This is an interesting subject I would like to bring up.

In her penultimate episode, "Higher Anxiety", she was sitting on the couch with Carl, Harriette and Richie, then Urkel sat down, pushing her off. Also, it was mainly because of Urkel that she was removed from the show.

If you're not sure what I'm talking about, here's a clip of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE8oOKKRIXc&t=71s

What do you think?

What do I think? I think you're wrong, because Judy wasn't removed from the show because of Steve. She had to leave the show because the writers simply didn't know what to do with the poor thing anymore. And it had nothing to do with Steve, because there was still room for secondary characters like Lt Murtaugh and Waldo and Maxine.

Yeah, I heard about that, but it would be hard to believe that Urkel wasn't at least a contributing factor to it.

This is an interesting subject I would like to bring up.

In her penultimate episode, "Higher Anxiety", she was sitting on the couch with Carl, Harriette and Richie, then Urkel sat down, pushing her off. Also, it was mainly because of Urkel that she was removed from the show.

If you're not sure what I'm talking about, here's a clip of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE8oOKKRIXc&t=71s

What do you think?

Hey Superswiper,

That scene certainly does parallel what happened to poor Judy: as Urkel took up center stage, there was less and less room for the family that had once "mattered".

It does feel like foreshadowing.

And of course, the old chestnut has been made that "the writers couldn't think of anything for Judy to do". That excuse is lame, and of course ignores the other characters' parts, most of whose roles were whittled down to nothing. Who can't think of something for a thirteen-year old to do? Did none of the writers have children? I find that difficult to swallow.

That poor little girl wound up doing porn for awhile.

Did they really have to crush her heart like that by pretending that her character never even existed?

Heartless producers. :(

Yeah, I heard about that, but it would be hard to believe that Urkel wasn't at least a contributing factor to it.
Why would he be? Like I said, there was room for plenty of other characters. Waldo, Maxine, Lt Murtaugh, Myra, 3J, Greta and Curtis come to mind. Even a few relatively minor characters like Weasel and Cassie Lynn were given more personality than Judy was. And they all were given some spotlight on the show, with Steve or without him. Judy though was considered dead weight by the writers already from around the 2nd season, and it had nothing to do with Steve.

That scene certainly does parallel what happened to poor Judy: as Urkel took up center stage, there was less and less room for the family that had once "mattered".
That is not true. Even in the last season, there would be two different plotlines going in most epsiodes. Which means that many different characters could have some spotlight.

And of course, the old chestnut has been made that "the writers couldn't think of anything for Judy to do". That excuse is lame, and of course ignores the other characters' parts, most of whose roles were whittled down to nothing.
Excuse me, but which other characters are you thinking about?

Who can't think of something for a thirteen-year old to do? Did none of the writers have children? I find that difficult to swallow.
A 13-year-old is almost still a pre-teen, and it seems like pre-teens can be difficult for a sitcom writer to handle. They are too old to get "cute little precocious kid" plots, and too young to get a more mature teenage plots about dating or such things. So that would have put poor Judy in a limbo, as far as the writers were concerned. And it made them simply give up on her, so they could focus on what they would have seen as more interesting characters.

That poor little girl wound up doing porn for awhile.

Did they really have to crush her heart like that by pretending that her character never even existed?

Heartless producers. :(
Really though, it is hardly like the producers of "Family Matters" forced Jaimee to do drugs and porn. As soon as they had gotten rid of her, she was no longer their responsibilty. I would rather put some blame on her parents, who managed to steal all her money.

Why would he be? Like I said, there was room for plenty of other characters. Waldo, Maxine, Lt Murtaugh, Myra, 3J, Greta and Curtis come to mind. Even a few relatively minor characters like Weasel and Cassie Lynn were given more personality than Judy was. And they all were given some spotlight on the show, with Steve or without him. Judy though was considered dead weight by the writers already from around the 2nd season, and it had nothing to do with Steve.

Well, if you watch the 1st season again, you should notice that her most prominence was during the pre-Urkel days. Once Steve came into the picture, her role would increasingly diminish, before disappearing altogether. They could have given Judy a bigger role, but they chose not to.

That is not true. Even in the last season, there would be two different plotlines going in most epsiodes. Which means that many different characters could have some spotlight.


Excuse me, but which other characters are you thinking about?


