How many episodes did Diane Ladd appear in as Belle? Seems she was only there for about 10 episodes before they got rid of her too. Guess Linda Lavin couldn't handle the competition of having a real movie star in the role. Apparently Linda didn't like Polly Holliday upstaging her either. What a diva and drama queen Lavin was. They should have left Flo on the show for the run of it.

How many episodes did Diane Ladd appear in as Belle?

22

We do not know the whole story, but it's a shame that Linda did not take some lessons from Mary Tyler Moore about doing what is best for the show and appreciating others. Many of the episodes and a fair amount of more screen time revolved around Alice, so I am not sure why she was so upset about being upstaged. She should count her lucky stars the show was a hit, she was pretty much an unknown before Alice ran. Without the other strong, talented cast members the show may not have turned into a hit at all? I wonder if the show would have remained in better shape if Flo and or Belle lasted longer. Most of the remaining post Flo/Belle episodes were not the best.

Thank you both for the replies!

Wasn't Diane Ladd let go after she won a Golden Globe for her work as Belle on Alice? I am sure Linda Lavin wasn't too happy she won.

Wasn't Diane Ladd let go after she won a Golden Globe for her work as Belle on Alice? I am sure Linda Lavin wasn't too happy she won.

Yes. Diane won a GG for her work, but was not happy working there so wanted out once her contract was up. I always thought it was jarring to have Celia Weston show up and finish out the season instead of starting fresh at the beginning of S6.

I always thought it was jarring to have Celia Weston show up and finish out the season instead of starting fresh at the beginning of S6.


Also it was disrespectful to Diane because her last episode was the introduction for Celia's character Jolene. That was the main focus of Diane's last episode. Diane appeared to have had the same treatment that episode that Suzanne Somers had on Three's Company; a telephone scene away from the main cast. Diane deserved better than a one minute (if it was even a minute at all) goodbye scene with Mel on the phone. I wish the production company and CBS had the guts to stand up to Linda instead of allowing her to bully them into getting what she wanted. Linda was not the best actress on the show, hell she couldn't even sing. I feel the show could have gone on without her the way Valerie did when it was changed to The Hogan Family.


Most of the remaining post Flo/Belle episodes were not the best.


If I remember correctly, quite a few of the post Flo episodes are just remakes of the Flo seasons. I remember there was a Jolene episode where a semi crashed into Mel's diner just like an episode from the Flo seasons. There was a second Jerry Reed episode. Also Belle moving in with Alice driving her nuts was like the one when Flo moved in with Alice. There was also another episode where Tommy moved in with Mel and it made Alice nervous. There wasn't much creativity with Alice after season 4.

Bob Carroll, Jr. and Madelyn Pugh Martin produced many of the seasons of Alice. They were two of the original writers for Lucille Ball and her show from back in the 50s through the 60s. I guess they were used to dealing with a big and sometimes temperamental star in Lucy (I am in no way comparing Lucille Ball to Linda Lavin. I love and respect Ms. Ball. I'm just saying that Bob Carroll and Madelyn Pugh Martin may have just bent over backwards to please Linda Lavin, at least it seems that's what they did). I can't believe they fired Polly in the first place! I can certainly understand Diane Ladd wanting out of her contract with the tension on the set caused by the lead character. I'm happy she won the Golden Globe and am surprised that Polly Holliday never won it for her portrayal, which was great.

Also it was disrespectful to Diane because her last episode was the introduction for Celia's character Jolene. That was the main focus of Diane's last episode. Diane appeared to have had the same treatment that episode that Suzanne Somers had on Three's Company; a telephone scene away from the main cast. Diane deserved better than a one minute (if it was even a minute at all) goodbye scene with Mel on the phone. I wish the production company and CBS had the guts to stand up to Linda instead of allowing her to bully them into getting what she wanted. Linda was not the best actress on the show, hell she couldn't even sing. I feel the show could have gone on without her the way Valerie did when it was changed to The Hogan Family.





If I remember correctly, quite a few of the post Flo episodes are just remakes of the Flo seasons. I remember there was a Jolene episode where a semi crashed into Mel's diner just like an episode from the Flo seasons. There was a second Jerry Reed episode. Also Belle moving in with Alice driving her nuts was like the one when Flo moved in with Alice. There was also another episode where Tommy moved in with Mel and it made Alice nervous. There wasn't much creativity with Alice after season 4.

Agree with all of your post. It was shabby the way Diane was treated and it also reminded me of Suzanne Summers exist.

Alice could have gone on with it being called Mel's Dinner. They could have brought back Diane and Polly with Vera as the third waitress.

The Jolene episodes aren't as bad as I remember them but they did have a lot of repeats from the Flo years.

Bob Carroll, Jr. and Madelyn Pugh Martin produced many of the seasons of Alice. They were two of the original writers for Lucille Ball and her show from back in the 50s through the 60s. I guess they were used to dealing with a big and sometimes temperamental star in Lucy (I am in no way comparing Lucille Ball to Linda Lavin. I love and respect Ms. Ball. I'm just saying that Bob Carroll and Madelyn Pugh Martin may have just bent over backwards to please Linda Lavin, at least it seems that's what they did). I can't believe they fired Polly in the first place! I can certainly understand Diane Ladd wanting out of her contract with the tension on the set caused by the lead character. I'm happy she won the Golden Globe and am surprised that Polly Holliday never won it for her portrayal, which was great.

