Frasier was a good father to his son! Sure, not perfect, but he was a good father. Since he was divorced and Lillith had custody of the kid there were limited times Frasier could see his son a year. Happens with every Dad. Was he so wrong because of that? No. I know so many kids who have divorced parents but still love their natural father. Frasier was a good father, and tried very hard to make his son happy but was kinda hard when lived in Massachusetts and he lived in Washington. That does not make him a terrible father.

Frasier was a good father to his son! Sure, not perfect, but he was a good father. Since he was divorced and Lillith had custody of the kid there were limited times Frasier could see his son a year. Happens with every Dad. Was he so wrong because of that? No. I know so many kids who have divorced parents but still love their natural father. Frasier was a good father, and tried very hard to make his son happy but was kinda hard when lived in Massachusetts and he lived in Washington. That does not make him a terrible father.

He wasn't terrible but I felt that the writers should have worked him in more but Mr. Grammer didn't want the show to be about the kid so we got limited doses of him.

I know he loved his son but I thought the ending should have been more about being a closer father to him then chasing after Laura Linney.

I loved the Freddie episodes though and Freddie's crush on Daphne. :)

I don't want to just label good or bad, but with both parents psychiatrists, Frasier a radio host, it was certainly feasible for Freddie to fly to Seattle more than once or twice a year, or Frasier vice versa.

Truth is they did the Richie Petrie thing with him, with the effective innovation of pushing him completely out of house and across the continent instead of just keeping him in his room all the time.

I cosign this post.

:wave:

Here's the thing.

On a Freddie centered episode Frasier WAS a devoted father.

But as a longtime watcher of Frasier it seemed weird to me that he was always preoccupied with his love life and his adult family members when his own son seemed like he didn't even exist unless he was actually in an episode.

A few throwaway lines acknowledging his very existence every few episodes would have gone a long way to establish the closeness with his son.

Something like this...

"I just got off the phone with Freddie and he got an A on his paper, Niles."

"Sorry, I am late today, Roz, I just got back from my visit with Freddie and I am a little jet lagged."

"Dad, did Freddie call? I don't want to miss hearing his voice today."

Frasier came off as child free for the most part. The writers were lazy in that respect.

Here's the thing.

On a Freddie centered episode Frasier WAS a devoted father.

But as a longtime watcher of Frasier it seemed weird to me that he was always preoccupied with his love life and his adult family members when his own son seemed like he didn't even exist unless he was actually in an episode.

A few throwaway lines acknowledging his very existence every few episodes would have gone a long way to establish the closeness with his son.

Something like this...

"I just got off the phone with Freddie and he got an A on his paper, Niles."

"Sorry, I am late today, Roz, I just got back from my visit with Freddie and I am a little jet lagged."

"Dad, did Freddie call? I don't want to miss hearing his voice today."

Frasier came off as child free for the most part. The writers were lazy in that respect.

True, as a longtime Frasier watcher too, I think the writers could've found more ways to write Freddie in, like, you said, phone calls. :wave:

True, as a longtime Frasier watcher too, I think the writers could've found more ways to write Freddie in, like, you said, phone calls. :wave:

Yes, based on his actual on screen time he may as well have been called "Maris". :lol:

They could even have had a series of telephone scenes between father and son with him like they did when Darlene was in art school on Roseanne.

I don't think a "good father" would choose to live as far away from his young son as Frasier did. A good father would have chosen to stay close and be present in his son's life, not just through phone calls and a few visits a year.

I don't think a "good father" would choose to live as far away from his young son as Frasier did. A good father would have chosen to stay close and be present in his son's life, not just through phone calls and a few visits a year.

Not always. We're talking about a divorced father. He wanted to start a new life for himself. What was he supposed to do? Stay there and be bullied by his ex-wife just because his son also happens to live there? Frasier also wanted to be with his family in Seattle.

Not always. We're talking about a divorced father. He wanted to start a new life for himself. What was he supposed to do? Stay there and be bullied by his ex-wife just because his son also happens to live there? Frasier also wanted to be with his family in Seattle.

Yes, he wanted to start a new life for himself, he did the selfish thing. When you're a parent to a young child, don't the child's needs come first? If you want to be a real presence in your child's life, you don't leave the state because you need a new start in life for yourself. There are circumstances where a person can only find work out of state and they need to go away to make a living, but this wasn't Frasier's circumstance. When you're a divorced father your child doesn't and shouldn't become a secondary factor in your life.

Later in the series this was even addressed by a mentor of Frasier's, why Fraiser needed to create distance from people in his life, and he went into therapy to try to resolve it for himself.

Yes, he wanted to start a new life for himself, he did the selfish thing. When you're a parent to a young child, don't the child's needs come first? If you want to be a real presence in your child's life, you don't leave the state because you need a new start in life for yourself. There are circumstances where a person can only find work out of state and they need to go away to make a living, but this wasn't Frasier's circumstance. When you're a divorced father your child doesn't and shouldn't become a secondary factor in your life.

