Ready...Set...GO !!! Get your DVR's programmed.
Tomorrow morning ME-TV begins airing Season 11 and hopefully continuing on through Season 12. DECADES aired a few of the very early Season 11 episodes last summer, but I don't recall the last time S11 & S12 aired in their entirety. TV Land & Hallmark/Odyssey both had runs of them years ago. Thank you to ME-TV for having "My Three Sons" on your schedule for this past year, beginning with the B&W episodes, and please continue through the end of S12. Also, a huge thanks to Dish Network for FINALLY adding ME-TV to your channel line-up. Here comes "Polly" . . .

Interesting clip. The first half of season 11 has been shown more often (since it was part of the syndication package many years ago) than the second half, and season 12. The first half of season 11 has been on TV Land, and the second half of season 11, and all of season 12, when shown on TV Land or Nick, were shown along with the B/W episodes (Odyssey/Hallmark showed all the color seasons, 6 thru 12)--seasons 1 thru 5 (B/W), the second half of season 11, and all of season 12 were not officially part of any syndication package. At any rate, it has been at least 15 years, probably more, since either season 11 or 12 have been shown.

Seasons 11 and 12 have probably never been digitized, until now--so we can hope some work has been done to clean them up a little. I hope they've been completely remastered from the original film elements, but that's way too much to hope for!

I can't wait. I really hope they keep going thru all of Season 12 too then start the series again from the beginning b/w years. Wouldn't it really be nice if they played this show in prime time hours instead of the never ending misery of Hogan's Heroes or MUSH? Also I would love to see restored versions of Season 12 rather than the faded color look of Odyssey's broadcasts eons ago.

Well, after seeing season 11 episode 1 just now, I can say they have done some work on at least this episode. I have the same episode sourced from TV Land, and the colors are horrible. In the episode just on MeTV, the colors are vibrant, and way, way better. I doubt they went back to the original film, but they may have found a much better videotape copy. Kudos to MeTV, and CBS TV Distribution.

Neat!!!:) I haven't seen the eps. With Polly since I was a little girl and they were first run ! !:)

And that is a very cool article CJ! ;)

I can't wait. I really hope they keep going thru all of Season 12 too then start the series again from the beginning b/w years. Wouldn't it really be nice if they played this show in prime time hours instead of the never ending misery of Hogan's Heroes or MUSH? Also I would love to see restored versions of Season 12 rather than the faded color

look of Odyssey's broadcasts eons ago.



Yes, it would be very cool if My three Sons could replace either Hogan's or Mush in primetime! ;) :wave:

Both of those shows need to go. Mash can be seen elsewhere on TV now.

Well, after seeing season 11 episode 1 just now, I can say they have done some work on at least this episode. I have the same episode sourced from TV Land, and the colors are horrible. In the episode just on MeTV, the colors are vibrant, and way, way better. I doubt they went back to the original film, but they may have found a much better videotape copy. Kudos to MeTV, and CBS TV Distribution.


Good news !!! I can't wait to check my copy :)

Neat!!!:) I haven't seen the eps. With Polly since I was a little girl and they were first run ! !:)

And that is a very cool article CJ! ;)


I was a teenager during 1st run, and loved this season with Polly & Chip :)

I found those articles and posted them on the "My Three Sons Fans" Facebook page and thought I would share them here, as well :)

It is not my page, but a great fan page if anyone has Facebook ;)

Yep, I was a couple years younger than Ernie, but grew up in the same era, this show, Dennis The Menace & Beaver all remind me of my kidhood and the whole time period.

I was very impressed with the color today on this first S.11 episode. If they keep this up thru the rest of S.11 and then even really amaze us by having this quality for Season 12, I will be one extremely happy camper even if Barbara doesn't wear her make-up in the tent.

I do have one complaint though, I really do not like that ME TV is now broadcasting in Letterbox format for these what should be regular square full screens. On my cable version of ME TV the picture is not just cut off on the top and bottom (I couldn't see the very top of Steve's head today) but it's also boxed in inside the screen, so there's black lines on the sides of the picture, the picture is basically framed by a black box. If you hit zoom a bit more of the top of the picture gets cut off so now there's even less of Steve's head. I liked ME TV's picture much much better a year or 2 ago when they broadcast a full screen picture, this is what they should still be doing, especially since no vintage TV show was ever in widescreen. Doesn't even make sense to b'cast these vintage square screens in little boxed in pictures. Very rotten.:(

There are lots of things to enjoy about these episodes. First and foremost, the fashion changes -- and while some are not particularly good, most are hardly horrible or unflattering. I was starting school at that time and recall the teachers' short skirts and odd belts. The teacher I had for 1st and 2nd grade was wearing stick-straight hair like Polly.

It's fun to see Polly's ardent interest in Chip, which elicits his characteristic "Man, Polly!" response. Even in conservative clothes and relatively flat shoes, she could bring on the heat. GO FOR IT CHIP! "Man" indeed!! :)

I do have one complaint though, I really do not like that ME TV is now broadcasting in Letterbox format for these what should be regular square full screens. On my cable version of ME TV the picture is not just cut off on the top and bottom (I couldn't see the very top of Steve's head today) but it's also boxed in inside the screen, so there's black lines on the sides of the picture, the picture is basically framed by a black box. If you hit zoom a bit more of the top of the picture gets cut off so now there's even less of Steve's head. I liked ME TV's picture much much better a year or 2 ago when they broadcast a full screen picture, this is what they should still be doing, especially since no vintage TV show was ever in widescreen. Doesn't even make sense to b'cast these vintage square screens in little boxed in pictures. Very rotten.:(

You're preaching to the choir, with me. On one cable box, I get MeTV with full screen, but squeezed at the sides, so everyone looks narrow, but the heads are chopped off. On my smaller DTA cable box, it's also full screen, but "zoomed in", so the aspect ratio is off. I HATE all these manipulations of pictures that goes on now. Sometimes wide-screen with black bars on the top and bottom, sometimes letterbox, sometimes black bars on the sides only.

