The case eliot ness never solved Also known as the Cleveland Torso Murderer, this horrifying, historic case remains unsolved. This serial killer is believed to be responsible for upwards of 12 murders in Cleveland, Ohio, beginning in 1935. The killer’s M.O. was to always behead and dismember his victims, sometimes cutting the body in half. Eliot Ness of the FBI spearheaded the investigation, but the case went cold. Some say the killer was the one responsible for the black dahlia murder I think it might have been Jack the ripper for the kingsbury run murders

Jack the Ripper embarked on his campaign in 1888, but the Mad Butcher operated in 1935. If Jack committed these atrocities, he would have been pretty spry for a guy who would have been entering his geriatric years. If we assume Jack started killing at the age of 18, he would have been about 65 in 1935. It’s possible for senior citizens to commit murder—I’m not saying it isn’t—but the brutality of the Cleveland murders would require considerable strength and stamina that someone that age would be unlikely to have. Plus, it’s also unlikely that Jack would gruesomely murder five people, then not commit any more until he hits his senior years and is like, “What the heck for old times’ sake?” The Ripper Murders point to a disorganized serial killer and they tend to keep going until something stops them, be it the police, the nuthouse, or death.

The case eliot ness never solved Also known as the Cleveland Torso Murderer, this horrifying, historic case remains unsolved. This serial killer is believed to be responsible for upwards of 12 murders in Cleveland, Ohio, beginning in 1935. The killer’s M.O. was to always behead and dismember his victims, sometimes cutting the body in half. Eliot Ness of the FBI spearheaded the investigation, but the case went cold. Some say the killer was the one responsible for the black dahlia murder I think it might have been Jack the ripper for the kingsbury run murders

You're insinuating that Jack the Ripper started killing again in a new country after an almost 50 year absence?

Hey! I’m half convinced the Zodiac and the Unabomber are the same dude... anything is possible! :)

Hey! I’m half convinced the Zodiac and the Unabomber are the same dude... anything is possible! :)

Rob did it.

Rob did it.


Except that.

Not to sound negative, but threads of all of these cases can be found in a simple search instead of posting multiple threads. I'm surprised that they haven't been merged with the megathreads.

It’s a fair suggestion. I’ll do what I can. I think there are posters who may not be totally clear on how to use the search function.

Except that.

:lol:

Dunno. I kind of think these are welcomely different than the usual stuff on here. I made up a new word to describe it.

There is a book that suggested Jack the ripper and the killer for kingsbury run are the same person

There is a book that suggested Jack the ripper and the killer for kingsbury run are the same person


A 70 year old Jack the ripper??

Yes there is a book that suggest that they maybe the same person

Yes there is a book that suggest that they maybe the same person

There are a lot of books about crackpot theories.

There are a lot of books about a lot of things. Doesn’t make them true.

How is it so far fetched though he mainly has the same mo as Jack the ripper and alot of other similarities

How is it so far fetched though he mainly has the same mo as Jack the ripper and alot of other similarities

Ignoring the fact that it would mean the butcher would've been at least in his late sixties or early seventies? I'd say that's a pretty big nail in the "far fetched" coffin...

I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone of that age to commit such murders. But it's fantastically unlikely.

In addition to that...why did he not have any other sprees between 1888 and the mid to late thirties? That's a long time to go dormant.

I'm not going to definitively say that there's no chance he was, but to say it's not likely is putting it lightly...

How is it so far fetched though he mainly has the same mo as Jack the ripper and alot of other similarities

It boils down to probabilities.

You have to ask yourself what are the odds that Jack the Ripper stopped killing in the East End of London in 1888 and resurfaced in the United States in Cleveland, Ohio in 1935 as the Torso Slayer.

Is it possible? Yes, anything is. Is it probable? I'd say no considering....

- the geographic distance between the two locations

- the time gap between the series of murders (there is roughly a 47 year gap between the two)

- the victimology is different. Jack targeted exclusively female prostitutes. The Torso Slayer targeted men and women.

- the MO was different. Jack mutilated his victims. The Torso Slayer castrated the men, dismembered his victims, often decapitating them. The missing body parts were usually not recovered suggesting the killer kept them.

- Jack communicated with the press (if you believe the letters were authentic). The Torso Slayer did not.

There are far more differences than similarities. In fact, aside from them both being unsolved serial murder cases involving individuals who were poverty stricken with some mutilation, there is virtually no connection.

Son of Sam shot innocent people and Zodiac shot innocent people, so they are likely one in the same killer.

I think I'll write a book about that...

I don't think the lack of murders between 1888 and 1935
Would be an argument. There could very well have been other murders during those years, it may just be that the killer was in transit most of his life and his in between murders were in a lot of different places and not enough in a row in one place at any given time to arouse suspicion of a serial killer. Or he may have hid victims during these times.

Serial killers often have prime stretches, and stop for periods of time. Ted Bundy for instance committed the bulk of his murders in 1974 and 1975, but its suspected he had others in earlier years. Its when serial killers go into so called crazy periods where they are killing with less time between murders that suspicion of a serial killer gets aroused and often leads to them getting caught. But they also often stop for periods of time and start back. Pretty sure Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer) did too.

That being said for the reasons others have stated, there is almost zero chance this is true. I think the Torso killer was in all probability Francis Sweeney. Though its not certain. And the Ripper murders were before he was born.

There is a book that suggested Jack the ripper and the killer for kingsbury run are the same person

Completely ridiculous. "Jack the Ripper" murdered prostitutes in England, in 1888.The Kingsbury Run murders occurred in the 1930's. Jack the Ripper was likely around 30 years of age when he killed in London, England. The Kingsbury Run murders occured nearly 50 years later, which would have made Jack the Ripper well into his 70s or even early 80s.

