What are the cases from UM that you watch today and are just shocked that they haven't been solved?

There are some of them that don't overly surprise me that they haven't been solved.. Some that there's just not enough info likely.. There was a WWII "Lost Loves" case that some soldier gave a boy some food and an American flag.. Not overly surprised that hasn't been solved, because it was 40 years on, and no names were involved.

But, the ones that haven't been solved that it just seems.. Should have been.

Cases like AJ Breaux. The Dub and Chase Wackerhagen case.. Seems that SOME information on those cases should have come to light. The prison guard who was exposing corruption in California who disappeared.. That's another one.

Oh.. And the Katherine Korzilius case.

I feel the prison officer likely ran into a sex attacker/killer totally unrelated to her work at the jail.

There are some of them that don't overly surprise me that they haven't been solved.. Some that there's just not enough info likely.. There was a WWII "Lost Loves" case that some soldier gave a boy some food and an American flag.. Not overly surprised that hasn't been solved, because it was 40 years on, and no names were involved.



Actually, this one was solved. He found the soldier's family:
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/The_Friend_of_Stephan_Ross

:)

Jenny Pratt

Jeremy Bright

So many people know what happened in both cases it's ridiculous they're both still unsolved.

Jenny Pratt

Jeremy Bright

So many people know what happened in both cases it's ridiculous they're both still unsolved.

Jenny Pratt is a good one. There is a poster or two that has said "everyone" in their hometown knows who did it.

Phillip Fraser is another one for me. The murderer seemed to be very lucky not to be caught.

Actually, this one was solved. He found the soldier's family:
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/The_Friend_of_Stephan_Ross

:)

woah I did not know that...or at least I don't remember knowing it :)

some of the older lost loves are very difficult to solve. I always wonder who the other soldiers were that ate Christmas dinner with Fritz in Belgium. It's amazing that he found one of them and got to reunite.

Edit: forgot to add the most obvious one for me. Mark and Christy Nichols. Every single time I watch that segment he looks more guilty than the last time I watched it.

What are the cases from UM that you watch today and are just shocked that they haven't been solved?

There are some of them that don't overly surprise me that they haven't been solved.. Some that there's just not enough info likely.. There was a WWII "Lost Loves" case that some soldier gave a boy some food and an American flag.. Not overly surprised that hasn't been solved, because it was 40 years on, and no names were involved.

But, the ones that haven't been solved that it just seems.. Should have been.

Cases like AJ Breaux. The Dub and Chase Wackerhagen case.. Seems that SOME information on those cases should have come to light. The prison guard who was exposing corruption in California who disappeared.. That's another one.

Oh.. And the Katherine Korzilius case.

Well, as some have pointed out, the soldier giving the boy the flag was solved.

Korzilius - if this truly was an accident, as some have hypothesized, I don't see how this could be "solved."

My immediate kneejerk reaction to this thread was to think of Jenny Pratt. It just seems like a lot of people knew who the guy was that swung the board, by name, but no one ever stepped forward to identify him to the police. Further, the perps were teenagers/young adults who don't have the greatest propensity for keeping their mouths shut in general, so I find it surprising that no one talked. On the other hand, the only people who probably could have testified that they saw the guy do it were likely in the truck and possibly afraid of being charged in the crime themselves. If those present in the truck relayed the story to others (as I suspect) then whatever they said would be hearsay. So, that could be how the dude's name got around so much (Hell, I even know it), but there was never enough evidence to charge. It seems the guy committed suicide years later, so that could also explain why no one ever came forward. Just no need to at that point.

I find it surprising that Leonard Rizzo was never charged in connection with the murder of his wife, Monica, whose remains were found in the backyard. It's like what more do they need?

Jenny Pratt is a good one. There is a poster or two that has said "everyone" in their hometown knows who did it.

The 'everyone in their hometown knows who did it' argument seems to be usable in the Tara Calico case too.

I'm currently getting caught up on the 'Missing Tara Calico' podcasts by Melinda Esquibel and it seems pretty obvious that those teenage boys (at the time) are indeed responsible.

Actually, this one was solved. He found the soldier's family:
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/The_Friend_of_Stephan_Ross

:)

Huh.. So it was.. I'm surprised it was. I actually watched the UM with that the other day.. Obviously the update happened after the episodes were reedited and that hasn't been added. There was just so little to go on there.

One more that I thought of.. The Mary Morris killings in Houston. To have neither of them solved is very odd. Quite frankly, the husband, I don't really buy as a killer. He brought a lawyer to a police interview.. Some would call that smart, especially after the police basically ran with him being a suspect.. Refused a polygraph.. She had life insurance. The 4 minute phone call.. That is strange, but I don't buy him as the killer, and probably not even as having paid someone to do it.

If the cases were connected and this was a hitman that killed the wrong person.. SOMEONE would have talked.

I'd love to know what the 911 call contains.

I'll put another one out there.. One of the web cases.. I was personally involved in this one.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Lori_Reaves_Richardson

Read the found post on the Facebook page, it has the story from their side and my side in the comments. Utterly ridiculous that case wasn't solved long, long ago.

The 'everyone in their hometown knows who did it' argument seems to be usable in the Tara Calico case too.

I'm currently getting caught up on the 'Missing Tara Calico' podcasts by Melinda Esquibel and it seems pretty obvious that those teenage boys (at the time) are indeed responsible.

did not know that. thanks for posting.

I am surprised Chaim Weiss case has not been solved or at the very least they should atleast have a strong suspect in mind.

Brad Bishop

I am surprised Chaim Weiss case has not been solved or at the very least they should atleast have a strong suspect in mind.

I agree.. Very good example there. The principal would be high on my list of suspects..

https://pix11.com/2017/11/21/exclusive-dad-of-15-year-old-killed-in-li-yeshiva-dorm-haunted-by-mysterious-events-leading-up-to-1986-murder/

Irene Love and her sister Dolores Ford. Irene knew so many details she should have been able to find SOMETHING.

Wiki says that she did find her mother, but her father and sister passed away before the story aired on UM.. 1988 for the father and 1991 for her sister.

Irene passed in 2012.

What is the story.. There was a case where a guy was going to buy a computer and was kidnapped at a motel or something.. Not the sketch artist case (Which is another that i'll put as astounded it hasn't been solved, UM touted her as the best sketch artist and how many cases she solved and the case they profiled.. Unsolved.) where the two guys in a mall got the brothers who jumped out..

Wiki says that she did find her mother, but her father and sister passed away before the story aired on UM.. 1988 for the father and 1991 for her sister.

Irene passed in 2012.

What is the story.. There was a case where a guy was going to buy a computer and was kidnapped at a motel or something.. Not the sketch artist case (Which is another that i'll put as astounded it hasn't been solved, UM touted her as the best sketch artist and how many cases she solved and the case they profiled.. Unsolved.) where the two guys in a mall got the brothers who jumped out..

The computer case was somebody calling themselves Tom Johnson who murdered the woman & seriously injured the guy selling the computer who later died in a traffic accident-the common consensus here & the Unsolved Wiki page even says it now is that it was almost certainly Tom Steeples-a violent murderer who later killed himself in jail.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Tom_Johnson

The other case was this one-

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Jason_and_Phillip_Bomer

Phillip Fraser is another one for me. The murderer seemed to be very lucky not to be caught.

I watched this (for the first time ever, I don't know how I missed it) and I was absolutely stunned when there was no update - the apparent murderer was young, disorganized, distinctive in appearance, likely crossed the border and hung around an area where there was a very small population. Even in the late 80s, you think he would have left enough of a trail to lead to his arrest.

I watched this (for the first time ever, I don't know how I missed it) and I was absolutely stunned when there was no update - the apparent murderer was young, disorganized, distinctive in appearance, likely crossed the border and hung around an area where there was a very small population. Even in the late 80s, you think he would have left enough of a trail to lead to his arrest.

Less surprised at that one as the McAllister and Major murders in Ontario. The one where the couple was sleeping in their RV.

The two that bug me the most are Patsy Wright and Gloria Schulze.

Patsy Wright's killer had to know her well to know that she took cold medicine before bed, and had access to strychnine. How hard can it be to narrow that down?

Gloria Schulze has eluded detection for a very long time, I just don't get that at all.

The two that bug me the most are Patsy Wright and Gloria Schulze.

Patsy Wright's killer had to know her well to know that she took cold medicine before bed, and had access to strychnine. How hard can it be to narrow that down?

Gloria Schulze has eluded detection for a very long time, I just don't get that at all.

I wish there was more info on the patsy wright murder. I’m baffled by how little info is out there and how quiet that is now considering it was featured on UM.

I wish there was more info on the patsy wright murder. I’m baffled by how little info is out there and how quiet that is now considering it was featured on UM.

Is it me or is it kinda creepy that her family has apparently created a Facebook page for her as if she were still alive?

https://www.facebook.com/patsy.boltonwright

Anyway.. Everyone has dismissed the suicide angle on this one.. And I can't come up with a reason she would want to commit suicide, but.. This quote..

“I’ve taken some NyQuil and something’s really, really wrong,”

Strychnine poisoning normally takes 10 to 20 minutes to start affecting someone, with death not occurring until 2 to 3 hours later. If you had unusual symptoms starting where you weren't feeling well and you normally took Nyquil to help you sleep and never had any kind of reaction to it before.. Would your mind think back to the Nyquil?

She was dead at 4:15am.. So, Figure she took the dose between 1am and 2am. She made the call to friends, not to 911, at 3am.

Leo Fikes had access to the strychnine.. I don't think he did it, but I think he had to have been involved somehow.

Is it me or is it kinda creepy that her family has apparently created a Facebook page for her as if she were still alive?

https://www.facebook.com/patsy.boltonwright

Anyway.. Everyone has dismissed the suicide angle on this one.. And I can't come up with a reason she would want to commit suicide, but.. This quote..



Strychnine poisoning normally takes 10 to 20 minutes to start affecting someone, with death not occurring until 2 to 3 hours later. If you had unusual symptoms starting where you weren't feeling well and you normally took Nyquil to help you sleep and never had any kind of reaction to it before.. Would your mind think back to the Nyquil?

She was dead at 4:15am.. So, Figure she took the dose between 1am and 2am. She made the call to friends, not to 911, at 3am.

Leo Fikes had access to the strychnine.. I don't think he did it, but I think he had to have been involved somehow.

I think it was discussed before (suicide) I can't recall if it was in the segment or not. suicide by strychnine does not seem to be a popular theory though. I don't recall the timelines, but it is possible that it did occur that way and she was not able to call within the first hour.

So I watched the miracle staircase segment again. Still one of my favorites and on my bucket list to visit along with Marfa. definitely an UM that should have been solved.

So I watched the miracle staircase segment again. Still one of my favorites and on my bucket list to visit along with Marfa. definitely an UM that should have been solved.

I think you can throw that segment in the "special circumstances," pile. Because the guy that came forward claiming his grandfather built it seemed to have compelling evidence that it was him. But the nuns chose not to believe him.

They didn't exactly strike me as people who wanted this particular mystery to be solved.

I think you can throw that segment in the "special circumstances," pile. Because the guy that came forward claiming his grandfather built it seemed to have compelling evidence that it was him. But the nuns chose not to believe him.

They didn't exactly strike me as people who wanted this particular mystery to be solved.
true, they wanted a stairway to heaven as the song says. I also thought the evidence was compelling that a migrant likely built the staircase. I hope to go see it one day!

I have a few of them, the one that I thought could be solved
circleville writer. I know they arrested one person, but for real?

The Wackers - case is anther one

I can't remember the name of this gal, but she had a mental illness, and got stuck in the mud, had a mental breakdown. One night after leaving work she drove around, got stuck, and ever since was missing

I can't remember the name of this gal, but she had a mental illness, and got stuck in the mud, had a mental breakdown. One night after leaving work she drove around, got stuck, and ever since was missing
I believe you are referring to Kristi Krebs. Such a sad story all around and I am shocked to find out to this today no trace of her was ever found.

I have a few of them, the one that I thought could be solved
circleville writer. I know they arrested one person, but for real?