I got out a Make Room For Daddy DVD, taken from MeTV several years ago. What a pleasure to see a NORMAL TV picture! Antenna TV locally is still normal standard definition--don't know how much longer that will last...

On today's M3S episode, the chopped off heads effect was REALLY bad. But, boy, that improved color...I'll still take it!

There are lots of things to enjoy about these episodes. First and foremost, the fashion changes -- and while some are not particularly good, most are hardly horrible or unflattering. I was starting school at that time and recall the teachers' short skirts and odd belts. The teacher I had for 1st and 2nd grade was wearing stick-straight hair like Polly.

It's fun to see Polly's ardent interest in Chip, which elicits his characteristic "Man, Polly!" response. Even in conservative clothes and relatively flat shoes, she could bring on the heat. GO FOR IT CHIP! "Man" indeed!! :)

I really like Beverly Garland's mini skirts in this season.

Yeah, Polly puts a move on Chip, and he's "Man, wow, Polly!" I wonder what his phrase was on the honeymoon.

Yes, it would be very cool if My three Sons could replace either Hogan's or Mush in primetime! ;) :wave:

I third that. It’s on way too early at such a bad time for me. Those other two have been driven into the ground and hogged the same spots for way too long.

Bullet Points Follow:

Yeah, I second my opinion to take off MUSH and put on My 3 Sons in Pram Tam.

Fashions in the '70's were much better than the "fashion?" of today. I loved seeing girls in mini-skirts :) And girls with long straight hair drove me crazy:happyface . BUT it seems now to be some sort of craze for women/girls (worse big fat older women) to wear these god-awful skin tight tights, like a ballerina would wear, though these gals don't wear a tutu to cover their posterior. In my opinion these skin tight pants these gals wear today show a lot more than any mini skirt ever hoped to show. A mini skirt was very attractive and left a little to the imagination and drool over. But these skin tight atrocities leave NOTHING to the imagination, every line, curve, bulge, lump, blob:eek: is right out there, no imagination necessary, other than to imagine what you're seeing in skin color. And this apparel seems especially popular with 2 ton ladies, ARGHH UGH.:eek: I think these things are in extreme bad taste, almost as bad as these jack-donkeys who wear their pants 1/2 way down their posterior. (I'm trying my best to talk like I'm in "family hour"). Polly had it all, straight hair, short skirts and the right attitude. :wave:

Ditto on mush and hogan. Move M3S in one of their places, and some refreshingly different program in the other.

If you don't relate to what he's saying above, try sitting in a Walmart Subway and watch the people go by. You'll see what he means.

I'll add one other gross-out: Watch pregnant women go by. They used to wear attractive clothes back in the day. Now they look like they're carrying around a cantaloupe, with the apparel wrapped tightly around it.

OH, you said it. I've told folks for a while now about those awful looking skin tight shirts gigantically pregnant women wear nowadays. A skin tight shirt with this HUGE GIANT football sticking straight out and then the form fitting outfit follows the huge bulge closely all the way around back to the legs. Pregnant women used to wear nice tasteful big loose shirts or a big loose dress where you couldn't follow the bulge all the way around every contour. It was much more attractive, this new craze for wearing skin tight shirts that show the entire huge belly and it's every contour make me sick. I literally have to turn my head away.

Craig Stevens episode today. The last time I saw that one, I had never seen his work on Peter Gunn. I thought Katie's reaction to his character was pretty funny. I also enjoyed the playful banter between Katie and Robbie, very much in character for both.

This was a good episode for Beverly Garland fans. Her acting seemed to capture well how you might've expected Barbara to behave.

Actually, this whole Polly-Chip story arc is really well-written. I checked the credits on a couple of them--both were writen by show-creator and veteran writer George Tibbles--I'd bet he wrote every one of them.

All the actors are really doing well, too--and as I said on another thread, Norman Alden is probably doing one of his best roles--Doris Singleton is pretty good, too.

Actually, this whole Polly-Chip story arc is really well-written. I checked the credits on a couple of them--both were writen by show-creator and veteran writer George Tibbles--I'd bet he wrote every one of them.

All the actors are really doing well, too--and as I said on another thread, Norman Alden is probably doing one of his best roles--Doris Singleton is pretty good, too.


I agree! I have thought for a long time that I wasn't all that fond of S11 & S12, but I am finding out that I am really enjoying this season. I am also liking Dodie much,much more than S10. She has some really cute lines and seems more at ease with her acting. S12? Eh, I don't think I will be able to say the same about that one :confused:

I had forgotten that Norman Alden played Polly's father, as I always associate him with beloved "Coach Fetters" drowning in chicken soup on "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman." He really does play the overprotective father to the max.

Doris Singleton was such a beautiful woman and very believable as Polly's mom.

Season 12 saw the departure of long-time director Fred DeCordova, who went on to the Tonight Show. The new director was Earl Bellamy. And of course Don Grady left the show. The season opens with the multi-episode Fergus story arc, with that horrible dubbed in dialog for MacMurray. All I can say to that, is ugh.

Let's see if we can find a few good episodes, anyway.

As for Dodie in Season 12, I think she's really at her best in season 12, she gets off a lot of funny lines, mostly in response to what's happening around her. She reminds me of Charlie the older she gets, in that she says exactly what's on her mind with no filter. She also looks nice with her long hair. I will say that Rob is SORELY missed, it's like the elephant in the room anytime Katie and the brats are around, WHERE'S ROB? He really shouldn't have left this show until after it was all over. As usual actors who leave hugely successful roles early think they're onto bigger and better success for themselves and as usual, you never hear from them again. Rob thought he was going to be a big rock star when he quit the show, name me one hit.

