Here is a case I don't recall seeing discussed on here much, if at all really. Mark Groezinger. Shot in his car on a lone stretch of road. Police seemed to feel his wife was guilty.

Those on the forum that know me, know that I generally give the benefit of the doubt to "suspects" mentioned on UM. I try to look at both sides and think of circumstances that UM may have left out to see things from another angle.

But I gotta say on this one, does anyone on here have any doubt that Marks wife Judy killed him (or had him killed)? She is one of the few that when I listen to her story, she strikes me the same as Paul Pollis, or Chad Noe. And that is that they are straight up lying to the camera and are completely guilty.

Anyone have any doubts or thoughts on this?

Here is a case I don't recall seeing discussed on here much, if at all really. Mark Groezinger. Shot in his car on a lone stretch of road. Police seemed to feel his wife was guilty.

Those on the forum that know me, know that I generally give the benefit of the doubt to "suspects" mentioned on UM. I try to look at both sides and think of circumstances that UM may have left out to see things from another angle.

But I gotta say on this one, does anyone on here have any doubt that Marks wife Judy killed him (or had him killed)? She is one of the few that when I listen to her story, she strikes me the same as Paul Pollis, or Chad Noe. And that is that they are straight up lying to the camera and are completely guilty.

Anyone have any doubts or thoughts on this?

I don't have any doubts she is responsible. She either did it herself or hired someone to do it, probably the biker guy who was spotted. It seems pretty cut and dry. She wanted Mark out of the way so she could be with her female "friend".

I think she hired someone.

There's no doubt in my mind that she had a hand in his murder. Mark was killed with a .38. When the cops checked recent purchases of .38's in the area, Judy Groezinger's name popped up. She told the cops that she "forgot" to tell them about this. The pawn shop witness was adamant that he saw her buying the gun with a man who was not Mark, another detail that she lied about.

I have zero doubt that Judy is guilty, but I did find it odd that Mark's brother expressed his opinion that he didn't believe she was involved in the murder. It looks like Judy has a spot reserved for her alongside Mark and his parents in their graves, so for all we know, the Groezinger family might still think she's innocent to this day:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=27124059

I don't have any doubts she is responsible. She either did it herself or hired someone to do it, probably the biker guy who was spotted. It seems pretty cut and dry. She wanted Mark out of the way so she could be with her female "friend".

Bingo. A man had to die so she could wear flannel and a rat tail.

LOL freakbook, that sounds about right

On a production side note, it's kind of amusing how much they had to tiptoe around the lesbian angle, not being able to say the word but hinting at the relationship strongly. Fast-forward about a decade and they could actually say the word, 'gay' on the Will Hendrick and Bryan Nisenfeld segments. Sign of the times.

On a production side note, it's kind of amusing how much they had to tiptoe around the lesbian angle, not being able to say the word but hinting at the relationship strongly. Fast-forward about a decade and they could actually say the word, 'gay' on the Will Hendrick and Bryan Nisenfeld segments. Sign of the times.

I had the same thought, although you expressed it better! I watched this segment recently and was like, "She's a lesbian. Why is this such a big deal?"

I had forgotten when the segment had been filmed and aired on network TV. So many things are allowed now that were not allowed back in UM's heyday...

Mark's mother on findagrave:

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18416713

To the right, there is an anonymous comment that reads:

"I miss you my husbands mother and my good friend.. Tell Mark I'll hold him tight beside me again someday and there will be no emptiness anymore.
-Anonymous"

I know the majority will never agree with me (I still think Tim McClure is innocent as well), but there is a part of me that believes this could have been an unfortunate coincidence. I know how it sounds, and maybe I am just naive. I have never been one to conform to the majority anyway.

I hear you on not conforming. I always try to acknowledge there can be some reasonable doubt. I'll go as far as saying there is a slim chance Tim McClure is innocent (for several reasons I won't argue on this particular thread) but I just don't buy Judy being innocent in this case.

I mean, never say never, but she buys a gun days before the murder. Lies about buying a gun. And then her husband is shot with the same caliber weapon? And then her only alibi just happen to move in to live with her and likely having a relationship together shortly after? That together with the fact that it was a violent over kill with the reloading of the weapon, which generally points to a crime of passion.