The Wackers - case is anther one

I can't remember the name of this gal, but she had a mental illness, and got stuck in the mud, had a mental breakdown. One night after leaving work she drove around, got stuck, and ever since was missing

Good ones. I'm with you on the Circleville writer. That's astounding they couldn't catch that person. I mean, the person even sent letters to UM.

Kristi Krebs.. Yeah, strange that no trace has been found. Pending on whether you believe it was her the cop gave a ride to. My feeling.. Cop was mistaken on who it was, it likely wasn't her, and she died of exposure/dehydration/starvation somewhere in the Jackson State Forest where her body remains to this day. I think somewhere, sometime in the future, someone finds a skull out there and this one is solved.

The Wackers.. Ok.. this probably won't be a popular thought.. But I wonder if they were doing this themselves. Noone EVER saw any evidence of this from what I recall.. An no motive was ever discovered as to why they would be harassed. This one just.. I WANT to believe them because they seem like such nice people.. Perhaps that's why a closer look should have been taken at them. And.. I'd be curious to know whether or not the harassment continued after Bill's death.

Good ones. I'm with you on the Circleville writer. That's astounding they couldn't catch that person. I mean, the person even sent letters to UM.

Kristi Krebs.. Yeah, strange that no trace has been found. Pending on whether you believe it was her the cop gave a ride to. My feeling.. Cop was mistaken on who it was, it likely wasn't her, and she died of exposure/dehydration/starvation somewhere in the Jackson State Forest where her body remains to this day. I think somewhere, sometime in the future, someone finds a skull out there and this one is solved.

The Wackers.. Ok.. this probably won't be a popular thought.. But I wonder if they were doing this themselves. Noone EVER saw any evidence of this from what I recall.. An no motive was ever discovered as to why they would be harassed. This one just.. I WANT to believe them because they seem like such nice people.. Perhaps that's why a closer look should have been taken at them. And.. I'd be curious to know whether or not the harassment continued after Bill's death.


I 100 percent agree with you on them doing it to themselves. When did it end if ever? There are so many questions. Like the day the old lady lets a random person in to make a call. If someone was stalking you, you are an old lady alone, you let an unknown man into your house? And the "i was not listening"
Did the police ever check the telephone logs, check to see if a call was made, and to whom? Seems like it should be solved. The police never seemed to take their reports that seriously.

There are 3 that I have thought they would solve and have not been...

1. The Mary Morris murders (because I doubt they were random)
2. The Eric Yamiyasu murder (I actually don't think any of the 3 guys did it...I suspect it's Diane's ex at the time. I think he was the one outside the house on the night of the date)
3. Can't remember her name but the woman who was looking for her music teacher that helped her out when she was a child.

A year ago, this thread would have had the Golden State Killer and the killer of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg, and the case of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman as unsolved, but here we are a year later and all three of those cases are solved. So who knows, maybe some of these cases will be solved next year.

A year ago, this thread would have had the Golden State Killer and the killer of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg, and the case of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman as unsolved, but here we are a year later and all three of those cases are solved. So who knows, maybe some of these cases will be solved next year.

In all honesty GDAWG I thought they'd NEVER catch the EAR / ONS.

In all honesty GDAWG I thought they'd NEVER catch the EAR / ONS.

Neither did I. And a comment from Paul Holes about the moment that DeAngelo was arrested was interesting when he said that DeAngelo's reaction was more surprised he got caught rather than "I am innocent."

The "Cowboy" bank robber. Was real surprised not to see an update on that one, the FBI is usually pretty relentless on catching bank robbers.

The "Cowboy" bank robber. Was real surprised not to see an update on that one, the FBI is usually pretty relentless on catching bank robbers.

I kinda wonder if that one was solved or something and we can't find any info on it, because there are a ton of people who have been branded "Cowboy Bank robber".. Including a woman in Texas who was branded "Cowboy Bob"

the FBI is usually pretty relentless

yes they are

Marlene Santana, provided she was well-cared for and grew into a healthy adult.

Randall Utterback

It's not like the guy is Jason Bourne.

Some of these lost loves cases should have been solved:

https://unsolved.com/multi-gallery/?tag=lost-loves

Marlene Santana, provided she was well-cared for and grew into a healthy adult.

tough one. I'd certainly assume she is still alive most likely, but she would know nothing, just that she was adopted. Even her adoptive parents might not know anything about the circumstances of her abduction or that she was abducted.

This one has a good shot of being solved. I would presume her parents have submitted DNA and many adoptees will go through 23andme or similar as well.. So, there's hope on this. She'd only be 33 now.

Randall Utterback

It's not like the guy is Jason Bourne.

Family with money. I'd say they've shipped him off somewhere to lead a low-lying life. Which.. I agree, still surprising he hasn't been caught as you hear these stories of some vacationers bumping into someone on a Mexican beach or similar.

I honestly can't remember the guy's name, seems like it might have been Jim Baumgardner or something like that but I can't remember.


Anyway, the case was about a guy who apparently had a doppleganger somewhere nearby and began to suspect he might have a twin. Several people sighted this guy and were fooled by them, there was even an instance where he apparently missed him by a few minutes in the same store. And once he was even on the opposing softball team to one of his friends.


I can't imagine how nobody could figure out who this guy was. Did they interview any of the players on the opposing team that were with him? And it looks to me like this guy would have eventually come forward to say dude I'm not Jim! Please leave me alone after so many encounters.


Can't imagine how this wasn't solved, makes me think there had to be more to that case.

ICan't imagine how this wasn't solved, makes me think there had to be more to that case.

I get why people are skeptical about this case, but his wife was told by his grandmother that he had a twin brother. And he did reunite with his sister after the broadcast. So he did have a lost family out there.

I tend to think the presentation of the segment by UM confused a ton of people (me included). The softball game happened, then 5 years later was when Jim's dad ran into his doppelganger. 2 years later was when Jim and his wife went to the convenience store and had the odd encounter there with the clerk. So I think it was a culmination of occurrences that led to his wife asking the grandmother about the twin. By the time they had put everything together, his brother-in-law's memory faded and could have forgot the opposing company he was playing against.

Oh, let me throw one out here that was NOT on Unsolved Mysteries, but still.. How has this not been solved?

the Kyron Hormon case in the northwest. Ponderous, man.. Effing ponderous that hasn't been solved.

Randall Utterback

It's not like the guy is Jason Bourne.

No he's just a nerdy possessive boyfriend!

I have a few of them, the one that I thought could be solved
circleville writer. I know they arrested one person, but for real?

The Wackers - case is anther one

I can't remember the name of this gal, but she had a mental illness, and got stuck in the mud, had a mental breakdown. One night after leaving work she drove around, got stuck, and ever since was missing

I agree on the Circleville writer, but I've always thought that entire investigation was pure incompetence on the part of the longtime former sheriff and his department. Even in the face of contrary evidence, Radcliffe was too stubborn to admit he could have been wrong. His son now is sheriff. Even if it could be solved, I don't think it will.
Patricia Meehan is another one, although she might very well have wandered off into the wilderness like Dan Wilson and died from exposure.

I agree on the Circleville writer, but I've always thought that entire investigation was pure incompetence on the part of the longtime former sheriff and his department. Even in the face of contrary evidence, Radcliffe was too stubborn to admit he could have been wrong. His son now is sheriff. Even if it could be solved, I don't think it will.
Patricia Meehan is another one, although she might very well have wandered off into the wilderness like Dan Wilson and died from exposure.

I agree that Patricia Meehan should have been found, but I think it eas Kristi Krebs that got stuck in the mud.

Is

Strychnine poisoning normally takes 10 to 20 minutes to start affecting someone, with death not occurring until 2 to 3 hours later. If you had unusual symptoms starting where you weren't feeling well and you normally took Nyquil to help you sleep and never had any kind of reaction to it before.. Would your mind think back to the Nyquil?

She was dead at 4:15am.. So, Figure she took the dose between 1am and 2am. She made the call to friends, not to 911, at 3am.


It is possible to commit suicide by drinking Strychnine, but I will lean towards murder until given more solid proof otherwise, because by all accounts, Strychnine poisoning is one of the most horrible ways to go. Excruciating pain-induced seizures are involved and you maintain almost complete awareness as your body shuts down bit by bit. However suicidal a person may be, they would have to be unbelievably insane to commit suicide that way. I don’t have enough details about Patsy Wright to be certain as to whether she had a history of mental illness, but the only way I can picture someone committing suicide that way, is if advanced dementia or someone was in the grips of a massive psychotic episode. If Patsy had a history of either, I think it would have come out by now, and even if Dementia or psychosis was involved, I’d still have some doubts, because as said before, it is a very horrible way to go.

Though for me, it has to be the Jeremy Bright case. All it would take is for one person to open their mouth, and it’s not like teenagers are known for being criminal masterminds. Then again, from the sounds of it, poor Jeremy had what had to be the worst cops* shown on UM working on his case. If a kid goes missing, you look for him. You do not spend two weeks sitting on your asses. Even if Jeremy talked endlessly to his friends about running off with the carnival, left behind detailed plans titled “My Plan to Run Off and Join the Carnival,” and a goodbye note to his family saying, “I’ve run off and join the carnival. Catch you later. Hugs and kisses, Jeremy,” you would still check because the welfare of a child is at stake.

*By worst, I mean in terms of outright incompetence and suckitude, so crooked cops, while terrible, are exempt from the category.

It is possible to commit suicide by drinking Strychnine, but I will lean towards murder until given more solid proof otherwise, because by all accounts, Strychnine poisoning is one of the most horrible ways to go. Excruciating pain-induced seizures are involved and you maintain almost complete awareness as your body shuts down bit by bit. However suicidal a person may be, they would have to be unbelievably insane to commit suicide that way. I don’t have enough details about Patsy Wright to be certain as to whether she had a history of mental illness, but the only way I can picture someone committing suicide that way, is if advanced dementia or someone was in the grips of a massive psychotic episode. If Patsy had a history of either, I think it would have come out by now, and even if Dementia or psychosis was involved, I’d still have some doubts, because as said before, it is a very horrible way to go.

Though for me, it has to be the Jeremy Bright case. All it would take is for one person to open their mouth, and it’s not like teenagers are known for being criminal masterminds. Then again, from the sounds of it, poor Jeremy had what had to be the worst cops* shown on UM working on his case. If a kid goes missing, you look for him. You do not spend two weeks sitting on your asses. Even if Jeremy talked endlessly to his friends about running off with the carnival, left behind detailed plans titled “My Plan to Run Off and Join the Carnival,” and a goodbye note to his family saying, “I’ve run off and join the carnival. Catch you later. Hugs and kisses, Jeremy,” you would still check because the welfare of a child is at stake.

*By worst, I mean in terms of outright incompetence and suckitude, so crooked cops, while terrible, are exempt from the category.


Well, you wonder if someone not familiar could be confused between strychnine and cyanide. Just a theory. I don't really buy it myself, but the fact that she pointed out that she had taken the cold medicine. Though, you can explain that by saying we don't know the details of the call. She may have called for help and they asked "Did you take anything?" and she replied "Just my cold medicine" or something like that. The way stories are presented isn't always the most descriptive, detailed or accurate. So, based strictly on that, which I admit could be wrong.. It rubs me the wrong way that she would mention taking the cold medicine when it was normal for her to do so, and she had done it many times in the past with no ill effect.



Bright.. Yeah. I'd say that Terry Steinhoff took the secret to his grave. He was serving a paroleable sentence, so, any information he gave would likely catch him additional time. There was just no incentive for him to provide any info. Had he been sentenced to life without parole for the Patricia Morris killing.. Maybe. So, right now, the only person who likely knows anything is his cousin David, who seems to be the person who probably did the killing.. And there's certainly no reason, assuming he's not in prison, for him to implicate himself, assuming he's still alive.

So many!

Katherine Korzilius. I know it was a very quiet neighbourhood, but seriously??

Virtually anyone who just disappeared, especially if they disappeared away from remote areas. Jim Kimball, for one. Adam Hecht.

Niqui McCown. Annoying that the DNA tests on the remains found in 2003 were inconclusive, and that Tommy Swint's ex gf isn't talking.

OH, and Angela Hammond. I don't know why, but that one really gets to me.:confused:

Oh, let me throw one out here that was NOT on Unsolved Mysteries, but still.. How has this not been solved?

the Kyron Hormon case in the northwest. Ponderous, man.. Effing ponderous that hasn't been solved.