As for Dodie in Season 12, I think she's really at her best in season 12, she gets off a lot of funny lines, mostly in response to what's happening around her. She reminds me of Charlie the older she gets, in that she says exactly what's on her mind with no filter. She also looks nice with her long hair. I will say that Rob is SORELY missed, it's like the elephant in the room anytime Katie and the brats are around, WHERE'S ROB? He really shouldn't have left this show until after it was all over. As usual actors who leave hugely successful roles early think they're onto bigger and better success for themselves and as usual, you never hear from them again. Rob thought he was going to be a big rock star when he quit the show, name me one hit.

Ha, you must be a mind reader because I am just getting ready to start a new thread about the awkward absence of Rob in season 12.

Legs... LEGS...LEGS!!:)

Tina, Beverly, and Ronne are really displaying some impressive leg in the Season 11 eps now airing.

Some of those dresses make a modern woman's tennis outfit look longish. And we're getting a fairly good resolution -- you usually have to look very closely to see flaws in the prints being used by MeTV. Not too much to complain about.

Yeah, the mini-skirt era--those were good times on M3S...

yes, these prints were obviously remastered--they look really good, especially compared to the way they looked in airings 15-20 years ago.

This is going to sound like a really unusual request...maybe not so as I know the closing logo community does get some shoutouts here.

Regarding today's episode...apparently there was an occurrence of a certain Viacom logo being seen there, and after the CBS Television Distribution logo that now appears on seemingly everything, no less. What's so special? This would be Viacom's VERY FIRST logo, called the "Pinball" for the sounds it makes as the word "Viacom" forms part-by-part, only to zoom back and join the phrase "A Viacom Presentation." It has not been seen in full on TV for nearly 2 decades. (when, yes, M3S was seen on the Hallmark Channel and got to these episodes)

No one has captured said logo/end credits in the CLG community, thus far. So I am wondering if anyone happened to record the episode in question and can post or share the end credits and logos?

Thank you.

Yeah, I saw it...no ability to post it, though. This episode was sourced from extremely old, badly edited episodes. I think that old Viacom logo is from the 70s. The really odd thing is that it was AFTER the up-to-date CBS Dist. logo.

MeTV ought to be embarrassed to show an episode in this condition.

Yeah, I saw it...no ability to post it, though. This episode was sourced from extremely old, badly edited episodes. I think that old Viacom logo is from the 70s. The really odd thing is that it was AFTER the up-to-date CBS Dist. logo.

MeTV ought to be embarrassed to show an episode in this condition.
Today is the first time I've seen that Viacom logo on TV in almost 18-20 years. It was kind of refreshing, in a way, because it reminded me of watching these episodes on Hallmark as a kid. It's similar to The Millionaire, CBS only has 16mm masters of the series, and they're all old Viacom prints.

The Decades channel at times has shown Fedderson's The Millionaire, in recent years. They even did a "Weekend Binge," wall-to-wall episodes. I think most of those prints carried the Viacom logo with the big "V."

Yeah, I saw it...no ability to post it, though. This episode was sourced from extremely old, badly edited episodes. I think that old Viacom logo is from the 70s. The really odd thing is that it was AFTER the up-to-date CBS Dist. logo.

MeTV ought to be embarrassed to show an episode in this condition.

Depends on how you look at it. I guess if you're just watching for the show, I can see your POV. But if you're in it to possibly see rare logos too...seeing the CBSTD studio show up everywhere gets tiresome.

Yes that "old" logo was used from 1971-1975. Which means they're using a 40+ year old print!!!!

Yes, it's sad. For example, I've been watching Seasons 6-10 for most of my life, mostly locally (WHME - 46 ran them for years). MeTV has now run the same ones, warts and all. And there's never been any attempt to go back and strike some new prints - shame on CBS. Minimally, those with debris marring the shows' opens need to have a cleaner copy spliced on.

WHMB 40 in Indianapolis showed 6 thru 10 unedited for years. I'm glad I had my DVD recorder rolling.

I've seen both referred to as "the flagship station of LeSEA Broadcasting," but 40 went on the air several years earlier. I remember watching eagerly when 46 began -- among their earliest broadcasts were public-domain Paramount Popeye cartoons from the 1950s.

Back when I was watching M3S S-6 to S-10 in syndication on a big network affiliate (I believe it was WSBT-22, the CBS affiliate), I also remember from that time "Gunsmoke" and "To Tell the Truth" (with Garry Moore).

As for Dodie in Season 12, I think she's really at her best in season 12, she gets off a lot of funny lines, mostly in response to what's happening around her. She reminds me of Charlie the older she gets, in that she says exactly what's on her mind with no filter. She also looks nice with her long hair.

I haven't seen season 11 in a long time, and she's doing pretty well in this season, too. I think the writing for her character improved over season 10, plus the fact that as an actress she seems to have adapted to the part.

I am watching today’s episode “The Advent of Fergus” and the audio is bad on mine kinda tinny. Anyone else have this.

On most of these un-remastered episodes, the audio is horrible.

I wish I knew somebody--I'd volunteer to do anything to improve them, if I just had the resources.

With regard to Biff's post 31, I'd settle for the condition of seasons 6 thru 10, compared to these. At least they probably used the original films for mastering, rather than these 16mm copies sent around to stations.

It seems reasonable to believe that CBS has kept its years of the series in its library, as we've seen Carol Burnett standing amid shelves of her show's archive -- and the early years of her series' run coincided with (offhand) Seasons 7-12 of M3S. I have to believe CBS has done a more conscientious job of preserving their primetime past than what we know to have been lost from daytime.

What I'd like to see would be a primetime special in 2020 commemorating the show's 60th anniversary. Of course the early years were on ABC, but it would still give CBS a good reason to remaster a couple of the most memorable episodes and give the series its due.

Well, I know I'm beating a dead horse, but if I were CBS TV Dist., I'd be embarrassed to put my logo on these particular episodes.

I suppose I need to can the negativity and say I'm glad they're being shown again after 15 or 20 years.

On most of these un-remastered episodes, the audio is horrible.