Later in the series this was even addressed by a mentor of Frasier's, why Fraiser needed to create distance from people in his life, and he went into therapy to try to resolve it for himself.

Well, no, I agree with you. A child should be the first and foremost thing in the father's mind and priorities. But- keep in mind Lillith. She probably was very overprotective over Freddie and therefore didn't like the idea of Frasier visiting him. And back to the thing about Frasier starting a new life for himself, how is that selfish? He loves his child, but it's certainly forgivable that he didn't want to be around his ex-wife who had custody over Freddie. And plus, Frasier's family was in Seattle. Was he just supposed to drop his own family in favor of his child? I'm all for what you said, but I don't believe it was selfish of him. I believe it was an understandable thing to do.

Here's the thing.

On a Freddie centered episode Frasier WAS a devoted father.

But as a longtime watcher of Frasier it seemed weird to me that he was always preoccupied with his love life and his adult family members when his own son seemed like he didn't even exist unless he was actually in an episode.

A few throwaway lines acknowledging his very existence every few episodes would have gone a long way to establish the closeness with his son.

Something like this...

"I just got off the phone with Freddie and he got an A on his paper, Niles."

"Sorry, I am late today, Roz, I just got back from my visit with Freddie and I am a little jet lagged."

"Dad, did Freddie call? I don't want to miss hearing his voice today."

Frasier came off as child free for the most part. The writers were lazy in that respect.

The sentence in bold perfectly describes Kevin Can Wait.;)

The sentence in bold perfectly describes Kevin Can Wait.;)

Yep!

He spends all of his time with "Chale" who seems so out of place on that show.

The Children?

Who needs them? At least Ray Romano was honest enough in the opening of his show to say "It's not really about the kids." ;) Although they did several really good kid related episodes here and there.

But for the most part they were props.

Well, no, I agree with you. A child should be the first and foremost thing in the father's mind and priorities. But- keep in mind Lillith. She probably was very overprotective over Freddie and therefore didn't like the idea of Frasier visiting him. And back to the thing about Frasier starting a new life for himself, how is that selfish? He loves his child, but it's certainly forgivable that he didn't want to be around his ex-wife who had custody over Freddie. And plus, Frasier's family was in Seattle. Was he just supposed to drop his own family in favor of his child? I'm all for what you said, but I don't believe it was selfish of him. I believe it was an understandable thing to do.

I am going to be very candid here and say as much as I love Frasier and how he cared for his ailing father.

His son should have been his FIRST priority.

Niles was living near Martin and HE should have stepped up, not Frasier whose very young son at the beginning of the show needed him much more.

Lilith always was a generous co parent and I think she pretty much got a raw deal for the most part. (see last paragraph). ;)

Frasier should have stayed in Boston for his young son's sake and visited his adult family members. Not the other way around.

Blame Mr. Grammer and the writers for that, they dropped the ball.

Frasier WAS a devoted father on CHEERS especially when Lilith who could be a basket case walked out on him and Baby Freddie to shack up temporarily in an underground eco pod with a lunatic named "Googie".

Poor Freddie! :(

Frasier wasn't the custodial parent. Frederick was primarily Lilith's responsibility.

Frasier wasn't the custodial parent. Frederick was primarily Lilith's responsibility.

Wasn't that more or less his choice though?

They could have shared custody but he didn't seem to want that option.

Well, no, I agree with you. A child should be the first and foremost thing in the father's mind and priorities. But- keep in mind Lillith. She probably was very overprotective over Freddie and therefore didn't like the idea of Frasier visiting him. And back to the thing about Frasier starting a new life for himself, how is that selfish? He loves his child, but it's certainly forgivable that he didn't want to be around his ex-wife who had custody over Freddie. And plus, Frasier's family was in Seattle. Was he just supposed to drop his own family in favor of his child? I'm all for what you said, but I don't believe it was selfish of him. I believe it was an understandable thing to do.

I think the person who benefitted most from Frasier's decision would have been Litith, because she didn't really have to co-parent. I doubt she would have objected to Frasier leaving Boston.

Just because you don't want to "be around" your ex-wife doesn't mean you have to leave the state, because that way you are also not "around" for your child. Ideally they could have had joint custody and Frasier could have been in Freddie's life as much as Lilith was in Freddie's life. Frasier bailed out of being a full time father to his child. He was a long distance parent solely by choice, not necessity.

As for "dropping" his "own" family, Frasier had lived in Boston for years already. They were already "dropped," if you want to put it that way. They didn't "need" Frasier in their life, they got on fine without him for years. Even the situation with Martin could have been handled differently, he didn't need to live with Frasier.

