It will start at 5AM and presumably go til 10PM.

Now that Antenna TV has began airing episodes, maybe this Joey Bishop Show forum will have more activity.

It seems to be a fairly good show, I mostly like what I've seen so far, although Joey Bishop seemed to be an odd choice to star in a TV sitcom.

It's strange that it took all these years for this series to finally appear in syndication, I haven't seen the show before this is my first opportunity to see the episodes.

I used to watch it on RTN and I always thought it was a pretty good show

Joey Joey Joey! - burning it to DVD as I type. Always enjoyed him.

What's irritating to me are those damn credit crunches at the end of the episodes. I wish Antenna TV would discontinue doing that, it's very annoying.

What's irritating to me are those damn credit crunches at the end of the episodes. I wish Antenna TV would discontinue doing that, it's very annoying.
Yea I agree. It ruins the enjoyment of watching the show.

What's irritating to me are those damn credit crunches at the end of the episodes. I wish Antenna TV would discontinue doing that, it's very annoying.

That's exactly why I quit watching Antenna TV. I turned it on this morning to see if they were still doing it. Apparently, Joey Bishop's end credits are longer than most shows so Antenna crunched the credits and showed 3 stupid promos during them. I'm going to check out 227 tomorrow night to see if it has the crunch since it's closing is a little shorter. I may have to see if Joey Bishop is on Kodi.

I think the reason Antenna TV does these credit crunches is to discourage people from recording the shows for a collection. At least that's the only reason that makes sense to me. Serious collectors want the episodes intact including the end credits.

I've never seen this show before till just now! Watching it for the first time. I really like it! :) It's funny! ;) :D

I think the reason Antenna TV does these credit crunches is to discourage people from recording the shows for a collection. At least that's the only reason that makes sense to me. Serious collectors want the episodes intact including the end credits.

The reason I think is because Johnny Carson must have been very expensive, they add one commercial per break per show to make up for it and they drag the show on a little longer so instead of deleting the end credits altogether or adding an extra minute, they credit crunch. I seriously doubt it's to discourage people from recording for their collections. They also said before that with the rising number of networks like that, the cost of programming is rising.

I've never seen this show before till just now! Watching it for the first time. I really like it! :) It's funny! ;) :D
It's really sad that show hasn't aired in syndication much over the years. It's like a lost classic.

Watching this show now is like opening a time capsule from over 50 years ago and finding the episodes inside the capsule. :lol:

The reason I think is because Johnny Carson must have been very expensive, they add one commercial per break per show to make up for it and they drag the show on a little longer so instead of deleting the end credits altogether or adding an extra minute, they credit crunch. I seriously doubt it's to discourage people from recording for their collections. They also said before that with the rising number of networks like that, the cost of programming is rising.

I could be wrong but I believe Antenna TV was already doing the credit crunching before they started airing Carson.

Anyway, it is what it is, I'm not recording these episodes, just watching them as they are aired, it's good to see these shows despite the annoying credit crunches.

I could be wrong but I believe Antenna TV was already doing the credit crunching before they started airing Carson.

Anyway, it is what it is, I'm not recording these episodes, just watching them as they are aired, it's good to see these shows despite the annoying credit crunches.

They were, but they had already acquired Carson when they started credit crunching.

I remember watching it on Nick At Night in 1998. My son was just born and I would do weekend duties. It was on very early in the morning. I was exhausted but watched.

They were, but they had already acquired Carson when they started credit crunching.

I don't believe it has anything to do with them acquiring Carson. I still think they do the split screen/credit crunches to discourage people from recording and collecting the shows they air.

I watched an episode of Hazel today, and during the final scene of the episode when the actors were still talking, the picture went to split screen and the audio to the Hazel episode was cut off. What was heard instead was the audio to the Antenna TV promo that was showing on the other side of the split screen. I couldn't believe it, but that's what they did.

Antenna TV airs Carson and they air a few 60's sitcoms that haven't been seen in a long time like It's About Time and Joey Bishop Show, but as long as they continue with the split screen/credit crunching, the station is a joke.

I don't believe it has anything to do with them acquiring Carson. I still think they do the split screen/credit crunches to discourage people from recording and collecting the shows they air.

I watched an episode of Hazel today, and during the final scene of the episode when the actors were still talking, the picture went to split screen and the audio to the Hazel episode was cut off. What was heard instead was the audio to the Antenna TV promo that was showing on the other side of the split screen. I couldn't believe it, but that's what they did.

Antenna TV airs Carson and they air a few 60's sitcoms that haven't been seen in a long time like It's About Time and Joey Bishop Show, but as long as they continue with the split screen/credit crunching, the station is a joke.


The Credit Crunch doesn't bother me at all!;) I'm just happy to be able to see old shows!:)

The Credit Crunch doesn't bother me at all!;) I'm just happy to be able to see old shows!:)

It would bother me if I wanted to record the shows, but I'm not interested to record them. I just watch the shows as they air with all their faults, split screening, credit crunching, and whatever other editing garbage they do to hack the episodes further. :lol:

It would bother me if I wanted to record the shows, but I'm not interested to record them. I just watch the shows as they air with all their faults, split screening, credit crunching, and whatever other editing garbage they do to hack the episodes further. :lol:


I just don't like the Cancer and Animal abuse commercials!:( But that is on all the stations like Antenna !:( And also playing the stupid old local news and taking shows off between 8-10PM ! :(

I don't believe it has anything to do with them acquiring Carson. I still think they do the split screen/credit crunches to discourage people from recording and collecting the shows they air.

I watched an episode of Hazel today, and during the final scene of the episode when the actors were still talking, the picture went to split screen and the audio to the Hazel episode was cut off. What was heard instead was the audio to the Antenna TV promo that was showing on the other side of the split screen. I couldn't believe it, but that's what they did.

Antenna TV airs Carson and they air a few 60's sitcoms that haven't been seen in a long time like It's About Time and Joey Bishop Show, but as long as they continue with the split screen/credit crunching, the station is a joke.

Whatever you want to think.

I don't believe it has anything to do with them acquiring Carson. I still think they do the split screen/credit crunches to discourage people from recording and collecting the shows they air.

I watched an episode of Hazel today, and during the final scene of the episode when the actors were still talking, the picture went to split screen and the audio to the Hazel episode was cut off. What was heard instead was the audio to the Antenna TV promo that was showing on the other side of the split screen. I couldn't believe it, but that's what they did.

Antenna TV airs Carson and they air a few 60's sitcoms that haven't been seen in a long time like It's About Time and Joey Bishop Show, but as long as they continue with the split screen/credit crunching, the station is a joke.

I agree. It is a joke. I saw 227 was crunched too last night so I will continue to boycott Antenna TV. Too bad they have all the good shows and MeTV has all the crummy ones. The crunching completely ruins it for me. And I'm not a fan of Carson either.

I just don't like the Cancer and Animal abuse commercials!:( But that is on all the stations like Antenna !:( And also playing the stupid old local news and taking shows off between 8-10PM ! :(

The bad commercials don't bother me nearly as much as the credit crunch. But I'd be mad too if my local station cut into the schedule with news repeats.

I agree. It is a joke. I saw 227 was crunched too last night so I will continue to boycott Antenna TV. Too bad they have all the good shows and MeTV has all the crummy ones. The crunching completely ruins it for me. And I'm not a fan of Carson either.
The ending was crunched but the beginning wasn't. The beginning crunches bother me more plus they don't start on time so I always have to adjust my DVR in the daytime.

I just don't like the Cancer and Animal abuse commercials!:(

I don't care for those either. I understand that TV stations must have their sponsors, but for a station like Antenna TV that airs old sitcoms and mostly lighthearted programs, serious commercials about cancer and animal abuse don't seem appropriate.

This seems very likely correct. A corporation is going to try to make as much money as it can. How much they can make off an additional Hazel commercial doesn't have anything to do with how much they're paying for the Carson episode 10 hours later.

I couldn't believe what Antenna did with the Hazel episode today. Going to split screen before the episode was over, then turning off the episodes audio so whatever the actors were saying couldn't be heard, and instead making the viewers listen to that Antenna TV promo that they play dozens of times every day anyway. :rolleyes:

I appreciate these retro TV stations and appreciate the old shows they air, but in my opinion do it right or don't do it at all.

Antenna TV's slogan is: "TV how it was meant to be". Really? No I don't think so. :lol:

Whatever you want to think.

I'm not saying you are wrong, it is possible that the split screen/credit crunches are related to the acquiring of Carson. I'm just skeptical that is the reason and have a different opinion.

Antenna TV is not going to come out and say "We do the split screen/credit crunches because we don't want people recording our shows" because that would be bad public relations. So instead they come up with a lame reason/excuse and say "Acquiring Carson was very expensive" or "The majority of our viewers aren't opposed to the split screen/credit crunches". LOL, do you see what I mean? :lol:

I'm not saying you are wrong, it is possible that the split screen/credit crunches are related to the acquiring of Carson. I'm just skeptical that is the reason and have a different opinion.

Antenna TV is not going to come out and say "We do the split screen/credit crunches because we don't people recording our shows" because that would be bad public relations. So instead they come up with a lame reason/excuse and say "Acquiring Carson was very expensive" or "The majority of our viewers aren't opposed to the split screen/credit crunches". LOL, do you see what I mean? :lol:

Well one excuse they had was "Viewers want a quicker transition b/w shows" and eventually, someone said that they said that it was because the costs of programming is going up for them.

I agree. It is a joke. I saw 227 was crunched too last night so I will continue to boycott Antenna TV. Too bad they have all the good shows and MeTV has all the crummy ones. The crunching completely ruins it for me. And I'm not a fan of Carson either.

I like to watch the 90 minute Carson shows from the 70's. The 1972 thru 1977 shows are my favorites. I'm not usually interested in the 60 minute shows so I seldom watch them.

Yeah the Animal Abuse and the St Judes I am so tired of. The one commercial I do like is the Shriners. Cute little Alex and his friends bring a tear to my eye and I have donated twice this past years to the shriners. The commercial is so well done showing how money can give love and help to them.Seeing the girl run. By the way does any one know who does the narration for the animal abuse. I wonder if the female voice is a well know name.

I'm watching Joey Bishop right now and he has a mustache in this ep. He looks really good with it! ;) Wow and his wife just said she didn't like it!:( Why?? It's very becoming on him! ;)

Prior to its recent airing I have never watched this show. I have watched a few of these episodes and have found them quite funny. I hope to view more.

I like this show for several reasons. I think Joey was well-suited to the sitcom format. I like the supporting cast as well. Several plots in the eps I've viewed have been pretty standard stuff, but the execution has been very good, with some funny stuff interjected.

I thought this series (as currently presented on Antenna) originally aired a little later than it did, since color normally means post-1965 -- but later I realized "not so," when watching what turned out to be a 1963 ep that referenced JFK and his family as clearly still intact.

I like this show for several reasons. I think Joey was well-suited to the sitcom format. I like the supporting cast as well. Several plots in the eps I've viewed have been pretty standard stuff, but the execution has been very good, with some funny stuff interjected.

I thought this series (as currently presented on Antenna) originally aired a little later than it did, since color normally means post-1965 -- but later I realized "not so," when watching what turned out to be a 1963 ep that referenced JFK and his family as clearly still intact.

Hi Biffbronson :wave: How are you doing?:)

I like this show for several reasons. I think Joey was well-suited to the sitcom format. I like the supporting cast as well. Several plots in the eps I've viewed have been pretty standard stuff, but the execution has been very good, with some funny stuff interjected.

I thought this series (as currently presented on Antenna) originally aired a little later than it did, since color normally means post-1965 -- but later I realized "not so," when watching what turned out to be a 1963 ep that referenced JFK and his family as clearly still intact.

I've been watching the episodes on Antenna TV, it's a fairly decent show but it seems to me the series goes downhill when Joey and his wife are expecting the baby and then when the baby comes along.