A 13-year-old is almost still a pre-teen, and it seems like pre-teens can be difficult for a sitcom writer to handle. They are too old to get "cute little precocious kid" plots, and too young to get a more mature teenage plots about dating or such things. So that would have put poor Judy in a limbo, as far as the writers were concerned. And it made them simply give up on her, so they could focus on what they would have seen as more interesting characters.

I think what he means is that Steve (along with whichever family member involved) usually got the A-plot, while another family member(s) got the B-plot. It should the other way around, because Steve is not part of the main family. Like in the first season after his introduction, there were like only three episodes focused on him in that season. In the rest, the Winslow family were the focus.

Well, if you watch the 1st season again, you should notice that her most prominence was during the pre-Urkel days. Once Steve came into the picture, her role would increasingly diminish, before disappearing altogether. They could have given Judy a bigger role, but they chose not to.


Exactly. They could have done anything with the character, but they instead neglected her. The whole Winslow family came to matter less and less as the show went along, as more and more focus was given to Steve/Stefan/Myrtle/whatever.


Steve (along with whichever family member involved) usually got the A-plot, while another family member(s) got the B-plot. It should the other way around, because Steve is not part of the main family. Like in the first season after his introduction, there were like only three episodes focused on him in that season. In the rest, the Winslow family were the focus.

Yep. But the family mattered less and less on a show called "Family Matters". By the end, the family didn't even remember they'd had a daughter named Judy. That is just plain creepy.

Well, if you watch the 1st season again, you should notice that her most prominence was during the pre-Urkel days. Once Steve came into the picture, her role would increasingly diminish, before disappearing altogether. They could have given Judy a bigger role, but they chose not to.
And yet, they found roles for several other characters. Just look at Waldo, Maxine, Lieutenant Murtaugh, Myra, 3J and Greta. Or even a few minor characters like Weasel and Cassie Lynn. Steve is not the reason why Judy was written out. The writers had simply come to find her boring and eventually decided to get rid of her.

I think what he means is that Steve (along with whichever family member involved) usually got the A-plot, while another family member(s) got the B-plot. It should the other way around, because Steve is not part of the main family. Like in the first season after his introduction, there were like only three episodes focused on him in that season. In the rest, the Winslow family were the focus.
Carl and Harriette and Eddy and Laura always had a lot of focus.

I would say Judy had a few episodes of focus, or atleast a few gags in episodes. These are ones that stick out to me:

Season 1:
Two Income Family- Asks Laura for answers on her multiplication tables. Helps Rachel and Laura stuff envelopes to earn extra cash, later tells Carl their work.

Short Story- Gets mad Laura wont let her pass out mail to the adults, then mad about being portrayed as whiny in Rachel's book, helps Rachel see how she and Harriette are acting silly fighting by letting Laura yell at her for interrupting

Rachel's First Date- Breaks Girl Scout cookie selling record, sings with Laura to distract Allen

Straight A's- Mocks Rachel for coloring outside the lines, gets 10 bucks for 2 A's and declares that she's rich

The Quilt- Helps Laura put the garage sale together and learns selling techniques, quits when she is forced to wave people inside while its raining and giving her most memorable line, "I'm wet, I'm cold, and I'm cranky. Don't mess with me!"

Man's Best Friend- Big part of getting them to keep the dog, helps hide it from Carl, begs him to let them keep it

Baker's Dozen- Reluctant to sample Carl's tarts, excited when they want to sell them. Helps with baking them until she gets a stomach ache

The Party- Continued gag of her asking Eddie for money to not tell Carl, and Harriette about the party. Takes photos for blackmail.

The Big Fix- Makes a pioneer diorama. She and Mother Winslow mock Rachel's log cabin.

Sitting Pretty- Laura's assistant with the babysitting business, in charge of finding people to babysit, helps Laura when she has all the kids come to the Winslow's house.

The Candidate- Gag of saying her multiplication tables aloud while Laura's trying to study.

Season 2:
Torn Between Two Lovers- Gag of spelling zucchini wrong, Harriette uses as an excuse for her to leave while Rachel talks about her date.

Fast Eddie Winslow- Plotline of not doing her book report and will get a D in English. Her D grade mentioned by the pool shark's goon when letting Eddie know they're keeping track of him. Harriette gets her to want to read Swiss Family Robinson by describing the plot.

