http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-170/videos/molly-on-being-let-go-from-facts-of-life

Molly Ringwald answers the question "on the set of the facts of life, which actress was the biggest mean girl"

http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-170/videos/molly-ringwald-pleads-the-fifth

Thanks for posting these. I've never heard Molly talking about The Facts of Life.

Whoa, thank you SO MUCH for sharing these links! I saw an article online from the mid-'80s where Molly mentioned her being let go from the show, but it's so great to hear her actually talk about it on camera. Very interesting...thanks again!

Nancy McKeon mentioned recently that Molly said she was replaced by NM- she gets a kick out of it. :)

I never knew she was on it.

Awesome find, 80schild! I haven't seen or heard her talk about her stint on TFOL since a 1986 interview, so this is a rare find indeed. Great to have these videos of her talking about her time on the show.

And she didn't like Mindy Cohn... juicy!!

And she didn't like Mindy Cohn... juicy!!

Well she didn't say she didn't like Mindy, she just named her as "the mean girl" (in Andy's words) because she said she found her intimidating. But yes, still, this is very juicy! And interesting since Molly was the professional and Mindy was the inexperienced newcomer. And good that she threw in there "But I've met her since then, and she's actually very nice" and remarked how all of them have grown since then.

Well she didn't say she didn't like Mindy, she just named her as "the mean girl" (in Andy's words) because she said she found her intimidating.

Well, Molly Ringwald thought Mindy Cohn was a "mean girl" and was intimidated by her. I wonder what was said between the two of them to make Molly feel intimidated? And did it happen during the first season, or when Molly was demoted to recurring character, and Mindy said something during the production of "The New Girl", which made Molly feel intimidated?


But yes, still, this is very juicy! And interesting since Molly was the professional and Mindy was the inexperienced newcomer.

Yes, that's odd. Why would Molly feel intimidated, when she was the one with the professional background, and Mindy had never acted a day in her life? Is it because Charlotte had insisted on having Mindy on the show? Charlotte's support might have caused any of the girls to feel a little intimidated: she was the star of the show. Without Charlotte, there simply was no show.

Or was it something else? The role of Natalie was hastily written in between "The Girls' School" (first aired May 1979) and "Rough Housing" (first aired August 1979). So "The Girls' School" was filmed sometime in spring 1979, with three older characters named Nancy, Sue Ann, and Blair, and four younger characters named Tootie, Jennifer, Laura and Molly. At some point, Jennifer and Laura were dumped. They didn't even have last names, and their first names were the same as their actresses, a sure sign that those characters hadn't been developed much. A tomboy, Cindy, was brought in to replace the cardboard "Jennifer" and "Laura" sketches.

Then before summer started, the producers and Charlotte visited Westlake, Charlotte insisted on bringing on Mindy, the character of Natalie was created, and soon there was a seventh girl, who required some of the lines.

We know there was line-counting in the first season. John Lawlor stated so in the E! documentary.

Was Molly intimidated in thinking that she, too, might be dropped in favor of this new girl? Ironically, if so, she was at least partially correct: if there had only been six girls in Season One, maybe Warren "I Can't Count" Littlefield would have been able to count to six, instead of believing there were "ten, twelve girls". ;) With only six girls, the execs might not have overreacted as much. And once Molly was shuffled off to "Dorm B", the things she would have done (photography, journalism) were reassigned to Tootie and Natalie, so in some ways, she was replaced by Mindy Cohn... only it took a full season for it to happen. By the end of the first season, "our group" (Mrs. G's words) is together: Blair, Tootie, Natalie and Sue Ann. As they hug, Molly isn't even in the room. I bet that was intimidating!


And good that she threw in there "But I've met her since then, and she's actually very nice" and remarked how all of them have grown since then.

Quite nice of her to offer an olive branch to Mindy, after decades of secret hatred and bitter recriminations. ;)

I wonder what was said between the two of them to make Molly feel intimidated? And did it happen during the first season, or when Molly was demoted to recurring character, and Mindy said something during the production of "The New Girl", which made Molly feel intimidated? Yes, that's odd. Why would Molly feel intimidated, when she was the one with the professional background, and Mindy had never acted a day in her life? Is it because Charlotte had insisted on having Mindy on the show? Charlotte's support might have caused any of the girls to feel a little intimidated: she was the star of the show. Without Charlotte, there simply was no show.

What I got from Molly's response was from her experience on season one. Her time on "The New Girl" was so brief and she didn't have any lines with Mindy, that I doubt she even had time to get "intimidated" by her then, haha.

Also, maybe nothing was said. Maybe it was just Mindy's presence and how she behaved. Mindy does have a large personality and can speak loudly if she wants to. Molly was a smaller girl, so maybe it was just size and presence. Or, perhaps, being the newcomer and with zero experience, maybe Mindy overexerted herself in trying to fit in on the set with her peers? Who knows, we'll have to ask Mindy. ;)


So "The Girls' School" was filmed sometime in spring 1979, with three older characters named Nancy, Sue Ann, and Blair, and four younger characters named Tootie, Jennifer, Laura and Molly. At some point, Jennifer and Laura were dumped. They didn't even have last names, and their first names were the same as their actresses, a sure sign that those characters hadn't been developed much. A tomboy, Cindy, was brought in to replace the cardboard "Jennifer" and "Laura" sketches.

Then before summer started, the producers and Charlotte visited Westlake, Charlotte insisted on bringing on Mindy, the character of Natalie was created, and soon there was a seventh girl, who required some of the lines.

This is a good point; perhaps Molly sensed this new girl "replaced" two girls, and was suddenly a force to be reckoned with? And we don't know what was said "backstage" among the girls. Maybe one day Molly came in for the beginning of season one and said "Where's Jennifer and Laura?" and one of the girls told her "They got rid of them. They hired a new girl to replace them both, and she's never done any acting before." If I were Molly that would certainly make me go "!"; of course this is all imagining, but who knows?



We know there was line-counting in the first season. John Lawlor stated so in the E! documentary.

Nope, Lisa Whelchel put that to rest in a documentary where she scoffingly says "There was no 'counting of the lines' or anything like that" with a "you sillies" smile on her face. Actually I'm kidding about your Lawlor statement not being true; I've always been amused at Lisa "claiming" she and the girls didn't count their lines. Of course Lisa wouldn't count her lines, she was the most-used actress on the show with largely the most lines and screen time of many episodes. She was "safe" and in the "star dressing room" so to speak. Mindy and Kim and Julie P. were very safe as well (or so, Julie P. thought!). But if I had been Molly, Julie A.H. or Felice, I would definitely have counted every line of mine when I got each new script.


By the end of the first season, "our group" (Mrs. G's words) is together: Blair, Tootie, Natalie and Sue Ann. As they hug, Molly isn't even in the room. I bet that was intimidating!

But that was only a little over half the group; three of the to-be-axed girls were not in those scenes, Cindy, Nancy, and Molly. Now, if only Molly had been absent from that scene, I would have been really worried and intimidated...like, "Hey! What about me??" lol. But I always have thought that was a very interesting moment there; it really is "the group", just plugging in Nancy M. for Julie P., lol.


Quite nice of her to offer an olive branch to Mindy, after decades of secret hatred and bitter recriminations. ;)

Good thing she "saved" herself at the end; she wouldn't want that intimidating Mindy on the war path. ;)

What I got from Molly's response was from her experience on season one. Her time on "The New Girl" was so brief and she didn't have any lines with Mindy, that I doubt she even had time to get "intimidated" by her then, haha.