I wish I knew somebody--I'd volunteer to do anything to improve them, if I just had the resources.

With regard to Biff's post 31, I'd settle for the condition of seasons 6 thru 10, compared to these. At least they probably used the original films for mastering, rather than these 16mm copies sent around to stations.

I agree quality hasn’t been great. This one seemed worse than the others.

I would say on the positive side, the color has not been too bad for these Season 12 eps in most cases. I can live with the bad audio; I'm more concerned with the cuts.

Faded colors were sometimes pretty common at times in Seasons 7-9 or so in the prints we're so used to -- the house exterior, living room scenes, etc.

For example, in the episode where Rob decides to sell real estate (Season 7), with guest Steve Franken, look at the scene near the end where Steve Douglas is trying to shovel the mud entering the house. The video quality is quite poor. So while those earlier seasons are overall in superior shape, when one looks closely there are bad moments. Audio was definitely better however, and of course hacked up eps from editing is not such an issue.

Here are some notes, by season, for TV episodes:

Seasons 1 and 2 -

Remastered due to DVD issue, and could not be better. The only thing that could be better would be a channel that would show the episodes unedited. The DVD sets would be inferior to this due to music substitutions.

Seasons 3 thru 5 -

Not in syndication and never remastered--video and audio quality varies from episode to episode. Some episodes are available in full length, some are syndication cuts. I've reviewed season 3, and there are more full length episodes than syndication cuts. Again, it would be great to see the full-length episodes unedited, and the syndication length episodes restored to full-length.

Seasons 6 thru 9 -

These episodes were remastered for syndication at some point, probably in the 1990s. The source was probably videotapes of the full length episodes. Video and audio quality varies from episode to episode, but most look good. Color tends to be weak on some episodes. A very few episodes are syndication cuts, mostly toward the end of season 7, for an unknown reason. Among these episodes, probably season 8 generally looks worst.

Season 10 - Generally the best season in syndication. Most episodes have good video, color, and audio. Most if not all episodes are full-length.

Season 11, first half - Not in syndication. Remastered for use on MeTV, the colors are more vibrant than the other seasons. An unadulterated version of the opener has been newly-attached to these episodes. It cuts the music just before the sponsor info. cuts in. It either does not include the Fred MacMurray welcome, or that was cut by MeTV.

Season 11, second half - Not in syndication. Some color-correction work appears to have been done, probably by MeTV. Appear to be mastered from 16mm syndication cuts made in the 70s, four of which are close to unedited length, and eight of which are syndication cuts. Both the close to original length and syndication length episodes have crude edits, probably made years ago to the 16mm print. Probably the original 35mm episodes are sitting in the CBS archives, unused since the 1970s. These episodes probably were videotaped years ago, only to be sent to the Library of Congress archive, but I'd guess never for syndication purposes. Audio quality is mostly muddy and low, and this is probably not correctable without a quality-source remastering. The edits on all episodes are horrible, with very obvious cuts. Opener is an old syndication edit which includes the Fred MacMurray welcome, which is most often cut by MeTV. A couple of episodes have the newer opener included (like the first half of season 11), probably because the syndication version looks way too bad for present-day broadcast.

Season 12 - not yet complete on MeTV, but if the start is any indication, the colors have been worked on, but the audio is still horrible. As yet, no full-length version edited by MeTV have been shown. The first two episodes are identical (other than color correction) to the versions shown on Odyssey/Hallmark years ago. The edited versions shown on Odyssey were even worse edits than season 11, so this may be what we will be seeing on MeTV. The original show opener, with cast corrections for the 12th season, was never shown on Odyssey, and probably never shown anywhere after the original broadcast.

Today’s episode, S12 E10, was probably the most edited episode I’ve see air so far, with a total run time, with commercials removed, of 18 minutes and 38 seconds. Many episodes have a run time of between 21 minutes to 23 minutes.

Not that I was keeping track, but there were 11 minutes and 10 seconds of ads in this episode. It probably set a MeTV record for ad time (probably worse than even Logo).

Katie sang 2 songs, which were cut out. That totaled an additional 3 minutes and 31 seconds edited out (in addition to all the other edits in these chopped up episodes). The music rights must have expired--I'm surprised they showed the episode at all.

Not that I was keeping track, but there were 11 minutes and 10 seconds of ads in this episode. It probably set a MeTV record for ad time (probably worse than even Logo).

Katie sang 2 songs, which were cut out. That totaled an additional 3 minutes and 31 seconds edited out (in addition to all the other edits in these chopped up episodes). The music rights must have expired--I'm surprised they showed the episode at all. I did notice near the end of the episode that Me-TV showed an awful lot of ads, even more ads than they usually showed. Odyssey's airing, according to the download I have of this episode, had a run time of 22:01. Katie's songs were intact on this airing, and one of them was near the end of the episode, so I assume Me-TV had to make up for the lost time by showing extra ads.

In these music rights situations, normally Me just skips the episode--for instance, they skipped 2 Donna Reed S8 episodes with music issues.

I really wonder if the music status of some of these older shows is even known. They may not know, and rather than risk a lawsuit, they either don't air the episode, or chop it up further like this one.

In these music rights situations, normally Me just skips the episode--for instance, they skipped 2 Donna Reed S8 episodes with music issues.

I really wonder if the music status of some of these older shows is even known. They may not know, and rather than risk a lawsuit, they either don't air the episode, or chop it up further like this one.

I haven't yet seen the ME tv version, but I remember a few weeks back when I watched my Odyssey DVD version of this show and in that Katie sings the same dreary song twice (I talked about this episode earlier right after I watched it, see more brilliance from me in that previous post). Now after reading here I'm at least glad Odyssey didn't edit this show to pieces the way Me did. My earlier comment mentions that the club boss tells Katie that he hopes she knows more than one song, and funnily in the ep. all Katie sings is the same song. So, the song is called "The Fountain" it was actually written by Rob and even the instrumental accompaniment for Katie in the background was actually recorded by Rob too. So in a way this was the unseen return of Rob straight from Peru. For those who watched Me and missed out on hearing (twice) Katie sing this woe is me song, you didn't miss anything, it was awful.