Have Yourself A Very Winslow Christmas- Gag of asking for a CD player

Ice Station Winslow- Plotline of being upset that Richie is getting attention even though she got an A in spelling. Harriette and Rachel discuss her ripping the beak off Richie's penguin costume. Talks to Laura about the perks of not being the youngest.

Taking Credit- Main plot of Richie not giving her credit for the cake they made which inspires Rachel to tell them other stories about sharing credit.

Skip To My Lieu- Cut gag of her not seeking Richie while playing hide and seek, Ridchie decides to let her hide and not seek her after.

The Good The Bad and The Urkel- Gag of she and Laura trying on Rachel's clothes and Harriette not wanting them to dress in public like that. Used in Carl's old west dream, dressing like "painted women" as Harriette calls them.

Season 3:
Citizen's Court- Fights with Richie over whether Carl will go to jail, Rachel tells them to stop fighting like adults.

Old And Alone- She and Richie are still short 75 years later because they didnt eat their vegetables and stayed up past their bed time.

Food, Lies, And A Videotape- Assists Richie using Carl's video camera to spy on Eddie's date to send to "America's Yuckiest Home Videos". Tells Richie she doesn't know him when he breaks the camera.

Woman Of The People- Answers the door where the elderly neighbor asks to talk to Carl, she screams for him which makes the neighbor sarcastically say, "Thanks dear..."

Season 4-
Just One Date- Gag of showing Carl his old report card so hers doesn't seem bad in comparison with Mother Winslow's help.

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad House- Part of the reason Harriette goes on strike from not straightening up the kitchen like she asked her to, to needing help on her science project. Later answers the door with Richie where she mentions they've been eating candy for dinner.

A Thought In The Dark- Ruins Hariette's sequin dress and begs Carl to cover for her, later when Harriette helps Eddie she brings up this incident of him helping Judy the same way.

Double post

This only makes me wonder whatever became of the original actress from the very first episode. At least she was kicked to the curb quickly and not strung along as bad as Jaimiee was.

God bless you and both girls always!!!

Holly

I would say Judy had a few episodes of focus, or atleast a few gags in episodes. These are ones that stick out to me:

Season 1:
Two Income Family- Asks Laura for answers on her multiplication tables. Helps Rachel and Laura stuff envelopes to earn extra cash, later tells Carl their work.

Short Story- Gets mad Laura wont let her pass out mail to the adults, then mad about being portrayed as whiny in Rachel's book, helps Rachel see how she and Harriette are acting silly fighting by letting Laura yell at her for interrupting

Rachel's First Date- Breaks Girl Scout cookie selling record, sings with Laura to distract Allen

Straight A's- Mocks Rachel for coloring outside the lines, gets 10 bucks for 2 A's and declares that she's rich

The Quilt- Helps Laura put the garage sale together and learns selling techniques, quits when she is forced to wave people inside while its raining and giving her most memorable line, "I'm wet, I'm cold, and I'm cranky. Don't mess with me!"

Man's Best Friend- Big part of getting them to keep the dog, helps hide it from Carl, begs him to let them keep it

Baker's Dozen- Reluctant to sample Carl's tarts, excited when they want to sell them. Helps with baking them until she gets a stomach ache

The Party- Continued gag of her asking Eddie for money to not tell Carl, and Harriette about the party. Takes photos for blackmail.

The Big Fix- Makes a pioneer diorama. She and Mother Winslow mock Rachel's log cabin.

Sitting Pretty- Laura's assistant with the babysitting business, in charge of finding people to babysit, helps Laura when she has all the kids come to the Winslow's house.

The Candidate- Gag of saying her multiplication tables aloud while Laura's trying to study.

Season 2:
Torn Between Two Lovers- Gag of spelling zucchini wrong, Harriette uses as an excuse for her to leave while Rachel talks about her date.

Fast Eddie Winslow- Plotline of not doing her book report and will get a D in English. Her D grade mentioned by the pool shark's goon when letting Eddie know they're keeping track of him. Harriette gets her to want to read Swiss Family Robinson by describing the plot.

Have Yourself A Very Winslow Christmas- Gag of asking for a CD player

Ice Station Winslow- Plotline of being upset that Richie is getting attention even though she got an A in spelling. Harriette and Rachel discuss her ripping the beak off Richie's penguin costume. Talks to Laura about the perks of not being the youngest.

Taking Credit- Main plot of Richie not giving her credit for the cake they made which inspires Rachel to tell them other stories about sharing credit.