Heh! Well, I think it's likely that whatever happened occurred during the first season, simply because, as you said, they didn't have much time to interact during season two.

However, I still wonder if it happened during season two. Molly's experience on season two was bad enough that she quit the show after just one "recurring" episode. It's likely that the small role and the fact that she would no longer be in the opening credits was enough to cause her to quit. But I wonder if there wasn't something more to it. A backstage tiff? Did Mindy get Molly's old dressing room? I guess we may never know, but it's fun to speculate, based on the tiny shreds we get in interviews. :lol:


Also, maybe nothing was said. Maybe it was just Mindy's presence and how she behaved. Mindy does have a large personality and can speak loudly if she wants to. Molly was a smaller girl, so maybe it was just size and presence. Or, perhaps, being the newcomer and with zero experience, maybe Mindy overexerted herself in trying to fit in on the set with her peers? Who knows, we'll have to ask Mindy. ;)

I hope someone does eventually ask her... Of course, it's almost unheard of for the Core Four girls to talk about the Lost Girls... so the chances seem slim.



This is a good point; perhaps Molly sensed this new girl "replaced" two girls, and was suddenly a force to be reckoned with? And we don't know what was said "backstage" among the girls. Maybe one day Molly came in for the beginning of season one and said "Where's Jennifer and Laura?" and one of the girls told her "They got rid of them. They hired a new girl to replace them both, and she's never done any acting before." If I were Molly that would certainly make me go "!"; of course this is all imagining, but who knows?

Well, these theories are all we have to go on in the Mindy Cohn/Molly Ringwald celebrity spat! ;)



Nope, Lisa Whelchel put that to rest in a documentary where she scoffingly says "There was no 'counting of the lines' or anything like that" with a "you sillies" smile on her face. Actually I'm kidding about your Lawlor statement not being true; I've always been amused at Lisa "claiming" she and the girls didn't count their lines. Of course Lisa wouldn't count her lines, she was the most-used actress on the show with largely the most lines and screen time of many episodes.

Exactly. Lisa never, ever had to count her lines. Not so for other actors on the show...


She was "safe" and in the "star dressing room" so to speak. Mindy and Kim and Julie P. were very safe as well (or so, Julie P. thought!). But if I had been Molly, Julie A.H. or Felice, I would definitely have counted every line of mine when I got each new script.

How could they not have kept track of the number of lines? Nancy was an important character in the backdoor pilot, and had a decent role in the first few episodes. But by the end of season one, Felice was lucky to get five lines per episode. And as you rightly pointed out a while back, Julie Anne is an important character in the first episode, but by "Adoption", late in the season, there's a long scene in the beginning where Julie Anne is in the classroom, but only get the brief line, "Adopted!?" while everyone else gets tons of lines.

In retrospect, it's clear to see the writers were already whittling down Felice and Julie Anne's parts by mid-season, to focus on a smaller group of girls, and Felice at least had started complaining to Al Burton and the other producers. She could see her character wasn't getting much airtime; likely, Julie Anne noticed as well. They had to have known they were no longer major parts of the show when they disappeared halfway through "Molly's Holiday". Molly never had a very large role outside of that episode, so it was probably a bigger shock to her when the cast was culled. Julie Pie was probably the most shocked to find out she had been cut: she had an important part throughout the first season, and her character never experienced reduced screen time. Then... BAM!


But that was only a little over half the group; three of the to-be-axed girls were not in those scenes, Cindy, Nancy, and Molly. Now, if only Molly had been absent from that scene, I would have been really worried and intimidated...like, "Hey! What about me??" lol. But I always have thought that was a very interesting moment there; it really is "the group", just plugging in Nancy M. for Julie P., lol.

Yes; as you correctly pointed out, that last scene sets up the next season, four girls and Mrs. G being "our group", according to Mrs. G., and earlier Nancy even being told she didn't get into "The Group" on camera! :lol:

One more thing about this Molly R interview: funny that she makes a big distinction between "getting fired" and "being let go": even the host rolls his eyes a little, as if to say, "really?" (And I say that as someone who is very pro-Lost Girls).

by "Adoption", late in the season, there's a long scene in the beginning where Julie Anne is in the classroom, but only get the brief line, "Adopted!?" while everyone else gets tons of lines.

You know what else? In what some could see as a "telling" detail, there is that nice long intimate scene with Natalie and her friends up in her room after she ran out of class, where they bond with her over her adoption---her friends, that is, except Cindy and Nancy. I hate that the writers left them out of this scene, because it makes Cindy and Nancy not look like good friends. All the rest of "the group" goes to Natalie's comfort, but not Nancy and Cindy.

Julie Pie was probably the most shocked to find out she had been cut: she had an important part throughout the first season, and her character never experienced reduced screen time. Then... BAM!

Yes! Even though Sue Ann is my least favorite of the Lost Girls, I feel really badly for Julie P. because her cut just came "out of nowhere" so it seemed to she and casual viewers. What a slap in the face!


Nancy even being told she didn't get into "The Group" on camera! :lol: LOL true! Ouch Felice! :lol: (poor girl...)


One more thing about this Molly R interview: funny that she makes a big distinction between "getting fired" and "being let go": even the host rolls his eyes a little, as if to say, "really?" (And I say that as someone who is very pro-Lost Girls).

Well, I actually defend Molly on this, lol (Molly and '80sSitcoms versus Andy Cohen and RetroGuy2000, haha). "Firing" to me means you are at fault; you did something to cause your employer to fire you and lose your job. "Let Go" is gentler and shows that you were not at fault, but your employer had reasons for cutting you (job outsourcing, budget cuts, company downsizing, etc.). So I do "get" Molly there. After all she is in the public eye, she wouldn't want the public thinking she did something to get herself fired from a show.

Oh, and on another point, Molly says that the show was supposed to be pared down to be Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and Molly. BUT, one of the "Facts" documentaries clearly says that Julie Ann Haddock was the last one of the girls to be let go. It specifically gives this order of axing: Felice, Julie P., Molly, and Julie A. H. So, who is telling the truth? Molly or the documentary narrator? lol...hmmmm...

We just had Charlotte's memoirs released. You know what I would love? A "Facts" book written by the "Facts" girls, detailing the history of the show from all of their viewpoints in personalized passages. Heart has a book like this with passages alternating between ones written by Ann Wilson and Nancy Wilson individually, chronicling their experience through the years. I would LOVE to see a "Facts" book like this with each of the girls "taking the reins" with passages of their own to detail the chronological history of the show.

http://i.imgur.com/B0f7Suw.gif (http://lunapic.com)

You know what else? In what some could see as a "telling" detail, there is that nice long intimate scene with Natalie and her friends up in her room after she ran out of class, where they bond with her over her adoption---her friends, that is, except Cindy and Nancy. I hate that the writers left them out of this scene, because it makes Cindy and Nancy not look like good friends. All the rest of "the group" goes to Natalie's comfort, but not Nancy and Cindy.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem quite in character of them to ignore a troubled classmate. Especially someone who was also a dorm-mate. (Then again, it's a little weird that they are apparently only taking classes with their dorm-mates, with girls of widely different ages all taking the same class... Wouldn't the older girls be in a higher level genealogy class? For that matter, what kind of school offers genealogy classes? I guess the same kind of school that serves only cinnamon buns with mystery meat... But I digress).

Back to your point, which is a good one: by leaving Nancy and Cindy out of that scene, it makes them seem like they didn't care about Natalie, which we know is not true. But I suspect by mid-season, the producers and network execs were doing anything they could to make it seem like there were fewer girls on the show.


