the last thing I want to do is start this well-worn debate again (but I'm sure I will) but last night I saw an interview on TV with Norman Lear and he said that GOOD TIMES IS a spin-off of MAUDE.

There, that's all I'm saying on the subject, but like I said I know a lot of you are gonna chime in with your own opinions.

It is and you can put it to rest.

Good Times is indeed a spin off from Maude.

That is an undeniable fact.

But you know those deniers!

the last thing I want to do is start this well-worn debate again (but I'm sure I will) but last night I saw an interview on TV with Norman Lear and he said that GOOD TIMES IS a spin-off of MAUDE.

There, that's all I'm saying on the subject, but like I said I know a lot of you are gonna chime in with your own opinions.


I wish I was the interviewer so I could ask him how

I wish I was the interviewer so I could ask him how


Esther Rolle was Maude's maid, Florida Evans. That's how.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068103/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Esther Rolle was Maude's maid, Florida Evans. That's how.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068103/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast


But how she end up poor in the ghetto on the other side of the country?

But how she end up poor in the ghetto on the other side of the country?


Since they put Maude back on, I've been watching it sometimes. I've noticed Florida is different in Maude than in Good Times ! She is more wisecracking and more assertive ! ;) In Good times she's more docile and housewife - ish! ;)

Same name ,looks the same. But she's in a whole new location, different personality. Husband's name is different, and he is a poorer man than Florida from Maude's husband! ;)

I guess technically it's a spinoff? But realistically it is very debatable ! :confused:

Since they put Maude back on, I've been watching it sometimes. I've noticed Florida is different in Maude than in Good Times ! She is more wisecracking and more assertive ! ;) In Good times she's more docile and housewife - ish! ;)

Same name ,looks the same. But she's in a whole new location, different personality. Husband's name is different, and he is a poorer man than Florida from Maude's husband! ;)

I guess technically it's a spinoff? But realistically it is very debatable ! :confused:

That's what I want to ask Norman Lear. LOL

1. Why wasn't the husband kept the same?

2. Why were they in a different city?

Good Times is definitely, 100%, positively a spin-off. If Norman Lear calls it a spin-off, it's a spin-off.

Dictionaries, encyclopedias, media sources all give definitions for what a spinoff is. What Norman Lear says can only evidence what he intended, but the show either is or isn't a "spinoff" depends on what the industry considers to be a spinoff.


Good Times is a sitcom about a black family living in the ghetto

Esther Rolle was Maude's maid, Florida Evans. That's how.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068103/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
Correct and Esther Rolle was a different Florida Evans on Good Time. :D:

Our education system and political parties are going to love you, but you're going to be useless to literally everybody else.

What would you say if Mr. Lear called it a spinoff some days, but said some other days that it's not a spinoff?
What would you say if Mr. Lear called it a spinoff, but someone else in the creative or production chain said it's not?
What if Mr. Lear called it a gobo? Would you go around saying if Norman Lear calls it a gobo, it's a gobo?

If you want to state whether a show is a spinoff or not, you really should require yourself to have some idea of what a spinoff is.

I know more than you do. And obviously you have no better thing to do than to act ignorant.

Our education system and political parties are going to love you, but you're going to be useless to literally everybody else.

What would you say if Mr. Lear called it a spinoff some days, but said some other days that it's not a spinoff?
What would you say if Mr. Lear called it a spinoff, but someone else in the creative or production chain said it's not?
What if Mr. Lear called it a gobo? Would you go around saying if Norman Lear calls it a gobo, it's a gobo?

If you want to state whether a show is a spinoff or not, you really should require yourself to have some idea of what a spinoff is.


Don't take that poster, he/she has a history of drug use

Don't take that poster, he/she has a history of drug use

Reported thank you

see, I told you my post would stir up this debate again! Just like the debates of: Ginger or Mary Ann, Jennifer or Bailey, which is the better Darrin...etc. this will go on and on and on....

see, I told you my post would stir up this debate again! Just like the debates of: Ginger or Mary Ann, Jennifer or Bailey, which is the better Darrin...etc. this will go on and on and on....

Please keep doing it:)

But how she end up poor in the ghetto on the other side of the country?


Of course it's a spinoff. It was the same character played by the same actress. Just like Maude was a spinoff from All in the Family. Even more so because Florida was a regular on Maude. They ended up in Chicago (not the other side of the country on my map) in a housing project because they wanted to make the show different and Norman Lear wanted to further his political agenda and showing poor blacks in housing projects was what he wanted to do.

As to why they changed her husband, they were now casting for a co-starring role as opposed to a limited role. Maybe you don't remember this but there was an episode on All in the Family which showed Lionel's interracial in-laws to be. When the Jefferson's got their own show different actors played the in-laws. That didn't change the fact that The Jefferson's was a spinoff of All in the Family.

Of course it's a spinoff. It was the same character played by the same actress. Just like Maude was a spinoff from All in the Family. Even more so because Florida was a regular on Maude. They ended up in Chicago (not the other side of the country on my map) in a housing project because they wanted to make the show different and Norman Lear wanted to further his political agenda and showing poor blacks in housing projects was what he wanted to do.

As to why they changed her husband, they were now casting for a co-starring role as opposed to a limited role. Maybe you don't remember this but there was an episode on All in the Family which showed Lionel's interracial in-laws to be. When the Jefferson's got their own show different actors played the in-laws. That didn't change the fact that The Jefferson's was a spinoff of All in the Family.


Why would a family relocate to another city to live in the ghetto? Talk to me???

Don't listen to him/her. He/she doesn't know how to accept defeat.

Why would a family relocate to another city to live in the ghetto? Talk to me???


It's a fictional TV show.

It's made up.

I's not real.

It's a fictional TV show.

It's made up.

I's not real.



Exactly, you can't answer. Not a spinoff

As to why they changed her husband, they were now casting for a co-starring role as opposed to a limited role. Maybe you don't remember this but there was an episode on All in the Family which showed Lionel's interracial in-laws to be. When the Jefferson's got their own show different actors played the in-laws. That didn't change the fact that The Jefferson's was a spinoff of All in the Family.
The husband was not played by a different actor. It was always John Amos. They changed his name, not the actor. I agree with Solomon. The show didn't seem like a spin off to me either. The only thing that stayed the same was the name "Florida" and the actress Ester Rolle. Maude is never mentioned in Good Times ever and there is no reason why a family would move from New York to Chicago just to live in a new ghetto. What the hell is that all about? And why would "Henry" leave his fireman job so he could be a dishwasher/gas attendant/car washer in Chicago? Makes absolutely no sense. Nothing will ever convince me that Good Times was a spin off of Maude.

The husband was not played by a different actor. It was always John Amos. They changed his name, not the actor. I agree with Solomon. The show didn't seem like a spin off to me either. The only thing that stayed the same was the name "Florida" and the actress Ester Rolle. Maude is never mentioned in Good Times ever and there is no reason why a family would move from New York to Chicago just to live in a new ghetto. What the hell is that all about? And why would "Henry" leave his fireman job so he could be a dishwasher/gas attendant/car washer in Chicago? Makes absolutely no sense. Nothing will ever convince me that Good Times was a spin off of Maude.


They tried to make a indirect reference to Maude in the 5th episode but didn't mention maude's name or where she worked


"when I was a maid, I was the best damm maid there was"

:lol:

They tried to make a indirect reference to Maude in the 5th episode but didn't mention maude's name or where she worked


"when I was a maid, I was the best damm maid there was"

:lol:
Yeah, that was pretty lame because GT Florida could have been a maid anywhere. If it was really a spin off, she would have said something like "when I was a maid in NY for Maude Findlay........."

Yeah, that was pretty lame because GT Florida could have been a maid anywhere. If it was really a spin off, she would have said something like "when I was a maid in NY for Maude Findlay........."


Exactly, lol

Exactly, lol
Yup, and I thought of more proof that it's not a spin off.
Florida and Willona mention that they knew each other as teenagers.
Willona is from Chicago, yet Florida was from New York. :confused:

Yup, and I thought of more proof that it's not a spin off.
Florida and Willona mention that they knew each other as teenagers.
Willona is from Chicago, yet Florida was from New York. :confused:


It's a fictional TV show.

