The more things change, the more they stay the same. From the nutty 1936 anti marijuana movie "Reefer Madness" to todays just as overblown and nutty claims in a recent article by the nations drug czar, John P. Walters, "Pot's weird effects on brains of youth", the crusade by the federal goverment to classify marijuana as loco weed and to not, at the very least, recognize marijuana as legitimate medicine, as it is by nearly 80 state and national health-care organizations that support legal patient access to marijuana for medicinal treatment, just will not end. The arguments against marijuana don't progress they are, as they always have been, lies, misinformation and just plain ignoring the facts and the will of the people. Eight states have legalized medicinal use of marijuana by ballot initiative or legislation. D.C. voters passed a referendem in '98 but that was blocked by congress. Even if you're on the fence or disagree with the volumes of legitimate information attesting to marijuana as being a useful medicine, and not a life threatening drug, - has anyone died from a marijuana overdose? - you should question why it is that the federal government has the final say by nullifying the votes of the majority of it's citizens, on this or any matter.

Personally, I couldn't give a crap whether dope is legalised in America or not, but I hope to God that it's never made legal in Britain!
I don't know too much about the "medicinal benefits" of the drug but if you make it legal in medicinal circumstances then it's only a matter of time before all the dope-heads pressure the government into making it legal for everyone - and that spells trouble.
I mean, have you ever been around stoned people? They are the most boring b#stards on the planet! They just sit there, staring at the wall!! At least when a person is drunk you can still have a conversation with them!
I went to a party this one time and I swear I was the only person there who wasn't smoking weed - it was hell. Stuck in a room with a bunch of drooling zombies!! But that was a party - imagine what it'd be like if dope was legal - these people would be wandering about on the streets like that! At least at the moment they have to keep it indoors.
The people who advocate making marijuana legal always take the "medicainal benefits" angle - "but it has so many good medicinal uses!" Bullsh#t!! Like these idiots care about the medical benefits! They just wanna get high - that's all they care about!
I am completely against the legalisation of marijuana. Full stop.

I am completely for the legalization of Marijuana for public usage. It's already legal here for medical. I am a former pot smoker, and know the effects. I am also a former alcoholic, and let me tell you...the high that marijuana produces is nothing compared to what alcohol can do. Plus, not one single person has died from just consuming Tetra Hydracanabinol (THC, the active ingredient in pot.) Many have died from alcohol poisoning.

There are also many benefits that can come from it's legalization.
1: It can be governmentally regulated, just like cigarettes. Meaning they could tax it, still make it cheaper than the street price now, and use the money to fund schools and fix roads. Also, this would prevent getting "laced" pot with hard drugs in it.
2: Over 624,000 people are arrested and incarcerated for possession of marijuana each year. It costs $32,000 per YEAR to house those non-violent offenders. Not only is this a waste of tax money, but it adds to the already growing problem of prison overcrowding.
3: It would give the police one less thing to worry about. They should be going after murderers, rapists, robbers, and other violent criminals. Not a bunch of pot smokers.

People are going to smoke pot whether it's legal or not. Plain and simple. Might as well make it beneficial to our government and mostly, the people and schools.

Mossopp: Medicinal Marijuana can help eleviate migraine headaches, ease nausea in cancer/AIDS patients, help with glaucoma, and can stimulate appetite in people with anorexia.

Mossopp, you'll notice that in my post I wrote that nearly 80 medical organizations advocate legal use for paitients. These aren't people wanting to get high these are medical experts who want to see dying and ailing people have a better life or a longer life.

There is a law against being drunk in pubic and something similar would be applied to marijuana use. So what if marijuana users would like full legalization, that's there right to advocate for that and many are quite upfront about it. I don't smoke marijuana but it sickens me that people are arrested for personal use or growing it. I don't like being around loud or boisterous people but I don't think there should be a law against them acting that way. If you don't like being around stoned people, avoid them because outlawing them has not and will not eliminate them. And this news might be of interest to you, last March a British goverment agency recommended reducing the criminal penalties for marijuana possession because the drug "is not associated with major health problems."

I don't know. Its one of those iffy things you know? My post may be a repeat of what Mossopp said, but she did mention a lot of true things in her post.

I have heard a little bit about how marijuana helps deal with some health issues, such as cancer. If you need marijuana for that case, than you should be permitted to use it. I'm not going to complain about that. But, lets think about the others that smoke pot just to get high. They will probably get in their minds that they could get pot if they develop some sort of illness. Hence, if the cokeheads get it- it won't be too long before they sell it to little kids.