Polly did win a golden globe for her role as Flo. She won twice and then the following year Diane Ladd won for her role as Belle. That's why both ladies left. Linda Lavin supposedly threw a fit that both ladies won. She and Beth didn't get nominated until the final year of the show for an Emmy and neither won. Imagine if Beth had won one in 82....she would have been fired too...LOL

It's amazing Diane won for her role as Belle. Watching season 5 episodes, she looks out of place. I didn't realize the first time watching these episodes that the writers didn't know what to do with her. No wonder there were quite a few episode remakes when her character was in the show. I'm sure Diane is a wonderful actress, but her character Belle isn't an award winning role IMO.

It's amazing Diane won for her role as Belle. Watching season 5 episodes, she looks out of place. I didn't realize the first time watching these episodes that the writers didn't know what to do with her. No wonder there were quite a few episode remakes when her character was in the show. I'm sure Diane is a wonderful actress, but her character Belle isn't an award winning role IMO.

Agreed. Diane was so good as Flo in the movie, and her Flo was so different than Polly's. They should have modeled Belle after Diane's Flo. But the original Flo had an edge to her, and that's probably not what producers (and "Lucy" vets) Bob Carroll and Madelyn Davis were looking for. So they came up with that southern-fried cariacature, and I don't think it really worked. Neither did Jolene.

I actually liked Belle. She was a good replacement for Flo and she got better as time went on.

I'm not a huge fan of Linda Lavin simply because of her diva antics but I still enjoy the show. However, I refuse to watch anything else with her in it.

Face it Linda...Vic, Beth, Polly, Diane, and Celia all were basically better than you.

Diane seemed to be a little *off* in the S5 ep "Carrie Chickens Out". She had trouble with the line "that cash register will be ringin' and singin'". She kind of slurs the word "register". And she stumbles on another line later in the episode too. I'm surprised the sound editor didn't loop her lines in this. Didn't an insider come on here awhile back saying something about a drinking problem? LOL.

^She was probably drinking to deal with Linda.

Linda Lavin would drive anyone to drink!

The post Belle and Flo episodes were pretty strong though, the show did go on for 4 more seasons, and Jolene had more episodes than Flo or Belle.

Was she not asked to recreate her Flo role from the movie or did she turn it down? Then when they brought her in to do Belle, she couldn't live up to what Polly Holiday had done with the role and the writers didn't know how to make Belle a distinctive character.

Agree with all of your post. It was shabby the way Diane was treated and it also reminded me of Suzanne Summers exist.

Alice could have gone on with it being called Mel's Dinner. They could have brought back Diane and Polly with Vera as the third waitress.

The Jolene episodes aren't as bad as I remember them but they did have a lot of repeats from the Flo years.


I used to think the show was called Mel's Diner lol But I'm not sure how well it would have went over having Flo and Belle together since they were such similar characters. I think having Flo and Jolene together would have been ok since they were so different.

I used to think the show was called Mel's Diner lol But I'm not sure how well it would have went over having Flo and Belle together since they were such similar characters. I think having Flo and Jolene together would have been ok since they were so different.


It should have been called Mel's Diner. Vic Tayback pretty much held the series unlike Linda. I bought the season 6 DVD and his performances are the only parts worth watching that year.

If they had gotten rid of Linda instead of Polly, I doubt they would have had Diane's character Belle as a replacement. They would have created a character similar to Alice like they did with Flo's departure.

It should have been called Mel's Diner. Vic Tayback pretty much held the series unlike Linda. I bought the season 6 DVD and his performances are the only parts worth watching that year.

If they had gotten rid of Linda instead of Polly, I doubt they would have had Diane's character Belle as a replacement. They would have created a character similar to Alice like they did with Flo's departure.


Flo and Belle were too much alike, they would have clashed BIG TIME and fought to be the QUEEN BEE in that diner.

If they had replaced Alice's character, who knows, maybe they would have gotten Ellen Burstyn who played Alice in the movie but given her a different name lol

Wasn't Diane Ladd let go after she won a Golden Globe for her work as Belle on Alice? I am sure Linda Lavin wasn't too happy she won.

Isn't it pretty well known that Linda Lavin didn't get along with either Polly Holiday or Diane Ladd because they stole the show from her? Linda Lavin also publicly praised Celia Weston as the character of Jolene. It was probably because Celia/Jolene was the weakest of all the waitresses on Alice and Linda felt threatened by the popularity of Flo and Belle.

Flo and Belle were too much alike, they would have clashed BIG TIME and fought to be the QUEEN BEE in that diner.

I think that the fundamental problem with both Belle and Jolene is that they basically extremely watered-down versions of Flo (in Diane Ladd's case, the more raunchy aspects of her character from the Alice Doesn't Live Her Anymore movie would have had to have been edited out or censored for the more family-friendly TV show), and neither of them lived up to Flo's reputation. What made Flo such a popular character was her unabashed bravado and her ability to what a lot of us wished that we could do. She was who could regularly tell an annoying boss like Mel to go to hell (or in Flo's language "Kiss her grits!") and get away with it.