It's made up.

I's not real.

It's one thing to like a TV show. It's another to treat it as if it's real life.

Yup, and I thought of more proof that it's not a spin off.
Florida and Willona mention that they knew each other as teenagers.
Willona is from Chicago, yet Florida was from New York. :confused:


LOL, another one. :wave: No spinoff

It's a fictional TV show.

It's made up.

I's not real.

It's one thing to like a TV show. It's another to treat it as if it's real life.


ANd you are a stupid poster who needs to go to another website. BYE!

Don't anyone listen to the poster. He/she would lose their head if it wasn't on straight. :lol: :lol: :lol:

^^^ That's right. Why listen to facts and reason when we have your brilliance on the subject? :rolleyes:
btw, where is your proof that GT is a spin off? Oh, don't have any? I'm shocked. At least me and Sol provided solid proof that GT was NOT written as a spin off.
And your contribution????? :lol:

^^^ That's right. Why listen to facts and reason when we have your brilliance on the subject? :rolleyes:
btw, where is your proof that GT is a spin off? Oh, don't have any? I'm shocked. At least me and Sol provided solid proof that GT was NOT written as a spin off.
And your contribution????? :lol:

What contribution? A bunch of stupid inconsistencies between Maude and GT? Let me tell you something: what exactly do you see on the back cover of Good Times season sets? "Rare spin-off of a spin-off" that's what! Case closed. It's a spin-off.

The husband was not played by a different actor. It was always John Amos. They changed his name, not the actor. I agree with Solomon. The show didn't seem like a spin off to me either. The only thing that stayed the same was the name "Florida" and the actress Ester Rolle. Maude is never mentioned in Good Times ever and there is no reason why a family would move from New York to Chicago just to live in a new ghetto. What the hell is that all about? And why would "Henry" leave his fireman job so he could be a dishwasher/gas attendant/car washer in Chicago? Makes absolutely no sense. Nothing will ever convince me that Good Times was a spin off of Maude.

Yeah, that was pretty lame because GT Florida could have been a maid anywhere. If it was really a spin off, she would have said something like "when I was a maid in NY for Maude Findlay........."

Yup, and I thought of more proof that it's not a spin off.
Florida and Willona mention that they knew each other as teenagers.
Willona is from Chicago, yet Florida was from New York. :confused:

Oh, yeah, why should I believe FACTS from the show's creator, the show's cast, and literally thousands of articles. You have all the proof I need. :rolleyes:

^^^ Enjoying the summer break from high school, little girl?

You have no idea how old I am so just shut it.

The Imdb calls it a spin-off. Esther Rolle, John Amos, Bea Arthur and the rest of the cast called it a spin-off. Norman Lear himself calls it a spin-off. So... you may THINK it's not a spin-off, but there's a crapload of evidence piling up against you.

^ Several times you stated that you are a teenager, so YOU shut it, okay, sweetie? :lol:

^ Several times you stated that you are a teenager, so YOU shut it, okay, sweetie? :lol:

And how exactly old are you, because you act like you are a crazed 4-year-old. :lol: :lol: :lol:

How often do you go see that psychiatrist again, sweetie? :lol:

The Imdb calls it a spin-off. Esther Rolle, John Amos, Bea Arthur and the rest of the cast called it a spin-off. Norman Lear himself calls it a spin-off. So... you may THINK it's not a spin-off, but there's a crapload of evidence piling up against you.
You know what, kid? I don't care who says what because Good Times was never written as a spin off. Now think about that while you're enjoying your juice boxes during summer break from high school.

You know what, kid? I don't care who says what because Good Times was never written as a spin off. Now think about that while you're enjoying your juice boxes during summer break from high school.

Okay, whatever. You tell that to your boss at that greasy restaurant you work at. :rolleyes: Bub-bye.

And how exactly old are you, because you act like you are a crazed 4-year-old. :lol: :lol: :lol:

How often do you go see that psychiatrist again, sweetie? :lol:
I'm old enough to remember Good Times during its original run.

hey c'mon people! I never expected this to get nasty.

Maybe we can call this a hybrid spin-off,since there are too much coincidence
for it to be a random show to just come along. Florida is a rare name.
The name Florida & the same actress together,what are the odds?Fact,Norman
Lear decided to make the main character Florida Evans from his series Maude.

Maybe we can call this a hybrid spin-off,since there are too much coincidence
for it to be a random show to just come along. Florida is a rare name.
The name Florida & the same actress together,what are the odds?Fact,Norman
Lear decided to make the main character Florida Evans from his series Maude.


It will never be a spinoff because of these factors

1. No link between's Maude's location in NY and Evans location in Chicago

2. Husband doesn't have the same name

3. This was the only so called Lear spinoff without a pilot episode.


All his other spinoffs had set up episodes

Maude
Jeffersons
Gloria
Checking In

hey c'mon people! I never expected this to get nasty.

I will send you 10 bucks if you post this topic every couple of months:)

maybe I'll take you up on that! I just might just so I can have everyone go at it again:lol:

What does the pilot episode have to do with it ?
What are set up episodes ?

let's keep the debate civil please people.

in my OFFICIAL post on the subject, I declare that Goot Times IS a spin-off; because Norman Lear had wanted to spin-off the character of Florida Evans, as a vehicle for Ether Rolle; any other extraneous details of her life and the background of the show are irrelevant and not essential to the character's existence.

- it required no link to Maude or the location in NY

- the husband doesn't have to have the same name, or even be the same actor

- the existence of a pilot episode was not necessary because the network was already familiar with the character, Ether Rolle, and Norman Lear's body of work, so they did not need one - and a pilot is not a prerequisite to the definition of a spin-off.

this entire argument all boils down to semantics and the subjective definition of a loosely-defined terminology, so don't get your panties in a bunch, as long as you enjoy the show, who cares?

Sorry for bumping this, but the comments on here have got me. :rotflmao:

Sorry for bumping this, but the comments on here have got me. :rotflmao:

The debate will never end, but IMO, Good Times was a spinoff.

End of story.

Watch the Norman Lear 100 year celebration tonight!

I know there's been a lot more debate on this than these 4 pages, over the years. They're probably in the middle of threads about other things on the shows.

Anyway looking at the old posts from 2016 it seems the only "proof" that GT is a spin off is that Lear says so, article writers say so (probably because Lear says so), the back of some DVD boxes say so (see first reason), and cast members say so (again, first reason). Oops, and she has the same name.

Somehow she magically ended up in Chicago looking like she'd been in the apt. for more than a few days or months, no sign of a move, kids who seemed like they'd always been there, a husband with a different first name, a BFF she'd known for years who's from Chicago. Maybe they were pen pals LOL!

If it was a spin off, at least set it in New York!

The debate will never end, but IMO, Good Times was a spinoff.

End of story.

Watch the Norman Lear 100 year celebration tonight!
Will do.

I know there's been a lot more debate on this than these 4 pages, over the years. They're probably in the middle of threads about other things on the shows.

Anyway looking at the old posts from 2016 it seems the only "proof" that GT is a spin off is that Lear says so, article writers say so (probably because Lear says so), the back of some DVD boxes say so (see first reason), and cast members say so (again, first reason). Oops, and she has the same name.

Somehow she magically ended up in Chicago looking like she'd been in the apt. for more than a few days or months, no sign of a move, kids who seemed like they'd always been there, a husband with a different first name, a BFF she'd known for years who's from Chicago. Maybe they were pen pals LOL!

If it was a spin off, at least set it in New York!
Good Times IS a spinoff, it’s just that there are a few inconsistencies, so say what you wanna say, but Good Times was indeed spun off from Maude.

The debate will never end, but IMO, Good Times was a spinoff.

End of story.

Watch the Norman Lear 100 year celebration tonight!



I didnt know anything about this, thank you for mentioning it

The debate will never end, but IMO, Good Times was a spinoff.

End of story.

