If I have my facts straight, NBC felt that there was still some life left in the show. It was still comfortably winning its timeslot (I think that it was on Saturday nights at this point (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_United_States_network_television_schedule#Saturday)). But the plans for 10th season went into disarray when Mindy Cohn and Nancy McKeon said that they were going to leave the show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5QrR8plESM&list=PL148440142BCDE01C) at the end of the ninth season.

But the final episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOzKAr5T9xE) clearly felt like a sign that the show was going to revamp itself. The last episode involves Blair buying Eastland to prevent it from closing. She soon decides to make Eastland co-ed with Blair becoming the headmistress (in essence, the Mrs. Garrett role). Why didn't NBC go that route if they wanted TFOL to keep going?

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Because it didn't make sense for the cast to stay together that far into adulthood, the only thing that was keeping them together was plot, and it was clear that the characters and actors wanted to go their separate ways.

Honestly, I think the show should have ended at season 8.

The spin-off attempt in the series finale was a sleazy way to keep the show going. I found it a little incomprehensible that Blair would want to save Eastland, and didn't feel like the show had enough glue (or steam) to go on for another season. The show kept jumping the shark when they kept adding younger actors to keep it youthful, and I feel like the spin-off was paper-thin and would not have worked because there weren't enough strong actors involved to keep audiences interested.

Mindy and Nancy wanted out.

Mindy and Nancy wanted out.

The original poster points that out, though. He's asking why they didn't concentrate on "re-tooling" the show to center on Blair being "the Mrs. Garrett" of the new Eastland.

The original poster points that out, though. He's asking why they didn't concentrate on "re-tooling" the show to center on Blair being "the Mrs. Garrett" of the new Eastland.

A second retooling? Even third if you count the transition from girls school to girls running a business

NBC was the #1 network at the time. They didn’t have as many gaps to fill on their schedule, and they didn’t need a retooling of a tired show. Had the show been on a network that was struggling, the spinoff might have sold.

Also, NBC was a different network than it had been when “Facts” started. They were moving away from the kid-oriented sitcoms of the early 80s, and were going for more adult-oriented and/or sophisticated sitcoms (“Cheers”, “Night Court”, “Golden Girls”, etc.). FOL was off-brand for NBC at that point (same reason NBC let “Hogan Family” go to CBS a couple of seasons later).

It didn’t help that the pilot for the new series (the two-part season finale) was pretty bad. Not a bad concept, but the execution was terrible. Irma Kalish was the worst thing to happen to FOL. They should have brought Linda Marsh and Margie Peters back to do the pilot.

A second retooling? Even third if you count the transition from girls school to girls running a business

I think it's more like a 5th retooling. :lol: :crazy:

It didn’t help that the pilot for the new series (the two-part season finale) was pretty bad. Not a bad concept, but the execution was terrible. Irma Kalish was the worst thing to happen to FOL. They should have brought Linda Marsh and Margie Peters back to do the pilot.

I don't think I'll really watch the finale anymore. I am absolutely against the idea of wealthy, privileged Blair Warner "losing all of her money" by investing every cent of hers into the school. No thanks, not in my faniverse. :nonono:

I think it's more like a 5th retooling. :lol: :crazy:

Only five retoolings? I count seven.

Kim says the first retooling happened after the fourth episode, when Miss Mahoney said farewell, and Nancy got an invisible boyfriend.

The second retooling occurred at the beginning of Season Two, with the horrible Cast Purge and the move into the cafeteria.

The third retooling happened near the beginning of Season Five, with the girls moving in above Edna's Edibles, and the brief cast addition of Kelly.

The fourth retooling happened with the burning down of Edna's Edibles and the creation of the 1980s kitsch shop, and the cast addition of George Clooney.

The fifth retooling occurred when Mrs. G left the show and Beverly Ann was added.

The sixth retooling was the addition of Pippa and the closure of the kitsch store.

The seventh retooling would have been Blair becoming Mrs. Garrett 2.0 at Eastland.

Only five retoolings? I count seven.

Kim says the first retooling happened after the fourth episode, when Miss Mahoney said farewell, and Nancy got an invisible boyfriend.

The second retooling occurred at the beginning of Season Two, with the horrible Cast Purge and the move into the cafeteria.

The third retooling happened near the beginning of Season Five, with the girls moving in above Edna's Edibles, and the brief cast addition of Kelly.

The fourth retooling happened with the burning down of Edna's Edibles and the creation of the 1980s kitsch shop, and the cast addition of George Clooney.

The fifth retooling occurred when Mrs. G left the show and Beverly Ann was added.

The sixth retooling was the addition of Pippa and the closure of the kitsch store.

The seventh retooling would have been Blair becoming Mrs. Garrett 2.0 at Eastland.