By the by, since Katie was in mid-warble when Steve & Charlie sneak into the club to spy on her, does this mean also that the Steve & Charlie in the club to spy on Katie scene was cut out too?? If they cut out this Steve & Charlie checking out the club scene, that is a crime, they had some good dialogue together sitting at their table whilst Katie warbled.

And beside, when Me broadcast the b/w shows where often times Rob is shown singing his own compositions I don't remember anyone here complaining that the music was edited out. (I still have yet to start watching the ME TV recordings, I was way ahead of Me in my own weekly viewing when ME started, so I stuck to my own DVD broadcast schedule.) So, the second question is if ME tv didn't see a need to edit out Robs music in these earlier episodes why would they now consider Rob's music un-broadcastable? Why was the Rob music free to broadcast then but not now. And besides all that, these are broadcast shows on TV, it's only official DVD releases of shows where the DVD company is too cheap to pay the music rights where these are edited, but NOT the broadcast versions on TV. Why is ME TV acting like they were releasing these on DVD and editing the music cause they don't want to pay for the rights?

Still, let me know if the Steve & Charlie going to the club to check out Katie was edited out from ME.

They show Steve and Charlie sitting at the table--they come in to the scene as the audience is clapping. I agree, the whole episode is pretty forgettable.

The whole music thing confuses me, too. I don't remember them editing out Tina Cole singing "Downtown" in season 8 (good song, that one). As I said in the other post, it may be that sometimes they can't determine the rights, and rather than face a lawsuit, they clip it out, or skip the episode. In other cases, the music rights may be clear.

Every episode of Bachelor Father that Antenna TV skipped had some kind of musical performance. The season 8 Donna Reed episodes that MeTV skipped had the same (such as the Lesley Gore episode, where she performs "It's My Party")(exception: they also skipped an episode Bob Crane appeared in--there's also some mystery problem there). Antenna TV recently skipped a Hazel episode where Hazel sings a campaign song, where the music is some old song.

Just had the opportunity to see a 3rd version of "Katie's Career" from the uncut Nick at Nite airing which had at least 3 scenes not on Odyssey or ME versions. Additionally, it contained the beginning of Katie's song before Steve arrives at the coffee shop.

It always amazes me how these episodes are edited so differently. Scenes that add to the storyline are cut, but scenes which don't add much are left intact. Commercial breaks are sometimes inserted in the middle of a scene.

Some of the ME episodes are identical to Odyssey, but there are several ME episodes that contain a minute or so more than Odyssey. Likewise, there are brief scenes cut from ME that are intact on Odyssey. No rhyme, nor reason.

Yes, you discovered that Odyssey has certain scenes or even a few sentences that Me does not have, and vice versa. Then evidently you have found that Nick has "put it all together" and has yet other scenes and has a complete or close-to-complete episode, in at least the "Katie's Career" episode (which was absolutely horrible on MeTV). This complete or nearly complete episode may be because Nick is owned by Viacom, as was M3S at the time.

One thing that is interesting, comparing Odyssey to MeTV, is how much they have in common. Cut the same 2 seconds from the beginning of the opening theme. Dump out to the break, and cut the same 2 seconds out of the closing music; i.e., the episode on both Odyssey and MeTV still looks choppy--they both have the "choppy" edits, yet they have different scenes and pieces of dialog edited out.

This "choppy" editing is not evident in seasons 6 thru 10 and the first half of 11, which are based on complete episodes used in syndication. So the editing is left to MeTV, and in most cases, the choppy style is not used anymore. The choppy style is still evident on other old shows from Viacom origins--such as Father Knows Best, Burns and Allen, and Dennis the Menace.

In these music rights situations, normally Me just skips the episode--for instance, they skipped 2 Donna Reed S8 episodes with music issues.

I really wonder if the music status of some of these older shows is even known. They may not know, and rather than risk a lawsuit, they either don't air the episode, or chop it up further like this one.

I thought music rights weren't as difficult as they were with DVDs, when you're airing it on television. But then again there are outstanding examples to the contrary, like WKRP (don't catch it on Me, which version(s) do they air?)

I wonder if clipping this episode is kind of a phase one for CBS to eventually remaster these shows? As this is their usual M.O. when they do so.

The Viacom logo situation continues to be quite strange, but cool for those who thought we'd never see this 50+ year old logo on TV again (YMMV, of course). But it's weird cause it seems like CBS picks ONE version of the "pinball" logo to combine with its own logo, and plays it over multiple episodes. Like they did it on purpose. Which is moreso strange as CBS is not known for honoring the history of past companies.

This Viacom logo, with the color changes, is that one that played when Odyssey showed these episodes nearly 20 years ago. CBS (or MeTV) pasted the current logo between the end credits and the Viacom logo, which is an odd placement.

As far as your remastering theory goes, I hope you're right.

This Viacom logo, with the color changes, is that one that played when Odyssey showed these episodes nearly 20 years ago. CBS (or MeTV) pasted the current logo between the end credits and the Viacom logo, which is an odd placement.

As far as your remastering theory goes, I hope you're right.

Here's where the eye of a logo fanatic may be different from the average person :-)

Yes it is the same logo, but is it the same prints of the logo used on each Odyssey airing? I've noticed that, in the instances of the changing color Viacom logo on Season 12, the color seems to be similar, as do the placements of the film scratches.

Same with season 11, which aside from one instance and the two where they used later Viacom logos, used the same darker, almost colorless version of the "Pinball." You can tell by seeing the same piece of hair pass by on the right side of the logo.