Watch the Norman Lear 100 year celebration tonight!

Since Jimmy Kimmel is involved I dont think I wanna watch lol

I know there's been a lot more debate on this than these 4 pages, over the years. They're probably in the middle of threads about other things on the shows.

Anyway looking at the old posts from 2016 it seems the only "proof" that GT is a spin off is that Lear says so, article writers say so (probably because Lear says so), the back of some DVD boxes say so (see first reason), and cast members say so (again, first reason). Oops, and she has the same name.

Somehow she magically ended up in Chicago looking like she'd been in the apt. for more than a few days or months, no sign of a move, kids who seemed like they'd always been there, a husband with a different first name, a BFF she'd known for years who's from Chicago. Maybe they were pen pals LOL!

If it was a spin off, at least set it in New York!



It wasnt set in NY because it was about Eric Monte's life growing up in Chicago in the 1960's. So that right there confirms its not a spinoff

I didnt know anything about this, thank you for mentioning it

You're welcome. Glad to spread the word.

Will do.


Good Times IS a spinoff, it’s just that there are a few inconsistencies, so say what you wanna say, but Good Times was indeed spun off from Maude.

Good Times is similar to the nighttime soap Knots Landing, in that it was originally conceived by creator David Jacobs as a standalone show. It was rejected by the network.

When Dallas became a surprise hit, the network asked Jacobs to develop another show for them. He took his old KL script, incorporated the Dallas characters Gary and Valene Ewing, and Knots Landing became a spinoff.

The daytime soap Texas was a spinoff of Another World, in that they took characters Iris and Reena and maybe a few others and moved them off to that state. Iris (an Another
World villainess played by the late Beverlee McKinsey) moved to be near her son, Dennis.

But unlike Good Times, they wrote the move into the script and acknowledged it. On Good Times Florida was just "there" in Chicago, and no move from New York state was acknowledged or mentioned.

You're welcome. Glad to spread the word.

Should have been on CBS

Should have been on CBS

I agree. It's odd that CBS isn't airing this, given that's where Lear had all his major hits.

I don't understand the business arrangements that led to this.

I agree. It's odd that CBS isn't airing this, given that's where Lear had all his major hits.

I don't understand the business arrangements that led to this.

Looked so stupid being on ABC when all the shows they was singing was on CBS

I think it's a spinoff. They just tweaked some things, shows do this all the time. It's not unheard-of that the Evans family could have MOVED from NY to Chicago, could have had to do with cost of living, or maybe James took a job in Chicago he thought would be better, but it later fell through, I do remember they talking about when Florida and James first got married they lived in an apartment even worse than the one they're in on the show.... I THOUGHT it was even mentioned once on Good Times that Florida used to be a housekeeper, I could be wrong wrong, but I thought it was mentioned that she used to clean houses.

About James/Henry's name change.... I don't think that's enough to say it's not a spin-off..... I do know Henry is James's father's name, so perhaps Jame's full name was "Henry James"..... and over time he just started going by James, maybe it had to do with the contempt he felt toward his father

I think it's a spinoff. They just tweaked some things, shows do this all the time. It's not unheard-of that the Evans family could have MOVED from NY to Chicago, could have had to do with cost of living, or maybe James took a job in Chicago he thought would be better, but it later fell through, I do remember they talking about when Florida and James first got married they lived in an apartment even worse than the one they're in on the show.... I THOUGHT it was even mentioned once on Good Times that Florida used to be a housekeeper, I could be wrong wrong, but I thought it was mentioned that she used to clean houses.

About James/Henry's name change.... I don't think that's enough to say it's not a spin-off..... I do know Henry is James's father's name, so perhaps Jame's full name was "Henry James"..... and over time he just started going by James, maybe it had to do with the contempt he felt toward his father




Its not a spinoff because the show is about Eric Monte's life in Chicago

Why did someone start this up again LOL
Bea Arthur said it was a spin off
Jimmy Walker said it was a spin off in the script he got from Norman Lear
Florida became so popular on Maude they gave her a show of her own.
When a character leaves a popular show and has their own thats called a spin off. Even the creators and actors of the show say it was a spin off.
But you wont convince people that say otherwise. They hang their hat that Florida's husband had a different name and it was in another city. LOL if those details disqualify it from a spin off then there are no spin offs period :lol:

Its crazy to tell the creators of the show and the actors of the show and the producers of the show they are wrong and people that had nothing to do with the show are right. Facts are stubborn things sometimes. But YES everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you dont believe its a spin off, good for you!

Why did someone start this up again LOL


This will never die. It even has its own separate board

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=2453

Its crazy to tell the creators of the show and the actors of the show and the producers of the show they are wrong and people that had nothing to do with the show are right. Facts are stubborn things sometimes

The creators and producers don't own the word "spinoff", and they don't determine what it means. The meaning of the word is determined by how it's used in the industry, and by the culture in general. In fact, the people who are related to a production are the last ones to ask, because they have a direct financial interest in a show being perceived as a spinoff of an established successful show.

Im just here to explain to new posters about why the Evans were in Chicago instead of NY


Because the idea of the show was about Eric Monte's experiences growing up in Chicago in the 1960's

get. (Great Entertainment Television) called it a spinoff from Maude in their press release about their 50th Anniversary marathons. I guess that all but ends this debate.

"Good Times" aired its first episode in 1974. The series was developed and executive produced by Norman Lear, as a spinoff from “Maude,” which was itself a spinoff from “All In The Family,” and was television's first African American two-parent family sitcom.

get. (Great Entertainment Television) called it a spinoff from Maude in their press release about their 50th Anniversary marathons. I guess that all but ends this debate.

"Good Times" aired its first episode in 1974. The series was developed and executive produced by Norman Lear, as a spinoff from “Maude,” which was itself a spinoff from “All In The Family,” and was television's first African American two-parent family sitcom.

Not until I can receive a detailed intelligent answer as to why the evans were poor and living in another state when they were in NY on Maude

Not until I can receive a detailed intelligent answer as to why the evans were poor and living in another state when they were in NY on Maude
They changed things up to fit the premise of Good Times. Florida and James are essentially Florida and Henry from “Maude”, but Henry was renamed James and they no longer lived in New York. It’s called a retcon, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a spinoff.

This debate is still raging :lol:

The 50th anniversary of Good Times called it a spin off
Jimmy Walker called it a spin off
Lorman Lear called it a spin off
Bea Arthur called it a spin off
TV Guide called it a spin off

Yet there are those who had nothing to do with the show say its not a spin off. They bring up irrelevant details about Chicago vs NYC or rich or poor. Florida was the character on Maude that became so successful and popular on the show that Norman Lear decided to give her a spin off show. Florida left Maude and got her own show. TV land is not always consistent even in their own sitcoms let alone other ones. Cousin Maude appeared on All In The Family and Normal Lear decided to give her a show. There is no debate on this.

So I was playing around with ChatGPT tonight and I decided to ask it if Good Times was a spinoff of Maude. It gave me the strangest answer I would have ever imagined and it was definitely way off.

No, "Good Times" was not a spinoff of "Maude." However, both shows were created by Norman Lear and shared some thematic elements and social commentary. "Good Times" was actually a spinoff of "All in the Family," specifically from an episode titled "The Bunkers and the Swingers."

I don’t know where it got the idea it was directly from All in the Family, much less the swinger episode that has no connections to it whatsoever.

I think we can all agree that Good Times is indeed a spinoff of Maude now.

Case dismissed.

I think we can all agree that Good Times is indeed a spinoff of Maude now.

Case dismissed.

I know that and you know that, but the naysayers will never give up.

I know that and you know that, but the naysayers will never give up.
There are only 2 people that say its not a spin off and they are on this board. They had nothing to do with the creation of the show yet they disagree with the creators of the show and think its not a spin off. Spin offs are not always perfectly transferred into the next show. Benson was a spin off of SOAP. The character Benson became a butler for the CA governor. Yet his SOAP life never mentioned again. But Benson was still the smart a** butler and character but in another show.