Yes! Even though Sue Ann is my least favorite of the Lost Girls, I feel really badly for Julie P. because her cut just came "out of nowhere" so it seemed to she and casual viewers. What a slap in the face!

Sue Ann is my second-favorite of the Lost Girls (after Cindy); she was a good foil for Blair, and I suspect that if Brandon Tartikoff hadn't seen Nancy McKeon on a Hallmark commercial, she would have stayed on the show: the first season is very Blair/Sue Ann-heavy all the way through, and by the end of the season, they are best friends, despite their obviously different backgrounds. That dynamic was later used, to good effect, in the Blair/Jo friendship.


Well, I actually defend Molly on this, lol (Molly and '80sSitcoms versus Andy Cohen and RetroGuy2000, haha). "Firing" to me means you are at fault; you did something to cause your employer to fire you and lose your job. "Let Go" is gentler and shows that you were not at fault, but your employer had reasons for cutting you (job outsourcing, budget cuts, company downsizing, etc.). So I do "get" Molly there. After all she is in the public eye, she wouldn't want the public thinking she did something to get herself fired from a show.

Well, there are no-fault terminations, but you raise a good point.


Oh, and on another point, Molly says that the show was supposed to be pared down to be Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and Molly. BUT, one of the "Facts" documentaries clearly says that Julie Ann Haddock was the last one of the girls to be let go. It specifically gives this order of axing: Felice, Julie P., Molly, and Julie A. H. So, who is telling the truth? Molly or the documentary narrator? lol...hmmmm...

You are correct: there is a discrepancy in the firing order.

I suspect neither Julie Anne nor Molly were the last to be fired, although I suspect Molly was told otherwise.

First, as you say, one of the FOL documentaries ("The Facts of Life", aired on Biography channel) states outright that the Lost Girls were fired in this order: Felice, Julie Pie, Molly, and finally Julie Anne. But I suspect this is wrong for a number of reasons.

No one disputes that Felice was 'let go' first. But the girl who would remain (and then didn't remain) seems to be disputed in every source. The fantastic E! FOL documentary from 1999 interviewed many parties, and it stated (http://www.televisionhits.com/factsoflife/transcripts/etranscript1.html) that the girls were fired in this order: Felice, then the Julies, then Molly left to film The Tempest. Yet The Tempest wasn't released until August 1982, and filming would not have required Molly Ringwald to leave TFOL in order to film FOL episodes in November 1980 (and she herself now states that she hated being recurring, and only did one episode and then quit doing them). Molly herself admits that she was "let go".

I suspect that the producers of TFOL told Molly that she would still be on the show, and she only later learned that it would only be a recurring role, and it embarrassed her; as you know, in 1986, she stated she felt humiliated.

Geri Jewel has stated that the producers didn't level with her, either, during her stint on the show, and offered her only a small role on one episode (during season 5?), in order to get her to not accept the appearance. Geri felt like a semi-regular. A single appearance on the season felt like a demotion. Geri felt like it was a calculated move by the producers to get her to leave.

Watching the final episodes of season one leads me to believe that Julie Pie would have stayed on: there was only one Molly-centric episode, but tons of Sue Ann-heavy episodes. I suspect that The Facts of Life documentary that was shown on the Biography Channel simply confused Julie Anne Haddock and Julie Ann Piekarski (easy to do, considering their similar names). This isn't a knock on Julie Anne; I think she was the most talented of the Lost Girls.

I could be wrong. But nothing seems to support the assertion that Julie Anne or Molly were the last actresses 'let go': not newspaper articles from that era, not the way the final season one episodes were scripted (with Julie Anne and Felice barely visible), and the two documentaries conflict with each other and they also both conflict with what Molly herself says.


We just had Charlotte's memoirs released. You know what I would love? A "Facts" book written by the "Facts" girls, detailing the history of the show from all of their viewpoints in personalized passages. Heart has a book like this with passages alternating between ones written by Ann Wilson and Nancy Wilson individually, chronicling their experience through the years. I would LOVE to see a "Facts" book like this with each of the girls "taking the reins" with passages of their own to detail the chronological history of the show.

I would absolutely love this, too. It must now happen! :)

http://i.imgur.com/B0f7Suw.gif (http://lunapic.com)

I wonder if Molly Ringwald and Kim Fields talked to each other after FOL?

I wonder if Molly Ringwald and Kim Fields talked to each other after FOL?

Looking at the link to the interview with Molly posted here, I just found it absolutely hilarious that Ringwald would say "Bye Bye Tootie" to represent her departure from "Facts of Life" and her moving onward and upward. Now there's a pop culture catch phrase if I ever heard one: BYE BYE TOOTIE!

Wouldn't the older girls be in a higher level genealogy class? For that matter, what kind of school offers genealogy classes? I guess the same kind of school that serves only cinnamon buns with mystery meat... But I digress).

Was it actually genealogy class? Or was the class ever specified? I haven't seen the episode in a good while; if it was really a genealogy class (and not a different class with a "genealogy project"), then yes, that is quite odd, lol. I think genealogy classes would be great, though.


Well, there are no-fault terminations, but you raise a good point.

Yeah, there's just that stigma with being "fired"; I think Molly wanted to straighten that call-in viewer out and keep her image "trouble-free", lol.


No one disputes that Felice was 'let go' first. But the girl who would remain (and then didn't remain) seems to be disputed in every source.

Isn't it fascinating? One of life's great mysteries...we may never know who was Jack the Ripper, we may never know who killed Lizzie Borden's parents, and we may never know who was the last girl let go from The Facts of Life. ;)


I suspect that the producers of TFOL told Molly that she would still be on the show, and she only later learned that it would only be a recurring role, and it embarrassed her; as you know, in 1986, she stated she felt humiliated.

Oo, that's interesting...a possibility, and I want it to be true, because it would make sense and put everything to rest, lol. You have good points/ideas about the whole mystery around the LLG: the "Last Lost Girl", lol.

Yes, Geri Jewell's one-episode season was season 5. It's where she tries to handle an event all herself and ends up making a mess of things.


Watching the final episodes of season one leads me to believe that Julie Pie would have stayed on: there was only one Molly-centric episode, but tons of Sue Ann-heavy episodes.

Ah, yes, but, the Molly-centric episode was not aired until nearly the end of season one; perhaps to set her up as a bigger character, with Blair, Natalie, and Tootie? Now, that's playing devil's advocate, but who knows? Without a clear answer on who was the last let go, anything is possible.

So we will most likely never be entirely clear in this matter unless we see documentation, but the big picture is we have this beloved show on DVD and can watch it again and again, no matter what orders the lost girls became lost. :)

Was it actually genealogy class? Or was the class ever specified? I haven't seen the episode in a good while; if it was really a genealogy class (and not a different class with a "genealogy project"), then yes, that is quite odd, lol. I think genealogy classes would be great, though.


The class wasn't specified. They were doing a genealogy project called "Project Roots". But why are girls ages 12-16 lumped together in the same classroom? Maybe here, but also in the sex ed class?! Surely they didn't think Blair and Tootie should be receiving the same level of information? If so, I suspect that was the real reason Mr. Ramsey decided to pull Tootie out of Eastland.



Isn't it fascinating? One of life's great mysteries...we may never know who was Jack the Ripper, we may never know who killed Lizzie Borden's parents, and we may never know who was the last girl let go from The Facts of Life. ;)

Okay, that made me laugh out loud. I still wonder, though. And wonder why the discrepancy.