Joe Besser is funny as the building custodian, but he's loud and a little of his type of comedy goes a long way, so it's good that his scenes are usually brief.

Guy Marks seemed to overplay his role, I can see why he was replaced, Corbett Monica was an improvement.

I've been watching the episodes on Antenna TV, it's a fairly decent show but it seems to me the series goes downhill when Joey and his wife are expecting the baby and then when the baby comes along.

Joe Besser is funny as the building custodian, but he's loud and a little of his type of comedy goes a long way, so it's good that his scenes are usually brief.

Guy Marks seemed to overplay his role, I can see why he was replaced, Corbett Monica was an improvement.

I LOVE Jillson!!!! He's so funny!:D A roly poly jolly guy!!!:) I like all the scenes he is in!!! And I like the wife. She's a bubbly blonde like me!!:D

And Freddy and Larry , I don't find that much difference in the two of them!! They both are funny. I like them both!!!!;)

And the maid. I like how her and Joey bicker!!!:D :D

This series seemed to be about 10 years ahead of it's time, it could just have easily aired in the early and mid 70's instead of the early and mid 60's. I'm glad Antenna TV is airing the episodes because I've always been curious about this show. It's not the best show I've seen but it's interesting.

Joe Besser basically plays the same type of personality character like he did when he was with the Three Stooges.

The difference between Freddy and Larry is that Freddy is louder and more aggressive and he tends to be overbearing at times.

Joey's wife is OK, I think she was prettiest during the earlier episodes of the 2nd season. As the series continued she was often changing her hairstyle.

About the credit crunching, come on, folks, this isn't rocket science. Everything is about money. They have to run their promos somewhere. If they can crunch credits and run their promos during the credits and get the promos out of the way, that opens up more air time to sell to sponsors.


I like this show for several reasons. I think Joey was well-suited to the sitcom format. I like the supporting cast as well. Several plots in the eps I've viewed have been pretty standard stuff, but the execution has been very good, with some funny stuff interjected.

I thought this series (as currently presented on Antenna) originally aired a little later than it did, since color normally means post-1965 -- but later I realized "not so," when watching what turned out to be a 1963 ep that referenced JFK and his family as clearly still intact.

This series is unique in a couple respects. First, when it began in 1961, it had a completely different format than in subsequent seasons. Joey was not married, lived at home with his family (including pre-nose job Marlo Thomas as his sister), and worked (I think) in advertising. The show as in black and white. When it began its second season in 1962, it switched to color, and the format was revamped with Joey married and a talk show host. The reason it was in color so early on is, like Hazel and Bonanza, it aired on NBC, which was owned by RCA (manufacturer of color television sets). 1962 was the same year Hazel changed to color.

In 1964, NBC cancelled the show, but CBS picked it up for a 4th season, 1964-65. CBS was still broadcasting in black and white, so the move to CBS resulted in the show's production going back to black and white for the fourth and final season. I think this is the only instance of a TV show going from color to black and white.

My understanding is that Joey Bishop was very displeased with the first season episodes and never allowed them to be released into syndication. I will be interested to see if AntennaTV airs them. (I just saw snowpeck's other thread saying that AntennaTV will air the first season episodes. Have they done that yet?)

Incidentally, Danny Thomas was the executive producer of this series. He was also associate executive producer of The Dick Van Dyke Show, which launched the same year, 1961. One show took off and became a classic (Van Dyke). This series sort of ambled along and never became a huge hit. Its peak in the ratings was the first season (format #1) when it reached 24th place in the ratings. It was never again in the top 30 after that.

A bit of trivia: When the show began its second season with the new format, a new cast member, Guy Marks, joined that cast as Joey's manager. Before the season ended, Marks was replaced by Corbett Monica, who I think was an old friend of Bishop's. There were stories at the time that Bishop fired Marks because he was getting too many laughs and Bishop felt like he was playing Marks' second banana.

About the credit crunching, come on, folks, this isn't rocket science. Everything is about money. They have to run their promos somewhere. If they can crunch credits and run their promos during the credits and get the promos out of the way, that opens up more air time to sell to sponsors.




This series is unique in a couple respects. First, when it began in 1961, it had a completely different format than in subsequent seasons. Joey was not married, lived at home with his family (including pre-nose job Marlo Thomas as his sister), and worked (I think) in advertising. The show as in black and white. When it began its second season in 1962, it switched to color, and the format was revamped with Joey married and a talk show host. The reason it was in color so early on is, like Hazel and Bonanza, it aired on NBC, which was owned by RCA (manufacturer of color television sets). 1962 was the same year Hazel changed to color.

In 1964, NBC cancelled the show, but CBS picked it up for a 4th season, 1964-65. CBS was still broadcasting in black and white, so the move to CBS resulted in the show's production going back to black and white for the fourth and final season. I think this is the only instance of a TV show going from color to black and white.

My understanding is that Joey Bishop was very displeased with the first season episodes and never allowed them to be released into syndication. I will be interested to see if AntennaTV airs them. (I just saw snowpeck's other thread saying that AntennaTV will air the first season episodes. Have they done that yet?)

Incidentally, Danny Thomas was the executive producer of this series. He was also associate executive producer of The Dick Van Dyke Show, which launched the same year, 1961. One show took off and became a classic (Van Dyke). This series sort of ambled along and never became a huge hit. Its peak in the ratings was the first season (format #1) when it reached 24th place in the ratings. It was never again in the top 30 after that.

A bit of trivia: When the show began its second season with the new format, a new cast member, Guy Marks, joined that cast as Joey's manager. Before the season ended, Marks was replaced by Corbett Monica, who I think was an old friend of Bishop's. There were stories at the time that Bishop fired Marks because he was getting too many laughs and Bishop felt like he was playing Marks' second banana.
They aired about 10 of the first season's episodes during their New Years Day marathon. It's pretty good but I think I agree with Joey. The series got better with the change in format. Still it's good to see those episodes. Hope Antenna TV airs the rest of them.

If Joey Bishop fired Guy Marks from the show, I can understand why. Marks acting in the episodes was aggressive and over the top, it was like he thought he was the star of the show. I can see why he was replaced.

One of the episodes Antenna TV aired today, the one about Joey's mustache, Joey's wife (Abby Dalton) was looking good with the flip hairstyle. :)

They aired about 10 of the first season's episodes during their New Years Day marathon. It's pretty good but I think I agree with Joey. The series got better with the change in format. Still it's good to see those episodes. Hope Antenna TV airs the rest of them.

Danny Thomas did a backdoor pilot for this series on The Danny Thomas Show, just as he did for The Andy Griffith Show. That pilot, which was an extra on a Danny Thomas Show DVD I bought years ago, is the only thing I've ever seen from the first format. So I'm anxious to see episodes from S1. Thanks for the info.

If Joey Bishop fired Guy Marks from the show, I can understand why. Marks acting in the episodes was aggressive and over the top, it was like he thought he was the star of the show. I can see why he was replaced.

Several years ago I came across old newspaper articles about the Guy Marks/Joey Bishop drama. There was a feeling that Bishop thought Marks was getting too many laughs (kind of the opposite of the Mary Tyler Moore philosophy that allowed all her co-stars to thrive). They are in this thread: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129376&highlight=Guy+Marks

But I'll repost here:

Some articles allude to a big fight on the set, including this:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tS5mAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4IENAAAAIBAJ&pg=2094,4421555&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en Close to fisticuffs??? OMG

And this article, indicating Marks' acceptance by viewers is what led to his downfall. I suppose that was this writer's sly way of saying Joey canned him for getting too many laughs (the writer might have been facing a libel suit if he were more blunt):
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SMFRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6VYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6142,2012903&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

But here's one writer that came right out and said it: Joey doesn't like to surround himself with people who get too many laughs. The writer makes the point not only in regard to Marks, but Joe Flynn (from the first season) as well:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-rBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OQEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7291,3777172&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

Joe Flynn was apparently bitter about his departure:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oZYxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4VYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7186,103951&dq=joey+bishop+show&hl=en

Marks was not only popular with viewers, but also with the critics, this one crediting Marks with the improved new format of The Joey Bishop Show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dXdQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KBEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7091,3088061&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

So if those rumors are true, Joey apparently didn't like co-stars that got more laughs. But he tried to save face (for himself) regarding Marks, claiming he left the show because he couldn't take the sudden fame:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=B7FOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PAEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7092,3822278&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

That doesn't really seem plausible to me because it appears Guy Marks was immediately looking for a new TV job on The Jackie Gleason Show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_rBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PAEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7343,515418&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

So the rumors persisted that Joey Bishop fired people if he thought they got more laughs. Corbett Monica claimed that wasn't true, but of course, what was he going to say? He had his own livelihood to be concerned about:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P7pOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OgEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7424,2034453&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

Whatever happened, it seems they eventually made up (or found they really needed one another for a career boost or ratings) because several years later, Joey Bishop had Guy Marks as a guest a couple times on his talk show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XYRPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RAUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2701,5017833&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

Thanks LittleRickyII for posting those articles. I wonder if maybe Joey Bishop had some jealousy/insecurity issues if he thought Guy Marks was getting too many laughs. Marks was good on the show, but he played his character with an aggressive type personality while Joey Bishop's style was usually a little more low key, the aggressive one tends to get more laughs so I can see why there might have been conflict. When Corbett Monica joined the cast, his character was a little less boisterous.

It's good to see the episodes but it seems to me that Joey Bishop was an unusual choice to star in a sitcom. It's an interesting show, not great, not bad, I enjoy watching sitcoms from the 60's.

Thanks LittleRickyII for posting those articles. I wonder if maybe Joey Bishop had some jealousy/insecurity issues if he thought Guy Marks was getting too many laughs. Marks was good on the show, but he played his character with an aggressive type personality while Joey Bishop's style was usually a little more low key, the aggressive one tends to get more laughs so I can see why there might have been conflict. When Corbett Monica joined the cast, his character was a little less boisterous.

It's good to see the episodes but it seems to me that Joey Bishop was an unusual choice to star in a sitcom. It's an interesting show, not great, not bad, I enjoy watching sitcoms from the 60's.

You're very welcome. I agree with your sentiments about the show, and I suspect it's not as good as it could have been because of these apparent insecurity issues you mention. And it seems that Joey Bishop had similar issues with Joe Flynn that he had with Guy Marks.

A great sitcom never revolves around a single person for laughs. When I watch this show, I feel like the supporting cast isn't living up to their potential. Mary Treen's character seems like she's flirting on the edge of delivering some hilarious putdowns like Florence did to George Jefferson. I'm waiting for her to deliver that hilarious line but it doesn't happen. And Joe Besser (a former Stooge) was a great comic actor in his own right, but his involvement on the show seems so minimal. I haven't seen the show in awhile, but I don't recall any stories revolving around him. And Abby Dalton seems the most underutilized. I watch her expecting her to be animated and fun like Laura Petrie, on TDVDS, but it never happens. She's just sort of there to feed Joey Bishop his lines. It's a shame because if they had allowed these other actors to really blossom and let loose and exploit all their comedic potential, like an ensemble, some real chemistry might have developed between them, which really would only have elevated Joey Bishop and put him at the top of his game.

Think of how much funnier Lucille Ball was when she had Vivian Vance around (who was a pro at deadpan), or how much funnier Jackie Gleason was as Ralph when Alice was delivering a put-down, or when Art Carney as Ed Norton was driving Ralph crazy (Art Carney, when he was at his comedic best, made Gleason even more funny). Or when Carroll O'Connor as Archie came toe to toe with Jean Stapleton as Edith. The funnier these supporting actors were, the funnier they made their star. It's the same thing with Dick Van Dyke and his cast, and of course Mary Tyler Moore and TMTMS. I feel like that's what's missing from this show.