BTW, the Season 11 finale managed to make one of said later logos even creepier, even on top of its reputation of being a scary ID as it is. As CBSTD cut between credits and original logo, when the Viacom "V of Doom" does appear, the last note of the M3S theme song carries over, as if the words "A Viacom Presentation" are coming forward to a sinister sounding drumroll before the actual jingle cuts in.

I'd love to see a comparison between TV Land, Odyssey, and MeTV airings on this. Suggested it over at the Closing Logo Group's Wiki website.

As for cutting up that S12 episode giving hope for remastering....some hope!! BTW did you know the answer to the WKRP question....totally other sitcom, but yeah!

I agree, I have seen the logo that seems almost colorless. I'm putting both episodes on my DVD recorder each day (Odyssey and MeTV), to compare the episode content, so the next time I see it, I'll compare the logos. Part of the problem is that these episodes are mastered from such poor sources. I'm surprised the colors look pretty good on MeTV, but they may be enhancing them as they air the episodes. Most of the Odyssey showings are totally washed out.

I like old logos too, but more the original ones. The logo that seems to be "lost" is the Four Star logo that used to appear at the end of The Rifleman. I've searched Rifleman end credits on Youtube, to no avail.

No I don't know much about WKRP, other than the DVD music rights issues. I also know WKRP has the same aspect ratio problem on MeTV that M3S has, so we can assume it's not masted to HD either (no surprise, since it's a videotaped show.)

The 4 Star closing logo was regularly shown on GET TV when Get TV used to show a number of 4 Star shows, a year or so ago (now they show Norman Lear crap) but at the end of Thin Man, Mrs. G Goes To College, Ensign O'Toole and other that 4 Star Logo was shown.

I still say though that the issue of music being played when broadcast on TV was never a problem until recent years. Music being put on DVDs for official releases was a problem when the DVD company was too cheap to pay for the rights, but the rules about music rights having to be paid for broadcast TV versions was never a problem. Example, Odd Couple was shown on TV for years with music in tact, when it was released on DVD it was cut out. TV stations would lease the rights to show a series, paying that syndication fee and then they'd show the program. Paying for individual episodes that may have contained music was not an issue, buying the syndication package of episodes was the money paid not paying for music rights for individual episodes. I don't understand (other than music rights greed ruining TV again) why NOW TV stations are treated like they are DVD sellers and must pay for any music that may appear in an episode. This was never an issue before. Don't get it.:confused:

Just checked it out again, I was right before when I stated that Katie was indeed in mid-warble when Steve enters the club, Katie's in the background singing, he then sits down and joins Charlie and Katie is still singing, ALL of this was edited out of the ME version BUT it IS included in the Odyssey version, I knew I didn't imagine it, and checking it again just now proves me right.

I like old logos too, but more the original ones. The logo that seems to be "lost" is the Four Star logo that used to appear at the end of The Rifleman. I've searched Rifleman end credits on Youtube, to no avail.

IIRC broadcasts in recent years of Stagecoach West (1960-61), also produced by Four Star Television in the era of The Rifleman, have carried the old logo. Maybe that will help you find it. As a bonus, Beverly Garland appeared in an SW ep (titled "The Storm").

Just had the opportunity to see a 3rd version of "Katie's Career" from the uncut Nick at Nite airing which had at least 3 scenes not on Odyssey or ME versions. Additionally, it contained the beginning of Katie's song before Steve arrives at the coffee shop.

It always amazes me how these episodes are edited so differently. Scenes that add to the storyline are cut, but scenes which don't add much are left intact. Commercial breaks are sometimes inserted in the middle of a scene.

Some of the ME episodes are identical to Odyssey, but there are several ME episodes that contain a minute or so more than Odyssey. Likewise, there are brief scenes cut from ME that are intact on Odyssey. No rhyme, nor reason.Is the Nick at Nite version anywhere online? I’d actually like to see that one myself.

Just had the opportunity to see a 3rd version of "Katie's Career" from the uncut Nick at Nite airing which had at least 3 scenes not on Odyssey or ME versions. Additionally, it contained the beginning of Katie's song before Steve arrives at the coffee shop.

It always amazes me how these episodes are edited so differently. Scenes that add to the storyline are cut, but scenes which don't add much are left intact. Commercial breaks are sometimes inserted in the middle of a scene.

Some of the ME episodes are identical to Odyssey, but there are several ME episodes that contain a minute or so more than Odyssey. Likewise, there are brief scenes cut from ME that are intact on Odyssey. No rhyme, nor reason.

This is just another reminder of how good N@N was back in the 80s and 90s. Imagine...an uncut episode on Nick at Nite...who'd have thunk it?

I think Odyssey did a really bad job of editing these episodes, which probably already had some minor editing when they got them. I hate when some of the episodes have obvious edits at the very beginning of the episode, right after the opening credits. For instance, there was an episode (it might have been the one where Steve had to take the triplets to work) where the opening music played, and Odyssey cut immediately to Steve in the middle of some phone call. In the Me showing, they had the full opening scene. Yet, on other episodes, like CJ said, the Me episode is virtually identical to the chopped up Odyssey episode.

All this just goes to say to CBS: REMASTER THESE EPISODES, PLEASE!

I asked a guy on another site, who has inside TV knowledge, about the music rights thing--here's his answer (to me, his first sentence is the key, and verifies something Hazel Anyday posted above):

SUBJECT: RE: MUSIC RIGHTS IN SYNDICATED EPISODES
Yes, the syndication companies are too cheap to pay for the music licensing.

In some cases, the record labels and/or the publishing companies want a small fortune. I think in the case of Wonder Years, Sony dug in their heels and said "no more than $5000 total for any song," so if the publisher and label wanted more than that, they substituted a different (but similar) track in the soundtrack. Same thing with WKRP in Cincinnati. I have been told that in a few cases, the producer fought and paid for certain very costly songs (like $50,000-$100,000) to be included.

It's a messy business!