I know I've said I live in a small little southern town and I'm sure by my description, it must seem like a live in Mayberry. Unfortunately, I don't. We really have problems in this town from teen pregnancy, dropouts, drugs, alcohol- you name and we probably have it here. I'm sure my town isn't the only one to experience issues like this. I think the town could do more to help the situation, because to me it looks like they turn their head away and ignore the problem. I don't know how much they can do though. I don't run this town. And this goes back to Mossopps post, if its legalized for some- than everybody is going to want it legalized.

So the whole point of my post is if you need it than have the govt. or somebody allow you to use it. Allow them to give out a sticker or a ID card that says that you have to use marijuana for such and such illness. Don't legalize it for everybody else for the hell of it, or most of the population will be walking around like zombies.

if pot ever became legal....people would be smokin' it up even more then they already do in my town-- yes I can somewhat see the medical prespective but doctors have other leads for cures and drugs to subside the pain of HIV and diseases as such, so I think that doctors and people studying medicine should focus on those cures and whether marijuana should be used in todays medicine or not

Originally posted by Mossopp
Personally, I couldn't give a crap whether dope is legalised in America or not, but I hope to God that it's never made legal in Britain!
I don't know too much about the "medicinal benefits" of the drug but if you make it legal in medicinal circumstances then it's only a matter of time before all the dope-heads pressure the government into making it legal for everyone - and that spells trouble.
I mean, have you ever been around stoned people? They are the most boring b#stards on the planet! They just sit there, staring at the wall!! At least when a person is drunk you can still have a conversation with them!
I went to a party this one time and I swear I was the only person there who wasn't smoking weed - it was hell. Stuck in a room with a bunch of drooling zombies!! But that was a party - imagine what it'd be like if dope was legal - these people would be wandering about on the streets like that! At least at the moment they have to keep it indoors.
The people who advocate making marijuana legal always take the "medicainal benefits" angle - "but it has so many good medicinal uses!" Bullsh#t!! Like these idiots care about the medical benefits! They just wanna get high - that's all they care about!
I am completely against the legalisation of marijuana. Full stop.


I agree with ya...

I'm in favor of legalizing the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes only. I would hate to live in a society where people were stoned. I won't pretend to know the statistics on the addictive qualities of pot, but I have two nephews who, by all outward appearances, seem as hooked as hell to me.
Most drug addicts started out smoking harmless pot.
I don't think there should be stiff legal consequences for personal usage though. The dealers are another story.
Again, I don't know the stats, but I do recall reading about the dangers of driving and smoking pot--something about how it slows reflexes and reaction time.
I can't stand being around people that are stoned--that look in their eyes and that 'dumb as a stump' demeanor.
I may be the wrong person to weigh in on this topic. I can't stand alcohol or cigarettes either. I lost a sister to a drug overdose 11 years ago, and my mother to lung cancer 2 months ago....so I may too emotionally invested to offer an unbiased opinion on the decriminalization of marijuana.

I think Marijuana should be allowed for medical use only and cigarrettes and alcohol should be banned all together. That will never happen but that is how I feel. I feel smoking should be banned because of how it kills other people just as bad as the smoker. Alcolhol should be banned because it impairs people when they are driving. It isn't fair that once I get my lisence there will be a possibility of me dying because someone doesn't know when to stop drinking. It's ridiculous the kind of idiots there are in this world.

Originally posted by hockeybabe528
I can somewhat see the medical prespective but doctors have other leads for cures and drugs to subside the pain of HIV and diseases as such, so I think that doctors and people studying medicine should focus on those cures and whether marijuana should be used in todays medicine or not Doctors treat the ill with numerous prescription drugs that are more dangerous and addictive than marijuana. But they are not allowed to treat the ill with marijuana, even though many wish they could. Instead, thousands of Americans have become criminals by purchasing marijuana rather than seening their loved ones suffer.
-Clarence Page

I think it should be legalized. Let the people who want to smoke it smoke it. I've never tried it & don't intend to. Personally I can't stand pot-heads, but I don't care if it would be leagalized because then all the miserable people I know who would probably smoke it might feel better :lol: It will never be legalized though because there's too much money in on it.

Legalize.
Hey, I'd rather smoke weed than drink or smoke cigarettes. Drinking is much more harmful, besides making you stupid, and cigarettes are disgusting and a huge waste of money.