This will likely be a case like a Jacob Wetterling ..... a confession many years later.

On Dub and Chance, police are convinced the two were murdered by someone close to the family. It was an update added to the Amazon segment. But that's all the info we have and no arrests have been made. Maybe it's a combination of not enough evidence and nobody willing to talk.

Rachel Runyan

Jody Bordeaux

The two Mary Morrises

Jeremy Bright

Angela Hammond

Oliver Munson

Debra Poe

I really thought that the Lisa Bishop/Freedon case would have been solved in some way by now. I still don't see how a large freighter ship goes missing and none of the people on board pop up anywhere. No wreckage or bodies were ever found. A ship full of people can't just disappear into thin air. I really feel like the authorities were being really lazy in searching for the ship when this case was fresh.

Ships sink to the ocean floor all the time. This particular ship was a junky tin can with outdated communications, if it had any at all. The people on board never had a chance with that ship and that "captain"

The Walter Rice case.. I keep coming back to.. That one just bugs the ever-lovin bejeesus out of me.

I did a little more lookup on it today, and actually went to the McCormick City Cemetery a few weeks ago to try to locate his grave and get a photo of it for findagrave.. I got there late and it was getting dark, so, couldn't find it.. May try again down the road.

But, I did find some info.. This is where he lived..

https://goo.gl/maps/fEezaQJDgAy

It's now a vacant lot.. The trailer he lived in was removed many years ago.

I don't think it would be too hard to get some more answers on Clifford Sherwood. Between the unidentified torso, Tex's military records, the mysterious driver's license, and the complete lack of acknowledgment of the Georges Gumbley disappearance, it seems to me that a lot of stones were left unturned in this case. With all due respect, Frances seemed more interested in proving her pet theory than with finding out the truth of what happened.

It also seems odd to me that no trace of George Owens ever turned up. I'm actually of the idea that he wound up in a nursing home as a John Doe, because his body would've been found in the wilderness had he wandered off.

his body would've been found in the wilderness had he wandered off.

Not necessarily. At times, someone hunkers down in an area, such as a cave or something like that, it can be years and years and years before they're found, if they ever are.

Animal predation can cause bones to be spread out over a large area.

I don't think there's any real evidence of something untowards happening to George Owens. I think it's pretty straightforward that he had a medical episode of some kind, and passed away in the woods.

What's the general accepted theory about Jenny Pratt

I wonder how hard they tried to find and arrest Gloria Schulze immediately following her no show in court. My wife’s best friend’s husband was killed by an intoxicated driver in 2015. The suspect was taken straight to jail after getting treatments for his injury at a hospital. I do not understand how that woman Schulze couldn’t be arrested the minute she left the hospital. The court system completely failed the Maher family by basicallly letting the woman walk free like nothing happened.

I wonder how hard they tried to find and arrest Gloria Schulze immediately following her no show in court. My wife’s best friend’s husband was killed by an intoxicated driver in 2015. The suspect was taken straight to jail after getting treatments for his injury at a hospital. I do not understand how that woman Schulze couldn’t be arrested the minute she left the hospital. The court system completely failed the Maher family by basicallly letting the woman walk free like nothing happened.

I feel your frustration on this one. Angela's mother begged the court for Schulze to be held in jail until the trial. Almost as if she was expecting her to go on the run if she had the chance.

You're totally right about the court system failing Angela's family. After Schulze missed six drug tests (she was ordered to take three a week), it astounds me that nobody found that suspicious immediately. Or the fact that she hadn't contacted the court in several weeks. They pretty much rolled the red carpet to her escape.

What's the general accepted theory about Jenny Pratt

As far as..? I can't speak for anyone else, but almost certainly it was people that Curtis Croft knew or was involved in drugs with.

I think Curtis was threatened if he said anything else so he clammed up.

A bit surprising that no information about who did it has leaked. Though, some has, and they believe the person most responsible committed suicide.

I feel your frustration on this one. Angela's mother begged the court for Schulze to be held in jail until the trial. Almost as if she was expecting her to go on the run if she had the chance.

You're totally right about the court system failing Angela's family. After Schulze missed six drug tests (she was ordered to take three a week), it astounds me that nobody found that suspicious immediately. Or the fact that she hadn't contacted the court in several weeks. They pretty much rolled the red carpet to her escape.

You are right that this was a failure. The US Constitution allows people to be released on bail, so, there was no reason initially that she shouldn't have been released on bail. The fact that she was released on a PR Bond.. That is very questionable. I would think she should have had at least a $20-$30k bond based on when this happened and the charges she was facing.

The fact that she missed multiple drug tests.. There's another reason that her PR Bond should have been yanked. Again, perhaps she would have been released again after putting up some money, but there should have been more security on her bond than her word.

This is very surprising that this woman has managed to stay off the grid for so long. She's getting help from someone.

I feel your frustration on this one. Angela's mother begged the court for Schulze to be held in jail until the trial. Almost as if she was expecting her to go on the run if she had the chance.

You're totally right about the court system failing Angela's family. After Schulze missed six drug tests (she was ordered to take three a week), it astounds me that nobody found that suspicious immediately. Or the fact that she hadn't contacted the court in several weeks. They pretty much rolled the red carpet to her escape.

It’s the one I was angriest at the most when it had no update. No reason for her to be free all these years.

It’s the one I was angriest at the most when it had no update. No reason for her to be free all these years.

Yeah that case is proof positive you don't have to be a criminal mastermind to stay hidden for decades.

Still I get the general idea that law enforcement haven't exactly been pursuing her as doggedly as they should have.

Jeremy Bright's killer should have been caught. The FBI should have been called in. The suspects (and Jeremy's friend) should have been brought in and interrogated by the FBI professionals and I would guarantee that would have gotten that one little piece to put it all together. Law enforcement blew it on this one big time. Now the suspects are dead, his friend is dead, and LE has one dead end after another.

Yeah that case is proof positive you don't have to be a criminal mastermind to stay hidden for decades.

Still I get the general idea that law enforcement haven't exactly been pursuing her as doggedly as they should have.

Agreed. I feel pretty strongly that Schulze is what we call "hiding in plain sight." As in, she'll eventually get picked up on some bogus thing (speeding ticket or whatnot) and LE will discover she's been wanted for 20+ years.

I've seen it happen before and I'm sure it will happen again.

Agreed. I feel pretty strongly that Schulze is what we call "hiding in plain sight." As in, she'll eventually get picked up on some bogus thing (speeding ticket or whatnot) and LE will discover she's been wanted for 20+ years.

I've seen it happen before and I'm sure it will happen again.

There are areas in the US that people can hide and just flat out not be found, regardless of the intensity of the search.

Think Eric Rudolph down in Western NC. He was hiding out for years in the Pisgah National Forest and he wouldn't have been caught if he hadn't been busted sneaking into a small town and raiding a dumpster.

There are areas in the far north of Minnesota, the Dakotas and the like.

Alaska.. It's a problem getting there, but if you can get there.. You could disappear.

Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire have areas.

All of these rely on one simple thing, though. Survival skills. You have to live off the grid. I don't believe this woman has the skills to do that. So, my opinion. She's getting help. Now.. She might be getting help from someone who DOES have those skills. Or, she could just be living in someone's basement and never leaving the house.

Either way.. She isn't staying hidden on her own.

She might be getting help from someone who DOES have those skills. Or, she could just be living in someone's basement and never leaving the house.

Either way.. She isn't staying hidden on her own.

Agreed: she doesn't sound like anyone who has any surivival skills or training. Given her drug issues I doubt she suddenly said "guess I better not use any drugs anymore as I will need a sharp mind to keep hidden."

If there is one thing that we can take comfort in, its that if she has been hiding in a basement somewhere, she probably "served" a longer confinement sentence than if she was tried and convicted. I know the Arizona laws are far stricter than here in Canada (a nearly identical case here ended in a whopping 2 year sentence) but she wasn't going to get 25 years especially given her connection$.

I still can't believe this case hasn't been solved: we can only hope she died in the wild rather than kill another innocent person.

Don't remember the names, but does anyone remember a case where a woman was raped by two men on a canoeing trip when she had her son with her?

What made the case so disconcerting though as I remember it, is when she reported the rape it seemed like none of the locals were willing to talk, even though they gave law enforcement the impression they knew who did it.

Those cases where so many people are to scared to talk are always disturbing. Who could these guys have been that so many ppl would be so scared?

Anyone remember this one or have any updates?

Brazos River Attack?

Yeah that's a hugely controversial one which is also why its missing from Prime. Apparently she might have made the whole thing up

Brazos River Attack?

Yeah that's a hugely controversial one which is also why its missing from Prime. Apparently she might have made the whole thing up

I'd be curious a to what Zack has to say about this case 20+ years down the road.

He was 7 at the time.. He would have memories of it.

This came up in another thread but I can’t believe the Richard Aderson road rage murder was never solved. It was known that the suspect drove a green Jeep Cherokee with New Hampshire plates. That alone would narrow down the list of possible suspects to the point that it seems like it would have been investigated and solved in 25 years. Unless some details about the assailant and his car were wrong, but there were a number of witnesses who saw the accident and argument, and nobody has disputed it, so I find that unlikely

There are areas in the US that people can hide and just flat out not be found, regardless of the intensity of the search.


While rural areas come to mind for many people, in reality rural areas can be difficult to hide in due to the nature of small towns, everyone knows everyone and outsiders are identified quickly.
Large cities are in some ways the easiest for someone to hide in, due to the sheer number of people in such a small area that for the most part don't know each other.

Its kind of difficult conceptually to say what cases "should" have been solved, since by definition they are unsolved, and thus the difficulty of the solution is unknown.
But if there was one I was surprised was never solved it was "Annie Laurie Hearin"

Sal Guardado-the guy was a bum with little money, probably could barely scrap together bus fare, let alone a plane ticket to Hawaii or Puerto Rico as mentioned in the segment. Maybe he had connections in Mexico unaware to the detectives in the case.

Richard Bockledge-another guy who didn't seem like the type to have the resources to be on the lam for very long. I think he probably sent the letter to Tanya'a family as a condemnation before wandering off into the Canadian wilderness and took his own life (Dennis Depue did something similar).

Dale Kerstetter-I think if the platinum heist was an inside job, it was more likely carried out by one of the higher ups in the company, so they could blame Dale as the fall guy and collect insurance money or something. I don't think Dale is still alive, he either might have been tossed into one of the furnaces in the factory or his body was taken into the vast wilderness or the Great Lakes and dumped there.

"Debbie"-the assailants DNA was collected from her car, so I'm surprised they haven't found him through CODIS because he seemed like a repeat offender.

Marlene Santana-I'm only semi-surprised this case hasn't been solved. There's a chance she's still alive, probably under a different name. Another case of DNA ancestry that could work.

Justin Burgwinkel-I think he ran away to South America where he could have fought as a mercenary, or more likely joined the French Foreign Legion. Maybe he died in action before his then-handlers knew who he was, but didn't make the effort to properly identify him and return his remains.

Mark Groezinger-it's possible Judy might have done it, but the police don't seem to have even ruled her out by doing ballistics test with the revolver she purchased around the time of the murder.

Richard Bockledge-another guy who didn't seem like the type to have the resources to be on the lam for very long. I think he probably sent the letter to Tanya'a family as a condemnation before wandering off into the Canadian wilderness and took his own life (Dennis Depue did something similar).

The letter Richard wrote to Tatjana's family was a giant cesspool of BS that he used to justify murdering her. And the fact that he wrote that she disgraced countless Americans shows just how far his narcissism went.

The man was waaaaay too cocky and arrogant to take his own life, in my humble opinion. He wasn't capable of feeling guilt because nothing was ever his own fault. It was the college's fault that he flunked out. It was the Dean of Admissions fault for not letting him back in. It was Tatiana's fault that she couldn't put up with his temper and outbursts which ended the relationship. And it was Tatiana's fault for getting murdered. His conscience is completely clear. So why kill himself?

I'd believe his family is helping him stay hidden before I'd ever believe he took his own life. They may not know every single detail about where he's been hiding all these years but they definitely had a hand in helping him stay hidden.