Skip To My Lieu- Cut gag of her not seeking Richie while playing hide and seek, Ridchie decides to let her hide and not seek her after.

The Good The Bad and The Urkel- Gag of she and Laura trying on Rachel's clothes and Harriette not wanting them to dress in public like that. Used in Carl's old west dream, dressing like "painted women" as Harriette calls them.

Season 3:
Citizen's Court- Fights with Richie over whether Carl will go to jail, Rachel tells them to stop fighting like adults.

Old And Alone- She and Richie are still short 75 years later because they didnt eat their vegetables and stayed up past their bed time.

Food, Lies, And A Videotape- Assists Richie using Carl's video camera to spy on Eddie's date to send to "America's Yuckiest Home Videos". Tells Richie she doesn't know him when he breaks the camera.

Woman Of The People- Answers the door where the elderly neighbor asks to talk to Carl, she screams for him which makes the neighbor sarcastically say, "Thanks dear..."

Season 4-
Just One Date- Gag of showing Carl his old report card so hers doesn't seem bad in comparison with Mother Winslow's help.

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad House- Part of the reason Harriette goes on strike from not straightening up the kitchen like she asked her to, to needing help on her science project. Later answers the door with Richie where she mentions they've been eating candy for dinner.

A Thought In The Dark- Ruins Hariette's sequin dress and begs Carl to cover for her, later when Harriette helps Eddie she brings up this incident of him helping Judy the same way.

Lorimar, great compilation of Judy moments! :)

Lorimar, great compilation of Judy moments! :)

Thank you! I took note of her scenes. ;)

I would say Judy had a few episodes of focus, or atleast a few gags in episodes. These are ones that stick out to me:

Season 1:
Two Income Family- Asks Laura for answers on her multiplication tables. Helps Rachel and Laura stuff envelopes to earn extra cash, later tells Carl their work.

Short Story- Gets mad Laura wont let her pass out mail to the adults, then mad about being portrayed as whiny in Rachel's book, helps Rachel see how she and Harriette are acting silly fighting by letting Laura yell at her for interrupting

Rachel's First Date- Breaks Girl Scout cookie selling record, sings with Laura to distract Allen

Straight A's- Mocks Rachel for coloring outside the lines, gets 10 bucks for 2 A's and declares that she's rich

The Quilt- Helps Laura put the garage sale together and learns selling techniques, quits when she is forced to wave people inside while its raining and giving her most memorable line, "I'm wet, I'm cold, and I'm cranky. Don't mess with me!"

Man's Best Friend- Big part of getting them to keep the dog, helps hide it from Carl, begs him to let them keep it

Baker's Dozen- Reluctant to sample Carl's tarts, excited when they want to sell them. Helps with baking them until she gets a stomach ache

The Party- Continued gag of her asking Eddie for money to not tell Carl, and Harriette about the party. Takes photos for blackmail.

The Big Fix- Makes a pioneer diorama. She and Mother Winslow mock Rachel's log cabin.

Sitting Pretty- Laura's assistant with the babysitting business, in charge of finding people to babysit, helps Laura when she has all the kids come to the Winslow's house.

The Candidate- Gag of saying her multiplication tables aloud while Laura's trying to study.

Season 2:
Torn Between Two Lovers- Gag of spelling zucchini wrong, Harriette uses as an excuse for her to leave while Rachel talks about her date.

Fast Eddie Winslow- Plotline of not doing her book report and will get a D in English. Her D grade mentioned by the pool shark's goon when letting Eddie know they're keeping track of him. Harriette gets her to want to read Swiss Family Robinson by describing the plot.

Have Yourself A Very Winslow Christmas- Gag of asking for a CD player

Ice Station Winslow- Plotline of being upset that Richie is getting attention even though she got an A in spelling. Harriette and Rachel discuss her ripping the beak off Richie's penguin costume. Talks to Laura about the perks of not being the youngest.

Taking Credit- Main plot of Richie not giving her credit for the cake they made which inspires Rachel to tell them other stories about sharing credit.

Skip To My Lieu- Cut gag of her not seeking Richie while playing hide and seek, Ridchie decides to let her hide and not seek her after.

The Good The Bad and The Urkel- Gag of she and Laura trying on Rachel's clothes and Harriette not wanting them to dress in public like that. Used in Carl's old west dream, dressing like "painted women" as Harriette calls them.