The subject of the star only looking better and being more successful when he allows his surrounding performers to shine as bright as possible reminds me of this classic theory in action when it comes to Jack Benny. Benny was (probably the first to do this) famous for allowing his co-stars (Phil Harris, Dennis Day, Rochester, Don the announcer, Mary the wife, and weekly big stars) to have the funniest lines in the show. Bob Newhart followed the Jack Benny example in the sitcoms he did, his '70's Bob Show and Newhart and all the rest of his later Newhart series all followed this rule, the surrounding performers often got the funnier lines. It takes a truly confident in your own talents & secure in your own skin kind of star to do this, Jack Benny and Bob Newhart are the best examples of this.

Joey Bishop seemed to be an apparently insecure and small minded individual who seemed to think if he wasn't the big funny man then the show couldn't possibly be good. An egotistical and angry man, this was also more than apparent in his real life personality on his own ABC late night talk show. I remember years ago watching his talk show and he seemed most unpleasant and negative.:(

You're very welcome. I agree with your sentiments about the show, and I suspect it's not as good as it could have been because of these apparent insecurity issues you mention. And it seems that Joey Bishop had similar issues with Joe Flynn that he had with Guy Marks.

A great sitcom never revolves around a single person for laughs. When I watch this show, I feel like the supporting cast isn't living up to their potential. Mary Treen's character seems like she's flirting on the edge of delivering some hilarious putdowns like Florence did to George Jefferson. I'm waiting for her to deliver that hilarious line but it doesn't happen. And Joe Besser (a former Stooge) was a great comic actor in his own right, but his involvement on the show seems so minimal. I haven't seen the show in awhile, but I don't recall any stories revolving around him. And Abby Dalton seems the most underutilized. I watch her expecting her to be animated and fun like Laura Petrie, on TDVDS, but it never happens. She's just sort of there to feed Joey Bishop his lines. It's a shame because if they had allowed these other actors to really blossom and let loose and exploit all their comedic potential, like an ensemble, some real chemistry might have developed between them, which really would only have elevated Joey Bishop and put him at the top of his game.

Think of how much funnier Lucille Ball was when she had Vivian Vance around (who was a pro at deadpan), or how much funnier Jackie Gleason was as Ralph when Alice was delivering a put-down, or when Art Carney as Ed Norton was driving Ralph crazy (Art Carney, when he was at his comedic best, made Gleason even more funny). Or when Carroll O'Connor as Archie came toe to toe with Jean Stapleton as Edith. The funnier these supporting actors were, the funnier they made their star. It's the same thing with Dick Van Dyke and his cast, and of course Mary Tyler Moore and TMTMS. I feel like that's what's missing from this show.


There were at least two episodes written for Joe Besser, Jillson And The Cinnamon Buns, and Jillson's Toupee. But Besser's main role on the show seemed to be to make brief appearances and perk up the proceedings with his style of humor.

Abby Dalton was OK on this show, I agree she could have been given more to do, but she does say an occasional funny line now and then.

Getting back to the Guy Marks situation: Marks role in the show was that of Joey's manager, which basically means he was Joey's boss, there is at least one episode where Joey refers to Marks as being his boss, so that might be another reason why that arrangement didn't work out. When Corbett Monica joined the cast, the role was changed and he worked for Joey as Joey's writer, which meant Joey was his boss and I imagine that arrangement worked out better.

I think the problem with this show isn't so much with the cast, they all perform well and it seems they did the best they could with the material they got to work with, and I think that's where the problem is, it's the writing. Not saying that the writing is bad, but it could have been more inspired, as it is it's basically your standard, 1960's sitcom fare. With improved writing, the series might have been able to reach it's full potential.

There is one Joey Bishop Show episode that is said to be lost and will never be seen. It's the episode that had Vaughn Meader as a guest star. He was popular in those days for being a John F. Kennedy impersonator. Sadly, the Kennedy assassination occurred a week after the episode was filmed. NBC never aired the episode and the print is said to have been destroyed.

Two episodes Antenna TV aired last night that I thought were pretty good, "Bobby Rydell Plugs Ellie's Song" and "Ellie Gives Joey First Aid". Both of these were good, and Ellie (Abby Dalton) has a larger role in these episodes compared to usual.

Two episodes Antenna TV aired last night that I thought were pretty good, "Bobby Rydell Plugs Ellie's Song" and "Ellie Gives Joey First Aid". Both of these were good, and Ellie (Abby Dalton) has a larger role in these episodes compared to usual.


OMG!!! I was LMAO last night at both of these eps.:lol: They were really good!!!:D ;)

OMG!!! I was LMAO last night at both of these eps.:lol: They were really good!!!:D ;)

LOL, yes both eps were good. The other episode from last night, "Joey Jr's TV Debut", I thought that one was pretty much a dud. I'll watch more episodes this week and see what I think.

LOL, yes both eps were good. The other episode from last night, "Joey Jr's TV Debut", I thought that one was pretty much a dud. I'll watch more episodes this week and see what I think.


I think all of them are pretty good!;) :D Another ep. that is really memorably funny is when Jillson gets a toupee !!!:D He gets a new confidence in himself suddenly having hair and thinks he is all that and starts slacking off at his maintenance job!!:D

I think all of them are pretty good!;) :D Another ep. that is really memorably funny is when Jillson gets a toupee !!!:D He gets a new confidence in himself suddenly having hair and thinks he is all that and starts slacking off at his maintenance job!!:D

I haven't seen the episode about Jillson's toupee, I'll be on the lookout for it.

The subject of the star only looking better and being more successful when he allows his surrounding performers to shine as bright as possible reminds me of this classic theory in action when it comes to Jack Benny. Benny was (probably the first to do this) famous for allowing his co-stars (Phil Harris, Dennis Day, Rochester, Don the announcer, Mary the wife, and weekly big stars) to have the funniest lines in the show. Bob Newhart followed the Jack Benny example in the sitcoms he did, his '70's Bob Show and Newhart and all the rest of his later Newhart series all followed this rule, the surrounding performers often got the funnier lines. It takes a truly confident in your own talents & secure in your own skin kind of star to do this, Jack Benny and Bob Newhart are the best examples of this.

Joey Bishop seemed to be an apparently insecure and small minded individual who seemed to think if he wasn't the big funny man then the show couldn't possibly be good. An egotistical and angry man, this was also more than apparent in his real life personality on his own ABC late night talk show. I remember years ago watching his talk show and he seemed most unpleasant and negative.:(

I think by far the best example of this is Mary Tyler Moore. Jack Benny and Bob Newhart had funny people around them saying funny things, but Benny and Newhart were still always at the center with the stories revolving around them and their interactions with the others. But Mary Tyler Moore took this to a whole new level: stories would revolve around the co-star and Mary would play a supporting role to them in THEIR story. For example, some episodes were about Lou (e.g., his breakup with Edie where the main scenes featured Lou and Edie, and Mary was nowhere to be seen); some were about Ted, some were about Phyllis, some were about Sue Ann, etc. Mary would take a back seat and her co-star would be the star of the show for that week. She was incredibly generous to her co-stars. Consequently, all those actors got to develop strong, memorable characters backed up by solid, gold standard comedy writing. This enabled these actors to be noticed by the powers that be. In fact, every one of Mary's co-stars ended up starring in their own series as a result of their work on The Mary Tyler Moore Show: Valerie Harper had her spin-off, Rhoda, Cloris Leachman had her spin-off, Phyllis. TMTMS ended it's run in 1977 and that fall Ed Asner had his spin-off, Lou Grant; Betty White was starring as a Sue Ann-type character in The Betty White Show (co-starring Georgia Engel); and Gavin McLeod was starring in The Love Boat. And a few months later, Ted Knight launched The Ted Knight Show. He was more successful a couple years later with Too Close for Comfort. And in 1980, even Georgia Engel was one of the main stars of the short-lived The Goodtime Girls. I can think of no show in history that managed to launch so many actors into their own series.

Several years ago I came across old newspaper articles about the Guy Marks/Joey Bishop drama. There was a feeling that Bishop thought Marks was getting too many laughs (kind of the opposite of the Mary Tyler Moore philosophy that allowed all her co-stars to thrive). They are in this thread: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129376&highlight=Guy+Marks

But I'll repost here:

Some articles allude to a big fight on the set, including this:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tS5mAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4IENAAAAIBAJ&pg=2094,4421555&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en Close to fisticuffs??? OMG

And this article, indicating Marks' acceptance by viewers is what led to his downfall. I suppose that was this writer's sly way of saying Joey canned him for getting too many laughs (the writer might have been facing a libel suit if he were more blunt):
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SMFRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6VYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6142,2012903&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

But here's one writer that came right out and said it: Joey doesn't like to surround himself with people who get too many laughs. The writer makes the point not only in regard to Marks, but Joe Flynn (from the first season) as well:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-rBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OQEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7291,3777172&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

Joe Flynn was apparently bitter about his departure:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oZYxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4VYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7186,103951&dq=joey+bishop+show&hl=en

Marks was not only popular with viewers, but also with the critics, this one crediting Marks with the improved new format of The Joey Bishop Show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dXdQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KBEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7091,3088061&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

So if those rumors are true, Joey apparently didn't like co-stars that got more laughs. But he tried to save face (for himself) regarding Marks, claiming he left the show because he couldn't take the sudden fame:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=B7FOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PAEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7092,3822278&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

That doesn't really seem plausible to me because it appears Guy Marks was immediately looking for a new TV job on The Jackie Gleason Show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_rBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PAEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7343,515418&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

So the rumors persisted that Joey Bishop fired people if he thought they got more laughs. Corbett Monica claimed that wasn't true, but of course, what was he going to say? He had his own livelihood to be concerned about:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P7pOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OgEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7424,2034453&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

Whatever happened, it seems they eventually made up (or found they really needed one another for a career boost or ratings) because several years later, Joey Bishop had Guy Marks as a guest a couple times on his talk show:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XYRPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RAUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2701,5017833&dq=guy-marks+joey-bishop&hl=en

I just came across this interview with Garry Marshall, who confirms what is indicated in those articles above: the environment on the set of this show was pretty toxic. Marshall talks about a lot of "fighting" and "drama and yelling and carrying on," and says it "reached a point where [Joey Bishop] fired everyone but me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFFozXkAM4w

If there was so much drama on the set of this show, I'm surprised it lasted for 4 years. From what I read about Joey Bishop, he was a perfectionist and serious much of the time, maybe that's why he wasn't an easy person to work with, there's a reason why he was called "The Frown Prince". :lol:

If there was so much drama on the set of this show, I'm surprised it lasted for 4 years. From what I read about Joey Bishop, he was a perfectionist and serious much of the time, maybe that's why he wasn't an easy person to work with, there's a reason why he was called "The Frown Prince". :lol:


It lasted four years, I guess, because Bishop was trying to keep it going for his own sake. But there was a lot of wreckage along the way. I'm not sure about him being a perfectionist because there is so much about the show that isn't perfect. From these articles and Garry Marshalls comments about all the fighting, and saying he didn't get fired because he "stayed out of [Joey Bishop's] way," it seems more than anything that he was just trying to make sure he got most of the attention.

I was watching this Password episode last night. I couldn't tell how much of this was his "act" and how much was real, but it made me uncomfortable watching his body language with his game partners, particularly Bill. He seemed to be taking the game way too seriously. Allen Ludden's comment at the end is also interesting -- wanting to make sure Joey is okay. I've watched a lot of these episodes, but I've never heard Ludden ask that before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egep3-NWaT4

It lasted four years, I guess, because Bishop was trying to keep it going for his own sake. But there was a lot of wreckage along the way. I'm not sure about him being a perfectionist because there is so much about the show that isn't perfect. From these articles and Garry Marshalls comments about all the fighting, and saying he didn't get fired because he "stayed out of [Joey Bishop's] way," it seems more than anything that he was just trying to make sure he got most of the attention.