Pam Page

The letter Richard wrote to Tatjana's family was a giant cesspool of BS that he used to justify murdering her. And the fact that he wrote that she disgraced countless Americans shows just how far his narcissism went.

The man was waaaaay too cocky and arrogant to take his own life, in my humble opinion. He wasn't capable of feeling guilt because nothing was ever his own fault. It was the college's fault that he flunked out. It was the Dean of Admissions fault for not letting him back in. It was Tatiana's fault that she couldn't put up with his temper and outbursts which ended the relationship. And it was Tatiana's fault for getting murdered. His conscience is completely clear. So why kill himself?

I'd believe his family is helping him stay hidden before I'd ever believe he took his own life. They may not know every single detail about where he's been hiding all these years but they definitely had a hand in helping him stay hidden.
I agree I don't think he committed suicide either. This is a guy that if you looked up DB in the old Webster's dictionary it would have that picture they show at the end of the segment. now he may have died while on the run, I wouldn't discount that possibility and it would be karma if that happened. but he could be alive somewhere living on his own or under the cover of a loved one as you mentioned.

Sal Guardalo

Sal Guardado-the guy was a bum with little money, probably could barely scrap together bus fare, let alone a plane ticket to Hawaii or Puerto Rico as mentioned in the segment. Maybe he had connections in Mexico unaware to the detectives in the case.

Richard Bockledge-another guy who didn't seem like the type to have the resources to be on the lam for very long. I think he probably sent the letter to Tanya'a family as a condemnation before wandering off into the Canadian wilderness and took his own life (Dennis Depue did something similar).

Dale Kerstetter-I think if the platinum heist was an inside job, it was more likely carried out by one of the higher ups in the company, so they could blame Dale as the fall guy and collect insurance money or something. I don't think Dale is still alive, he either might have been tossed into one of the furnaces in the factory or his body was taken into the vast wilderness or the Great Lakes and dumped there.

"Debbie"-the assailants DNA was collected from her car, so I'm surprised they haven't found him through CODIS because he seemed like a repeat offender.

Marlene Santana-I'm only semi-surprised this case hasn't been solved. There's a chance she's still alive, probably under a different name. Another case of DNA ancestry that could work.

Justin Burgwinkel-I think he ran away to South America where he could have fought as a mercenary, or more likely joined the French Foreign Legion. Maybe he died in action before his then-handlers knew who he was, but didn't make the effort to properly identify him and return his remains.

Mark Groezinger-it's possible Judy might have done it, but the police don't seem to have even ruled her out by doing ballistics test with the revolver she purchased around the time of the murder.

I think Burgwinkel may have been suicidal, I think that he was living a lie and everything was going wrong very early on in his Army career. I think he was in over his head. but I guess it is possible that he was involved with some type of crime, that does happen.

Debbie is an interesting one. it is disappointing that the state trooper was close to confronting him in the act and opted to pull over a speeder. it really shows their priorities in North Carolina (and many other states as well)....I guess I'm being harsh in hindsight. Good point about the DNA, I guess it is still possible that he could be brought to justice if they are even still pursuing that angle?

Sal G...yeah I'm very surprised he was never caught.

I agree I don't think he committed suicide either. This is a guy that if you looked up DB in the old Webster's dictionary it would have that picture they show at the end of the segment. now he may have died while on the run, I wouldn't discount that possibility and it would be karma if that happened. but he could be alive somewhere living on his own or under the cover of a loved one as you mentioned.

I found this interesting and detailed write up about Richard Bocklage the other day. His family is well aware that many people believe that they're helping him stay hidden. They interview Richard's cousin and she, of course, denies it. But she claims to not know. There's a couple statements that will make you want to roll your eyes but an interesting read nonetheless.

https://lasttraces.com/

Thanks for posting that...very interesting. The details that were not mentioned in the UM segment, the remoteness of the road and that Bocklage left a note saying he ran out of gas, make me convinced he killed himself in the woods with his .45.

Yes, Richard Bocklage was an extreme narcissist, but his life had completely unraveled and was out of control. Running out of gas in that remote area signaled to him that he was going to get caught and he had no other choices left but to take his own life. His symptoms and behavior before the murder were escalating and I don't believe someone like that can blend into society for 40 years with no further contact with law enforcement.

Thanks for posting that...very interesting. The details that were not mentioned in the UM segment, the remoteness of the road and that Bocklage left a note saying he ran out of gas, make me convinced he killed himself in the woods with his .45.

Yes, Richard Bocklage was an extreme narcissist, but his life had completely unraveled and was out of control. Running out of gas in that remote area signaled to him that he was going to get caught and he had no other choices left but to take his own life. His symptoms and behavior before the murder were escalating and I don't believe someone like that can blend into society for 40 years with no further contact with law enforcement.

Then where is the body?

Probably completely decomposed into skeleton out in the Manitoba wilderness. I have no doubt that a body in the "right" place out there might never be found.
I've always thought he decided to off himself ... or, short of that, underestimated the difficulty of surviving in the wilderness even in late September and October, when it's already starting to get pretty chilly up in Manitoba. He hasn't been seen or heard from in over 40 years. If indeed he's still alive, that takes a lot of skill to simply vanish off the face of the Earth.

Then where is the body?

The article says his car was found on Provincial Road 280, north of Thompson, Manitoba, several miles south of Mystery Lake. PR280 is a gravel road that goes deep into the wilderness.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Thompson,+MB,+Canada/@55.805066,-97.8244085,23534m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x525fc66cc346c559:0xd1985426b2df902d!8m2!3d55.7449251!4d-97.8508715

Thompson is a decent sized city, if he didn't go back there, he'd be in the wildness...there's nothing else out there. It would be easy for a body to stay hidden forever out there.

I too think Bocklage is dead and his remains are in the Canadian wilderness somewhere.

While rural areas come to mind for many people, in reality rural areas can be difficult to hide in due to the nature of small towns, everyone knows everyone and outsiders are identified quickly.
Large cities are in some ways the easiest for someone to hide in, due to the sheer number of people in such a small area that for the most part don't know each other.

Its kind of difficult conceptually to say what cases "should" have been solved, since by definition they are unsolved, and thus the difficulty of the solution is unknown.
But if there was one I was surprised was never solved it was "Annie Laurie Hearin"

I was more thinking about people who live 'off the grid' rather than necessarily in small towns. My example on it is Eric Rudolph who successfully hid for.. What was it? 7 years or so? now, MOST people cannot do that, admittedly, because they don't have the survival skills to do it. But, it'd be interesting to think through your point.. is it easier to hide 'in plain sight' in a big city or in a smaller town?

A big city means more eyes are on you, but those eyes aren't concentrating as much on you.. While a small town has less eyes but more focus.

Then where is the body?

Probably completely decomposed into skeleton out in the Manitoba wilderness. I have no doubt that a body in the "right" place out there might never be found.
I've always thought he decided to off himself ... or, short of that, underestimated the difficulty of surviving in the wilderness even in late September and October, when it's already starting to get pretty chilly up in Manitoba. He hasn't been seen or heard from in over 40 years. If indeed he's still alive, that takes a lot of skill to simply vanish off the face of the Earth.

Yeah.. We just had a case here where a road crew just now found a body of someone who disappeared 5 years ago.

https://www.independentmail.com/story/news/local/2022/01/25/anderson-county-sc-suspected-human-remains-i-85/9211394002/

People don't seem to quite understand that.. There's a number of places that people just don't go to very often. The above link, where that body was found, is not necessarily a really rural area. The sad part, it was about a mile away from where his car was found.. So.. Sounds like he had car issues or ran out of gas and started walking and SOMETHING went horribly wrong.

But, he was just sitting there for 5 years, waiting to be found.

one would THINK that they might have searched along the interstate for a mile or so..

It's not like when someone dies in the woods that a big smoke signal goes up.. Yeah, you'll often (around here, at least) have buzzards and the like over the area, but.. Same thing happens when a deer dies in the woods. And a small area of woods is.. Quite large when you're looking for something that may or may not be there.

EDIT - Someone said in another topic how they were shocked that someone could be missing 20+ years and they finally find their vehicle at the bottom of a pond during a drought or something. Again.. It just shocks me that people don't realize just how often that happens. There were.. 3 or 4 cases on Unsolved Mysteries that had that EXACT outcome. One, somewhere in the midwest where the guy and his girlfriend turned off on a country road accidentally and backed into a pond. The more surprising part about those cases to me is that the people don't.. You know.. GET OUT OF THE CAR.

But.. Even THAT can be explained, somewhat by panic. They hit the water and those car doors are NOT going to open due to the pressure. But, once the car fills up a little over halfway.. The doors will open. But, by that time, they're totally panicked. Newer vehicles, in the water the electric windows may not come down.. But the older cases, before power windows.. Again, I think it's panic.. The car's filling up.. Don't roll down the windows, it'll fill up quicker! Well.. Technically.. That's what you WANT.

Dan Wilson, found pretty much in the area where he disappeared roughly seven years later, is another case in point. IIRC, that area was searched as well in the weeks following his disappearance and he wasn't found. Ultimately, he was about five miles from where his car was found.
For all we know, Patricia Meehan's remains may be out in a prairie somewhere. I tend to think that less than with Dan Wilson because searchers specifically lost her scent, but it's possible.

Dan Wilson, found pretty much in the area where he disappeared roughly seven years later, is another case in point. IIRC, that area was searched as well in the weeks following his disappearance and he wasn't found. Ultimately, he was about five miles from where his car was found.
For all we know, Patricia Meehan's remains may be out in a prairie somewhere. I tend to think that less than with Dan Wilson because searchers specifically lost her scent, but it's possible.

Sure.. And.. What about the one where the entire family disappeared? umm.. Jamison Family. They find the car, with about 30k in cash and the family dog locked in it and then several years later find the remains of the family.

The problem is, when an area has been searched and someone isn't found.. THAT'S when the wild conspiracy theories start. Even the Jamison family.. I lean towards them getting disoriented (Possibly drug induced) and lost in the woods.

(I searched the forum but could not find a thread with a similar title).

What UM do you think can be solved?

For instance, the case of Deloris Brooks who was searching for a former teacher - Madeline Strauss (October 20, 1993 UM episode).

The case is listed as ‘unsolvedk on the UM fandom page:

https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Madeline_Strauss

If Deloris Brooks’s illness (Reye’s Syndome) did not cause her to create new memories, and given that Madeline Strauss was a teacher in a public school (Decatur Junior High, Brooklyn, NYC), I would assume that there’d be records that be sourced and that Madeline Strauss could be tracked down.

The episode was close on 30 years ago and far more records have been digitized and are searchable. It seems open to be solved!

In any case, what other UM cases have a similar potential of being solved? I’m not just talking about advancements in DNA and ancestor/descendant tracking, but UM cases that can be solved through other means?

There's one here that I started a few years back.. Not the exact same, but I think in the same spirit..

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=374364

Not saying this topic doesn't have a place, just.. You can look through there and see some cases brought up in it.

Can is a pretty lenient criteria, I would say in principle almost any of them still can be solved, but the probability of them being solved is another matter.
Or to put it differently, I cannot think of one where it would be reasonable to say it cannot be solved

Keith Warren and Mark Finley

I've always believed that the Patsy Wright murder can be solved OP. It never sat right with me that no one was ever able to trace the Strychnine...especially after the segment pointed out how uniquely pure and highly regulated the substance was.
I also still hold out hope that the Brian Foguth murder can be solved some day. IIRC, the segment mentioned that a small amount of blood believed to be from the perpetrator was found at the scene. I can only hope that means a DNA match might be possible at some point.
I'm also hopeful that the Angela Hammond case will be solved some day. To this day I find myself occasionally on the lookout for that ever elusive truck with the decal across it's rear window.
And of course one can never forget that Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman's killer is still out there somewhere. Now that the Juice is loose once again, he can finally resume his search for the "real killer"! ;-) *Okay...so I might have been just screwing around on that last one.

The USS Willard Keith. I watched this last night and.. This is the one where the USS Willard Keith dropped depth charges on a sub off the coast of California in 1945 and, they think, destroyed a sub.. Presumably Japanese.