Sure, Lear would call it a spin off, since it was probably his idea to use Esther Rolle as the star (and probably saying, hey, let's just keep her as Florida). I wonder if Eric Monte would agree, since he and Mike Evans created the show. Monte sued Lear/Tandem/CBS for stealing his idea, and eventually won some residuals.

There is nothing in Good Times which would associate it with Maude, other than what was probably Lear's idea to use Rolle as the star. And maybe one Florida line in Good Times--saying she once worked as a maid.

Sure, Lear would call it a spin off, since it was probably his idea to use Esther Rolle as the star (and probably saying, hey, let's just keep her as Florida). I wonder if Eric Monte would agree, since he and Mike Evans created the show. Monte sued Lear/Tandem/CBS for stealing his idea, and eventually won some residuals.

There is nothing in Good Times which would associate it with Maude, other than what was probably Lear's idea to use Rolle as the star. And maybe one Florida line in Good Times--saying she once worked as a maid.
Florida Evans was Maude’s maid. When they spun her off, they decided to give her the Good Times show that was already in development. There’s a reason why Florida mentioned working as a maid.

The sendoff from Maude was logical. The writing on Good Times should have explained how they were suddenly in Chicago, instead of making it seem like the Evanses were always there. Even if they didn't like the Henry name, they should have kept it anyway, even though it was an overused name from the All in the Family days.

I can just hear Lear, as he's leaving an ivory tower meeting, saying something like--leave her as Florida, and getting credit for "developing" Good Times. And then he washed his hands of the whole thing. Probably Rolle or Amos didn't like the name Henry, and some underling changed it to James--adding to the confusion.

John Rich or someone should have said, hey, we need to set this up a little better. Of course that was just the beginning of the behind-the-scenes problems for Good Times.

Fractured spinoff

The sendoff from Maude was logical. The writing on Good Times should have explained how they were suddenly in Chicago, instead of making it seem like the Evanses were always there. Even if they didn't like the Henry name, they should have kept it anyway, even though it was an overused name from the All in the Family days.

I can just hear Lear, as he's leaving an ivory tower meeting, saying something like--leave her as Florida, and getting credit for "developing" Good Times. And then he washed his hands of the whole thing. Probably Rolle or Amos didn't like the name Henry, and some underling changed it to James--adding to the confusion.

John Rich or someone should have said, hey, we need to set this up a little better. Of course that was just the beginning of the behind-the-scenes problems for Good Times.


The reason why its in chicago is because Lear stole Eric Monte's idea of a black family living in chicago. So that's the main reason its not a spinoff to me because its not connecting

Sure, Lear would call it a spin off, since it was probably his idea to use Esther Rolle as the star (and probably saying, hey, let's just keep her as Florida). I wonder if Eric Monte would agree, since he and Mike Evans created the show. Monte sued Lear/Tandem/CBS for stealing his idea, and eventually won some residuals.

There is nothing in Good Times which would associate it with Maude, other than what was probably Lear's idea to use Rolle as the star. And maybe one Florida line in Good Times--saying she once worked as a maid.
You are associating Good Times as the typical spin off launch. For example Maude had a spin off launch on its show when Archie and Edith visit Maude's daughter for her bridal shower on All In The Family. That does not happen in every scenario. Florida was so successful and funny on Maude that Norman wanted to give her a show. Its very similar how Norman saw Bea Arthur on All In The Family and wanted to give her a show. A good example is Benson. The character remained the same. Benson was too smart for the family, a smart a** butler. When he got his own show it was reality based unlike SOAP. There was no connection to its original show other than the character. However its still a spin off. If the actor playing Benson left the show and became a surgeon on a drama show, it would not be a spin off. The key is they built a show around his character and he was still named Benson. There still may have been a show called Good Times or another name about a black family living in the projects. But Norman used the successful and established character of Florida as the launch as a spin off from a successful show. Its a sneaky way to get more success.
Speaking of Good Times, there is an episode where JJ becomes a manager for a woman performing in a club. She was supposed to get her own show. It that had happened, it would have been a spin off of Good Times. Norman was using Good Times as the launch of a potential spin off. Look at Gimmie A Break with the episode where the girl steals from the store and was going to live with an older white guy. That was going to be a spin off and it would have had nothing to do with Gimmie A Break. Those would be considered spin offs even though the characters had nothing to do with the original show and just appeared in one episode. Florida was in every episode of Maude. Look at the countless spin off attempts from Facts of Life. There are all sorts of weird episodes of characters we never see again in settings that we never see again.

There are only 2 people that say its not a spin off and they are on this board. They had nothing to do with the creation of the show yet they disagree with the creators of the show and think its not a spin off. Spin offs are not always perfectly transferred into the next show. Benson was a spin off of SOAP. The character Benson became a butler for the CA governor. Yet his SOAP life never mentioned again. But Benson was still the smart a** butler and character but in another show.

There was an episode of Benson where the ghost (or spirit) of Jessica Tate visited Benson. Of course, only he could see her.

There was an episode of Benson where the ghost (or spirit) of Jessica Tate visited Benson. Of course, only he could see her.

Actually two episodes. She was also on the show in an earlier season as a real person. And of course she was the governor’s cousin which was the connection that got Benson the job in the first place.

Benson is a poor example, that show was well connected to Soap

If it were up to me, the very first episode of Good Times would have been about The Evans family relocating from New York to Chicago and moving in the projects. Henry would still be renamed James and Florida would mention working for Maude Findlay. But it was not up to me, it was up to Lear. He decided that it was not necessary to explain how the Evans ended up in Chicago. That doesn’t mean Good Times is not connected to Maude.

If it were up to me, the very first episode of Good Times would have been about The Evans family relocating from New York to Chicago and moving in the projects. Henry would still be renamed James and Florida would mention working for Maude Findlay. But it was not up to me, it was up to Lear. He decided that it was not necessary to explain how the Evans ended up in Chicago. That doesn’t mean Good Times is not connected to Maude.

It started like they always been living there:lol:

If it were up to me, the very first episode of Good Times would have been about The Evans family relocating from New York to Chicago and moving in the projects. Henry would still be renamed James and Florida would mention working for Maude Findlay. But it was not up to me, it was up to Lear. He decided that it was not necessary to explain how the Evans ended up in Chicago. That doesn’t mean Good Times is not connected to Maude.

Agree. This is what should have happened. Monte was not involved in the first two scripts, and his pilot was not shown until the third episode. With all the infighting there was probably no thought given to a proper script explaining the Evans' move to Chicago.

Probably already seen by many, here is the story of Lear's and Monte's relationship. It's sad, and Lear is regarded as almost a saint by many:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdzYZ15aAUs

Note in this interview they are careful to not call Good Times a spin off, as they correctly call The Jeffersons.

Im sure people at the time was wondering how Florida ended up in Chicago

Actually two episodes. She was also on the show in an earlier season as a real person. And of course she was the governor’s cousin which was the connection that got Benson the job in the first place.

I forgot about the first appearance. It's been so long since I've seen Benson.

One thing to correct, as I was reading thru this whole thread again. Several people say Norman Lear created Good Times (or is one of the creators), which is definitely not correct.
The show was created by Eric Monte and Mike Evans (the show's credits acknowledge this), who both collaborated to create it in 1971, before Maude was even aired. Lear developed the concept by giving Esther Rolle the starring role, and i assume he had a hand in casting the rest of the characters.

One thing to correct, as I was reading thru this whole thread again. Several people say Norman Lear created Good Times (or is one of the creators), which is definitely not correct.
The show was created by Eric Monte and Mike Evans (the show's credits acknowledge this), who both collaborated to create it in 1971, before Maude was even aired. Lear developed the concept by giving Esther Rolle the starring role, and i assume he had a hand in casting the rest of the characters.
Lear giving Esther Rolle the Florida Evans role is what makes Good Times a spinoff. Why would Florida be on a show that had “nothing to do with Maude”? And why would Florida mention working as a maid in an episode when that was never even acknowledged on Good Times before that?

And why would Florida mention working as a maid in an episode when that was never even acknowledged on Good Times before that?