I was watching this Password episode last night. I couldn't tell how much of this was his "act" and how much was real, but it made me uncomfortable watching his body language with his game partners, particularly Bill. He seemed to be taking the game way too seriously. Allen Ludden's comment at the end is also interesting -- wanting to make sure Joey is okay. I've watched a lot of these episodes, but I've never heard Ludden ask that before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egep3-NWaT4

That Password episode was interesting, thanks for sharing it. One thing is evident, Abby Dalton was better at Password than Joey Bishop was. :lol: Watching this, I wasn't really uncomfortable with Joey's body language, I think that was basically his normal behavior, but I did have the feeling that he didn't really want to be there and would rather have been somewhere else, it was like he did the show only out of obligation. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I got.

I wasn't really uncomfortable with Joey's body language, I think that was basically his normal behavior, but I did have the feeling that he didn't really want to be there and would rather have been somewhere else, it was like he did the show only out of obligation. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I got.

What made it uncomfortable to me is his behavior with his partner, Bill. He would only make eye contact with him during the moments when they were playing the game. If they lost a round, Bill would look at him but he wouldn't look back. He acted like he was pissed off the whole time.

You've probably heard the stories about the drama with Regis Philbin on his talk show, and walking off the show. Regis Philbin is such a gentleman and won't speak badly of anyone, so you have to read between the lines. But I was listening to an interview with him and I got the impression that that show wasn't such a happy environment, either.

What made it uncomfortable to me is his behavior with his partner, Bill. He would only make eye contact with him during the moments when they were playing the game. If they lost a round, Bill would look at him but he wouldn't look back. He acted like he was pissed off the whole time.

Maybe it was because he didn't really want to be there anyway. Maybe Joey thought to himself- "What the hell am I doing here on this stupid game show. I have other things to do". :lol:

You've probably heard the stories about the drama with Regis Philbin on his talk show, and walking off the show. Regis Philbin is such a gentleman and won't speak badly of anyone, so you have to read between the lines. But I was listening to an interview with him and I got the impression that that show wasn't such a happy environment, either.

Yes I've heard about the incident(s) with Regis Philbin on Joey's talk show. The talk show didn't last too long, 1967 to 69, Carson's show killed it in the ratings. Joey Bishop just might have been the type of person that wasn't easy to get along with. I am enjoying watching episodes of his sitcom, I've been wanting to see them for awhile so I'm glad that Antenna TV is airing them. And I now have the 2nd season DVD set so I'll be watching those too. Not the greatest sitcom, but it's interesting.

Yes I've heard about the incident(s) with Regis Philbin on Joey's talk show. The talk show didn't last too long, 1967 to 69, Carson's show killed it in the ratings. Joey Bishop just might have been the type of person that wasn't easy to get along with. I am enjoying watching episodes of his sitcom, I've been wanting to see them for awhile so I'm glad that Antenna TV is airing them. And I now have the 2nd season DVD set so I'll be watching those too. Not the greatest sitcom, but it's interesting.

I've had the 2nd season DVD ever since it came out about a dozen years ago (time flies). and I've been wanting to see the other seasons for the same reason as you: just that it's interesting, or a curiosity -- but not a great sitcom. I'll use Garry Marshall's word for the show: it's a "mess."

I'm interested to see what the first format was like, because this second format seems like Bishop just threw up his hands and gave up doing anything original. It's essentially a redo of The Danny Thomas Show, but without the children; both are shows about a celebrity entertainer who lives in Manhattan with his young wife, has a sassy maid, and a less-than-brilliant manager. Just switch out eccentric characters like Jose Jimenez or Uncle Tonoose with Jillson, and the adolescent kids for a baby. And of course, also like Danny Thomas, there are lots of celebrity guests. There are also some shades of The Dick Van Dyke Show in this show, which is maybe why I keep comparing, in my mind, Abby Dalton to Mary Tyler Moore. Which is an unfortunate comparison for Ms. Dalton. I was surprised to see her described on imdb as being known for her "award-worthy acting on TV comedy." I find her acting terrible on this show. But I'm thinking that maybe that has something to do with performing before a live audience; that might not be her thing. I watched her in an episode of Hennesey, which was a single camera sitcom, and she was perfectly fine. It was like I was watching a completely different actress.

I've had the 2nd season DVD ever since it came out about a dozen years ago (time flies). and I've been wanting to see the other seasons for the same reason as you: just that it's interesting, or a curiosity -- but not a great sitcom. I'll use Garry Marshall's word for the show: it's a "mess."

I'm interested to see what the first format was like, because this second format seems like Bishop just threw up his hands and gave up doing anything original. It's essentially a redo of The Danny Thomas Show, but without the children; both are shows about a celebrity entertainer who lives in Manhattan with his young wife, has a sassy maid, and a less-than-brilliant manager. Just switch out eccentric characters like Jose Jimenez or Uncle Tonoose with Jillson, and the adolescent kids for a baby. And of course, also like Danny Thomas, there are lots of celebrity guests. There are also some shades of The Dick Van Dyke Show in this show, which is maybe why I keep comparing, in my mind, Abby Dalton to Mary Tyler Moore. Which is an unfortunate comparison for Ms. Dalton. I was surprised to see her described on imdb as being known for her "award-worthy acting on TV comedy." I find her acting terrible on this show. But I'm thinking that maybe that has something to do with performing before a live audience; that might not be her thing. I watched her in an episode of Hennesey, which was a single camera sitcom, and she was perfectly fine. It was like I was watching a completely different actress.

I know that the 2nd season DVD was released in 2004, but I didn't consider buying it until recently when Antenna TV started airing the episodes. I watched many of the episodes during Antenna TV's New Years Day marathon, and found the show interesting. One reason I bought the DVD set is because I want to see the uncut episodes, Antenna TV edits the episodes. I imagine the DVD set has been out of print for awhile, so I thought I might have to pay a high price for it, but the one I purchased was only $28 including shipping. Not bad.

The 1st season format had Joey living with his mom (played by actress Madge Blake.) The episodes I saw on Antenna TV were OK, certainly different from the format of season 2 and forward, the most interesting thing for me was seeing Marlo Thomas prior to her role in That Girl. I can understand why Joey Bishop disliked the 1st season format and revamped the show for season 2.

I agree that with the 2nd season, the series took on a Danny Thomas Show vibe with a little Dick Van Dyke Show tossed in. I think the actors all do fine in their roles, I don't care all that much for Guy Marks and I can see why he was replaced, but I think they all did their best with the material they were given to work with. The writing in this series could have been better, some episodes are pretty funny but overall it's your standard 1960's sitcom fare.

As far as Abby Dalton goes, I think she does OK in this show, I can't say that her acting is terrible, she doesn't compare to Mary Tyler Moore but I don't think her acting is bad. Abby is underutilized in this show and usually isn't given a whole lot to do, but she does get a chance to shine occasionally in some episodes.

As far as Abby Dalton goes, I think she does OK in this show, I can't say that her acting is terrible, she doesn't compare to Mary Tyler Moore but I don't think her acting is bad. Abby is underutilized in this show and usually isn't given a whole lot to do, but she does get a chance to shine occasionally in some episodes.

Did you see the episode about the wig? OMG, horrible. No believability in her performance at all. But like I said, she seemed to do fine on Hennesey, so I think the live audience thing may have knocked her off her balance. I assume she did fine on Falcon Crest, but I never watched that show.

Did you see the episode about the wig? OMG, horrible. No believability in her performance at all. But like I said, she seemed to do fine on Hennesey, so I think the live audience thing may have knocked her off her balance. I assume she did fine on Falcon Crest, but I never watched that show.

Yes I've seen the wig episode. Abby's performance is OK, nothing special but she did alright, certainly not horrible. So far, I haven't seen what I would consider a poor performance by Abby Dalton on the Joey Bishop Show. She is adequate in the role. Not outstanding, but adequate. I don't see anywhere in the episodes that would indicate to me she wasn't comfortable working before a live audience. Maybe she wasn't all that comfortable working with Joey Bishop since he was said to be a difficult person to work with. I think where this show has it's problem is with the writing, the cast wasn't always given the best material to work with.

The first ep. today was hilarious!!!:D The vacation to the run down cabin! Really funny! :lol: And I would be like Larry, how he was bonding with the baby goat! That was cute! I love goats!:) Second ep. with Zsa Zsa, to me it wasn't that great. I like Zsa Zsa, so I think they could have done more with this ep.!:confused:

And I agree, I think I like Larry better than Freddy! But it's close, I like Freddy too!;)

The first ep. today was hilarious!!!:D The vacation to the run down cabin! Really funny! :lol: And I would be like Larry, how he was bonding with the baby goat! That was cute! I love goats!:) Second ep. with Zsa Zsa, to me it wasn't that great. I like Zsa Zsa, so I think they could have done more with this ep.!:confused:

And I agree, I think I like Larry better than Freddy! But it's close, I like Freddy too!;)

LOL, yes the episode where they go to the cabin was funny. It's nothing original and nothing that hasn't been done before, but it was still funny. Poor Joey, the well where they got their water worked for everyone but him, until the end when the water gushed out and soaked him. Then he called for help on the phone and Don Knotts showed up as the policeman. LOL, good episode that was a funny one. :lol:

The episode with Zsa Zsa, yeah that one is a bit of a clunker, not too great.

Freddy vs. Larry, both are funny, but Larry is friendlier, Freddy tends to be a smart-ass.

LOL, yes the episode where they go to the cabin was funny. It's nothing original and nothing that hasn't been done before, but it was still funny. Poor Joey, the well where they got their water worked for everyone but him, until the end when the water gushed out and soaked him. Then he called for help on the phone and Don Knotts showed up as the policeman. LOL, good episode that was a funny one. :lol:

The episode with Zsa Zsa, yeah that one is a bit of a clunker, not too great.

Freddy vs. Larry, both are funny, but Larry is friendlier, Freddy tends to be a smart-ass.

Yeah really, there are so many sitcoms where a nice vacation to a cozy cabin turns out to be an old broken down cabin I was like Here we go again!:rolleyes: But I figured being it was the Joey Bishop show it would be funny and it really was! :D ;)

I liked the episode that aired today with Jack Jones, it was a pretty good episode. I also liked the episode with Leo Durocher and Phil Harris, and the episode when Joey ends up with a bunch of dogs in his apartment is good also.

I liked the episode that aired today with Jack Jones, it was a pretty good episode. I also liked the episode with Leo Durocher and Phil Harris, and the episode when Joey ends up with a bunch of dogs in his apartment is good also.

I didn't see the one with the dogs! I'll look out for it next time! ;)

Did you like the second ep. with Shecky Greene? I thought it was pretty good. Still my fav.ep. so far has been the one in the cabin! ;) :D

Also anytime Hilda the maid and Joey are going at it insulting each other is hilarious! ;) :D :wave:

I didn't see the one with the dogs! I'll look out for it next time! ;)

Did you like the second ep. with Shecky Greene? I thought it was pretty good. Still my fav.ep. so far has been the one in the cabin! ;) :D

Also anytime Hilda the maid and Joey are going at it insulting each other is hilarious! ;) :D :wave:

The Shecky Greene ep. was OK, but I liked the one with Jack Jones better.

Yes, Joey and Hilda exchange barbs with each other now and then in the episodes. Jillson is funny too in his scenes and he adds energy to the show.

Abby Dalton, as I watch these season 3 episodes I find her increasingly attractive :eyes:, she was a hot honey back in the day. :D

The Shecky Greene ep. was OK, but I liked the one with Jack Jones better.

Yes, Joey and Hilda exchange barbs with each other now and then in the episodes. Jillson is funny too in his scenes and he adds energy to the show.