But, no records exist, the government doesn't acknowledge dropping of depth charges and there's anecdotal evidence of people having found a sunken sub in the area

one of the sailors bought a boat and was searching for it. Last I can find is 2002. No idea if Bill Anderson is still alive or still searching for the sub.


Edit to add - Brain Foguth.. Shocking that hasn't been solved, if they have the persons blood.

as for Patsy Wright.. Something has always sat wrong with me on that. I've entertained the idea of that being a suicide, but.. Damn. That'd be a hell of a way to go. The thing that bothers me about it, and sorry to be a broken record here.. She took Nyquil often to help her sleep.. So, why THIS TIME does she take it, have difficulty breathing, and immediately think it's due to the Nyquil?

if you take a tylenol before bed every night, then wake up throwing up at 3am one night.. Are you immediately going to think "I got bad Tylenol"?

Jim Boumgarden seemed so totally solvable that when it aired I thought it absolutely was fake. Why not just run articles in regional papers asking, "Do you look just like this guy or know who does?" Apparently the twin was real, but I still wonder about this one. I am not alone. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/i9biup/jim_boumgarden_and_his_unidentified_twin_why/

The USS Willard Keith. I watched this last night and.. This is the one where the USS Willard Keith dropped depth charges on a sub off the coast of California in 1945 and, they think, destroyed a sub.. Presumably Japanese.

But, no records exist, the government doesn't acknowledge dropping of depth charges and there's anecdotal evidence of people having found a sunken sub in the area

one of the sailors bought a boat and was searching for it. Last I can find is 2002. No idea if Bill Anderson is still alive or still searching for the sub.


Edit to add - Brain Foguth.. Shocking that hasn't been solved, if they have the persons blood.

as for Patsy Wright.. Something has always sat wrong with me on that. I've entertained the idea of that being a suicide, but.. Damn. That'd be a hell of a way to go. The thing that bothers me about it, and sorry to be a broken record here.. She took Nyquil often to help her sleep.. So, why THIS TIME does she take it, have difficulty breathing, and immediately think it's due to the Nyquil?

if you take a tylenol before bed every night, then wake up throwing up at 3am one night.. Are you immediately going to think "I got bad Tylenol"?

You make a good point regarding the Wright case Labonte and I'd never really thought of it that way before. Like Patsy, I too have a habit of taking OTC medicine to help me sleep and you're right about the fact that bad Benedryl wouldn't be my first thought if I suddenly started having trouble breathing.
It also occurs to me that my Benedryl use isn't typically something that just comes up in casual conversation with every joe blow I meet. Whoever murdered Patsy Wright didn't just know about her Nyquil usage, they apparently knew where she typically kept the medication, AND was familiar enough with her living arrangements to know that it wasn't likely a third party would also be using it. Now to me this all implies that the perpetrator was someone who was close to Patsy. Or am I just overthinking it?

Glad to see all the replies here!

My initial post was to see whether you thought there were cases which, with some thorough investigation, would lead to an answer.

I cited the Deloris Brooks / Madeline Strauss case because it appears that at least IDing Madeline Strauss would involve checks against school / state records or perhaps also finding other people who taught or studied at the school at that time.

Of course, some records are sealed, lost, or whatever, but I think that there are plenty of avenues to follow up to solve the case, or simply indicate that Madeline Strauss was a figment of Deloris Brooks’ imagination.

That found bible one

A couple of World War II cases. The guy named Parker or something with a P who met a guy who looked just like him, had the same last name, and knew additional details to a family legend. There is so much DNA and genealogical data out there now they should have found the other family, and why did no one respond at the time (I don't think anyone did)?

The lady in Eastern Europe who saved an American plane crew and wondered if any survived. Seriously, are there NO RECORDS, even with the government, of American planes lost at that time in that area? Did NO ONE lose a family member around that time and place, or get one back? Did she know any of the crew members' names?

How about the "it's gotta be a Dodge" lady--Pat Mealbach I think? I guess they did a DNA test but didn't reveal results or something.

The lady in Eastern Europe who saved an American plane crew and wondered if any survived. Seriously, are there NO RECORDS, even with the government, of American planes lost at that time in that area? Did NO ONE lose a family member around that time and place, or get one back? Did she know any of the crew members' names?



This one was solved:

https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/The_Search_of_Helen_Elas_Conka

This one was solved:

https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/The_Search_of_Helen_Elas_Conka

Thanks, I don't remember seeing that solution and the Wiki doesn't say how long it took.

Thanks, I don't remember seeing that solution and the Wiki doesn't say how long it took.
I wish I could offer you more details, but I haven't been able to find much online, only that she did locate the men (Filmrise did include this in their uploading of the segment as well). I would love to know more about this. Presumably the priest and other underground members helped them escape.

You make a good point regarding the Wright case Labonte and I'd never really thought of it that way before. Like Patsy, I too have a habit of taking OTC medicine to help me sleep and you're right about the fact that bad Benedryl wouldn't be my first thought if I suddenly started having trouble breathing.
It also occurs to me that my Benedryl use isn't typically something that just comes up in casual conversation with every joe blow I meet. Whoever murdered Patsy Wright didn't just know about her Nyquil usage, they apparently knew where she typically kept the medication, AND was familiar enough with her living arrangements to know that it wasn't likely a third party would also be using it. Now to me this all implies that the perpetrator was someone who was close to Patsy. Or am I just overthinking it?

If you're going down the road that she was murdered, then your thinking is spot on and no, you're not overthinking it.

For me, it's just hard to get past the part about her calling her sister and blaming the Nyquil right away. And, we're not mentioning the SECOND part of that which is.. Confusing. If you're having difficulty breathing.. Wouldn't your first call be to 911? Now, this was.. Sometime in the 80's as I recall.. 1987. So, 911 was not universal at that time, but she was in Arlington, TX.. I'd bet it was there, being a suburb of Dallas. Plus, even before that, for those of us old enough to remember, you'd get stickers or cards to keep near the phone with local emergency numbers.

Did she have a reason to kill herself? Well, I can't noodle that through to get a yes answer, either. We can say she didn't realize what strychnine would do and the horrible death it would cause, just like many people don't realize that shooting themselves in the head oftentimes isn't an 'instant' death. But.. Seemingly, she had no reason to try to kill herself. OTHER THAN.. And this is a maybe..

Remember that they found two dinner plates, indicating that she had a dinner with someone at her house the night she died. Now, that's not certain, she might have just eaten off two plates. but, suppose she had a secret affair going on, he ended it that night and she decided to end it all?

The Brother In Law would be a good suspect, but both he and his wife (The sister) passed polygraphs. Would be hard for the sister to not know her husband was involved, and harder for them BOTH to pass a polygraph. Plus the fact that he gave mouth to mouth and no evidence from the house was tampered with.

Again, what bothers me the most is her blaming the Nyquil. That is the piece of the puzzle that just doesn't fit if we're looking at the murder angle.

For me, it's just hard to get past the part about her calling her sister and blaming the Nyquil right away. And, we're not mentioning the SECOND part of that which is.. Confusing. If you're having difficulty breathing.. Wouldn't your first call be to 911? Now, this was.. Sometime in the 80's as I recall.. 1987. So, 911 was not universal at that time, but she was in Arlington, TX.. I'd bet it was there, being a suburb of Dallas. Plus, even before that, for those of us old enough to remember, you'd get stickers or cards to keep near the phone with local emergency numbers.

Yes, in 1987, only half the country had access to 911. (Me being a very little kid in the 80's, I was taught the local emergency number long before I was taught 911.) Given where the country was in 1987, it would be much more likely that Patsy would have called her local emergency number but remember, she was temporarily renting a house at that time while her own house was under construction. It's entirely possible she didn't have the emergency number for that particular neighborhood, or didn't have it memorized. Or it might have been written down elsewhere in the house and she was in no condition at that moment to look for it. Her sister's number would have been memorized, so I can see why she'd call her in a panic situation like that.

And the part about the Nyquil, it's all about the timing. She felt fine beforehand and then after taking the Nquil, she was in excruciating pain and had trouble breathing. Why wouldn't she mention it? Wouldn't anyone in that situation immediately say, "I just took some cold medicine, something is wrong." ???

And the part about the Nyquil, it's all about the timing. She felt fine beforehand and then after taking the Nquil, she was in excruciating pain and had trouble breathing. Why wouldn't she mention it? Wouldn't anyone in that situation immediately say, "I just took some cold medicine, something is wrong." ???

Because she had done it many times in the past.

Again, if you take a blood pressure medicine every night and one night, an hour after taking it, you start feeling sick, are you going to say "My blood pressure medicine made me sick"?

It would be about 20 minutes after taking the Nyquil that it would start affecting her.

what we also don't know, new bottle or not? I can at least give a little more credibility to it if it was a new bottle that she opened. If it was a bottle she had taken some from before.. That's even less that someone would think about it making them sick.

Because she had done it many times in the past.

Again, if you take a blood pressure medicine every night and one night, an hour after taking it, you start feeling sick, are you going to say "My blood pressure medicine made me sick"?

It would be about 20 minutes after taking the Nyquil that it would start affecting her.

what we also don't know, new bottle or not? I can at least give a little more credibility to it if it was a new bottle that she opened. If it was a bottle she had taken some from before.. That's even less that someone would think about it making them sick.

I actually have some personal experience with this Labonte, interestingly enough. Back in 2017 my doc put me on a different BP med, and also prescribed a sleep med. A few months later I had a bizarre fainting spell at home one night about an hour after I'd taken my daily meds. It scared my family so much they called 9-11 and had me taken to the ER... unfortunately nothing conclusive was ever found. My doc and I ended up disagreeing about the cause. She said it was likely caused by the BP med, and I was sure it was the sleep med. My reasoning of course was that I'd been taking the BP med without incident for several weeks at that point, but that night had been my first time taking the sleep med. As such, my doc took me off the sleep med but kept prescribing the BP meds. Though we'll probably never know which one of us was right, I can honestly say that I've never had any further problems.

This case from before Clifford Sherwood has just been solved.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/babes-in-the-woods-identified-1.6352438?fbclid=IwAR04F6DJOBOYIRqdiklnvjx291p22WcVEHxCpiJ4CNRP5tz4RSUKZQ79nqY

I actually have some personal experience with this Labonte, interestingly enough. Back in 2017 my doc put me on a different BP med, and also prescribed a sleep med. A few months later I had a bizarre fainting spell at home one night about an hour after I'd taken my daily meds. It scared my family so much they called 9-11 and had me taken to the ER... unfortunately nothing conclusive was ever found. My doc and I ended up disagreeing about the cause. She said it was likely caused by the BP med, and I was sure it was the sleep med. My reasoning of course was that I'd been taking the BP med without incident for several weeks at that point, but that night had been my first time taking the sleep med. As such, my doc took me off the sleep med but kept prescribing the BP meds. Though we'll probably never know which one of us was right, I can honestly say that I've never had any further problems.

I've had drug reactions before myself.

They put me on Lisinopril, and I was on it for 3 or 4 months before I started swelling up like a tick.

I didn't think to the BP medicine. I had been on it for months before a problem developed.

I still can't believe no one has ever been able to find Joan Gay Croft or Arthur Lloyd.

Wadada
There's so much evidence left behind on the crime scene, and the guy had such a distinct look I'm honestly surprised it's still a cold case.
I'd figured it must've been solved by now.

I have found Deloris' teacher. It's a crack in the case, 30+ years after the original episode aired. Strauss was actually her married surname (her first husband was the son of a senior naval officer), and it doesn't look like the marriage lasted very long. As of 2023-24, it appears that she is still alive, albeit, getting quite up there in age..and what a life she's had. She's spent her life living between New York, London, Paris, and Ireland. Madeline's father was a famed American pianist, and Madeline's second husband was a well-known Irish novelist, and is now deceased (probably the best of his time). Anyway, I will definitely share more details in the near future. I am currently trying to get a hold of Madeline, as well as Deloris Brooks. I have also sent a message tip to Unsolved.com Hoping to hear from them soon.

If Deloris Brooks’s illness (Reye’s Syndome) did not cause her to create new memories, and given that Madeline Strauss was a teacher in a public school (Decatur Junior High, Brooklyn, NYC), I would assume that there’d be records that be sourced and that Madeline Strauss could be tracked down.