Well, to me, 6 is kinda marginal though I can see what you mean, and 7 is just the last 2 episodes.

I'm actually glad it didn't get a tenth season b/c I'm about halfway into Season 7 and I'm getting bored with the show. Sorry to be a downer but it's just not the same and it really hasn't gotten a whole lot better since Season 1 but I'm going to watch them all and clear out my DVR. I was surprised that it ran for nine seasons to be honest. The show as a whole was okay and there were some good actors but for the most part it's been a disappointment.

NBC was the #1 network at the time. They didn’t have as many gaps to fill on their schedule, and they didn’t need a retooling of a tired show. Had the show been on a network that was struggling, the spinoff might have sold.

Also, NBC was a different network than it had been when “Facts” started. They were moving away from the kid-oriented sitcoms of the early 80s, and were going for more adult-oriented and/or sophisticated sitcoms (“Cheers”, “Night Court”, “Golden Girls”, etc.). FOL was off-brand for NBC at that point (same reason NBC let “Hogan Family” go to CBS a couple of seasons later).

It didn’t help that the pilot for the new series (the two-part season finale) was pretty bad. Not a bad concept, but the execution was terrible. Irma Kalish was the worst thing to happen to FOL. They should have brought Linda Marsh and Margie Peters back to do the pilot.

I just came her to ask if TFOL really started going down the cliff creatively when Irma Kalish became the showrunner. When Paul Haggins was the showrunner prior to this, the show still felt like an an ensemble. But during the last two seasons (AKA the "Beverly Ann years" with Cloris Leachman), they began to focus on one character at a time per episode, instead of the whole gang. They also expanded Mackenzie Astin's role by having Beverly Ann adopt Andy.

Kalsih also introduced the decidedly unnecessary Pippa and had her spout things, "Good day, mates, I think I'll walk to school this morning so I can do a bit of spunk spotting." To top it all off, they began to really recycled plots from episodes that had just aired! For instance, Jo's dad meets her fiance, and they don't get along (at first). Natalie and Tootie's boyfriends meet, and they don't get along (at first). Tootie meets Jeff's grandmother, and they don't get along (at first), etc.

they began to focus on one character at a time per episode, instead of the whole gang.


It had been like that the whole run, not just the last two years. Look at the Eastland years. There are a ton of Jo centered episodes than episodes that focus on the whole gang. I don't think season 8 did anything different than seasons 2 - 4 with the episodes produce. Well, less serious topics but it worked for season 8 IMO.

I think the "classic cafeteria years" have the most of an ensemble feel because it's often our small group of girls all in the same space (the cafeteria, the kitchen, the lounge, the bedroom). And because there are only 4 of them, even when an episode does center around one character, the other few girls are often around and still have plenty of lines. There's no "Nancying" of characters (season 1's Nancy being often left out, etc.), there's no Langley to go to, no downtown Peekskill right outside the door to run of to, etc. So Eastland in seasons 2-4 feel more ensemble-ish to me.

I think the "classic cafeteria years" have the most of an ensemble feel because it's often our small group of girls all in the same space (the cafeteria, the kitchen, the lounge, the bedroom). And because there are only 4 of them, even when an episode does center around one character, the other few girls are often around and still have plenty of lines. There's no "Nancying" of characters (season 1's Nancy being often left out, etc.), there's no Langley to go to, no downtown Peekskill right outside the door to run of to, etc. So Eastland in seasons 2-4 feel more ensemble-ish to me.


That's weird saying that because there's quite a bit of episodes where they take place outside of Eastland. They're either in New York, the boys Academy, a relatives, or the one episode where they're at Jo's work. They're not always in the same space.


I don't feel any of the girls were short lines or stories in season 8. There's 2 episodes in season 8 where the girls are not the main focus; "Boy About The House" and "Ex Marks The Spot". Out of 24 episodes, I don't think it's horrible to have 2 episodes feature the supporting characters of the show. It's a lot better than what they did in the earlier seasons on those spin off attempts that hardly featured any of the original characters.

That's weird saying that because there's quite a bit of episodes where they take place outside of Eastland. They're either in New York, the boys Academy, a relatives, or the one episode where they're at Jo's work.

Well a handful were in NY, 2 were at that boring academy, a handful were at relatives', only 1 was at Jo's work. Out of 64 shows, I would say the majority were easily still at "home base" so to speak. It's so cozy to have that home base. :) Having grown up with the show in my formative years, that feeling of being in the Eastland cafeteria building is so overwhelming with my feelings of "Facts".


They're not always in the same space.

True, but having only 4 girls makes that a much easier situation than having 7 girls.