Abby Dalton, as I watch these season 3 episodes I find her increasingly attractive :eyes:, she was a hot honey back in the day. :D


Yeah Abby was a pretty lady!!;) I'm kind of finding Larry/ Corbett Monica nice looking !!:)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Corbett_Monica.JPG/220px-Corbett_Monica.JPG

I wasn't able to watch the episodes today because I was away for a meeting, but I've been watching most of the others. And I have seen all the Season Two episodes because I bought the DVD years ago. After watching about 50 episodes, I honestly don't think I've laughed once. You folks keep mentioning the cabin episode. That one did nothing for me. retroTVfan4ever said something about the writing being an issue with this show. On that I can agree, to a certain extent. And there is a name that pops up in the credits that may be a clue. And that is the name Milt Josefsberg. He had a way of stepping in and ruining various TV shows. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but it seems that when he showed up on a TV show, it suddenly started going downhill.

In 1964, he took over as script supervisor for The Lucy Show. That's the point when the quality of that show began to decline. The previous head writers, Madelyn Davis and Bob Carroll Jr., always made sure the scripts had some basis in reality. There was a logical reason for the things Lucy did. While sometimes they were maybe improbable events (like getting stuck in the shower and not being able to turn off the water), they were not impossible. But Milt Josefsberg reverted to the impossible, which made the show become silly rather than funny. All of a sudden, things started happening like Lucy turns on the water faucet and water shoots out of the oven. No matter how fouled up your plumbing might be, that cannot possibly happen. Bob and Madelyn would have never written something like that! But Josefsberg was constantly having things crash, explode, or someone getting doused with water.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of Josefsberg's work. Besides The Lucy Show, he also was brought on board to supervise scripts for All in the Family during the last year or two, and maybe Archie Bunker's Place, too. I've noticed that the dialogue on that show after he joined took on a set-up/punchline rhythm, which is not how people talk. Early All in the Family was realistic dialogue -- the way people talk. It was hilarious because of the personalities and situations, and avoided the artificial setup/punchline rhythm.

Josefsberg was also brought on board by Garry Marshall to work on Laverne & Shirley in 1980. That's when the format changed and the entire cast of characters were relocated from Milwaukee to Los Angeles. Ask any fan of that show how they feel about the quality of the show when it was relocated to L.A.! I suspect Josefsberg was behind that. He was involved on The Lucy Show when Lucy Carmichael and Mr. Mooney were moved to L.A. (also an unpopular change with fans), then it appears he did the same (bad) thing to Laverne & Shirley.

S3 of The Joey Bishop Show is overrun with guest stars. That may or may not have been Josefsberg's fault. I suppose maybe they thought it would help with the ratings, but it didn't and NBC cancelled the show. I think it actually hurt the show because it took away from interplay between the regular characters, diminished the relatability, and hurt character development on the show. That was also a problem with the later Lucy Show, and Here's Lucy.

Another issue with the writing (and having all these guest stars) is that there are constant references to celebrities from that era. That dates this show terribly. A young person watching this show is going to be totally lost when they make jokes about some 1960s celebrity. On The Dick Van Dyke Show they went to great lengths not to do things like that, so the scripts hold up today.

I think maybe there are also other structural issues with this show that you can't necessarily blame on the writing. Garry Marshall was one of the main writers, and during the time he was writing for this show he was also writing for The Dick Van Dyke Show and The Lucy Show. All of his work on The Dick Van Dyke Show was pretty solid. And for The Lucy Show, among others, he wrote the very funny roller skates episode. Probably everything he did for Dick Van Dyke worked well. It was more hit or miss with The Lucy Show, but none of his scripts (or anyone else's) seem to work well on The Joey Bishop Show. So my point is, if a writer like Garry Marshall can write scripts for Dick Van Dyke that result in funny episodes, but that same writer turns in scripts for Joey Bishop that do not result in funny episodes, there are issues beyond just the writing.

Yeah Abby was a pretty lady!!;) I'm kind of finding Larry/ Corbett Monica nice looking !!:)

I'm glad that Guy Marks didn't stay too long on this show. He is funny sometimes, but overall I find his character to be abrasive and annoying. When Corbett Monica took over, the character he played didn't have that abrasive demeanor and was more likable.

It seems that perhaps "Freddy Goes Highbrow" might have been the episode where Joey Bishop had seen enough, and it was out with Guy Marks and in with Corbett Monica. :lol:

I wasn't able to watch the episodes today because I was away for a meeting, but I've been watching most of the others. And I have seen all the Season Two episodes because I bought the DVD years ago. After watching about 50 episodes, I honestly don't think I've laughed once. You folks keep mentioning the cabin episode. That one did nothing for me. retroTVfan4ever said something about the writing being an issue with this show. On that I can agree, to a certain extent. And there is a name that pops up in the credits that may be a clue. And that is the name Milt Josefsberg. He had a way of stepping in and ruining various TV shows. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but it seems that when he showed up on a TV show, it suddenly started going downhill.

In 1964, he took over as script supervisor for The Lucy Show. That's the point when the quality of that show began to decline. The previous head writers, Madelyn Davis and Bob Carroll Jr., always made sure the scripts had some basis in reality. There was a logical reason for the things Lucy did. While sometimes they were maybe improbable events (like getting stuck in the shower and not being able to turn off the water), they were not impossible. But Milt Josefsberg reverted to the impossible, which made the show become silly rather than funny. All of a sudden, things started happening like Lucy turns on the water faucet and water shoots out of the oven. No matter how fouled up your plumbing might be, that cannot possibly happen. Bob and Madelyn would have never written something like that! But Josefsberg was constantly having things crash, explode, or someone getting doused with water.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of Josefsberg's work. Besides The Lucy Show, he also was brought on board to supervise scripts for All in the Family during the last year or two, and maybe Archie Bunker's Place, too. I've noticed that the dialogue on that show after he joined took on a set-up/punchline rhythm, which is not how people talk. Early All in the Family was realistic dialogue -- the way people talk. It was hilarious because of the personalities and situations, and avoided the artificial setup/punchline rhythm.

Josefsberg was also brought on board by Garry Marshall to work on Laverne & Shirley in 1980. That's when the format changed and the entire cast of characters were relocated from Milwaukee to Los Angeles. Ask any fan of that show how they feel about the quality of the show when it was relocated to L.A.! I suspect Josefsberg was behind that. He was involved on The Lucy Show when Lucy Carmichael and Mr. Mooney were moved to L.A. (also an unpopular change with fans), then it appears he did the same (bad) thing to Laverne & Shirley.

S3 of The Joey Bishop Show is overrun with guest stars. That may or may not have been Josefsberg's fault. I suppose maybe they thought it would help with the ratings, but it didn't and NBC cancelled the show. I think it actually hurt the show because it took away from interplay between the regular characters, diminished the relatability, and hurt character development on the show. That was also a problem with the later Lucy Show, and Here's Lucy.

Another issue with the writing (and having all these guest stars) is that there are constant references to celebrities from that era. That dates this show terribly. A young person watching this show is going to be totally lost when they make jokes about some 1960s celebrity. On The Dick Van Dyke Show they went to great lengths not to do things like that, so the scripts hold up today.

I think maybe there are also other structural issues with this show that you can't necessarily blame on the writing. Garry Marshall was one of the main writers, and during the time he was writing for this show he was also writing for The Dick Van Dyke Show and The Lucy Show. All of his work on The Dick Van Dyke Show was pretty solid. And for The Lucy Show, among others, he wrote the very funny roller skates episode. Probably everything he did for Dick Van Dyke worked well. It was more hit or miss with The Lucy Show, but none of his scripts (or anyone else's) seem to work well on The Joey Bishop Show. So my point is, if a writer like Garry Marshall can write scripts for Dick Van Dyke that result in funny episodes, but that same writer turns in scripts for Joey Bishop that do not result in funny episodes, there are issues beyond just the writing.

Yes, the 3rd season of Joey Bishop Show is loaded with guest stars. I agree that this was probably done in attempt to boost ratings for the show. Some of these episodes work pretty well, others not as much. I wonder if Joey Bishop had friendships with many of these guest stars who appeared on his show, I suppose that's probable too. Having all these guest stars does date the show, I can see how that might be a problem for younger people now trying to watch the show. But dated or not, I think the majority of the younger demographic isn't interested to watch this show anyway. Many of them probably don't even know who Joey Bishop was. For me, I recognize and am familiar with most of the guest stars, although in the one episode that aired recently, "Weekend In The Mountains", the guest stars Al Fisher and Lou Marks, I didn't recognize those guys and don't recall seeing them previously.

As far as Josefsberg is concerned, I think he just had the style of writing that either clicks with you or it doesn't. His outlandish type of comedy can be amusing if executed properly and if the viewer can stretch their mind and accept the lack of logic or realism in the material. Sometimes comedy can become stale if it's grounded too much in reality, so a little escapism can be refreshing. Silly humor can be funny as long as it stays within limits and not go too far, if allowed to go too far then it will become silly and unfunny.

For me, a good example of this is The Lucy Show episode "Lucy The Superwoman", the episode where Lucy suddenly develops superhuman strength. The first half or so of this episode is funny with several humorous visual gags, but during the episodes final scene in the lab is when things go over the top, it becomes silly and not that funny anymore. The episode was written by Elroy Schwartz, with Josefsberg as script consultant, so there you go. :lol:

Aside from the usually mediocre writing, another thing that I think hurt The Joey Bishop Show in the ratings department was where it was placed on the schedule. The 1st season is actually when the show had it's best ratings, NBC ran it on Wednesday nights following Wagon Train, which was the #1 show for that season. Joey Bishop Show finished in the top 30 at #24.

But then in the 2nd and 3rd seasons, NBC shifted The Joey Bishop Show to Saturday nights, not a night known for good ratings, and the show dropped out of the top 30.

And in the 4th and final season when The Joey Bishop Show moved to CBS, it was placed on Sunday nights, and ironically, the competition was NBC's #1 powerhouse Bonanza, so no chance for decent ratings there either.

Also, I think an issue might have been that Joey Bishop wasn't generally considered the type of person to have a sitcom, to me he seemed to be an unusual choice to star in a sitcom. But the show isn't without merit, it's a quick moving, energetic show and the actors excel in their roles even if they weren't always given the best scripts to work with. Overall it's an interesting 1960's sitcom, definitely worth giving a look.

Yes, the 3rd season of Joey Bishop Show is loaded with guest stars. I agree that this was probably done in attempt to boost ratings for the show. Some of these episodes work pretty well, others not as much. I wonder if Joey Bishop had friendships with many of these guest stars who appeared on his show, I suppose that's probable too. Having all these guest stars does date the show, I can see how that might be a problem for younger people now trying to watch the show. But dated or not, I think the majority of the younger demographic isn't interested to watch this show anyway. Many of them probably don't even know who Joey Bishop was. For me, I recognize and am familiar with most of the guest stars, although in the one episode that aired recently, "Weekend In The Mountains", the guest stars Al Fisher and Lou Marks, I didn't recognize those guys and don't recall seeing them previously.


I think it's okay to not know who Joey Bishop was. I don't think not knowing Bishop dates the show. As soon as a young person tunes in to an episode of this show, they will know, at least, that he's the star of this show. And it's not so much having guest stars, per se, that dates the show; it's the jokes written into the scripts about things that were known about those celebrities at that time -- things that might be forgotten by now. And for someone who doesn't know the celebrity at all, they certainly won't get the joke. But more than that, there are constant references in the scripts to other celebrities. In the Jack E. Leonard episode, for example, Ellie is reading a list of people she sent thank-you notes to: Danny Kaye, Bob Hope, Milton Berle. My niece and nephew visited me over the summer and I took them to a spot where there was a statue erected in honor of Bob Hope. They are both in their 20s, both very smart, but neither had a clue who Bob Hope was, and he was alive during their lifetime. And I am most certain they don't know who Danny Kaye was. This show is very heavy with references to famous celebrities at that time, something shows like Dick Van Dyke avoided doing.

Also, these constant celebrity references make the characters unrelatable. It seems that everyone Joey and Ellie knows, outside their maid, business manager, and building superintendent, is a celebrity.