It's not a given that if marijuana were decrimanilized more people would use it. Not everyone enjoys or would enjoy marijuana if they tried it. And many people don't equate marijuana's being legal or illegal with right and wrong, it isn't a moral issue with them, it's a matter of whether or not they care to smoke it or are willing to chance the possible consequence of breaking the law. Sweden has the most permissive laws of anywhere in Europe but yet they have the lowest rate of marijuana use in Europe, far lower than in the U.S. One bit of hyperbole we hear is, "What kind of message would it send to our children if we were to allow medicinal use of marijuana?" That's manipulative propaganda and insulting to young people who are capable of sorting things out given the right information. Manipulation backfires, and muddles the issue of drug use in general. Another manipulative scare tactic statement made by the drug policy director, John P. Walters, is that the marijauana of today is 10 to 20 times stronger than that of the 70's. According to the January 2000 Journal of Forensic Science the THC content of marijuana has only doubled over that span of time. Honest discussion that doesn't glorify or demonize marijuana use would bring us to some reasonable decisions on how to deal with it in our society. The "lock 'em up and throw away the key" approach hasn't worked.

Originally posted by tootieismyfav
I think Marijuana should be allowed for medical use only and cigarrettes and alcohol should be banned all together.
Ever heard of "Prohibition"? That's exactly why they can't be banned. Once you give the people a certain liberty, you just can't take it away. The people are going to rebel.

I feel I must reitterate this point: People are going to smoke pot whether or not it is legal. I doubt more people are going to start smoking it just because it is legal, just as I am sure as no one says "Hey, I'm going to start up smoking because the government says it's okay." Schools tell you the negative effects of cigarettes and alcohol. The media tells you all the negative effects. It is then up to the individual to decide whether or not to smoke/drink.
The same with pot. You get all those warnings on television and in school, but people will still smoke it. It's a personal choice. Might as well decriminalize it and regulate it. My reasons for this are stated above.

Is marijuana addictive or just habit forming? Those nephews of Jan's that she told us about, if they're anything like the young scamps I've come into contact with in my world, are usually bleary-eyed and seem to think of little else other than finding, getting and smoking pot. Even girls take a back seat to their pot obsession; pot doesn't call them names or talk back to them. A habit can fizzle out as you lose interest in it, or grow out of it, or it can just dwindle from something you like to do frequently, to infrequently, to not at all. I've had girl friends who I was--in the habit of being with. The day would come though, eventually, when one or both of us would say something like,"Well, we've had a lot of fun but, umm, I have to be moving along now because, this isn't working out." Afterwards, for a time, I'd be irritable and grumbly and snap at my friends. I'd yell, jesture and blair my horn at "lousy" drivers, but sooner or later I'd get over it. That is what I'd call breaking a habit, where as breaking an addiction, if it's possible to have an addiction to a girlfriend, would've included vomiting, muscle spazms, cold sweats, shakes, convulsions, seizures and then, alas, going back for more knowing that I'd be doomed to repeat the whole nightmare. Feeling irritable and out-of-sorts is not so bad compared to that. None of that really bad stuff happens when one is, gladly or reluctantly, giving up marijuana. Law enforcement knows this about marijuana but for a fear factor effect they like to claim otherwise. They incarcerate people for marijuana use, and I don't believe they have any video of anyone suffering in a jail cell from severe marijuana withdrawl. At least, I haven't seen that movie. And I know that if they do have it they sure as heck would've shared it with us.

I don't think it should be leagilized to all these teens who want to smoke it or have tryed it. It's sick and unbelievibly wrong, it should forever stay medical though not just for pleasure. I don't think it can happen, because what about all those people they put in jail for it they can't just leagilize it and say oh well you served 10 years. I don't think it would be fair.

You would definitely wanna set a minimum age requirement like drinking...but unlike drinking, there's nothing wrong with it!!!

Legal for recreational AND medicinal use would be how I'D vote!

Wake up people...it's not EVIL like we once were taught to believe!

pontoon :cool:

Originally posted by Lucille Ball Forever
I don't think it can happen, because what about all those people they put in jail for it they can't just leagilize it and say oh well you served 10 years. I don't think it would be fair. Sorry to take such an easy pot shot but according to your logic - not making it legal because it wouldnt be fair to the people who spent time in jail before it was legal - we should not have abolished slavery because that wasn't fair to the people who had been slaves. Or we shouldn't have given voting rights to blacks and women because that was not fair to the balcks and women who didn't have voting rights before. And so on, and so on. A civcs lesson will tell you that legislating new laws and changing and abolishing old laws is all part, a big part, of democracy.

Originally posted by kittflynn
Is marijuana addictive or just habit forming?