On a side note, what the hell was Mark even doing out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night? I don't think that was ever explained.

Law enforcement strongly believes she was behind it, or at least indirectly involved. However, the evidence is inconclusive to tie her definitively to the crime. It is a case that we "know" who is the likeliest culprit, but yet we know there is still reasonable doubt because circumstantial evidence does not indicate that Judy either committed it or conspired to do it.

Was the "friend" of Judy questioned by authorities again in recent years? I am sure she knows something or at least discussed it with Judy.

On a side note, what the hell was Mark even doing out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night? I don't think that was ever explained.

Most probably, he was made to come there at gunpoint.

The wife and her female lover friend did it it was a crime of passion.

Mark's mother on findagrave:

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18416713

To the right, there is an anonymous comment that reads:

"I miss you my husbands mother and my good friend.. Tell Mark I'll hold him tight beside me again someday and there will be no emptiness anymore.
-Anonymous"

I know the majority will never agree with me (I still think Tim McClure is innocent as well), but there is a part of me that believes this could have been an unfortunate coincidence. I know how it sounds, and maybe I am just naive. I have never been one to conform to the majority anyway.

That's definitely an interesting find, especially if it actually came from Judy and was not planted there. Based on the segment and evidence found thereafter, I'm fairly certain Judy either had a hand in his murder or at the very least, knows who did it and has not told LE.


Bingo. A man had to die so she could wear flannel and a rat tail.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Didn't Mark and Judy have a son together?

If so, it may have been not wanting to chance being cut off from their grandson that may have prompted Mark's family to at least not publicly proclaim any belief re Judy's possible guilt.

On a side note, what the hell was Mark even doing out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night? I don't think that was ever explained.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was mentioned that he liked to go there to chill and drink beer.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was mentioned that he liked to go there to chill and drink beer.

Did that little tidbit come from Judy, or his brother? Or was it just mentioned in the narration?

Did that little tidbit come from Judy, or his brother? Or was it just mentioned in the narration?

Thought it was in the narration, though it has been awhile since I saw the segment.

It would be nice to hear from the female friend, after all of these years. I think it's been mentioned here previously, but they eventually broke up. Maybe after a few drinks, she may join this forum and share some insight.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was mentioned that he liked to go there to chill and drink beer.

Saw the original segment and there was no mention of this, Stack of course asked at the end why would Mark be at such a far out of the way place?

The girls probably asked to stop there and Mark did and was ambushed by the hitman Judy hired and the three left the scene together.

Bingo. A man had to die so she could wear flannel and a rat tail.

Nailed it :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Thought it was in the narration, though it has been awhile since I saw the segment.
Saw the original segment and there was no mention of this, Stack of course asked at the end why would Mark be at such a far out of the way place?

The girls probably asked to stop there and Mark did and was ambushed by the hitman Judy hired and the three left the scene together.

I swear I remember this also. I recall that they said he went there to get away and in the reenactment he was sitting there at night or something. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?

It was interesting that this one was left out of the Amazon sets, despite being in the Farina 'new' episodes. I noticed that several cases where UM accused a suspect of a murder(s) that was later never proven/charged were left out - Groezinger, David Fisher, Bob Dozier, John James Irwin, etc.

Personally, I have no doubt she did it. But it would be nice to hear from the ex girlfriend, and maybe even Mark's son.

I swear I remember this also. I recall that they said he went there to get away and in the reenactment he was sitting there at night or something. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?

I went back and watched the original segment. They made no mention of Mark ever going to the shrine on the mountain before. In the reenactment where Judy is questioned by investigators, they ask her why Mark would ever go there and she said she didn't know. But consider the source.

It would be nice to get confirmation on when exactly Mark, Judy and her "friend" left the restaurant that night (or if they even went to it). While the mountain and shrine is a desolate area, there was a wedding rehearsal going on at it that night. All of these people saw Mark's car by the gate when they arrived at 8:00 p.m. and it was still there when they left at 10:00 p.m. That tells me Mark was already dead by 8:00. These people would have heard the endless gunshots. And I don't see him sitting there in the dark for over two hours before finally getting shot.