I don't know what disputes were going on when, but they could have been inserting information evidencing that the show was based in Maude.

The spinoff question seems to turn on whether Florida is the same character in both shows.

With all the disputes going on over scripts, probably the last thing on anyone's mind was neatening things up. It would have made sense if Lear's staff writers had written a scene for the first episode explaining it all. But that would have required a lot of other re-writing, straightening out the appearance that the Evanses had always been there. It also might have required changes in Eric Monte's third episode, which was credited solely to him, and he might have been unwilling to change it.

Based on the way Good Times was written, how could both Floridas be the same character?

With all the disputes going on over scripts, probably the last thing on anyone's mind was neatening things up. It would have made sense if Lear's staff writers had written a scene for the first episode explaining it all. But that would have required a lot of other re-writing, straightening out the appearance that the Evanses had always been there. It also might have required changes in Eric Monte's third episode, which was credited solely to him, and he might have been unwilling to change it.

Based on the way Good Times was written, how could both Floridas be the same character?
Both Floridas are the same character because they look the same, talk the same, and both of them worked as a maid.

Both Floridas are the same character because they look the same, talk the same, and both of them worked as a maid.

But the same thing can not be said about Henry/James. He went from being a Fireman with High school diploma in NY to a dish/car washer with no HS diploma in Chicago.

I already revealed years ago Producer Alan manings said its not really a spinoff because it was ONE CHARACTER and we changed that character

But the same thing can not be said about Henry/James. He went from being a Fireman with High school diploma in NY to a dish/car washer with no HS diploma in Chicago.
It’s called inconsistency. Henry and James are the same character, Henry was changed to James to fit the Good Times premise. If Henry and James are not the same character, then that means Blanche had two daughters named Rebecca on the TV show The Golden Girls. When Rebecca first appeared, she was an obese woman with blonde hair and blue eyes who was engaged to her emotionally abusive boyfriend. When she returns two seasons later, she is a much smaller woman with brown eyes and hair who wants to have a baby via artificial insemination. And then to top it off, the boyfriend is never mentioned, and neither is her drastic weight loss. Huh? That must mean that the Rebecca from Season 3 is not the same character as Rebecca from Seasons 5-6.

It’s called inconsistency. Henry and James are the same character, Henry was changed to James to fit the Good Times premise. If Henry and James are not the same character, then that means Blanche had two daughters named Rebecca on the TV show The Golden Girls. When Rebecca first appeared, she was an obese woman with blonde hair and blue eyes who was engaged to her emotionally abusive boyfriend. When she returns two seasons later, she is a much smaller woman with brown eyes and hair who wants to have a baby via artificial insemination. And then to top it off, the boyfriend is never mentioned, and neither is her drastic weight loss. Huh? That must mean that the Rebecca from Season 3 is not the same character as Rebecca from Seasons 5-6.

its called frauctured spinoff lol

It’s called inconsistency. Henry and James are the same character, Henry was changed to James to fit the Good Times premise. If Henry and James are not the same character, then that means Blanche had two daughters named Rebecca on the TV show The Golden Girls. When Rebecca first appeared, she was an obese woman with blonde hair and blue eyes who was engaged to her emotionally abusive boyfriend. When she returns two seasons later, she is a much smaller woman with brown eyes and hair who wants to have a baby via artificial insemination. And then to top it off, the boyfriend is never mentioned, and neither is her drastic weight loss. Huh? That must mean that the Rebecca from Season 3 is not the same character as Rebecca from Seasons 5-6.

I agree with you that there are alot of "character" inconsistency on TV shows. It even happened on GoodTimes where in one episode Louis Gossett Jr is Thelma's lover and in another episode, he is Thelma's uncle. But inconsistency doesn't stop there for GT spin off. For example, it was established that Evens have lived in Chicago for at least 20 years. That right there would cut off any connections and similarity between Maude and Goodtimes.

its called frauctured spinoff lol

I think that was the right word Norman Leer was looking for when describing the Goodtimes spin off as he didn't like the term "spin off" :)

I agree with you that there are alot of "character" inconsistency on TV shows. It even happened on GoodTimes where in one episode Louis Gossett Jr is Thelma's lover and in another episode, he is Thelma's uncle. But inconsistency doesn't stop there for GT spin off. For example, it was established that Evens have lived in Chicago for at least 20 years. That right there would cut off any connections and similarity between Maude and Goodtimes.
True but in all sitcoms there are huge inconsistencies within their own series. The Golden Girls and Threes Company threads are full of posts showing inconsistencies within the series. That happens in every sitcom and probably more so in a spin off. There are a few consistencies though. John Amos played Florida's tough husband on Maude and he played her husband on Good Times (although he was a different name). I think the debate is a bit misguided because of people's opinion and perception of what a spin off is. There are some spin offs that are inserted into a sitcom only for the spin off "effect." For example, Empty Nest was going to be attempted a spin off from the Golden Girls. The characters showed up in one episode, we had no idea who they were, and never spoke about again. It was an attempted to have a spin off from GG. It did not work and the show was revamped yet they lived in the same neighborhood as GG and crossed over in a few episodes. Good Times is a classic spin off where the character was so popular that they got their own show. There are inconsistencies in location for sure. But its the same actress, same character that left a popular sitcom to have their own show. Maude is never mentioned again. However there is a Good Times episode where Florida does mention old days of housekeeping. If Esther left Maude because of a contract dispute and was hired on another sitcom and her name was Bertha then it would not be a spin off. But we all seem to have our own definitions of what a spin off is. But I yield to the creators of the show. When Walker was given the script, he asked the writers and producers what it was and he was told it was a spin off of Maude. That interview along with Bea Arthur's interview are also on youtube talking about the spin off. If the creators of the show called a spin off then I cant imagine anyone saying otherwise.

You're thinking of Lear as the creator of GT, again. He's not. It was created by Eric Monte and Mike Evans in 1971 and Lear stole it.

Also, try listening to some of the interviews of Eric Monte. The man is justifiably angry in his later years.

You're thinking of Lear as the creator of GT, again. He's not. It was created by Eric Monte and Mike Evans in 1971 and Lear stole it.

Also, try listening to some of the interviews of Eric Monte. The man is justifiably angry in his later years.
True. But the point is Lear may have stole or bought the idea but he made it a spin off of Maude. When someone had a new idea for a show, it was common to spin off a character or make the new characters appear in the successful show and spin them off.
Indirectly you brought up a really good point. Its very possible Good Times could have been brought to TV not as a spin off from Maude. However Lear was too smart. He saw he had the perfect star for that show on a hit show already. Part of the success of Maude in its first season was the banter between Florida and Maude. It was similar to Archie and Mike. Florida many times but Maude in her place which few people could do. I think this is why there is a debate on this. Its true Good Times could have come to TV not as a spin off. But Lear was so successful in spinning off shows from All In The Family he saw the perfect opportunity to make Good Times work. What if we take the housekeeper from Maude and put Florida in the lead role.
IMHO Maude was never the same without Florida. The show was still good for about 2 more seasons but the first season with Florida was the best. Her limelight carried Good Times into a successful show. Esther/Florida was perfect for that role. She was smart and no nonsense and stood up to her boss and her husband on Maude. She was the perfect mom for such a role on Good Times.

When someone had a new idea for a show, it was common to spin off a character or make the new characters appear in the successful show and spin them off.

What are the other spinoffs where there was a preexisting show and they just dropped a popular character into it? Not the Jeffersons, Maude, Rhoda, Phyllis, Laverne & Shirley, Mork & Mindy, or Frasier.