That being said for the reasons others have stated, there is almost zero chance this is true. I think the Torso killer was in all probability Francis Sweeney. Though its not certain. And the Ripper murders were before he was born.

From everything I have read over the years, I am convinced Frank Sweeney was behind the killings. Sweeney had failed a polygraph test, and there appearantly was enough evidence to charge him for the murders, but Elliot Ness did not feel he could get a convinction, especially since Sweeney was the first cousin of one of his main political rivals, Martin Sweeney, an Ohio member of Congress.

It's been said Ness and Sweeney worked out some kind of secret deal, to prevent his cousin from being implicated in the killings.

From everything I have read over the years, I am convinced Frank Sweeney was behind the killings. Sweeney had failed a polygraph test, and there appearantly was enough evidence to charge him for the murders, but Elliot Ness did not feel he could get a convinction, especially since Sweeney was the first cousin of one of his main political rivals, Martin Sweeney, an Ohio member of Congress.

It's been said Ness and Sweeney worked out some kind of secret deal, to prevent his cousin from being implicated in the killings.

Agreed.

I mean, apparently Sweeney spent most of the latter part of his life placing himself in and out of mental institutions to avoid the law when suspicion was cast on him. I can't envision any innocent man doing this. An innocent man would be going through hell to prove his innocence if he was accused of doing the things the Torso killer did. Instead he basically manipulated the mental health system and hid behind his family name to avoid prison and possibly the chair. Far more indicative of a guilty man to me.

Of course there is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely he did, I'd say its 70-30 at least. As you pointed out Ness apparently thought he couldn't get a conviction, so he did the next best thing by essentially psyching Sweeney into staying in mental institutions the rest of his life and keeping a shadow over him.

Ness did pretty well when you think about it. Going into this case his law enforcement experience was mostly tracking down gangsters, bootleggers, and other organized crime. Not to diminish that by any means, its no doubt hard and dangerous work. But serial killers are a different animal and law enforcement as a whole didn't really know how to track them at that time. One reason the Ripper was never caught. Ness realized his old tactics weren't gonna work and had to learn on the fly, and may well have done it. It was a psychological profile that led him to Sweeney in the first place, even if Sweeney wasn't the killer Ness may have helped lay the foundations for future profiling of serial killers. Not to shabby a career really, there was no shame in being unable to prove Sweeney's guilt not having access the tools in the 1930's available to law enforcement today. Its not easy even today, it took almost 40 years to catch EAR. With today's forensic technology Jack the Ripper and the Torso killer would probably have been caught. Possibly other famous murders like the Hinterkaifack murders would have been solved as well.

I read that Sweeney used to toy with Ness and do really bizarre things. In the 1930s Blacks and Whites did not socialize togethers, so when Ness and others would do surveillance on Sweeney, he would go to a rough area of town, and into a bar usually only patronized by Black people.

Sweeney would sit at one side to the bar, and the investigators would sit at the other side of the bar, while 50 or so Black patrons would not know what on Earth was going on. Sweeney also harassed Ness for over 20 years with mail and postcards after the case went cold. It's interesting to note at least a couple of the bodies were placed in full view of City Hall, and Ness thought the killer was trying to mock the Police.

But if he was never caught how is it not likely it was not jack the ripper

That’s specious reasoning. By that logic, since I can’t one hundred percent prove that you don’t regularly kick donkeys, then that proves you must regularly kick donkeys.

Or using your standards, I can make the case that Herbert Hoover was Jack the Ripper and later became the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run. I mean, sure he was born in America and would have been fifteen when Jack began killing, but it’s possible that he could have gotten to Whitechapel and killed prostitutes. And it’s possible that maybe he could have kept his killing urges in check, and become the Mad Butcher after he had done his stint as president (gotta keep busy during retirement), and since it’s conceivably possible, that makes my theory legitimate and worthy of discussion. Therefore, everyone else has to prove that Herbert Hoover isn’t Jack/the Mad Butcher.

FYI to anyone who needs this advice, don’t kick donkeys. They are big, smart as hell, and kicking them will end far more badly for you than it will for them.

For the record, whatever flaws USA’s 31st President may have had, I don’t think that he was either Jack or the Mad Butcher.

FYI to anyone who needs this advice, don’t kick donkeys. They are big, smart as hell, and kicking them will end far more badly for you than it will for them.

For the record, whatever flaws USA’s 31st President may have had, I don’t think that he was either Jack or the Mad Butcher.

:lol: :clap:

Bravo! Take a bow... That was an awesome post, and the ending is the best part. The mix of logic and humor was brilliant. Well done!

But if he was never caught how is it not likely it was not jack the ripper

Ok.....you HAVE to be trolling, at this point...

I'll nominate Bob Feller to be the Cleveland Torso Murderer. Because we KNOW he was in Cleveland at the time, and he was never caught, so....how is it not likely it wasn't Bob Feller?

Ok.....you HAVE to be trolling, at this point...

I'll nominate Bob Feller to be the Cleveland Torso Murderer. Because we KNOW he was in Cleveland at the time, and he was never caught, so....how is it not likely it wasn't Bob Feller?

That would be my guess. Jack The Ripper was an English serial killer, so his accent would have stood out. Most important, the crimes of Jack The Ripper occurred nearly 50 years before the Cleveland Torso murders, so if Jack the Ripper was even alive, he would have been in his late 70s or 80s at the time.