Ah, yes, but, the Molly-centric episode was not aired until nearly the end of season one; perhaps to set her up as a bigger character, with Blair, Natalie, and Tootie? Now, that's playing devil's advocate, but who knows? Without a clear answer on who was the last let go, anything is possible.

Yep.


So we will most likely never be entirely clear in this matter unless we see documentation, but the big picture is we have this beloved show on DVD and can watch it again and again, no matter what orders the lost girls became lost. :)

Well, on the DVDs, it's something else entirely: Molly disappears first, followed by Cindy and Sue Ann a year later, and finally Nancy two months after them. In the end, although Nancy was the first girl not to make the cut, ironically, she was the last girl to disappear. :crazy:

And here (http://www.ew.com/microsites/longform/facts/) is John Lawlor's opinion of being "let go" from TFOL:

"All I know is I got fired from that show—and that’s the word. They can say anything—they can say “let go,” they can say “downsized”—but it’s really, “You’re fired. You’re gone.” I remember my last show I had, like, 45 seconds of screen time, and I went, “Uh-oh, this is not good.”"

But why are girls ages 12-16 lumped together in the same classroom? Maybe here, but also in the sex ed class?! Surely they didn't think Blair and Tootie should be receiving the same level of information? If so, I suspect that was the real reason Mr. Ramsey decided to pull Tootie out of Eastland.

lol, well Eastland is supposed to have been a school with such a rich, dignified, sophisticated history, so I still believe "Buffalo Ramsey" on his stated reasons for pulling Tootie out, as opposed to mixed-age classes. I think the mixed-age classes was just an awkward way to work classes into the episodes, by having the girls taking the same classes together, and the writers probably thought "we'll have to write these classroom scenes, let's hope the viewers don't notice the various age levels" lol.


And here is John Lawlor's opinion of being "let go" from TFOL:

"All I know is I got fired from that show—and that’s the word. They can say anything—they can say “let go,” they can say “downsized”—but it’s really, “You’re fired. You’re gone.” I remember my last show I had, like, 45 seconds of screen time, and I went, “Uh-oh, this is not good.”"

Well I feel sorry for him, because it sounds like it really stung that he was dropped from the show, and that he really thought he was an important part of the series and wanted to stay on. Maybe I've been in office work environments too long but I still wouldn't say "fired"; in his case, I would say "cut" if he feels it was too soft to say "let go" or "downsized". Of course I wasn't in the room when it happened, but oh well...

I just looked at the production dates order, and his last show was "Dope" (coincidentally the last show of season one in airing order as well, though most are moved around - click here for the thread on FOL production dates (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=337573)). Yes, when you think of Mr. Bradley in "Dope" you really only think of his brief commenting on allowing a stereo in the common room, and that last scene and his inspection of the girls' property.

And I remember seeing that article last year, that is an AMAZING article---one of the best FOL ones ever done!

I think the mixed-age classes was just an awkward way to work classes into the episodes, by having the girls taking the same classes together, and the writers probably thought "we'll have to write these classroom scenes, let's hope the viewers don't notice the various age levels" lol.

Well, I went to some very small schools (kindergarten was 5 students; junior high was 22 students). We did have some classes with other grades, but it was only one grade below or one grade above, never five grades mixed together. And as near as I can tell, that is the age range: Tootie was supposed to be playing 12 at the time, and Blair was supposed to be 16, I think. Though 15 would work a lot better for how long Blair remained at Eastland.



I just looked at the production dates order, and his last show was "Dope" (coincidentally the last show of season one in airing order as well, though most are moved around - click here for the thread on FOL production dates (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=337573)). Yes, when you think of Mr. Bradley in "Dope" you really only think of his brief commenting on allowing a stereo in the common room, and that last scene and his inspection of the girls' property.

That production date/air date list is quite useful. Thanks so much for linking that, '80s. I believe those dates, with one exception: episode 1-08 "The Facts of Love" has both a production date of 3/11/1980 and an air date of 3/11/1980. That can't possibly be right. As a former video editor, I can tell you that's not possible. And no network worth anything would schedule and attempt to pull off shooting an episode twice, editing the footage together, and attempting to broadcast that same episode the same day. That would be crazy.


And I remember seeing that article last year, that is an AMAZING article---one of the best FOL ones ever done!

It really is an awesome article. Entertainment Weekly is to be commended for compiling that article, which is very thorough (covering all eras of the show pretty much equally), gets the facts right, and which got interviews from lots of different cast and crew members. I was delighted to see so much material written by John Lawlor and Julie Piekarski (and equally, at the other end, by the actors who played Andy and Pippa). That's thorough!

Between that long article with Julie's and John's extensive comments, Molly's brief revelations in the video clips, and comments from both Lisa and Nancy about the Lost Girls, I feel like I hit the jackpot as a first season fan this year. I just wish Molly's interview had been in a format I could download for editing into a new video project: The Facts of Life: The Lost Girls, Part Two!

Well, I went to some very small schools (kindergarten was 5 students; junior high was 22 students). We did have some classes with other grades, but it was only one grade below or one grade above, never five grades mixed together.

Wow, you did go to small schools! :eek: We had some mixed grades at my elementary school, but like you, it was two grades in the same classroom, never more (3rd and 4th, 4th and 5th). But our kindergarten and elementary classes were fairly normal size---5 students?? Wow...


And as near as I can tell, that is the age range: Tootie was supposed to be playing 12 at the time, and Blair was supposed to be 16, I think. Though 15 would work a lot better for how long Blair remained at Eastland.

Yeah, Blair is in that gray area of 15/16. I say she is 15, because in "The Facts of Love" Mrs. Garrett says to Mr. Bradley (when they are arguing over sex education and age), "They can't drive until they're 16!". I take that to mean all her girls are under 16, with Blair and Nancy 15, and Sue Ann 14/15.


That production date/air date list is quite useful. Thanks so much for linking that, '80s.

Yes, I am VERY grateful to MiracleHand for posting that. The next time I screen the series I am going to watch it in production order. :) I am a thorough purist, so I love that I have this guide to watch the episodes in order as they were created and executed, not shuffled around for broadcasting. I have never done this with a show before, and love the thought of getting to do this with "Facts".


I believe those dates, with one exception: episode 1-08 "The Facts of Love" has both a production date of 3/11/1980 and an air date of 3/11/1980. That can't possibly be right. As a former video editor, I can tell you that's not possible. And no network worth anything would schedule and attempt to pull off shooting an episode twice, editing the footage together, and attempting to broadcast that same episode the same day. That would be crazy.

Crazy to the MAX lol. But I think I see the issue. I believe it was an oversight on MiracleHand's part, accidentally duplicating the production date instead of copying the correct air date. I looked up the episode guide on Wikipedia, and "The Facts of Love" aired 4/4, not 3/11. I can understand a typo like that when you are plugging in two columns of dates.

Note of interest: I never noticed this before, but "Overachieving" and "Emily Dickinson" aired only two days apart---! This is shown on the episode guide as well, 3-12 and 3-14, respectively. Either there was some odd circumstance or some odd typo is out there for resources.


It really is an awesome article.

Yes, the only down beat is the stinger at the end with Mindy and Kim's comments. Even if they don't feel in a " 'Facts' place" at the moment or feel there is nothing new to add, I wish they had still taken part. This is the most in-depth article on the show I have ever seen, and they were so important to the show. Since it is the most explorative and inclusive article on the show I just really wish they had taken part; I'm afraid to some readers it will come off making them look bad in their eyes, like they felt "too good" to bother to be interviewed for this or something like that; or, like "if you really did care, then why didn't you answer a few questions?"