True. But the point is Lear may have stole or bought the idea but he made it a spin off of Maude. When someone had a new idea for a show, it was common to spin off a character or make the new characters appear in the successful show and spin them off.
Indirectly you brought up a really good point. Its very possible Good Times could have been brought to TV not as a spin off from Maude. However Lear was too smart. He saw he had the perfect star for that show on a hit show already. Part of the success of Maude in its first season was the banter between Florida and Maude. It was similar to Archie and Mike. Florida many times but Maude in her place which few people could do. I think this is why there is a debate on this. Its true Good Times could have come to TV not as a spin off. But Lear was so successful in spinning off shows from All In The Family he saw the perfect opportunity to make Good Times work. What if we take the housekeeper from Maude and put Florida in the lead role.
IMHO Maude was never the same without Florida. The show was still good for about 2 more seasons but the first season with Florida was the best. Her limelight carried Good Times into a successful show. Esther/Florida was perfect for that role. She was smart and no nonsense and stood up to her boss and her husband on Maude. She was the perfect mom for such a role on Good Times.

So, since Good Times places the Evanses in Chicago for years, as written, what is the association between Good Times and Maude?

So, since Good Times places the Evanses in Chicago for years, as written, what is the association between Good Times and Maude?
The central character only. Spin offs can go in a different direction than the host show

What are the other spinoffs where there was a preexisting show and they just dropped a popular character into it? Not the Jeffersons, Maude, Rhoda, Phyllis, Laverne & Shirley, Mork & Mindy, or Frasier.
Laverene and Shirley were on Happy Days so was Mork dressed in the same Mork and Mindy outfit. But its much easier to identify the failed spin offs where characters were inserted and then the network decided not to proceed with the spin off. The Facts of Life had 4 episodes that were going to be spin offs. Characters were dropped in as if they were regulars and never seen again. The episode Nell and the Kid from Gimmie A Break was also supposed to be a spin off. The Kelly Kids episode on the Brady Bunch was also supposed to be a spin off from the Brady Bunch. The Empty Nest episode on Golden Girls was also dropped into the GG episodes. While most of the actors were not cast for the official Empty Nest sitcom, the premise and actor was dropped into Golden Girls for the spin off. We never met any of those characters before on GG and then sure enough they show was created and aired on NBC as them living down the street from Golden Girls.

So, Florida and the family were in Chicago for years, according to the Good Times "bible." But she wasn't.

I think I know how to destroy Chat GPT. Just give it these facts. It'd blow up like Nomad did at the end its Star Trek TOS episode.

Laverene and Shirley were on Happy Days so was Mork dressed in the same Mork and Mindy outfit. But its much easier to identify the failed spin offs where characters were inserted and then the network decided not to proceed with the spin off. The Facts of Life had 4 episodes that were going to be spin offs. Characters were dropped in as if they were regulars and never seen again. The episode Nell and the Kid from Gimmie A Break was also supposed to be a spin off. The Kelly Kids episode on the Brady Bunch was also supposed to be a spin off from the Brady Bunch. The Empty Nest episode on Golden Girls was also dropped into the GG episodes. While most of the actors were not cast for the official Empty Nest sitcom, the premise and actor was dropped into Golden Girls for the spin off. We never met any of those characters before on GG and then sure enough they show was created and aired on NBC as them living down the street from Golden Girls.

Yes, we can probably agree that back door pilots are pretty easy to identify even when they don't get picked up. Sherwood might have looked back at Kelly Kids and said to himself, what was I thinking? And the original audience probably tuned out in droves.

I remember a few back door pilots going back as far as The Donna Reed Show. That show had at least one and it was also pretty bad.

Laverene and Shirley were on Happy Days so was Mork dressed in the same Mork and Mindy outfit. But its much easier to identify the failed spin offs where characters were inserted and then the network decided not to proceed with the spin off. The Facts of Life had 4 episodes that were going to be spin offs. Characters were dropped in as if they were regulars and never seen again. The episode Nell and the Kid from Gimmie A Break was also supposed to be a spin off. The Kelly Kids episode on the Brady Bunch was also supposed to be a spin off from the Brady Bunch. The Empty Nest episode on Golden Girls was also dropped into the GG episodes. While most of the actors were not cast for the official Empty Nest sitcom, the premise and actor was dropped into Golden Girls for the spin off. We never met any of those characters before on GG and then sure enough they show was created and aired on NBC as them living down the street from Golden Girls.

The term for those type of episodes is a "backdoor pilot." It's disguised as an episode of the show, but it's really testing the waters for a potential spinoff series.

True. But the point is Lear may have stole or bought the idea but he made it a spin off of Maude. When someone had a new idea for a show, it was common to spin off a character or make the new characters appear in the successful show and spin them off.
Indirectly you brought up a really good point. Its very possible Good Times could have been brought to TV not as a spin off from Maude. However Lear was too smart. He saw he had the perfect star for that show on a hit show already. Part of the success of Maude in its first season was the banter between Florida and Maude. It was similar to Archie and Mike. Florida many times but Maude in her place which few people could do. I think this is why there is a debate on this. Its true Good Times could have come to TV not as a spin off. But Lear was so successful in spinning off shows from All In The Family he saw the perfect opportunity to make Good Times work. What if we take the housekeeper from Maude and put Florida in the lead role.
IMHO Maude was never the same without Florida. The show was still good for about 2 more seasons but the first season with Florida was the best. Her limelight carried Good Times into a successful show. Esther/Florida was perfect for that role. She was smart and no nonsense and stood up to her boss and her husband on Maude. She was the perfect mom for such a role on Good Times.


But he couldnt make it a spinoff if he didnt change the location and situation. They are not in NY and poor. That was not the case on maude

But he couldnt make it a spinoff if he didnt change the location and situation. They are not in NY and poor. That was not the case on maude
You are pointing out inconsistencies on a sitcom? OMG they are everywhere. We could spend all day pointing out the inconsistencies of spin offs and even in withing a series. The Golden Girls has countless inconsistencies with their families, their house, their history, etc. The bottom line that Lear took a very popular character on one of his shows and put her with the same name on another sitcom. Most other things are not connected remotely to the original show. Florida says goodbye to Maude in an episode and reappears living in the Chicago projects. But her character was the same including her name. Her persona was the same and now she had kids too.
If you really want to hurt your head, Mamas Family has the most inconsistencies of any sitcom. Mama even died in a CBS special yet she came back to life. No one can keep track of her kids or grandkids that come and disappear. But that is TV and sitcoms and their fairly tale existence. It definitely is not a traditional spin off. They could have given her another name and different attitude on Good Times. I see it as Lear trying to have the best of both worlds. He wanted Good Times to work and saw the popular character of Florida having the TV following that could transfer into the new show.
Speaking of Maude is it not odd that they always spoke of her grandson on the show yet we never saw him until the later seasons and he was like 12 by then and they acted like he always lived in the house. Thats the creativity license TV land has. It was like Family Ties when the baby comes and the next season he's a toddler already.

You are pointing out inconsistencies on a sitcom? OMG they are everywhere. We could spend all day pointing out the inconsistencies of spin offs and even in withing a series. The Golden Girls has countless inconsistencies with their families, their house, their history, etc. The bottom line that Lear took a very popular character on one of his shows and put her with the same name on another sitcom. Most other things are not connected remotely to the original show. Florida says goodbye to Maude in an episode and reappears living in the Chicago projects. But her character was the same including her name. Her persona was the same and now she had kids too.
If you really want to hurt your head, Mamas Family has the most inconsistencies of any sitcom. Mama even died in a CBS special yet she came back to life. No one can keep track of her kids or grandkids that come and disappear. But that is TV and sitcoms and their fairly tale existence. It definitely is not a traditional spin off. They could have given her another name and different attitude on Good Times. I see it as Lear trying to have the best of both worlds. He wanted Good Times to work and saw the popular character of Florida having the TV following that could transfer into the new show.
Speaking of Maude is it not odd that they always spoke of her grandson on the show yet we never saw him until the later seasons and he was like 12 by then and they acted like he always lived in the house. Thats the creativity license TV land has. It was like Family Ties when the baby comes and the next season he's a toddler already.

M*A*S*H is my favorite show of all-time and that show has so many inconsistencies, it's not funny. Well actually, it is funny. You just have to laugh and roll your eyes at it.

I don't let it diminish my enjoyment of the show. I just marvel at the fact that Hot Lips Houlihan's parents are deceased in the early years, but in a later season, her dad visits her at the 4077th. Apparently, he got better.