Season 3:
Citizen's Court- Fights with Richie over whether Carl will go to jail, Rachel tells them to stop fighting like adults.

Old And Alone- She and Richie are still short 75 years later because they didnt eat their vegetables and stayed up past their bed time.

Food, Lies, And A Videotape- Assists Richie using Carl's video camera to spy on Eddie's date to send to "America's Yuckiest Home Videos". Tells Richie she doesn't know him when he breaks the camera.

Woman Of The People- Answers the door where the elderly neighbor asks to talk to Carl, she screams for him which makes the neighbor sarcastically say, "Thanks dear..."

Season 4-
Just One Date- Gag of showing Carl his old report card so hers doesn't seem bad in comparison with Mother Winslow's help.

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad House- Part of the reason Harriette goes on strike from not straightening up the kitchen like she asked her to, to needing help on her science project. Later answers the door with Richie where she mentions they've been eating candy for dinner.

A Thought In The Dark- Ruins Hariette's sequin dress and begs Carl to cover for her, later when Harriette helps Eddie she brings up this incident of him helping Judy the same way.

She's never had a single episode focused on her though, has she? Even Richie and Estelle has had episodes focused around them (one of them notably being Judy's final episode, in Estelle's case). Those all seem to amount to sub-plots.

Either way, that's a useful list for those who want to see Judy in the show.

She's never had a single episode focused on her though, has she? Even Richie and Estelle has had episodes focused around them (one of them notably being Judy's final episode, in Estelle's case). Those all seem to amount to sub-plots.

Either way, that's a useful list for those who want to see Judy in the show.

No she didnt have a main plot. The closest to one was Taking Credit but it was just a tool to flashback to other stories. Ice Station Winslow was probably her most prominent plot.

Furthermore, it is very obvious in retrospect that Judy got less and less to do as the seasons went by. Just look at that list and compare! Even when it comes to getting a subplot and some short gag or two (and she would never get more than that ever), she was given the most to do during the 1rst season. And by the 4th season, she was pretty much ignored by the writers.

Furthermore, it is clear that Judy got less and less to do as the years went by. Just look at that list. Even when it comes to subplots and short gags (and she would never get more than that), she was given the most to do in the 1rst season. By the 4th season, she was pretty much ignored by the writers.
Yep, very sad

No she didnt have a main plot. The closest to one was Taking Credit but it was just a tool to flashback to other stories. Ice Station Winslow was probably her most prominent plot.

You know, I might want to compile a list of episodes where Steve (or anyone played by Jaleel White) isn't the main focus. Believe it or not, they do exist after Season 1.

You know, I might want to compile a list of episodes where Steve (or anyone played by Jaleel White) isn't the main focus. Believe it or not, they do exist after Season 1.

Yes they’re far and few between though

Honestly though, I don't believe that it's fair to say that Jaleel White's characters almost always were the main focus. There were usually two plotlines in the same episode, which were mostly supposed to be equally important (even if more people have come to remember Jaleel's plotlines than the other ones). But even so: there were at least two 2nd season episodes, where Steve only played a very small part in the plot.
* "Son": It is mainly about how Eddy losing a screwdriver escalates into an ugly quarrel between him and Carl. Steve is present in a few scenes, but is not the focus of the plot.
* "Finding the Words": It is mainly about how Harriette's and Rachel's father suddenly turns out to be alive and wants to get to know his daughters and grandkids. Again, Steve is present for just a few scenes and isn't the focus of the plot.

And even as far as later seasons go, there were a few episodes without Steve (or any other Jaleel character) as the main focus.
* "Tips for a better life": While there is a subplot about Stephan playing saxophone at a coffee house, it is mainly about Eddy getting drunk at a party and Carl threatening to throw him out of the house.
* "Twinkle Toes Faldo": It is about Waldo enrolling in a tap dancing class, and Carl not being able to afford letting Laura attend Harward. As far as I can tell, Steve seems to be relatively out of focus here.
* "Love Trangle": It is mainly about Laura and Maxine fighting when Maxine starts dating Laura's ex-boyfriend Curtis, and Carl thinking that Estelle is too lenient with the kids while she's babysitting them. And yet again, Steve seems to not be in focus here either.

Flashpants he wasn't involved in the plot either, it felt like a season 1 episode almost.

I just compiled a whole list of episodes of Season 2 where Steve isn't the main focus. I posted it in the more appropriate there over here: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=5400207#post5400207