Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I feel that Niles and Daphne's get-together was totally anticlimactic and very tacky. In earlier episodes, Daphne told Niles that she would never get involved with a man who was divorced/separated, yet now she's willing to be a hypocrite with a man who is actually MARRIED. And Niles is SCUM in my opinion for what he did to Mel. No matter what, Mel did not deserve to be dumped after three days of marriage. Niles pledged and vowed his love to her.... it obviously meant NOTHING to him since he dumped her the moment he got a whiff of Daphne.

Sickening.

IMO, Daphne should have remained a fantasy for Niles. In reality, Niles and Daphne had NOTHING in common.

Niles really was better off with Mel IMO.

BTW, after season 7, the show stunk IMO.

And Niles is SCUM in my opinion for what he did to Mel. No matter what, Mel did not deserve to be dumped after three days of marriage. Niles pledged and vowed his love to her.... it obviously meant NOTHING to him since he dumped her the moment he got a whiff of Daphne.

Sickening.


I'm not understanding here. Why should a man stay married to a woman he's not in love with? I get the feeling if it was the other way around you'd be supportive of Mel leaving Niles after three days of marriage. The heart wants what it wants, but I guess only women are allowed to follow their heart and men aren't.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I feel that Niles and Daphne's get-together was totally anticlimactic and very tacky. In earlier episodes, Daphne told Niles that she would never get involved with a man who was divorced/separated, yet now she's willing to be a hypocrite with a man who is actually MARRIED. And Niles is SCUM in my opinion for what he did to Mel. No matter what, Mel did not deserve to be dumped after three days of marriage. Niles pledged and vowed his love to her.... it obviously meant NOTHING to him since he dumped her the moment he got a whiff of Daphne. Sickening. IMO, Daphne should have remained a fantasy for Niles. In reality, Niles and Daphne had NOTHING in common. Niles really was better off with Mel IMO. BTW, after season 7, the show stunk IMO.

I think you're missing the point or it's been a while since you've seen Frasier. He married her because he was sure that he had lost Daphne forever. And Mel wasn't the nicest person either, even when they were dating. She was manipulative and conniving, most likely like Maris had been but even worse. I agree that his leaving her after they'd only been married a few days was wrong, but he probably regretted marrying her after it happened and when Daphne revealed that she was in love with him, he knew that he had to take a chance since he'd been in love with her for so long. I liked the whole series, even after Season 7 but I do wish they had shown more romance between Niles and Daphne, given how long it took them to get together.

I'm not understanding here. Why should a man stay married to a woman he's not in love with? I get the feeling if it was the other way around you'd be supportive of Mel leaving Niles after three days of marriage. The heart wants what it wants, but I guess only women are allowed to follow their heart and men aren't.
I think you are the one who is missing the point here. I said that BOTH Niles and Daphne were tacky. Daphne is a woman, right? :rolleyes:

He married her because he was sure that he had lost Daphne forever.
That's a really stupid reason to get married
And Mel wasn't the nicest person either, even when they were dating. She was manipulative and conniving, most likely like Maris had been but even worse.
Then he probably shouldn't have married her in the first place???

I think you are the one who is missing the point here. I said that BOTH Niles and Daphne were tacky. Daphne is a woman, right? :rolleyes:
Probably still not a good idea for a person to stay in a loveless marriage, whether man or woman. Though apparently Niles is scum because he didn't stay in a loveless marriage. Okay.

Probably still not a good idea for a person to stay in a loveless marriage, whether man or woman. Though apparently Niles is scum because he didn't stay in a loveless marriage. Okay.
He's scum because he chose Mel as second choice and then treated her like dirt when he saw the opportunity to be with Daphne. Whether Mel is a good person or not, Niles chose to marry her and vowed his undying love for her. He was a liar. And if it was a "loveless marriage" then Niles never should have married her in the first place. I guess it only took three days for the marriage to turn loveless.

He's scum because he chose Mel as second choice and then treated her like dirt when he saw the opportunity to be with Daphne. Whether Mel is a good person or not, Niles chose to marry her and vowed his undying love for her. He was a liar. And if it was a "loveless marriage" then Niles never should have married her in the first place. I guess it only took three days for the marriage to turn loveless.
Would you hold a woman up to the same standard? I doubt it.

I get the feeling a lot of people out there think divorce is a right only women are allowed to exercise without being condemned in the court of public opinion, and Waawie is okay with this double standard. When women leave, they're following their heart, when men leave, they're scum. I don't agree.

Would you hold a woman up to the same standard? I doubt it.
This is now the SECOND time that I said that Daphne was also tacky, and Daphne is a woman. :rolleyes:
It baffles me as to why you just assume that I would side with a lying, cheating woman. :confused:

This is now the SECOND time that I said that Daphne was also tacky, and Daphne is a woman. :rolleyes:
It baffles me as to why you just assume that I would side with a lying, cheating woman. :confused: Okay maybe you're not a hypocrite about this, but you seem a lot angrier at Niles than Daphne.

Okay maybe you're not a hypocrite about this, but you seem a lot angrier at Niles than Daphne.
That's your opinion.

right. I agree. I also thought daphne didn't fit in and that his 2nd wife was perfect.

So glad you agree.
Niles and Mel actually had a lot in common, where as Niles and Daphne really had nothing in common at all. Daphne should have remained just a fantasy. In my opinion, their union was so blah and I did not like them as a couple at all.