There was something about this case that didn't ring true to me. As I remember, Ms. Strauss came from a wealthy family and lived with her father in an affluent NYC neighborhood. If they moved, wouldn't someone know where they went? I agree the school should have records on her employment and contact info.

Without a doubt Jay Durham, the biker who got run down by a trucker. Can't imagine how they couldn't narrow that down to at least a few suspects. Yes there are hundreds of thousands of truckers in the country but based on company logs and records from trucking companies they should have been able to narrow it down what truckers would have been in that area at that time, not to mention the fact the truck probably would have needed repairs. And only a limited number of places work on tractor trailers. It might take some time but its almost inconceivable they couldn't have at least narrowed that down to a few people.

Jennifer Pratt...We all know Curtis Croft knows who's responsible for the attack. I don't buy the whole, "I didn't get a good look at them" bu lls hit. UM proved the truck could not have been going more than, what was it, 15 mph? And after all of this time, the boys responsible for driving the truck and hitting her with the lumber didn't tell anyone what they did? The case is completely solvable. Someone just needs to stand up and say something.

I had initially also thought that Deloris had perhaps embellished or maybe even made up some false memories (since I couldn’t find a Madeline Strauss that had lived in NYC during the late 1950s or 60s. Then I found her. Her maiden name was not Strauss however she was in fact born in NYC. She really was an uptown girl, as Deloris puts it during the segment. She lived in a building on 46th street, not terribly far from Central Park (as I’ve gathered from the address used repeatedly by Madeline’s father during flight landings back in NYC, in the late 1950s. Madeline married a Strauss, back in 1953, but the wedding took place in France. The marriage didn’t last long. In fact, I found that by the time Deloris was leaving junior high, in 1964, Madeline had started the process to legally use her maiden name once again.

Angela Hammond, Wadada, Randall Utterback, Annie Laurie Hearin, and Deborah Poe come to mind. I'd say Lisa Bishop and the Freedon, but we're talking international waters here, so I'm not shocked that one is still open. Patricia Meehan and Kristi Krebs might have just died from exposure or natural causes, but I hope not.

I do see, in the updates featured on the FilmRise episodes, that several cases were solved after 20+ years, so there's always a chance.

Jennifer Pratt...We all know Curtis Croft knows who's responsible for the attack. I don't buy the whole, "I didn't get a good look at them" bu lls hit. UM proved the truck could not have been going more than, what was it, 15 mph? And after all of this time, the boys responsible for driving the truck and hitting her with the lumber didn't tell anyone what they did? The case is completely solvable. Someone just needs to stand up and say something.

I'm 100 percent in alignment with you.

Another case that comes to mind with the same theme of "nobody's talking" is Christy Nichols--everyone seems to know that her husband did it.

Angela Hammond, Wadada, Randall Utterback, Annie Laurie Hearin, and Deborah Poe come to mind. I'd say Lisa Bishop and the Freedon, but we're talking international waters here, so I'm not shocked that one is still open. Patricia Meehan and Kristi Krebs might have just died from exposure or natural causes, but I hope not.

I do see, in the updates featured on the FilmRise episodes, that several cases were solved after 20+ years, so there's always a chance.

Just some thoughts on a few of these.

The Freedon.. I have to believe that one is sitting on the bottom of the ocean down in the Caribbean or on the way there.

I don't buy into the sightings of the ship. Again.. Lisa Marie Kimmel situation.. I don't think the people saying they saw the ship are lying.. Just.. Mistaken. Likely not that they saw the ship, but WHEN they saw it.

As for the idea the ship would have been found by now if it sank.. They're finding all kinds of plane and shipwrecks in those waters, even now.

And.. This was back in.. 88 or 89. Most likely, this wouldn't happen today because, at least in theory, the ship would be required to have an EPIRB and, assuming it was in working condition, it should have alerted and led to a response..


The Wadada case.. In a way, i'm not overly surprised.. No one even knows if that is his real name and if it is, whether its a first or last name or a nickname or what. The surprising part is that he seems to have been so whacked out, either from drugs or mental illness, that you kinda think he wouldn't have had the faculties, mentally, to run. The problem is.. If he did.. With his language skills, he could pretty much go anywhere.

Randall Utterback.. Yeah, that one I don't have a whole lot of thoughts on. If he's still alive.. It's hard to believe he could 'blend in' or assume an identity for this long. But.. As we've seen, it can happen.

Jennifer Pratt...We all know Curtis Croft knows who's responsible for the attack. I don't buy the whole, "I didn't get a good look at them" bu lls hit. UM proved the truck could not have been going more than, what was it, 15 mph? And after all of this time, the boys responsible for driving the truck and hitting her with the lumber didn't tell anyone what they did? The case is completely solvable. Someone just needs to stand up and say something.

From what I understand, most of the town has a pretty good idea who did that and there was just never enough evidence to go to trial. The prime suspect who is believed to have thrown the board committed suicide in 1994. So that may explain why the matter is not being pursued as vigorously now though is probably no way to know for sure. The driver of the truck is supposedly alive though, but I think its entirely possible he may not have even known what they were gonna do. For all we know he could have slowed down the truck thinking they were just going to taunt or threaten Curtis. Of course that is just speculation on my part. And of course there was more than just one person in the back from what I understand. But its entirely possible not everyone in the truck knew what the killer was up to.

As for Curtis Croft denying he saw the killers, it is possible he could have been knocked unconscious before he saw them. But the fact that he apparently lied about how fast the truck was going doesn't bode well for that either. Assuming the experiment the authorities did was accurate.

I would imagine though its feasible the man who killed himself in 1994 could have done that. Imagine if he was targeting Curtis and not only failed to kill him but maimed Jenny for life that would probably be pretty taxing, assuming he had any decency or conscience at all. But then again his suicide might not have had anything to do with Jenny, might have just been the stress from fear of being caught, or something else altogether.

I sadly don't think a lot of these cases where a person wandered off are going to be solved and the elements are the reason why. These cases include:

Oded Gordon
Gordon Page
George Owens
Patricia Meehan
Lily Mae Huff
Keith Reinhard

Thanks for the update. Sounds like she was ahead of her time.

From what I understand, most of the town has a pretty good idea who did that and there was just never enough evidence to go to trial.

That makes it sound like the Ken Rex McElroy case out in Skidmore, MO.

Not a UM case, but on the off chance you're not familiar, McElroy was the "Town Bully" who was shot in front of the entire town and not a single person saw anything.

That makes it sound like the Ken Rex McElroy case out in Skidmore, MO.

Not a UM case, but on the off chance you're not familiar, McElroy was the "Town Bully" who was shot in front of the entire town and not a single person saw anything.

Oh yeah, the one they made the movie with Brian Dennehy about, back in '82 or so. Quite familiar with it.

I never thought of it as a parallel to this case though, so far as I know these guys weren't bullying the town into fear to the extent McElroy was bullying Skidmore. Although they could have been, we don't really know names or anything about them just reports and rumors on the official UM wiki page. From what I can gather just isn't enough proof to put anyone on trial.

i still lean towards Curtis Croft knowing something, the fact that he seems to have lied about how fast the truck was going is a little hard to get past.

Oh yeah, the one they made the movie with Brian Dennehy about, back in '82 or so. Quite familiar with it.

I never thought of it as a parallel to this case though, so far as I know these guys weren't bullying the town into fear to the extent McElroy was bullying Skidmore. Although they could have been, we don't really know names or anything about them just reports and rumors on the official UM wiki page. From what I can gather just isn't enough proof to put anyone on trial.

i still lean towards Curtis Croft knowing something, the fact that he seems to have lied about how fast the truck was going is a little hard to get past.

I'm just talking the whole "The whole town knows who did it" angle.

My dad lives out in St Joe, MO, where McElroy is buried. He's gone out to Skidmore as well.. He's a bit obsessed with the case.

I did go by the cemetery where McElroy is buried and see his grave.

I do see, in the updates featured on the FilmRise episodes, that several cases were solved after 20+ years, so there's always a chance.

Absolutely! The Sumter county does featured on UM in, I think, 1993, weren’t identified until 2021. Cases are still being solved. It’s a good feeling to know that people still care about many of the cases featured on UM and haven’t given up.

Absolutely! The Sumter county does featured on UM in, I think, 1993, weren’t identified until 2021. Cases are still being solved. It’s a good feeling to know that people still care about many of the cases featured on UM and haven’t given up.

The.. Oh what's the kids name.. It wasn't on UM but they did it on Buzzfeed Unsolved, which was the first time I had heard of the case..

Bobby Dunbar. Kid got eaten by gators in Lousiana over 100 years ago.. But they 'found' him a year later and returned him to his parents and nearly hanged the guy who 'kidnapped' him.

Honestly, I see some parallels between this case and the people who swear that Amy Bradley was abducted. They're so certain that boogeymen are involved that they'll go after innocent people. 80+ years later.. The truth finally came out.

A case I think should have been solved was Gary Simmons. The UM segment is a little confusing. It was explained that Tom Dixon was a member of the Appaloosa Association and was selling a horse for 30k. It also explains that an agent acting for the horse’s owner showed up to Simmon’s office but he was also called him Tom Dixon. So which is it? Was Dixon the owner of the horse or just an agent? If he was an agent, was the horse’s owner ever questioned? There are so many unanswered questions and holes in this story. I don’t understand why nobody really investigated it. I think it could have been solved had that happened.

I sadly don't think a lot of these cases where a person wandered off are going to be solved and the elements are the reason why. These cases include:

Oded Gordon
Gordon Page
George Owens
Patricia Meehan
Lily Mae Huff
Keith Reinhard

I agree. I wonder if Patricia Meehan was intoxicated or under some type of mental disorientation from a breakdown. She also could have been seriously injured in the accident, and we will never know. For Keith Reinhard, i guess it's possible that a hiker comes across his remains at some point.

Another disappearance that I don't think will be solved is Amy Bechtel. Although I think she was murdered.

The.. Oh what's the kids name.. It wasn't on UM but they did it on Buzzfeed Unsolved, which was the first time I had heard of the case..

Bobby Dunbar. Kid got eaten by gators in Lousiana over 100 years ago.. But they 'found' him a year later and returned him to his parents and nearly hanged the guy who 'kidnapped' him.

Honestly, I see some parallels between this case and the people who swear that Amy Bradley was abducted. They're so certain that boogeymen are involved that they'll go after innocent people. 80+ years later.. The truth finally came out.

I knew that name but I had to research a little and….. wow. That’s quite a story. I guess family members of the Dunbars are upset that the case was closed but I’d rather know if I am related or not in a case like that. Poor kids. I feel for them for different reasons.

I knew that name but I had to research a little and….. wow. That’s quite a story. I guess family members of the Dunbars are upset that the case was closed but I’d rather know if I am related or not in a case like that. Poor kid.

Which kid?

I mean, yeah, poor Bobby Dunbar who was likely eaten by a gator..

But.. as far as the other kid who 'became' Bobby Dunbar. Sadly.. From what I could tell.. It seems like he might have wound up with a better life with the Dunbars. Doesn't seem it was a bed of roses with his mother.

I think Susan Harrison's murder should've been solved.

I'm not a detective nor an attorney, but I think a strong circumstantial case could've been made against Jim Harrison.

I think Susan Harrison's murder should've been solved.

I'm not a detective nor an attorney, but I think a strong circumstantial case could've been made against Jim Harrison.

Circumstantial isn't good enough. If I were a prosecutor.. I probably wouldn't have brought charges there.

That being said.. I'm a tad surprised that in the intervening years, no DNA proof has been found.. But.. That may be because all involved are dead.

FWIW.. I'm not arguing with you at all on thinking he likely did it. Just saying.. The burden on proof and double jeopardy.. I wouldn't have brought charges.

Circumstantial isn't good enough. If I were a prosecutor.. I probably wouldn't have brought charges there.

That being said.. I'm a tad surprised that in the intervening years, no DNA proof has been found.. But.. That may be because all involved are dead.

FWIW.. I'm not arguing with you at all on thinking he likely did it. Just saying.. The burden on proof and double jeopardy.. I wouldn't have brought charges.