Studies have proven that marijuana is mentally addictive, not physically addictive. That is why it's easier to quit than more harsher drugs, including alcohol.

I guess you can say I'm undecided on this subject. The thing is I don't want to walk out side and smell Marijuana and see a bunch of druggies passed out on the sidewalk or a bunch of druggies acting real stupid because there high.

But I think if it was legalized less people over time would stop using it. The reason that alot of people do drugs is for the thrill of doing something illegal. If it was legalized less people would be doing it. Same with alchol if it was illegal I'm sure more people would try to find some alchol and get drunk.

Hey, I know it's an old topic, but I missed it!

I am pro legalization across the board, medicinal and recreational. But let's take small steps. I'd be happy just to see to reclassified as a Schedule 3 or 4 drug. Marijuana never has and never will belong on the Schedule 1 list.

To the people who say that hard drug users start out on pot, and this is a reason we should demonize it: your logic is flawed. It is is true that a large majority of hard drug users did at some point in their life use pot, but so has over 80% of the American population (by their own admission...at least tried it once, according to national surveys). Just because the majority of hard drug users have smoked pot does NOT mean that the majority of pot users or experimentors moved on to hard drugs.

To the people who are irrationally scared of our nation suddenly all turning into stoners: wake up and smell the coffee as the late Ann Landers would say. Are you admitting that your moral fortitude is so weak that the instant it became legal you would dive right in and suddenly start using something that a week ago you thought was evil? That's NOT what you're saying? Then why are you assuming the rest of the world is so different from you?

I just got back from Amsterdam, as most of you probably know cannabis is legal there. How many times did I smell it on the street: twice. But then I chose to walk around the red light district where a large concentration of coffeeshops are located. Not once did I see people out on the street smoking it. That's more than I can say for America, where it is illegal, and where I have seen and smelled people out smoking it on the street at least 20 times if not more.

You are absolutely silly and almost ignorant, I dare say, if you think that pot would ever be made legal without having regulations up the wazoo and back. So drop that argument, it's dumb, frankly. Sorry to be so blunt.

But you know what I think has been the MOST IMPORTANT issue raised in this post, yet it has been COMPLETELY IGNORED: The fact that our Federal Government is denying the voice and the wants of its citizenry. It is absolutely assinine that the voters can speak but the government can step in and say "we were just kidding, you really don't have any say in this" and what's even worse is that PEOPLE ARE OK WITH THIS?!?!? How is that possible!? You cannot be ok with it simply because you agree with the government on this one, or pretty soon they'll be denying your rights and your wants for something you disagree with them about. It reminds me of a newspaper article I read just the other day, how conservatives are always all for more states' rights and less big government, unless they can use big government to make states bend to their will, which is exactly what is happening in all the states that have made medical marijuana legal.

Pot smokers have been oppressed for decades...and you want to see decriminalization happen in 'small steps'?

The stigma associated with Marijuana was started a LONG time ago...and unfortunately is still alive to this day!

What needs to be done is legalize it for all to use...(with age restrictions of course...because I believe it's better do develop your mind before you expand it)...then tax it, and the national debt would end TOMORROW! Or simply let folks grow their own amidst the peppers and strawberries.

But NO...there are still some that think that Marijuana is what's responsible for the idiot drooling on the floor, that would probably be doing it with or without his Marijuana! You hear it all the time! The kid who committed suicide because he listened to an Ozzy or Judas priest album probably would have done it regardless! "Stupid is as stupid does"...sound familiar? I happen to believe that. If you're stupid, then start smokin' pot...are you stupid because of the pot? NO...don't be silly! There are millions of responsible adults out there using Marijuana recreationally and medicinally daily (like myself) who don't bother anyone...and just want to do what makes them happy!

Let's end the stigma and fear once and for all! It's an HERB for God's sake!! It's not Heroin or Cocaine...or God forbid, another mind altering substance ALCOHOL! And THAT'S LEGAL!

Isn't THAT strange? A benign herb is illegal...but a substance that ruins millions of lives yearly (drunk driver fatalies, liver disease, just plain ole' 'chronic alcoholism' etc. etc.) can be sold over the counter almost anywhere!

I don't mean to be sound angry...but you struck a nerve with this thread!

I am a moderator on a 'Pro-Marijuana' web-site...and I know the basic rules about posting links some some might find 'objectionable'. So if anyone would like to know more about Marijuana...and see for yourself that most smokers are NOT always drooling on the floor, but very intelligent folks...please feel free to ask. ;)

pontoon :cool:

Yeah, they're are a lot of stupid stoners in my town, but there are a lot more stupid drunk asses, who get into their cars and hit trees and lightpoles. It's a double standard, I say.