I don't feel any of the girls were short lines or stories in season 8. There's 2 episodes in season 8 where the girls are not the main focus; "Boy About The House" and "Ex Marks The Spot". Out of 24 episodes, I don't think it's horrible to have 2 episodes feature the supporting characters of the show. It's a lot better than what they did in the earlier seasons on those spin off attempts that hardly featured any of the original characters.

Well, I really like "Brian and Sylvia" and "Jo's Cousin". They're probably the spin-offs that feature the girls the most (except for "Big Apple Blues" [which I also really like as well, lol], which has Natalie throughout the entire show).

I'm actually glad it didn't get a tenth season b/c I'm about halfway into Season 7 and I'm getting bored with the show. Sorry to be a downer but it's just not the same and it really hasn't gotten a whole lot better since Season 1 but I'm going to watch them all and clear out my DVR. I was surprised that it ran for nine seasons to be honest. The show as a whole was okay and there were some good actors but for the most part it's been a disappointment.

It was definitely getting tired. But Beverly Ann gives the show new life IMO.

I just came her to ask if TFOL really started going down the cliff creatively when Irma Kalish became the showrunner. When Paul Haggins was the showrunner prior to this, the show still felt like an an ensemble. But during the last two seasons (AKA the "Beverly Ann years" with Cloris Leachman), they began to focus on one character at a time per episode, instead of the whole gang. They also expanded Mackenzie Astin's role by having Beverly Ann adopt Andy.

Kalsih also introduced the decidedly unnecessary Pippa and had her spout things, "Good day, mates, I think I'll walk to school this morning so I can do a bit of spunk spotting." To top it all off, they began to really recycled plots from episodes that had just aired! For instance, Jo's dad meets her fiance, and they don't get along (at first). Natalie and Tootie's boyfriends meet, and they don't get along (at first). Tootie meets Jeff's grandmother, and they don't get along (at first), etc.

:lol: Good points!

I think the show was just running out of steam. There were only so many times the show could be re-invented.

NBC was the #1 network at the time. They didn’t have as many gaps to fill on their schedule, and they didn’t need a retooling of a tired show. Had the show been on a network that was struggling, the spinoff might have sold.

Also, NBC was a different network than it had been when “Facts” started. They were moving away from the kid-oriented sitcoms of the early 80s, and were going for more adult-oriented and/or sophisticated sitcoms (“Cheers”, “Night Court”, “Golden Girls”, etc.). FOL was off-brand for NBC at that point (same reason NBC let “Hogan Family” go to CBS a couple of seasons later).

It didn’t help that the pilot for the new series (the two-part season finale) was pretty bad. Not a bad concept, but the execution was terrible. Irma Kalish was the worst thing to happen to FOL. They should have brought Linda Marsh and Margie Peters back to do the pilot.

I never really thought about it that way, but come to think about it, NBC did have a lot of kid or adolescent oriented sitcoms" during the '80s. Not just TFOF, but Silver Spoons, Diff'rent Strokes, Punky Brewster, ALF, Double Trouble, It's Your Move, Saved by the Bell (it debuted in '89), etc.

Also, they were putting themselves at risk for having one reinvention too many on TFOL. I mean how many times did that show retool itself already:
The first retool was when they dropped four of the girls and brought in Jo as their replacement.

The second retool was when Edna's Edibles replaced Eastland as the main setting.

The third retool was when Edna's Edibles burned down and was replaced by Over Our Heads. You can argue that this was really the second big retool since this coincided with the update of the theme song.

The fourth retool was when Cloris Leachman came in after Charlotte Rae left as the "star"/older female of the cast.

The first retool was when they dropped four of the girls and brought in Jo as their replacement.

According to Kim Fields' book, that was actually the second retool. The first happened after the first four episodes: the series went on a three-month hiatus, and when it came back the following year, Miss Mahoney/Jenny O'Hara was suddenly gone, the grandfather clock had changed, and Nancy/Felice was only given a few lines per episode, as the producers focused more and more on Blair, Tootie, and Sue Ann.

The next retooling was far more drastic, with the culling of 50% of the cast and the change of venue, so people tend to not notice that there had already been a retooling.

When I asked this question elsewhere, one response that I received was that a show like TFOL wouldn't have translated too well going into the '90s. What I mean is that the show was really product of yuppie era--which was ending. And more than likely, 1990s viewers weren't going to be interested about a private boarding school. It's awfully coincidental that other shows that were indistinguishably a part of the '80s like Miami Vice, Family Ties, and Dynasty over at ABC ended their runs just as the decade was coming to an end.

When I asked this question elsewhere, one response that I received was that a show like TFOL wouldn't have translated too well going into the '90s. What I mean is that the show was really product of yuppie era--which was ending. And more than likely, 1990s viewers weren't going to be interested about a private boarding school. It's awfully coincidental that other shows that were indistinguishably a part of the '80s like Miami Vice, Family Ties, and Dynasty over at ABC ended their runs just as the decade was coming to an end.

