, whenever Helen's onscreen everybody pays for it. Thelma Lou goes from being a sweet understanding person who only gets angry when Barney does something stupid to either being a stupid bimbo or an even more unreasonable version of Helen, Barney goes from being a likable idiot to either interfering with Andy's love life to an insane degree or being just as nasty as Andy is in the color episodes (as well as reminding people of the thankfully shortlived imaginary child gag Barney had in the third season) and even characters that almost everybody finds funny and can bring laughs working with difficult actors like George Lindsey and Francis Bavier struggle to act with an actress who has no idea how to do anything funny. I remember reading an interview Howard Morris (Ernest T Bass) did talking among other things talking about how difficult it was working with Aneta Coursaut during the filming of The Education of Ernest T Bass because unlike the actress that played Mrs. Wiley (who played the character like she was playing the dame in the Marx Brothers films) Aneta couldn't do comedic anger and it really annoyed him how straight she played the part when it came to the anger she had towards Bass who compared to the last three episodes was actually acting quite tame, largely due to writers Everette Greenbaum and Jim Fritzell knowing all to well about Crump's character and Aneta's limitations being funny. Morris said that it made it very difficult to play off her character because even as a good an actor as he was, when you have someone yelling at you like that it's hard to keep the scene going, particularly when you're also having to tone down what you normally do to appease a character that is only around because the main actor who owns a significant stake in the show enjoys watching quote TV with her on set (even if underage castmembers walk in on them watching it. I can only imagine that poor little girl that played Sharon Porter walking in on a naked Andy Griffith and Aneta Coursaut royally watching Quote TV.

When Andy decides to go out with Mavis Neff (Elaine Joyce), as he finds Helen spending time with another man -- WOW - I mean, Elaine Joyce was downright hot and it was all pretty interesting. Likely that character as established (briefly) would've been just too flighty for Andy to play off of, as a long-term girlfriend.

That little fling to me emphasized how playful and spontaneous others could be, as opposed to how Andy and Helen, it seemed, rarely had any real fun together.

I have to admit that they were a perfect pair during the final seasons. Andy was just too grumpy and Helen liked to look smug everywhere she went.

I still can't make sense why she chose to mark down Opie's essay. Even Andy tried to find out why (poor grammar, misspelling) and I think she mentioned that she didn't like it. :eek:

Still, I'm a bit perplexed over the dual standard outlined in my original post. Helen was self-righteously angry in all three instances I mention, while Andy was put under the gun to make amends over "nothing" basically. It seems sexist to presume the man owes the apology in all instances.

I can just envision if Andy were the one expressing anger, Helen would be deriding him for being selfish and immature....

Let's not forget the trip to the cabin in the woods (every sitcom has to have one of those) where both Helen and Andy's old girlfriend (I think a date for Howard) come along. Andy and the girlfriend wake up early and Andy makes up a bunch of lies BECAUSE he knows how jealous Helen gets.

And there are others like this. He jumps thru more hoops when he gets a sunburn meeting with the female attorney, at her pool.

It seems, according to Helen, Andy cannot meet with or be near or look at ANY other female besides her, BUT she can go out to the diner with her deep-voiced male publisher who calls her Helene Alexian DuBois, and NO PROBLEM-O, how dare you not trust me, Andy!

Oh, I forgot the episode where Andy goes out with another of the many single gals in Mayberry, Mavis Neff (who loves how his lap wrinkles make her all bubbly-wubbly), to get back at Helen. I don't remember who Andy was looking at in that episode. Added: I think Mavis was in the male publisher episode--Andy went out with Mavis due to the publisher.

I've met a few people that did like Helen but even they admit there were numerous times she acted out of line and the few times they were romantic were few and far between.

One thing that doesn't get brought up about discussions of Andy's girlfriends is Barbara Griffith's involvement in trying to separate Andy from them. For those who don't know Barbara and Andy's relationship made Andy and Helen's arguments look tame in comparison (To give an idea of how bad it was the reason Andy wears a cast in Aunt Bea the Warden and the Farm Takes a Shot was due to Andy Griffith punching a hole in the wall during a fight with his wife and a week later Barbara would top him by putting her fist through the gfront door during a fight) Barbara was one of the reasons that Peggy was removed and I imagine that initially she was okay with Crump because she like everyone else figured she would be a one-off character (particularly since Andy and Anita Coursaut both got into a big fight the first day of rehearsing Andy Discovers America). Unfortunately for her Helen became a new character and Aneta became Andy's mistress.

I wonder if this is why Elinor Donahue was only on in season 1.

Let's not forget the trip to the cabin in the woods (every sitcom has to have one of those) where both Helen and Andy's old girlfriend (I think a date for Howard) come along. Andy and the girlfriend wake up early and Andy makes up a bunch of lies BECAUSE he knows how jealous Helen gets.



I'll have to admit, I was more sympathetic to Helen in that particular episode.

You know? There has been a lot of discussion over the years as to who would have made a suitable replacement for Barney.

What if Andy had instead married Charlene Darling, and Briscoe had assumed the sidekick/instigator role (albeit without becoming deputy)

That's an interesting scenario. I like the idea of Andy hooking up with the more fun-loving characters, like Charlene or possibly even Ramona Ankrum (Jackie Joseph). How about having Andy go for Millie (Arlene Golonka) after she and Howard decide not to get married?

Also I might mention that Whitney Blake no longer had a regular gig after Season 4 of Hazel, and did make the one color TAGS appearance. I could imagine she and Andy together.

I liked her too. Joanna Moore, appeared in 4 episodes of TAGS, all 4 using the name Peggy McMillan

But I believe there were two distinct characters named Peggy McMillan, both played by Moore.....

The Rich Girlfriend being one of them, and then a more down to earth Mayberry local in "Opie's Rival", "Andy and Opie Bachelors", And "Barney mends a broken heart" where Peggy McMillan is cast as the county nurse.

The last of which should not be confused with the Episode named "The County Nurse" where the nurse character name was "Mary Simpson" played by Julie Adams

Convoluted isn't it?

I caught "Andy and Opie Bachelors" last night, back to back with "The Rich Girlfriend"... interesting times when Andy was playing the field.

I wonder if this is why Elinor Donahue was only on in season 1.

I really liked Elinor Donahue, so classy.