It's Friday, the second show I watch after Bachelor Father is Petticoat Junction. Which brings me to my thought of the day, in this episode of Pet. Junction 5.2 It's Not Easy to Be a Mother Meredith McCrae (I can never remember who's which Blankety-Jo even after all these years of watching) anyway Meredith sings some song which I didn't like when it first began but by the time she got done her warbling I was hooked on it, called something like Who Needs His Memory??? or something like that, which I immediately thought. Here this song is on a Me TV recording from about 3 or 4 years ago sung in it's entirety and it hasn't been edited out. Now, I'm wondering when Me TV gets around to replaying this episode now will they edit out this song too? Which once again brings me to my question, WHY were songs allowed to be played on sitcoms without any problem BEFORE but now suddenly these songs ON TV BROADCASTS, not DVD releases, now they're being edited out. Why? As I talked about before, songs were always heard on TV broadcasts before, TV channels would purchase the rights to show these shows from syndicators and individual music in in individual episodes was not a problem, once the whole package was bought that was it, music and all. Now it seems suddenly the music rights vampires are ruining these BROADCASTS with their greed for ever lasting fees for music sung decades and paid for decades ago. Why the sudden difference in being able to broadcast these shows with music intact?:confused: Talk about the good old days.:rolleyes:

It's certainly not a problem with every program. I don't normally watch Gomer Pyle, but I have read that a lot of Nabors' musical performances were edited out of the DVDs. When it was on MeTV at 5 am I would sometimes have it on while I was getting ready for work, and I know I heard some of his singing (and hit the mute button). All of Danny Thomas' songs are intact when Make Room For Daddy reruns are on TV.

On the other hand, the Carson reruns aren't on Antenna at a time I would watch them now, but I used to see his monologue and first comedy bit once in awhile (he's funnier with 20 to 30 year old material than these late night jokers who are on now). His original shows had plenty of musical performances, and an occasional audience bit called Stump the Band. None of that is included in these reruns.

Another example: the Carol Burnett and Friends reruns have been on TV for years, but it's widely known they're edited to not include any music.

The whole thing is a mess. Somebody needs to do something about it. They need to set a standard, reasonable fee for this stuff. It's ridiculous they have to cut it out.

Here is one I ran into with "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."

In the Christmas episode from the first season, while Mary is alone in the office
on Christmas Eve watching TV, she sings this much of "White Christmas."

"May your days be merry and bright, and my all your Christmases be white."

It is cut from the official DVD release, which I "think" were uncut episodes. However, it was left intact on both copies I recorded from a couple of Nick-at-Nite Merry-Thon's.

This Viacom logo, with the color changes, is that one that played when Odyssey showed these episodes nearly 20 years ago. CBS (or MeTV) pasted the current logo between the end credits and the Viacom logo, which is an odd placement.

As far as your remastering theory goes, I hope you're right.What I think is a bit strange is how CBS chose to not add Viacom's logo to all S11.2 & S12 episode and just only add it to a few. Thirty six episodes make up S11.2 & S12, 25 episodes have aired so far, and Viacom's logo is present on 13 of them. I can't seem to understand why CBS would include their logo on select episodes, and remove it from the rest. Why not add it to all of them, or vice-versa, just remove the logo from the episodes.

Here is one I ran into with "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."

In the Christmas episode from the first season, while Mary is alone in the office
on Christmas Eve watching TV, she sings this much of "White Christmas."

"May your days be merry and bright, and my all your Christmases be white."

It is cut from the official DVD release, which I "think" were uncut episodes. However, it was left intact on both copies I recorded from a couple of Nick-at-Nite Merry-Thon's.

Yeah, MTM was supposedly uncut on DVD. I never knew about this cut, though. They probably wanted an arm and a leg to license even a snippet from that song.

On the Mama's Family S2 DVDs (Time-Life), they didn't even license Willie Nelson singing 5 seconds of On The Road Again (he sang those title words), which came on a portable radio.

What I think is a bit strange is how CBS chose to not add Viacom's logo to all S11.2 & S12 episode and just only add it to a few. Thirty six episodes make up S11.2 & S12, 25 episodes have aired so far, and Viacom's logo is present on 13 of them. I can't seem to understand why CBS would include their logo on select episodes, and remove it from the rest. Why not add it to all of them, or vice-versa, just remove the logo from the episodes.

MeTV could have simply cut it out, if they needed the time.

As Hazel Anyday and stevea pointed out, when it comes to music rights, no doubt a lot of greed is involved -- it's as though the songs are held hostage at times. If the copyright owners can't get what they're asking for, I'm guessing it's usually non-negotiable. They just won't give the release.

All the while, they look for other, unauthorized uses. The judgment or settlement can be very lucrative. For example, in the music industry itself, the heirs of Edgar Rice Burroughs sued over Baltimora's song "Tarzan Boy" for unauthorized use of the character name. It seemed as though that type of lawsuit was their primary activity...!

Look at the ridiculous goings-on over the simple Happy Birthday song over the years. And most shows wouldn't pay the rights to use it (my guess the rights holders made exorbitant demands) and many times used For he's a jolly good fellow, which evidently was and is in the public domain, or skipped music entirely.

I think the rights to Happy Birthday were eventually ceded in court, and it's probably now in the public domain, too.

What I think is a bit strange is how CBS chose to not add Viacom's logo to all S11.2 & S12 episode and just only add it to a few. Thirty six episodes make up S11.2 & S12, 25 episodes have aired so far, and Viacom's logo is present on 13 of them. I can't seem to understand why CBS would include their logo on select episodes, and remove it from the rest. Why not add it to all of them, or vice-versa, just remove the logo from the episodes.

The logo was on today's episode, "Alfred." The logo clearly goes purple, green, red, then blue. I compared it to Odyssey's on the same episode, and it's the same.

I've noticed, at times, it's so washed out and worn, it seems to not show the colors.