Mindy says in 1 of the documentaries that the show wouldn't have worked in the '70s, and it wouldn't have worked in the '90s. But really, isn't that true of most TV shows; that they fit best with the time they were in production? I mean it makes sense, TV is "with the times".

Lot's of great replies. I think there was already a giant saturation of young teen comedies and dramedies by the time FOL was ending. One thing that might have happened had it continued with Blair would have been the eventual "dropping" of her character as the show further developed story lines around the teens and their characters. It's a familiar pattern where the adults eventually fade into the background before disappearing altogether.

Lot's of great replies. I think there was already a giant saturation of young teen comedies and dramedies by the time FOL was ending. One thing that might have happened had it continued with Blair would have been the eventual "dropping" of her character as the show further developed story lines around the teens and their characters. It's a familiar pattern where the adults eventually fade into the background before disappearing altogether.

We certainly saw that with Good Morning Miss Bliss/Saved By the Bell and Head of the Class. We even saw that, to some extent, with The Facts of Life, with Mrs. Garrett becoming less integral to the show with each passing season. This makes me like the show less and less each year, as the show abandons its roots.

We even saw that, to some extent, with The Facts of Life, with Mrs. Garrett becoming less integral to the show with each passing season.

Eek! That's a sad way of looking at it. I don't think of it that way. I still think of her as quite integral throughout the Eastland years, and in season 5, since there were so many EE stories.

Eek! That's a sad way of looking at it. I don't think of it that way. I still think of her as quite integral throughout the Eastland years, and in season 5, since there were so many EE stories.

She absolutely was integral in Season Five, though she never even had a bedroom there. Maybe no longer the real star, but definitely still integral to the show. And Season Six, I'd argue, too, although she appeared in fewer episodes.

Season 7, though? It didn't feel like her store anymore, she often wasn't there, they never showed her room, and she had very few plots that revolved around her. "We Get Letters", one of her few episodes, was odd. And then she was gone.

I just came her to ask if TFOL really started going down the cliff creatively when Irma Kalish became the showrunner. When Paul Haggins was the showrunner prior to this, the show still felt like an an ensemble. But during the last two seasons (AKA the "Beverly Ann years" with Cloris Leachman), they began to focus on one character at a time per episode, instead of the whole gang. They also expanded Mackenzie Astin's role by having Beverly Ann adopt Andy.

Kalsih also introduced the decidedly unnecessary Pippa and had her spout things, "Good day, mates, I think I'll walk to school this morning so I can do a bit of spunk spotting." To top it all off, they began to really recycled plots from episodes that had just aired! For instance, Jo's dad meets her fiance, and they don't get along (at first). Natalie and Tootie's boyfriends meet, and they don't get along (at first). Tootie meets Jeff's grandmother, and they don't get along (at first), etc.

I wonder if Ms. Kalish introduced Pippa solely to have at least one original character on the series for which she would receive royalties for. The same thing actually happened on Hill Street Blues, when David Milch replaced Steven Bochco as executive producer. When Milch took the reins, original cast members Rene Enriquez, Barbara Bosson, and Ed Marinaro all left and were replaced by Robert Clohessy and Megan Gallagher. Also when Patricia Green replaced David E. Kelley as executive producer of L.A. Law, original cast members Harry Hamlin, Michele Greene, and Jimmy Smits all left and were all replaced by Sheila Kelley, Amanda Donohoe, John Spencer, and Cecil Hoffman.

I read that they canceled the show b/c Mindy Coehn and Nancy McKeon asked to leave the series but in all honesty I think it could have continued one more season with the other cast members. Probably wouldn't have lasted more than one season, though.

I feel like the spin-off was paper-thin and would not have worked because there weren't enough strong actors involved to keep audiences interested.

While I'm glad the spinoff didn't happen,I must disagree with your last comment. Juliette Lewis, Seth Green and Mayim Bialik is actually a "score" for before they were stars on one show and they all went onto bigger and better things

We certainly saw that with Good Morning Miss Bliss/Saved By the Bell and Head of the Class. We even saw that, to some extent, with The Facts of Life, with Mrs. Garrett becoming less integral to the show with each passing season. This makes me like the show less and less each year, as the show abandons its roots.

That was ultimately Charlotte's choosing. She's the one who requested less episodes in season 6 and 7. I think she could've stayed longer than she did but it was her who felt like the torch was being passed on to the girls and she didn't need to be there as much as before

I was OK with the latter half of season 7 when Mrs. Garrett wasn’t there and it was just the four girls (plus Andy and George). It felt like a natural evolution. Bringing in Beverly Ann was not necessary. Plus, Irma Kalish came in and didn’t understand the show.