As far as Josefsberg is concerned, I think he just had the style of writing that either clicks with you or it doesn't. His outlandish type of comedy can be amusing if executed properly and if the viewer can stretch their mind and accept the lack of logic or realism in the material. Sometimes comedy can become stale if it's grounded too much in reality, so a little escapism can be refreshing. Silly humor can be funny as long as it stays within limits and not go too far, if allowed to go too far then it will become silly and unfunny.

Well yes, that was his style, but it was a fairly passé style even for that time. And it's just not that clever. As for escapism, I Love Lucy, The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Honeymooners -- they were all escapism, but they were still grounded in reality. And very funny. That connection to reality is what made those shows so funny. If you're going to do the silly stuff, then just go all out with it, like The Munsters or I Dream of Jeannie, or The Three Stooges -- shows were nothing was supposed to resemble any kind of reality. But Joey Bishop and many of the later Lucy shows, and later Laverne & Shirley were trying to have it both ways: be believable one moment, then do something way out of the bounds of reality the next. It's mental whiplash for the viewer.


For me, a good example of this is The Lucy Show episode "Lucy The Superwoman", the episode where Lucy suddenly develops superhuman strength. The first half or so of this episode is funny with several humorous visual gags, but during the episodes final scene in the lab is when things go over the top, it becomes silly and not that funny anymore. The episode was written by Elroy Schwartz, with Josefsberg as script consultant, so there you go. :lol:

"Lucy, the Superwoman," ugh! The first time I saw that episode I had no idea who wrote it but I remember thinking, "This crapola belongs on Gilligan's Island. Then later I come to find out it was written by Sherwood Schwartz's brother! No wonder!

I agree about the lab scene. That scene totally loses the viewer with all that silliness of Lucy flying through the air. But even in earlier scenes, like her downing a drink through a straw in about two seconds flat and crushing cans of food in her grocery bag, it's eye rolling stuff.

That same season they had Lucy being shot out of a cannon, among other nonsense. That's what happens when Josefsberg is allowed to supervise the scripts.


Aside from the usually mediocre writing, another thing that I think hurt The Joey Bishop Show in the ratings department was where it was placed on the schedule. The 1st season is actually when the show had it's best ratings, NBC ran it on Wednesday nights following Wagon Train, which was the #1 show for that season. Joey Bishop Show finished in the top 30 at #24.

But then in the 2nd and 3rd seasons, NBC shifted The Joey Bishop Show to Saturday nights, not a night known for good ratings, and the show dropped out of the top 30.

And in the 4th and final season when The Joey Bishop Show moved to CBS, it was placed on Sunday nights, and ironically, the competition was NBC's #1 powerhouse Bonanza, so no chance for decent ratings there either.

Those are good points, but the truth is it never had any life in reruns, either. As for the first season, networks want their ratings to build over the course of the evening. If the lead-in is the number one show, with a 32 rating, it's a very bad thing when the next show -- Joey Bishop -- drops ten points to a 22 rating and a fall to 24th place. That simply means a lot of viewers were getting up and changing the channel because they didn't like his show.

The second season on NBC, its competition was The Defenders, which was also in its second season. And while competing against Joey Bishop that season, The Defenders saw its ratings rise compared to its first season: The Defenders went from #26 in 1961-'62 to #18 in 1962-'63.

Joey Bishop's competition was pretty weak in 1963-'64, the third season. But it didn't gain any ground from the year before, in spite of all those guest stars.

I can't explain what CBS was thinking by picking up the show then placing it against Bonanza for its fourth season. They couldn't have expected it to do that well. But the show also might have been losing against The ABC Sunday Night Movie, its other competition. If it was the #3 show out of three, then it was just a weak show.

Also, I think an issue might have been that Joey Bishop wasn't generally considered the type of person to have a sitcom, to me he seemed to be an unusual choice to star in a sitcom. But the show isn't without merit, it's a quick moving, energetic show and the actors excel in their roles even if they weren't always given the best scripts to work with. Overall it's an interesting 1960's sitcom, definitely worth giving a look.

Here I agree with you. And it gets to my point about why Garry Marshall could write a script for this show and it falls flat, but writes a script for The Dick Van Dyke Show and it shines. I think there was simply something wrong structurally with this show. Yes, there was energy, but it seemed misplaced. Joe Besser, for example, I think could have been a strength for this show, but for his type of comedy, he needed someone strong to counterbalance him; otherwise he was just way over the top. In a sense he reminds me a bit of Art Carney as Ed Norton. Not that his character is like Ed Norton, but there is a sort of over-the-top quality in both characters. But Ed Norton had Ralph Kramden as a counterbalance. So whenever Ed Norton was doing something off the wall, you're watching the frustration in Ralph slowly built until he explodes. Half the fun of watching Ed Norton's goofiness is seeing what it does to Ralph. But with Jillson, there is very little happening on the other end. Joey just sort of takes it. His reactions are too understated for Jillson, which leaves you a little disappointed, and perhaps finding Jillson a bit tiresome.

In reaction to "Little Ricky 2" statement (I don't know how to do those grayed out quote things, so I'll quote the old fashioned way)
"Joe Besser, for example, I think could have been a strength for this show, but for his type of comedy, he needed someone strong to counterbalance him; otherwise he was just way over the top."

I think a perfect example for this, better than Ed Norton, is Paul Lynde. When Paul Lynde was a guest star and had others reacting to his funny personality, as in Bewitched, he was at his funniest, and you looked forward to his next appearance. But when it was just Paul Lynde as the main feature as in his own Paul Lynde Show or that New Temperatures Rising program and also even in the several Paul Lynde TV specials, Paul Lynde simply was NOT funny. These are perfect examples of a little goes a long way, in small doses there's no one funnier, in unrestricted "star" mode they are painfully unfunny.:(

I think it's okay to not know who Joey Bishop was. I don't think not knowing Bishop dates the show. As soon as a young person tunes in to an episode of this show, they will know, at least, that he's the star of this show. And it's not so much having guest stars, per se, that dates the show; it's the jokes written into the scripts about things that were known about those celebrities at that time -- things that might be forgotten by now. And for someone who doesn't know the celebrity at all, they certainly won't get the joke. But more than that, there are constant references in the scripts to other celebrities. In the Jack E. Leonard episode, for example, Ellie is reading a list of people she sent thank-you notes to: Danny Kaye, Bob Hope, Milton Berle. My niece and nephew visited me over the summer and I took them to a spot where there was a statue erected in honor of Bob Hope. They are both in their 20s, both very smart, but neither had a clue who Bob Hope was, and he was alive during their lifetime. And I am most certain they don't know who Danny Kaye was. This show is very heavy with references to famous celebrities at that time, something shows like Dick Van Dyke avoided doing.

Also, these constant celebrity references make the characters unrelatable. It seems that everyone Joey and Ellie knows, outside their maid, business manager, and building superintendent, is a celebrity.



Well yes, that was his style, but it was a fairly passé style even for that time. And it's just not that clever. As for escapism, I Love Lucy, The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Honeymooners -- they were all escapism, but they were still grounded in reality. And very funny. That connection to reality is what made those shows so funny. If you're going to do the silly stuff, then just go all out with it, like The Munsters or I Dream of Jeannie, or The Three Stooges -- shows were nothing was supposed to resemble any kind of reality. But Joey Bishop and many of the later Lucy shows, and later Laverne & Shirley were trying to have it both ways: be believable one moment, then do something way out of the bounds of reality the next. It's mental whiplash for the viewer.




"Lucy, the Superwoman," ugh! The first time I saw that episode I had no idea who wrote it but I remember thinking, "This crapola belongs on Gilligan's Island. Then later I come to find out it was written by Sherwood Schwartz's brother! No wonder!

I agree about the lab scene. That scene totally loses the viewer with all that silliness of Lucy flying through the air. But even in earlier scenes, like her downing a drink through a straw in about two seconds flat and crushing cans of food in her grocery bag, it's eye rolling stuff.

That same season they had Lucy being shot out of a cannon, among other nonsense. That's what happens when Josefsberg is allowed to supervise the scripts.




Those are good points, but the truth is it never had any life in reruns, either. As for the first season, networks want their ratings to build over the course of the evening. If the lead-in is the number one show, with a 32 rating, it's a very bad thing when the next show -- Joey Bishop -- drops ten points to a 22 rating and a fall to 24th place. That simply means a lot of viewers were getting up and changing the channel because they didn't like his show.

The second season on NBC, its competition was The Defenders, which was also in its second season. And while competing against Joey Bishop that season, The Defenders saw its ratings rise compared to its first season: The Defenders went from #26 in 1961-'62 to #18 in 1962-'63.

Joey Bishop's competition was pretty weak in 1963-'64, the third season. But it didn't gain any ground from the year before, in spite of all those guest stars.

I can't explain what CBS was thinking by picking up the show then placing it against Bonanza for its fourth season. They couldn't have expected it to do that well. But the show also might have been losing against The ABC Sunday Night Movie, its other competition. If it was the #3 show out of three, then it was just a weak show.



Here I agree with you. And it gets to my point about why Garry Marshall could write a script for this show and it falls flat, but writes a script for The Dick Van Dyke Show and it shines. I think there was simply something wrong structurally with this show. Yes, there was energy, but it seemed misplaced. Joe Besser, for example, I think could have been a strength for this show, but for his type of comedy, he needed someone strong to counterbalance him; otherwise he was just way over the top. In a sense he reminds me a bit of Art Carney as Ed Norton. Not that his character is like Ed Norton, but there is a sort of over-the-top quality in both characters. But Ed Norton had Ralph Kramden as a counterbalance. So whenever Ed Norton was doing something off the wall, you're watching the frustration in Ralph slowly built until he explodes. Half the fun of watching Ed Norton's goofiness is seeing what it does to Ralph. But with Jillson, there is very little happening on the other end. Joey just sort of takes it. His reactions are too understated for Jillson, which leaves you a little disappointed, and perhaps finding Jillson a bit tiresome.

You made some interesting points, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Since Joey Bishop had that deadpan style, makes me wonder if Joe Besser was added to the cast to liven up the proceedings. Scenes he's in are usually brief, he does his routine and then leaves. It does seem a little awkward because there's usually little counter reaction to what he does. It's like you said, Norton had Kramden, but Jillson had basically no one. :confused: :(

Jack E. Leonard is another celebrity from that time that I'm not familar with. I hadn't known about him until I saw his episode on The Joey Bishop Show.

You made some interesting points, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Since Joey Bishop had that deadpan style, makes me wonder if Joe Besser was added to the cast to liven up the proceedings. Scenes he's in are usually brief, he does his routine and then leaves. It does seem a little awkward because there's usually little counter reaction to what he does. It's like you said, Norton had Kramden, but Jillson had basically no one. :confused: :(

Jack E. Leonard is another celebrity from that time that I'm not familar with. I hadn't known about him until I saw his episode on The Joey Bishop Show.

There's that old showbiz adage, never underestimate the value of a good straight man. Joey Bishop's deadpan is kind of similar to Bob Newhart's. Bob Newhart was surrounded by some pretty offbeat characters on his show, but those characters did not have quite the same energy as Joe Besser. To keep up with Joe Besser, Joey Bishop needed to up the energy quite a bit. Of course, that wouldn't be his style. IMO, it's a mismatch.

Re: Jack E. Leonard, that's a name that I am only vaguely familiar with. He's one of those names I know I've heard before, but then forgotten. He's a bit before my time.

I'm going to take back (a little) some of my previous comments about Abby Dalton. I've seen most of the recent batch of episodes on AntennaTV, and her acting has been just fine. Still no Mary Tyler Moore, but not bad. However, I still feel the same about her performance in certain earlier episodes, particularly the one about the wig. Maybe it had something to do with what was going on behind the scenes those particular weeks. When she was getting upset at Joey, her reactions didn't ring true with me. But Mary Tyler Moore's "Oh Rob!" would always strike the right chord. Watching MTM, I can quickly forget I'm watching a fictional character.