I just wish Molly's interview had been in a format I could download for editing into a new video project: The Facts of Life: The Lost Girls, Part Two!

"Where there is an Eastland will, there is a way..." ;)

Wow, you did go to small schools! :eek: We had some mixed grades at my elementary school, but like you, it was two grades in the same classroom, never more (3rd and 4th, 4th and 5th). But our kindergarten and elementary classes were fairly normal size---5 students?? Wow...

Sounds like your school was small, too. In my junior high class, there were only two girls.


Yeah, Blair is in that gray area of 15/16. I say she is 15, because in "The Facts of Love" Mrs. Garrett says to Mr. Bradley (when they are arguing over sex education and age), "They can't drive until they're 16!". I take that to mean all her girls are under 16, with Blair and Nancy 15, and Sue Ann 14/15.

Good observation. And having Blair be 15 years old would make more sense, considering she would then graduate at 18. Still, what are a 15-year-old Blair and a 12-year-old Tootie (and Molly) doing in the same class?


Yes, I am VERY grateful to MiracleHand for posting that. The next time I screen the series I am going to watch it in production order. :) I am a thorough purist, so I love that I have this guide to watch the episodes in order as they were created and executed, not shuffled around for broadcasting. I have never done this with a show before, and love the thought of getting to do this with "Facts".

Ah, seeing the show as it was meant to be, before network execs tinkered with the broadcast order. Nice!


Crazy to the MAX lol. But I think I see the issue. I believe it was an oversight on MiracleHand's part, accidentally duplicating the production date instead of copying the correct air date. I looked up the episode guide on Wikipedia, and "The Facts of Love" aired 4/4, not 3/11. I can understand a typo like that when you are plugging in two columns of dates.

That makes sense.

]\
Note of interest: I never noticed this before, but "Overachieving" and "Emily Dickinson" aired only two days apart---! This is shown on the episode guide as well, 3-12 and 3-14, respectively. Either there was some odd circumstance or some odd typo is out there for resources.

Weird.


Yes, the only down beat is the stinger at the end with Mindy and Kim's comments. Even if they don't feel in a " 'Facts' place" at the moment or feel there is nothing new to add, I wish they had still taken part. This is the most in-depth article on the show I have ever seen, and they were so important to the show. Since it is the most explorative and inclusive article on the show I just really wish they had taken part; I'm afraid to some readers it will come off making them look bad in their eyes, like they felt "too good" to bother to be interviewed for this or something like that; or, like "if you really did care, then why didn't you answer a few questions?"


Well, Kim spent years distancing herself from the show. I suppose it became a drag to be known as Tootie. And it's really only been the last few years that I've felt she's re-embracing her role on the show, so I don't mind that she doesn't take part in everything. I'm grateful she grants the interviews she grants.

I really wonder what important engagements Mindy had going on, to prevent her from participating? Surely her career (playing Velma on Scooby Doo) wouldn't be harmed by talking about FOL?

And here (http://www.ew.com/microsites/longform/facts/) is John Lawlor's opinion of being "let go" from TFOL:

"All I know is I got fired from that show—and that’s the word. They can say anything—they can say “let go,” they can say “downsized”—but it’s really, “You’re fired. You’re gone.” I remember my last show I had, like, 45 seconds of screen time, and I went, “Uh-oh, this is not good.”"

I think they decided they didn't need a headmaster character, because with the exception of a few episodes, we didn't really see a headmaster.

Yep. And yet, despite that, Eastland went through headmasters like crazy: Mr. Crocker, Mr. Bradley, Mr. Harris, Mr. Parker...

They definitely could have had more stability at that school.

Sounds like your school was small, too. In my junior high class, there were only two girls.

Oh wow...were there many fights between the boys over just two girls? lol


Ah, seeing the show as it was meant to be, before network execs tinkered with the broadcast order. Nice!

That brings up a good point, who makes the decision of what order to shuffle around the episodes for broadcast order? I know Carl Reiner moved "My Blonde-Haired Brunette" of The Dick Van Dyke Show to be the sophomore episode broadcast, because he wanted to show off Mary Tyler Moore's comedic talent early on when he discovered what she could do. But it does seem interesting to move around FOL so much...


Well, Kim spent years distancing herself from the show. I suppose it became a drag to be known as Tootie. And it's really only been the last few years that I've felt she's re-embracing her role on the show, so I don't mind that she doesn't take part in everything. I'm grateful she grants the interviews she grants.

I didn't realize Kim had, I just knew that Nancy McKeon had. So if I thought of any FOL girl distancing herself or trying to "break away" from her character, it's Nancy. It has been so nice to see her take part in promos and interviews for the show on DVD in the last several years.


I really wonder what important engagements Mindy had going on, to prevent her from participating? Surely her career (playing Velma on Scooby Doo) wouldn't be harmed by talking about FOL?

lol...well it sounds like from what she said she just could not (as of that writing) think of anything new to say about the show. So what? Why not just repeat some things you have said before? It's still relevant, it still matters, and it includes yourself and Natalie in the article. Plus, the show ran for nine seasons; I'm sure she could ponder over the series and think about some new things she's never revealed before (such as, she was the "mean girl" on the season 1 set, haha ;) ).


I think they decided they didn't need a headmaster character, because with the exception of a few episodes, we didn't really see a headmaster.

I disagree, we did need a headmaster; or, at least a teacher. It was so nice to have another adult for Mrs. Garrett to play off of and have camaraderie and adult conversation with; in season one Mr. Bradley, and briefly Miss Mahoney (I can't believe they didn't ask John Lawlor to come back to reprise Mr. Bradley after season one, even in just "on-call appearances". It would have been wonderful continuity, and a shout-out to the season one fans). I dearly treasure "the cafeteria years" so close to my heart, but it does have that something missing: a fellow sounding board and interactive adult partner for Mrs. Garrett.

That brings up a good point, who makes the decision of what order to shuffle around the episodes for broadcast order? I know Carl Reiner moved "My Blonde-Haired Brunette" of The Dick Van Dyke Show to be the sophomore episode broadcast, because he wanted to show off Mary Tyler Moore's comedic talent early on when he discovered what she could do. But it does seem interesting to move around FOL so much...

I suppose the decision-makers were the programmers at the network: Warren "ten, twelve girls" Littlefield, Garth Ancier, etc.


I didn't realize Kim had, I just knew that Nancy McKeon had. So if I thought of any FOL girl distancing herself or trying to "break away" from her character, it's Nancy. It has been so nice to see her take part in promos and interviews for the show on DVD in the last several years.

It really has been great to see Nancy just a bit proud of what she helped create.

Kim distanced herself for many years; she didn't want to be remembered as Tootie on an old TV show. For years, in interviews, she would only speak about her current projects. Even years later, she didn't like to be called Tootie, and insisted for the TV movie that her character be called Dorothy.



lol...well it sounds like from what she said she just could not (as of that writing) think of anything new to say about the show. So what? Why not just repeat some things you have said before? It's still relevant, it still matters, and it includes yourself and Natalie in the article. Plus, the show ran for nine seasons; I'm sure she could ponder over the series and think about some new things she's never revealed before (such as, she was the "mean girl" on the season 1 set, haha ;) ).

This cracked me up! I'm sure she never thought of herself that way at all, and I wonder what really happened between Mindy and Molly, to make her think Mindy "wasn't very nice".