That's a really stupid reason to get married

Then he probably shouldn't have married her in the first place???
I agree on both counts but I hated Mel with a passion and I think they wrote her that way on purpose so that people would hate her. Niles had no idea that Daphne felt the same way about him otherwise I can guarantee you that he never woudl have married Mel.

Personally as much as I love Niles and Daphne I think it would have been interesting to pair him with someone new, or someone that he was friends with but never was attracted to romantically... Like Roz. They're polar opposites, even more so than Niles and Daphne but I think it could have worked.

Niles and Daphne both behaved very selfishly. They never sympathized with Donny or Mel.

I think Daphne felt badly about what she did to Donny. Right up to the wedding day she was determined to go through with the wedding even though she realized she did have feelings for Niles, she just thought those "feelings" weren't reason enough to call things off, and I think she was trying to convince herself that her feelings were exaggerated by her circumstance of finding out that Niles had had a crush on her for so long, it flattered her.

Niles was really the one who decided to settle for someone while he was hopelessly infatuated with Daphne. And Mel was completely in the dark about it, I don't you could blame her for going crazy when Niles asked for the divorce. But knowing how crazy Niles was about Daphne, how could you blame him for grabbing hold of Daphne as soon as he thought he had a chance with her? Ideally Niles should have had the courage to be alone if he couldn't be with the woman he loved so very much. But how could he be expected to have the courage to stand alone in life when he didn't even have the courage to ask this woman that he loved so much from afar for so long for a simple date?

IMO, Daphne behaved like a junior high school kid who falls for a guy only because she finds out that she likes her. :rolleyes:

Also, IMO, Donny dodged a bullet.

Another thing IMO, Mel may have not been a gracious lady, but she was vowed to by Niles. He vowed to love and cherish her for the rest of his life only to dump her days later. Mel had every right to be bitter.

I don't like Niles and Daphne as a couple. They had nothing in common and they were totally mismatched.

It's Niles not Nies BTW.

The first time I ever saw Jane Adams was when she played Marty the girl who came between Lauren and Alex on Family Ties.

I hated how coldly Alex treated his girlfriend of 2 years who was so in love with him. He really came off as a narcissist by blowing her off like that.

I think Niles was a real wuss to marry Mel and break her heart just because Daphne finally came around to feeling something for him. Made him look really selfish and like he was using her.

I am a fan of theirs in general but they both acted shabbily towards those two.

Daphne in particular had a really bitchy attitude like SHE was the wounded party in all of this.

They didn't need to have them screw those two over to find their way to each other. It seemed unnecessarily harsh. Also no need to make Mel the bad person either. Her gripes like Emily on Friends were completely justified given the situation.

Even when Diane left Frasier at the altar for Sam they didn't get together right away.

I do remember Frasier pulling an unloaded gun on Sam though. :cool:

I agree on both counts but I hated Mel with a passion and I think they wrote her that way on purpose so that people would hate her. Niles had no idea that Daphne felt the same way about him otherwise I can guarantee you that he never woudl have married Mel.

I dislike the Mel character to the extent that I find scenes she's in hard to watch. Just a despicable person who deserved much more of a comeuppance than she actually got (as in few people if anyone outside the Crane family and Daphne actually saw her for who she was).

Niles and Daphne were not well-written in Season 8, but that's understandable, since that's a weak season for the show, with the exception of a few episodes.

With the writers changing, and Jane Leeves' announcement about going on a maternity leave, the whole season had to be rewritten hastily to accommodate that.

But not in general, no. Niles and Daphne are fine, and actually, the drawn out pining period of Niles for Daphne makes the pairing more special.

As said in a previous thread, I think Niles and Daphne work as a couple, because first and foremost, they still remain full-fledged members of the Cranes' household.

They don't just move out, distancing themselves from the rest of the characters, and coo to themselves about being in love.
That would have been bad.

Whereas before, they came together, they were just friends, their romantic ties have simply brought them closer to one another, forging a relationship of mutual understanding.

The writers have treated their relationship with restraint and a good dose of fondness and integrity.

Daphne does change for the worse in later seasons.Whether it's Jane Leeves' fault or a character flaw uncovered by the pairing remains to be seen.
However, consider this:

1)Niles has always been the submissive part of any of his relationships.
He was manipulated by Mel, he was dominated by Maris, etc.

Is it any wonder that Daphne would start on a path of transformation into the domineering party?

It looks like the Crane brothers are bound to find themselves in such relationships, perhaps due to some inherent flaw in their characters.

2)Daphne no longer needed to play the unattainable fantasy woman for Niles, which is where a lot of her character's comical appeal lay.

the drawn out pining period of Niles for Daphne makes the pairing more special.

That's what makes it NOT special. The drawn out pining was totally one sided. Daphne NEVER had any romantic interest in Niles until she found out that he always loved her. There was nothing special about the union of Daphne and Niles who selfishly and cruelly screwed over two innocent people. IMO, both Daphne and Niles were gross.

I always thought both Niles and Daphne came across as horrible people for what they did to Mel and Donny. In fact most people think the show jumped the shark and the ratings went down because the chase was over between Niles and Daphne. I think the ratings sunk because the writers really made the two characters unlikable for what they did to Mel and Donny.