The inconsistencies on Good Times are minor by comparison. It's a spin off and that's that.

And now, I wait for the inevitable rebuttal.

:)

that's that.



Norman Lear's All in the Family includes a scene where Mike is unpacking a bag of groceries, and commenting on the items. He pulls out some kind of cleaner, and says, "Look at this label - 'New and Improved'. Everything we buy today is new and improved. What were we using yesterday - old and lousy?"

What Lear's saying is that when someone - like Lear - is selling you something - like a TV show - then you have to be skeptical about what they say about it. So "that's that" doesn't have a place in the discussion.

I think we can all agree sitcoms have inconsistencies. You'll have that with different writers, and a head writer (if there is one) doesn't catch everything.

But setting up a new show? And such obvious things. Hey, Ethel! Didn't Florida live in New York? What's she doing in Chicago?

Also, we all know what a spin off is. It's just that we disagree.

I was going to compare Good Times to Mork and Mindy since one character was taken and put in a different type of Universe. But since Maude never appeared in any time of pilot like Fonzie did on Mork and Mindy and how Bunkers did on Jeffersons and Maude, it will never ever be a spinoff to me

2026 and it’s still a spin-off.

Happy New Year :wave:

This article from 1974 says it kind of a spinoff and then goes on to say when you factor in the other elements of the show it really doesnt seem like one:lol:

This article from 1974 says it kind of a spinoff and then goes on to say when you factor in the other elements of the show it really doesnt seem like one:lol:

Goodtimes must be the only TV show in history where when it got spinoff, the cast got down graded. The resident moved from upstate NY to Chicago Project. Florida became unemployed housewife and James/Henry got demoted from Firefighter to a dish and car washer.

Like for the spinoff Jeffersons where theme song was "Moving On Up" because the cast moved on to better things, the theme song for Goodtimes should have been "Moving On Down" :D

Goodtimes must be the only TV show in history where when it got spinoff, the cast got down graded. The resident moved from upstate NY to Chicago Project. Florida became unemployed housewife and James/Henry got demoted from Firefighter to a dish and car washer.

Like for the spinoff Jeffersons where theme song was "Moving On Up" because the cast moved on to better things, the theme song for Goodtimes should have been "Moving On Down" :D

she was plugged into a already written show which means should have a different name

she was plugged into a already written show which means should have a different name

Not only that, the show also had a different background as to be perceived as a spinoff. For example in the episode where Alderman Davis mentioned that he knew the Evans family since the children were born-which mean Evans were in Chicago for last 20 years. That indicate that in the world of GoodTimes realm, the show Maude never existed.

Not only that, the show also had a different background as to be perceived as a spinoff. For example in the episode where Alderman Davis mentioned that he knew the Evans family since the children were born-which mean Evans were in Chicago for last 20 years. That indicate that in the world of GoodTimes realm, the show Maude never existed.

Exactly it doesnt match

I always saw it as a spinoff, just tweaked when it became Good Times

I was watching an interview with Bea Arthur from 2002. Not only did she call Good Times her spin off but pointed to something few know or remember. In an episode before Florida leaves, her husband raises a fit and says he does not Florida to work for white people anymore. A few episodes later Florida leaves and says good-bye. Florida was on the debut of Good Times the next week. Not only was she playing the same character but her spin off started the week after she left Maude to keep the buzz and continuity of Florida going on her new show.

I was watching an interview with Bea Arthur from 2002. Not only did she call Good Times her spin off but pointed to something few know or remember. In an episode before Florida leaves, her husband raises a fit and says he does not Florida to work for white people anymore. A few episodes later Florida leaves and says good-bye. Florida was on the debut of Good Times the next week. Not only was she playing the same character but her spin off started the week after she left Maude to keep the buzz and continuity of Florida going on her new show.

They was in a different state so it no connection. And it was already explained that the show was written by eric monte which was about his life growing up in the 60s in chicago

Not a black woman working as a maid in suburban NY

They was in a different state so it no connection. And it was already explained that the show was written by eric monte which was about his life growing up in the 60s in chicago

Not a black woman working as a maid in suburban NY
I knew that would get your attention ;)

Apparently Norman Lear did not know about that rule that a spin off cannot happen in another state with the same character ;)

I knew that would get your attention ;)

Apparently Norman Lear did not know about that rule that a spin off cannot happen in another state with the same character ;)

only so called spinoff with no pilot episode:lol:

I guess they would call the "Maude" episode where they explained the Evans' move to Chicago, a back-door pilot.

Oh--wait--that didn't happen.

Never mind...

I guess they would call the "Maude" episode where they explained the Evans' move to Chicago, a back-door pilot.

Oh--wait--that didn't happen.

Never mind...

income situation didnt match
location didnt match

And i like how they had florida mention she was a maid on Good Times to try to connect to it maude. Maybe they should have her say.......and when I was a maid for Maude:lol:

income situation didnt match
location didnt match

And i like how they had florida mention she was a maid on Good Times to try to connect to it maude. Maybe they should have her say.......and when I was a maid for Maude:lol:
Maude specifically was not mentioned but it didn't need to be. However she did bring up she formally cleaned houses.
Don't want to stir up this debate again I just found it interesting how Florida glided from Maude one week to her own show. The entire reason for her leaving Maude is mentioned in Maude episodes. Florida is her name and she is the same character. Its funny that Bea Aruther, the cast of Good Times and even the creator of the show says Good Times was a spin off from Maude. The only ones that disagree are a few members of this board which is fine. Had the Jeffersons moved to Chicago it would not be a spin off from All In The Family? The same characters moved out to get their own show. Happens frequently in sitcoms. The entire reason Good Times moved to Chicago was to make the family live in the projects. Those projects in Chicago were infamous at the time. However the location is irrelevant since the same character with the same name and same husband spun off another show the following week. Of course there are tiny details that dont match up but that is the reality of sitcoms. Sitcoms themselves are never consistent with their own show let alone spins offs.
Anyhoo, just found it interesting how fast Florida glided to her new show.

income situation didnt match
location didnt match

And i like how they had florida mention she was a maid on Good Times to try to connect to it maude. Maybe they should have her say.......and when I was a maid for Maude:lol:
Maude specifically was not mentioned but it didn't need to be. However she did bring up she formally cleaned houses.
Don't want to stir up this debate again I just found it interesting how Florida glided from Maude one week to her own show. The entire reason for her leaving Maude is mentioned in Maude episodes. Florida is her name and she is the same character. Its funny that Bea Aruther, the cast of Good Times and even the creator of the show says Good Times was a spin off from Maude. The only ones that disagree are a few members of this board which is fine. Had the Jeffersons moved to Chicago it would not be a spin off from All In The Family? The same characters moved out to get their own show. Happens frequently in sitcoms. The entire reason Good Times moved to Chicago was to make the family live in the projects. Those projects in Chicago were infamous at the time. However the location is irrelevant since the same character with the same name and same husband spun off another show the following week. Of course there are tiny details that dont match up but that is the reality of sitcoms. Sitcoms themselves are never consistent with their own show let alone spins offs.
Anyhoo, just found it interesting how fast Florida glided to her new show.

Thanks for keeping this board alive. Anytime it needs a jump start this is the place to come :) But Norman Lear was very clear why he changed the narrative of Florida and her husband. They went from middle class to struggling poor even though they were the same characters. They thought this may not work and giving being a hard working poor family in the projects would yield far more interesting scripts. This sort of explains it better than me:

Good Times is an American television sitcom that aired for six seasons on CBS, from February 8, 1974, to August 1, 1979. Created by Eric Monte and Mike Evans and developed by executive producer Norman Lear, it was television's first African-American two-parent family sitcom. It is a spin-off of Maude, which itself spun off from All in the Family.
The characters originated on the sitcom Maude as Florida and Henry Evans, with Florida employed as Maude Findlay's housekeeper in Tuckahoe, New York, and Henry employed as a New York City firefighter. When producers decided to feature Florida on her own show, they changed the characters' history to fit a new series that was well into development rather than start from scratch to create a consistent starring vehicle, even though it meant changing their Black middle-class family into a poverty-stricken lower-class family. Henry's name became James, and he worked various odd jobs due to having only a sixth-grade education. There is no mention of Maude, but in the episode "The Checkup", Florida mentions having formerly worked as a maid. Additionally, the couple's location was now Chicago.[4]

Good Times deals with the characters' attempts to overcome poverty, living in high-rise public housing in Chicago. James Evans often works at least two jobs, mostly manual labor such as dishwasher or construction worker. Though he is often unemployed, he is a proud man who will not accept charity. He sometimes hustles money playing pool, although Florida disapproves of this.