There's that old showbiz adage, never underestimate the value of a good straight man. Joey Bishop's deadpan is kind of similar to Bob Newhart's. Bob Newhart was surrounded by some pretty offbeat characters on his show, but those characters did not have quite the same energy as Joe Besser. To keep up with Joe Besser, Joey Bishop needed to up the energy quite a bit. Of course, that wouldn't be his style. IMO, it's a mismatch.

Re: Jack E. Leonard, that's a name that I am only vaguely familiar with. He's one of those names I know I've heard before, but then forgotten. He's a bit before my time.

I'm going to take back (a little) some of my previous comments about Abby Dalton. I've seen most of the recent batch of episodes on AntennaTV, and her acting has been just fine. Still no Mary Tyler Moore, but not bad. However, I still feel the same about her performance in certain earlier episodes, particularly the one about the wig. Maybe it had something to do with what was going on behind the scenes those particular weeks. When she was getting upset at Joey, her reactions didn't ring true with me. But Mary Tyler Moore's "Oh Rob!" would always strike the right chord. Watching MTM, I can quickly forget I'm watching a fictional character.

Joe Besser's Jillson character had a wife in this show, but she was never seen, she was only heard occasionally shouting for Jillson through the vent/register that led to Joey's apartment. :lol: That was a strange gimmick, I think maybe they gave up on it after awhile because I haven't seen them do that gag lately and Antenna TV is almost done with the 3rd season episodes.

Abby Dalton does fine in this show, she's adequate, I'm glad your opinion of her has improved. I like the flip hairstyle she has lately in these 3rd season episodes, very attractive, it resembles the style Mary Tyler Moore had at the time except Abby is blonde and Mary is brunette.

The Joey Bishop Show seemed to be a show that was always in transition and those in charge of the show were seldom sure what direction to go with it. I wouldn't define it as a mess, but it sure did lack in consistency. The 2nd season format was much different from the 1st, then the 3rd season is the one with all the guest stars (especially from episode 10 and forward) and in the 4th season I think there were fewer guest stars and they tried to revert back to the season 2 format. The series is also unique for the fact it started off in black and white for the 1st season, then in color for the middle two seasons, then back to black and white again for the last season because of the move to CBS. It's an interesting series and I think the main thing it offers watching the episodes today is the nostalgia value. It rates high in the nostalgia department even if the scripts aren't always that great.

Joe Besser's Jillson character had a wife in this show, but she was never seen, she was only heard occasionally shouting for Jillson through the vent/register that led to Joey's apartment. :lol: That was a strange gimmick, I think maybe they gave up on it after awhile because I haven't seen them do that gag lately and Antenna TV is almost done with the 3rd season episodes.

Abby Dalton does fine in this show, she's adequate, I'm glad your opinion of her has improved. I like the flip hairstyle she has lately in these 3rd season episodes, very attractive, it resembles the style Mary Tyler Moore had at the time except Abby is blonde and Mary is brunette.

The Joey Bishop Show seemed to be a show that was always in transition and those in charge of the show were seldom sure what direction to go with it. I wouldn't define it as a mess, but it sure did lack in consistency. The 2nd season format was much different from the 1st, then the 3rd season is the one with all the guest stars (especially from episode 10 and forward) and in the 4th season I think there were fewer guest stars and they tried to revert back to the season 2 format. The series is also unique for the fact it started off in black and white for the 1st season, then in color for the middle two seasons, then back to black and white again for the last season because of the move to CBS. It's an interesting series and I think the main thing it offers watching the episodes today is the nostalgia value. It rates high in the nostalgia department even if the scripts aren't always that great.

"Mess" is Garry Marshall's description of the show, not mine. He was an insider, so I'll take him at his word. Maybe it wasn't a mess to some of the viewers, but for those working on the show, that seems to be the feeling among at least some of them. But with the changes in format and focus -- S1: format one; S2: format two (few guest stars); S3: format 2 (loads of guest stars); S4: format two (few guest stars) -- and the changes in cast and crew, at a minimum it's inconsistent if not a bit messy.

Re: Joe Besser and his off-camera wife, it might have been fun to bring her on camera and expand both of their roles. She might have been that straight person needed to play opposite Joe Besser.

Does anyone know how the pickup by CBS comes about? Did Danny Thomas just have a ton of influence there (maybe even have a commitment to program a half hour) and put it behind the show? Or did he convince them that Joey's show was exactly like his and it would become successful on CBS just as his show did? I've never really understood the dynamic that runs between Thomas-Sheldon Leonard-Carl Reiner, but if the group acted in concert they'd have tremendous leverage on CBS.

That's an interesting question and something I've wondered about: Why would CBS pick up a show that struggled for three years on NBC and was never a hit? I know that Danny Thomas had been trying for a several years to phase himself out of his own show so that he could focus on other things. He had Pat Harrington play a character who married his daughter on the show, and initially there was hope that they would take over The Danny Thomas Show, with a new name, I'm sure, but it didn't work out. Then he had Pat Carroll and Sid Melton taking starring roles for a number of episodes one season, alternating with Danny Thomas and Marjorie Lord, whose characters were traveling in Europe: some episodes that season were about the Pat Carroll/Sid Melton characters back in NY watching over Danny's kids; other episodes were about Danny and his wife in Europe. And I guess somehow it was decided that Melton and Carroll would not or should not take over his show, either. So The Danny Thomas Show ended in 1964 with no successor. And that's the same year that CBS picked up the not-too-popular The Joey Bishop Show. I suspect that's not a coincidence.

CBS also picked up Hazel from NBC, in 1965, but the difference is Hazel had been a huge hit for a few years. CBS maybe figured that, with a tweak in the format, they could make Hazel a big hit again. But with The Joey Bishop Show never having been much of a hit on NBC, it does seem like they had an obligation to Danny Thomas and gave him a means of leaving his own show whilte still having a production on CBS. Interestingly, during that single season on CBS, Rusty Hamer appeared in three episodes of The Joey Bishop Show, reprising his character from The Danny Thomas Show.

Re: Joe Besser and his off-camera wife, it might have been fun to bring her on camera and expand both of their roles. She might have been that straight person needed to play opposite Joe Besser.

Yep I was thinking the same thing. Joey and Jillson occasionally exchange dialogue in the episodes, but the chemistry on screen between the two actors usually isn't that good.

And when Joey and Jillson communicate through the vent/register, I always think- Why are they shouting through the vent, why don't they use the phone? Joey has a phone in his apartment, does Jillson not have a telephone? :crazy: :lol: Obviously, someone involved with the show thought this would be a funny gag. It's funny for a time or two but wears thin fairly quick.

My guess is that CBS picking up the Bishop show for it's final season was due to some deal with Danny Thomas. Picking up a show cast-off from another network smacks of desperation, especially one that consistently failed to deliver the numbers. Hazel's situation was a bit different - the show's ratings had declined in it's last season on NBC, but the deciding factor in cancelling Hazel was probably the fact that the entire cast were due to get hefty salary increases in the final year of their contracts. CBS only agreed to take Hazel if they reduced the show's budget, so Don Defore and Whitney Blake were fired and cheaper replacements were hired.

I've watched the Bishop show on Antenna and just don't see his appeal. The show seems thrown together, the writing is weak and the supporting cast is unremarkable. Apparently, I'm not the only one. On their Facebook page a few weeks ago, in response to a complaint about the show, they stated that in the next schedule change, (we) would be seeing less of the show, so it must not be pulling the numbers in syndication either.

I've watched the Bishop show on Antenna and just don't see his appeal. The show seems thrown together, the writing is weak and the supporting cast is unremarkable. Apparently, I'm not the only one. On their Facebook page a few weeks ago, in response to a complaint about the show, they stated that in the next schedule change, (we) would be seeing less of the show, so it must not be pulling the numbers in syndication either.

Well in that case I guess I should continue to record and save the episodes in the event Antenna pulls the show from the schedule. I know it isn't the greatest show, but I see a certain charm and nostalgia to it, and that's what appeals to me. And I tend to like 1960's sitcoms anyway, there are some I don't like but I enjoy the majority of them.

I imagine the 2nd season DVD of Joey Bishop Show had low sales and that's likely why additional DVD's haven't been issued.

Antenna TV started airing the 4th season episodes today, the first one was about the move to CBS. It was funny at the end when Joey revealed what time slot CBS gave him, Sunday nights at 9:30, and then Larry said "Do you know what that means? You're up against Bonanza!" :eek: Then they all started crying. LOL, poor Joey, he just couldn't catch a break. At least they tried to have a sense of humor about it and wrote it into the episode. :lol:

Antenna TV started airing the 4th season episodes today, the first one was about the move to CBS. It was funny at the end when Joey revealed what time slot CBS gave him, Sunday nights at 9:30, and then Larry said "Do you know what that means? You're up against Bonanza!" :eek: Then they all started crying. LOL, poor Joey, he just couldn't catch a break. At least they tried to have a sense of humor about it and wrote it into the episode. :lol:

I saw this episode. I could tell a very distinct change in the tone of the show. Granted, this is only one episode, but it was very different -- in a positive way -- from what I've seen from seasons 2 and 3. This is the first time I've seen the main characters interact with one another in a genuine way, and the first time looking at Joey and Ellie that they actually seem like a married couple. The dialogue and behavior was so different. The previous two seasons these characters -- Ellie, Larry, Hilda and Jillson -- seemed more like props than people. Part of this change in dynamic is that the episode wasn't revolving around some guest star who was suddenly Joey's best friend for the week; rather it revolved around people who were actually part of his life. I think that the guest-star-of-the-week theme (and the silly gags) ruined this show in S2 and S3. Focusing on these central characters instead, and avoiding the silly gags, the show seems to work. At least it does in this first S4 episode. I also noticed that Milt Josefsberg has been replaced by Charles Stewart as producer and script consultant. I'm guessing Mr. Stewart was the big change agent here. I hope the other S4 episodes are as good as this one. Of course, even so, it was too little too late for this series.

BTW, I also saw the preceding episode with The Andrews Sisters, which ended S3 and the NBC run. Pretty bad and par for the course for that season. No laughs. But in the S4 openers, I actually laughed a couple times, which is a first for me watching this show. One time was the moment when Joey is leaving the apartment to go for his meeting at CBS. Hilda, Ellie and Larry are standing at the door seeing him off. Joey says, "How about a kiss?" Hilda gives him a peck on the cheek. Joey responds: "I meant my wife." Hilda then gives Ellie a kiss. Haha! :)

I saw this episode. I could tell a very distinct change in the tone of the show. Granted, this is only one episode, but it was very different -- in a positive way -- from what I've seen from seasons 2 and 3. This is the first time I've seen the main characters interact with one another in a genuine way, and the first time looking at Joey and Ellie that they actually seem like a married couple. The dialogue and behavior was so different. The previous two seasons these characters -- Ellie, Larry, Hilda and Jillson -- seemed more like props than people. Part of this change in dynamic is that the episode wasn't revolving around some guest star who was suddenly Joey's best friend for the week; rather it revolved around people who were actually part of his life. I think that the guest-star-of-the-week theme (and the silly gags) ruined this show in S2 and S3. Focusing on these central characters instead, and avoiding the silly gags, the show seems to work. At least it does in this first S4 episode. I also noticed that Milt Josefsberg has been replaced by Charles Stewart as producer and script consultant. I'm guessing Mr. Stewart was the big change agent here. I hope the other S4 episodes are as good as this one. Of course, even so, it was too little too late for this series.

BTW, I also saw the preceding episode with The Andrews Sisters, which ended S3 and the NBC run. Pretty bad and par for the course for that season. No laughs. But in the S4 openers, I actually laughed a couple times, which is a first for me watching this show. One time was the moment when Joey is leaving the apartment to go for his meeting at CBS. Hilda, Ellie and Larry are standing at the door seeing him off. Joey says, "How about a kiss?" Hilda gives him a peck on the cheek. Joey responds: "I meant my wife." Hilda then gives Ellie a kiss. Haha! :)

Yes the 4th season opener was good. Will have to see how the rest of the season goes, some episodes will likely be better than others, but I think at this point the show relies a little less on the guest star appearances.