You know, I hear people who say drinking can make you more sociable, more outgoing, more likable. I've always thought, well, what does that say about that person's real character?

Originally posted by Cokies

You know, I hear people who say drinking can make you more sociable, more outgoing, more likable. I've always thought, well, what does that say about that person's real character?
I think that was a retorhical question, but I will answer it anyway. :)

They lack self-confidence and use alcohol as a crutch to "hold them up" and make them into the person they'd like to be sober.
That is truly sad if someone feels they can only be liked if they consume alcohol. :(

Originally posted by pontoon
Pot smokers have been oppressed for decades...and you want to see decriminalization happen in 'small steps'?


Hey dude, calme down, we're on the same side here! I said alot of pro legalization things up there, and you pick on me because I'd be satisfied with small steps?

OK, fine, perhaps I should have been more clear: sure full legalization would be great and ultimately is what I would like to see, but do you HONESTLY think that they are just going to make a Schedule 1 drug legal? NO!!! The likely first step towards legalization is rescheduling.

Beyond that, simply rescheduling pot to where it belongs would mean that prisons would not be full of harmless pot smokers because the penalties associated with lower scheduled drugs are much more lax. It's nice to dream (about legalization), but it's even more important to be aware of the limitations of the society in which you live and to push for REALISTIC reform first.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Now, I was thinking about this thread last night and I remember someone saying they didn't want to see pot become legal because "Besides, only the dopeheads want it to become legal anyway, just so they can get high whenever and wherever they want" (that's not a direct quote, but an overview of their argument)

This statement really boggles my mind for a few reasons. First, it is completely false. I do not doubt that there are smokers out there who want it to become legal so they can smoke when and where they want, but not everyone who is pushing for marijuana law reforms are dopeheads, or even smokers for that matter.

Second, ok, so let's assume for a brief moment that the only people wanting reform are dopeheads. So basically some people object to this because it's just those stupid selfish druggies who want it to be legal. This argument becomes immaterial when you consider the fact that all sorts of people are looking to change laws because of their own selfish desires.

Let's take a look back to when marijuana was first made illegal. It was made illegal due to the selfish desires of Anglo Saxon Americans wishing to control the waves of immigrant workers coming into America. Making the substances they used illegal (mostly pot and opium) was a way to control and repress them. Additionally, the alcohol industry actively lobbied the government to keep pot illegal (they helped fund "Reefer Madness" propaganda) driven by a selfish desire to maintain a stranglehold on the profits to be made from people seeking altered states of consciousness.

The Temperence Movement was able to get Prohibition passed, but they were motivated by their selfish desire to impose their morality on others. Likewise, drinkers were able to get Prohibition repealed as a result of their selfish desire to be able to drink whenever and wherever they want.

Even in more modern times, nearly all lobby and special interest groups seek to change laws based on that groups' own selfish wants. Big business pushes to change all sorts of laws, from environmental regulations to safety standard laws, driven by a selfish desire to minimize "wasteful" spending and maximize profits.

Even on an individual level, there are still examples. Many people want speed limits to be either raised or removed due to a selfish desire to drive ever faster. Many people want tax reform due to a selfish desire to not part with their money. The list could go on and on and on.

It is a bit amusing and ironic (don't you think?) that the person who made that argument in the first place basically gave no good reason why pot should be kept illegal, except, of course, for their own selfish desire to surround themselves with good conversationalists at parties.

Most of my comments were directed at previous posters to this thread...and you just happened to be in the cross-fire! :talk:

You DO make a lot of good points! ;)

Patience can wear a little thin though, when you've been a good citizen for your entire life...but for 30 years there's that 'dirty little secret' that you can only discuss with a certain few!

Again...didn't mean to pounce on ya Bootsy! :D Musta been close to 'medication time'! :lol:

pontoon :cool:

Originally posted by pontoon
Again...didn't mean to pounce on ya Bootsy! :D Musta been close to 'medication time'! :lol:

pontoon :cool:

No problem, I wasn't really offended or anything, just wanted to make sure you knew I was not your enemy! Quick, go medicate! And eat a slice of pizza for me! ;)

<< eat a slice of pizza for me! >>

THAT'LL do the trick! :lol:

pontoon :cool:

Originally posted by Krystal Lake


They lack self-confidence and use alcohol as a crutch to "hold them up" and make them into the person they'd like to be sober.
That is truly sad if someone feels they can only be liked if they consume alcohol. :(

Exactly.