I disagree, we did need a headmaster; or, at least a teacher. It was so nice to have another adult for Mrs. Garrett to play off of and have camaraderie and adult conversation with; in season one Mr. Bradley, and briefly Miss Mahoney (I can't believe they didn't ask John Lawlor to come back to reprise Mr. Bradley after season one, even in just "on-call appearances". It would have been wonderful continuity, and a shout-out to the season one fans). I dearly treasure "the cafeteria years" so close to my heart, but it does have that something missing: a fellow sounding board and interactive adult partner for Mrs. Garrett.

I heartily agree: having a headmaster made for interesting dialogues between adults. And with actual faculty, it felt more like a real school.

And if we "didn't need a headmaster", why did Eastland have so many? Mr. Crocker, Mr. Bradley, Mr. Harris, Mr. Parker...

As for the producers asking John Lawlor back, I suspect they did, and he turned them down, just as Molly Ringwald stopped doing appearances. It would have felt like a demotion, and at that time, John Lawlor was doing TV and film roles. There was no reason to accept a bit part on FOL.

The reason I suspect that the producers would have asked him back for guest appearances is because they asked the other actors who were cut to come back for guest appearances, to help preserve continuity. It was up to those individuals to accept or decline: Felice, Julie, and Julie Anne accepted, Molly initially accepted, and then declined, and, I suspect, John Lawlor declined as well.

As for the producers asking John Lawlor back, I suspect they did, and he turned them down, just as Molly Ringwald stopped doing appearances. It would have felt like a demotion, and at that time, John Lawlor was doing TV and film roles. There was no reason to accept a bit part on FOL.


Oo, interesting theory; only, from my personal experience there was a reason for him to accept a bit part on FOL...because he ended up doing hardly anything else. The only thing I'm aware of (without looking him up online) that he did was a guest appearance bit part on Mr. Belvedere for one episode.

Oo, interesting theory; only, from my personal experience there was a reason for him to accept a bit part on FOL...because he ended up doing hardly anything else. The only thing I'm aware of (without looking him up online) that he did was a guest appearance bit part on Mr. Belvedere for one episode.

Nah, his acting resume is extensive, with steady acting gigs on TV and film before and after FOL from 1975 to 2014. IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0492552/?ref_=tt_ov_st). Just two months after the second season of FOL started, he had a TV movie out, he did three guest spots, then did a National Lampoon movie, all by 1982.

I'm sure he did do more, I just meant from the viewpoint of a young "Facts"-watcher it seemed there would be a reason for him to accept Mr. Bradley again (if it were indeed offered to him again) since most of his work past that "got by" us, lol.

I'm moving this from the Limericks thread to here so we don't keep derailing that one with discussion, lol:

But that's what Molly herself says (http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-170/videos/molly-ringwald-pleads-the-fifth) in the interview! That she was "intimidated", and that "at the time" she thought that "Mindy Cohn wasn't very nice"...they bring in a new chubby girl who is comic relief, and who consistently gets lines every week, and is suddenly the new best friend of one of the main characters.

Sorry, I wasn't clearer on that; what I meant was I didn't think Molly felt intimidated at Mindy having been hand-picked by Charlotte per se. And I just watched it again myself, and I feel that helps my argument, lol. ;) She does not say anything about being intimidated by Mindy because of Charlotte. She answers the question with just the impression that "at the time, I thought that Mindy Cohn wasn't very nice". That makes me think it was simply a difference in personalities, or at least a perception of one seen from Molly's part. When she says "intimidated" I interpret that as an effect of Mindy's "not being very nice", and not having to do with being chosen by Charlotte. Maybe Mindy just came on too strong for her. Or, maybe Molly was indeed threatened and that was how it manifested itself in her thoughts. We'll have to get her in an interrogation room to really get to the unequivocal truth, lol.

It was probably much the same for Molly, saddled with the "feminist" character, which had few opportunities for scripts. How many Ham Radio and Feminist episodes could the show have, anyway?

Oh I think they could have a lot of feminist episodes (indeed, much of the feminism in later episodes was taken up by Natalie). Indeed, in my re-written episode guide they did have several for Molly, lol.

Sorry, I wasn't clearer on that; what I meant was I didn't think Molly felt intimidated at Mindy having been hand-picked by Charlotte per se. And I just watched it again myself, and I feel that helps my argument, lol. ;) She does not say anything about being intimidated by Mindy because of Charlotte. She answers the question with just the impression that "at the time, I thought that Mindy Cohn wasn't very nice". That makes me think it was simply a difference in personalities, or at least a perception of one seen from Molly's part. When she says "intimidated" I interpret that as an effect of Mindy's "not being very nice", and not having to do with being chosen by Charlotte. Maybe Mindy just came on too strong for her. Or, maybe Molly was indeed threatened and that was how it manifested itself in her thoughts. We'll have to get her in an interrogation room to really get to the unequivocal truth, lol.

Well, we'd need to get them both in interrogation rooms, to get both sides of the story, and find out, once and for all, why Molly and Mindy hated each other. :lol:

But it's clear Molly was intimidated by Mindy, and I personally believe it was because Mindy was added in later, reducing everyone else's line count, including poor Molly, whose role was already very small.


Oh I think they could have a lot of feminist episodes (indeed, much of the feminism in later episodes was taken up by Natalie). Indeed, in my re-written episode guide they did have several for Molly, lol.

Looking at your most awesome FOL re-imagined episode guide (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=324047), I don't see much feminism. Just "Molly is under pressure to reveal her source for a controversial article on a schoolmate's secret abortion she has written for the school newspaper." and "Molly asks a boy to the Sadie Hawkins dance but is turned down. She decides to boycott and spend the evening in with Sue Ann and Jo, but they end up going on dates, leaving Molly the odd woman out." Two episodes out of nine seasons.

No, the feminist character just didn't do much to help keep Molly on the show. Anything else --tomboy, country bumpkin, girl-on-the-phone -- would have had more script opportunities. Well, okay, maybe not girl-on-the-phone.

But it's clear Molly was intimidated by Mindy, and I personally believe it was because Mindy was added in later, reducing everyone else's line count, including poor Molly, whose role was already very small.

Well, we'll just agree to disagree, lol. To me, it's clear first and foremost Mindy was "not very nice" to Molly, whether intentionally or not, or even whether perceived correctly or not. She says "intimidated" kind of off-the-cuff while looking for other reasons to evidence her claim that she was "the mean girl". And Mindy had no effect on the line count, because the backdoor pilot had Jennifer and Laura, which who were "traded in" for Cindy and Natalie (thank goodness, on both counts!).



Looking at your most awesome FOL re-imagined episode guide (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=324047), I don't see much feminism. Just "Molly is under pressure to reveal her source for a controversial article on a schoolmate's secret abortion she has written for the school newspaper." and "Molly asks a boy to the Sadie Hawkins dance but is turned down. She decides to boycott and spend the evening in with Sue Ann and Jo, but they end up going on dates, leaving Molly the odd woman out." Two episodes out of nine seasons.

No, the feminist character just didn't do much to help keep Molly on the show. Anything else --tomboy, country bumpkin, girl-on-the-phone -- would have had more script opportunities. Well, okay, maybe not girl-on-the-phone.
Again, we'll disagree, lol (but appreciate the compliment!).

Well you could also look at feminist aspects in "Dieting", "For the Asking", "Smile" (reverse feminism, lol), "Me and Eleanor", "The Candidate", "The Wedding Day", "Before the Fall", "Peekskill Law", and arguably "Front Page" and "Read No Evil" (since Molly is doing a "boy's" job in the former, and acting aggressive and "boy-like" in the latter), and definitely "Write and Wrong" and "The Greek Connection". You can interpret a girl acting aggressively or assertively or in a "boy's realm" as feminist or "acting like a boy", i.e. shaking things up. In season one feminism was a large part of Molly's character and helped keep her individual, as opposed to, say, Nancy, whose individuality I think was least delineated (had she not had Roger on the phone, the poor girl would have become 1970s wallpaper).