I thought the episode with the Andrews Sisters was OK, I like the Andrews Sisters anyway, iconic singing trio from the 1940's war era.

I am familiar with many of the guest stars who appeared on this show although there are a few I hadn't heard of before. Some of the guest star episodes are good, others aren't that great, but I will say that what all these guest star episodes do, with various entertainers and singers appearing, is make the show seem more like a half hour mini variety show and less like a sitcom.

Yes the 4th season opener was good. Will have to see how the rest of the season goes, some episodes will likely be better than others, but I think at this point the show relies a little less on the guest star appearances.

I thought the episode with the Andrews Sisters was OK, I like the Andrews Sisters anyway, iconic singing trio from the 1940's war era.

I am familiar with many of the guest stars who appeared on this show although there are a few I hadn't heard of before. Some of the guest star episodes are good, others aren't that great, but I will say that what all these guest star episodes do, with various entertainers and singers appearing, is make the show seem more like a half hour mini variety show and less like a sitcom.

I love The Andrews Sisters, but that episode stunk, just like most of those guest-star focused episodes that Milt Josefberg was involved in. The plot was so thin and obvious. You are correct that episodes like this seem more like a variety show. But that's the problem. It adds to that inconsistency. When the viewer tunes into a sitcom, they want a sitcom, and they want laughs. But that wasn't present in this episode.

I watched the two S4 episodes that aired today. So thus far I have seen three S4 episodes and wow, what a difference! It's almost like I'm watching a completely different show. It must have something to do with Charles Stewart being in charge at this point, and Milt Josefsberg being relieved of his duties. Josefsberg at this point (1964) had left this show and gone straight over to The Lucy Show where he began destroying that series. (I assume Joey Bishop had fired him.)

All three of these S4 Joey episodes shown so far have been funny. They have all made me laugh, while all the S3 episodes I saw were really lame and I never laughed once. But I am finding these S4 episodes to be well crafted and funny. There are no silly gimmicks (which is just lazy writing). Instead, the writing is sharp and the plots take you places you don't expect, whereas the S3 episodes had worn-out formulaic plots you could predict a mile away.

The first episode today, "Joey, the Patient," had a scene with Joey in the nursery talking to his toddler son. It was very sweet. Scenes like that, and the ones where he was interacting with his wife, who was trying to calm his nerves before his surgery, give this show warmth and heart, and transform the characters from caricatures to relatable people. That's what draws viewers in and makes them want to invest in these characters -- to go along for the ride, accept them, which enables us to laugh at their foibles and misadventures. You need that tangible, relatable, believable aspect. Incidentally, the boy who came into Joey's hospital room and gave him the coloring book was Keith Thibodeaux who played Little Ricky on I Love Lucy.

The second episode guest starred Oscar Levant and was exemplary of how an episode with a major guest star should be crafted. Rather than a story totally revolving around the guest star, it was really a story about Ellie. Oscar Levant was central to the plot, but the plot was about how he was impacting Ellie and Joey's home life as a guest in their apartment, with Joey and Ellie bickering over her bringing him into their home. Most of those S3 guest star episodes, on the other hand, were all about the guest stars. Ellie and the others were nothing but props and were mostly inconsequential to the plot. Huge difference.

In these S4 episodes, there is finally a feeling of getting to know these characters as people. It's so refreshing. And Abby Dalton is being given an opportunity to show her funny side. Too bad most viewers were unaware of these changes as they were turned in to #1-rated Bonanza.

I love The Andrews Sisters, but that episode stunk, just like most of those guest-star focused episodes that Milt Josefberg was involved in. The plot was so thin and obvious. You are correct that episodes like this seem more like a variety show. But that's the problem. It adds to that inconsistency. When the viewer tunes into a sitcom, they want a sitcom, and they want laughs. But that wasn't present in this episode.

I watched the two S4 episodes that aired today. So thus far I have seen three S4 episodes and wow, what a difference! It's almost like I'm watching a completely different show. It must have something to do with Charles Stewart being in charge at this point, and Milt Josefsberg being relieved of his duties. Josefsberg at this point (1964) had left this show and gone straight over to The Lucy Show where he began destroying that series. (I assume Joey Bishop had fired him.)

All three of these S4 Joey episodes shown so far have been funny. They have all made me laugh, while all the S3 episodes I saw were really lame and I never laughed once. But I am finding these S4 episodes to be well crafted and funny. There are no silly gimmicks (which is just lazy writing). Instead, the writing is sharp and the plots take you places you don't expect, whereas the S3 episodes had worn-out formulaic plots you could predict a mile away.

The first episode today, "Joey, the Patient," had a scene with Joey in the nursery talking to his toddler son. It was very sweet. Scenes like that, and the ones where he was interacting with his wife, who was trying to calm his nerves before his surgery, give this show warmth and heart, and transform the characters from caricatures to relatable people. That's what draws viewers in and makes them want to invest in these characters -- to go along for the ride, accept them, which enables us to laugh at their foibles and misadventures. You need that tangible, relatable, believable aspect. Incidentally, the boy who came into Joey's hospital room and gave him the coloring book was Keith Thibodeaux who played Little Ricky on I Love Lucy.

The second episode guest starred Oscar Levant and was exemplary of how an episode with a major guest star should be crafted. Rather than a story totally revolving around the guest star, it was really a story about Ellie. Oscar Levant was central to the plot, but the plot was about how he was impacting Ellie and Joey's home life as a guest in their apartment, with Joey and Ellie bickering over her bringing him into their home. Most of those S3 guest star episodes, on the other hand, were all about the guest stars. Ellie and the others were nothing but props and were mostly inconsequential to the plot. Huge difference.

In these S4 episodes, there is finally a feeling of getting to know these characters as people. It's so refreshing. And Abby Dalton is being given an opportunity to show her funny side. Too bad most viewers were unaware of these changes as they were turned in to #1-rated Bonanza.

I agree the 4th season so far overall is good. I didn't care all that much for the Oscar Levant episode, but I thought the one when Joey gets a tonsillectomy was pretty funny. Only 3 episodes in, but there is a noticeable difference in how the show is constructed, it's more of an ensemble comedy in the traditional sense, compared to the guest star theme that dominated much of season 3. Will have to see how the rest of season 4 goes. Looking forward to see more episodes next week.

Regarding Milt Josefsberg, I don't think he was THAT bad, I find humor in some of his comedy, but I can understand that his style isn't for everyone.

CBS did have a development deal with Danny Thomas, and in 1964 he forced them to take the show that they had passed on three years earlier. They wanted to spend as little as possible and kill it quickly - that's why it was up against Bonanza and back in B&W.

The show is fascinating to me because of all of the revamps and manipulations to get it and keep it on the air. CBS passed on the original pilot, it went to NBC with a slight revamp, then another revamp mid first season, then a major revamp in the second season, then a major character was replaced mid second season, then the move (back) to CBS and back to B&W filming for the final year. Garry Marshall said that it was constant turmoil behind the scenes, with Joey Bishop firing people left and right.

I didn't find Joey Bishop all that funny or likeable. Son of a gun? That's supposed to be funny?

CBS did have a development deal with Danny Thomas, and in 1964 he forced them to take the show that they had passed on three years earlier. They wanted to spend as little as possible and kill it quickly - that's why it was up against Bonanza and back in B&W.

The show is fascinating to me because of all of the revamps and manipulations to get it and keep it on the air. CBS passed on the original pilot, it went to NBC with a slight revamp, then another revamp mid first season, then a major revamp in the second season, then a major character was replaced mid second season, then the move (back) to CBS and back to B&W filming for the final year. Garry Marshall said that it was constant turmoil behind the scenes, with Joey Bishop firing people left and right.

I didn't find Joey Bishop all that funny or likeable. Son of a gun? That's supposed to be funny?

"Son of a gun" was Bishop's catchphrase. Not exactly a funny phrase, but catchphrases aren't always expected to produce laughs, they are generally spoken to get some type of positive reaction from people. For example, when Jackie Gleason said his catchphrases "How sweet it is" or "And away we go".

I'm glad that Antenna TV is airing these Joey Bishop episodes. I don't like that they trim a few minutes off the episodes to fit in more commercial time, also don't like the split screen nonsense they do during the closing credits. But aside from that I enjoy watching the episodes. When season 4 is done, I hope they will air the 1st season episodes instead of reverting back to season 2, will see what happens.

I never saw the Joey Bishop Show but I do remember Joey guest hosting for Johnny Carson quite often for a few year period, sometimes for Johnny's entire two week vacations before Joan Rivers and David Brenner took over as regular guest hosts. As a host of a similar show, to me he seemed the most natural in the position, although not nearly as funny or clever as Carson.

Re: Jack E. Leonard, that's a name that I am only vaguely familiar with. He's one of those names I know I've heard before, but then forgotten. He's a bit before my time.



I've seen him on an old What's My Line episode. He's a loudmouthed cigar chewing blowhard who can't be shut up. Rude as all getout, like Groucho Marx. Can't see how he'd appeal to anybody.

CBS did have a development deal with Danny Thomas, and in 1964 he forced them to take the show that they had passed on three years earlier. They wanted to spend as little as possible and kill it quickly - that's why it was up against Bonanza and back in B&W.

This doesn't make sense, why would CBS pick up the show and invest money in it with full intention of sabotaging it by putting it up against tough competition? Were they mad because Danny Thomas forced the show on them? Sounds crazy to me. :crazy: :lol:

This doesn't make sense, why would CBS pick up the show and invest money in it with full intention of sabotaging it by putting it up against tough competition? Were they mad because Danny Thomas forced the show on them? Sounds crazy to me. :crazy: :lol:

I read not long ago on Facebook that Danny Thomas & Sheldon Leonard took lower licensing fees from CBS for Andy Griffith & Dick Van Dyke's sitcoms in order to get CBS to take Joey Bishop's sitcom for 1 more season. By having 1 more season of Joey, Thomas & Leonard wanted to get close to the magic number of 100 episodes for syndication. The show had a total of 97 episodes on NBC, and CBS added 24 more. However, this calculation ended up not working out for the show because S1 was not syndicated to local stations. Having part of the episodes in B&W and part in color I'm sure hurt syndication as well.

I read not long ago on Facebook that Danny Thomas & Sheldon Leonard took lower licensing fees from CBS for Andy Griffith & Dick Van Dyke's sitcoms in order to get CBS to take Joey Bishop's sitcom for 1 more season. By having 1 more season of Joey, Thomas & Leonard wanted to get close to the magic number of 100 episodes for syndication. The show had a total of 97 episodes on NBC, and CBS added 24 more. However, this calculation ended up not working out for the show because S1 was not syndicated to local stations. Having part of the episodes in B&W and part in color I'm sure hurt syndication as well.

Interesting information, thanks for sharing. One correction, the CBS season has 26 episodes, not 24.

I know they edit the episodes and I don't like their credit crunches, but aside from that I'm glad Antenna TV has brought the Joey Bishop Show out from the mothballs and airing the series for those interested to watch it, including the long unseen 1st season. :)

I just wanted to give folks an update in case they didn't see it.

Roku has a free web service called "The Roku Channel" which is on PC or various devices such as the Fire TV Stick or even iOS.

While messing around on my phone, I stumbled upon the entire 4 seasons of The Joey Bishop Show, which I never actually thought was going to be on a streaming website.

They also have I'd say like 12 or so full The Carol Burnett Shows but they aren't continuous but random episodes.

Slowly but surely, my fantasy of virtually any classic/older true crime show you want on various ad-supported platforms such as Roku, Pluto, XUMO, Tubi, Shoutfactory TV, Popcornflix, and even The Big 5 TV networks, is become a reality. :)