No worries. I think it's definitely on the fence. But there sure were a lot of police reports establishing there was a problem with domestic violence in that home. Maybe there were fears that filing prematurely would let Jim Harrison slip through their fingers. I dunno. Sure is a shame all around.

Which kid?

I mean, yeah, poor Bobby Dunbar who was likely eaten by a gator..

But.. as far as the other kid who 'became' Bobby Dunbar. Sadly.. From what I could tell.. It seems like he might have wound up with a better life with the Dunbars. Doesn't seem it was a bed of roses with his mother.

I’ll change it to poor kids. It was a very strange situation. I feel for the real Bobby Dunbar (Eaten by a gator?? Awful.) and the imposter who might not have understood everything going on. I do find it odd that the imposter kid didn’t speak up. I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not.

No worries. I think it's definitely on the fence. But there sure were a lot of police reports establishing there was a problem with domestic violence in that home. Maybe there were fears that filing prematurely would let Jim Harrison slip through their fingers. I dunno. Sure is a shame all around.

I honestly don't see any other viable solution.. It's just.. I look at things from a conviction standpoint. You have to remember that you get one shot.. More or less. If he's found not guilty.. That's it. Done. Game over. People tend to gloss over that fact in the rush..

You NEVER want that to happen.. So, it's better to wait. I also know the old saying of Justice Delayed is Justice Denied.. But.. I don't agree with that statement in this situation.

I do rather think if the husband hadn't died.. They very well might have retested some evidence with new methods and.. Might have found out it was him for sure. But.. Just imagine you put him on trial and a jury finds him not guilty.. THEN you find DNA evidence that shows he did it. Not a good situation. Now.. I'm sure with him dead there's a bigger name on line 2, so to speak and no rush to test any of the evidence they still might have.

I’ll change it to poor kids. It was a very strange situation. I feel for the real Bobby Dunbar (Eaten by a gator?? Awful.) and the imposter who might not have understood everything going on. I do find it odd that the imposter kid didn’t speak up. I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not.

The man who lived as Bobby Dunbar.. I can't speak for him, obviously, but.. He seemed to.. Just not want to know. Along with most of the rest of the Dunbar family.

It's a really weird case. I mean, even back then.. You just shake your head. The mother can't identify her own son?

Sal Guardado. He was dirt-poor, probably barely able to scrap together bus fare even if he did take any money from Sally's house. There was even an alleged sighting of him at a fast food restaurant in the area some time after he fled, so he probably didn't get very far for long. Unless maybe he was taken in by a street gang or something. Maybe he died while on the run, possibly related to other criminal activities and his remains either haven't been identified or even found.

Sal Guardado. He was dirt-poor, probably barely able to scrap together bus fare even if he did take any money from Sally's house. There was even an alleged sighting of him at a fast food restaurant in the area some time after he fled, so he probably didn't get very far for long. Unless maybe he was taken in by a street gang or something. Maybe he died while on the run, possibly related to other criminal activities and his remains either haven't been identified or even found.

I doubt I have to explain my feelings on 'eyewitness' sightings of people again..

if he made it to Mexico.. He wouldn't stand out at all, I don't think.. So.. that's kinda my assumption here.. He fled to Mexico, probably some remote area and.. Lived out his days. It's plausible he could still be alive, but.. I'd lean against believing that.

I doubt I have to explain my feelings on 'eyewitness' sightings of people again..

if he made it to Mexico.. He wouldn't stand out at all, I don't think.. So.. that's kinda my assumption here.. He fled to Mexico, probably some remote area and.. Lived out his days. It's plausible he could still be alive, but.. I'd lean against believing that.

I agree that he possibly fled to Mexico, but there have been many people identified in Mexico and extradited for crimes committed in America. So I am still a little surprised that he wasn't caught considering he was fully identified as a violent criminal.

I agree that he possibly fled to Mexico, but there have been many people identified in Mexico and extradited for crimes committed in America. So I am still a little surprised that he wasn't caught considering he was fully identified as a violent criminal.

There are some places in Mexico that are very remote and almost cut off from regular civilization. I was shocked to learn that Thayne Smika (who killed Robert Redford's soon to be son in law 40 years ago) reportedly lived in this coastal Mexican fishing village. It was only accessible by boat (a 30 minute ride from Puerto Vallarta) and didn't even have telephones until the 2000's! No telephones! I don't even think there were cars there. It's mind boggling. Apparently, the little community was discovered by a few Hollywood types and the scene changed. Smika fled and hasn't been seen since. He lived there for years without anyone making the connection. He would have stuck out as a white American in this small town.

Guardado would have fit much easier into any sort of Hispanic environment. It would be much easier for him to disappear, especially way back then. If memory serves correct, his crimes happened years prior to him being profiled on UM, so he had a healthy head start.

Guardado could have kept going south and ended up in another country.

There are some places in Mexico that are very remote and almost cut off from regular civilization. I was shocked to learn that Thayne Smika (who killed Robert Redford's soon to be son in law 40 years ago) reportedly lived in this coastal Mexican fishing village. It was only accessible by boat (a 30 minute ride from Puerto Vallarta) and didn't even have telephones until the 2000's! No telephones! I don't even think there were cars there. It's mind boggling. Apparently, the little community was discovered by a few Hollywood types and the scene changed. Smika fled and hasn't been seen since. He lived there for years without anyone making the connection. He would have stuck out as a white American in this small town.

Guardado would have fit much easier into any sort of Hispanic environment. It would be much easier for him to disappear, especially way back then. If memory serves correct, his crimes happened years prior to him being profiled on UM, so he had a healthy head start.

Guardado could have kept going south and ended up in another country.

true, and I wonder if he would have had the resources to go and survive somewhere isolated. But I do know that many people can live that way. I also think it would be easier to blend in somewhere like Mexico City where his presence would not be questioned. In a small village people would be wondering about him and questioning where he came from. Mexican nationals can also easily spot Americans of Mexican descent based on accent and style of speaking. Even in USA States like Texas and California the Spanish dialect and vocabulary changes depending on what part of the state you are in. I tend to think that small villages or towns will ask more questions than larger populated areas. So he probably had the best chance of not being recognized if he went somewhere extremely remote, extremely populated, or somewhere that he had family who could help him.

The Phillip Fraser case should have been solved. I would love to get my hands on the actual RCMP file. I find it hard to believe that nobody came forward about a noticeably odd man, who even gave the Women at the diner (which is in a remote area of Northern BC) the creeps.

One would think that the guy who dropped him off at the diner would have come forward with information. I'm pretty sure he was a transient working in the Yukon, considering he did not attempt to cross the American border, and burned the vehicle in the first city he came across (Prince George).

It's really a shame 24 hour surveillance video was not really a thing in 1988. The diner would have had it for certain, considering it is just in the middle of nowhere. The car wash in Prince George would have definitely had cameras.

At any rate, Unsolved Mysteries really messed up by showing the two sketches of the suspect, whom witnesses said looked the least like the suspect, and ignored the two sketches, which generated the most tips (Thanks again Unsolved Mysteries!). I'm pretty sure RCMP have narrowed down the list of suspects, considering it's extremely rare for a person to murder another to steal his vehicle and identity, and remain a law abiding citizen. I suspect the man responsible has a history of violence and mental health problems.

I’m always surprised the Richard Aderson road rage murder was never solved. I’m not going to say it “should” have been solved because that implies to me that it was malfeasance or incompetence on the part of law enforcement, which there isn’t any indication of. But, to have a description of the vehicle with NH plates as well as a good description of the suspect seems like it would have only been a matter of time before you eventually got the guy. I mean how many dark green jeep cherokees were there in NH in early 1997? Would have expected that to have been solved in 30 years. Unfortunately if it hasn’t been by now it probably won’t be

I’m always surprised the Richard Aderson road rage murder was never solved. I’m not going to say it “should” have been solved because that implies to me that it was malfeasance or incompetence on the part of law enforcement, which there isn’t any indication of. But, to have a description of the vehicle with NH plates as well as a good description of the suspect seems like it would have only been a matter of time before you eventually got the guy. I mean how many dark green jeep cherokees were there in NH in early 1997? Would have expected that to have been solved in 30 years. Unfortunately if it hasn’t been by now it probably won’t be

I don't fault you for the thought.. But.. I don't think it's quite that simple, either. First off, there's no real idea if the plates were legit or not. Second, there were a quarter million Jeep Cherokee's made in 1997. How popular was that vehicle in the northeast and 5 million other questions.. I'd still have to think there were several hundred registered in NH. And, of course, was it his vehicle?

The biggest problem tho.. At least the wiki description of the vehicle is as such..

The killer's vehicle is described as a late model 1997 Jeep Cherokee-type, sport utility vehicle, possibly green-colored

That's a whole lot different than "It WAS a 1997 Green Jeep Cherokee"

One would think.. Someone who does that.. You don't think it's a one off.. So, the fact that they never matched the bullet to a gun is a bit more surprising to me. Of course, we don't know what condition the bullet was in or if it was found, particularly. Could have been a through and through.

I'm with you that.. I'd really have expected it to be solved as well, but.. I disagree on at least some of the reasons. The sketch, to me, seems the biggest clue.. Pending on how accurate it is.

I also agree that it'll likely never be solved. The guy who shot him was in his 40's or 50's then, which would put him in his 70's or 80's now..

The Phillip Fraser case should have been solved. I would love to get my hands on the actual RCMP file. I find it hard to believe that nobody came forward about a noticeably odd man, who even gave the Women at the diner (which is in a remote area of Northern BC) the creeps.

One would think that the guy who dropped him off at the diner would have come forward with information. I'm pretty sure he was a transient working in the Yukon, considering he did not attempt to cross the American border, and burned the vehicle in the first city he came across (Prince George).

It's really a shame 24 hour surveillance video was not really a thing in 1988. The diner would have had it for certain, considering it is just in the middle of nowhere. The car wash in Prince George would have definitely had cameras.

At any rate, Unsolved Mysteries really messed up by showing the two sketches of the suspect, whom witnesses said looked the least like the suspect, and ignored the two sketches, which generated the most tips (Thanks again Unsolved Mysteries!). I'm pretty sure RCMP have narrowed down the list of suspects, considering it's extremely rare for a person to murder another to steal his vehicle and identity, and remain a law abiding citizen. I suspect the man responsible has a history of violence and mental health problems.

UM was an incredible show, but with flaws like any other. That's what drives many of us to distraction, just because there is nothing to compare with it today, and yet we know they dropped the ball sometimes.

I, too, noticed how the woman in the diner still seemed creeped out by Fraser.

Oliver Munson.

Jay Durham, the biker who got run down by a trucker and was crippled but survived. You have a limited amount of potential suspects due to it having to be a trucker, another trucker who stopped to help him clear the bike who is a potential witness, trucking companies keep close track of their drivers usually so there was only a limited number in the area at that time to narrow down, and the truck likely sustained some damage so would have to have been repaired, and even crosstalk over the CB radio. Yet no one was ever even caught or as far as we know there were never any concrete suspects.

I almost think the other trucker was involved somehow or this would have been solved and that guy would have come forward.

Jay Durham, the biker who got run down by a trucker and was crippled but survived. You have a limited amount of potential suspects due to it having to be a trucker, another trucker who stopped to help him clear the bike who is a potential witness, trucking companies keep close track of their drivers usually so there was only a limited number in the area at that time to narrow down, and the truck likely sustained some damage so would have to have been repaired, and even crosstalk over the CB radio. Yet no one was ever even caught or as far as we know there were never any concrete suspects.

I almost think the other trucker was involved somehow or this would have been solved and that guy would have come forward.

I agree with you regarding the trucker that helped him. One would think he would have heard of the story and come forward. Even the original trucker.. I could make the argument that he didn't realize that he hit a person.

Both truckers apparently went looking for someone.. I know Durham thought they were going to kill him, so, he hid.. I think it's at least plausible that neither trucker realized that a person was hit.

With all the notices posted in truck stops.. I find it.. Difficult to believe that neither of them realized what had happened. I could buy that the driver that hit him didn't come forward because he didn't want to get in trouble.. But.. The one who helped him?