The show is what it is but there is no way I can say that a man who chose to leave his child behind and move to another state when he could have stayed, continued his career and been present in his child's life, is a "good" father. You put your kid first when you can. Frasier could have put his kid first but he didn't. There's no way I can believe that Frasier put his kid first by moving far, far away from that kid.

Frasier was as good a father he could be considering the fact that he chose to move away and not be a full time dad to his son.

These posts are very thought provoking.

I think that if the show was done today Freddie would have been a bigger part of the proceedings.

Back when it started Mr. Grammer was not the family man he is today. He had some kids by two different women who he saw occasionally but they were estranged from him by his own admission. He didn't seem to be very interested in raising them and I think that attitude rubbed off on his decision to keep Frasier for all practical purposes a single man with no responsibilities to a child.

Today he has a wife named Kayte and they seem to have a stable life with young children they adore.

He had a long marriage to Camille which was very contentious and they both spoke very ill of each other and he left her for the current wife. They also had two children.

As troubled as the Cranes were, Mr. Grammer has them beat by a country mile with his own personal family history which is well documented. His father was murdered. His sister was raped and murdered. His two young half brothers died accidentally. The man had a lot of pain in his life and he caused a lot of pain to those around him by all accounts. He was a notorious alcoholic and drug addict and also went to prison.

I think he was at his best in the first season. You could see him in character seeming very conflicted about his relationship with his father and trying to figure his life out after recovering from Lilith cheating on him and their subsequent painful divorce.

A good final episode could have been Freddie letting him know how much he missed having him as a full time father and Frasier realizing how he dropped the ball with his child and moving back to Boston to repair their relationship. Instead of always finding a way to make HIMSELF happy and fulfilled, he could have focused more on his son and HIS welfare. It must have been painful for that kid to be dropped from his life like that.

Random thought. If Maris was the wealthy one why was NILES paying alimony and going broke? Wouldn't it have been the other way around? Why was it that Daphne, who was portrayed to be a caring and compassionate person seemingly so indifferent to both Donny and Niles new wife's feelings?

Daphne and Niles acted very selfishly at that time and it was hard for me to sympathize with either of them for awhile after that.

I loved the Spelling Bee episode !!!

Off topic...but not really... the same could be said about Everybody Loves Raymond and how the show really wasn't about the kids as much as it was about the in-laws...am I reaching a little too far? I would have liked to see Freddie in more episodes even though I didn't care for him too much. I don't love the spelling Bee episode, but love the one where he turns Goth out of nowhere, I always spit out my drink when Niles sees Freddie with a Goth girl and says "At least he's dating inside the race".

With "Everybody Loves Raymond" the focus may not have been centered on the relationship Ray had with his kids, but he was a constant in the kids' lives. He didn't leave them behind to go live in another city for any reason, so in that sense I don't really see a comparison. On the other hand, Ray wasn't really a hands on dad even though he did live with his kids. He was there, but not always "present." Frasier wasn't there physically all the time but cared about his son's activities and his future and was seen actively trying to participate in his son's life when Freddie visited him or when he visited Frasier.

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying but thought I'd bring it up because I always wondered whether Ray was a "Bad" father himself but liked that the show was focused more on the adults lives than the kids. I wonder if there are any interviews out there from the writers or cast talking about whether Fraiser was a good father. I do think that Niles really wasn't an attached uncle, I don't recall him ever really asking for Freddie or giving him a gift for no reason but did find the competitiveness over that Daphne crush pretty cute.

I think Frasier was a good father who was selfish at times but sometimes didn't think things straight through. Sure, he was selfish and eccentric, but he loved Freddie very much and whenever Lillith allowed Frasier to even see his own child (this situation probably wouldn't have changed if Frasier had stayed in Boston, maybe only gotten worse). I think the fact that he loved Freddie so much and realized that Lillith was taking good enough care of him that he didn't have to be involved, shows that he was a good enough parent for me. Maybe not for some people who will b*tch about every little thing, but for me.

In reality, I’d consider Frasier a father who abandoned his responsibilities of raising his son to move across the country.

But this is TV Land. The writers wanted to get Frasier away from Boston, because had the spinoff been set there, we would have always been expecting Lilith to turn up and for Frasier to pop into Cheers.

I’m guessing that in reality, someone like Frasier wouldn’t have moved away because he would have wanted to be around his son.

The same debate over at Reddit....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Frasier/comments/4wx7m2/is_frasier_an_awful_father/

Having Frederick often over would have diluted his relationship with the adult Cranes, and I think that was the focus of the show.

I agree with all of KatieAnn's posts.

I agree with all of KatieAnn's posts.

I just saw this and wanted to say thanks. :wave:

I think he was a great father, but I never thought about the fact that they could have mentioned Frederick more often.

The show would not have been the same if Freddie was in the Crane house very often. It would not have worked as well. It was an adult theme show.