I hate disagreeing with people I like, but sometimes you can't help it and just have to agree to disagree, lol.

Well, we'll just agree to disagree, lol. To me, it's clear first and foremost Mindy was "not very nice" to Molly, whether intentionally or not, or even whether perceived correctly or not. She says "intimidated" kind of off-the-cuff while looking for other reasons to evidence her claim that she was "the mean girl". And Mindy had no effect on the line count, because the backdoor pilot had Jennifer and Laura, which who were "traded in" for Cindy and Natalie (thank goodness, on both counts!).

I believe Natalie had more lines than Jennifer and Laura combined. If that's the case, it certainly would have cut into Molly's line count. It certainly didn't affect the amount of lines Blair or Tootie had.

In looking at the 1979-1980 advertising for the show, it's clear most of it focused on Blair and Tootie. The producers had found their break-out stars, and now the "new girl", Natalie, was Tootie's best friend. Molly and others had been edged out by a girl who wasn't even an actress. That had to be intimidating!

Now, there may have actually been incidents, but we don't know what they were, at all.


Again, we'll disagree, lol (but appreciate the compliment!).

Well you could also look at feminist aspects in "Dieting", "For the Asking", "Smile" (reverse feminism, lol), "Me and Eleanor", "The Candidate", "The Wedding Day", "Before the Fall", "Peekskill Law", and arguably "Front Page" and "Read No Evil" (since Molly is doing a "boy's" job in the former, and acting aggressive and "boy-like" in the latter), and definitely "Write and Wrong" and "The Greek Connection". You can interpret a girl acting aggressively or assertively or in a "boy's realm" as feminist or "acting like a boy", i.e. shaking things up. In season one feminism was a large part of Molly's character and helped keep her individual, as opposed to, say, Nancy, whose individuality I think was least delineated (had she not had Roger on the phone, the poor girl would have become 1970s wallpaper).

I hate disagreeing with people I like, but sometimes you can't help it and just have to agree to disagree, lol.

There are no feminist aspects in "Front Page", silly: the episode revolves around Jo doing a news article. This isn't a "boy's job", or else why would they be teaching journalism at Eastland? In "Front Page", there is no feminist angle.

You highlight "Dieting" as an episode which has an aspect of feminism. I believe Molly's line about 'no one telling her how to look' is that aspect, and that proves my point: it's a single, throwaway line. If Molly's line had been cut there, no one would have noticed. It wasn't central or key to the episode. Thus, Molly didn't have a lot to do in that episode. The feminist angle had actually held her back.

Since Molly didn't have a lot to do in most episodes, she didn't really get a chance to win anyone over. "Molly's Holiday", the only episode where Molly had more than 15 lines, had nothing to do with feminism, and came across as more natural, with that bit dropped.

With new female head writers being brought in, I suspect Molly had much hope that they would give a boost to her feminist character. But everyone must have known Blair and Tootie would never be shown the door. And no-one was going to show the door to the white best friend of a black character on a Norman Lear show; the comedy just wrote itself. When Brandon Tartikoff insisted on bringing in Nancy McKeon, Molly was toast.

I believe Natalie had more lines than Jennifer and Laura combined. If that's the case, it certainly would have cut into Molly's line count. It certainly didn't affect the amount of lines Blair or Tootie had.

I don't know, Natalie didn't say much in "Rough Housing"; we would actually have to count the lines, lol ;)


There are no feminist aspects in "Front Page", silly: the episode revolves around Jo doing a news article. This isn't a "boy's job", or else why would they be teaching journalism at Eastland? In "Front Page", there is no feminist angle.

But Molly was the editor. I know it's a girls' school so of course a girl had to be editor, lol, but that just shows Molly's determination and assertiveness to prepare herself for the possibility of a "man's" career (as seen by a lot of people [especially boys] back then, not by me, lol).

You highlight "Dieting" as an episode which has an aspect of feminism. I believe Molly's line about 'no one telling her how to look' is that aspect, and that proves my point: it's a single, throwaway line. If Molly's line had been cut there, no one would have noticed. It wasn't central or key to the episode. Thus, Molly didn't have a lot to do in that episode. The feminist angle had actually held her back.

I meant my re-write of the episode. But her line's not a throw-away line to me; it's a good character line, and I actually like it.


When Brandon Tartikoff insisted on bringing in Nancy McKeon, Molly was toast.

That one girl wiped out 4 and replaced 3!---"Hurricane Jo"!

I don't know, Natalie didn't say much in "Rough Housing"; we would actually have to count the lines, lol ;)

I was actually talking about her season average, which is far above what Jennifer and Laura had in the backdoor pilot. Laura had one line; Jennifer had six. Molly actually had a fairly beefy role in the pilot, with her role on a par with Tootie's. But once FOL began taping, Molly's small role never developed. The focus was mostly on Blair and Tootie. The producers went through actors and actresses very quickly, with "The Crock", Laura and Jennifer gone after the pilot, then Miss Mahoney, Mr. Bradley, Cindy and Natalie brought in, and then Miss Mahoney gone after just four episodes. The actors feared for their parts, and rightly so.


But Molly was the editor. I know it's a girls' school so of course a girl had to be editor, lol, but that just shows Molly's determination and assertiveness to prepare herself for the possibility of a "man's" career (as seen by a lot of people [especially boys] back then, not by me, lol).

I wouldn't in any way call "Front Page" a feminist episode. Certainly, there were feminist episodes, but they were scattered, mixed in with episodes about racism, income inequality, dieting, drugs, etc. Having Molly be a feminist limited her role to what would have been a larger role for at most a couple of episodes per season.


I meant my re-write of the episode. But her line's not a throw-away line to me; it's a good character line, and I actually like it.

It's a good line, but if it ended up on the cutting room floor, would you have ever noticed it? In other words, it wasn't integral to the story. Sue Ann, Blair, and Mrs. G are integral to that story... possibly Natalie and Mr. Bradley as well, but not Molly.

I was actually talking about her season average, which is far above what Jennifer and Laura had in the backdoor pilot. Laura had one line; Jennifer had six. Molly actually had a fairly beefy role in the pilot, with her role on a par with Tootie's. But once FOL began taping, Molly's small role never developed. The focus was mostly on Blair and Tootie.

And Sue Ann, who became a major player as the season went on. (I know you've noticed how Mrs. Garrett calls she and 4 girls in season 1's final scene, "our group"---herself, Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and---Sue Ann) And they always made sure to have funny lines for droll Natalie in every season 1 show as a "highlighted supporting player"; being the jokester of the group, she never had to worry about not being written for (whether she counted lines or not, lol).


Having Molly be a feminist limited her role to what would have been a larger role for at most a couple of episodes per season.
I tend to disagree, as feminism was such a big deal back then. I bet Linda and Margie would have written more scripts about it.


It's a good line, but if it ended up on the cutting room floor, would you have ever noticed it? In other words, it wasn't integral to the story. Sue Ann, Blair, and Mrs. G are integral to that story... possibly Natalie and Mr. Bradley as well, but not Molly.

I didn't say she was, but she was the only girl to speak out against it, which is what I liked. It was nice to see a different perspective on that issue, even if only one line, lol.