Today's episode, S12 E16 ("Buttons & Beaux") had something extra in it. I've noticed Me-TV's airing had an extra scene before the first break which runs about 50 seconds. Odyssey removed this scene. The total run time for Me-TV's airing is 0:21:12. The total run time for Odyssey's airing was about 0:20:25. While Me-TV's airing was a bit longer than Odyssey's airing, it still was edited in some way, as other MTS episodes have a total run time of 0:22:58. Besides that edit, everything else was the same.

Yeah, Odyssey cut about a minute out of that scene before the first break.

The one thing I hate, and both did it with this episode, is cutting dialog or a scene immediately after the opening credits.

The more I think about it, the more frustrated I get. I would gladly pay top dollar for uncut episodes taped from N@N. I do have one 16mm print of a B&W episode, and it’s S02 E21 “Robbie Valentino”. The other five prints I own of the series are color episodes. I know Seasons 01 and 02 have already been released uncut on DVD, but this has original music cues and everything, which I’m glad to own.

I just checked my capture of my film print of this episode, and the total run time is about 0:25:30, excluding ending film leader (with ending leader, the total run time is 0:26:00.) Since the run time is about 25 minutes, I assume this is a network print. If anyone wants it uploaded to the Internet Archive, please let me know and I'll be glad to upload it!

As for the other episode of MTS I own on 16mm film, here they are, along with run times (excluding film leader.) All are Viacom syndication prints:
•S07 E24 "Melinda" - 0:25:09
•S08 E02 "Robbie Loves Katie" - 0:25:09
•S08 E06 "The Homecoming" - 0:25:07
•S10 E10 "After You, Alphonse" - 0:22:56
•S10 E15 "Double Jealousy" - 0:22:21

I would really like to see an S12 episode sourced from an original print. As I said on another thread, I think the closing credits are edited on these...they cut out cast members...they did that on no other season. Then they just sped up the music.

Someone else also posted on another thread, that on the network versions, the opening credits were corrected to remove Don Grady, and add Dawn Lyn and Ronne Troup. It's just hard to believe these episodes aren't "out there" somewhere. Somebody suggested I should complain to CBS TV Prods. about the quality, but I wouldn't know where to begin to find someone to complain to.

I don't know of another sitcom that looks this bad.

I would really like to see an S12 episode sourced from an original print. As I said on another thread, I think the closing credits are edited on these...they cut out cast members...they did that on no other season. Then they just sped up the music.

Someone else also posted on another thread, that on the network versions, the opening credits were corrected to remove Don Grady, and add Dawn Lyn and Ronne Troup. It's just hard to believe these episodes aren't "out there" somewhere. Somebody suggested I should complain to CBS TV Prods. about the quality, but I wouldn't know where to begin to find someone to complain to.

I don't know of another sitcom that looks this bad.I have been collecting 16mm prints for five and a half years (six years this October,) and I have never seen any prints of episodes from S11 or S12. I barely even see prints from S01-S05, but I was lucky enough to get a S02 episode. As of now (July 25, 2018,) there's only one print of MTS listed for sale on eBay, and sure enough, it's another S08 episode, E04 "Countdown to Marriage".

The more I think about it, the more frustrated I get. I would gladly pay top dollar for uncut episodes taped from N@N.

I would also pay top dollar and I have searched high and low. After all these years, I have just recently come across a couple of promising new leads, but am playing it cool and low-key so as not to jinx things. I have several film transfers of Ozzie & Harriet, but only a couple or so M3S included within my various sets.

Pretty sure the Canadian TV Land season one M3S episodes that are floating around out there are uncut. With the exception of 2 episodes which are 24+ minutes, the remainder are 25+ The official season one release episodes are just a few seconds longer, but they have black screen where the breaks were, which likely when added up equals the difference.

I would also pay top dollar and I have searched high and low. After all these years, I have just recently come across a couple of promising new leads, but am playing it cool and low-key so as not to jinx things. I have several film transfers of Ozzie & Harriet, but only a couple or so M3S included within my various sets.

Pretty sure the Canadian TV Land season one M3S episodes that are floating around out there are uncut. With the exception of 2 episodes which are 24+ minutes, the remainder are 25+ The official season one release episodes are just a few seconds longer, but they have black screen where the breaks were, which likely when added up equals the difference.Whoever those leads are, I hope they made copies, because I would sure love to have some N@N recordings of these episodes!

Me too! I remember back then they didn't use any logos, had longer-length episodes....we didn't know how good we had it, back then.

I mainly remember Donna Reed in addition to M3S on Nick at Nite. Great to have both back then.

Yeah I remember watching Donna Reed back then on Nick. Even then, they were missing seasons...at the time, the problems were seasons 4, 6, and 7. 4 is solved but we're still waiting for 6 and 7.

Yeah I remember watching Donna Reed back then on Nick. Even then, they were missing seasons...at the time, the problems were seasons 4, 6, and 7. 4 is solved but we're still waiting for 6 and 7.I have 3 film prints of Donna Reed, 1 from S06, 1 from S07, and 1 from S08.

In my days of creating a My 3 Sons complete DVD set (back in 2005) I used my tapes from Nick, CBN/Family Channel, and TV Land. With all them I was still missing certain episodes, that's when my search began. I even went as far as Australia to get uncut b/w FoxFamily channel (an Australian channel) to get some of the b/w episodes I was missing from my own tapes of all those different channels I recorded from. Columbia Tapes also provided some uncut b/w episodes, remember Columbia Video Tape clubs, you'd get one tape a month with usually 4 episodes each per tape. They cost a fortune though, $25 a piece for one tape. I've been selling my Twilight Zone Columbia House tapes on Amazon, slowly but they're going. Since they're VHS people won't buy unless they're dirt cheap, so not only am I not making a profit when I make a sale, I'm losing $25 with each sale. Now if Amazon didn't take such a huge cut out of even the smallest sale amount I'd be able to make a whole dollar. This sure ain't a way to get back my $25 per tape, basically I'm giving these away now on Amazon, I just can't bring myself to throw them away though.