Where I disagree with you.. We don't know if either of these truckers were long haul or local.. There's no description of either trailer, which, likely would give a company name of who they drove for. and.. Remember that this took place back in 1992.. Things were.. Different. There was no GPS tracking of the trucks or anything of that nature, so.. I tend to disagree that companies would know exactly where their drivers were then.

If no one has mentioned it, I would have to throw in Mabel Woods' dog kennel fire. I mean gosh how many people could that have been? She lived literally in the middle of nowhere and it had to be a local resident who knew about and was bothered by those dogs.

From what I can understand the neighbors questioned acted like they didn't even know she lived there, but obviously someone did so someone was lying.

Whoever did that, I have to imagine they were probably not a nice person in their everyday life, and I doubt it was the only mean thing they ever did either. Sophisticated criminals good at fooling people don't bother with an old lady and dogs in the middle of nowhere. This guy was the typical backwoods butthole who threatens people with a shotgun for turning in his driveway or something probably in the mold of a Frank Casteel. Probably abuses his family too if I had to venture a guess.

I still think to this day the local law enforcement and other locals had an idea who did that and just never could prove it. Apparently Mabel went on raising dogs and the harassment stopped, leads me to think somebody was worried about getting caught and had been questioned or was under scrutiny. Not enough for charges but enough to where they became the community boogeyman and were under scrutiny. And if you talked to the right people you'd find out. Just my opinion though.

If no one has mentioned it, I would have to throw in Mabel Woods' dog kennel fire. I mean gosh how many people could that have been? She lived literally in the middle of nowhere and it had to be a local resident who knew about and was bothered by those dogs.

From what I can understand the neighbors questioned acted like they didn't even know she lived there, but obviously someone did so someone was lying.

Whoever did that, I have to imagine they were probably not a nice person in their everyday life, and I doubt it was the only mean thing they ever did either. Sophisticated criminals good at fooling people don't bother with an old lady and dogs in the middle of nowhere. This guy was the typical backwoods butthole who threatens people with a shotgun for turning in his driveway or something probably in the mold of a Frank Casteel. Probably abuses his family too if I had to venture a guess.

I still think to this day the local law enforcement and other locals had an idea who did that and just never could prove it. Apparently Mabel went on raising dogs and the harassment stopped, leads me to think somebody was worried about getting caught and had been questioned or was under scrutiny. Not enough for charges but enough to where they became the community boogeyman and were under scrutiny. And if you talked to the right people you'd find out. Just my opinion though.

I 100% agree on all counts.

Wendy Camp's case. How they didn't nail Beverly Noe right away is beyond me.

Wendy Camp's case. How they didn't nail Beverly Noe right away is beyond me.

People have been convicted on less. But Beverly Noe and her stupid mother had decades of history doing horrible crimes and somehow got released from prison.

Maybe it’s an Oklahoma thing? This is the same state that released Paul Stamper on parole after just 8 years in prison despite kidnapping and attempted murder. That freak has been a free man since 2002.

Oliver Munson.

that's very sad because don't we know who the perpetrator was but allegedly couldn't prove it?

People have been convicted on less. But Beverly Noe and her stupid mother had decades of history doing horrible crimes and somehow got released from prison.

Maybe it’s an Oklahoma thing? This is the same state that released Paul Stamper on parole after just 8 years in prison despite kidnapping and attempted murder. That freak has been a free man since 2002.

gross, I didn't know that about Stamper. It seemed like one of the more memorable updates when he was caught. I recently came across a "he has since been released" update for someone that was a convicted murderer. I can't remember who it was, but it was my first time seeing it. Now I have to try to find it.

EDIT: it was Albert Leon Fletcher. He was initially convicted of a life sentence but after appeal his conviction was lowered from first degree murder to 2nd degree murder and he did his time and got released.

I think one of the cases that I always think about is Patsy Wright. Now I feel like it will never be solved. but 10-20 years ago I thought that there was hope for it because it felt like someone would come forward with a new lead.

Sue Taraskiewicz is another one that I thought would have been solved by now. Add to that Su-Ya Kim and Matt Flores.

Las Cruces Bowling Alley

Las Cruces Bowling Alley

I've always suspected the killers are in Mexico (or fled to and stayed there for a long time) and that's why they were never caught. Basing this on a few factors:

1) The proximity of Las Cruces to the Mexican border

2) Eyewitness descriptions of the killers from the survivors and the witness in the parking lot who described them

Maybe these guys figured it would be an easy robbery, especially if they thought they could eliminate all eyewitnesses. Once they realized there were survivors, they may have stayed on the other side of the border for a long time to avoid being identified. According to wiki, the city was screened for those leaving within an hour of the shooting, but they may have been able to slip away well before then.

This crime really makes me sick. What UM doesn't mention is that these horrible perpetrators also set fire in the same room where the victims were.

I've always suspected the killers are in Mexico (or fled to and stayed there for a long time) and that's why they were never caught. Basing this on a few factors:

1) The proximity of Las Cruces to the Mexican border

2) Eyewitness descriptions of the killers from the survivors and the witness in the parking lot who described them

Maybe these guys figured it would be an easy robbery, especially if they thought they could eliminate all eyewitnesses. Once they realized there were survivors, they may have stayed on the other side of the border for a long time to avoid being identified. According to wiki, the city was screened for those leaving within an hour of the shooting, but they may have been able to slip away well before then.

This crime really makes me sick. What UM doesn't mention is that these horrible perpetrators also set fire in the same room where the victims were.
Same, the last time I watched the segment I paid a lot closer attention to more details that I previously did not know. It is really sickening.
that could be true about them either fleeing to Mexico or being Mexican nationals. If they planned out the crime and left straight to Mexico they may have gotten away undetected. or they waited a while and then left the area after they realized there were survivors and witnesses that gave their description.

I think the only lead in the case was the eyewitness testimony? If that is the case, it may never be solved. I thought early on that there was a chance because of the good description and the notoriety of the crime.

Mabel Woods
It had to have been someone who lived close by.

Mabel Woods
It had to have been someone who lived close by.

Yes, because they once sent her a note Quiet or Die so it sounds like a person who hated the sounds of barking dogs. Somebody knows but nobody is telling.

Yes, because they once sent her a note Quiet or Die so it sounds like a person who hated the sounds of barking dogs. Somebody knows but nobody is telling.

I don't think its so much they aren't telling, its probably that no one can prove it. After all you can't finger people on suspicions alone.

But Mabel God bless her kept on raising dogs, and from what I've read the harassment stopped. About the lone bright spot in this story. That leads me to think someone may very well have been under a cloud of suspicion and was being closely watched, to the point they were afraid to try anything again. Might have even been forced to leave the area realizing they went to far. Burning up a bunch of dogs wins you no friends in a community, and if people even thought someone did it they probably did all they could to make this guy's life a living hell. You might have even had a Skidmore Missouri situation happen if anyone could prove it. Nobody likes a dog killer.

Yes, because they once sent her a note Quiet or Die so it sounds like a person who hated the sounds of barking dogs. Somebody knows but nobody is telling.

Quiet or Die. That one still makes me so mad. I can't watch that segment again. WTF is wrong with people?

Quiet or Die. That one still makes me so mad. I can't watch that segment again. WTF is wrong with people?

I'm the same way, I can't watch that one either. And it makes you angry cause you know that had to be a neighbor of Mabel. How many frieking people could have lived within earshot of those dogs? Either the local sheriffs dept has some idea who did that and just can't prove it, or they are the most incompetent in the world. But all it says on the site is that they followed several leads but all were dead ends. I'm betting that involved just asking all the neighbors hey man you know anything about this, they say no didn't even know she was back there, and that was the end of it.

And the neighbors apparently stated they didn't even know Mabel was back there. Someone is obviously full of it, somebody had to know.

They even had plaster cases of tire tracks taken from the scene, infuriating they couldn't match that with someone.

I'm the same way, I can't watch that one either. And it makes you angry cause you know that had to be a neighbor of Mabel. How many frieking people could have lived within earshot of those dogs? Either the local sheriffs dept has some idea who did that and just can't prove it, or they are the most incompetent in the world. But all it says on the site is that they followed several leads but all were dead ends. I'm betting that involved just asking all the neighbors hey man you know anything about this, they say no didn't even know she was back there, and that was the end of it.

And the neighbors apparently stated they didn't even know Mabel was back there. Someone is obviously full of it, somebody had to know.

They even had plaster cases of tire tracks taken from the scene, infuriating they couldn't match that with someone.

Neighbors are not always your friends. There are ID network shows about bad neighbors. My family got targeted by neighbors over something truly ridiculous that made life very difficult for us. But nothing like the kennel fire. Whoever was behind it has a special spot reserved in Hell. Which, fittingly, is fiery.

I'm the same way, I can't watch that one either. And it makes you angry cause you know that had to be a neighbor of Mabel. How many frieking people could have lived within earshot of those dogs? Either the local sheriffs dept has some idea who did that and just can't prove it, or they are the most incompetent in the world. But all it says on the site is that they followed several leads but all were dead ends. I'm betting that involved just asking all the neighbors hey man you know anything about this, they say no didn't even know she was back there, and that was the end of it.

And the neighbors apparently stated they didn't even know Mabel was back there. Someone is obviously full of it, somebody had to know.

They even had plaster cases of tire tracks taken from the scene, infuriating they couldn't match that with someone.
it's pretty clear to me that someone did this over noise. at night sound travels far distances because of lack of daytime ambient noise and weather. I worked on fighter airplanes for many years. From 1-2 miles away at night I used to be able to hear engines start for the planes that I worked on. It would wake me up because I would be like, damn they are still not done with that jet? people say, well planes are loud. yes they are, but my point is that in the daytime you can't hear them from that distance if it is just a single aircraft starting at idle. I could hear the mini generators at night as well and they are much smaller and quieter than an aircraft generator.

For a more laymen example I would suggest thinking of a train horn. I can hear the train overnight that is about 3 miles from my house. I can't hear it during the day.

it's pretty clear to me that someone did this over noise. at night sound travels far distances because of lack of daytime ambient noise and weather. I worked on fighter airplanes for many years. From 1-2 miles away at night I used to be able to hear engines start for the planes that I worked on. It would wake me up because I would be like, damn they are still not done with that jet? people say, well planes are loud. yes they are, but my point is that in the daytime you can't hear them from that distance if it is just a single aircraft starting at idle. I could hear the mini generators at night as well and they are much smaller and quieter than an aircraft generator.

For a more laymen example I would suggest thinking of a train horn. I can hear the train overnight that is about 3 miles from my house. I can't hear it during the day.

Back int he 90's, my mother and stepfather worked on aircraft at Manassas airport in Virginia.. They'd pull a plane out and have to run up the engine.. Now.. Normally, this was all done during daylight hours, but.. Every now and again.. You don't finish until late and want to at least do a brief check at 8 or 9pm.

A guy built a house like RIGHT at the end of the runway. Right in line with it.. Just off the airport property.. He'd call and complain every time. Finally, they asked if he'd prefer an airplane in his living room..

A year or two later.. A plane actually crashed into the guy's house. Wasn't one that had been worked on, just.. I think it was pilot error or something.

The house has since been razed and the property is part of the airport now.

Back int he 90's, my mother and stepfather worked on aircraft at Manassas airport in Virginia.. They'd pull a plane out and have to run up the engine.. Now.. Normally, this was all done during daylight hours, but.. Every now and again.. You don't finish until late and want to at least do a brief check at 8 or 9pm.

A guy built a house like RIGHT at the end of the runway. Right in line with it.. Just off the airport property.. He'd call and complain every time. Finally, they asked if he'd prefer an airplane in his living room..

A year or two later.. A plane actually crashed into the guy's house. Wasn't one that had been worked on, just.. I think it was pilot error or something.

The house has since been razed and the property is part of the airport now.
Yeah living near an airport isn’t so great. I thought I got away from it all when I retired, but the flightpath approach to San Antonio goes over my house even though I’m 35-40 miles from the airport. I can hear the engines throttling back all the time. It’s not so bad just a funny reminder of my old life. And living near an Air Force base is probably worse because of the louder jet noise from fighters. That’s why you often see that there are bad neighborhoods near Air Force bases. But we do have rules about running jets beyond idle after dark. And we have buildings where we can take our jets to run them at full burner. They are called hush houses.