And Sue Ann, who became a major player as the season went on. (I know you've noticed how Mrs. Garrett calls she and 4 girls in season 1's final scene, "our group"---herself, Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and---Sue Ann) And they always made sure to have funny lines for droll Natalie in every season 1 show as a "highlighted supporting player"; being the jokester of the group, she never had to worry about not being written for (whether she counted lines or not, lol).

Oh, I agree: after the first four episodes of season one, it seems as though "the group" was cemented: it would be Blair, Tootie, Natalie and Sue Ann, and we even see this referred to on-camera at the end of the season, with Molly, Nancy, and Cindy not even in the room as Mrs. G hugs the members of "the group".

But things were different in the backdoor pilot. Nancy having to leave the school was the central theme, along with Mrs. G's introduction to Eastlake. "The Group" tries to come up with a plan. At that time, "The Group" consisted of Sue Ann, Tootie, Molly and Jennifer, although even at that time, Jennifer wasn't allowed to sit with the rest of "The Group". :lol:

Molly's role was quite big in that backdoor pilot. There's no mention of feminism, just candy bars, zits, and finding a way to help Nancy. It's telling that the only episodes to really feature Molly are episodes where her feminist principles are never mentioned.


I tend to disagree, as feminism was such a big deal back then. I bet Linda and Margie would have written more scripts about it.

But they didn't: they were the head writers, so they could have written more feminist episodes. Instead, they focused on race relations, disabilities, income inequality, shoplifting, teenage marriage, suicide, gossiping, make-up, etc.

I do think, as you say, of all writers Linda and Margie should have been the ones to bring some feminist themes into the show. After all, they came from One Day at a Time. Surprisingly, though, they focused instead on bringing in Jo.


I didn't say she was, but she was the only girl to speak out against it, which is what I liked. It was nice to see a different perspective on that issue, even if only one line, lol.

Oh, I agree it's nice to see that perspective. But feminism isn't central to the episode, if Molly's single line could have been edited out.

Molly's role was quite big in that backdoor pilot.
I don't remember getting that impression. I would have to watch it again and do the "counting of the lines", lol.


But they didn't: they were the head writers, so they could have written more feminist episodes. Instead, they focused on race relations, disabilities, income inequality, shoplifting, teenage marriage, suicide, gossiping, make-up, etc.
I meant for Molly, if she had stayed one of the "fab four".


they focused instead on bringing in Jo.

Well Brandon handed them Jo, so they had to develop her tough tomboy character. #MissingCindy :-(

I don't remember getting that impression. I would have to watch it again and do the "counting of the lines", lol.

"The counting of the lines"... I like how you say that just as Lisa did. Not sure if you have DS on DVD, but in case you do not: The Girls' School (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x536z0v).


Well Brandon handed them Jo, so they had to develop her tough tomboy character. #MissingCindy :-(

#MissingCindy indeed! :(

"The counting of the lines"... I like how you say that just as Lisa did. Not sure if you have DS on DVD, but in case you do not: The Girls' School (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x536z0v).

Yup, I have the first two seasons (and I grew up with DS as well, so needed to have a bit of that among my DVDs), so that with those and all 9 seasons of FOL (of which season 9 is irrelevant for this point), I have The Complete Edna Garrett Collection™ :)

(well, except for her DS season 6 cameo guest star appearance at Mr. Drummond's wedding, which I saw in reruns a couple of years ago)

Yup, I have the first two seasons (and I grew up with DS as well, so needed to have a bit of that among my DVDs), so that with those and all 9 seasons of FOL (of which season 9 is irrelevant for this point), I have The Complete Edna Garrett Collection™ :)

(well, except for her DS season 6 cameo guest star appearance at Mr. Drummond's wedding, which I saw in reruns a couple of years ago)

Well, I should have known you'd have all the DVDs!

Back to MR and being "let go" (fired)... I really wonder how Eve Brandstein felt about losing so many of the actors/actresses she had cast in the show. First Laura and Jennifer and The Crock, then Miss Mahoney, Mr. Bradley, Nancy, Cindy, Molly and Sue Ann. Then, presumably, Howard, Roy, Kelly, George...

It would have been interesting to find out who the 4th girl that was the last to be fired based on solid evidence. It's interesting that Molly was featured in every TV Guide I seen for Season 1B along with Blair, Tootie, and Natalie along being the 4 girls named in the Casey Kasum narrated promo. I also saw a post on Facebook from 2013 where a guy that worked for NBC Sports said he stopped by to see a taping of the Facts of Life episode in some later season and one of the producers said that Molly was originally going to be the 4th girl kept. That backs up what Molly stated a few years later.

The TV Guide documentary on the Facts of Life said that they decided which of the teen girls they were going to keep first. Then after they decided to keep Blair, Tootie, and Natalie, then they focused on which of the two preteens they were going to keep. We know that Kim thought she was going to be let go as she stated many times and some of the producers and network executives didn't want to keep Kim because she was still so small.

It would have been interesting to find out who the 4th girl that was the last to be fired based on solid evidence. It's interesting that Molly was featured in every TV Guide I seen for Season 1B along with Blair, Tootie, and Natalie along being the 4 girls named in the Casey Kasum narrated promo. I also saw a post on Facebook from 2013 where a guy that worked for NBC Sports said he stopped by to see a taping of the Facts of Life episode in some later season and one of the producers said that Molly was originally going to be the 4th girl kept. That backs up what Molly stated a few years later.

The TV Guide documentary on the Facts of Life said that they decided which of the teen girls they were going to keep first. Then after they decided to keep Blair, Tootie, and Natalie, then they focused on which of the two preteens they were going to keep. We know that Kim thought she was going to be let go as she stated many times and some of the producers and network executives didn't want to keep Kim because she was still so small.

I think we'll never know the full truth behind who was going to be "fourth girl" before Nancy McKeon came along and stole someone's thunder. There is evidence for each Lost Girl, but every year, there's a new piece of evidence which completely contradicts that last piece of evidence.

Because there have been so many contradicting stories, I'm only comfortable saying that it's clear they planned to keep four girls, and were incredibly unclear about what exactly would happen until Nancy McKeon was signed; then the writing was on the wall, and Felice got the call in her basement.

I think we'll never know the full truth behind who was going to be "fourth girl" before Nancy McKeon came along and stole someone's thunder. There is evidence for each Lost Girl, but every year, there's a new piece of evidence which completely contradicts that last piece of evidence.

Because there have been so many contradicting stories, I'm only comfortable saying that it's clear they planned to keep four girls, and were incredibly unclear about what exactly would happen until Nancy McKeon was signed; then the writing was on the wall, and Felice got the call in her basement.

Felice should have heeded Mrs. Garrett's warning not to go down into the basement.

Felice should have heeded Mrs. Garrett's warning not to go down into the basement.

:lol:

That Eastland basement was deadly in 1980!

There is evidence for each Lost Girl, but every year, there's a new piece of evidence which completely contradicts that last piece of evidence.

Well, not Felice, because we know she was the first one to be booted out. It's most likely that Julie Pie was next because we never heard about her being the last one (that I'm aware of), but there are documentaries stating that both Julie Anne and Molly were last.

Well, not Felice, because we know she was the first one to be booted out. It's most likely that Julie Pie was next because we never heard about her being the last one (that I'm aware of), but there are documentaries stating that both Julie Anne and Molly were last.

From what the TV Guide documentary said, the decision of who to keep among the teens was made first. Next came the decision of who to keep among the 2 preteens. Not everyone wanted to keep Kim. They thought she was too short. Kim said many times that she thought she would be fired.