One thing that this debate does not talk about is that the series Good Times was already being planned at CBS. In reality it would have happened without Florida. They would have just cast someone else. But Norman Lear was not dumb. The character Florida was pivotal to Maude's success. Many shows Florida had the best lines with the only person that could put Maude in their place. The idea came to him since Florida was so popular she would be ideal to star in this new sitcom. Thus she was "spun off" to her own show. This is why she kept her own name and identity for the new show. Many tuned in to see Florida's new show. The show would have probably debuted without Florida. However Good Times still fits every criteria of a spin off. A character is spun off and given their own show.

One thing that this debate does not talk about is that the series Good Times was already being planned at CBS. In reality it would have happened without Florida. They would have just cast someone else. But Norman Lear was not dumb. The character Florida was pivotal to Maude's success. Many shows Florida had the best lines with the only person that could put Maude in their place. The idea came to him since Florida was so popular she would be ideal to star in this new sitcom. Thus she was "spun off" to her own show. This is why she kept her own name and identity for the new show. Many tuned in to see Florida's new show. The show would have probably debuted without Florida. However Good Times still fits every criteria of a spin off. A character is spun off and given their own show.

wish someone would have asked him why didnt florida stay in New york

wish someone would have asked him why didnt florida stay in New york
The most infamous projects were in Chicago. The entire premise of downgrading Florida's middle class to poor required a change of locations. Those projects were always in the news in the 1970s. I have a faint memory of a child that the mayor once dared herself to spend the night inside those projects that were prone to murder and drug dealing.
I dont think its the city or location that would give me pause calling it a spin off. The hesitation for me would be the show was already being created without consideration of Maude. Normal Lear just thought it made sense to take the funniest character on one of the biggest shows and make it revolve around her. When Florida left Maude was #4 in ratings. Once she left the show declined in ratings every year until it was cancelled.
Its a highly unusual path for a spin off since Good Times has nothing to do with Maude except her former Maid is now living in the poor Chicago projects. The show could have changed her name completely and had no connection to Maude at all. Instead they kept the name and character and gave her a show that was already being constructed. Not usual path at all.

Edit: My memory is pretty good. Found this clip on youtube about the dangers of these projects and the mayor moving in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Q5-mdowZI

Naturally Lear would call it a spin-off. He wanted a vehicle for Esther Rolle, and she WAS Florida. So (over-simplification, I grant), plug her into Eric Monte's already-written show. This pilot was the third Good Times episode.

So, what associates Good Times to the Maude world?

1. Esther Rolle, playing a character named Florida Evans, but with no explanation, placed in a totally different and faraway location, but not employed (initially) this time, although based on the situation, her being employed would make sense.
2. John Amos, playing the husband (with a new first name).
3. Florida mentioning on Good Times that she was once a maid.

In virtually all other spin-offs, there is an effort to make it plausible. Lear might have said, this opportunity opened up with little time to do it gracefully. So let's just plug Esther (and John) into it.

So the Evanses are plunked down in the Chicago projects, like they've always been there, with Florida mentioning she was once a maid.

True, not everything makes sense in the TV world.

Naturally Lear would call it a spin-off. He wanted a vehicle for Esther Rolle, and she WAS Florida. So (over-simplification, I grant), plug her into Eric Monte's already-written show. This pilot was the third Good Times episode.

So, what associates Good Times to the Maude world?

1. Esther Rolle, playing a character named Florida Evans, but with no explanation, placed in a totally different and faraway location, but not employed (initially) this time, although based on the situation, her being employed would make sense.
2. John Amos, playing the husband (with a new first name).
3. Florida mentioning on Good Times that she was once a maid.

In virtually all other spin-offs, there is an effort to make it plausible. Lear might have said, this opportunity opened up with little time to do it gracefully. So let's just plug Esther (and John) into it.

So the Evanses are plunked down in the Chicago projects, like they've always been there, with Florida mentioning she was once a maid.

True, not everything makes sense in the TV world.

only so called spinoff that didnt have a pilot

I was wondering, if Lear had decided to use the pre-existing Monte script and call the characters Georgia and James, starring Esther Rolle and John Amos, would he then not call it a spin-off?

That is, is the Florida name THE thing?

I was wondering, if Lear had decided to use the pre-existing Monte script and call the characters Georgia and James, starring Esther Rolle and John Amos, would he then not call it a spin-off?

That is, is the Florida name THE thing?

Her last ep of Maude was more of a closure to the character not a transition which is the main reason I dont call it a spinoff

Her last ep of Maude was more of a closure to the character not a transition which is the main reason I dont call it a spinoff
Because they were using Maude as a springboard to the new show. The week she left Maude she was on Good Times the next week. Had they had a pilot could have confused people.
I think Lear did a bunch of unconventional things. Spinning off a popular character made people tune in to see the new show. Sort of makes sense.

Here is Florida on Good Times talking about her former maid days
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0ze-pbbq7Jw

Her last ep of Maude was more of a closure to the character not a transition which is the main reason I dont call it a spinoff
Because they were using Maude as a springboard to the new show. The week she left Maude she was on Good Times the next week. Had they had a pilot could have confused people.
I think Lear did a bunch of unconventional things. Spinning off a popular character made people tune in to see the new show. Sort of makes sense.

Here is Florida on Good Times talking about her former maid days
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0ze-pbbq7Jw

I am going to bring unity and peace to this 10 page multi-year thread. The reason many of us cant agree is because Good Times has a little bit of evidence of both a spin off but then also has evidence it was not.

The biggest argument it not being a spin off of Maude is not the city location or her husband's name change even though her husband came off Maude and also joined Good Times. The show was already in development and its creation was not connected to Maude. The show was going to be aired someday with no connection to Maude. Without Maude the show probably would have still existed.

HOWEVER

Norman Lear was lavishing in his first big spin off from All In The Family. Maude was in the top 5 sitcoms and Florida was a key reason. The banter between Maude and Florida was hysterical and a major reason people watched the show. How about spinning off Florida in her own show? Oh wait we already have a sitcom in production about a poor black family in Chicago. Would she not make the perfect mom there? So Florida says goodbye to Maude and the next week is on her own show. Not only was her name the same but she essentially played the exact same character from Maude. Thus she was "spun off" to her own show. She was the second star of Maude that got her own show. That alone meets the description of a spin off. The network gave Florida her own show. This is why they did not change her name. They used the developing show as a chance to spin off a wildly popular character in her own show. Its a cynical form of a spin off but still meets the definition since a major cast member was given their own show.

If I was alive on feb 5 1974 and watched florida leave maude and then watched her on Good Times 3 days later on Feb 8 1974 I would have been so confused

It is just a matter of semantics.

I doubt Eric Monte would call the show a spin-off--since his position (in a well-publicized 1977 lawsuit) was that his ideas involving this show and others were stolen by Lear, CBS, Tandem, and others.

When you say, "She was the second star of Maude that got her own show," are you referring to Bea Arthur herself as Maude? If not, what other star of Maude got her own show?

It is just a matter of semantics.

I doubt Eric Monte would call the show a spin-off--since his position (in a well-publicized 1977 lawsuit) was that his ideas involving this show and others were stolen by Lear, CBS, Tandem, and others.

When you say, "She was the second star of Maude that got her own show," are you referring to Bea Arthur herself as Maude? If not, what other star of Maude got her own show?

I think they was trying second star of the AITF sitcom universe to get their own show but Good Times is not connected to AITF